10 Stop ND Filter Color Shootout | MAVEN vs Lee NISI Haida VU Cokin HITECH ICE B&W
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MAVEN FILTERS - Color-Coded Magnetic Photography Filters
(Circular Polarizers, UV, ND Filters, Step-Up Rings, and more)
www.mavenfilte...
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This video is many years in the making. It started when as a landscape photographer I noticed even popular brand ND filters leaving color casts on my images and became frustrated every time I tried a new brand. It began my quest to not only test and rate ND filters, but to also find the most color neutral ND filter out there. I had no idea this journey would lead me to where it did.
"You get what you pay for" is a saying we have all heard and it is somewhat true with ND filters. If you are paying very little for an ND filter, chances are it is not going to be very high performing. This is usually the case from my experience.
But what if you pay a lot for a filter? Does that guarantee that filter will be high performing?
Unfortunately, there are expensive filters out there that are not very good, and many photographers are not even aware of it. As far as I know there is no regulatory body, performance rating that governs ND filters.
I found that while there are a few very good ND filters out there, the vast majority are either poor performing for color or overpriced for what you get.
I realize I will likely be attacked by many for creating a filter line specifically to do well in a color cast test I designed and then testing it against the big boys, however "ND" should be as close to neutral as possible and what you are about to see will shock you. I also wanted to provide hard evidence that yes, there is a difference, and yes it can be measured in numbers. I am also providing all of the data used in these tests:
You can download the images I used in this test as well as the spreadsheet here: bit.ly/2XPsPoR
You are welcome to scrutinize, criticize my results as well as come to your own conclusions. I will take all honest feedback sincerely, and improve the test (or the filters if possible). One thing I wish I would have done differently is used a pure white backdrop instead of a foldable cloth white one, but Ill update that next time.
As of right now, Im pretty proud of my first filters!
Table Of Contents:
03:04 - Myth & True Advantages of Nano Coated Filters
03:48 - Filters Used In Test
04:50 - Methodology of Test
08:00 - Adjusting for 10 Stops
09:45 - Viewing Basic Results in Camera RAW
11:41 - Nerdy Stuff (How to quantitate color cast numerically using eye dropper at 3 points)
17:48 - Filter Scores
If you are a pure beginner to filters, I think a basic Cokin P filter kit (that comes with adapters and filters) are a good place to start. See the link on the bottom of this description for a good, inexpensive kit.
Michael's Maven ND1000 (10 Stop) Filters:
MAVEN 100X100MM ND1000 FILTERS
tinyurl.com/y5...
MAVEN 84X84MM ND1000 FILTERS
tinyurl.com/y6...
Michael's Maven ND64 (6 Stop) Filters:
MAVEN 100X100MM ND64 FILTERS
tinyurl.com/y3...
MAVEN 84X84MM ND64 FILTERS
tinyurl.com/y2...
*On PRE-ORDER FOR $99 THROUGH JULY 15TH. REG. PRICE WILL BE $150*
PRIVACY and DISCLOSURE:
* Michael The Maven is a participant in the B&H & Amazon affiliate program that provides an advertising commission if you purchase through our links.
* If you purchase something from my affiliate links, I will get a small commission with no extra cost to you.
* Everything stated here is my opinion, and I sometimes make mistakes. I will never recommend a product I do not either use, truly love or think would be the best fit for the situation (often
determined by budget).
Filters Used in Test:
Lee Big Stopper - $129
tinyurl.com/y4...
ICE- ($40)
tinyurl.com/y6...
VU $235
tinyurl.com/y4...
Formatt HiTech - $122.58
tinyurl.com/y2...
Haida- $76
tinyurl.com/y4...
B+W XS Pro - Nano - $189
tinyurl.com/y3...
Cokin Nuances - $180
tinyurl.com/yx...
NISI (Kit) - $499
tinyurl.com/y5...
#NDFilters #BestNDFillter #10StopNDFilter
Generic Cokin P Filter Kit: amzn.to/31wjmBM
Music Provided By Epidemic Sound share.epidemics...
