CLOSE CALL | Plane Enters Runway while Southwest is Taking Off!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มี.ค. 2024
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![[UNCUT] รัฐสั่งหยุดปล่อยคลื่น! แต่หยุดพลังปะทุ “น้องหญิง” ไม่ได้ I คนดังนั่งเคลียร์](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RmQh47eIiV0/mqdefault.jpg)
Hold, hold, HOLD!!!!!
The atc dude was so nice
Hold short something
And call the tower tower tower on this number number number!
could you be more clear?
@@Nobi36the SWA pilot was pretty chill too, considering. thankfully he only got delayed by around 30 minutes.
I love how "hold" got progressively larger, great edit! 🙂
Always ;)
I understand how serious this is, but I couldn't help but laugh at that!
@@R8andGT3FanThese videos are meant to entertain and inform, so there's no harm in having a brief titter. It releases tension, too.
@@PrenticeBoy1688 Thanks! You're right! 🙏🏾
@@R8andGT3Fan Wait, what? Right?! You think I'm right? I'm going to have to screenshot your reply and hang it on the wall! Nobody ever thinks I'm right! 😂🤣😂🤣
"Sorry about that guys."
"Don't worry about it, we appreciate you saving ours and our passengers' lives."
Except, lives at stake weren't even remotely close!!!
@@gavinsingh4450I almost understood that sentence.
@@PrenticeBoy1688 lol!
@@PrenticeBoy1688 Your illiteracy isn't my problem!!!
@@gavinsingh4450 His literacy isn't the issue, yours is. Your sentence is difficult to understand.
ATC took it off air and didn't spend 20 minutes berating the deviated pilot. This is professional.
Exactly. The mission is to understand how the accident happened and how it can be prevented another time. We are always going to make mistakes. Figuring out who to blame, and what the repurcussions need to be is always secondary.
SFO could learn something from this.
Probably because they know we will watch it on TH-cam
Most of us DO take it off air. But you're not gonna get popular youtube videos if thats the majority of your content
@@LionQuiet of course... 99% of the ATC I've had have been absolute professionals... but some have massive egos and are dicks on the radio.. .. so it never hurts to call out when one actually sounds professional
Southwest pilots were very professional
Damn close! Controller sound like he had his coffee that morning!
Well something like this will wake you up whether or not you've had coffee!
@@NeneExistswho needs caffeine when you have a near collision!
@@NeneExists The best way to go from low to high blood pressure in the morning.
Would be interesting to know what heart BPM the controller had, must have been pretty high 😆
Just imagine if someone else blocks the frequency exactly in the critical moment by asking for taxi instructions or some other trivial stuff.. 😳
@@erika8357 This is an interesting observation indeed, I wonder if in airports with the nicer lighting systems on the active runways and all you could change the lighting to indicate the cancelled clearance to the pilot that might have not heard it from a frequency block.
ATC had no reason to apologize. Literally saved hundreds of lives.
But they understand it’s stressful and an nuisance to have to run checklists and delay departure. So they acknowledge that the southwest pilots now have a bit extra work and the rest of that plane’s schedule may be behind.
He messed up so that’s why he apologized lol, he should not have cleared an aircraft to take off until the other plane safely exited at the turnoff
@@workinonit4752 Very true. It's a total inconvenience for the pilots. ATC handled it so well all around.
@@a_goblue2023I think you watched a different video than the rest of us.
@@danielmullies7498 no, the ATC was trying to get the Southwest plane off before the incoming traffic where he coulda had them hold short and wait until the both planes landed and vacated the runway. But instead he cleared an aircraft to takeoff while another plane was still on an active crossing runway which they were cleared to land on meaning they had the whole runway. Yes he asked the to exit at C6 but if for some reason they couldn’t make that exit say brake failure or there speed was to high the other aircraft should not have been given takeoff clearance until the other jet turned off and was safely off the runway. He never told Am fight to hold short of crossing runway and it’s only a 6000ft runway at Burbank which is extremely short for commercial airports.
