Writing contracts on the back of checks is one of the most shadiest and grimiest things I’ve ever heard of. Only a soulless and vindictive company would do that.
@@maxs-lz4pn You are right ! I live in Canada and from what I learned, here it is not legal ; formally, only what is written on the front must be considered. Also, to tie a forced contract to a salary check is obviously a vice of form.
I went to high school with Bill Finger’s granddaughter. She talked a lot about how her grandfather didn’t get credit for his work on Batman. I was very happy for her and her family when Bill Finger finally got the credit he deserved.
No, we would ahve plenty of characters if, INSTEAD of making these broad monetizations of crapastic "elseworlds" reboot stories, audiences would SIMPLY not be lemmings and watch new IP as happily as old one. But you idiots jsut ahve to be fans of "official" Superman and keep bringing that money to "official" coffers of giant corporations. Because USA is like that, a soviet style marketing juggernaut, not a place of free thinkers. You have to be stupid or insane to just default to this "it's the company screwing over creators" error code, every single time, when you've JUST been demonstrated how it's a ridiculous string of PATCHWORK bylaws added onto each other. To make "copyright" even REMOTELY even work, because you "created" an idea and claim to own it. When all the value is in the lemmings following it BLINDLY. You legislated COPYING, bread and butter of EDUCATION, to be by default NOT a right. It goes much deeper than that, now you have universities failing to TEACH people because technologosies and information isn't in their RIGHT to copy and pass along. Simply shameless.
Stories of men like Bill Finger or Joe Shuster who had a miserable life despite the great things they did, while other people became huge celebrities for absurd reasons, remind me a lot this sad quote from Nite Owl (Hollis Mason) about the very different fates of Doctor Manhattan and Scout: "Some dope forgets his Watch and becomes a God on Earth...Some poor kid saves New York City and gets to suffer and die alone and forgotten...What kind of sick world is this?"
Every time I'm reminded of the harsh reality, I tell myself that "if you help someone, you help the world". When life gets me down, I remind myself that there are people who love me, and that I should continue to live. For myself, and those around me.
Agreed. This world is sick. We need to Stop procreating and produce so many baby and let em live in this sick world and let em become one of this sick people toooo! Enough is enough !
Jack Kirby never saw an ounce of his creations successes. That’s the part that gets me. The fact that people think of Stan whenever they think of who created most of Marvel’s recognizable icons. Jack THE KING Kirby.
Same for Steve Ditko. The dude literally made everything about Spider-Man that is Spider-Man, and everyone always just talks about Stan that just had a name suggestion for Steve. It’s disgusting.
@@christianbjorck816 stan lee took WAY TOO much credit at marvel, yeah sure he maybe the one doing the dialog, but holy shit that man does not deserve all the praise he gets.
@@yourfatboy5359 Damn right. Funniest story I have heard is when he tried to take credit for Captain America, when Jack Kirby and Joe Simon created it and Stan was like 12 years old and didn’t even work in the comics industry 🤣
@@christianbjorck816 exactly! He just loves taking credit. he did not co-create anything jack kirby made, the king himself created all of his creations by himself, dc's new gods proves this, did stan lee also co-create that? Hell no. It's sad seeing how stan lee is praised by everyone but jack, steve, and many other writers and artists are only praised by die hard comic fans.
*Fun fact:* Bill Finger was honored in a short comic called "The Sacrifice", released in commemoration of Batman's 75th anniversary. In said story, the Phantom Stranger gives the dark knight the opportunity to live in a reality in which he did not lose his parents, showing us an alternate future where Bruce never became Batman and formed a happy family with Natalya. Unfortunately, in this new reality, Gotham is dominated by crime, Ra's al Ghul gradually conquers the World, James Gordon is a quadraplegic and Richard Grayson is sentenced to the death row for killing Tony Zucco. Due to that, Bruce tearfully decides in a really heartbreaking scene to return to his original reality, not without saying a final goodbye to his family. As Batman watches again how Joe Chill murders his parents, the story ends with a text that says "In memory of Bill Finger"
@@GringoXalapeno I dunno, but the story described is clearly inspired by Detective 500's lead story, "To Kill a Legend," thought by many to be the greatest Batman story of all-time, right down to the role of the Phantom Stranger.
Finger definitely honored Batman's name. Like the caped crusader, he tried to improve the world with his actions the best he could, despite knowing that he would not become a well-known person. People like him show that, despite the fact that superheroes do not exist, their mentality is not fictional at all
This is why McFarlane and his six friends created image comics. I didn’t know why back in the 90’s when I was a kid but this is definitely the reason. Creators been screwed out of their creations for so long. Especially in the comics industry.
Dont forget about a number of boxers,recording artists,& some inventers.thats why you need to patient,copyright,& know how to legally claim tge rights to your works.
This is one of the most important issues in the comic industry, and not nearly enough people talk or care about it. I hope this video gets more views than the trailers for the movies made about the characters that were stolen from these creators.
Not just the comics industry. This problem is a issue in almost every industry. Entertainment being the biggest imo. This is why I refuse to pitch my ideas to companies.
@@Vampiric_Kai You are very smart. Companies love to reject ideas and tell people they suck, but when they do accept ideas, they do their best to steal them from the creators.
@@Vampiric_Kai Agreed and very well said. This is why, if people can, they're much better off going into business for themselves and becoming entrepreneurs. Its one of the main reasons why I intend to go into business for myself as an entrepreneur, make my own comics( and hopefully, my own toys) and be my own boss and own my own creations. Why bust your ass working for someone else when they don't care about you, respect you and appreciate you and why be working on and putting all of your blood, sweat and tears into something that you won't have any ownership over? The cautionary tales of not only creators in the comic book industry but in almost every other industry really informed me for how I wanted to make a career for myself in comics and in business.
