Dude wtf does turntime even mean? Yes it's how long a plane takes to rotate 360° but what speed and altitude? Why doesn't it tell you something like acceleration or maxspeed at sea level? Will I ever stop asking these questions?
I always thought the turn time test was done at the minimum maneuvering speed which would explain why some heavier machines have terrible times on the stat card even though in practice you can outturn many aircraft, P-47N vs most Bf109s for an example (even when ignoring flaps the 47 will simply out turn a 109 above 300 kph IAS), it's best to just test this stuff yourself.
Supposedly it's "the fastest time to complete a full circle without losing altitude or speed". So basically it's your turn time on the deck when you're about to stall out 🤷♂️ damn near useless information tbh
It should just show you the turn time at different IAS. Like a proper graph with a curve so we can see the data and compare much easier, they can give us a window displaying every ammo types animation and effect, but they haven't figured this out for actual plane performance.
They really should add in cards next characteristics - max sustained turn rate and max instantaneous turn rate (with 50% of fuel, 2/4 missiles, at 0m, 1000m, 3000m, 5000m and 10000m) as well as recovery rates, bleed rates, acceleration in straight flight on the deck, max “sustainable” AoA (for instance the Su-27 can do over 90deg AoA but only for very short period of time and then will pull no more than 34deg of AoA) and a lot more other stuff such as fuel consumption l/s on the deck with AB on, more info for radars such as update rates and more info about missiles. It becomes annoying that I’m spending more time in test flights to figure out all that stuff than in actual lobbies. At least WTRTI is “legal” and it helps a lot for both testing and fighting
I remember there was something about the Mustang when Britain got thier hands on it. I believe they switch the engine or upgraded it for specifications.
That was when they got the a36. They changed the guns out for the hispanos and got rid of the nose mounted guns. So Britain ordered a36s but with hispanos and no nose guns. America designated this version the p51.
Makes sense given air to air missiles are similar. Their stat cards don't tell the whole story, and is the reason so many people get smacked despite flaring and well, an attempt at notching
Ok here's the stat cards that definitely show something completely STUPID, the german p47 is worse than the italian p47 in every single stat on the stat card, by a huge margin, yet they're at the same br for sim. Not only that, but the german one has WAY worse visibility than the italian one because the italian one has the bubble canopy.
I love the Italian P-47, recently discovered how great it is as stall trapping planes with a very slow and wide spiral climb; just hold it slightly up and to the side and anybody trying to follow you with equal energy just falls out of the sky after maybe 30 seconds, then you still have enough energy to actually loop over and dive on em. It's kind of insane tbh, it's even better than the American ones, it's a D-30 at 3.7 while even the US D-28 is at 4.3.
@@Webly101 yep its insane, should be minimum 4.7 with where some other p47 are imo, its also super easy to fly and physically impossible to flatspin in
I noticed this the other day when I took out my j2m5. I kept getting out ran, outclimbed, and out turned by the brit one. Took it for a test flight after and was pleasantly surprised how well it handled.
It almost looks like the British one has the upgraded tail fin like some of the .50 cal mustangs get (F-6c) over the tech tree one for america the way you described the rudder. Maybe try flying those against each other and see if it is about the same level of difference and bam gaijin just snuck in a nonexistent tail extension for the flight model
I just tested it for myself and yeah, the British Stang has no wing stalls when pulling max aoa like the American one does. I wonder how many other premium copied planes are like this.
I think it would be great if war thunder showed instead of turn time in seconds, it showed turn time in degrees per second, where it showed maximum sustained turn rate, and maximum instantaneous turn rate in degrees per second.
The centre of mass seems to be different. The brit one needs some significant up trim to fly straight, whereas the US one does not. The brit one needs nearly as much up trim as the p51-c
Okay, so the difference is insignificant. Got it. I mean, the thing is that the P-51 (USAAF) is an evaluation model. It was never used or set up for anything. It was given to Evaluation pilots to give their opinion to the USAAF. The RAF Mustang Mk.1A was used by the RAF, and it is probably been set up for use on the front lines, and thus having been slightly tuned by the RAF. But I don't play Sim.
I know I will be a little biased to the cannonstang but the p51c is so inconsistent with the damage that its only advantage is its ability run and even then you get out dived by most other things at that br. The cannonstang can kill almost instantly so you won't need to run.
love the video very interesting hard to come by a quality sim youtuber ps: you should try out the ki-43-III ko in the Chinese tree it has the upgraded engine from the ki-43-III otsu but with the 50cals instead of 20s
great work mate... would love to fly and learn with you guys... have joined you discord ... will try to join in if I can (Aussie east coast time - GMT +10) Your vids are exceptional... thank you for sharing.
Maybe i'm wrong, but it sure felt like he was talking some mad shit throughout the fight in Round 1 and 2. It's hard to say whether one is better then the other when your testing it with a dogfight. I think if you test the vertical pull and horizontal pull with factors being equal (unlimited fuel for example) we can probably get a better understanding from an objective POV so as to remove any ambiguity in the assessment. I did however enjoy the fight. :)
fyi, mustang FM's crap with anything more than combat flaps. The nose-down effect from them negates the lift benefit from them excessively to the point basically all of early mustangs are actually just straight up impossible to do a 3 pointer landing with zero throttle and takeoff or landing flaps. Take-off does have its usess occasionally but generally speaking you won't have the AoA authority to make use of it.