While ATC was clearly shaken (but staying focused and doing EVERYTHING right) because he realized he was nearly in a redo of the Haneda collision, I'm amazed by the professionalism of BOTH pilots: the SW guys going "no worries" while fully aware of what their next half hour will look like, and the AMF guys going "got it" upon receiving their "turn right, turn right, call tower" instruction. It is just a pleasure to see a perfect example of how a (serious) incident is dealt with.
This would have been MUCH worse than Haneda, KBUR is a tiny airport with a whole city around it and Southwest was on takeoff, if it had gone left it would have gone right into the gates and the terminal building.
And after that, I offer the ATC a nice cup of chamomile tea🍵. You sir averted a disaster.
Disaster? You're really dramatic!!!
@@gavinsingh4450you are ever so edgy.
@@gavinsingh4450 March 27 1977. A 747 taking off crashed into another 747. 583 people dead. It was a disaster. Not dramatic at all.
@@gavinsingh4450there was almost 200 people on that southwest flight and cargo and 2 pilots on the amerflight, if southwest kept rolling and he didn’t tell amerflight to stop, he would’ve kept going, and by the time one of the pilots would see, it would have been too late to stop in time and they would have collided. He definitely did avoid a disaster and likely saved every one of those lives
Great situational awareness by ATC.
At the very end he stopped the conflict, yes. But ATC set himself up for the conflict by several steps before that.
@@mikelp72 how?
@@mikelp72Yeah, okay. Pilot read back all clearances but it’s ATC’s fault. 😂
@@mikelp72the ATC did not set anything up he gave a clear and simple instruction the pilot did not follow. Explain how its the ATC fault we all await your reply.
@@flightsimmer9809 Issuing a take off clearance while another aircraft has been cleared to land on a crossing runway, and just assuming that the plane landing is going to be able to stop? It's not like issued the AMF a LAHSO clearance. The AMF pilot should have said they were unable, but ATC is absolutely part of the potential accident sequence here.
As someone who works with Burbank ATC on a regular basis, I can say these controllers are some of the best I have worked with. Great job to this controller.
Seconded. I trained for my PPL out of Van Nuys a couple of years ago, and Burbank tower were more than happy to allow me to do circuits and touch-n-gos in my little cessna in between airliners. Very friendly and professional crew.
i think he jumped the gun.
@scottwillson5562 How long you been ATC?
A good example of why it's so important to have properly staffed towers, too. Lots of collisions in the past involved controllers who had to move between posts and so weren't able to resolve situations that arise after they gave clearances.
Props to ATC for even being able to speak normally after that. I woulda need a drink and a smoke break
And this is an ATC that's damn good at what he does. Hats off to you, sir
I think the controller aged one or two years in this moment. Brown pants situation, but mastered in the best way possible, good work!
I appreciate ATC that can pay attention as much as he did...he said he saw the plane turning for C6. So he at least visually observed expected separation
It's really a grey area, as Amflight wasn't issued a LAHSO clearance prior to landing. They cleared SWA to takeoff on an intersecting runway before Amflight was assured off the runway. They could've missed the first exit and didn't want to stop on an active runway, so they decided to keep it rolling. Not trying to defend anyone. But this is where the Swiss cheese holes lined up.
Tower explained it: he saw the Amflight turning, but they unexpectedly stopped turning and straightened back out on the runway. It’s reasonable to anticipate that because they started a turn at C6, they’d fully exit there.
Only the FSDO knows for sure.
Great job by the Southwest pilots being aware of their surroundings. Reading between the lines, it looks like they were well aware that another aircraft was near the intersection (it would have been right in their line of sight as they looked down their own runway), and were paying attention to see if it turned short of the intersection or crossed into their runway. It looks to me like they were already rejecting takeoff by the point where the controller started calling "hold, hold, HOLD", several seconds before the controller actually cancelled their takeoff clearance. They just had the sense to stay quiet about it for a moment to avoid stepping on the controller while he was trying to sort out the other plane.
Everyone makes mistakes. Great job by the ATC and the pilots, handled the mistake professionally.
Not in aviation you don't, mistakes can be costly
Actually pilots don't make mistakes, that's why there hasn't been a fatal runway incursion in decades.
