"What they could do about accesibility? Just release more marines!" - new marines released at the same time as this video, they are actually solving the meta!
I think the confusion with ladders is the “climb this terrain feature” portion of the rule. ”…this terrain feature” is in reference to the ladder, not what the ladder is set up on. The next sentence even says, “(including another ladder).” A piece of terrain is not a Terrain Feature. It is terrain. The ramparts on a building are a Terrain Feature, the building, however, is Terrain. So the idea that you put a ladder on a building and then EVERY part of the building can now be climbed for 1” is silly. It’s not even close to RAW.
Yes, it's certainly increased Elite power an awful lot, it also gives them loads more tactical variety which I like... but maybe other stuff needs to be toned down
@@turningpointtactics6177 it seems to me they could easily just let other teams counteract on conceal too. Of course that would not particularly help with balancing vs Elites but would help mid-range vs hordes
I play Hand of the Archon, I think George is spot on with them. Feel like our wings have been clipped with being limited to spending pain tokens once other than re-rolls. the threat range and glass canonn burst kills we used to be able to do are difficult if not viable. also how crazy is it that if HotA gets initiative tp 1 we can pass to gain a cp and potentially deny both players scoring the primary op at all lol.
It'll be interesting to see how they play after the first balance dataslate, I feel like they're a faction most don't play so maybe when the worst teams get nerfs they can shine a bit more
I am not sure what you are saying about the Melta gun maths. A melta needs 3 normals to go through to kill any marine short of the Space Marine Captain. With P2 - that means with 4 hits they are dead, no matter what they save. No crits needed. And with crits, it actually gets easier. As the crit does 4 whether you save it or not, two crits and a hit also kill all but the 15W or 18W marines as a normal save leaves you with 14 Wounds and a crit save makes no difference.
Nurgle & Warpcoven can make the P2 reduced to P1, they also have damage mitigation rules like spend a CP to make normal damage 1, or roll 5+ to reduce incoming normal damage by 1. so if you get 4 hits, they can roll 2 defence dice, if they save both, you do 12 damage, which they could reduce further if they wanted, hopefully that makes sense?
@@turningpointtactics6177 Thank you for clarifying that. I gotta say - I feel like limiting the reduction of Piercing to once a TP or getting rid of it alltogether for these teams would do wonders to help balance them.
In KT21, removing operatives was a means to an end (scoring vp’s), now it’s an end in itself. Not sure there’s any reason not to take Kill Ops as your main. I feel like the game has really changed, maybe not for the worse, but still very different. I don’t see anyone getting tabled by tp4 and still winning on points, anymore.
Imo I would never take killop at primary. Because to get 3 primary points from kill op you need at least 5VP from there which basically table your opponent which at that point, crit and tac ops should be easily maxed out, in conclusion a win more choice just to flex. I would pick primary ops on crit or tac ops, and get at least 3VP from them to get 2 primary VP.
I enjoyed this . I do think you guys are a bit too positive. The game is in a terrible place with balance and therefore pretty unenjoyable. I’m sure if you 4 had the job, and a year , to make the game balanced, you would have done a much better job. The game is also a lot less tactical than it was before. It is way more boring.
We try to find the positives in general, fundamentally it's a game and a social experience so we're always trying to focus on that part of Kill Team. But I hear you, it's a lot of changes and the game balance isn't great right now, some of the changes in isolation are great but putting them all together has led to some pretty crazy differences between power levels. Elites are a problem right now and some of the mechanics are feels bad for the players. Unsure if the game is less tactical, I think we're scratching the surface, the more I dig the more depth I'm finding. Especially in the equipment and scoring, I think there's a lot of tactics in that part of the game.
@ thanks for the reply. Yep maybe I was a little too harsh and you make valid points. Do you feel that the three objectives makes the board a bit less dynamic and “smaller” as there is less reason to keep operatives back to hold your home or to make daring runs to try and take your opponents home objective.
Yeah it's an interesting change because you end up fighting over a smaller portion of the board which I guess increases the lethality of the game? But as you say you then don't spread out as much. I think there is a significant advantage in taking your opponents home objective though, can really swing a game
"What they could do about accesibility? Just release more marines!" - new marines released at the same time as this video, they are actually solving the meta!
So many marines!
What a handsome bunch
Was fun to record as well so more on the way :)
@turningpointtactics6177 great news! I had wondered what had happened to the podcast
I think the confusion with ladders is the “climb this terrain feature” portion of the rule. ”…this terrain feature” is in reference to the ladder, not what the ladder is set up on. The next sentence even says, “(including another ladder).”
A piece of terrain is not a Terrain Feature. It is terrain. The ramparts on a building are a Terrain Feature, the building, however, is Terrain. So the idea that you put a ladder on a building and then EVERY part of the building can now be climbed for 1” is silly. It’s not even close to RAW.