@@KadenKenz Agreed, unfortunately I feel like Nerdsync's content has moved away a bit from the stuff I found interesting, so this is a nice return to that
Man, your script, your direct way and honest way to the camera, your editing, your research...I hope this channel gets recognition step by step, keep doing this, please.
“The finest line of poetry ever uttered in the history of this whole damn country was said by Canada Bill Jones in 1853, in Baton Rouge, while he was being robbed blind in a crooked game of faro. George Devol, who was, like Canada Bill, not a man who was averse to fleecing the odd sucker, drew Bill aside and asked him if he couldn't see that the game was crooked. And Canada Bill sighed, and shrugged his shoulders, and said, 'I know. But it's the only game in town.' And he went back to the game.” - Neil Gaiman, American Gods.
Funny how , many these characters, who were created to be paragons of virtue, would probably hang there heads in Shame at the way the industry that spawned them has treated their creators.
This is insane. Imagine if Akira Toriyama, Rumiko Takahashi or Kentaro Miura were all forced away from their creations. It's unthinkable, yet here in the west...
When a good show is canceled and the creator of the show wants to continue it, but the network won't give the rights back. I hate that when it happens.
Yeah, I fucking hate it too. I understand you completely. I want certain show which was very special to me to have, at least, its last and third season, but certain company cancelled the show making this show to end in the second season. Thinking deeply about the reasons of its cancellation made me so sad that it was actually the cause of my first depression stage in my entire life... and that stage wasn't gonna be the last one, but hey. It's really sad.
Growing up in Miami in the 80's and going to comics shows as a kid, I heard a lot of these kinds of stories from artists and writers that retired down here. The stories I've heard from artists are wild- particularly from artists that never got their original comic art back.
I'm surprised you didn't talk about Bill Mantlo, created Rocket the Racoon yet still didn't recieve any royalities to help with his health when the guardians 1 came out.
Jim Starlin as well, he was on record as saying he got more money for Batman v Superman using a minor DC character he created then he ever got from any MCU films using Marvel characters he created.
The fate of American Comic Authors were so sad and tragic. I was one of the fan of Superman when I was a child, but I don't even know who create him to begin with. It is different to Japanese Manga Authors. Like Akira Toriyama, Kishimoto Masashi, etc. They may over work and tired, but at least, they still have ownership for their own characters.
Successful manga artists become some of the richest person in Japan, respected and worshiped by the entire society and the world. Compare that to what’s happened to American comic book creators.
Copyright law has always been kind of broken because Congress and the courts are going to lean toward what companies want rather than creators 😉 💰 💰 💰💰💰💰
I find the problem even bigger, due to the "Wolverine Precedence": what if Writer X makes the character but Writer Y makes that character really interesting. Who's the "real dad" then? And sometimes there can be decades of many writers who improved the character. Stan Lee unquestionably did a lot for Daredevil, but Miller made Modern Daredevil. When you think about it, this incentivizes writers to make tons and tons of "OCs", hoping at least one of them succeeds or the next writer makes them popular. Killing Joke might be the most iconic Batman story ever, but it didn't introduce anyone important, so Alan Moore couldn't profit from it.
I thought this because superman isn’t really interesting. I think his weaknesses weren’t always around and he couldn’t always fly but people added stories and abilities that made him better. He feels like a child’s favourite toy granted power beyond belief. I think the original Batman is also similar but he was more interesting at the start due to being a detective.
Yeah, it is not an easy solution. One way to go is to make a author profit from a media that directly reference them. Take Daredevil and the announced new "born again" series. Frank Miller should get receive a dip from it. But this is very easily solved by the company, putting a original name and saying which comics inspired the project, making a difficult case for the author. (Much like James Gunn naming "superman legacy" and that he got inspired by Morrison "all-star"
I once sent a submission to Malibu comics. Not only did they not take my concepts. They schooled me on copyright law. I never did anything with those characters, but I learned a Valuable Lesson from them. A producer at fox tried to steal a concept from me. I outsmarted Him.
I met Dan Decarlo at a mini convention in Seattle back in 2000. He told me how he was fucked out of money when the Josie and the Pussycats movie came out. (People that did Sabrina did right by him. He liked the show but list interest when she went to college) He advised me to self publish.
Damn this just disgusting, bankrupting the creators who help make your billion dollar company. Are they that greedy that they won’t just give them a small little reward. Like your already making billions, slide them $30k when a big project comes out and I’m sure the artists will be grateful and move on with their lives
sure but they did not crate anyhing interesting after leaving marvel, the machine for advertising does a lot of heavy lifting for the artists but yes they should out of respect be rewarded eerytime a successfull project with their creation makes a ton of money, as an actor in such movie i would drive myself to the house of the creator and hand him the cash out of my own pocket
It makes me so mad. I wish the creators had gone to the homes of those who cheated then and fired shots at their house. And kept on harassing and intimidated them. This type of crap is not on. I'm so sick of hard working men creating amazing things and getting screwed over.
Copyright everything. Get your ideas in writing and protected. A producer at Fox tried to swindle me back in the early 90's. I learned about Copyright before I met this producer. Dangling the promise of introducing me to extreme studios. Found out I was awaiting patent certification. The producer broke contact.
As much as in the future (Todd MacFarlane) would do the same thing as DC and Marvel, Image Comics gave these mercenary companies a big slap in the face, teased their up-and-coming creators and had to pay for it afterwards for me it was the most satisfying moment of fighting mercenary companies.
My dad’s been telling me about this (and similar cases) since I was old enough to read comics. Shame it took so long to get credit. Same with Jerry Robinson and the Joker. At least it’s coming to light now. Great vid!
To answer the title: Because the audience doesn't care for the most part. People become angry when you point out how much the industry was and is still built on screwing creatives. They just want their Superman comics, they don't care what happens to the creators.
We observed a bit of that when Sony and Marvel were having disagreements. Nobody cared that Sony had the rights, nor wanted to even research what the discourse was about. A majority of people online simply vilified Sony because "they are keeping Spider-Man from the MCU and we want Spider-Man in the MCU."
