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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- Make a bad game? Volatile. Fails totally? Double down.
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#skullandbones #games #2024 - เกม
Well, good luck to them. There are so many good games to play, I can do just fine without Warner Bros AAA-slop.
Wait 'til they release their AAAA slop.
Stop calling it triple A. It’s just corporate shovelware at this point.
@@thatHARVguy Can't wait for the batman game where you don't get out of the batmobile and catching bad guys is a QTE while you park and put the hazard lights on.
@@lordhighwind6230they are AAA companies makin games so y can't it be AAA slop? Sounds fine to me.
@@MisterNightfish Noice, a game without gameplay is still a game lol That's the world we have lived in for some time. My view is this; there is still a very good gaming industry in amongst the mess that's the overall gaming industry. There have always been a lot of bad games published, wherever there are large amounts of money to be made there will always be bad 'players' in the mix.
Suit #1: "Hey, we broke records on our single player game, but didn't make money on our two live service games, what should we do?"
Suit #2: "We need to make another live service game."
This shit cannot be made up lmao, I won't be surprised when WB Games is the next studio to close down
By “suit” do you mean people that make so much more than you’ll ever earn? Is that why you’re mad 😂😂
@jmax8692 is that not a good reason to be mad? A person who never has to risk being hungry or cold can make poor business decisions and not be fiscally responsible but still earn more in a year than you will in a lifetime. Is that not concerning?
@@jmax8692
And yet with all the money they make they don't understand why their audience that made their single player game the best selling game of 2023 is not buying their live service games
"Just throw another one!"
"I'm sure the next will stick! Or you're fired peon.
They think just cause their SP game did well, we'll automatically by what ever poop they dump out next.
Now, here's a fucking crazy idea, you can lock me up after hearing it.
What if, and just what if, you make smaller games that cost less?
And reduce margins on sales?
They could make the exact same games for a fraction of the price if they knew how to actually develop games. Most of their budget gets wasted on marketing and other unimportant things. Their studios are incredibly bloated and mostly consist of new hires that have absolutely no idea what they are doing. Just look at indie developers for example. Hell divers would have probably cost these triple a studios $150 million to develop lol
They could hire a ton of people and then fire them just before the profit report to investors. If they just kept making smaller games, they would actually have to keep people or even hire more. Not good on the stock price!
But its such a great AAAA game. It has so much content. Players should be thankful they can play these for just $70 only.
/J
@@john_m3619marketing is absolutely vital regardless of what most gamers believe. Making good games first and foremost would be better but there's zero point in making it if no one knows it exists, or what it is or does.
Man, I fucked off into indie space so long ago that I would have forgotten that there is a metric fuck ton of AAA slop where 99% of games aren't even worth to look up the trailer
Done that since 2013 and it is finally catching up to main stream. After playing the same Triple A game that is the same as the previous 3 games, you get bored. Better play something fun rather than a boring Copy/Paste game with a Garbage collection "side quests"
@@1Piecer
Jupp i don't even know how long it was exactly since i did this but it was a long time ago but at least since i first started building my own PC's myself which was in 2016 so at least since 2016 in my case
@@BlogingLPIve been with you two starting in 2015, Triple A or "Quadruple A" Games are such slop.
HEADLINE: WB Games finds out that trying to push shitty f2p mobile games on console and charging a premium leads to backlash and decides to not even try anymore
Something that I'm finding right now is that game releases that interest me just aren't stopping. It's one, after another, after another, endlessly. Live Service games require a time commitment that better and more worthwhile singleplayer experiences have already completely spoken for. I've been thinking of trying Helldivers 2, which is pretty much the only Live Service game in recent memory I've been interested in checking out, but I'm so totally snowed under by all the other stuff coming out that I don't know when that'll actually happen. Live Service games thrive when they're able to monopolize a person's time, I've played big MMO's, I know that to be completely true. But in a landscape where a constant stream of bangers release endlessly, who in the actual fuck wants to commit to a live service time sink?
VR is terrific for flight sims and driving sims or games where you stand still. Running around can still be a brutal experience.
