What was bizzare and poorly thought out in Elogium is that if the species can only have a single child at one point in their lives, the species would become extinct after not so many generations.
@@Lordrocky24 Even if their chance of twins was 100% that's only population maintenance levels of reproduction, an Ocompa brains itself walking downstairs and the population will never recover. You could increase the population with a really high chance of twins and a disproportionate number of females but then you'll run into interbreeding issues.
You could make an entire top ten WTF list from events in "Threshold" alone. Neelix helps design the Warp 10 shuttle. Tom goes Warp 10. Tom dies. Tom comes back. Tom pulls out his tongue. Tom kidnaps Janeway. The Doctor's explanation of what happened to Tom. Tom and Janeway are now salamanders. BABY salamanders. Tom and Janeway get turned back like nothing happened.
@@katygillespie8 Yeah, they abandoned BABIES on an uncharted planet, without their parents. Who DOES that? Of course, my theory is they tried to capture them, but the stun setting phaser killed one, another was eaten by a larger creature while they were chasing it, and the last escaped into a bog and they couldn't find it and finally gave up.
Always thought they could have made a copy of Tuvix in the buffer and brought back Neelix and Tuvok as well as allowed Tuvix to live as an individual. The actor that played the part of Tuvix did an excellent job representing that character.
I mean, they could just copy people that way ad infinitum. Given how often it's happened, you'd think the Federation would have figured that out by now.
Given it happened accidently to William T Riker and W Thomas Riker, it could certainly happen on purpose. Tuvix didn't have the combined mass of Tuvok and Nelix, so the extra matter required to reconstitute them both came from somewhere. One could reduce the notion of a transporter down to a scanner digitizing a document, wirelessly transmitting the document, and printing the document. As long as the printer has paper and ink, you could replicate the document ad infinitum. There is already a massive philosophical debate about whether transporters are mass murder devices and/or whether the rematerialized "you" is actually the same "you" as the dematerialized "you".
That's almost certainly what would have happened in "Twovix" if T'Illups hasn't gone rogue. If I have one complaint about _Lower Decks,_ it's that the Cerritos crew's -genre awareness- basic common sense makes every other crew look like idiots.
@@TheTrueSCU This question is basically the plot of The Prestige. It doesn't have an answer. Essentially it's like falling asleep and waking up. You could die every night and be reborn every morning, and wouldn't know it. Existentially terrifying, but doesn't actually affect your life.
They sort of retconned Braxton in the episode “Relativity”, where it’s revealed that he did indeed retain memory of the events on Earth. He went through intense therapy but then later went crazy and tried to destroy Voyager again.
Course Oblivion was a bigger WTF moment than most of these. We learn that the ship and crew we are following are all duplicates and they all die without getting to share their existence with anyone. There was also that moment in "Distant Origin" when Voyager was transported inside a massive Dinosaur ship. And let's not forget Janeway meeting "the devil" in "Coda". Those were some of the biggest jaw dropping moments in VOY.
Yeah, kinda surprised they never mentioned the Oblivion one. Was certainly one of the most WTF!? moments for me. In a good way. It's stuck with me. One of the most memorable things.
To be fair, Chief O'Brien also met a similar fate. The original died in an alternate future and his parallel self came back to the present. Also, it's debatable which ship was technically the original. After all, only the undamaged Voyager was reachable by the Vidians. Were they the original or the copy? Does it matter? After all, events such as the Year of Hell or Voyager crashing into an ice planet muddy the waters even more. Remember the episode where Tom and Captain Janeway got sent back in time to before a cataclysmic event only to find that the crew trying to rescue them caused the disaster in the first place? Theoretically, that Janeway and Paris are still on that planet because stopping their rescue prevented the cataclysm, cutting them off from their timeline and leaving them stranded. (Alternate timelines must persist so that any information that changes the past can still exist once the flow of time is altered. See Kelvin Timeline/Universe not erasing the continuing Prime Timeline/Universe as evidence.)
Hot take: "Threshold" is good, actually. Well, maybe not _good_ but certainly not bad. The salamanders were actually pretty cute, and everything leading up to the flight was really well done (I love that Neelix solved the final piece). As for the "evolution" thing-yeah, at best they're portraying Lamarckism, but _Star Trek_ has committed that gaffe at least three other times (off the top of my head).
There's also the episode where the ship ends up caught up in that distortion thing and people are walking around seemingly moving deck to deck without leaving the corridor they were in because the ship was supposedly all twisted and contorted, but, yeah, everything looked perfectly straight and in line internally, of course... :P
There should be multiple parts of this. So many WTf moments from that show. Chakotay's spirit possessing people to fight Tuvok, the "Twisted" episode, Shattered, the Doctor uploading himself onto 7of9 and used her body to seduce an alien woman, Lon Suder's entire arc, that Vidiian who stole a Starfleet officer's face so that B'ellana's Klingon half would like him, B'ellana's travel to Sto'vo'kor, the Doctor's holographic daughter dying, Seska raping Chakotay to get pregnant, Kim dying multiple times, Tom Paris gets sexual with a shuttle. The list is STACKED!