Not at all my friend. You can pull off keyboard but I would recommend at least a cheap stick. No VR ever needed. If you can get off the runway in one piece your already halfway to flying sim. The biggest thing is to always be aware of how easy it is to stall.
an other test you can run then is Yak-3 vs Yak-3 from the Russian tech tree and the French premium they are supposedly the exact same plane . . . we'll see if Russian bias exists or not
I’m sorry, I like most of your content but this video is a waste of a half hour of my life, the stat cards while misleading in what their information represents, are at least consistent. If 2 vehicles have 1. The same name 2. The same stats and 3. Performance as similar as these 2 plane’s is in your tests then you can assume gaijin copy pasted the model from one to the other. They have no reason to put any extra work Modeling it unless it really had any difference - which it doesn’t.
Yeah but it does. The armor is where the weight difference is, which we only learned after the video. The planes feel different because they are different, it is in fact modeled, and yet the stat cards show no difference
This is more interesting to watch than top tier jets
Look ma! I'm on the television!
I've flown the a36 since this session and it seems they copied the a36 but just gave it hispanos and better engine
I took the A36 with the gunpods out into sim and wiped some lobbies 😂
@@sterlin_merlin1632 i have no idea why they give you that many 50s at 2.7 😂
@@good_drink2 because it has god awful flight performance, I can throw a brick and have it be better
Dude wtf does turntime even mean? Yes it's how long a plane takes to rotate 360° but what speed and altitude? Why doesn't it tell you something like acceleration or maxspeed at sea level? Will I ever stop asking these questions?
My guess is that the listed turn time is an average of test results in differing conditions.
I always thought the turn time test was done at the minimum maneuvering speed which would explain why some heavier machines have terrible times on the stat card even though in practice you can outturn many aircraft, P-47N vs most Bf109s for an example (even when ignoring flaps the 47 will simply out turn a 109 above 300 kph IAS), it's best to just test this stuff yourself.
Supposedly it's "the fastest time to complete a full circle without losing altitude or speed". So basically it's your turn time on the deck when you're about to stall out 🤷♂️ damn near useless information tbh
It should just show you the turn time at different IAS. Like a proper graph with a curve so we can see the data and compare much easier, they can give us a window displaying every ammo types animation and effect, but they haven't figured this out for actual plane performance.
They really should add in cards next characteristics - max sustained turn rate and max instantaneous turn rate (with 50% of fuel, 2/4 missiles, at 0m, 1000m, 3000m, 5000m and 10000m) as well as recovery rates, bleed rates, acceleration in straight flight on the deck, max “sustainable” AoA (for instance the Su-27 can do over 90deg AoA but only for very short period of time and then will pull no more than 34deg of AoA) and a lot more other stuff such as fuel consumption l/s on the deck with AB on, more info for radars such as update rates and more info about missiles.
It becomes annoying that I’m spending more time in test flights to figure out all that stuff than in actual lobbies. At least WTRTI is “legal” and it helps a lot for both testing and fighting
They dont lie, they just dont tell you everything, its their sustained turn time without dropping speed at their effective altitude
I remember there was something about the Mustang when Britain got thier hands on it. I believe they switch the engine or upgraded it for specifications.
That was when they got the a36. They changed the guns out for the hispanos and got rid of the nose mounted guns. So Britain ordered a36s but with hispanos and no nose guns. America designated this version the p51.
Had a great time testing my beautiful American cannonstang against the Brit Stang. American Stang is still my bread and butter brother.
Where is the extra weight in the US mustang? The pilot seat xD
Makes sense given air to air missiles are similar. Their stat cards don't tell the whole story, and is the reason so many people get smacked despite flaring and well, an attempt at notching
Ok here's the stat cards that definitely show something completely STUPID, the german p47 is worse than the italian p47 in every single stat on the stat card, by a huge margin, yet they're at the same br for sim. Not only that, but the german one has WAY worse visibility than the italian one because the italian one has the bubble canopy.
I love the Italian P-47, recently discovered how great it is as stall trapping planes with a very slow and wide spiral climb; just hold it slightly up and to the side and anybody trying to follow you with equal energy just falls out of the sky after maybe 30 seconds, then you still have enough energy to actually loop over and dive on em. It's kind of insane tbh, it's even better than the American ones, it's a D-30 at 3.7 while even the US D-28 is at 4.3.
@@Webly101 yep its insane, should be minimum 4.7 with where some other p47 are imo, its also super easy to fly and physically impossible to flatspin in
Gotta love the Bomber Crew Background. Great Game.
I noticed this the other day when I took out my j2m5. I kept getting out ran, outclimbed, and out turned by the brit one. Took it for a test flight after and was pleasantly surprised how well it handled.
the armour plates on the amercian one are heavyier than the british one
It almost looks like the British one has the upgraded tail fin like some of the .50 cal mustangs get (F-6c) over the tech tree one for america the way you described the rudder. Maybe try flying those against each other and see if it is about the same level of difference and bam gaijin just snuck in a nonexistent tail extension for the flight model
I just tested it for myself and yeah, the British Stang has no wing stalls when pulling max aoa like the American one does. I wonder how many other premium copied planes are like this.