Many color casts can be fixed by doing a WB adjustment prior to shooting your scene (ie. get your WB set before you put the filter on and don't use AWB). Many people make the mistake of using AWB and it doesn't work well for most ND filters (1-stop and 2-stop NDs generally are not as affected, but the higher-rated ones like 6,8,10-stop) tend to suffer more. But it's an easy fix, and if you're using a RAW processor like LR or C1 -- among others -- you can sync WB adjustments across multiple images so correcting in post is not such a big deal. I mean the real technical way do to this is to use a color meter, to both meter the light for the control, and use that value to set the WB (doing this in a static environment of course, such as indoor lighting). Using AWB for testing purposes is fine, and will show the obviously "bad" filters, but using a color meter is probably the most accurate way to check, as your AWB could also be off too in the camera, especially if you have mixed lighting in your test scene, an while the control will always be the control, for those who are really nit-picky about this stuff, a color meter is the best route to test neutrality of these filters.
Hi Michael, I know this video is a bit old, but I wanted to thank you for the great info on checking the color cast of filters. I do have a couple of questions I hope you could address.
I am positive all photographers know that any ND filter will display a certain level of color cast, the question would be how easy is that cast to correct in post process? In other words, a filter can display some cast as long as it is not extreme because post process can easily handle the correction.
My questions:
1. Would it not be better to test these filters in real-life situation? Applied knowledge always is better than a simple lab test. Real world experience is key.
2. The size of a filter dictates its cost, so smaller filers are going to cost less. Is it wise in your opinion for those breaking into photography to choose the smaller filters such as the Cokin P type, just for price point?
3. The density of the glass will dictate the cast, correct? In other words, a 10 stop or greater ND will give more cast than a 3 stop ND. Should it not be expected for all 10 stops to shift in color? Once again leading me back to post processing and how easily it would be to correct such a cast.
I have seen many photographers producing fantastic images with all of the filter brands you have mentioned including the Lee filter which you have mentioned as a 'blue filter'. So, post processing seems like the key as long as the cast is not incredibly bad?
IDK, I use Haida and have zero issues, so I suppose it depends on what a photographer is willing to deal with.
Hi Michael
Thanks for sharing. Seems like a good approach. Some of these filter systems are pretty expensive so worth knowing about colour shift, albeit having determined the shift (if reasonably even / constant across the frame) then it's not that difficult to dial out the shift in post, especially if shootig in raw where you can better control the processing. That said more neutral is clearly better.
I guess you put in much effort to ensue your own 'brand' filters were pretty neutral. That said it's unfortunate, for credibility, that your kit performs best in your own recommended testing methodology (just saying). You might consider having your 'Maven' ND filters independently reviewed by someone who is regarded as both truly independent (less biased?) and having credible expertise (i.e. seen to know what they are talking about)?
IMO we also need to factor in appropriatness (or otherwise) for the end image result one seeks. Clearly also cost and ease of use, portability and how it suits your own workflow. I started nearly 40 years ago using Cokin and managed to 'cock-up' many a landscape - before I learnt the error of my ways. I have used some older Hi-Tech grads and various holders but have yet to find anything (system wise - range of filters plus holder) really compelling just for occasional use. Your video reminds me it's not a great idea to splurge on the old Lee Big Stopper.
With ease of use in mind and compact portability, for extreme ND and polarising I find it's easy to use screw-in Hoya filters for my main landscape lens(s). I seldom use grads nowadays (despite my Hi-Tech being pretty good) on account of bulk, time to set-up and hassle keeping optically clean in the field. I find it's quite easy to shoot raw then use a digital grad in post - within Lightroom or Photoshop. Everyone will have different needs so my approach isn't right for all.
Despite my normal dependency on post to adjust tonality, I was considering a new holder from Haida (M10) for occasional use with grads and a good 10+ stop ND, but your video makes me doubt the neutrality of their ND lines and so makes me ask if Haida kit (quite expensive if it seldom gets used) might be an expensive mistake. Food for thought and more research needed on my part.
can you stack these? thinking of getting the smallrig lightweight matte box and if i can get 2 filters right now, would a 2 and 3 stop be able to stack together and get a 5 stop without messing up the image much?
also curious if i start with one of those $40 plastic starter kits, would the image be better or worse than my current circular variable nd from K&F that was about $50?