Living Witness. We get a sorta mirror-universe version of "Warship Voyager" and everyone is a cackling caricature villain. The Haunting of Deck Twelve. Neelix tells a ghost story to the Borg children. Dreadnought. B'Elanna bonds with a sentient suicide bomb. The Thaw. A holographic evil clown is somehow the scariest fucking thing Trek has ever devised, next to hologram Janeway of course. Macrocosm. Giant virus blobs try to eat everyone. Distant Origin. Dinosaurs from Earth somehow went to another planet and became lizard-people, but evolution is a LIE. Message in A Bottle. The Doctor and The Doctor (but much more gay) defeat Romulan warbirds by pressing buttons randomly, and it's hilarious. Timeless. Not so much WTF but this should have been a goddamn movie goddamn it why didn't we ever get Voyager movies? Bride of Chaotica. Did you enjoy the silly Captain Proton parts of other episodes? Here's a treat for you! Warhead. A sentient suicide bomb- wait, didn't we do this already?? Tsunkatse. Do you want to see Seven of Nine do MMA? Here's a treat for you! Drive. Hey, did you like that one Outlaw Star episode where the crew enter a Space Race? Yeah we just stole that plot entirely... Let's not even talk about Endgame holy shit let's not.
"Alice", the episode with a Christine ripoff shuttle had an interesting premise, but falls flat because we never learn how the shuttle saw a particle fountain as home.
the plan was always for the away team to be assimilated, Chakotay saying "so far so good" at the end of part 1 after being told their lifesigns were fluctuating
"Blink of an Eye" was my favorite episode of Star Trek Voyager. It was the first episode I ever saw as a kid and got me back into Star Trek. My father had watched TNG with me when I was a baby, but I didn't rediscover Trek until the Voyager era.
To name a few Organ stealing, Nazi’s, Amelia Earhart, mind control by a shuttle, mind control by aliens (multiple times), time travel(multiple times), characters supposedly dying (multiple times) and Seven of Nine with Chakotay.
I maintain Janeway did NOT murder Tuvix. While the Neelix half begged for mercy and to live. The Tuvok side knew that the needs of many outweighed the needs of the few or the one. And so Tuvok approved of Janeway turning them back as they could not juggle two very different jobs on board as one being. And having no ability to gain more crew. The divide was necessary
Yes exactly. Janeway also considered the fact that leaving Tuvix alive would mean taking away Tuvok from his family. I completely agree with Janeway's decision.
Tuvok would understand the reason for being separated from Nelix afteral it was Spock that said "The needs of the many out weight the needs of the few, or the one"
It was 100% the right decision. As far as I'm concerned, "Tuvix" was only ever a side effect of the medical condition Tuvok and Neelix were suffering from. She cured them.
Nah I agree, not a good option maybe but the best one available. From a pragmatic perspective on ship where replacement crew aren’t an option two people are better than one and from and from a more human perspective Tuvok and Nelix had established life’s and families and people who cared about them, Tuvix was never meant to be and never really had a chance to live on develop more than acquaintances really.
not at all. Tuvok was important for the function of the ship and the emotional stability of Janeway. Tuvix could not fill the gap. She needed to do this. Sometimes you have to do the wrong thing for the right reasons.
What "Threshold" proved is that a warp drive cannot be converted into an Infinite Improbability Drive, at least not without a Bambleweeny 57 Sub-Meson Brain hooked up to a good strong cup of tea.
Unfortunately the replicator cannot produce a good strong cup of tea. It can only produce tea, Earl Grey, hot (which is piss) or a beverage that is almost totally, but not quite, entirely unlike tea.
The biggest WTF moment was before and after, it gave off the same vibe as the Goosebumps episode the Coo Coo Clock of Doom. The conscience jumping is the same in both episodes and the movie but in the latter the main character deleted his sister from existence and not putting the year she was born back on the clock.
@@Firepuma27 Then it was poetic justice. And an awesome preteen fantasy, too: make your obnoxious younger sister disappear. It does raise some existential questions, though... if that year was erased from history, did everyone just get a little younger?
"Blink of an Eye" is one of my favorite episodes, I've been wishing to know if the Kelemane's species developed technologically enough to leave their planet.
At the end of that episode I seem to remember the Kelemane sending ships up to pull Voyager away from the planet, so at least they had started to develop that tech.
What about the episode where the Doctor had a holographic family and experienced the loss of a child and The Year of Hell? Both epic and unique episodes.
Janeway was right about Tuvix, you cannot sacrifice 2 people to save just one, morally Janeway did the right thing on killing one person to save two...
No mention of Course:Oblivion, where a pool of weird liquid encountered in a previous episode formed a perfect copy of the entirety of Voyager, its contents, and its crew. The ship and crew began to degrade at a rapid rate, and its only about halfway through that they and the audience finds out what's going on that they are all just copies. Ultimately, the copy crew all died horribly and the ship exploded before they could get back to their home planet. The worst part? A buoy intended to tell their story was attempted to be launched toward the real Voyager as it came close, but failed so no trace of them was ever found. A weird premise to be sure, but a tear-jerked and asks the classic persistent Trek question "what is the measure of a man?"
"Threshold" really was an episode that leaves many MANY questions unanswered, as well as leaves the viewers shaking their collective heads. The Picard face-palm meme comes to mind repeatedly during this episode as well. At least for me, anyway 🤦♂️
5:55 Wasn't their assimilation something that they'd planned on in the first place? Also, Janeway, that's an insanely stupid move. Don't you remember what happened to Picard? The Borg got all sorts of tasty tactical knowledge out of him. And just two seasons ago, you found the Borg's holy grail in Omega particles. Tuvok's anti-assimilation gubbins started to fail. Seems highly likely that the Borg now know about all he knew, and now they know not only does your crew have in-depth knowledge about it, the Borg know the star system where someone came very, very close to engineering it. Thanks Janeway, not only did you condemn them to a slow death by removing their energy supply, they're probably all now getting Mechano bolted onto their skulls.
