My experience of this strategy is that prices never really get that low enough to do that switch with a seriously justifiable ROI so the longer one waits for appreciably rock bottom pricing, some juicy SKUs will be out for new machines and volume of workloads required at that future moment then back to waiting for the next cycle of set of variables.
Zen 3 needs another 5 years of proven stability in the field and a proper distribution network if they want a chance at being considered. At this point, amd is unable to provide and distribute the cpus to all the clients in this field, which is why it's adoption was very very little in the past years.
@@charlesselrachski34 Oh that I remember clearly, it is still a good CPU and that feature might make it cheaper on second hand market, though we still have to wait 2-3 years before the hit, and there won't be that many as Xeons
And for their prices to creep way away from list price. I got lucky and got my 7302 for $600. Should have just risked my financials a bit and bought 2. I'm now in market for a second one and haven't seen any for far under the $900 mark. I guess my first one was an absolute steal.
I watched the entire video without losing interest or yawning even once. I could listen to you for hours. I even understood everything you are talking about even though this is not my specific area (I wrote my first program in 1968 at age 15 so I’ve witnessed so much from the very first Fairchild chips to now). But I had a friend listen to just a few minutes of this video who is not a computer guy and it sounded like gibberish. We had a good laugh. The human brain is just amazing where we can rapid fire spew out acronyms and references and we can understand it completely. Your delivery, however, is everything, and you are the master! Continue to be yourself! Love you man!
I was initially not going to listen to this comment at with the lengthy response detailing the great presentation and past of stuff; then something just StRuCk! Did you mention Fairchild? I have heard of that through another interesting video, it was an animated video of the most important moments and people in tech history from the game boy to the 8008, it was amazing. This might be a poison of the mind but technology has always been about advancement and branching code* (metaphorical).
Nobody talking about the 28 and 56 core CPUs? They mean that AMD is now actively binning 7-core dies, instead of switching off another core and turning them into 6-core dies.
I guess this means that they're producing enough defective 7-cores to get entire SKUs... I don't think that's down to the process, but rather the scale of the operation at TSMC.
hahaha.....I love the comment about Infiniband vs. Ethernet. LOL.... On the 100 Gbps 4x EDR Infiniband (vs 100 GbE) side -- in my own testing in my homelab, 100 GbE was about 1-3% slower than 100 Gbps IB. IB (using the IB bandwidth testing tools) was testing in around 97.73 Gbps (~230k messages * 512 kiB/message) whereas 100 GbE was testing in at around 94 Gbps. So....it depends on what you are looking for/doing with it and whether what you are doing is latency sensitive or purely bandwidth sensitive/limited. (Yes, they're related, but you can improve bandwidth by REDUCING the overall latency which improves your computed bandwidth vs. you just pumping/running the lines harder.)
Oh yeah....re: people are going to use this for VMs. This is probably true, but I can definitely also see a use case here as well where HPC clusters can consolidate down to just fewer boxes/sockets/total number of deployed processors overall as well. And like you mentioned, with PCIe 4.0 x16 where you can use 200 Gbps 4x HDR IB, there are significant advantages that the HPC world can also benefit from systems and processors like these.
I see what they did there on the list price for the 7443P! Reminds me of their pricing for the TR 3990X. I do think that the 7763's list price is exactly $127 too high though, missed opportunity there.
Now if only they would launch Threadripper skus based on Zen3. I miss the PCIE lanes and four memory channels of my 3970X desktop, but the 5950X is so much faster per core that I had to go back to X570. I want to see a 5970X with a high boost and base clock.
Now you know how I feel here with 1950X X399, AMD basically left me to dry in the desert. Either I ditch some of my nvme drives to go X570 or pay 40% more for cores that I don't need.
Hmm? New Epyc has good turbo now, always had 8 memory channels, 128 pci-e. Epyc has great boards, all Threadripper ever had was overpriced x-mas trees courtesy of Asus.
@@SolarianStrike Why not go with a Threadripper Pro 3955WX with 16 cores, 128 cpu lanes and 8 channel ram. I'm moving from a 1900X/Zenith Extreme to an Asus WRX80E SAGE and a TR PRO. B&H Photo had the mobo. I'll just move my old 8X16GB 3200C14 ram, 2 Hyper GEN4 M.2 cards and Radeon VII gpu. Twice the cpu lanes, double the bandwidth with GEN4 lanes and twice the ram channels. WOW
@@DenGuleBalje Yep and for some reason I haven't seen a single 'decked out' board with these CPUs.. they had such great perf/watt yet somehow weren't picked up :(
@@dupajasio4801 Managed service provider, they keep changing the marketing term for us. Some times it's VAR; value added reseller. We are 3rd party IT for businesses in the area.