Thank you for sharing. You made great job. I wish you could have shown a measurement of the definition/sharpness parameters on these filters.
Joan Sabate I’m working on a test for that. Off first glance it is difficult to see any significant differences in the higher end filters, resin (plastic) filters are much easier
Hi Michael,
thanks a lot for this test - this was very interesting to watch. However - I did a similar test before with different filters and have completely different results. I assume that is because I have tested under high noon daylight, while you have tested under LED light. Do you think your test might be flawed because you are using such a small light spectrum? Have you considered using a full spectrum light - or daylight instead?
That’s interesting. What part is different in terms of the results? After my CWB the only things I changed were shutter speed and putting the filter in.
Outdoor conditions change very rapidly, for example a cloud or even a partial cloud, can dramatically shift the WB, so the question for you, is how do you know your conditions didn’t change? (PS - I have tested these in daylight outside, but used this test for the reason above)
If you are confident in your results you should publish them.
Thanks!
@@MMaven I've only had the chance to test Haida, bw and Lee filters against each other. I'm an architectural photographer so I naturally tested them on a job in sunlight - without any clouds and within a few minutes. As you mentioned, clouds or other changes in light would diminish the results.
Also - I didn't photograph a white wall but instead used my x-rite color checker to see the exact shifts in the used colors. Not saying that this is more or less scientific or useful than your test.
Having learned a little bit about different spectra of light and with a dangerous level of half knowledge about lenses and light refraction, I feel like using LED light as a reference for filters that are made to step down very bright light sources might be shifting the results.
I'd love to see the same test you did again in sunlight - if you find the time. I have a feeling that some of the filters will show much better results.
In my case for example - the Haida filters were absorbing some blue and purple tones while bw and lee were almost spot on color wise but a little brighter than they should have been.
mi_FPV So it sounds like, and correct me if I’m wrong, you are white balancing the filters? That would explain it. If you are color correcting each filter, that defeats the whole purpose of the test.
Take a picture of a white wall, custom color balance. Put the filter in, adjust the shutter speed, and retake - then measure the color shift between the two. It’s that easy and the shift is apparent.
Lee (big stopper) and Haida are among the very worst, B&W is solid, not great, but good.
BTW- there are many, many other videos on TH-cam that confirm my findings, they just don’t use the same method. If you are confident you did it correctly, publish your methodology, results and files as I have, and I’m sure we can figure it out.
mi_FPV and yes I have tested these in day, natural shooting conditions - same results, but I wanted a controlled environment to reduce any chance of lighting, air or atmospheric conditions.
You should try my test- watch what happens.
@@MMaven Interesting. I'll try your exact test once I'm near my camera again - we're 6500km apart right now because summer. ;)
But no, I am not white balancing the filters - By photographing the color checker - or any color card - you can correct for every color you have on that color card. Basically the same you do, but you are doing it for white balance and color tint while I do it for 18 unique colors. You can see where the white balance and tint shifts, I can see which exact color the filter is sucking out - if you know what I mean?
...and since you are using LED, which only uses a very small spectrum of light and only certain parts of that spectrum, I don't necessarily think that the results are as representative as they would have been, had you done that same test in daylight - or even tungsten.
Regardless - still a very interesting test.
Does the color cast have less of an impact when shooting video when the shutter is much quicker than these 10 second long exposure shots?
I've been using ICE filters (6 & 10-stop NDs) since 2016 and mine had a warmer cast, which I like. Also, since I don't do color images, the color cast was a negligible to me versus the price.
The maven filters have the least color cast, good job, and for some of them, it was really obvious from the thumbnails! Now I'm interested in other measurements like the sharpness.
There are many other tests to be done. Here’s the deal on sharpness: assuming you have a good lens (if you have a bad one it won’t matter) and assuming the filter is clean (if it’s dirty it won’t matter), the plastic ones are the worst, followed by glass, coated glass, optical & coated glass, then you get into B270 Schott Pure White Glass (coated) and finally quartz. I cannot easily visually tell a difference of anything above the coated glass level. It’s there, but almost impossible to see. Hope this helps.
Could you get a Breakthrough.Photography filter? I was curious to see how It would fair in the comparison.