@@ZeroG_Bandit I think Air Canada 759 may disagree with you
@@ZeroG_Banditi think the latest colision in tokio japan may disagree with you
@@ZeroG_Bandit/me looks at the library of crash investigation reports with summary "pilot error". Shakes head.
Tower was choreographing such a beautiful, tightly controlled dance, then this guy… 🙄🙄
If Amflight had just fully stopped and THEN asked if they could do what they wanted, they probably would have gotten that. Their big (and dangerous) mistake was doing it 1st and THEN asking "Hey, is it fine if I do this thing I'm doing right now?".
@@Kalvinjjwhat they don’t show you is the background of how the pilot got into this situation
The power of knowing your airport diagram. Also, the power of understanding your aircraft performance. If you can't make it to the next exit taxiway, then don't repeat the instructions. Ask for alternatives. Communicate effectively. Great job from ATC.
Well, the take off clearance was given before he freed the runway where it landed. Maybe it was too early. Could have been a brake problem for example and then intention of exiting at C6 was no longer possible.
Great job, ATC and SW!
II bet he was watching that guy like a hawk though, waiting for him to do exactly that.
You are correct!, sometimes you get that gut feeling that someone is going to screw the pooch, and you look out over field and see it developing.
From the info at the end, Amflight tried to take that turn at like 16 knots, I'm no pilot but frankly I wouldn't take a sharp 90° turn on my dang family car at that speed (around 30 km/h, or 18 mph), I wonder if the controller had that feeling from watching how fast he was gonna take that C6 turn
I wonder if this will get all ATC to watch this airline for a long time for problems developing. All the planes will get clearance just a little later and slower as there is safety in moving all things slower.
He's knows the quality of pilots at AMF. They are very inexperienced! Southwest, he knew he could trust!
@@rubenvillanueva8635 This happens a lot to me while riding my bike. It's an important self-preservation tool to predict who is going to fail to yield and run you over beore it happens.
We all make mistakes, but this one could have killed people. Great job on the ATC for keeping track of things when the AMF pilot didn't.
If ameriflight didn't hire foreign pilots it wouldn't have happened
Really the root cause is crossing runways. You can see he tried to turn. Not saying it's not his fault. He still should have waited
@@jamescollier3 he was told to turn off before rhe runway, never cleared onto the runway. The root cause is English isn't his first language and clearly he couldn't understand it
Shouldn't clear someone for take off when there is still traffic on a crossing runway(active runway), you have to wait until he has exit before you can give the other guy clearance. Same with murican atc giving landing clearance when the other guy hasn't even commenced his take off roll.
Not sure how many close calls we need to see from murica before they notice this shit doesn't work. It's like 90% of videos. Still amazing recovery, but again I don't see this method as safe action. Look how the rest of the world operate their ATC. You know how much paperwork that could been avoided if he just waited until he saw the other guy exit.
curious how do you know amflight turned on runway 15?@@pilot41186
The professionalism of these pilots amazes me everytime! Great job 👏🏻
Was the metro issued and "LAHSO"? The pilot will exit when he can safely do so.. although he accepted C6- the instructuon was given to him during rollout, not the best time to issue the instruction, rhe pilot accepted it before being able to analyze where C6 was. Not placing the blame on anyone, but there were a lot of mitigating factors here..
It's clearly ATC error if you look at the books. 7110.65 3-9-8 b. says to "separate departing aircraft from another aircraft using an intersecting runway" by a couple of criteria, the closest of which is for the other aircraft to have "completed the landing roll and is observed turning at an exit point prior to the intersection". If the animation from the video is accurate, ATC gave takeoff clearance before the AMF started turning. Moreover, you can't suddenly turn a taxi instruction into a LAHSO.
> 7110.65 3-9-8 b. 2. (b) Has completed the landing roll on the runway and will hold short of the intersection, or
This is closer, and the fact that the aircraft was at taxi speed and accepted the turn instruction means it would also hold short of the runway intersection.
Thanks!
Props to the SWA pilots for great situational awareness as well!
Couple of questions about this one. Was 1943 unable to decelerate enough for the assigned exit? Is that why turning at 16knt is mentioned? Also, until they're clear of the runway, isn't the full length their's, so the other plane shouldn't have been cleared?