That one episode where everyone starts having headaches and the emh shrinks but after they're in the clear the emh is still the size of a child's doll, that visual effect was ground breaking at the time and the technique was used in making some sequences in Devil May Cry 5 where V climbs on top of Urizen
If Torres, Janeway and Tuvok were all assimilated with current Borg methods, wouldn't they all permanently produce nanoprobes after being freed, just like Seven does?
They weren't assimilated for long enough. Kinda the same handwaving as what happened with Picard. Except they also conveniently didn't get any PTSD from it.
@Yonkage-ik5qb I always figured that in BOBW, they weren't using nanoprobes yet, just larger machine parts to get the job done. They probably started using them before First Contact. I'm always amazed how far us fans go to cover up a bit of lazy writing
I literally just watched “Threshold” yesterday, lol. I’m rewatching the whole run and that was the episode I watched before bed. I had forgotten the babies and that Janeway may have “initiated” things lol. When TNG came out I remember being so excited then came DS9 and Voyager, from the late 80’s to early aughts really was the golden era of the Trek. Don’t misunderstand, Discovery, Lower Decks, Prodigy, and now Strange New Worlds along with the Kelvin Trek are awesome and I greatly enjoy those shows but for me there is just something about TNG, DS9, and Voyager that makes those shows the best of the Trek. Threshold on the other hand is also representative of something that happened quite a bit back then, which is when you have to come up with what turned out to be what a couple thousand episodes between the series your gonna end up with some rather interesting ones but this whole “warp 10 hyper-evolves one into a salamander” is truly bonkers for so many reasons but the problem I always had and was reminded of is this, did anyone else feel like it was regression instead of evolution? I remember watching that episode and thinking, why would we “evolve” backwards? Oh well, there are many fun episodes all throughout Star Trek even back to TOS. Anybody want a Tribble?
There was a TNG episode where people started to evolve backwards, too. It had literally no rhyme or reason to it, with people turning into completely random species and even sizes. Like Barclay became a human-sized spider, but Crusher just turned into a normal iguana.
@@Yonkage-ik5qb that’s right, I had forgotten all about that, lol. Reading your comment I remembered when I first saw that episode (when TNG premiered I watched from premiere to end every week, without fail lol) being afraid of Worf because of what he regressed into, lol.
Considering how the writers claimed Warp 10 works (the whole every-point-in-the-universe thing), I was personally surprised and dismayed that no one tried to figure out what the improbability was for the passenger's evolution to accelerate in that way, twice, the same way for both.
I love how Robert Picardo's book told from the EMH's pov goes into detail about how his life on the planet went. How she'd gotten pregnant by a wealthy man who wasn't treating her right and so they lied and said he was the boy's father and they were raising him themselves.
I wonder why Voyager didn't even consider traveling at relativistic speeds without a warp bubble from 20th century earth to a nearby star and back, it would be a very short time for the crew but centuries for everyone else.
@@Voltaic_Fire Sorry, I did read that wrong, in my head I assumed you wanted them to travel at relativistic speed from their start point in the Delta quadrant which would be 70000 years.... yours make more sense
Expanded material says that while there is only one fertile period, MULTILPLES (you know twins and so on) are common among their species, helping keep the species at a viable population.
Why do you TrekCulture folks keep calling correcting a Transporter glitch into murder? So you are saying that the Transporter Accident that left James Kirk split into two separate beings is murder as well, when they remerged the two halves into one being again! TUVIX never existed until the accident. It would have been double murder to not recover Neelix and Tuvok in that situation. In Riker's case Thomas was like a complete copy (Clone) of Riker so that was an exception.
When Janeway stranded her whole crew to save ONE life form OR when she murdered a crew member who was begging for his life like it was just another Tuesday.
The thing with, "Threshold," it's a MAJOR missed opportunity. I mean if travelling AT warp 10 causes spontaneous evolution, what about half that speed -- which would still be warp 10 -- or staying below warp 10 where it only travelled just as fast as the Enterprise on, "Where No One Has Gone Before," or the average time it takes Discovery to jump? I mean the warp 10 crystal can't take them to the Alpha quadrant in an incredibly slow, extremely boring, rate of 0.00047 seconds? They can only take them there literally instantly?
The Malon. How the HELL do you make an ANTIMATTER REACTOR with a waste problem? Anti-matter converts any mass it interacts with directly into energy, there's literally nothing left afterwards, that's WHY it's the perfect sci-fi power source. The entire existance of the Malon species is down to the writers of a star trek show having no clue what anti-matter is.
I bet the Elogium used to happen more often with an external cause lost when the Caretakers got involved. Maybe an extinct tree let them trigger multiple ovulations aa desired but with it extinct they are on borrowed time.
You forgot Janeway's flippant command for the computer to "delete the wife" of the Irish holo-hunk she wanted to go to boogie town with. Those holos are either sentient or Janeway believes she's in love with an algorithm. Either way... it's WTF and just a bad thing to do.