Wasn't able to get one of those, nor Singh-Ray, Tiffen, or several others. I have heard really good things about Breakthrough (not the X2s) & have a good friend here who uses it, specifically in regards to color cast. Dave Dugdale found some Newton Rings on a circular set of X4s, but that aside, they are supposed to be pretty good.
Thank you for your video. Which holder do you recommend? I was leaning towards the Nisi or H&Y because I liked how the polarizer fits into those units. I liked the magnetic simplicity of the H&Y. I assume that your filters work just fine with either of the H&Y or NiSi units. Have you tested the polarizers that are used? If so, do you also sell the polarizer glass for both units? Thank you.
Hi Mike, I like to see this type of objective testing. However I think your score could be improved by using the following formula:
((Delta Temperature)^2 + (delta tint)^2)^0.5
This will help differentiate delta temperature and delta tint score like (8,0) from (4,4). The magnitude (according to the formula above) of the color shift for (8,0) is 8, but the magnitude of the shift for (4,4) is 5.7. With your formula, both would be equivalent. I am sure that you are trying to keep things simple, but the above formula will give a better picture of what a person is buying.
The formula I gave above is used to calculate the length of a vector in 2D space, which is essentially what you are trying to determine in your test.
You could also visualize the same information with a vector scope, like what is used in video editors.
photojustus what an interesting suggestion- basically calculating distance from 0,0 instead of each parameter individually. This would put the score as a total sum from origin (or control point) Thank you!!
@@MMaven Hi Mike, I had some more time to look over the raw files that you provided in your download. First I want to thank you for all the work that you put into this video and for providing the raw files and your data. It was very informative.
I have a few issues that I would like to bring to your attention.
1. The fabric is not uniform. It has varying color threads and and the non uniform surface can cast shadows and pick up color casts from other sources.
2. The pattern of the faberic causes moire.
Both of these issues make it difficult to accurately judge the true color shift. The issue with moire is more obvious in Capture One 12 than in Lightroom. I was able to manually correct the moire in Capture One and Lightroom appears to automatically correct it (I briefly saw the moire pattern in Lightroom before it generated the high res preview). The moire software color correction is effective at removing color shifts, but it is hard to be sure that the result is in fact the original color.
Ideally the fix for this would be to use three grey cards, one in each of the test locations. This would eliminate the variation in color of the fabric on the wall and moire.
My workaround for this issues was to use the moire correction and apply an average -blur filter to small squares of the image. This eliminates the local variations and artificial color.
3. (EDIT) Mike pointed out that this comment was not accurate. So I have deleted it.
4. The equation you used to measure the magnitude of the color shift is the Manhattan distance. I recommend using the Euclidean distance as it will give you a better idea of what the relative magnitude of the color shift is. This is the same formula I gave in my original comment.
The final question is, does any of this change the results? In other words, does it change the order of filters in terms of color shift? The answer is yes. However, only by a little. From my calculations there are three distinct groups. Most of the data points I measured were very close to what you measured. However, there were a few that were very different (mostly for the filters with large color shifts). The differences in measurements are likely due to the large variations in the texture of the fabric and possibly from the moire correction.
From what I measured, I feel that the above changes do impact the results. For my scoring, I summed the magnitude of the color shift in the center, edge, and corner. Here are my final results. The first number is my score, the second number is your score.
1. Vu - 10.7 -- 19
2. Mavin ND1000 - 14.6 -- 9
3. Cokin Nuances - 17.3 -- 26
4. B+W XS Pro - 18.2 -- 22
5. Maven ND64 - 18.4 -- 12
6. Hi Tech-Firecrest - 36.5 -- 28
7. NISI - 49.7 -- 39
8. Zomei - 55.5 -- 69
9. Haida - 96.1 -- 141
10. Lee Big Stopper - 107.7 -- 176
11. Ice - 148.4 -- 228
As you can see, the order of the first (best) 5 filters changes. My opinion is that any of the first 5 filters would be a good choice. I think the Mavin filters look like the best value of the group as the price is lower. One interesting observation is that the color shift in the center for the Mavin and Vu are very small (data not shown). The change in ordering is due to the fact that the Vu, Cokin Nuance, and B+W XS Pro have smaller color shifts in the corner and edges (data not shown).