I'm not sure 1943 is the fault here if that's all the case. This feels more like a controller trying to save 5-10 seconds, rather than ensuring the crossing runway is clear?
Yep, I'm with you... It's not always the pilots fault. Although the controller did a fantastic job at the moment of truth, it could have been avoided all together by taking it down a notch.
Even if Amflight could have made the turn with no problem, its at the pilots discretion. The tower cleared Amflight to land. That means the entire runway belongs to Amflight. There is a specific clearance "Land and Hold Short" or LAHSO when the controller needs the aircraft to not cross an intersecting runway. I think the controller expected Amflight to make the turn short of the intersecting runway and when the pilot did not the controller's plans were screwed up.
@@jfkenney1968You’re incorrect. 7110.65AA 3-7-2 g. 2. (b) (1). The pilot read back the exit instructions properly, and did not say unable, so they’re expected to comply with what they’ve read back, giving the controller legal assurance that SWA had a clean runway for departure.
@@GG-dz8mgThanks for the clarification. You are correct, the controller did not clear SWA until the pilot read back the instructions.
Which rule or regulation tells ATC not to give taxi instructions to aircraft during their roll out? Where I work we’re told to ignore such instructions until vacating the runway is assured and we’re literally on the high speed exit. Same with being given an exit with the landing clearance. It is not mandatory.
Great job by the tower controller.
I turn now, good luck everybody else!
Pretty much how it went
Extent job ATC awesome head up
I suspect the controller might get a tap on the shoulder for this not the Ameriflight pilot.
Tower did what they were supposed to. Reading back the exit instructions means they're supposed to comply.
That is astute situational awareness and diligence in my book. Good work, ATC. I understand that he will observe some critical entry/exit on the runway, but if the graphics was correct and the plane began their turn, it's so easy to look down and turn to next order of business.
A few things to add to this discussion, looking at the chart for BUR, runway 8 does not have a land and hold short designation on the chart like runway 15 does , maybe a chart update is necessary. There may have been confusion on the controller's instructions to the amfam pilot. There was a heavy accent on the amflight pilots readback of instructions. The amflight pilot should have communicated when he could not make C-6 intersection to taxiway C. The southwest pilots had a great situational awareness of what was happening on the field and the atc controller for preventing a crash from occuring on the airfield.
No need to apologize ATC. You probably saved lives.
I thunk he was supposed to wait to give the take off clearance until the crossing traffic was both off the crossing runway and there wouldn’t be a conflict bc he is stopped. Could be wrong
@@jessemcclintock7162The takeoff clearance was good to go once they read back the exit.
Touch call on whose at fault. Contributing factor is definitely the runway configuration in use, take off an landing runways are far from the intersection maximizing runway occupancy time. Hopefully everyone walks away having learned a valuable lesson.
Hey brother, great show is always man. It's getting bad out there.
Very dangerous. Close calls too almost every day.
Just a minute, just a minute Blanche, are you trying to tell me, that I should hold?
Good to know the ATC is sharp and in control at my preferred airport ^_^
So many close calls are becoming more and more frequent. It seems inevitable that another catastrophe is around the corner.
Respect to southwest pilots🤝
Its not within the accepted procedures to give a taxi clearance to an aircraft when they’re still slowing down on the runway. They should have given the instructions as to where to vacate with the landing clearance or on first contact with the tower. This is even more critical when you’re using intersecting runways for arrivals and departures.
In, through, and beyond!
The way it should be. Something’s gone wrong, let’s figure it out. Miscommunication happens. If you recognize miscommunication before disaster, you’ve won. If you can identify the problem in a calm way, everyone wins.
I make turn now! Good luck everyone else!
Lol
for real what was that pilot thinking?? i can get maybe asking but they just asked and then just went for it! they're lucky SWA had just started their takeoff roll.
Family Guy! 🔥
Love it!
@@Reskao1 IIRC from the video where the jet ended up in the grass: you can only take the low speed exits at 10 knots. Maybe they got some under-steer at 16 knots.
No notice let's do it.
Isn't that more or less what caused the Tenerife disaster?