I look forward to seeing them compete with anime waifu fanservice games on mobile. It's gonna be a slaughter.
hahaha a western game dev trying to compete in the waifu gacha space. It'd make them break out in hives they should just stick to sports games
My issue, being in the industry is "live service" translates to "let's basically sweatshoppe our devs". At the best of times the hours are unreasonable as you have to upkeep a title basically 24/7 there's no "break" period in the already insane development cycle. At the worst you have half a studio leaving because they burn out
A CEO is a person that can look at a barely functioning system and take all the wrong lessons from it.
....But the chart says....
The larger any bureaucratic system gets, the more it favors people who focus on the bureaucratic infighting game itself rather than whatever work the bureaucracy is supposed to be managing. I'm sure he's very skilled at navigating "cocktail party politics" with his investors and boosters.
Let's all laugh at an industry that never learns anything tee hee hee.
If they double down on live service games more people are gonna double down on not playing them. It just sucks that they're probably gonna end up taking NRS with them when they inevitably go down the drain.
Not the first time that Mortal Kombat was attached to a sinking ship, just ask Midway. Considering that we've never had a good MK game since 9, it's probably for the best to simply put the franchise out of it's misery. Though the worst-case scenario is that David Zaslav turns around and declares that the franchise is a tax write-off, so no more MK ever.
Problem with live services is that, unless there's a big focus on multiplayer, having a handful of players who spend thousands on the game is better than having a thousand players buying the game once...
A handful of people are enough to make it more profitable for companies to make live services that cater to them than trying to make games lots of people will love.
@@TheCrimsonElite666plenty of people would disagree with that sentiment, as X is quite beloved
McDonalds sandwiches are also beloved by millions. Doesn't mean it iant crap.
Really need to start using something other than the word micro transaction for in game spending as most of it isn't 'micro' any more.
And nothing of value was lost ..or gained 🤔
It's almost hard to blame studios for being forced to do these. They're nearly always money-sinks and failure is just part of the culture, simply because the risk/reward is too tempting.
You might make a game that dies in its first year. Or you might make fortnite. Greed is a bitch and a half.
A Harry Potter based MMO would be interesting. But the quandary would, do you base it around Hogwarts or as an adult. I'd say as an adult would be best, you could have 2 factions, etc, and actual death dealing combat.
Wow, good luck, they did a great job on Howart's Legacy but if that was a live service I would not have bought it.
They did a decent job, but still basically just made an ubisoft game with a Harry Potter coat of paint.
It needed a lot less random combat and busywork, and a lot more gameplay relevant to the setting and series.
Mechanically, it was generic. The game was better than mid in superficial elements that can be tacked in like using an established IP and having pretty graphics.
The AAA space is going so far down the shitter that "doesn't have any terrible fails" is being confused for "the game is good".
I'm convinced it's a scam. Not for players but for investors, people that never played videogames and don't care about them. Announce more live service bullshit, show numbers of the few LS that make money, investors dump more money, stock price go up, CEOs dump shares, and make money.
It's sad that the hands off, creative space provided formerly (imperfect as it was) by financiers to established players in game development has fallen away to leave us with a series of templates that AAA (AAAA+?) must conform to and, in many cases, contort themselves to chase the latest craze in Skinner Box "fun". And then you get the absurd events and, even worse, shallow crossovers to keep the dopamine edge.
"AAA" nowadays is what the devs are screaming constantly.
I never understood why there also isn’t an Avatar the last airbender mmo. That could be amazing
Easy answer. Outside of WoW, how many MMO success stories have come out of the last 15 years? Only ones I can think of are the Old Republic and RuneScape.
It's funny how all the AAA companies don't take the failure of Live services as a sign. Whenever a single player flops or sells poorly they just shut down the studios and declare "nobody wants to play single player games anymore" but whenever a live service fails (and those fail sooooooo fast) they just think "well, the next one will do better".
Fun Fact - Starcraft 2 Wings of Liberty, the massively successful RTS game that basically revived the genre, made less money for Blizzard than a single premium WoW Horse cosmetic.