If you are interested in seeing the data I collected or discussing the results, please feel free to DM me. I would also be happy to collaborate in order to help improve your testing procedure. Thanks again for all of your hard work and the great products.
@@justusc79 Yes I noticed that about the fabric, and if thats the case, ultimately, the test should be redone all together (and it will at some point). While I understand your equation, I obviously cannot see which points you selected, so theres that as well.
"As a result, any shift the color introduced by the filter must be measured relative to the already shifted color in the starting point"- that is absolutely what I measured. Check my numbers and total scores of each. Differences were measured from the relative center, NOT absolute.
In any event, even by your standards which I have no control over, pretty good for my first filters!
@@MMaven Hi Mike. Thank you for the reply. Also, thank you for the correction about the your relative scoring. I will update my earlier comment to reflect your correction. I agree that the your filters look very good even with the data I compiled from the raw files. I was not trying to disparage your product in any way. In fact, I will very likely purchase a pair of your filters.
I would not expect you to be able to exactly reproduce my numbers as there are too many variables. That was part of the point of my comment. Between noise, moire + software correction, texture in the fabric, raw processing algorithm (Capture One vs Lightroom), and color cast from your clothing (mentioned in your video); it is difficult to get an accurate reading of the exact color shift. I feel that some of these variables could be eliminated or mitigated.
In addition to using grey cards, adding a color checker would be useful. Glass can transmit/reflect/absorb different colors of light in different ways. It would also allow us to calibrate the images for a more accurate color comparisons.
I look forward to your next round of tests.
photojustus thank you so much for your comments - I appreciate and value your input very much. What I am trying to do is to make viewers aware that there are significant differences in ND filters and I have to be transparent and open to having mine tested in anyway whatsoever. I think the distance method is far better in terms of score and I think there are a lot of variables that I can improve to make the test better.
Something that I pride myself on my channel is having scientific tests that other people can replicate so this is definitely a path I want to go down and I appreciate your feedback so much. In the past with this has resulted in his superior testing, So please believe me when I say I am open to scrutiny-thanks again
This is a very helpful service you;re providing, Michael, and I have no doubt that your own filters are as color-neutral as you show. However, I’m puzzled as to why you excluded Breakthrough Photography X4 from your shoot-out. I’ll admit to owning the Breakthrough Photography X4 10-stop filter and it’s given me absolutely outstanding results-far better than Lee, Cokin, or others I’ve tried.
Main thing you are coming away form this is knowing how to test you own. As far as the missing filters, this was for the simple reason BHphoto doesn't carry them. There was close to $2,000 of filters in this test. There are many others I would love to include such as Tiffen, Polaroid, Breakthrough, Polar Pro, Signh-Ray and others. I've heard good things about Breakthrough and the most interesting thing about them? Seems all of their users are aware of the color cast issue, where as users of other filters are not. Fascinating! best wishes
Michael The Maven Thanks, Michael! Yes, haha, perhaps we Breakthrough users are careful about color-cast-I learned my lesson the hard way after buying numerous perceptibly tinged, so-called ND filters, including a widely applauded Lee filter that disappointed. Based on my experience, I’d say your own line of filters is priced quite fairly and I wish you best of luck-there are so many lousy-quality filters out there, people are buying entire systems of them, and there’s no DxOMark-style grading authority for filters. It’s one of the biggest quality issues in photography today, and you are performing an invaluable service in this video by showing us how to grade them ourselves. I also like your advice about starting with a cheapie just to see if long-exposure photography is for you-I’m hooked, but there’s a learning curve, and lugging a filter kit about with your tripod and lenses isn’t for everyone.
Interesting to see another product in this space, I do wish this video included other tests like sharpness, how easily the filter is cleaned, etc. Also I believe it's really important to have threaded designs available as well. As a few others have mentioned it would have been nice to see a Breakthrough Photography sample in there as well, if you're serious about your product I think it'd be worth purchasing one to have it for comparison, it's the filter i use personally. When you do get to having threaded filters produced I'd urge you to make sure they use brass not aluminum and also go with something fairly slim in addition to having a good grip. Compared to my old B+W ND filter the Breakthrough is a joy to thread on and off my lens in comparison. I'm not surprised reviewing one of your own product is met with skepticism but if you're able to have the product manufactured and bring something good quality at a reasonable price into this product space more power to you, everyone will benefit from that competition and having more options.