Amflight was cleared to land. That means the entire runway belongs to them. The tower did not issue a land and hold short clearance. Even if the tower tells the aircraft to exit at a particular taxiway, it is pilots discretion based upon his judgement if it can be executed safely.
Yup alot of people commenting need to go back to the PPL basics...
Clearance was read back....that's an acknowledgment you are going to comply.
Pilot error
@@kylehallin1695 This. Unfortunately many pilots developed a habit of reading back instructions they can't comply to. "Unable" goes a long way!
@@r.dinelli it's AMflight...I'm not expecting much. Beginner pilot company.
i’m gonna disagree, the runway was no longer his as he accepted the taxiway turnoff at C6. you can’t just noodle all day long on a runway, you get off at the first available taxiway or as directed by atc, asking to continue taxiing after another plane has been cleared for takeoff is absolutely a deviation
A true master of his craft! Whatever this man’s salary double it he’s earned it!
I know a pilot who, until a few months ago, was basically a safety officer for Ameriflight’s ESCS charter and flew Metros out of Burbank (he was a semi-regular customer at HWD). This pilot is lucky that he moved on to American, or his ass would be ripped open so wide you could use it for a hangar.
That’s pretty damn wide.
That's nothing compared to Trump's ass if he is in jail
Pretty wide … tell me more
I go into Burbank regularly and do not like going there. Controllers do a great job but tight airport, heavy traffic with lots of varied types and it's always a hot mess....
Yep, military, bizjets, rotary wing, airliners, cargo, a little GA. . . . . Pretty much everything except rocket launches.
Van Nuys is way too close. Those two should consolidate into a bigger Burbank airport
Lol
@@j134679good luck with that considering there is no room left and you would be vacating dozens of businesses or residents to do so.
that is a riot waiting to happen
@@j134679 tell us you don't know the area without telling us you don't know the area.
Top notch controller and classic great SW crew. Mistakes happen, its the people like the controller and SW crew who correct them to avoid catastrophe. BravoBravo.
I wonder what the SW pilot would tell the pax - would ‘an aircraft entered the runway as we were taking off’ scare the shit out of the passengers? Would he say something vague and ambiguous instead?
Absolutely. Just easier to say that ATC cancelled their take off clearance, we’re running a few checklists and will be on our way in 10 minutes.
I used to live in Burbank 20 years ago and the civilians hated AMF because they were check runners allowed to break curfew rules. They were also the least experienced pilot too. It looked like that was the factor here. I would be curious to see how many flight hours the AMF flight pilot had under his belt!
I was ATC there back in the early 80s and the airport has a very odd gate and taxiway layout where this occurred.
its definitely a odd layout, but the instructions were very clear and read back properly, Charlie 6 to Charlie taxi to parking.
how much more clarity can you get with that?
@@CapStar362 Yeah it's definitely not a communication error, the pilot on Amflight did start the C6 turn, but then just did what they wanted and then asked AFTER if they could, like jeez you serious Amflight crew? Now this is a theory since I'm not a pilot, but from the ending info, they tried to do correctly that C6 turn but at 16 knots, likely thought it wasn't gonna end well, so undid it last second for that other option.
I'm sure if they had just fully stopped and then afterwards asked if they could do that, they would be allowed after the Southwest departure and no pilot deviation.
@@CapStar362 Maybe they were moving to fast to make the turn
@@Tommmmas there was no maybe about it, they were at 15+ Kts, though a conflict of data is present, FR24 states 16 Knots, but ADSB indicates 24 Knots.
either way, too fast for that tiny plane.
and the track was putting them 100% into running off the taxiway side.
A flight 1943 had the runway he was not given a land and hold short rwy 15 clearance he was unable to safely stop and turn off on C6 he should of been a little quicker and told ATCT that he was unable to make C6. Southwest should not have been cleared for take off.
Just out of curiosity. Are you an air traffic controller or a commercial pilot?
Tower should have waited to give Southwest clearance until he turned into C6 since they are intersecting runways
Once the readback was given, they no longer get the whole runway.