I think its time for artists and writers to come together and put their efforts into creating their own line/studio that doesn't undermine their work an creativity
To be fair TMNT is a success story of that. One of the founders sold his share before the big cash out to Viacom but either way both of the founders did very well, aside from the emotional rollercoaster it was between them.
It’s important to note that Siegel & Shuster’s battle wasn’t just them. It was mainly fought by Neal Adams and Jerry Robinson, who also rallied countless other comics creators to speak out for them. It’s also the reason every Superman media has to credit “Superman originally created by….” You’ll see it in every show, every book, etc.
The Superman Creators story first broke in the 1970s in Phil Yeh's alternative newspaper Uncle Jam. Only then did Neal Adams and friends jump on it and get more wheels in motion.
I love your channel man, nothing like it, sharp editing and smooth scripting, clear and easy consumption of information. Please continue making videos!
I just finished watching all 4 of your videos, I hope you never change style. Your small personal comments on things are so good and engaging. youre not only spitting facts, but making it enjoyable to learn. youre amazing. im going to leave this exact comment on all 4 of your videos that are out right now, and come back to this in 10 years and see how you've been doing. I cant wait to join you on this journey
Thank you!! Stan Lee’s supposed legacy is a fraud. Ignorance is bliss and many Stan Lee fanboys out there that only became fans because of the MCU are the ones mostly that support that Stan Lee and his legacy.
The same definitely can and should be said about Bob Kane. Not only did this SCUMBAG take claim for singlehandedly "create" Batman, BUT he also claimed to have "created" the Riddler who he had no involvement in the creation of that character. The Riddler was again created by Bill Finger with an assist, buy NOT Kane, but Dick Sprang. Both Kane and Stan Lee both deserve each other since Stan Lee took credit for both Ditko and Kirby's work. No wonder these two (Kane and Lee) were such good friends.
@philipdefibaugh5683 Odd, I've both read in print, and seen multiple videos where Stan fully acknowledged Kirby and Ditko as co-creators of virtually every early Marvel character.
Really well made video. You explain things so well in a way that I could understand it completely even with all the legal jargon and stuff. I appreciate it. Great job!
This is my favourite YT channel right now. Didn't realize how much I needed quality comics content. Hoping you also branch out to stories from European comics, Manga and stuff from other regions!
Your videos are very entertaining and informative - even for someone like me who isn't even a 'comic book' person. (I mean that as a great compliment: being able to reach beyond your regular target audience is a testament to the quality of your content.) Congratulations and keep up the great work!
This is also why Marvel is trying to replace their most famous characters with knockoff versions. They hate paying residuals/royalties for characters they don’t fully own.
@@thedarkroom6416 Iron Heart was originally still the Iron Man series. They killed Tony and replaced him with a new character. But after the sales got really low, they gave Iron Heart her own series and revived Tony to come back for Iron Man. Then you had Jane Foster as Thor. Once again the title of the series was not changed. It was still called "Almighty Thor" which is crazy because that's his actual name and not a superhero title. After sales got too low, Thor finally got to use his own name again lol They killed Logan and replaced him with X-23 as the New Wolverine. Once again, low sales so they scrapped that idea. They killed Bruce Banner and replaced him with "Totally Awesome Hulk" and had to end that series too. Basically, any Avenger you can think of was replaced around 2018-2020, but the sales were always so low that they had to end the series and bring back the originals.
@matttt, as a part 2, you should go over the character Angela, originally created by Neil Gaiman for Spawn, but is now part of Marvel, yet still owned 50/50 between McFarlane and Gaiman. that was a messy situation, especially since the original idea of Image comics was "creator owned". Love the channel, keep it up!
Hey man, just wanted to say that your channel is great! You don't usually see people talking about comics the way you do, it's awesome that this exists. Please, give us some more of your work cause you're totally rocking it!
Reed Crandall, my favorite artist of EC/Creepy era of horror comics, died a broke janitor as well. Even beyond the fight for rights, artists just aren't paid shit compared to what they're worth. matttt came out o nowhere and is already becoming one of my favorite TH-camrs for comics.
There is an excellent channel called ‘Great Art Explained’ which is getting really big. Your channel is ‘Great Comic Art Explained’ and you deserve to keep getting bigger as well. Keep up the good work and interesting videos.
Honestly, you'd be shocked to find out that the comics industry isn't even the only art based gig to do this stuff. I come into this researching cartoons, and it happens all the time. Just never this badly. We really should be more up to crediting folks like Bill Finger, Ub Iwerks and the like for creating these beloved characters and not the folks who claim to like Bob Kane and Walt Disney.
also happens with what are considered serialized paperbacks the creator of the vampire diaries has never seen any royalties from the tv series, and while she would have loved to sue the twilight author (who stole everything from vampire diaries, except for the sparkly thing) she cant....because she doesnt own the rights
I remember when I was in my teens, back in the early 2000s I used to draw manga a lot. My mother told me how Stan Lee was “looking” for a new super hero. She thought it was an opportunity to pass off one of my creations. I never went through with it because I was also quite lethargic. Seeing all this makes me glad I never gave these companies anything.
Good episode. Strong script! I hope more comic book companies realize / remember that offering financial incentives to creators is in their best interest, too.
One of saddest parts in all this is that many if not most of the creative talent that works for the big two will actively work against you, sell you out, and screw you over for a chance to get ahead in the industry.
Where did you even come from? Fourth video, 25K subscribers, and amazing quality in every way?? There’s no way this is your first channel, right?? Either way, keep it up man!
Successful manga creators becomes rich, respected, and influential on entire society. Successful American comic creators dies penniless and forgotten by history. Let that sink in.
I hope your channel BLOWS UP! You earned it, your storytelling/reporting is amazing, and has given me insight into amazing Comicbook stories- more interesting than anywhere else on the web and your channel is like... 2 months old or something. Lol. You are just waiting to blow up. In before the swarm!
