Horseman 45FA Review - A Compact 4x5 Film Camera
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ค. 2024
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Today we're taking a look at my favourite large-format film camera, the Horseman 45FA. This metal field camera is incredibly compact yet still very capable, but it's not for everyone. In this video, I'm going to share my experience so far with the 45FA, its features, and a couple of shortcomings and things to keep in mind if you're thinking of picking one of these up.
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Here are several things about these "clamshell-style" field cameras to think about for people who may be interested in buying one of them as a first foray into large format photography...
1. The bed that the front standard slides into can't be shortened very effectively (but on some/most of these cameras, you can tilt it down past the 90-degree point). This limits the wide angle lenses that you can efectively shoot with. If you LOVE really wide angle lenses on 35mm (like a 17mm, 20mm, and up to about 24mm) you are going to have a hard time shooting a comparable focal length on 4x5 with ths camera, because the front standard will get into the frame. On some, you can drop the bed and then apply rise to zero-out the camera to help, but that leads to #2-->
2. The bellows on these cameras aren't terribly good for super wide angle or telephoto shooting. At the short end, the bellows will be bunched up enough that you may have trouble getting any rise or tilt in the composition. On the long end, the bellows are going to be pulled tight enough that you may not have a lot of options as well (if the bed allows you to extend, which the linhof does, for example). Some of them have interchangable bellows, so you can put a good WA bellows on, but that is more to carry, etc.
Kyle is using a 105mm on the wide end, which is roughly equivalent to a 35mm lens in 35mm world, so not too wide. The Horseman 45FA will supposedly take down to about a 65mm lens, which is equivalent to about 22mm in 35mm cameras. Anything wider is functionall impossible. It won't accept a recessed lens board and even with the 65mm (and 75mm, but maybe not the 90mm) you will be getting the front bed in the frame and will have to drop the front bed and indirectly square up the lens and the film to make an unobstructed straight shot.
If you are thinking about using this with roll film, you have the same problem with the shorter lenses and the bellows getting bunched up, but you won't have an issue with the bed getting into the shot.
Overall, they are a GREAT field camera option as long as you understand the limitations of them and can work within those, but you just have to go through the process of figuring out what you will want to do just to be sure. If you are really a wide-angle shooter, I think I'd be looking at another camera, because these clamshell cameras get a bit jammed up into the housing when shooting wide angle LF lenses. Similarly, if you like shooting longer telephoto lenses (100mm or longer on 35mm) you are going to have issues with this camera (but you can get a telephoto LF lens like the Nikkor 270mm T or 360mm T or the Fujinon 300mm T and they should all work fine on the camera without a terribly long extention board. What you need to figure out is if the "flange focal length" of the telephoto lenses is compatible, not the actual focal length.
Awesome. Thanks for sharing this!
@@KyleMcDougall Keep up the the great work Kyle. Love your videos and photography, and damn you for forcing me to buy a Rolleiflex a few months ago! Hahahaha...
I have the Nikkor 270 T-ED for my Wista DX. It’s super sharp but it barely covers the 4x5 frame so movements are pretty limited. I felt the 360 was just too heavy and bulky for the DX. I’ve got the Rodenstock Grandagon 75mm 6.3 for wide angle. It’s not as easy to use as my 90 SA 8.0 and again runs out of image circle pretty quickly. A 4.5 is too bulky. I am packing about 60lbs with
all my crap as it is. To new users I would recommend starting out with a 135/150 or 180/210 for a normal and a 90 for wide angle and stick with those until you’ve mastered them. These cameras take time and too many lens choices aren’t helpful initially IMHO.
A good review. Thanks for keeping large format interest alive.