@@nburkemdx when then have been cleared to land they have the whole runway, unless the tower said land and hold short which is never used. The tower was trying to take a shortcut and get the southwest plane to take off before the bound plane
@@a_goblue2023The Amflight read back the instruction to take C6. That is legally binding; he said he’d be clear of 15. That is then lawful for SWA to be cleared for takeoff. If Amflight didn’t say anything or said unable the controller couldn’t clear SWA for takeoff.
Southwest pilots knew well what had occurred (via. radio transmissions on the same channel and certainly wasn't the ATC's fault) and were extremely 'chill' letting the tower handle the discipline matters to come 😏.
Is it normal to give a takeoff clearance before traffic has departed the intersecting runway?
Yes. Intersecting traffic has to hold short or pass through the intersection before takeoff clearance can be given. In this case, Amflight was issued exit instructions for a taxiway before the intersection, which they accepted and readback. Since they were instructed and readback a route that doesn't involve the intersection, it's kosher. Onus was on Amflight to say unable, not to mention entering an active runway without permission.
Holy crap, that was close.
LAHSO clearances at Burbank can only be issued when landing on runway 15 right? Wasn’t an option for the Metroliner?
Wasn't
I really appreciate the controller’s “Im sorry guys”, even being arguably not in fault. Luckily it didn’t get as close as how dramatically it sounded.
For those of you that are pilots that know, I am assuming cooldown is for what? the engines that just spooled up and had to be dropped down quick? Was the checklist to check on the engines? Or was it to make sure if they had to line up and start the takeoff from the start again due to runway length?
Cooldown of the brakes.
@@marcusbadoyo3112 thank you. I wasn't sure what the cooldown was for. Now I know another thing about aviation.
I just noticed that the runway aerial view is NOT oriented with North being up. Runway 15, with the Southwest jet on it, is aligned with about 060. Am I missing something here?
The aerial view is not oriented north up. Easy
Good thing they have clean underwear dispensers at those ATC locations!
I like Burbank .. last time I was there it was a nice change from LAX. You won’t be 17th in line at BUR.
It's all well and good talking fast when it's busy but when you cancel a take off clearance due to traffic on the runway, slow the **** down and be clear and concise!
Should he give take off clearance when there is still a plane on the runway? I thought the plane cleared to land has the right to use every single inch of runway the captain feels he needs.
"I have a tower for you to call"... Phew, that could have been a horrific accident, glad to hear it was caught in time
Wouldn't be a good idea to clear Southwest for take off once the turn off was assured and exicuted? If he had steering or brake issues then no choice. Nit picking the situation but good to hear a controller with his eyes open
"can i exit at charlie?" he asks as he rolls past charlie
This reminds me of Delta 1943 near miss incident
Could’ve been closer. Swa barely moved and got off the first exit
Probably should be giving LAHSO clearances for landing if they intend on departing on an intersecting runway before a landing flight has cleared the runway
There is no LAHSO on 8-26 at KBUR. The only LAHSO is on 15.
Some quick notes. The runway the AMFlight landed on is 5,800 feet long. To get off by C6 that drops to 3,300 feet so you give up about 44% of the runways. They need 2,500 feet or so. So margin could have been tight on the landing distance needed especially if they land 300 feet past end of runway (500 feet ish). Of course, they did confirm C6, that's where the issue came I think. Maybe they got light on the brakes or just needed more or landed a bit longer?
What happened to the landing embraer? Didnt see a go around command
He landed
I hope that controller got at least a month paid leave after that. He's probably gonna have nightmares for life.
Controller violated 7110.65W 3-9-8 b. 2.
“2. A preceding arriving aircraft is clear of the landing runway, completed the landing roll and will hold short of the intersection, or has passed the intersection. (See FIG 3-9-6).”
AIM attempts to define landing roll…
“The landing process should never be considered complete until the airplane decelerates to the normal taxi speed during the landing roll or has been brought to a complete stop when clear of the landing area.”
Normal taxi speed was not obtained by AMF, as is obvious if he was doing 16 kt. when the turn at Charlie 6 was attempted. And the clearance to the departing AC was given before that happened. The controller was assuming it was going to be OK, and was on his toes about noticing and calling it. And with C6 so close to the runway intersection, this is a problem waiting to happen at KBUR. They need to improve their local training and procedures for controllers a bit if they keep wanting to cram all these aircraft into a small time and space.