Hi Patrick, I was wondering are the 7713P EPYC CPU's offered on eBay legit? A little over $1200 for 64 cores, seems too good to be true. Appreciate your input.
I have no idea about those ebay, but those are good parts and they will be 2 generations old in a few weeks so it makes sense they are coming down in price. We have an EPYC 7C13 hosting node and it has been working great. Very similar to this one we just reviewed www.servethehome.com/tyan-gc70-b8033-bs8033g70e2hr-c-1u-amd-epyc-milan-review-mitac-kioxia-intel-marvell/ - We bought the one we reviewed on Newegg for like $2300 with the server and 64-core CPU
@@ServeTheHomeVideo ahh. I could totally see companies licensing the product you bought. Example. Bought a p25 radio from kenwood. It has bluetooth and an SD card to save things on. It requires a separate license to use those features.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo people like the price point, right? I guess i have a hard time imagining that it will be that much cheaper for AMD to produce these to be able to pass that margin on and make them worthwhile. I don't manufacture CPUs though, so i wonder if there's something i'm missing or if it really is just a "people seem to really like 28 cores" as you say. Maybe it's not a missing ccx but several disabled cores over the whole die?
Imagine if you had customers that said "I use 28 cores today, what do you have in 28 cores?" or "How does your 28 core compare to Intel's 28 core? Oh you do not have a 28 core part, only 24 and 32?" That actually happens on deals, which is why AMD needs these parts.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo can you give us a bit more information about hyperscale batch cpu orders? Are we talking about orders with at least 1k in item volume or a couple of orders in magnitude more?
Just take those PCI-e links as some free PLX switches. Those 32bpc-up 16bpc-down IF links will not be sufficient to support those links at full speed, and that's even more of a bottleneck if requests mostly come from the same CCX.
It's a weird little artifact, but it seems the 7763 is an "all-core load" focused SKU vs having lots of bursty cores. So maybe they tuned down the max turbo on the 7763 to keep the top-end under control.
@@JMurph2015 It could be yea, but in that case it would be weird to post the specs like that. They should be reflecting the same numbers, at least in my opinion.
I think we have 3 Mac Mini M1's and the Macbook Pro. The challenge doing it on the TinyMiniMicro side is just that the M1 is largely locked to MacOS (I know there are some workarounds.) I love the M1 on a performance/ watt basis, but MacOS-only is quite limiting which makes direct comparisons challenging.
STH runs purely on the enthusiasm of this guy. I think his enthusiasm could power the world. i love it;)
Now waiting for used EPYC Zen1/2 to trickle down to second hand market when Data Centers start upgrading to Zen3
My experience of this strategy is that prices never really get that low enough to do that switch with a seriously justifiable ROI so the longer one waits for appreciably rock bottom pricing, some juicy SKUs will be out for new machines and volume of workloads required at that future moment then back to waiting for the next cycle of set of variables.
Zen 3 needs another 5 years of proven stability in the field and a proper distribution network if they want a chance at being considered. At this point, amd is unable to provide and distribute the cpus to all the clients in this field, which is why it's adoption was very very little in the past years.
remember they added the feature you really really requested: efuses that blow when setting the motherboard vendor.
@@charlesselrachski34 Oh that I remember clearly, it is still a good CPU and that feature might make it cheaper on second hand market, though we still have to wait 2-3 years before the hit, and there won't be that many as Xeons
And for their prices to creep way away from list price. I got lucky and got my 7302 for $600. Should have just risked my financials a bit and bought 2. I'm now in market for a second one and haven't seen any for far under the $900 mark. I guess my first one was an absolute steal.
I watched the entire video without losing interest or yawning even once. I could listen to you for hours. I even understood everything you are talking about even though this is not my specific area (I wrote my first program in 1968 at age 15 so I’ve witnessed so much from the very first Fairchild chips to now). But I had a friend listen to just a few minutes of this video who is not a computer guy and it sounded like gibberish. We had a good laugh. The human brain is just amazing where we can rapid fire spew out acronyms and references and we can understand it completely. Your delivery, however, is everything, and you are the master! Continue to be yourself! Love you man!
I was initially not going to listen to this comment at with the lengthy response detailing the great presentation and past of stuff; then something just StRuCk! Did you mention Fairchild? I have heard of that through another interesting video, it was an animated video of the most important moments and people in tech history from the game boy to the 8008, it was amazing. This might be a poison of the mind but technology has always been about advancement and branching code* (metaphorical).