In spite of the rare cringe-worthy episode, I really liked 'Voyager'. It was only second to DS9 in my 'Star Trek affections'. But, a few episodes into 'Picard' totally ruined 'Voyager' for me. I can't ever watch it again without thinking, 'They'd been better off, staying in the Delta Quadrant.' ( ...the whole 'Icheb' thing - I mean, really?)
@@Yattien89 I know but I don't think you would rename an adopted child. And "Jason" is a very "earth" name, considering his holodeck son had the same name. So the scene implies that it's actually his.
@@tigerbread78 he was accidentally created by a mistake with a machine, he shouldn't have been, also that accident ended 2 other lives who had many preexisting relationships. Not murder, but it is an ending of a life that shouldn't have happened.
Warp Ten always confused me. Every other ship in all the other Star Treks Exceeded Warp 10 multiple times with out becoming Lizards . If they Wanted Lizard people there were other times in Star Trek where Lizards happened. Though if we are talking messed up Trek I just remembered some messed up times in DS9. Point is Voyager had ways of getting home sooner, they just needed more Reginald Barclay He could have made the ship go incredibly fast AND turned in to a Lizard AND had sex with a dutiful women and still had time to do like half the rest of this list.
I do find your voice boring and weird... and oddly compelling... almost hypnoticccccc................. Yessss... Tuvix deserved to live... it all make sense now...
What was bizzare and poorly thought out in Elogium is that if the species can only have a single child at one point in their lives, the species would become extinct after not so many generations.
They'd never make it as a species at all.
Unless their chances of having twins (or more) is over 75%
unless the Ocampa give birth to entire litters.
The Ocompa were just a poorly thought out race. 😵💫
@@Lordrocky24 Even if their chance of twins was 100% that's only population maintenance levels of reproduction, an Ocompa brains itself walking downstairs and the population will never recover. You could increase the population with a really high chance of twins and a disproportionate number of females but then you'll run into interbreeding issues.
You could make an entire top ten WTF list from events in "Threshold" alone.
Neelix helps design the Warp 10 shuttle.
Tom goes Warp 10.
Tom dies.
Tom comes back.
Tom pulls out his tongue.
Tom kidnaps Janeway.
The Doctor's explanation of what happened to Tom.
Tom and Janeway are now salamanders.
BABY salamanders.
Tom and Janeway get turned back like nothing happened.
And never speak of the baby lizards again
@@katygillespie8 Yeah, they abandoned BABIES on an uncharted planet, without their parents. Who DOES that?
Of course, my theory is they tried to capture them, but the stun setting phaser killed one, another was eaten by a larger creature while they were chasing it, and the last escaped into a bog and they couldn't find it and finally gave up.
@@katygillespie8unless you're Lower Decks 🤣
In addition to that, it is implied that Janeway initiated mating. That's sexual harrasment. 😄
@@sureshmukhi2316 Maybe she gave out pheromones, but Tom started the party. That could be interpreted as consent.
"It was Voy. Things got freaky."
Always thought they could have made a copy of Tuvix in the buffer and brought back Neelix and Tuvok as well as allowed Tuvix to live as an individual. The actor that played the part of Tuvix did an excellent job representing that character.
That in total would open a whole new... let me say... problem about teleportation which the writers nor the characters are willing or able to answer.
I mean, they could just copy people that way ad infinitum. Given how often it's happened, you'd think the Federation would have figured that out by now.
Given it happened accidently to William T Riker and W Thomas Riker, it could certainly happen on purpose. Tuvix didn't have the combined mass of Tuvok and Nelix, so the extra matter required to reconstitute them both came from somewhere. One could reduce the notion of a transporter down to a scanner digitizing a document, wirelessly transmitting the document, and printing the document. As long as the printer has paper and ink, you could replicate the document ad infinitum. There is already a massive philosophical debate about whether transporters are mass murder devices and/or whether the rematerialized "you" is actually the same "you" as the dematerialized "you".
That's almost certainly what would have happened in "Twovix" if T'Illups hasn't gone rogue.
If I have one complaint about _Lower Decks,_ it's that the Cerritos crew's -genre awareness- basic common sense makes every other crew look like idiots.
@@TheTrueSCU This question is basically the plot of The Prestige. It doesn't have an answer. Essentially it's like falling asleep and waking up. You could die every night and be reborn every morning, and wouldn't know it. Existentially terrifying, but doesn't actually affect your life.
They sort of retconned Braxton in the episode “Relativity”, where it’s revealed that he did indeed retain memory of the events on Earth. He went through intense therapy but then later went crazy and tried to destroy Voyager again.
Course Oblivion was a bigger WTF moment than most of these. We learn that the ship and crew we are following are all duplicates and they all die without getting to share their existence with anyone. There was also that moment in "Distant Origin" when Voyager was transported inside a massive Dinosaur ship. And let's not forget Janeway meeting "the devil" in "Coda". Those were some of the biggest jaw dropping moments in VOY.
Yeah, kinda surprised they never mentioned the Oblivion one. Was certainly one of the most WTF!? moments for me. In a good way. It's stuck with me. One of the most memorable things.
Blink of an Eye is one of my faverates.
I would’ve put the death of the original Harry Kim and how his duplicate joined the crew for the rest of the series.
To be fair, Chief O'Brien also met a similar fate. The original died in an alternate future and his parallel self came back to the present.