7110.65W is multiple editions in the past of the .65, it’s on AA now. Regardless, the controller is in the right, as 7110.65 3-7-2 g. 2. (b) (1) addresses this exact situation.
The controller appears to have “ensure”d “verbal commitment”, but I still say that it’s possible that the controller did not follow 3-9-8 b. 2.
The controller could not use 3-9-8 b. 2. (b) because the landing roll was not complete before he issued the takeoff clearance, so he violated separation requirements. 3-9-8 b. 2. (d) might be an “out” if he “observed turning at an exit point prior to the intersection” and _then_ gave the take off clearance.
That is going to come down to tight timing review of RADAR and recordings.
And yes, it’s the AA version.
www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/atc_html/chap3_section_9.html
@@n6nlReading it again, 3-9-8 b. states the departing aircraft cannot “begin takeoff roll” until the conditions in 1. or 2. exist. The controller received that verbal assurance AMF would exit at C6, and began the transmission to SWA for takeoff, likely utilizing anticipated separation (3-9-5) that 3-9-8 b. 2 (c) would happen, with AMF being observed starting the turn at C6 as SWA began their roll. All in all, it’s an easy, legal explanation from a controller, which could only be countered by an ASDE matched up with recordings showing that there was no physical way AMF would be in the C6 turn before SWA started rolling.
This page is more for entertainment than accurate replay analysis, so we don’t have professionally timed radar replays here to audit a controller’s claim, but the situation sounds plausible, especially if BUR controllers are familiar with common aircraft positions/speeds out the window.
Except AMF read back the exit instruction instead of saying unable then the controller would had never gave the take off clearance to SWA.
I think after that, everyone here is holding. Nice one ATC
Just to be safe, I'm not even going to get up to top off my morning coffee!
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think this was an ATC error. The controller issued a “landing clearance,” not a “Land And Hold Short clearance” for the crossing runway. How was the AmFlight pilot to know there would be a 737 rolling down the crossing runway? That’s an easy one to miss on the radio when you’re in the middle of an approach. Any thoughts? Maybe I’m wrong here…
Atc instructed to turn on C6, the pilot simply decided to continue and cross the runway.
Once AmFlight reads back the instructions to exit the runway, they are expected to comply, and no longer have the full runway. Southwest was properly cleared for takeoff after the readback.
@@KingdaToro Ah, I completely missed the taxiway exit instruction. Thx! That makes more sense
@@thiagofreitas2563 Ah, I missed the taxiway exit instruction on the recording (and apparently so did he haha). But I will say, rarely does a pilot just decide to ignore an ATC instruction and do their own thing. Generally, when we don't comply with ATC, its because we either made an honest mistake, or the energy state of the AmFlight aircraft was so much so that the pilot could not safely make an exit at C6. I don't find it likely that the pilot just "decided" not to do what ATC instructed for the hell of it.
@@destroyervondarkcrucible8824 AmFlight didn't miss tower's instruction to exit, the pilot literally repeated it back. AFTER not taking the exit, the pilot simple continued toward the runway and said he was going to turn on it. This was 100% pilot error.
Not that it matters, but Southwest was going to Las Vegas and Ameriflight was coming from Santa Maria, CA.
Saw this one coming a mile away
Easy to see this when this is bot the 27th plane you clear for takeoff today already
This atc is a machine!
Help me out, is 16 knots too fast for this turn? I have no idea about taxi speeds
I did not understand what AMF1943 tried to do? You cannot exit on C at runway 8
They turn right on rwy15 and exit charlie
@@droppincodes I see. If that was really what the both pilots tried to do(which is hard to believe), then they have really really bad situation awareness. Can't believe. Two jet pilots.
The landing aircraft was not issued a land and hold short clearance. The controller here issued a take off clearance to SouthWest while an aircraft was landing unrestricted on an intersecting runway.
I think there’s plenty of fault here with the controller.
Fair point. I'm not sure when it officially turns from landing phase to taxi phase as far as ATC goes. My assumption is, they had slowed and accepted a specific exit, not right turn when able. Kind of like saying traffic in sight when on an IFR flight plan. You, the pilot, are assuming responsibility for see and avoid when you say that.