Bill Finger's first credit was put on "The Dark Knight Rises". Not even a good one. It's crazy that he shadow wrote Batman and just barely got credit a few years ago.
I worked in animation for a few years. A bit of a drifter into the studio spaces, but knew a lot of the people. A corporation is a group of Lawyers and Accountants whose job it is to protect the perverts who make them money. And to destroy the lives of the actual productive people.
That "shared universe" thing is really tricky. Technically, Jim Rhodes was "created" by John Byrne- he was a pilot for Tony Stark and was on one page. That's it. Then Dennis O'Neil spent years developing that character, giving him a family, opinions and, when Tony Stark's alcoholism got bad, O'Neill did something revolutionary and made Jim Rhodes take over as Iron Man. For years. So. Who really "created" Jim Rhodes? Marvel says Byrne did. I say bull.
amazingly nuanced. Never thought I'd hear somebody say that they sympathize with a company no matter the context. I think most creators would have taken an idea like this and just used it to completely shit on the comics industry.
This is so sad but important to know. Especially for artists and creatives. And I agree, the fact that creator donation program exists sounds depressing.
Coming back to collecting comics as an adult now I’m starting to learn the history behind the artists, publishers etc. and wow learning of what Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko went through with marvel and Stan Lee and bill finger with bob kane it really makes you think and want to be mad at people & publishers I really liked. I’ve always hated big business ethics I guess how could I expect companies like marvel and Dc to be any different.
reminds me of member of band Men At Work who WON his copyright case at court v Record Label but was awarded LESS than legal fees and became alcoholic and died destitute
Writing contracts on the back of checks is one of the most shadiest and grimiest things I’ve ever heard of. Only a soulless and vindictive company would do that.
How is it even legal
@@maxs-lz4pn You are right !
I live in Canada and from what I learned, here it is not legal ; formally, only what is written on the front must be considered.
Also, to tie a forced contract to a salary check is obviously a vice of form.
Bruh, I started malding when I heard dat sh!t
@@Cinetiste in canada freedom is an illusion.
That's Marvel in a nutshell.
I went to high school with Bill Finger’s granddaughter. She talked a lot about how her grandfather didn’t get credit for his work on Batman. I was very happy for her and her family when Bill Finger finally got the credit he deserved.
Can't pay Bill's with credit
@@Kn1ghtborne exactly
@@Kn1ghtbornethey need to give you 10% that they made from bat man to his family
I had a big smile on my face when I saw his name in the opening credits for Batman V Superman.
Fuck that. Where’s the moment
You really have to wonder how many more amazing stories and characters we would have if these companies didn’t try to put one over on the creators.
They can't help it-GREED.
@@powerbadpowerbad the folly of capitalism and class division
@@GringoXalapeno AGREED.
No, we would ahve plenty of characters if, INSTEAD of making these broad monetizations of crapastic "elseworlds" reboot stories, audiences would SIMPLY not be lemmings and watch new IP as happily as old one. But you idiots jsut ahve to be fans of "official" Superman and keep bringing that money to "official" coffers of giant corporations. Because USA is like that, a soviet style marketing juggernaut, not a place of free thinkers.
You have to be stupid or insane to just default to this "it's the company screwing over creators" error code, every single time, when you've JUST been demonstrated how it's a ridiculous string of PATCHWORK bylaws added onto each other. To make "copyright" even REMOTELY even work, because you "created" an idea and claim to own it. When all the value is in the lemmings following it BLINDLY.
You legislated COPYING, bread and butter of EDUCATION, to be by default NOT a right. It goes much deeper than that, now you have universities failing to TEACH people because technologosies and information isn't in their RIGHT to copy and pass along. Simply shameless.
@@powerbadpowerbad "Money is the root of all evil" - Saint Paul disciple of Jesus
Stories of men like Bill Finger or Joe Shuster who had a miserable life despite the great things they did, while other people became huge celebrities for absurd reasons, remind me a lot this sad quote from Nite Owl (Hollis Mason) about the very different fates of Doctor Manhattan and Scout:
"Some dope forgets his Watch and becomes a God on Earth...Some poor kid saves New York City and gets to suffer and die alone and forgotten...What kind of sick world is this?"
I have no words to say other then acknowledging this as the truth
Every time I'm reminded of the harsh reality, I tell myself that "if you help someone, you help the world". When life gets me down, I remind myself that there are people who love me, and that I should continue to live. For myself, and those around me.
Agreed. This world is sick.
We need to Stop procreating and produce so many baby and let em live in this sick world and let em become one of this sick people toooo!
Enough is enough !
Yup. It is what it is.
🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨
@@wolfshield2499start with you and your seed:)
Jack Kirby never saw an ounce of his creations successes. That’s the part that gets me. The fact that people think of Stan whenever they think of who created most of Marvel’s recognizable icons. Jack THE KING Kirby.
Same for Steve Ditko. The dude literally made everything about Spider-Man that is Spider-Man, and everyone always just talks about Stan that just had a name suggestion for Steve. It’s disgusting.
@@christianbjorck816 stan lee took WAY TOO much credit at marvel, yeah sure he maybe the one doing the dialog, but holy shit that man does not deserve all the praise he gets.
@@yourfatboy5359 Damn right. Funniest story I have heard is when he tried to take credit for Captain America, when Jack Kirby and Joe Simon created it and Stan was like 12 years old and didn’t even work in the comics industry 🤣
@@christianbjorck816 exactly! He just loves taking credit. he did not co-create anything jack kirby made, the king himself created all of his creations by himself, dc's new gods proves this, did stan lee also co-create that? Hell no. It's sad seeing how stan lee is praised by everyone but jack, steve, and many other writers and artists are only praised by die hard comic fans.