Also, it's debatable which ship was technically the original. After all, only the undamaged Voyager was reachable by the Vidians. Were they the original or the copy? Does it matter? After all, events such as the Year of Hell or Voyager crashing into an ice planet muddy the waters even more. Remember the episode where Tom and Captain Janeway got sent back in time to before a cataclysmic event only to find that the crew trying to rescue them caused the disaster in the first place? Theoretically, that Janeway and Paris are still on that planet because stopping their rescue prevented the cataclysm, cutting them off from their timeline and leaving them stranded. (Alternate timelines must persist so that any information that changes the past can still exist once the flow of time is altered. See Kelvin Timeline/Universe not erasing the continuing Prime Timeline/Universe as evidence.)
Hot take: "Threshold" is good, actually. Well, maybe not _good_ but certainly not bad. The salamanders were actually pretty cute, and everything leading up to the flight was really well done (I love that Neelix solved the final piece).
As for the "evolution" thing-yeah, at best they're portraying Lamarckism, but _Star Trek_ has committed that gaffe at least three other times (off the top of my head).
There's also the episode where the ship ends up caught up in that distortion thing and people are walking around seemingly moving deck to deck without leaving the corridor they were in because the ship was supposedly all twisted and contorted, but, yeah, everything looked perfectly straight and in line internally, of course... :P
it was twisting on a higher dimensional level, as humans we can only perceive a 3 dimensional space.
Further weirdness: it was affecting the ship...but not the people *on* the ship, or individual items *in* the ship like plants and whatnot.
It did affected things & people we just didn't see it until Captain Janeway hit the field & at the end
There should be multiple parts of this. So many WTf moments from that show. Chakotay's spirit possessing people to fight Tuvok, the "Twisted" episode, Shattered, the Doctor uploading himself onto 7of9 and used her body to seduce an alien woman, Lon Suder's entire arc, that Vidiian who stole a Starfleet officer's face so that B'ellana's Klingon half would like him, B'ellana's travel to Sto'vo'kor, the Doctor's holographic daughter dying, Seska raping Chakotay to get pregnant, Kim dying multiple times, Tom Paris gets sexual with a shuttle. The list is STACKED!
Right!😆
Living Witness. We get a sorta mirror-universe version of "Warship Voyager" and everyone is a cackling caricature villain.
The Haunting of Deck Twelve. Neelix tells a ghost story to the Borg children.
Dreadnought. B'Elanna bonds with a sentient suicide bomb.
The Thaw. A holographic evil clown is somehow the scariest fucking thing Trek has ever devised, next to hologram Janeway of course.
Macrocosm. Giant virus blobs try to eat everyone.
Distant Origin. Dinosaurs from Earth somehow went to another planet and became lizard-people, but evolution is a LIE.
Message in A Bottle. The Doctor and The Doctor (but much more gay) defeat Romulan warbirds by pressing buttons randomly, and it's hilarious.
Timeless. Not so much WTF but this should have been a goddamn movie goddamn it why didn't we ever get Voyager movies?
Bride of Chaotica. Did you enjoy the silly Captain Proton parts of other episodes? Here's a treat for you!
Warhead. A sentient suicide bomb- wait, didn't we do this already??
Tsunkatse. Do you want to see Seven of Nine do MMA? Here's a treat for you!
Drive. Hey, did you like that one Outlaw Star episode where the crew enter a Space Race? Yeah we just stole that plot entirely...
Let's not even talk about Endgame holy shit let's not.
That doesn't even mention stolen lungs...
@@ArtistryBranson well, it was a different Vidiian who did that to Neelix, but yep, counts as one tol
"Alice", the episode with a Christine ripoff shuttle had an interesting premise, but falls flat because we never learn how the shuttle saw a particle fountain as home.
the plan was always for the away team to be assimilated, Chakotay saying "so far so good" at the end of part 1 after being told their lifesigns were fluctuating
"Blink of an Eye" was my favorite episode of Star Trek Voyager. It was the first episode I ever saw as a kid and got me back into Star Trek. My father had watched TNG with me when I was a baby, but I didn't rediscover Trek until the Voyager era.
That\s not much of a gap. Unless you started watching Voyager recently.
@@GabePuratekutathey should have just hung around for a while. It wouldn’t take long for those people to develop trans warp technology
My favorite...the red pickup truck found floating in space. Paris got it started? The ultimate "Die Hard" battery commercial.
To name a few Organ stealing, Nazi’s, Amelia Earhart, mind control by a shuttle, mind control by aliens (multiple times), time travel(multiple times), characters supposedly dying (multiple times) and Seven of Nine with Chakotay.
I maintain Janeway did NOT murder Tuvix. While the Neelix half begged for mercy and to live. The Tuvok side knew that the needs of many outweighed the needs of the few or the one. And so Tuvok approved of Janeway turning them back as they could not juggle two very different jobs on board as one being. And having no ability to gain more crew. The divide was necessary
Voyager could do weird REAAALLY well.
tuvix was not murdered. tuvix was 2 people fused together. tuvix was never a full whole person. janeway saved tuvok and neelix.
Yes exactly. Janeway also considered the fact that leaving Tuvix alive would mean taking away Tuvok from his family. I completely agree with Janeway's decision.
Tuvok would understand the reason for being separated from Nelix afteral it was Spock that said "The needs of the many out weight the needs of the few, or the one"
What about the Clown from "The Thaw"????
He was afraid. That's all that matters.
@@GabePuratekuta I knoooooow :-D
Wow I'm guessing I'm the only one that thought the Tuvix decision was the right one. Cool.
You are not. It was the right decision. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
It was 100% the right decision.