There was a restriction. Once landed, the AMF was issued a right turn at D6, which is prior to SWA’s runway, and the AMF read it back, which makes them legally responsible for turning at that exit. If they were unable to accept that turn, they should have said unable or not reply to the controller. Once they read it back, which makes them bound to accept it, SWA’s runway is clear and they can be issued a takeoff clearance. No need for LAHSO when the above procedures are used.
@@GG-dz8mg the instruction to vacate at C6 was a bullshit instruction to the landing aircraft. I take your point that it was acknowledged and accepted. There is plenty of culpability on the part of the controller here. The landing aircraft was initially cleared to land with traffic holding in position. The southwest jet should not have been cleared for take off until the landing aircraft vacated the runway.
This controller needs to slow his speech cadence down and not issue bullshit instructions in critical phases of flight( high speed on rollout).
@@coonagh1If you accept the aircraft acknowledged and read back the instruction, which makes the runway SWA is departing on clear and legal for departure, where is the culpability of the controller? The controller did nothing wrong or against the .65.
@@GG-dz8mg I’ll repeat, there is plenty of culpability on the part of the controller here. I hear the practice all the time, taxi instructions on the roll out, parking bay questions. As soon as the TOGA switches are pressed on a Go Around, they immediately want the reason. None of this stuff is time critical. Again, controller here is trying too hard to be efficient and boom, a runway incursion.
I'm flying out of Burbank on SWA in a few days. Just what I needed to see. SMH (I'm not faulting anyone here but the AMF1943 pilot)
Sounds like the same Burbank controller for the Kobe Bryant incident (N72EX)
@vasaviation, would it be possible display maps/pictures with the correct N-S orientation? Thanks
Yes
@@VASAviation Thanks.
Thank god the controller was paying attention at the right moment. How did the landing pilot miss the taxi instructions and the TO clearance given to the 737 on RWY 15?
As in many cases there is no one cause here. Air safety is all about multiple layers of protection. The incident report will likely state cause of the incident was … contributing factors were … etc.
1. Pilot should not have accepted taxiway C6 until he was sure he was able to comply. When he was unable he should have notified the controller immediately and stopped.
2. The controller should not have issued a cleared for takeoff until he is 100% sure the runway was clear, that is aircraft on intersecting runway had cleared the runway or stopped the rollout holding short.
3. If you use multiple intersecting runways at the same time you need to have very robust procedures in place and enough staff to deal with it.
4. The controller is trying to do too much in too little time. Phraseology is suffering, readability is suffering. Accidents will happen. The controller should have slowed things down in this case. You have pilots with different experience and English as a second language. The system needs to accommodate everybody safely.
In this particular case SW would have waited less than one minute longer. Instead the high pace resulted in a near miss that could have cost 100s of lives, a waiting time of 20+ min and a bunch of scared passengers. Very unnecessary in my opinion. Safety first!
Great job by ATC.
You need a cool down? I need a cool down to check there’s no brown in my pants.
Which is more safer? Intersecting or parallel RWY?
Both if involved individuals work professionally
It's a little confusing... did he want Amflight to hold? 🤔
That is what I thought he wanted. I might be wrong, but the rising volume suggests I am not. That was tense just sitting here in safety.
@@davidhandyman7571 I hear you. I held things I didn't know I could hold.
What a duncecap!!! Any weekend -flying PPL holder knows better than to cross or enter any runway without express permission!!!
What happened to the traffic landing 15 that was 2.5 miles out? Never heard from them again.
I wondered about that too!
Landing was not landing 15, he was landing 8. And he landed uneventfully after AMF cleared
The Big Stripe was pretty far out when all this happened.
Yeah, I'm surprised that landed. 2.5 miles out when the swa was cleared for TO at 130kts or just over 2 miles a minute. That's tight.
Controller did do a great job .. but it sounded like he was overworked.
Tower, Amflight 1943, can I do a thing I'm already doing?
Would be better to keep north pointing up
I don't think so
My internal representation of runways has runway 8 mostly East West, and East West is usuall left right
Well, roger to your internal representation. I decided to not use north up on this one for a few reasons