I think you are correct to say 'what's left of it' I have seen some Pao Chui that's as internal as LHBF or Bagua and was very impressive indeed, There are Wing Chun lineages with only teach the 'outdoor' material. the indoor transmission from those lineaes that have it is as internal or even more so than Bagua and Taijiquan, it all depends on if one receives the full transmission which is mostly closed door material, and not taught in public, people might not like this but it's the way it is,
I have done some research and now realize my comment was wrong, it is XIN YI, just like you say. The six harmonies is considered less internal according to sifu. However, I love practicing the dragon and snake. I am a baguazhang players, but my great grandmaster used to do the six harmonies and it left me in awe. It is a very potent system without a doubt. Hsing I, I do not know as much about, other than the fiive elements.
Look up Xingyi Lui He Quan. It is one of the three main orthodox Chinese Internal martial arts. The teacher Feng Zheng Bao...learned in China but teaches in japan. Which is why the video is in Japanese. Six Harmonies Xingyi is based on 10 Animals and you train animal shapes or movements to develop whole body instinct.
not necessarily. San Huang Pao Chui is very much an external art, or perhaps it's what's left of it. Wing Chun also has very little internal training, although like Baji, training exercises emphasizing on strength and agility are just as important as form, without emphasis on meditational breathing, unlike BGZ or Tai Chi.
well, what is supposedly official is Xin Yi Liu He(6 harmonies) came from Xing Yi Quan, which i think are different enough to consider 2 completely different styles, as Xin Yi Liu He has no animal forms and later developed Ba Ji Quan also is more of a Boxing style, training in strength, precision, flow, and speed exercises more than the form itself. I'm in love with Ba Ji styles and it's so underrated compared to Huo Jia Mi Zong from Tianjin and Wing Chun from the far south.
no one said it is. it's just that internal concepts are difficult for most westerners to grasp if they don't already have some understanding of what they consider as "alternative medicine", the idea of meridians and the concept of qi/chi, the easiest way is just to call it meditational breathing, as talking about being able to learn some aspects of controlling "involuntary muscles" would to most "scientific people", as something mystical.
XING YI like in the title. Doesn't look like any other six harmonies xing yi style I have seen. Has all the elements from I Chuan as well, just from a quick scan.
I love the baji as Well! My great grandmaster is Hui. Our wing chun, (Ip Man lineage) has to be the most easily learned in fighting system. So Baji came from Xin YI? Wow, I had no idea. I have only been introduced to Baji quan in the last year. Is it considered internal? The videos I have seen seem to be very very YANG. I had read somewhere that baji used to be called rake fist.
Sorry my friend , that is also mistaken, the orgin of Baguazhang is unknown, it was made public by the eunuch Dong Haichuan in Beijing at the end of the Qing dynasty, at this point in time Xingyiquan had already existed for three generations. The connection between Baguazhang and Xingyiquan came about because Hebei Masters Li Cun Yi and Gao Yun Shen were friends with Cheng Ting Hua who was Dong Haichuan's second top student. They studied Bagua from him and adopted some of it into their Xingyi.
Your comment is very mistaken. Xin Yi Lihhequan, (From Ma Xueli of Henan.) as shown in this video along with Dai Xin Yi is (from Dai Longbang of Shanxi.) originated in from the art of Xin Yi Quan that was taught by Cao Jiwu. XINGYIQUAN was developed later by Li Luoneng of Hebei Province after he had learned DAI XIN YI QUAN from the son of Dai Long Bang. Xin Yi Liu He Quan has ten animal forms but no Wu Xing/ 5 elements. XINGYIQUAN has 5 elements and 12 animals and is quite different.
sorry, yes. i made a mistake confusing between Bajiquan and Bagauzhang. the latter was derived from Xingyiquan, and is a different branch of the same tree with Dai Style Xinyiquan and Xinyiliuhequan, which Xinyiliuhequan was passed down in Chinese Muslim communities in Henan and Hebei. probably the confusion came from the Ma's and Li Shuwen who both originate from Cangzhou. There are a lot of similarities in all of these arts in how power is generated that they likely had the same ancestry.
There are several theories about the origin of Baguazhang, but nothing is proved or provable, as far as I'm aware nobody has ever claimed that it is derived from Xingyiquan or XYLHQ, if review the CMA historical research and also if you cross train these arts as many have done you will see why this it is impossible to say that Bagua came from Xingyi.
i shall read up on Kang's historical research as he is one of the leading experts in BGZ. interesting note, why is Kang's word the correct word in CMA research when in any other field, once caucasians realize the specialist is a Communist party member, would be summarily dismissed as propaganda. yet if he's knowledgeable in CMA, he must be telling the truth? just curious, i'm not doubting his claims, just that general viewpoints of hypocritical anti-China sentiments are usually very biased.
none of which is conclusively proven, and probably can't be because too much information at that time aren't written down. much of the info shared between schools during late Qing to early Republic era China in TJ are sketchy at best. which CMA research are you referring to? i would be very interested in reading up on it's references and validity. Dong Haichuan grew up around Hebei/Shandong area, it's not unlikely he was influenced by XYLH, Dai's or Xingyi before heading south.