@@yourfatboy5359 Exactly. I really loathe all these normies praising Stan Lee to high heaven.
*Fun fact:* Bill Finger was honored in a short comic called "The Sacrifice", released in commemoration of Batman's 75th anniversary. In said story, the Phantom Stranger gives the dark knight the opportunity to live in a reality in which he did not lose his parents, showing us an alternate future where Bruce never became Batman and formed a happy family with Natalya. Unfortunately, in this new reality, Gotham is dominated by crime, Ra's al Ghul gradually conquers the World, James Gordon is a quadraplegic and Richard Grayson is sentenced to the death row for killing Tony Zucco. Due to that, Bruce tearfully decides in a really heartbreaking scene to return to his original reality, not without saying a final goodbye to his family. As Batman watches again how Joe Chill murders his parents, the story ends with a text that says "In memory of Bill Finger"
Would that have inspired perchance to dream
@@GringoXalapeno I dunno, but the story described is clearly inspired by Detective 500's lead story, "To Kill a Legend," thought by many to be the greatest Batman story of all-time, right down to the role of the Phantom Stranger.
@@GringoXalapeno Perchance to dream was an animated Batman episode in 1992 and Batman's 75th anniversary was in 2014...
In Sean Murphys Beyond the White Knight series he purposefully made Finger's headstone tower over Bob Kane's
@@JayJ4y95 okay so it might be the other way around then
Finger definitely honored Batman's name. Like the caped crusader, he tried to improve the world with his actions the best he could, despite knowing that he would not become a well-known person. People like him show that, despite the fact that superheroes do not exist, their mentality is not fictional at all
This is why McFarlane and his six friends created image comics. I didn’t know why back in the 90’s when I was a kid but this is definitely the reason. Creators been screwed out of their creations for so long. Especially in the comics industry.
Yeah, but let's not forget that McFarlane then pulled the same shit on Neil Gaiman for the stuff Neil created for Spawn.
And then Jim Lee selling Wildstorm to Dc and thus screwing Alan Moore's content over.
This.
All of this.
Dont forget about a number of boxers,recording artists,& some inventers.thats why you need to patient,copyright,& know how to legally claim tge rights to your works.
McFarlane also got into trouble because his drawings were more explicit and better than some of the stuff currently being written.
This is one of the most important issues in the comic industry, and not nearly enough people talk or care about it. I hope this video gets more views than the trailers for the movies made about the characters that were stolen from these creators.
Not just the comics industry. This problem is a issue in almost every industry. Entertainment being the biggest imo. This is why I refuse to pitch my ideas to companies.
@@Vampiric_Kai You are very smart. Companies love to reject ideas and tell people they suck, but when they do accept ideas, they do their best to steal them from the creators.
@@matthewk4912 Exactly, they reject your idea then steal it and make money off your idea.
@@Vampiric_Kai Agreed and very well said. This is why, if people can, they're much better off going into business for themselves and becoming entrepreneurs. Its one of the main reasons why I intend to go into business for myself as an entrepreneur, make my own comics( and hopefully, my own toys) and be my own boss and own my own creations. Why bust your ass working for someone else when they don't care about you, respect you and appreciate you and why be working on and putting all of your blood, sweat and tears into something that you won't have any ownership over?
The cautionary tales of not only creators in the comic book industry but in almost every other industry really informed me for how I wanted to make a career for myself in comics and in business.
@@JR-ju3kj tambien ayuda la tecnologia ahora puede hacer tu trabalo en weeb
You have to wonder how high quality channels like this one just sprout out of nowhere. You can feel how well researched these video's are!
They just spawn
I get Nerdsync vibes! But, just without Scott.
@@KadenKenz Agreed, unfortunately I feel like Nerdsync's content has moved away a bit from the stuff I found interesting, so this is a nice return to that
@@kikkerdrilThese channels' videos being recommended is a result of TH-cam's algorithm.
@@BartasRapowanie fr
Man, your script, your direct way and honest way to the camera, your editing, your research...I hope this channel gets recognition step by step, keep doing this, please.
right?!
CNN: "Chinese people have TOO MUCH freedom of speech!"
th-cam.com/video/a6k0uDZF3S0/w-d-xo.html
🤔
“The finest line of poetry ever uttered in the history of this whole damn country was said by Canada Bill Jones in 1853, in Baton Rouge, while he was being robbed blind in a crooked game of faro. George Devol, who was, like Canada Bill, not a man who was averse to fleecing the odd sucker, drew Bill aside and asked him if he couldn't see that the game was crooked. And Canada Bill sighed, and shrugged his shoulders, and said, 'I know. But it's the only game in town.' And he went back to the game.”
- Neil Gaiman, American Gods.
Funny how , many these characters, who were created to be paragons of virtue, would probably hang there heads in Shame at the way the industry that spawned them has treated their creators.
It's great propaganda
This is insane. Imagine if Akira Toriyama, Rumiko Takahashi or Kentaro Miura were all forced away from their creations. It's unthinkable, yet here in the west...
there's plenty of Japanese writers who died broke. Animators in Japan are underpaid as hell you do know that right?
When a good show is canceled and the creator of the show wants to continue it, but the network won't give the rights back. I hate that when it happens.
Yeah, I fucking hate it too. I understand you completely. I want certain show which was very special to me to have, at least, its last and third season, but certain company cancelled the show making this show to end in the second season. Thinking deeply about the reasons of its cancellation made me so sad that it was actually the cause of my first depression stage in my entire life... and that stage wasn't gonna be the last one, but hey. It's really sad.
Yeah, RIP Inside Job and many more.
Danny Phantom lol
Utopia 😢
@@saladtalad1311 They even made a remake instead of continuing the original.. this is so crazy.
As an european I knew pretty much nothing about US comics, and your channel feels like the best way possible to learn about this world!
Growing up in Miami in the 80's and going to comics shows as a kid, I heard a lot of these kinds of stories from artists and writers that retired down here.