Thank you for pointing that out. Much appreciated👍
of the Horseman/Toyo/Wista the Wista are the best for this because you can opt to drop the bed but also the rail system is in three parts to keep it from protruding too much and also Wista has a bag bellows option and doesn't require anything special to run a 90mm lens. In any case in my use case I found anything wider than around 115 to be not of much use. I actually got rid of all my wide lenses for one reason ... most of them you have to hunt down a super expensive and hard to find center ND unless you are okay with vignetting (I'm not and I wasn't okay with paying more for a filter than the lens cost). My kit now is just a 135mm and a 210mm and it's been fine for me. Sometimes less is more (at least for me) because too many choices messes with my decisiveness 😂
I'm not a large format photographer, but it's always intrigued me. I have a class coming up in the fall where we'll be working with 4x5 cameras, developing our own film, and then printing in the darkroom. Been loving this channel!
Glad you've enjoyed!
This camera is so beautiful ❤ was already waiting for the video on it! Hope to see many more appearances.
Great video and very nice shots!
Hey, just wanted to say thanks for introducing me to the shen hao viewfinder! I have couple horseman cameras and love using the 45FA and was able to get a used shen hao viewfinder and it’s amazing! It turned my world upside down, pun intended.
I used one of those for a few years. I loved it. Good buy for sure.
Never heard of this camera but i found it really interesting.
I used to develop my own film many years ago so who knows. I might get one.
Always wondered how these worked.
Thank you 👍
A stunning camera and made so well. if I was into 4 x 5 I would 100% pick this setup too.
Great video Kyle! Very well made and edited. Thank you.
Much appreciated!
Nice video mate!
Great video Kyle! LF is very tempting at times. Thanks for sharing and greetings from Greece!
Cheers, Chris!
Hey Kyle, fine clear review, thanks !
Cheers, Bert.
Looks similar at my 4x5 camera Busch Pressman model D its very compact light weigh I like how also the back rotates for portrait mode, this is my first 4x5 camera but in the future I want to buy the horseman 45A .
Thank you for your review on this camera. I’m actually testing a Horseman FA and wondered if you could show how to rotate the back so it’s portrait instead of landscape 😄
Thanks! I learned a tonne from this.
That komura is a sweet piece, can't wait to see the pictures
Very excited about it!
Lol, was watching your horseman reviews literally last night! Good timing 😀
Also, were you considering Linhoff at any point? They look pretty similar in style.
Linhof is appealing, but the price of the Horseman is what sold me.
great review! interesting that its lighter than the toyos! i have a CF though which is very light (carbon FIbre) but actually surprisingly fragile. i think the age makes it more brittle. looking for a sturdier alternative.will hunt around for one of these for sure..
I started off with a cheap Ikeda Anba wooden field camera but it was too flimsy I quickly moved on to a Toyo 45AII ... liked the Toyo a lot but sold it thinking I'd just use my Sinar F for everything (I did figure a way to fold it in such a way that it would fit in a backpack with all my stuff but it eventually got old doing that). Now I'm running a Wista 45VX. I dig the metal field cameras ... they are definitely heavier than wood cameras but there are benefits to that for sure like sturdiness in the wind (to a degree of course) and they lock down rock solid plus all the movements and knobs and things are very much precision compared to some of the wood offerings in the same price range. I probably paid too much for the Toyo at KEH but I got the Wista VX from KEH for around $675 and it's top condition and that price is basically on par with Japanese sellers on eBay plus KEH stands by their products where I've had Japanese sellers not do that :) (sorry this isn't an ad for KEH and I don't' work for them lol) I think initially everyone gets caught up in the "wood is light and looks cool" mentality but most of those cameras are either two to three times the price of a metal field camera or you get something flimsy like the Ikeda Anba or Osaka for the same price. I feel like either the Toyo or the Wista could withstand an accidental fall and still work...it looks like the Horseman is of that same cloth. If my tripod were to tip over with the Ikeda on it that thing would have been in pieces for sure.
high quality content 👍
I have one and 3 lenses on the way, excited to get into LF. Thank you.
Enjoy!
Nice clear review. Cost of camera should be discussed. I much prefer Arca Swiss with 110 lens board. But admittedly it is a very expensive camera. Personally I feel like one gives up too much with clamshell design.