Yep that makes sense to me! I guess the difficulty is it’s not clear hence a lot of people getting confused
Do you have a link to the tournament stream?
th-cam.com/users/liveieGuLXFyO6Y
Hopefully that works!
The ability for astartes to counteract on conceal is a pretty aggressive game balance decision
Yes, it's certainly increased Elite power an awful lot, it also gives them loads more tactical variety which I like... but maybe other stuff needs to be toned down
@@turningpointtactics6177 it seems to me they could easily just let other teams counteract on conceal too. Of course that would not particularly help with balancing vs Elites but would help mid-range vs hordes
I tried to listen to this and after 8 min nothing had been said 😂
Thanks. I skipped.
Yeah this is the more casual chat, there's some more tactically focused content on the way
I play Hand of the Archon, I think George is spot on with them. Feel like our wings have been clipped with being limited to spending pain tokens once other than re-rolls. the threat range and glass canonn burst kills we used to be able to do are difficult if not viable. also how crazy is it that if HotA gets initiative tp 1 we can pass to gain a cp and potentially deny both players scoring the primary op at all lol.
It'll be interesting to see how they play after the first balance dataslate, I feel like they're a faction most don't play so maybe when the worst teams get nerfs they can shine a bit more
I am not sure what you are saying about the Melta gun maths. A melta needs 3 normals to go through to kill any marine short of the Space Marine Captain. With P2 - that means with 4 hits they are dead, no matter what they save. No crits needed. And with crits, it actually gets easier. As the crit does 4 whether you save it or not, two crits and a hit also kill all but the 15W or 18W marines as a normal save leaves you with 14 Wounds and a crit save makes no difference.
Nurgle & Warpcoven can make the P2 reduced to P1, they also have damage mitigation rules like spend a CP to make normal damage 1, or roll 5+ to reduce incoming normal damage by 1.
so if you get 4 hits, they can roll 2 defence dice, if they save both, you do 12 damage, which they could reduce further if they wanted, hopefully that makes sense?
@@turningpointtactics6177 Thank you for clarifying that. I gotta say - I feel like limiting the reduction of Piercing to once a TP or getting rid of it alltogether for these teams would do wonders to help balance them.
@@oerbek couldn’t agree more!
Are Kasrkin still considered as elite killers?
Probably, but they won't be as good as the Inquisition team at killing elites
@@retnuHDJ thx 🙏🏻
If the ability to reduce Piercing gets nerfed then I can see them doing well, but atm they can get hurt by people ignoring their big damage weapons
Lets goo boys
Appreciate the support!
In KT21, removing operatives was a means to an end (scoring vp’s), now it’s an end in itself. Not sure there’s any reason not to take Kill Ops as your main. I feel like the game has really changed, maybe not for the worse, but still very different. I don’t see anyone getting tabled by tp4 and still winning on points, anymore.
Imo I would never take killop at primary. Because to get 3 primary points from kill op you need at least 5VP from there which basically table your opponent which at that point, crit and tac ops should be easily maxed out, in conclusion a win more choice just to flex. I would pick primary ops on crit or tac ops, and get at least 3VP from them to get 2 primary VP.
Yeah it's a really interesting change, I'm holding out opinion for a few months to see how the meta and game shakes out
Yeah you need a Kill Grade of 4 and a higher Kill Grade than your opponent to max, which can be difficult
Intro fluffing is a bit drawn out lads
Sorry we thought it was amusing xD
I enjoyed this . I do think you guys are a bit too positive. The game is in a terrible place with balance and therefore pretty unenjoyable.
I’m sure if you 4 had the job, and a year , to make the game balanced, you would have done a much better job.
The game is also a lot less tactical than it was before. It is way more boring.
We try to find the positives in general, fundamentally it's a game and a social experience so we're always trying to focus on that part of Kill Team. But I hear you, it's a lot of changes and the game balance isn't great right now, some of the changes in isolation are great but putting them all together has led to some pretty crazy differences between power levels. Elites are a problem right now and some of the mechanics are feels bad for the players.
Unsure if the game is less tactical, I think we're scratching the surface, the more I dig the more depth I'm finding. Especially in the equipment and scoring, I think there's a lot of tactics in that part of the game.
@ thanks for the reply. Yep maybe I was a little too harsh and you make valid points. Do you feel that the three objectives makes the board a bit less dynamic and “smaller” as there is less reason to keep operatives back to hold your home or to make daring runs to try and take your opponents home objective.
Yeah it's an interesting change because you end up fighting over a smaller portion of the board which I guess increases the lethality of the game? But as you say you then don't spread out as much. I think there is a significant advantage in taking your opponents home objective though, can really swing a game
Top right was not as funny as he thinks he is. Stopped listening after 30 mins
😢
I think he’s great!
He only spoke with the truth. Sadly everyone Is hyped about marines that denies the unbalanced game we have right now
@@DarkestDaemon i wasn't talking about what he said, rather his delivery