I think it would be great if war thunder showed instead of turn time in seconds, it showed turn time in degrees per second, where it showed maximum sustained turn rate, and maximum instantaneous turn rate in degrees per second.
100%
nice video, very well paced and structured!!
The centre of mass seems to be different. The brit one needs some significant up trim to fly straight, whereas the US one does not.
The brit one needs nearly as much up trim as the p51-c
Okay, so the difference is insignificant. Got it.
I mean, the thing is that the P-51 (USAAF) is an evaluation model. It was never used or set up for anything. It was given to Evaluation pilots to give their opinion to the USAAF.
The RAF Mustang Mk.1A was used by the RAF, and it is probably been set up for use on the front lines, and thus having been slightly tuned by the RAF.
But I don't play Sim.
bomber crew background cheeky
I think the plane wanting to over-roll/tip stall to one side has to do with a combination of sideslip and prop torque IIRC
The P51C is the best P51 for it's BR. The cannonstang doesn't have an engine, so any maneuvers just kill all energy.
I know I will be a little biased to the cannonstang but the p51c is so inconsistent with the damage that its only advantage is its ability run and even then you get out dived by most other things at that br. The cannonstang can kill almost instantly so you won't need to run.
The British mk1a is slightly better because its wings act like a bf109’s wings
love the video very interesting hard to come by a quality sim youtuber
ps: you should try out the ki-43-III ko in the Chinese tree it has the upgraded engine from the ki-43-III otsu but with the 50cals instead of 20s
My shitkicker was the F4-F Wildcat. Heavy, slow-ish, but it takes a beating and can get guns on target.
Is bro casually holding a 30mm glass beer size round?
man!!! i missed a mustang duel?!
great work mate... would love to fly and learn with you guys... have joined you discord ... will try to join in if I can (Aussie east coast time - GMT +10) Your vids are exceptional... thank you for sharing.
take a look at the amercican mustangs armour plates compared to the british one
Ki 44 40mm guns video when 😩
Great video, maybe make the face cam a little smaller next time :)
Do the Frog Yak-3 vs the Borscht Yak-3 next!
you should do more fly till I die videos
That’s the plan in the coming months. It will be a few weeks but they should all be coming in a row very soon!
q why the Bomber Crew backround have you played the game ?!
you haven't played the game on this channel
No I haven’t played it on the channel but I have played the whole game
Good game right@@trainingdays
Maybe i'm wrong, but it sure felt like he was talking some mad shit throughout the fight in Round 1 and 2. It's hard to say whether one is better then the other when your testing it with a dogfight. I think if you test the vertical pull and horizontal pull with factors being equal (unlimited fuel for example) we can probably get a better understanding from an objective POV so as to remove any ambiguity in the assessment.
I did however enjoy the fight. :)
only thing british "people" are good at :P
fyi, mustang FM's crap with anything more than combat flaps. The nose-down effect from them negates the lift benefit from them excessively to the point basically all of early mustangs are actually just straight up impossible to do a 3 pointer landing with zero throttle and takeoff or landing flaps. Take-off does have its usess occasionally but generally speaking you won't have the AoA authority to make use of it.
*ghasp* is this foreshadowing bomber crew content???????
Hey i want to start plaining sim but do you need vr and fligt stikk?
You can pretty easily play on an xbox controller
Not at all my friend. You can pull off keyboard but I would recommend at least a cheap stick. No VR ever needed. If you can get off the runway in one piece your already halfway to flying sim.
The biggest thing is to always be aware of how easy it is to stall.
If you want to use keyboard, use the Relative control setup and customise it because the default mode sucks
You can play on ps controller, xbox controller, or hotas. and you definitely don't necessarily "need" a vr to play. those are just for extra fun tbh.
Ok ty
an other test you can run then is Yak-3 vs Yak-3 from the Russian tech tree and the French premium
they are supposedly the exact same plane . . .
we'll see if Russian bias exists or not
Flaps in a Mustang though 🤦♂️
Game files??
british bias got me
Epic
Warthunder a hudge pay to win, fed by parents that refuse to educate their kids other than buying them some premiums.
American pilot is fatter.
As he flops around in the cockpit it causes overroll
I’m sorry, I like most of your content but this video is a waste of a half hour of my life, the stat cards while misleading in what their information represents, are at least consistent. If 2 vehicles have 1. The same name 2. The same stats and 3. Performance as similar as these 2 plane’s is in your tests then you can assume gaijin copy pasted the model from one to the other. They have no reason to put any extra work Modeling it unless it really had any difference - which it doesn’t.
Yeah but it does. The armor is where the weight difference is, which we only learned after the video. The planes feel different because they are different, it is in fact modeled, and yet the stat cards show no difference
My shitkicker was the F4-F Wildcat. Heavy, slow-ish, but it takes a beating and can get guns on target.