The stories I've heard from artists are wild- particularly from artists that never got their original comic art back.
Depressing, yet informative and enlightening. Thank you for all your hard work.
This is brilliant, amazing backstory that I never knew, presented fantastically.
I'm surprised you didn't talk about Bill Mantlo, created Rocket the Racoon yet still didn't recieve any royalities to help with his health when the guardians 1 came out.
Jim Starlin as well, he was on record as saying he got more money for Batman v Superman using a minor DC character he created then he ever got from any MCU films using Marvel characters he created.
So moral of the story: self publish, keep your copywrites!!! And get royalties for everything!!!
I'm glad that someone finally acknowledged Bill
There was a documentary a few years ago that was all about Bill Finger.
I forget the name "Man behind the Bat" I think.
The doc was called "Batman & Bill"
The fate of American Comic Authors were so sad and tragic. I was one of the fan of Superman when I was a child, but I don't even know who create him to begin with. It is different to Japanese Manga Authors. Like Akira Toriyama, Kishimoto Masashi, etc. They may over work and tired, but at least, they still have ownership for their own characters.
Joe Shuster
Akira Toriyama just passed away.
Successful manga artists become some of the richest person in Japan, respected and worshiped by the entire society and the world. Compare that to what’s happened to American comic book creators.
Copyright law has always been kind of broken because Congress and the courts are going to lean toward what companies want rather than creators 😉 💰 💰 💰💰💰💰
Yes like I've seen with a surten emulator get shut down because of what you said
"wAlT dIzN3Y dId nUdInG rOnG"
Yuck...
I find the problem even bigger, due to the "Wolverine Precedence": what if Writer X makes the character but Writer Y makes that character really interesting. Who's the "real dad" then? And sometimes there can be decades of many writers who improved the character. Stan Lee unquestionably did a lot for Daredevil, but Miller made Modern Daredevil.
When you think about it, this incentivizes writers to make tons and tons of "OCs", hoping at least one of them succeeds or the next writer makes them popular. Killing Joke might be the most iconic Batman story ever, but it didn't introduce anyone important, so Alan Moore couldn't profit from it.
I feel Batman is like that... And Superman too
I thought this because superman isn’t really interesting. I think his weaknesses weren’t always around and he couldn’t always fly but people added stories and abilities that made him better. He feels like a child’s favourite toy granted power beyond belief. I think the original Batman is also similar but he was more interesting at the start due to being a detective.
Biggest case of this, I think, is with Rob Liefeld and Deadpool.
Yeah, it is not an easy solution. One way to go is to make a author profit from a media that directly reference them. Take Daredevil and the announced new "born again" series. Frank Miller should get receive a dip from it. But this is very easily solved by the company, putting a original name and saying which comics inspired the project, making a difficult case for the author. (Much like James Gunn naming "superman legacy" and that he got inspired by Morrison "all-star"
yeah that's the case with Deadpool as technically Liefeld created him but it was others that really shaped his personality.
They put a contract
On the back of his check.
That's fucking evil.
Dude you are going to be big. Your videos are well made, they seem to have great research going on and the way you speak is very clear. Great content.
I once sent a submission to Malibu comics. Not only did they not take my concepts. They schooled me on copyright law. I never did anything with those characters, but I learned a Valuable Lesson from them.
A producer at fox tried to steal a concept from me. I outsmarted Him.
🧢
@@RichardmpayiTnway if it was🧢
You wouldn't know. Go play somewhere.
@@kract76u just made that up that's why he heard ab it
@@sxteya I didn't
His name was Rob Stein. Now fck off
@@sxteya his name was Rob Stein.
Now fck off
I met Dan Decarlo at a mini convention in Seattle back in 2000. He told me how he was fucked out of money when the Josie and the Pussycats movie came out. (People that did Sabrina did right by him. He liked the show but list interest when she went to college) He advised me to self publish.
A lot of artists are confused about how the world works.
That's sad, I liked that movie quite a bit but it sucks that he got screwed over by those bastards at Archie.
Damn this just disgusting, bankrupting the creators who help make your billion dollar company. Are they that greedy that they won’t just give them a small little reward. Like your already making billions, slide them $30k when a big project comes out and I’m sure the artists will be grateful and move on with their lives
sure but they did not crate anyhing interesting after leaving marvel, the machine for advertising does a lot of heavy lifting for the artists but yes they should out of respect be rewarded eerytime a successfull project with their creation makes a ton of money, as an actor in such movie i would drive myself to the house of the creator and hand him the cash out of my own pocket
It makes me so mad. I wish the creators had gone to the homes of those who cheated then and fired shots at their house. And kept on harassing and intimidated them. This type of crap is not on. I'm so sick of hard working men creating amazing things and getting screwed over.
Dude this is America we don't play fair
@@dontayewhittaker5687 Karma will get them. It is already starting, the creativity in comics is dying. Reboot after reboot🤮.
@@dontayewhittaker5687oh my god not everything is an American issue Jesus Christ
The way you structure these videos is insanely well done and to-the-point. Instant sub.
I have a whole new appreciation for the founders of Image Comics.
Its just how evil these companies are
If a company robbed me I'd be justified in stealing something from their office before leaving.
The worse isn't even companies, but fellow creators who use loops to take fame and cash.
as a new comic creator, i have found your channel very informative. looking forward to more.
Copyright everything.
Get your ideas in writing and protected. A producer at Fox tried to swindle me back in the early 90's. I learned about Copyright before I met this producer. Dangling the promise of introducing me to extreme studios. Found out I was awaiting patent certification. The producer broke contact.
As much as in the future (Todd MacFarlane) would do the same thing as DC and Marvel, Image Comics gave these mercenary companies a big slap in the face, teased their up-and-coming creators and had to pay for it afterwards for me it was the most satisfying moment of fighting mercenary companies.