And we wonder why microtransactions are being so pushed. Its because they make way way way more money than any other gaming business model. Like its not even close.
If that's true, you can't blame them for whale hunting because they're apparently a lot more whales in the ocean than I thought
Just in time for pretty much the entire world to be cutting back on entertainment purchases because the cost of living compared with average income is sky rocketing. Genius.
No one has EVER been able to figure out how to make viable VR gaming since the early nineties. When we have been perpetually 'on the verge' of VR becoming the next big thing in gaming for the last 30 something years that's telling. I'm not saying it CAN'T be done. Of course it's possible. But it's harder then these companies think.
WB has so many amazing IPs under their belt yet they make the most braindead decisions
I'm so glad they're focusing on what is generally a worse monetization model for the consumer. I can't imagine a world in which WB has a slightly less consistent revenue stream. Please think of the massive corporations.
I have no faith that a Game of Thrones game would be any better than the last season.
Crusader Kings in the best GOT game I've played
That "virtual worlds" and VR thing can be a slippery slope into metaverse and NFTs, I felt a slight shiver run down my spine during that part. One can only hope that most have learned the lesson. But maybe we "fun first" gamers only won one battle in a long war there.
They could actually improve Hogwarts Legacy quite a bit. There was no relationship building, no stakes or penalties for house points, no factions of any kind, no morality system for learning/using dark magic, and no quidditch. Keeping the bones they built and adding in these things along with some kind of multiplayer element a la Elden Ring where you could summon in a friend and also see other real players roaming the grounds and castle could make for a great sequel. As long as they don’t let it devolve into live service slop selling pay to win brooms, wands, etc like they easily could.
Let them. I'll double down on not purchasing garbage.
Gamers hate the term "live service" games because the release of a lot of broken games without enough content were justified because they were "live services" that would improuve over time. And after the game didn't reach its revenue goals, the game was abandoned, screwing the people who hoped for a redemption and those who saw it as a red flag felt validated.
Real live service games need a lot of people working on them and a big financial committent by the studio. Naughty Dog recently dropped their live service project because they realized how much they had to commit to one single game.
The lore is already complete for GOT its just implementing the gameplay and the internal systems.
All the research and world building is already done. Just goes to show the big companies have no vision, they only look at the next quarter, line go up.
love the youtube:
video 1:"live services are killing the gaming industry"
video 2:"how helldivers 2 is saving the gaming industry"
Everyone just gives helldivers a pass, and big companies will continue to learn the wrong lessons from it.
@@Ghostshadow112 The main lesson to learn from Helldivers is just make an actually good game, don't smother it with dogshit monetization, and people will play it.
I have an uncle who worked for a major Hollywood film studio. It’s the same thing there. It’s run by suits who don’t understand the industry they’re in so they end up chasing trends. It’s easy to see that Madame Web is going to be a flop. It’s easy to see that yet another live service game will flop.
"They wont give us (the amount of) money (we want)to make good games, from the bad games we make. So, we will make shit games and then gaslight them into thinking its their fault we dont make enough money to make good games. Save cash and dont spend it on $100M games that die in two months? Nah, I like the gaslight option"
It’s not enough to make some money or a lot of money. Unless a game makes all the money they don’t care. Unless it makes literally every penny it possibly can they’re not satisfied.
I'm so glad I have never touched a live service game and cringe when people start talking about "End game content" (or: "we haven't updated the main game in 3 years but we need to keep our whales content")
I play games a lot, but not a lot of games. Like Starcraft, Rocket League and Counterstrike. A thousand hours is the FLOOR. Who wants a game that's over after 50 hours?!
@@7heHorror exactly, like I have one game where I have like 1000 hours (a bunch of hours are "game is on in the background") but I am totally sick of it now. I can't play one game for longer than 3 months max, then I get the itch to switch. If I need to play 100 hours befors I get to the most recently updated gameplay, I'll be wanting to quit before I get there.
I'm only here for the cat content.
The dumb thing is it's not like Warner Bros don't know about making a single experience that most people don't constantly engage with. Its literally what movies are. They've been doing it for a long time. Im not sure why gamed are that different.