As far as I'm concerned, "Tuvix" was only ever a side effect of the medical condition Tuvok and Neelix were suffering from. She cured them.
Nope, I agree too that ending Tuvix's life was right (sad as it was) to restore Tuvok and Neelix.
Nah I agree, not a good option maybe but the best one available. From a pragmatic perspective on ship where replacement crew aren’t an option two people are better than one and from and from a more human perspective Tuvok and Nelix had established life’s and families and people who cared about them, Tuvix was never meant to be and never really had a chance to live on develop more than acquaintances really.
not at all. Tuvok was important for the function of the ship and the emotional stability of Janeway. Tuvix could not fill the gap. She needed to do this. Sometimes you have to do the wrong thing for the right reasons.
What "Threshold" proved is that a warp drive cannot be converted into an Infinite Improbability Drive, at least not without a Bambleweeny 57 Sub-Meson Brain hooked up to a good strong cup of tea.
Unfortunately the replicator cannot produce a good strong cup of tea. It can only produce tea, Earl Grey, hot (which is piss) or a beverage that is almost totally, but not quite, entirely unlike tea.
@@Yonkage-ik5qb Also coffee, black.
What about that episode that had two Voyager's? That one... Was a sad one.
We talking the one early on where one Voyager destroyed itself to save the other or the silver blood aliens one?
The biggest WTF moment was before and after, it gave off the same vibe as the Goosebumps episode the Coo Coo Clock of Doom. The conscience jumping is the same in both episodes and the movie but in the latter the main character deleted his sister from existence and not putting the year she was born back on the clock.
AKA "Delete the sister".
Thought that was a plus. 😁🤗👿
@@hackman669 Depends on the sister. The one in that book (and I assume episode too) really needed deleting.
@@oddish4352 Tara the terrible gets deleted in both the book and episode
@@Firepuma27 Then it was poetic justice. And an awesome preteen fantasy, too: make your obnoxious younger sister disappear.
It does raise some existential questions, though... if that year was erased from history, did everyone just get a little younger?
"Blink of an Eye" is one of my favorite episodes, I've been wishing to know if the Kelemane's species developed technologically enough to leave their planet.
At the end of that episode I seem to remember the Kelemane sending ships up to pull Voyager away from the planet, so at least they had started to develop that tech.
What about the episode where the Doctor had a holographic family and experienced the loss of a child and The Year of Hell? Both epic and unique episodes.
The two part Year Of Hell and Shattered are my two favorite episodes.
Always thought the tech revolution is what delayed khan and why archer's enterprise looked more modern than Kirk's
Janeway was right about Tuvix, you cannot sacrifice 2 people to save just one, morally Janeway did the right thing on killing one person to save two...
And it wouldn't have been just sacrificing two people. Also Tuvok's family who essentially would have lost their husband/father.
@@spacecoffeemood And Neelix, the whole... whatever he has...
Tom, I love your voice. I like the calm demeanor over the hype of some of the other presenters on this channel.
Its the WTF moments, that make ANY of Star Trek memorable. Voyage had the best of these.
No mention of Course:Oblivion, where a pool of weird liquid encountered in a previous episode formed a perfect copy of the entirety of Voyager, its contents, and its crew. The ship and crew began to degrade at a rapid rate, and its only about halfway through that they and the audience finds out what's going on that they are all just copies. Ultimately, the copy crew all died horribly and the ship exploded before they could get back to their home planet. The worst part? A buoy intended to tell their story was attempted to be launched toward the real Voyager as it came close, but failed so no trace of them was ever found.
A weird premise to be sure, but a tear-jerked and asks the classic persistent Trek question "what is the measure of a man?"
Ah yes! The famous italian opera 'Aria la donne é mobile'.
My favourite piece of this opera is 'Rigoletto". Mozart was such a wunderkind!
WTF?
Perfect timing for this video. I am always done to get weird 😂😂
Great video and I like your voice Voyager videos are always great on this channel
3:10 that means that the doctor actually was 10 years in the delta quadrant instead of 7 years like the rest of voyagers crew...
"Threshold" really was an episode that leaves many MANY questions unanswered, as well as leaves the viewers shaking their collective heads. The Picard face-palm meme comes to mind repeatedly during this episode as well. At least for me, anyway 🤦♂️
5:55 Wasn't their assimilation something that they'd planned on in the first place?
Also, Janeway, that's an insanely stupid move. Don't you remember what happened to Picard? The Borg got all sorts of tasty tactical knowledge out of him. And just two seasons ago, you found the Borg's holy grail in Omega particles. Tuvok's anti-assimilation gubbins started to fail. Seems highly likely that the Borg now know about all he knew, and now they know not only does your crew have in-depth knowledge about it, the Borg know the star system where someone came very, very close to engineering it. Thanks Janeway, not only did you condemn them to a slow death by removing their energy supply, they're probably all now getting Mechano bolted onto their skulls.
Honestly a fuckup on this whole plan could explain the Collective’s intimate knowledge of Starfleet when they launched their plan in Picard season 3
Always a pleasure tp hear your deliciously dead-pan tones, Tom 👍
That one episode where everyone starts having headaches and the emh shrinks but after they're in the clear the emh is still the size of a child's doll, that visual effect was ground breaking at the time and the technique was used in making some sequences in Devil May Cry 5 where V climbs on top of Urizen
Th doctor daydreaming and the aliens watching them was one of the funniest episodes!