Back in the 90s i was working as a commercial photographer i was shooting with a Sinar P and a hasselblad…Not my équipement I was a employee…. after years of digital i went back to films for fun …i bought myself a horseman FA and i love it…it a,s is limitation... but it was not designed to compete with a studio 4x5.
Oh man Ive been waiting for this video! Been wondering if this is a good starting 4×5 since I probably wouldnt really utilize the movements that much being so new
As mentioned in the video, you might even find that the movements this provides are plenty. Often it's just small adjustments to achieve what you need.
Damn, a really good alternative to the Toyo ... I'm actually in the market for one as well. Thank for the great content once again Kyle.
Cheers, Dino. The Horseman is a good one.
Having worked with large format technical cameras in the studio for many years, I only use my Wista field camera for the joy of using a large format camera outdoors, and the satisfaction that brings. I can only print to size 20x30 inches in my darkroom, and at that size there is no difference in image quality between the 4x5, and my Pentax 6x7 !
It's definitely a unique experience, with both pros and cons.
Nice, man cant believe you gave up on the GIBELLINI, those cameras are GORGEOUS. I just got into large format with a CHAMONIX 45 F2 and LOVE IT. Nice video here.
The Gibellini was nice, but in the end this one suits me best.
I have a Wista 45D, which I use with an old MPP universal finder. I use the finder to scope out potential scenes without getting my entire 4x5 gear out. It’s expensive for what it is but helps with my compositions.
The zoom finder is a handy tool for finding compositions.
I have the Toyo 45 but my purchase choice was primarily due to the good deal I got with my camera. I have checked out the horseman and it's a really great camera as well. I think it's hard to go wrong with either if you're looking for a solid field 4x5 camera.
For sure. The Toyo looks like a great camera, and for years I wanted one. I prefer the smaller size of the Horseman for what I do, but the Toyo I'm sure is great for many people.
Kyle, I have been a large format shooter for years and wanted a smaller camera to carry in the field as well. I had an old Burke and James 5x7 adapted to 4x5 for years but it is a huge field camera. When I saw you mention this camera some time ago, I decided to research it and found that it fit the bill as well so I've been a proud owner of the Horseman 45fa for about 3 months now. I wanted to also mention that I shoot a Nikkor 65mm W lens on it from time to time and it works well but there are some things you have to take in to account. Wide lenses other than the Topcor 75 (Horseman designed it to be a more shallow lens) will sit very close to the focal plane making adjusting anything a real bear but still tolerable for how I shoot. Another thing to take in to account is wide angle lenses in portrait orientation won't work on this camera without dropping the rail and using a lot of rise and tilt on both the front and the back. The results are okay but there is some amount of vignetting on this lens as its image circle is really only just 5x7 so a lot of rise gets you dangerously close to the edge of the image circle.Other than that, I can say I have had a wonderful time with this camera. I printed extended lens boards for all my longer lenses and that makes it infinitely easier to access the controls, even on the Copal 0 Shutter.which doesn't really need the longer lens board but works well with it. One other thought. With the advent of 3d printing, you can print a 5.5cm board and make the camera hit 300mm. I haven't tried it but all of my math indicates it should work. LOL Napkin figuring of course. Thanks for another great video and thanks for the indirect recommendation for this camera!
That's awesome, Thomas. Thanks for sharing your experience, and glad to hear you've been happy with it!
@ThomasPetzwinkler which large format camera do you suggest only for portraits for a medium budget ?
Beautiful looking beast... daunting looking process, but very zen way to take photographs... one day maybe :)
The process is what I love. Also brings it's own challenges!
I really need to get a 4x5 camera. It is just something I can't get out of my mind, the ability to have movements.
After we chatted briefly on IG about the H45, I went down the research rabbit hole. Ultimately, I don’t have a need for large format photography, but it’s something I’d simply like to try sometime. I decided against purchasing it and hope that someday I’ll befriend someone who has one and borrow it for a couple of weeks. 😊
4x5 is a unique way of working that isn't for everyone. If you can try one out, that's a good route, to see if you like it first.