HHmmm not sure about that my friend, In terms of martial skill, meridians and qi flow has little to do with anything if the student is healthy, this is just what is promoted in media and by people with no skill who run 'kungfu schools' in the US but have never had quality instruction. Qi is not what constitutes 'internal'. Who cares if 'most westerners' can grasp CMA or not ? Chinese Martial Arts is about fighting, defeating attackers - taking them out defending yourself - not meditation.
What a strange reply, I didn't say Kang's word is correct, I said it was interesting. Why are you bringing ethnic origin into it? First of all 'Caucasian' is a misnomer adopted by the WASP establishment in the U.S the refer to themselves which in itself is bizarre since only people from the Caucus mountains like Chechens, Avars and Dagestanis can ever be 'Caucasian'. The you go on to imply that 'Caucasians' ( By which I assume you mean white Americans??) are all as a group opposed to Communism.
I have no need to Google Caucasus, I am very familiar with the history of the region and have friends who were in the first Chechen War, I suggest you learn grammar and logic if you want to debate with people as your post clearly lacks both.
And therefore the assumed opinions of this group of 'Caucasians' would possibly invalidate Kang Gewu's research. Are you imputing that I am a 'Caucasian' and that therefore I am anti - China? There is nothing in my posting to suggest either and it's very bizzare you bring it up in a thread about the history of CMA with which it has nothing to do!!
You are the only person to claim this, No Bagua Master or lineage or any CMA researchers( Kang Ge Wu if you read Chinese, Sal Calonezieri has some interesting thoughts if you don't, there is also P.A Lorge in English.) make this claim because it's a non starter and not really worth discussing.
Великолепная работа! Выше всяких похвал! Хотя качество записи конечно... :)
I think you are correct to say 'what's left of it' I have seen some Pao Chui that's as internal as LHBF or Bagua and was very impressive indeed, There are Wing Chun lineages with only teach the 'outdoor' material. the indoor transmission from those lineaes that have it is as internal or even more so than Bagua and Taijiquan, it all depends on if one receives the full transmission which is mostly closed door material, and not taught in public, people might not like this but it's the way it is,
I have done some research and now realize my comment was wrong, it is XIN YI, just like you say. The six harmonies is considered less internal according to sifu. However, I love practicing the dragon and snake. I am a baguazhang players, but my great grandmaster used to do the six harmonies and it left me in awe. It is a very potent system without a doubt. Hsing I, I do not know as much about, other than the fiive elements.
Ba Ji Quan is a distinct style developed by Wu Zhong and has nothing to do with Xin Yi Quan or Xingyiquan.
You can almost feel the power just from seeing it.
Look up Xingyi Lui He Quan. It is one of the three main orthodox Chinese Internal martial arts. The teacher Feng Zheng Bao...learned in China but teaches in japan. Which is why the video is in Japanese. Six Harmonies Xingyi is based on 10 Animals and you train animal shapes or movements to develop whole body instinct.
True. Its really up to the sifu on what he chooses transmit to the pupil.
thx many years I waited to see this video again
not necessarily. San Huang Pao Chui is very much an external art, or perhaps it's what's left of it. Wing Chun also has very little internal training, although like Baji, training exercises emphasizing on strength and agility are just as important as form, without emphasis on meditational breathing, unlike BGZ or Tai Chi.
well, what is supposedly official is Xin Yi Liu He(6 harmonies) came from Xing Yi Quan, which i think are different enough to consider 2 completely different styles, as Xin Yi Liu He has no animal forms and later developed Ba Ji Quan also is more of a Boxing style, training in strength, precision, flow, and speed exercises more than the form itself. I'm in love with Ba Ji styles and it's so underrated compared to Huo Jia Mi Zong from Tianjin and Wing Chun from the far south.
All CMA are 'internal' if taught correctly but most practitioners today are unaware of this.
no one said it is. it's just that internal concepts are difficult for most westerners to grasp if they don't already have some understanding of what they consider as "alternative medicine", the idea of meridians and the concept of qi/chi, the easiest way is just to call it meditational breathing, as talking about being able to learn some aspects of controlling "involuntary muscles" would to most "scientific people", as something mystical.
XING YI like in the title. Doesn't look like any other six harmonies xing yi style I have seen. Has all the elements from I Chuan as well, just from a quick scan.
I love the baji as Well! My great grandmaster is Hui. Our wing chun, (Ip Man lineage) has to be the most easily learned in fighting system. So Baji came from Xin YI? Wow, I had no idea. I have only been introduced to Baji quan in the last year. Is it considered internal? The videos I have seen seem to be very very YANG. I had read somewhere that baji used to be called rake fist.
