@@GregoryBSadler Not much. This, a few book reviews, a long defunct podcast, an aging forum, and a subreddit with 1700 members that is trying to get his work more widely recognized. The books are easy enough to find in paperback, however hardcopy editions are fetching some extreme prices, and it doesn't look like the publisher cares much about the series.
Rlly well done. Thanks for this. Love the one dislike LOL. Bakker is the most underrated fantasy writer there is, his 7 books are a masterpiece truly, and I’m an English degree graduate snob lol
Fantastic, I've been eager to hear the discussion about this. There is a small group of us that have spent a good number of years and words on the series, so I am always interested in hearing ideas from outside our little bubble. One minor nitpick though is that you have the title of the book correct in the graphic but not in the title of the video, not that matters all that much.
ive just started getting into philosophy over the past couple of years, however i have loved these books since i first found them in 2012. i cant wait to go back and read them again with a little more knowledge of the philosophy behind them. thank you for this video!
Evening Gregory, Fantastic and informative video as always. The quote you read from Bakker about the allure of speculative fiction (particularly fantasy) readers not wanting to live out the life of a fabled hero, but rather to live in a world of meaning really resonated with me. Is it possible to link that interview? I've searched Google but cannot find it. Thank you again for your video series, and especially for making things clear to fans of fantasy and sci-fi (like myself) with only limited knowledge of philosophy. And thanks for providing it all free of charge on TH-cam- your passion for the subject matter shines through in all of your lectures.
Great introduction to the complex setup of Pre-Second-Apocalipse Earwa. It took an hour only to touch every important subject :). Looking forward to next episodes!
Me starting the series: Oh hey! A fantasy version of the First Crusade, I dig that. The parallels are a bit too obvious, but pretty good. Me later: We live in a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.
Very very good disscussion wish I had these when I read the first book many years ago. This series 10 times better than A Song of Ice and yes it is finished
@@GregoryBSadler seems unlikely since the last we heard he was still working on getting things written. Although when he does finish something, I think the publishing status maybe be up in the air to some extent. To me, worrying about that before the book(s) are done, though, seems like putting the cart before the horse.
there is a 4 book follow-up taking place 20 years later called "The Aspect Emperor." I'm currently on the last book and dreading finishing it for lack of more of this world to explore.
@@Slowdownthere You'll want to weigh in when - at the end of the year - we solicit suggestions and then have a vote. This year's authors and series are already set
It’s interesting that Martin’s work influenced Bakker. From what I’ve heard, much of the history-inspired intrigue and infamous main character deaths occurred first in Maurice Druon’s Accursed Kings series and not ASoIaF, which Martin even acknowledges in a foreword or introduction to Druon’s work. Not sure if there’d be Druon’s indirect influence in Bakker too.
Hey Greg, I love the series. Have you ever read Arslan by MJ Engh? I just finished it and I am confused with the ideas of the book (particularly if the book is about forgiveness or not).
@@GregoryBSadler Wasn't entirely serious: listening to someone pronounce words you've only heard spoken in the silence of your own mind is always jarring. I'm loving your channel.
As far as deconstructing the epic fantasy metanarrative is concerned, Bakker is far more skilled at it than Martin in my opinion, not to mention his superior prose. Honestly, I feel A Song of Ice and Fire is a series of children's novels compared to The Second Apocalypse. Bakker seems to have disappeared into thin air for now, unfortunately. I hope he's doing well, and that one day we'll see more from him.
@@GregoryBSadler I don't think Martin is a bad writer. Even Bakker acknowledges his influence in his own writing. I just think Bakker has transcended him, and I would much prefer a sequel to The Unholy Consult than A Dance with Dragons. But that's just how the Darkness that precedes me moves me, so it's just my opinion.
@@GregoryBSadler Yes, I know you were. That was a bit of hyperbole on my part. I'll amend it this way: Martin (imo) is merely a decent writer while Bakker is a great one. That's all I meant.
Bakker’s ideas about the semantic apocalypse (from his blog) are actually quite scary in current times, when the rational world seems to be falling to the trumpers, qanon types and theocrats
I'm a bit shamed to admit I've never heard of this series until now. I'm going to download it off Audible right away. I think the TTRPG you were having trouble remembering the name of is RuneQuest. Also, wanted to add that it's ironic that that D&D caused so much Satanic Panic, when the accompanying moral alignment system was based on Tolkien's moral realist cosmology.
I don’t expect it was Runequest. That one wasn’t even on my radar. Turns out it was Man, Myth, and Magic, by Yaquinto (a company that didn’t survive long)
" when the accompanying moral alignment system was based on Tolkien's moral realist cosmology." Unfortunately (and in a way that Bakker would understand and sympathetically snicker about I imagine) the circumstances that arise from folks likely to obsess over the Satanaic Panic are the same sort of folks for whom that kind of Tolkienism is Christian in its ethos would fly waaay over their heads. Plus, alas, D&D is overwhelmingly the one in the minds of the public, so that's what takes the lions share of criticism and praise.
By far the best fantasy writer alive. It’s not even close.
He’s a good one
About time Bakker’s work got some attention and discussion. These books saved the genre for me.
Isn't there anything else out there discussing the series?
@@GregoryBSadler GeekNights podcast did a couple episodes where they discussed it
@@GregoryBSadler Not much. This, a few book reviews, a long defunct podcast, an aging forum, and a subreddit with 1700 members that is trying to get his work more widely recognized. The books are easy enough to find in paperback, however hardcopy editions are fetching some extreme prices, and it doesn't look like the publisher cares much about the series.