Really amazing feedback. Thank you so much! I’ll take your words to heart and hopefully have more tests coming soon. The one thing that I’ve noticed about breakthrough users is that they all seem to be aware of the color cast issue. That is very interesting to me as most photographers do not even know about it.
@@MMaven Well, I think I can answer why breakthrough users in particular know about color casts and more, it's likely because it''s a newer brand and also somewhat value based, if the other users are like me they probably did their research pre-purchase. I haven't noticed any strong color casts but I also haven't done color critical work with mine or video, I think for video getting the WB correct in camera is crucial and a much bigger concern than shooting waterfalls and such in RAW mode. I generally adjust the white balance and tint of every photo I publish or print and usually do so selectively with brushes to bring out certain elements and really make the images pop.
Can you make a video on IR filters on whether we should use them and which cameras need them?
Very timely Michael. Was using Cokin plastic soft grad set and disappointed with weird colours at edges.
I have personally traveled this same path 😂- I should have done grads coming soon!
Aloha Michael. Thank you for sharing your knowledge on photography with us. This is a little over my head but, I try to learn something from your tutorials. Still using my Nikon D7100 & really like your dvd on it! Thanks again for all your efforts. Much Mahalos!
Thank you Shawn! At some point you might get into more landscape or long exposures & if so come back and watch. I’m basically showing how darkening filters change the color of the image when they shouldn’t. Best wishes
Hey, would you recommend the Cokin Nuances? Those are what I went with as they were well priced! From what this video says they are good filters, would you reccomend them?
They are decent & good value. Definitely better than most, but not elite.
@@MMaven oh dang. It said in this video they did very well and i got them for a good deal so thats what i went with. So far theyve been very good for me!!
Michael, looking at your store I have a couple of noob questions.
1. What is the difference between the Blueish coating and Gold coating on the 10 stop filters? I mean for shooting landscape should I pick one over the other?
2. Being that I'm using a Sony A7M3 and thus far the largest lens filter thread is a 77mm, would the 100mm or the 84mm be a better choice?
btw, great video and after getting the CARSON SM-64 I see I had dust all over the place that I couldn't see with my eye.
keep up the great work
The Blue one (Valkyrie) is a new model we have been testing, functionally they are the same. The different colors allow for photogs to quickly differentiate between ND intensities. That’s it, just an identifier.
I’d say go with the 100mm, when you get it on a wide angle lens, the extra space will avoid vignetting. We also sell affordable filter holder kits to get started.
I use my Carson loop all the time! So much easier when you can see it -
Thank you for your support and best wishes!
Michael The Maven cool thx
Are there any Marven 75mm filters on the horizon? I use the 75mm NISI mount system on my Fuji and I believe LEE also have a 75mm Seven5 holder.
Lee filters are renowned for their blue hue and are still number 1. There is probably a good reason for that. Everyone post processes their landscape pictures anyway.
It’s mostly due to marketing, not quality. I don’t classify Lee big stopper or little stopper as NDs anymore. They are a blueing density filter. Maybe everyone loves all those extra steps when shooting or processing, I certainly do not.
Hi Michael! Thanks for the test you presented!!! I´d just like to point out, that the Haida Filter you used was a sample of the original Haida Filter Series, that has been on the market for many many years. Since then they developed the NanoPro Series and latest the Red Diamond Series, which perform a lot better. I´m just saying that to avoid associating the Haida brand name to such a poor performance in general. What if you compared the brand´s new Red Diamond ND1000 to the Maven or any other filter to give it a fair shot!?
yes，the Haida one that got is very old one and maybe only sample .If you like that we can send a new one for testing
i was using the john bolton nd filters for my fisher price camera and there was an orange color casting.. i was so pissed off...
1) Will b&H have these by September 4th or 5th?
2) Will you have the Maven's available in circular?
Thanks! Great test!
Jake Lindsay not likely- right now I’m selling them on my website in the description. Yes the circular ones are coming soon, thank you!