I am not sure live services are necessarily more profitable they seem to be way more expensive to make and then their is maintenance and most struggle to retain the players.
I think live service is just a repeat of the mmo gold rush and there is a reason why thats not a thing anymore
There have been some WB games I've seen on game of thrones, sadly tho its just full P2W mobile slop. Like insanely bad p2w, one of the games was those portrait army/town games where u swipe for troops and when you lose the troops they are gone for good. an MMO or even single player RPG style game set in the GoT Universe if done well would be one of the best RPG games probably Witcher 3 level, since its so easy to build on it as you have all the lore you need, an expansive world already set and an underlying story to expand upon + the IP which will draw players. I dunno what these suits do all day just sleeping on these IPs.
I'm going to skip every Sweet baby stink game.
Live service isn’t inherently bad. But it sure seems like a poison pill for so many games because it’s reduced to being a money grab.
I’m genuinely curious what you think a good live service game is?
Never bought anything extra, but Sims 3 constantly trying to make me spend more money even though I already paid a lot of money to get the base game and additions was so annoying. I just wanted to have fun. Not get the little money I had squeezed out of me. People are not THAT dumb. They realize when you try to steal from them.
@@karlpilkingtonspilko-pants3287 I'm so curious too.
Only Live Service game I've spent any time on is Destiny 2 and you could literally feel the store/constant money grabs eat the game itself. Even aside from the money grubbing the drip feed of the dlc/season pass was crazy since you couldn't treat it as a traditional game unless you waited a much later date than the launch date for each release (where content sticks around in chunks and is timed to be vaulted). Quests designed to make you run in circles as content.
@@karlpilkingtonspilko-pants3287 Helldivers 2 is fantastic
Aside from VR having more minigames than actual games, it's also just still cost prohibitive. We're in a bad economic situation, we can't really afford tech like that when the games on it aren't up to par with the games we can get on a console that is cheaper.
Disco Warner Bros making bad decisions? [pretends to be shocked]
How is WB doing these days? Not that different than Web3. Great, that is.
in regards to game of thrones. they are making ludicrous amounts of money of the game. But its a mobile game. It is more live service, than most live service games
"It's almost impossible to find someone who hasn't watched Game of Thrones"
Me: Allow me to introduce myself...
That whole VR thing is silly. They should really work on motion control first. We know those camera games kind of flopped but the Wii was pretty successful.
It's fine for a company to be self serving, obviously they are going to try to make as much money as they can. I feel like they fail because while doing so they stopped trying to serve the customers any kind of value. You can do both, have live service and cash shops but still put enough time and effort in to provide a reasonable value to us.
9:57 It would have everything... except a writer... the fucker should really release that fucking book.
"The market is volatile" uh... Have they ever looked on the top 10 steam games? Have they looked at Nintendo games?
Like, most gameson the top have been on a solid position for years now. Why? Because they are good.
The market is volitile if you make a piece of shit game.
Can't stand these games that want me to keep forking over cash. I was playing Warframe for a couple months, the gameplay wasn't fun anymore but I kept grinding anyway, I quit bc I had grinded for an entire week to craft this thing that's required to continue the story, and the mission that required it was so boring and halfassed that I completely dropped the game
I would argue that no one liked Hogwart's Legacy. Sure it sold a lot of copies but after release it was barely discussed in various social circles. Heck, people are more likely to have a round table on how they don't like Diablo 4 than talk at all about Hogwart's Legacy.
I support their decision.
I think the last WB game I got was...was it 2011 that the MK time travel reboot happen? That was the last WB game I bought. I don't give them my money anymore so it's not like I have a right to tell them what to do or not do when I won't be buying any of their stuff anymore.
It's sad that they could have decided to make a story based single player Mortal Kombat but are doing live service trash instead.
It's a common thing asked for MK and IIRC Ed Boon talked about wanting to do something like that a while ago
VR will likely never be cheap or comforte enough to take market share from the rest of the industry.
One of hits vs constant income - I can see the appeal. Both have risk, but if the live service one pays off, its profits for much longer.