I miss large format: I used to work with Sinar and Arca Swiss
8:00 I can use the Fujinon T 300mm and 400mm on my Horseman VH-R with the extended lensboard .....
Hey Kyle, I’m a proud owner of this camera now! Thanks for the review it made me decide to go for this model. I have invested in 90 and 150mm, but I want to extend my lens line up, would you recommend a 65 and 210mm too? Cheers Dominik
Reminds me of a linhoff technika
Hi. thanks for the video. why didn't you choose the Horseman HD version?
Thank you for all your wonderful and informative videos Kyle. I have a chamonix and I am thinking about purchasing a reflex viewer but I haven’t seen any good reviews on reflex viewers. When you use yours, do you have to take it off to achieve critical surface? The chamonix reflex viewfinder is a 2x magnification. What magnification is yours? Keep up the awesome work! It matters!
Critical focus….
The Nikkor SW 75 mm f/4.5 is priced vaguely similarly to the Fujinon but that faster aperture makes a huge difference when composing and coarsely focusing wide open! I got the Fujinon 105 mm f/8, the larger version of your 105, for the extra coverage it offers, and it is such a pain to install with that gigantic rear lens group. I actually have to tilt my front standard back as far as it will go so I can mount/remove the lens without hitting the bellows. Weight is a very real concern and one reason I'm thinking about selling my Wista 45RF.
Thanks for the Nikkor suggestion. Looks like a good one as well!
Majority of those new to this view camera journey are often overly focused on the camera, often ignoring the lenses and their specific image goals and needs. Often enough, they focus primarily on the camera due to habits carried over from using digital or roll film cameras with their lenses fixed to their box which also has camera brand limitations of what lenses can be used. Even in the case of adapted lenses to mirrorless digital camera, cinema cameras, video cameras all have specific limitations as to what lenses can and cannot be used. This can be greatly less correct/true for a module view camera as it is essentially a light tight box that is flexi in the center.
Those new to this view camera stuff is often unaware of this realty of the view camera world.
Majority of view camera users today are interested in creating outdoor/landscape images that are not demanding on camera movements or lenses in many ways. This group of view camera users also tend to carry over their image making style of using large full aperture lenses for selective focus images. Historically, 4x5 lenses with a full aperture of f2.8 to f3.5 in the 135mm to 150mm_ish range were specifically designed for hand held press images where the large aperture was an advantage for shutter speed and available light. What they trade off is image circle, restricting the amount of camera movement possible. Most new to view camera lack the full and deep understanding of what properly using view camera movements can do to aid in their creative image making. All this brings up camera choice and why it is driven by specific image making needs coupled with lens choice. View camera stability, rigidity, precision, accuracy is important for using lenses with large full apertures as the plane of focus is reduced due to the large aperture placing greater demands on the camera. For those who are chronic f22 and smaller exposure aperture image makers, view camera stability, rigidity, precision, accuracy is less important as those smaller exposure apertures can "make up" for camera limitations. Do take the time to read up on this set of camera movement examples from a Linhof view camera book from years ago:
drive.google.com/file/d/1JuY8-oY99CLOPEgfeLgF8UGknkBP_ZQm/view?fbclid=IwAR395RGWvhrkg7Qc1oQnhPafHghcr8tOYfYMw774oq8IgWj9mE50TrciZiA
The current focus on lowest weight field folder camera often ignores the reality and limitations of a lowest weight field folder, their lack of stability, rigidity, precision, accuracy and more. There are also limitations of camera movement abilities due to the trade-offs imposed by the design/build of a light weight field folder. There is no ideal view camera that meets every view camera image making need, only specific tradeoffs driven by the image maker's goals and specific needs. Order of importance for camera choice should be image goals and conditions of where and how these images will be made, lenses needed to meet these image goals and conditions of their creation (focal length, exposure aperture, lens personality and much more), camera must be able to properly fully support the choice of these lenses.