I often wonder why Todd did what he did, perhaps he was worried about Gaiman potentially outshining him on his own book.
My dad’s been telling me about this (and similar cases) since I was old enough to read comics. Shame it took so long to get credit. Same with Jerry Robinson and the Joker. At least it’s coming to light now. Great vid!
I just wanna say that this channel has been incredible so far we needed someone like you to speak on the behind-the-scenes matters of comicbook making
Whenever I doubt self publishing my books I remember stuff like this. Screw these publishers
To answer the title: Because the audience doesn't care for the most part. People become angry when you point out how much the industry was and is still built on screwing creatives. They just want their Superman comics, they don't care what happens to the creators.
Exactly! It really pisses me off.
We observed a bit of that when Sony and Marvel were having disagreements. Nobody cared that Sony had the rights, nor wanted to even research what the discourse was about. A majority of people online simply vilified Sony because "they are keeping Spider-Man from the MCU and we want Spider-Man in the MCU."
@@malcolmmilk now it's better that Spidey isn't in the MCU
@@malcolmmilk Spider-Man is better with sony ,even sony give steve ditko a tribute in Nwh
@@StarsdealerMarvel Studios is the production studio behind the MCU Spider-Man movies. Sony just distributes them.
It's so sad that numerous creatives weren't properly compensated for their work.
They should have pursued labor then. At least then they could have sued yo get their pay.
I think its time for artists and writers to come together and put their efforts into creating their own line/studio that doesn't undermine their work an creativity
They did, it always ends up like this. Greed and ego
To be fair TMNT is a success story of that. One of the founders sold his share before the big cash out to Viacom but either way both of the founders did very well, aside from the emotional rollercoaster it was between them.
You haven't heard of Image Comics?
It’s important to note that Siegel & Shuster’s battle wasn’t just them. It was mainly fought by Neal Adams and Jerry Robinson, who also rallied countless other comics creators to speak out for them.
It’s also the reason every Superman media has to credit “Superman originally created by….” You’ll see it in every show, every book, etc.
The Superman Creators story first broke in the 1970s in Phil Yeh's alternative newspaper Uncle Jam. Only then did Neal Adams and friends jump on it and get more wheels in motion.
I love your channel man, nothing like it, sharp editing and smooth scripting, clear and easy consumption of information. Please continue making videos!
This channel is so underrated. You deserve 1 mil subs for the level of research and production alone!
I just finished watching all 4 of your videos, I hope you never change style. Your small personal comments on things are so good and engaging. youre not only spitting facts, but making it enjoyable to learn. youre amazing.
im going to leave this exact comment on all 4 of your videos that are out right now, and come back to this in 10 years and see how you've been doing. I cant wait to join you on this journey
Thank you sm for talking about this, can’t believe it kinda of goes under the radar. Mindblowing that this is a thing
Great video as always! And major kudos for mentioning there's a way we can help comic creators as well. Will be donating 🙌
Why we celebrated Stan Lee when he spent his life screwing over the real creatives that made the characters we love is beyond me!
Even TH-cam recommend me his speeches which I avoid, he didn't create any character but took credit for the writers work
Thank you!! Stan Lee’s supposed legacy is a fraud. Ignorance is bliss and many Stan Lee fanboys out there that only became fans because of the MCU are the ones mostly that support that Stan Lee and his legacy.
The same definitely can and should be said about Bob Kane. Not only did this SCUMBAG take claim for singlehandedly "create" Batman, BUT he also claimed to have "created" the Riddler who he had no involvement in the creation of that character. The Riddler was again created by Bill Finger with an assist, buy NOT Kane, but Dick Sprang.
Both Kane and Stan Lee both deserve each other since Stan Lee took credit for both Ditko and Kirby's work. No wonder these two (Kane and Lee) were such good friends.
@philipdefibaugh5683 Odd, I've both read in print, and seen multiple videos where Stan fully acknowledged Kirby and Ditko as co-creators of virtually every early Marvel character.
Putting a contract on a paycheck, so thr have to sign it to get paid....how the hell is that legal??
Really well made video. You explain things so well in a way that I could understand it completely even with all the legal jargon and stuff. I appreciate it. Great job!
This is my favourite YT channel right now. Didn't realize how much I needed quality comics content. Hoping you also branch out to stories from European comics, Manga and stuff from other regions!
Your videos are slowly but surely reviving my love for comics and the stories that accompany them
You make amazing content !! Respect to the legendary creators who gave us all these great stories
These are so well constructed videos on comic history, PLEAAE CONTINUE MAKING VIDOES
Your videos are very entertaining and informative - even for someone like me who isn't even a 'comic book' person. (I mean that as a great compliment: being able to reach beyond your regular target audience is a testament to the quality of your content.)
Congratulations and keep up the great work!
Great video! Quickly becoming one of my favorite youtube channels
That’s why you don’t sell your creation rights no matter what
This is also why Marvel is trying to replace their most famous characters with knockoff versions. They hate paying residuals/royalties for characters they don’t fully own.
Can u give me a example I’m genially curious
@@thedarkroom6416 Iron Heart was originally still the Iron Man series. They killed Tony and replaced him with a new character. But after the sales got really low, they gave Iron Heart her own series and revived Tony to come back for Iron Man.
Then you had Jane Foster as Thor. Once again the title of the series was not changed. It was still called "Almighty Thor" which is crazy because that's his actual name and not a superhero title. After sales got too low, Thor finally got to use his own name again lol
They killed Logan and replaced him with X-23 as the New Wolverine. Once again, low sales so they scrapped that idea.
They killed Bruce Banner and replaced him with "Totally Awesome Hulk" and had to end that series too.
Basically, any Avenger you can think of was replaced around 2018-2020, but the sales were always so low that they had to end the series and bring back the originals.
i don't even like comics, and this is one of my favorite new channels in years
Dude this channel is amazing. I’m getting a crash course in comic book history! Thank you and keep going (provided you keep thinking it’s meaningful).