Also, for someone trying to save a little money, do you think the Format Hi-Tech filters are a good option?
The Firecrest ones did ok, but in my opinion create a visible color cast. the non-firecrest ones are not as good, if you have one, follow the test I demonstrate to find out how good / bad it is.
Obviously some filter Company may claim the test to be “ Biased “...unfortunately.
That’s really odd as I have tested several ND filters side by side in all manual and found the Haida 10 stop is all but undetectable with or without the filter, I did this as I had the option to return it if it wasn’t so it was in my interest to fault it if possible, completely opposite results to what is shown here, I found it was also a bit more than 10 stops….
Stephen Partridge it was one of the worst I’ve seen
@@MMaven I'm wondering if it’s like lenses you can get good ones and less than good ones, after I bought my Haida I noticed that Canon Australia is also recommending and selling Haida filters, I a m going to re-test my Haida using your methodology on my RP/Rf24-105 combo and throw in a couple of cheap filters and see what results I get…..
Stephen Partridge let me know how it goes!
@@MMaven I will….
@@MMaven Hi, I have done some testing, I tested the Haida 10 stop against a Hoy 3 stop screw on, some Zomei 100mm NDs (ND2,4&8) some Zomei grad NDs (ND2,4&8) and some smaller P series Kood grads (ND2,4&8). I did a spread sheet like yours and am happy to share the images and results, I can also give a run done on the methodology too as well as a screen shot showing the thumbnails, the results were interesting…...
I have 2 Haida NanoPro filters a 6 and 10 stop filters NO COLOUR CAST and both are accurate to 6 and 10 stops. My test was similar to your test but I stuck a colour test print to a white wall, walls where white and the test print colours where accurate, sorry but I don't know where you went wrong in your tests, you should retry the test with auto colour white balance or not use a Sony because there colour science is really bad.
Great testing. I will say, you get what you pay for, so it kind of makes sense. However, companies should ALWAYS produce what they advertise. Thank you for sharing this!
I think it should be illegal for some of these companies to sell what they are calling ND filters which clearly are not.
Very unconvincing, even wrong. Proper test would not measure shift but distortion, that is changes in shift across conditions such as light hue, saturation, and luminosity. This is what matters as this is what's really difficult or impossible to correct. In case of shift you measure, one needs to simply select all photos with filter and shift temperature and tint by fixed, always the same amount, easy, fast. To fix distortion, even color checker picture is not enough, even when you shoot it on the scene.
Im sure there are many ways to test, which is why I have provided the files.Ive been complete transparent, but I realize it is hard for people to see their favorite filters get shot down. If you are happy with what you have, stick with them!
@@MMaven I've taken time to precisely explain why you are wrong and you dismiss it by suggesting I'm defending my favorite filter. Not cool.
@@greengraycolor Im not sure why you are so bent out of shape? I answered you. I dont even know what brand you have.
There are literally hundreds of tests one can do, for me personally Color Shift is king because I dont like the extra steps (as I explained in the video) and it doesn't work with compositing or grads (also explained). You can disagree. Ive published my results and data. Distortion will happen with Resin (plastic filters), but not much when you get into B270 schott glass and higher. Not sure what more you want. I hope you feel better soon. Best wishes.
Hello Michael thanks a lot for your advice on choosing the right ND filter, I would like to know if the MAVEN 100X100MM ND1000 FILTER is suitable for a Sigma 20 mm 1.4 Art Lens and what filter holder should I buy fir this lens, do you ship to Canada?
Yes we will ship to Canada 🇨🇦 ☺️. You will need a size Z filter holder that adapts to leaf petals, and unfortunately there aren’t many out there, however...I think I can make one for you. Interested?
Michael The Maven hello, please let me know your email address many thanks
I love your research to use several brands. However, I did not find the famous filter brand in my place H&Y Filters in your research. Have you never heard before? then is there a plan to test a graduate filter, perhaps a soft, hard and reversible filter?
I unfortunately have not heard of them-I called B and H and basically asked them to send me everything they had in stock of 10 stop and the filters-there are a few more that they supposed to have but they were out. Yes we have plans for all the grad’s but it takes some time for me to test and approve each one
It seems to me that since most photogs are shooting with digital equipment and processing images in post, the fact that there may be a colour cast caused by the filter is a moot point. It's just not relevant. A couple clicks in your favourite software and the colour cast is gone. What about the durability, usability, accessories, functionality, etc. There are more factors than just colour cast.