As for the Horseman 45FA, it is Horseman's take on the Linhof Technika. Linhof Technika being a 4x5 press camera with rangefinder coupled lens set. Both these 4x5 metal folders have specific limitations as to what lenses (some of these limitations are illustrated in this video) can be used and limitations as to what camera movements are possible. Horseman 45A being a shrunken down version of the Linhof Technika with limitations imposed from the shrinking down process. Horseman made a 2x3 or 6x9 version of this same camera as a smaller still version. It is limited to wide angle lenses that are not much less than 75mm (dropping the front bed and more not gonna help) and longer focal lengths of not more than 200mm. It is possible to use a tele photo design lens to achieve an effectively longer focal length with reduced camera/bellows extension. The trade off will be wonky front camera movements. The shutter size limitation can be serious for some lens choices.. All this illustrated why and how lens choice drives camera choice and how camera limitations drive lens choice.
Overall the Horseman 45FA is a GOOD metal field folder in many ways and not too pricy on the market today.. but that might change as more discover the 45FA's appeal over their low cost wood or similar light weight field folders.. Fact is, metal field folders are better for stability, rigidity, precision, accuracy and all that. Trade off being weight. This is why Linhof stopped making wood cameras decades ago.
Oh, give up the ball tripod head. You'll discover controlling the view camera set up on tripod is easier, more controllable with a traditional 3-way tripod head.. and losing the center column does wonders for camera set up stability.
Horseman Cameras are amazing. Back in the film days, I had 3 VH 6x9 models. Then I bought a Toyo 45A and didn't like it at all.
I have the toyo 45a and this seems fairly similar as far as build.
I also have a toyo 45a. It's built like a tank and can take a beating! I love cameras that are built to be used.
I've heard great things about it.
Hey Kyle, I think I remember you mentioning a 6x12 back for 4x5. Will we be seeing a video about that in the future?
Hey Niklas, I used that for a brief period of time, but never really got on with it. So no video in the future. I will have a 6x17 video coming out at some point though.
Got 2 4x5 cameras , might grab a 6x17 though , for special wide shots or a 4x10 ... nice video.
It’s interesting, but right now I have a 210 and 240 so… I might want a 180 😹😸
Hey Kyle, Stephan here (coolscan holder),
keep an eye on Sinar F2, it's a monorail type camera and as well very compact and light weight for travelling.
And much more versatile and precise in shift/tilt of front and back, tons of accessories available.
I'll check that one out, Stephan!
Thanks! What would you say is the benefit of the Horseman vs. a Crown Graphic in good repair?
I didn't use the Crown for long enough to really get a solid understanding of it (plus it was quite a while ago). But for me, a big appeal of the Horseman is that it's much newer.
Where did you find the Komura? Hard to track down!!! Such a great lens.
I found it on an Irish classifieds website. Kind of random. And yeah, super hard to find.
Cool gear. In which way do you prefer it above the Crown Graphic? Apart from the aesthetics, I don’t see really any game changer.
Honestly, I only used the Crown for a short period of time, and it was quite a while ago, so I can't really comment on the benefits of either one in comparison. As mentioned above, a big reason for the Horseman is it being much newer.
Based on experience, I have to say that the Horseman 45 is better made than the Toyo 4A. On the other hand, toyo lenses fit better, you can have etreme wide-angle lenses. For me, the back on the feet is a problem like the Mamiya press. So my choice is TOYO 45 AII.
What are those 3d-printed lens boards that you are using?
I bought them off of ebay, as I found Horseman boards a little challenging to find.
Hello, if you take a portrait with this camera, we would love to see it.
There’s a few on my IG using this camera. @kyle__mcdougall
Hi there, quick question. I was wanting to know if there’s something out there that could strengthen your film from getting scratched as easily. Say a chemical of some kind that I could mix my film in.
Nothing I've ever heard of, sorry.
During development, you can use hardener in the fixer (or it may be a "hardening" fixer, which means it has hardener already in it). Before that point, there is nothing you can do to reduce that, but some films may have a little more scratch-resistant emulsion on them.