When corporations kick out the original creators to their most successful characters "as they don't aline with the company's values".
Amazing, when you showed the four cases i thought you were going to split the video in two parts, but you´ve made an awesome work explaining this.
The lesson to be learned from this... keep your Copyrights close, really really close.
The way you can take hours of complicated information and boil it down to an entertaining clip is amazing. Quick and clear.
@matttt, as a part 2, you should go over the character Angela, originally created by Neil Gaiman for Spawn, but is now part of Marvel, yet still owned 50/50 between McFarlane and Gaiman. that was a messy situation, especially since the original idea of Image comics was "creator owned". Love the channel, keep it up!
Hey man, just wanted to say that your channel is great! You don't usually see people talking about comics the way you do, it's awesome that this exists. Please, give us some more of your work cause you're totally rocking it!
Reed Crandall, my favorite artist of EC/Creepy era of horror comics, died a broke janitor as well. Even beyond the fight for rights, artists just aren't paid shit compared to what they're worth.
matttt came out o nowhere and is already becoming one of my favorite TH-camrs for comics.
Thank you for giving us something different. Great work.
There is an excellent channel called ‘Great Art Explained’ which is getting really big. Your channel is ‘Great Comic Art Explained’ and you deserve to keep getting bigger as well. Keep up the good work and interesting videos.
The goat uploaded again. Good to know this account before it blows up crazy
Honestly, you'd be shocked to find out that the comics industry isn't even the only art based gig to do this stuff.
I come into this researching cartoons, and it happens all the time. Just never this badly. We really should be more up to crediting folks like Bill Finger, Ub Iwerks and the like for creating these beloved characters and not the folks who claim to like Bob Kane and Walt Disney.
agreed
also happens with what are considered serialized paperbacks
the creator of the vampire diaries has never seen any royalties from the tv series, and while she would have loved to sue the twilight author (who stole everything from vampire diaries, except for the sparkly thing) she cant....because she doesnt own the rights
I remember when I was in my teens, back in the early 2000s I used to draw manga a lot. My mother told me how Stan Lee was “looking” for a new super hero. She thought it was an opportunity to pass off one of my creations. I never went through with it because I was also quite lethargic. Seeing all this makes me glad I never gave these companies anything.
Good episode. Strong script! I hope more comic book companies realize / remember that offering financial incentives to creators is in their best interest, too.
One of saddest parts in all this is that many if not most of the creative talent that works for the big two will actively work against you, sell you out, and screw you over for a chance to get ahead in the industry.
4:34 Jack Kirby’s description under him couldn’t be any more true and is badass 😂
Where did you even come from? Fourth video, 25K subscribers, and amazing quality in every way?? There’s no way this is your first channel, right?? Either way, keep it up man!
Great video, I referenced this video in my business class to discuss intellectual property rights
Another example on how capitalism and corporate greed override creativity and innovation
I am filmmaker and i think, you are right. I like your talk
Successful manga creators becomes rich, respected, and influential on entire society. Successful American comic creators dies penniless and forgotten by history. Let that sink in.
I hope your channel BLOWS UP!
You earned it, your storytelling/reporting is amazing, and has given me insight into amazing Comicbook stories- more interesting than anywhere else on the web and your channel is like... 2 months old or something. Lol. You are just waiting to blow up.
In before the swarm!
Bill Finger's first credit was put on "The Dark Knight Rises". Not even a good one.
It's crazy that he shadow wrote Batman and just barely got credit a few years ago.
I worked in animation for a few years. A bit of a drifter into the studio spaces, but knew a lot of the people.
A corporation is a group of Lawyers and Accountants whose job it is to protect the perverts who make them money. And to destroy the lives of the actual productive people.
Os vídeos desse canal são ouro!! Sentia falta de algum canal falando de quadrinhos com essa linguagem, um salve do Brasil
The artist deserves just as much recognition as the writer it’s unfair it’s them who brings the story to life
That "shared universe" thing is really tricky.
Technically, Jim Rhodes was "created" by John Byrne- he was a pilot for Tony Stark and was on one page. That's it.
Then Dennis O'Neil spent years developing that character, giving him a family, opinions and, when Tony Stark's alcoholism got bad, O'Neill did something revolutionary and made Jim Rhodes take over as Iron Man. For years.
So. Who really "created" Jim Rhodes? Marvel says Byrne did. I say bull.
Highly recommend the Batman & Bill documentary. Bill deserved such much more.
The way marvel treated kirby and gerbur and others is one of the things that drove Todd, Jim, Rob and Co to quit and form image comics.
Fantastic video dude, can’t wait to watch your channel grow
Such great stuff. Future hall of fame channel.
amazingly nuanced. Never thought I'd hear somebody say that they sympathize with a company no matter the context. I think most creators would have taken an idea like this and just used it to completely shit on the comics industry.
Creators just have to create, distribute, and publish on your own. Just crazy
YOU TELL A GREAT STORY!PLEASE KEEP IT UP!!!THANK YOU!!!!!!😁!!!!!!!!
Would love to see more about Alan Moore and his career!
This is so sad but important to know. Especially for artists and creatives. And I agree, the fact that creator donation program exists sounds depressing.
Coming back to collecting comics as an adult now I’m starting to learn the history behind the artists, publishers etc. and wow learning of what Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko went through with marvel and Stan Lee and bill finger with bob kane it really makes you think and want to be mad at people & publishers I really liked. I’ve always hated big business ethics I guess how could I expect companies like marvel and Dc to be any different.
found your channel from recommended and i am so glad i did please keep making video your videos ARE SO FREAKING amazing
Why anything horrible happens in thr history of existence?
Answer: Greed
reminds me of member of band Men At Work who WON his copyright case at court v Record Label but was awarded LESS than legal fees and became alcoholic and died destitute
This is what stopped me from going into comics for a career
There are no returns for my hard work