If a game has a battle pass, in game cash shop or is anything resembling a free to play game, I instantly pass.
I have no time or tolerance for these pseudo-games.
Same here, when overwatch 2 switched to a battle pass system I immediately dropped it
Completely depends on implementation but for the most part it’s done in a shit way. Understandable.
Missing out on poe
I liked the GoT games by Telltale and Cyanide Games quite a lot, although the former had some super heavy fanservice plot armor characters that made your own struggles in it predictably fruitless from the start. I wish the one by Cyanide Games would have gained more attention, it was a bit rough around the edges I guesss but fun and fairly epic and well-written if you ask me.
Please stop using the term "microtransaction", there's nothing MICRO about paying $40+ for a skin. These are MACROtransactions and we should call them that!
Micro
They increase the lenght of games, just by putting in a million things to collect. Over ½ the content in games now, is just collecting things. They could easily reduce the amount. It reduces the enjoyment. I know i could just not do it. But they add it in, because we collect them
They mean volatile for shareholders. One off box prices are hard to bank on as an investor.
Reminder live service games aren’t the problem gamers throwing their money at objectively bad games is the problem. Helldivers 2 proves this
I am confused why they talk about Hogwarts Legacy in relation to Suicide Squad not doing so hot. Last I heard Suicide Squad was a mutliplayer game, no? So they can't really say "single player games are volatile" when comparing a single player game to another that was built with multiplayer at its core.
If they just made another proper batman arkham game instead of the trash heap that is SSKtJL, i think they would of made this years GOTY and lots of money.
But that requires to do an actual work to produce good content. Why do that than try yet another cash grab.
Honestly right now there is so many good games, for less money, from smaller studios, with actually new and interesting ideas, with just a core understanding of what a fun game is. I'm quite happy to sit back and watch these "AAA" studios make self destructive move, after self destructive move.
I'm pretty volatile.
There is still a very good gaming industry in amongst the mess that's the overall gaming industry. There have always been a lot of bad games published, wherever there are large amounts of money to be made there will always be bad 'players' in the mix.
the problem with live services is that these big studios think they can make live services like they make singleplayer games. they don't understand that live services take commitment, and are perpetually in development until they inevitably shut down
it isn't an issue throwing more money will solve, it's by design
Yes live service can make a lot of money, but it is also a lot harder to make a successful one.
A singleplayer game does not compete with other singleplayer games.
A live service games compete with other live service games for your attention. Also there is the time you invested in your current game so it's even harder to pull players.
A mediocre singleplayer game can still sell well. For a live service to succeed mediocre is not good enough. It has to be very good at something.
a singleplayer game absolutely CAN compete with other singleplayer games because money arent infinite.
Reminder that unlike most jobs there is zero required qualifications to be an executive. We do not live in any sort of meritocracy, and most of the people in charge of the economy are malicious, moronic, or both.
Have we reached a point where the technology has matured and now the story has atrophied? The art has been lost. The graphics are plateauing and are very expensive but are the games fun to play?
yep, better take SBI with them and feck off into mobile space.
What is SBI?
@@ndh06 sweet baby inc. a woke consulting company for bad writing and the message. helping to ruin game studios and making tripple A even worse. modern gaming and so on.
@@Tantalos79 what has it got to do with the video?
@@ndh06 you know why everyone hates sushi squad? and why it failed?
@Tantalos79 it was an always online looter shooter grindfest in a market saturated with competition. A lot of the hype leading up to its release was people being concerned that it was going to be a microtransaction mess. Its servers failed to allow people who paid extra to play the game early to play the game early. But I'm assuming we're here to talk about how they treated Batman.
Fallout set is awesome. I will definitely check out that box opening!
The difference between making single player games and live services is that when WB makes a single player game they make a billion dollars and when they make a live service game it gets shut down. Their ultimate goal, obviously is to not get to the point where they actually release the game - rather they will shut it down with the day1 patch and then write its cost off their taxes.
i NEED that david cage star wars game now
I think it was Asmongold explained this pretty well. Live service games aren't inherently bad games, but each gamer only has time for 1 live service game. So unless your new live service game is going to be good enough to steal the players from other live service games your game will fail (and if it is good enough the other live services then fail).