TH-cam Channel* and I sort of forgot it…
Awesome video, Patrick! I too immediately go to car analogies for this type of stuff -- so I like your rocket/space analogies well done. :)
Indeed, I would like to know how to better plan the infrastructure purchases for my studio apartment.
I've heard that most important "parts" are the HVAC and the backup diesel generators...
Nobody talking about the 28 and 56 core CPUs? They mean that AMD is now actively binning 7-core dies, instead of switching off another core and turning them into 6-core dies.
Really show u how amazing zen architecture, so versatile
Or an extra middle finger to Intel, because that's Intel's top SKUs. 28 for the 8280 and 56 for that weird dual die chip.
I guess this means that they're producing enough defective 7-cores to get entire SKUs... I don't think that's down to the process, but rather the scale of the operation at TSMC.
Finally! Gonna go grab my STH hoodie to stay warm while I watch this 👌
So happy I subscribed to this channel, its technical and I love it!
hahaha.....I love the comment about Infiniband vs. Ethernet.
LOL....
On the 100 Gbps 4x EDR Infiniband (vs 100 GbE) side -- in my own testing in my homelab, 100 GbE was about 1-3% slower than 100 Gbps IB. IB (using the IB bandwidth testing tools) was testing in around 97.73 Gbps (~230k messages * 512 kiB/message) whereas 100 GbE was testing in at around 94 Gbps.
So....it depends on what you are looking for/doing with it and whether what you are doing is latency sensitive or purely bandwidth sensitive/limited. (Yes, they're related, but you can improve bandwidth by REDUCING the overall latency which improves your computed bandwidth vs. you just pumping/running the lines harder.)
Oh yeah....re: people are going to use this for VMs.
This is probably true, but I can definitely also see a use case here as well where HPC clusters can consolidate down to just fewer boxes/sockets/total number of deployed processors overall as well.
And like you mentioned, with PCIe 4.0 x16 where you can use 200 Gbps 4x HDR IB, there are significant advantages that the HPC world can also benefit from systems and processors like these.
I'm just glad that I can buy a great workstation again.
Would've felt bumraped paying Intel 2 grand for a decent Xeon.
The review as promised! Thank you STH!
I guess we get to see the effect of Milan's arrival on the market now
Thanks for the great content, hope to see you soon in another video
There will be no effect
I see what they did there on the list price for the 7443P! Reminds me of their pricing for the TR 3990X. I do think that the 7763's list price is exactly $127 too high though, missed opportunity there.
When you see a price like that for the 7443P, you know someone is having fun.
When you are so early that there are no timestamps lol
Excellent!
Now, see what you can do about my languishing AMD stock! ;)
Not much.
The 7453 is a really weird SKU, disabling half of the L3 cache but keeping 7 of the cores on four CCDs?
They can sell all those CCDs with partially defective L3-Cache ;-)
...but at basically the same list price as 7343, but many more cores, it probably runs better for a lot of different applications
Really good video, thank you for the clear explaination 😁
AHHHHHHH!!!!!!
I am so excited about this and I am not even in the market for 7003 series chips.
Thanks again for the overview Patrick, hoping it will not be too much longer where you can talk and cover the Ice Lake Server CPU's
Now if only they would launch Threadripper skus based on Zen3. I miss the PCIE lanes and four memory channels of my 3970X desktop, but the 5950X is so much faster per core that I had to go back to X570. I want to see a 5970X with a high boost and base clock.
Now you know how I feel here with 1950X X399, AMD basically left me to dry in the desert.
Either I ditch some of my nvme drives to go X570 or pay 40% more for cores that I don't need.
Hmm? New Epyc has good turbo now, always had 8 memory channels, 128 pci-e.
Epyc has great boards, all Threadripper ever had was overpriced x-mas trees courtesy of Asus.
@@SolarianStrike Why not go with a Threadripper Pro 3955WX with 16 cores, 128 cpu lanes and 8 channel ram. I'm moving from a 1900X/Zenith Extreme to an Asus WRX80E SAGE and a TR PRO. B&H Photo had the mobo. I'll just move my old 8X16GB 3200C14 ram, 2 Hyper GEN4 M.2 cards and Radeon VII gpu. Twice the cpu lanes, double the bandwidth with GEN4 lanes and twice the ram channels. WOW
Well done, unbiased review.
I'm wondering where's the successor to the Epyc 3000 series.. Really loved their low power ability with high performance.
@@HansWurst-hg2em I'm talking about the likes of 3451 processors
th-cam.com/video/615ag-hSeko/w-d-xo.html
@@Airbag888 They call it Epyc Embedded I believe and I agree, they were really cool products.