Tom. Boring? No. Weird? Yes, but with a caveat. I'm from the Arkansas Ozarks. I enjoy weird. Great video, sir.
The Vidians taking the guy's face off?
This was the one I immediately thought of when I saw the title of this video.
Durst!
If Torres, Janeway and Tuvok were all assimilated with current Borg methods, wouldn't they all permanently produce nanoprobes after being freed, just like Seven does?
They weren't assimilated for long enough. Kinda the same handwaving as what happened with Picard. Except they also conveniently didn't get any PTSD from it.
@Yonkage-ik5qb I always figured that in BOBW, they weren't using nanoprobes yet, just larger machine parts to get the job done. They probably started using them before First Contact. I'm always amazed how far us fans go to cover up a bit of lazy writing
Nice! This guy's my fav presenter
I literally just watched “Threshold” yesterday, lol. I’m rewatching the whole run and that was the episode I watched before bed. I had forgotten the babies and that Janeway may have “initiated” things lol.
When TNG came out I remember being so excited then came DS9 and Voyager, from the late 80’s to early aughts really was the golden era of the Trek. Don’t misunderstand, Discovery, Lower Decks, Prodigy, and now Strange New Worlds along with the Kelvin Trek are awesome and I greatly enjoy those shows but for me there is just something about TNG, DS9, and Voyager that makes those shows the best of the Trek.
Threshold on the other hand is also representative of something that happened quite a bit back then, which is when you have to come up with what turned out to be what a couple thousand episodes between the series your gonna end up with some rather interesting ones but this whole “warp 10 hyper-evolves one into a salamander” is truly bonkers for so many reasons but the problem I always had and was reminded of is this, did anyone else feel like it was regression instead of evolution? I remember watching that episode and thinking, why would we “evolve” backwards? Oh well, there are many fun episodes all throughout Star Trek even back to TOS. Anybody want a Tribble?
There was a TNG episode where people started to evolve backwards, too. It had literally no rhyme or reason to it, with people turning into completely random species and even sizes. Like Barclay became a human-sized spider, but Crusher just turned into a normal iguana.
@@Yonkage-ik5qb that’s right, I had forgotten all about that, lol. Reading your comment I remembered when I first saw that episode (when TNG premiered I watched from premiere to end every week, without fail lol) being afraid of Worf because of what he regressed into, lol.
Blink of an eye is by far my favourite voyager episode.
Considering how the writers claimed Warp 10 works (the whole every-point-in-the-universe thing), I was personally surprised and dismayed that no one tried to figure out what the improbability was for the passenger's evolution to accelerate in that way, twice, the same way for both.
4:16 before being taken without prior warning?? It was a reconnaissance mission, and he did get an adequate reminder.
Great list. Good to have a change in a host.
But an I the only one who didn’t give a flying flip about Tuvix?
TC, you're obsessed with the number 10. Try using another number.
The 69 thirstiest characters on STV... 😊
I love how Robert Picardo's book told from the EMH's pov goes into detail about how his life on the planet went. How she'd gotten pregnant by a wealthy man who wasn't treating her right and so they lied and said he was the boy's father and they were raising him themselves.
You couldn’t have this list without “Threshold.”
As someone else in the comments said: you could make an entire list of WTF moments just from "Threshold" by itself...
@@MishraArtificer YES!😹
I wonder why Voyager didn't even consider traveling at relativistic speeds without a warp bubble from 20th century earth to a nearby star and back, it would be a very short time for the crew but centuries for everyone else.
Or just pull a _Voyage Home_ and slingshot to the future.
Your loved ones would all be dead by the time you arrive...
@@NPSao Not at all, you can do the maths to work out how fast you'd need to go and for how long in order to arrive at the correct time.
@@Voltaic_Fire Sorry, I did read that wrong, in my head I assumed you wanted them to travel at relativistic speed from their start point in the Delta quadrant which would be 70000 years.... yours make more sense
That's so funny I was gonna say your voice sounds a little bit boring but it's all right😂
It is so weird how episodes on this list have just aired. "Future's End" was just on Monday & Tuesday😂
Wait, the Doc chose the Butcher of Galatep as the second program?
his voice isn't boring nor weird, it's smooth and sexy
The premise of #8 was "borrowed" by Seth MacFarlane for an episode of The Orville.
minor pedantic point: La Donna E Mobile is not an opera, it's an aria, from the opera Rigoletto.
Opera nazi 😜😜😜✌️
The ocampa make no sense 2 adults can only make 1 child. The ocampa race would half every cycle.
Expanded material says that while there is only one fertile period, MULTILPLES (you know twins and so on) are common among their species, helping keep the species at a viable population.
Am I one of the few that was ecstatic Janeway killed Tuvix? I found the whole Tuvix story line way more annoying than Kes.
There was the dinosaurs one that was wildly inaccurate about the things we knew about even then… that was a big WTAF episode for me
Yeah I knew that would be number 1. It’s Voyager’s alamarain count to 4 moment.
What if you can't count to....whatever that number is.
3:10 .... Voyager crew were the "Aliens"
I think all the episodes you've mentioned are usually skipped. Is it weird I watch Voyager almost everyday for the last 5 years? Lol
NGL I learned something that day after seeing tiny doctor next to giant janeway
Why do you TrekCulture folks keep calling correcting a Transporter glitch into murder? So you are saying that the Transporter Accident that left James Kirk split into two separate beings is murder as well, when they remerged the two halves into one being again! TUVIX never existed until the accident. It would have been double murder to not recover Neelix and Tuvok in that situation. In Riker's case Thomas was like a complete copy (Clone) of Riker so that was an exception.