Not true. Not only does it dramatically Increase workflow, there are some cases it won’t work. Then Try it compositing, or changing lighting conditions, or video and let me know how fun that is.
2- if they have color cast they are not Nd.
3- the ones with bad color cast almost universally have other issues.
Michael are you going to make these filters with screw in threads or do they require a external mount? I am very interested in getting a 6 and 10 stop for my 16-35 g-master lens and it has an 82 mm thread? I will gladly buy yours just to support all your effort
Yes- the first threaded filter will be the 82mm 10 stop- we are working on it now
I really appreciate the support! It means a lot to me
@@MMaven I was just about to make a purchase I will wait till you are ready, put me down for a 10 and 6 stop if you make them
Congratulations on your forthcoming filter release. Having seen both the NISI and the Lee ND filters in use with *many* photographers on TH-cam, I was utterly shocked to see how poorly they performed here. Best of success with partnering with B&H to carry your filters! If I ever get into landscape photography on a serious level, I know which filters I will purchase! #BuyOnceCryOnce
If possible, what filters do you use
Do you plan to sell 150x150mm 6-stop and 10-stop ND filters? Great video!!!
Hi Greg! Yes they are coming
How does one make their own filter and beats all the major brands?
Lots of science and lots of testing!
Congrats on the new product line!
Thank you so much. It’s been almost 5 years in the works!
wow what a shootout
Do you guys really use these ultra dark ones lot? I never needed more than a 1/64. Even that was kinda dark when I used it.
I kinda like the 6 stop ones myself, but if you are doing lots of daylight work with wider aperture lenses, you pretty much have to have a 10 stop.
It also depends on the length of exposure obviously..
I love the work you do. However.....your filter came out top .....but you haven’t told us who actually manufacturers it for you . Also when a review puts the reviewers own product top of the list it is a bit suspicious . With filters it is not just all about the colour cast ..sharpness is a big requirement too . I do like and respect the work you do. It would have been better to have independent reviews of your product .
All fair criticisms, which is why I published my methodology, results and even made the files available for download. I literally showed everything. The other independent reviews are coming, but remember these are brand new.
What is more important (and what I emphasized) is that all users know how to test their own filters to come to their own conclusions about their own ND filters they currently have. If they are happy with them, they should stick with them.
What holder would you recommend for your 84mm filters. I shoot M43, fyi.
M43 shooters should go with a Cokin P filter holder. They are lighter and smaller and still large enough to use with wide angle lenses. Here’s a decent P kit for under $30. It the one I still use to this day and is compatible with my 84mm : amzn.to/31wjmBM
Michael The Maven Thank you. I’ll check that out.
Amazing work! Thank you very much!!!
Thank you!1👍🏻
Make a 150x150?
They are coming in 2021
Looks like you’re onto a winner 🥳 No doubt the Lee brigade will vent their frustration 😂 Hopefully some soft grads will be coming soon. If purchased from your site can they be sent off to the land down under where kangaroos roam the streets 🦘
Thank you! Im pretty happy with them for my first set & I hope they will only get better. We have a few more models coming and we can definitely we can ship to Australia. Best wishes!
I think you’re monitoring my phone.... I was talking with other photographers about ND filters! Mahalo
Dang! U caught me 😂
Michael The Maven now I need you to review 100x100 filter holders...
Hal Snyder That would actually be a good one
Quit braggin', Michael ;-) Great job, a real eye opener!
FYI, every Lee filter owner knows about the blue cooler color cast from the Lee Big Stopper in which they correct in post.
❤️❤️
Stopped watching the video when he brought out his filter. No need to watch the rest since his will obviously be found “better” lol how predictable.
Maybe you shouldn't even started to watch the video, , as it is stated in the title that is was a comparison between Maven and co... Or it was only for commenting....
However, I do trust Michael as all of his videos proved to be unbiased, honest and very instructional.
Its all good. I showed all my work. If you are happy with your ND filters, stick with them.