Im one of the few ppl who didnt watch GoT just bc i couldnt be bothered watchin tv shows at that point so i wasnt disappointed when it went to shit but i agree that games in the setting sound awesome n might convince me to read the books.
There is actually a Crusader Kings 3 GOT Mod, the problem is that it becomes fairly obvious why it doesn't actually works really soon. GRRM can only write complex plots because a lot of actions have an impact and he remembers these things. The AI is not that good. Suddenly characters just don't care about things they should care about and it stops to make sense.
How has there not been more of a push for ASoIaF games??
Have you... SEEN... season 8?
But Kira, there is a Game of Thrones game out there... It's called Chronicles of Elyria!
Thank goodness. The faster they close the faster game quality improves.
Maybe if they add new characters for free or new explorable levels they will save the game .Or add create a moldable feature.
I stopped buying WB games long ago, wished more people would do the same and boycott with their wallets.
Season 8 torpedoed GoT's relevance from the cultural zeitgeist. I'm not shocked at all they haven't tried to make a related game since then.
TrackIR + ultra wide > VR any day of the week
I think the reason nobody on top is pushing for GoT games is that they don't understand the value of the property. They just got it with HBO or something, and it looks like it was good for a while, but people got tired of it and that's why the last season was review bombed. They can't understand the quality.. I've seen people like that, all they understand is money.
I don't get the managers in these companies. Like, you can make games the your audience will like and gladly give you money for it and then they just do the exact opposite 😂
If these AAA studios have such a hard time even making regular video games, how could they even fathom making anything for VR
Why do they do anything they do? Money, always money. There are no values, no more morals, just all consuming greed.
Seeing these, I have to ask game developers and especially hollywood :
Do you people not get tired of loosing money ? Of loosing your prestige and immage brand ?
losing
Every single thing I’ve learned about ‘Game of Thrones’ I’ve learned by cultural osmosis & against my will.
ha i saw this and just thought why.... they've clearly got no idea what they are doing
Warners release the longest suicide note in history.
Whats so volatile about the games market? Make a good game = it sells.
Make a bad game = Mobile Sloppers eat it up and you make money anyway or it gets made fun of and you just lost 90% of your investment.
If game companies actually hired gamers this wouldnt be that hard.
Make games you yourself would want to play.
Noone believes ubisoft people actually want to play ubisoft games. Cause noone does.
Do you think their CEO wants to play a game you have to pay to skip all the intentionally included crap parts?
I dont think anyone making decisions there plays games at all tbh.
And thats the problem.
Hire gamers, make good games, less volatile, presto.
This part of the industry might change if investors themselves stopped listening to quadruple - A CEOs and started watching videos from creators and streamers like Kira.
Now I'm starting to believe they purposedly bothced Suicide Squad just so that they could push this narrative on their next investor meeting.
I predict V.R. headsets will NEVER be the number one interface. We are real not movie characters. Holograms will be the next neat "interface" I think.
Projected holograms within a medium or free floating realworld AR?
I have a VR headset and I enjoy it a lot, mostly beat saber and hotdogs, horshoes and hand grenades. HOWEVER, even as someone who likes VR it will never become the norm in terms of interfacing with digital media or the internet in general. It's a pain to set up, motion sickness can become an issue depending on the person, and honestly it's a lot faster clicking through webpages on a screen than it is to go through VR interfaces with a somewhat imprecise pointer. I think VR is great for certain gaming experiences, but companies trying to push it as a replacement for laptops, phones, and zoom calls is just insane.
They are leaning into f2p and those sorts of live service things because it's going to net them more money. You guys can argue otherwise but you'd be wrong.
Half-Life Alyx was the best VR game I've played so far and even that struggled despite being canon in Half-Life lore. Don't regret buying that though
I could genuinely see a Harry Potter card battle game being incredibly successful tbh
Meanwhile Rev made a vid on the backlash against Sweet Baby Inc.