In response to number 2, "Holy $#%@! Janeway didn't mess around!"
When Janeway stranded her whole crew to save ONE life form OR when she murdered a crew member who was begging for his life like it was just another Tuesday.
bring back Tuvix.. he can come from an alternate universe... thats been done before in Trek multiple times... one where they *didn't* undo it!
Him having a confrontation with Prime Janeway would be great, she could see the potential life she took
Mirror Janeway assimilated him.
Threshold, the best episode ever.
I think his voice is quite pleasant actually.
Your voice is nice
You're nice!
Thanks.
Since we got this lost will we finally get the top 10 episodes of Voyager? Please trekculture give us top 10 episodes of Voyager
The thing with, "Threshold," it's a MAJOR missed opportunity.
I mean if travelling AT warp 10 causes spontaneous evolution, what about half that speed -- which would still be warp 10 -- or staying below warp 10 where it only travelled just as fast as the Enterprise on, "Where No One Has Gone Before," or the average time it takes Discovery to jump?
I mean the warp 10 crystal can't take them to the Alpha quadrant in an incredibly slow, extremely boring, rate of 0.00047 seconds? They can only take them there literally instantly?
Threshold was great, fight me 🤜🏻
10:40 good New spoiler warning
It was said in Star trek Prodigy that Tuvix survived in a different timeline , hé even became a captain
The second riker, means that they could have saved tuvix without loosing the other two.
The Malon. How the HELL do you make an ANTIMATTER REACTOR with a waste problem? Anti-matter converts any mass it interacts with directly into energy, there's literally nothing left afterwards, that's WHY it's the perfect sci-fi power source. The entire existance of the Malon species is down to the writers of a star trek show having no clue what anti-matter is.
The Tuvix story ended how it should have ended. The only logical alternative is to not have had the story told. 🖖
I bet the Elogium used to happen more often with an external cause lost when the Caretakers got involved. Maybe an extinct tree let them trigger multiple ovulations aa desired but with it extinct they are on borrowed time.
You forgot Janeway's flippant command for the computer to "delete the wife" of the Irish holo-hunk she wanted to go to boogie town with. Those holos are either sentient or Janeway believes she's in love with an algorithm. Either way... it's WTF and just a bad thing to do.
They aren't sentient. She was just creating herself the perfect man which is how she fell for it.
Yep, that should be here, too.
@@psykkomancz No it shouldn't.
Eh Warp 10 is infinite velocity so no... Geeze XD I don't want to become a Salamander.
The murder of tuvix was my number 1 wtf moment.
The doctor didn't adopt a child on that temporal world he actually spawned a child with the native woman on that temporal world
Tuvix needed to go. Killing 2 people to save 1 person, who never should have existed, would have been wrong.
Yeah, the lizards...
I wonder if *The Fly* was what inspired *Threshold*
Oh well, TMNT inspiration was much better.
Oh yeah, he's still on his hols isn't he. Hope you're enjoying your time in the limelight, Tom 😀
You say murder I say saving 2 people
I like your voice
In spite of the rare cringe-worthy episode, I really liked 'Voyager'. It was only second to DS9 in my 'Star Trek affections'. But, a few episodes into 'Picard' totally ruined 'Voyager' for me. I can't ever watch it again without thinking, 'They'd been better off, staying in the Delta Quadrant.' ( ...the whole 'Icheb' thing - I mean, really?)
Am I the only one wondering not just that the doctor had a son but HOW?
...adoption?
@@Yattien89 I know but I don't think you would rename an adopted child. And "Jason" is a very "earth" name, considering his holodeck son had the same name. So the scene implies that it's actually his.
@@OldManYellsAtClouds see my other comment
Talking of wtf? Tuvix murdered? Err no!🙄
He wasn't murdered! He's now living on a farm!
It was premeditated, and it was against his will, so yeah, murdered
@@tigerbread78 he was accidentally created by a mistake with a machine, he shouldn't have been, also that accident ended 2 other lives who had many preexisting relationships.
Not murder, but it is an ending of a life that shouldn't have happened.
@Assimilator1 He was murdered, the Doctor could not carry out the procedure, because he swore to do no harm, that alone speaks volumes.
@@tigerbread78 Nope, wasn't an unlawful killing, so it's a termination. Which makes sense that the doctor couldn't do that.
Watch Steven Universe and you'll understand why Janeway was right to separate Tuvix.
Warp Ten always confused me. Every other ship in all the other Star Treks Exceeded Warp 10 multiple times with out becoming Lizards . If they Wanted Lizard people there were other times in Star Trek where Lizards happened.
Though if we are talking messed up Trek I just remembered some messed up times in DS9.
Point is Voyager had ways of getting home sooner, they just needed more Reginald Barclay He could have made the ship go incredibly fast AND turned in to a Lizard AND had sex with a dutiful women and still had time to do like half the rest of this list.
I think one of the books explain that they changed the measurements of warp threshold post-TOS.
woohoo first comment. Just wait until you see what happens at 15:32
Twovix was/is creepy
I do find your voice boring and weird... and oddly compelling... almost hypnoticccccc.................
Yessss... Tuvix deserved to live... it all make sense now...