There may be shortcomings to using hardening fixer, though, so you need to read and decide if it is right for you. At one time, Kodak used to sell a fixer that came with a small bottle of hardener that you could add to the fixer if you wanted. I don't know if they offer that anymore.
Don't physically abuse the sheet film, threat then as extremely fragile item.. This means not dragging the sheet of film on any thing that is short of absolute smooth and clean. The tiniest speck of dirt can easily scratch and dig into any sheet of film with ease. If you're experiencing scratches on film, it IS a handling/processing issue.
One of the best sheet film processing systems are the Jobo Expert drums, they work and when used properly, reduces the possibility of scratching film lots. There are a number of new sheet film tanks on the market today, some have designed in locations that contact the sheet of film easily causing scratches on both the film base side and emulsion side. Know the emulsion side is a LOT more fragile then the film base side.
As for hardening chemistry, there once was a time when a "hardening" fixer was used to aid in emulsion durability and to a much lesser degree scratch resistance.. These hardening fixers were used for films made in the 1940's to later 1960's. Then all B&W film manufactures went to a harder emulsion which is less fragile and scratch resistant when DRY.... once the emulsion is wet, it remains extremely fragile with no kind of "chemistry" that will significantly increase wet emulsion scratch resistance. Know harding fixers have a different set of possible issues. Color film emulations are equally fragile and in some ways more so due to the multiple layers that makes up color film.
I'd love one but I can't afford another system. 35mm and 120 has to suffice, it's expensive enough as it is 😅
Rookie question, but can the Horseman shoot in portrait mode?
Yes. The back easily comes off and flips to portrait orientation.
Hey there, can anyone help me with some measurements, looking to know the opening size on the front standard of the Horseman 45fa, as I’m trying to figure out if a Zeiss 135mm f3.5 Planar T* will fit.
Know it’ll have to be mounted on an extended lens board like Kyle’s Komura 135.
But curious if the rear lens element would even fit.
Also if anyone know the rear element size of the Zeiss 135mm 3.5 that would be amazing, can’t seem to find any information on that lens
Just checked for you. Looks like it's 2.5 inches across.
@@KyleMcDougall Thank you for the info! Appreciate your work and love the channel 🙌
Great, looks replica of Linhof
Nice lighting to display a black camera. . I couldn’t see a thing..
Great that it has clicked zero positions and gear driven movements, something I wish my Chamonix had :)
I'm surprised that the Chamonix doesn't have them.
@@KyleMcDougall It has zero positions clearly marked everywhere, and zero stops for back tilt for instance, just not something that clicks in place (except front tilt) and rise or fall is not gear driven. One might say I’m nit-picking here as the camera is a joy to use nonetheless and does what I need :)
I haven’t used one but the FA looks like a copy of the Master Technika (which I’ve had 3 of; beautiful, rock solid but a lump).
I’ve also had Gandolfi, Arca Swiss 6*9 and two Horseman LXC monorails, with electronic DOF calculator! Now that was a lump to carry up hills etc. but beautiful and better made/smoother than the extortionate Arca Swiss and flimsy Gandolfi wooden view camera. So much for Japanese knock-offs!
Never used a Linhof, but have heard many people compare the 45fa to it.
@@KyleMcDougall They do look very similar. Versions of the Technika might have more flexibility (not all?) but at far greater cost. And weight. Though they are lovely things!
The links don’t work
4x5 just terrifies me, lol.
Haha, there's a learning curve, but it's not that difficult!
Great video and awesome camera. It was actually my first choice for a field camera, party due to budget at the time. But once i got it, as much as i loved it i soon realised it was too limiting for me. I sent it back and decided to bite the bullet and got a Linhof Technika. Night and day difference of course but also i would presume heavier. But it has a lot more options for movement and lenses, which is what i really needed. 3 years down the road and i am personally glad i opted to go linhof route as a project i am currently working on requires me to have fast wide angle lenses with large image circles. Also i am clumsy as a goat so i can be safe in the knowledge that the linhof will take my abuse hahaha
Glad the Linhof is working for you!