@@DenGuleBalje Yep and for some reason I haven't seen a single 'decked out' board with these CPUs.. they had such great perf/watt yet somehow weren't picked up :(
@@Airbag888 AMD didn't prioritize it at all
I agree. The Epyc embedded ecosystem is a awesome way to build a low cost high performance cluster.
I love my 7702P
You know what Epyc really needs? SKU identifiers that are readily identifiable.
Wao, chip with my name, there goes that! I will be coming soon, still have to work some things out.
These CPUs with TDP higher than 200 Watts are not fighting against the crisis of the climate change. We need a stop to this silicon race!
Wish I could convince my MSP to start buying HP AMD SKUs. Would make my projects a tad bit more interesting.
What's MSP ?
@@dupajasio4801 Managed service provider, they keep changing the marketing term for us. Some times it's VAR; value added reseller.
We are 3rd party IT for businesses in the area.
Hi Patrick, I was wondering are the 7713P EPYC CPU's offered on eBay legit? A little over $1200 for 64 cores, seems too good to be true. Appreciate your input.
I have no idea about those ebay, but those are good parts and they will be 2 generations old in a few weeks so it makes sense they are coming down in price. We have an EPYC 7C13 hosting node and it has been working great. Very similar to this one we just reviewed www.servethehome.com/tyan-gc70-b8033-bs8033g70e2hr-c-1u-amd-epyc-milan-review-mitac-kioxia-intel-marvell/ - We bought the one we reviewed on Newegg for like $2300 with the server and 64-core CPU
Wooow finally
Is there a downloadable version of the SKU list( Looking to sort it by price , without the 2/3 gen sepration)
Wait, am I understanding this correctly, you have to license the cores after you buy the chips?
You license software, often by cores
@@ServeTheHomeVideo ahh. I could totally see companies licensing the product you bought. Example. Bought a p25 radio from kenwood. It has bluetooth and an SD card to save things on. It requires a separate license to use those features.
Remember when 640kB was supposed to be enough for everyone...?
Intel: you can have 28 cores because yields.
AMD: you can have 28 cores because we like the number?
More like: "Ok you like 28 cores, we can do that too"
@@ServeTheHomeVideo people like the price point, right? I guess i have a hard time imagining that it will be that much cheaper for AMD to produce these to be able to pass that margin on and make them worthwhile. I don't manufacture CPUs though, so i wonder if there's something i'm missing or if it really is just a "people seem to really like 28 cores" as you say. Maybe it's not a missing ccx but several disabled cores over the whole die?
Imagine if you had customers that said "I use 28 cores today, what do you have in 28 cores?" or "How does your 28 core compare to Intel's 28 core? Oh you do not have a 28 core part, only 24 and 32?" That actually happens on deals, which is why AMD needs these parts.
Bizzare 🙃
you sure about discounts??
The hyper-scale discounts are a bit more than I discussed. But that statement is accurate.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo can you give us a bit more information about hyperscale batch cpu orders? Are we talking about orders with at least 1k in item volume or a couple of orders in magnitude more?
Just take those PCI-e links as some free PLX switches. Those 32bpc-up 16bpc-down IF links will not be sufficient to support those links at full speed, and that's even more of a bottleneck if requests mostly come from the same CCX.
Why does the 7713 boost higher than the 7763, even though it's lower base and lower TDP?
@Tano Both are 64 cores
Is the cache the same?
@@DenGuleBalje Yes, you can see it in the video 3:37
It's a weird little artifact, but it seems the 7763 is an "all-core load" focused SKU vs having lots of bursty cores. So maybe they tuned down the max turbo on the 7763 to keep the top-end under control.
@@JMurph2015 It could be yea, but in that case it would be weird to post the specs like that. They should be reflecting the same numbers, at least in my opinion.
need less cuts, more retakes
Hey Patrick, why not have Apple's M1/ M1X and AMD's new SKUs performance showdown in a future vid?
I think we have 3 Mac Mini M1's and the Macbook Pro. The challenge doing it on the TinyMiniMicro side is just that the M1 is largely locked to MacOS (I know there are some workarounds.) I love the M1 on a performance/ watt basis, but MacOS-only is quite limiting which makes direct comparisons challenging.
Until somebody successfully copy Cupertino M1 into a U-rack form factor.
FUCKKKKING SNOOOOZEFEST!!!
280W TDP? GTFOH
Xeon platinum 9200 has a stupid 400 watt TDP in their lineup for mere 56cores, so what were you saying again?
Jm