Sorry my friend , that is also mistaken, the orgin of Baguazhang is unknown, it was made public by the eunuch Dong Haichuan in Beijing at the end of the Qing dynasty, at this point in time Xingyiquan had already existed for three generations.
The connection between Baguazhang and Xingyiquan came about because Hebei Masters Li Cun Yi and Gao Yun Shen were friends with Cheng Ting Hua who was Dong Haichuan's second top student. They studied Bagua from him and adopted some of it into their Xingyi.
Also breathing exercises are only one part of what is 'internal' there is much more to it and it's not mystical or magical in the least.
[iminent wave]發現很有趣，希望看到更多影片教學，而防禦之武術[/wave]
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I have just posted some super Text FX!
Your comment is very mistaken. Xin Yi Lihhequan, (From Ma Xueli of Henan.) as shown in this video along with Dai Xin Yi is (from Dai Longbang of Shanxi.) originated in from the art of Xin Yi Quan that was taught by Cao Jiwu.
XINGYIQUAN was developed later by Li Luoneng of Hebei Province after he had learned DAI XIN YI QUAN from the son of Dai Long Bang.
Xin Yi Liu He Quan has ten animal forms but no Wu Xing/ 5 elements. XINGYIQUAN has 5 elements and 12 animals and is quite different.
動作の意味がわからん、でも強いんだろね。実戦を見ることは無いだろうけど
sorry, yes. i made a mistake confusing between Bajiquan and Bagauzhang. the latter was derived from Xingyiquan, and is a different branch of the same tree with Dai Style Xinyiquan and Xinyiliuhequan, which Xinyiliuhequan was passed down in Chinese Muslim communities in Henan and Hebei. probably the confusion came from the Ma's and Li Shuwen who both originate from Cangzhou. There are a lot of similarities in all of these arts in how power is generated that they likely had the same ancestry.
There are several theories about the origin of Baguazhang, but nothing is proved or provable, as far as I'm aware nobody has ever claimed that it is derived from Xingyiquan or XYLHQ, if review the CMA historical research and also if you cross train these arts as many have done you will see why this it is impossible to say that Bagua came from Xingyi.
i shall read up on Kang's historical research as he is one of the leading experts in BGZ. interesting note, why is Kang's word the correct word in CMA research when in any other field, once caucasians realize the specialist is a Communist party member, would be summarily dismissed as propaganda. yet if he's knowledgeable in CMA, he must be telling the truth? just curious, i'm not doubting his claims, just that general viewpoints of hypocritical anti-China sentiments are usually very biased.
Where did you get this video?
none of which is conclusively proven, and probably can't be because too much information at that time aren't written down. much of the info shared between schools during late Qing to early Republic era China in TJ are sketchy at best. which CMA research are you referring to? i would be very interested in reading up on it's references and validity. Dong Haichuan grew up around Hebei/Shandong area, it's not unlikely he was influenced by XYLH, Dai's or Xingyi before heading south.
HHmmm not sure about that my friend, In terms of martial skill, meridians and qi flow has little to do with anything if the student is healthy, this is just what is promoted in media and by people with no skill who run 'kungfu schools' in the US but have never had quality instruction. Qi is not what constitutes 'internal'. Who cares if 'most westerners' can grasp CMA or not ? Chinese Martial Arts is about fighting, defeating attackers - taking them out defending yourself - not meditation.
that's Baguazhang, missed the typo before i hit enter.
Can someone give the Hanshi for his name ?Thanks in advance.
+WahrerDrache Feng ZhengBao = 冯正宝, Shanghai Lu style Xinyi Liuhe Quan (上海派卢式心意六合拳).
Thank you :)
Is this Japanise audio?
yes, the video is in Japanese
What a strange reply, I didn't say Kang's word is correct, I said it was interesting. Why are you bringing ethnic origin into it? First of all 'Caucasian' is a misnomer adopted by the WASP establishment in the U.S the refer to themselves which in itself is bizarre since only people from the Caucus mountains like Chechens, Avars and Dagestanis can ever be 'Caucasian'.
The you go on to imply that 'Caucasians' ( By which I assume you mean white Americans??) are all as a group opposed to Communism.
nope. what a way to misinterpret my post and show off your ability to google Caucasus. try again.
I have no need to Google Caucasus, I am very familiar with the history of the region and have friends who were in the first Chechen War, I suggest you learn grammar and logic if you want to debate with people as your post clearly lacks both.
And therefore the assumed opinions of this group of 'Caucasians' would possibly invalidate Kang Gewu's research. Are you imputing that I am a 'Caucasian' and that therefore I am anti - China? There is nothing in my posting to suggest either and it's very bizzare you bring it up in a thread about the history of CMA with which it has nothing to do!!
You are the only person to claim this, No Bagua Master or lineage or any CMA researchers( Kang Ge Wu if you read Chinese, Sal Calonezieri has some interesting thoughts if you don't, there is also P.A Lorge in English.) make this claim because it's a non starter and not really worth discussing.