This is my favourite book series of all time - insanely good
It is indeed some excellent stuff
Rlly well done. Thanks for this. Love the one dislike LOL. Bakker is the most underrated fantasy writer there is, his 7 books are a masterpiece truly, and I’m an English degree graduate snob lol
It's rare you don't get some dislikes
Fantastic, I've been eager to hear the discussion about this. There is a small group of us that have spent a good number of years and words on the series, so I am always interested in hearing ideas from outside our little bubble. One minor nitpick though is that you have the title of the book correct in the graphic but not in the title of the video, not that matters all that much.
Good catch - fixed it.
It is indeed quite a series.
ive just started getting into philosophy over the past couple of years, however i have loved these books since i first found them in 2012. i cant wait to go back and read them again with a little more knowledge of the philosophy behind them. thank you for this video!
You're welcome!
Evening Gregory,
Fantastic and informative video as always. The quote you read from Bakker about the allure of speculative fiction (particularly fantasy) readers not wanting to live out the life of a fabled hero, but rather to live in a world of meaning really resonated with me. Is it possible to link that interview? I've searched Google but cannot find it. Thank you again for your video series, and especially for making things clear to fans of fantasy and sci-fi (like myself) with only limited knowledge of philosophy. And thanks for providing it all free of charge on TH-cam- your passion for the subject matter shines through in all of your lectures.
Glad you enjoyed it. That might be something to ask me to track down when I have more spare time, like after the semester ends
Great introduction to the complex setup of Pre-Second-Apocalipse Earwa. It took an hour only to touch every important subject :). Looking forward to next episodes!
Well. . . there's a lot I left out, I think. Really dense and rich worldbuilding. I'll get to more of it in the coming sessions
Me starting the series: Oh hey! A fantasy version of the First Crusade, I dig that. The parallels are a bit too obvious, but pretty good.
Me later: We live in a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.
Always a nice surprise to find fellow Greeks reading Bakker
@@Red21Viper I'm not a Greek sadly.
@@Πολιτεία-λ6σ 😁sorry mate ! Bakker fans are so few here in Greece so I had to greet.
@@Red21Viper Must be quite an experience with all the Greek terms thrown around.
@@Πολιτεία-λ6σ yes these key words make Earwa, strangely, even more scriptural to me.
Very very good disscussion wish I had these when I read the first book many years ago. This series 10 times better than A Song of Ice and yes it is finished
Here's hoping that he'll write some more books in it!
@@GregoryBSadler Yes sir hopefully. The most realistic relevant Fantasy series of the 21st century in my opinion
Bakker just has to continue his series, if he doesn't find a publisher he should try kickstarter.
I would throw a divorce sized sum at him to be able to finish the series.
Is that what the hold-up is?
@@GregoryBSadler seems unlikely since the last we heard he was still working on getting things written. Although when he does finish something, I think the publishing status maybe be up in the air to some extent. To me, worrying about that before the book(s) are done, though, seems like putting the cart before the horse.
there is a 4 book follow-up taking place 20 years later called "The Aspect Emperor." I'm currently on the last book and dreading finishing it for lack of more of this world to explore.
@@alltimelowedesign Yes, and without giving away the ending, there's more dread ahead of you!
Thank you so much for this. Can't wait to see the other 2 videos.
Cant wait for this
Less than a week now!
I would love to see you deal with Malazan in this series
Make sure to bring that up when we ask for suggestions close to the end of the year
@@GregoryBSadler I'll try! just enrolled in the course. first I've heard of your lectures
I'll second that! I've almost finished Memories of Ice. Listening to Ralph Lister's amazing audiobook version.
@@GregoryBSadler I’m late to this series ..but I would definitely love for you to deal with Malazan.
@@Slowdownthere You'll want to weigh in when - at the end of the year - we solicit suggestions and then have a vote. This year's authors and series are already set
loved this
Glad to read it!
! I love this book, so excited.
Glad to read it
Can someone please confirm the start time in the EST time zone. Thanks!
Eastern Time is 1 hour ahead of Central Time, right?
So, 1 PM for you
It’s interesting that Martin’s work influenced Bakker. From what I’ve heard, much of the history-inspired intrigue and infamous main character deaths occurred first in Maurice Druon’s Accursed Kings series and not ASoIaF, which Martin even acknowledges in a foreword or introduction to Druon’s work. Not sure if there’d be Druon’s indirect influence in Bakker too.
Influence generally works by one author actually reading and appreciating another, not just by one author having done something first
I think I’m missing something. 28 minutes and little reference to the story events themselves?
Yep. You didn’t pay attention at the start I guess when we said, as we do with every video in this series, how we do things
Hey Greg, I love the series. Have you ever read Arslan by MJ Engh? I just finished it and I am confused with the ideas of the book (particularly if the book is about forgiveness or not).
I have not
Achamian! it's Achamian! Ah - `Kay - Mee - An! But seriously, this was a great review. "War is Intellect" indeed.
Don't sweat the small stuff. Does zero good to provide corrections on a video already shot and uploaded
Glad you enjoyed the actual content
@@GregoryBSadler Wasn't entirely serious: listening to someone pronounce words you've only heard spoken in the silence of your own mind is always jarring. I'm loving your channel.
As far as deconstructing the epic fantasy metanarrative is concerned, Bakker is far more skilled at it than Martin in my opinion, not to mention his superior prose.
Honestly, I feel A Song of Ice and Fire is a series of children's novels compared to The Second Apocalypse.
Bakker seems to have disappeared into thin air for now, unfortunately. I hope he's doing well, and that one day we'll see more from him.
I doubt we need to go that far in the comparison
@@GregoryBSadler I don't think Martin is a bad writer. Even Bakker acknowledges his influence in his own writing. I just think Bakker has transcended him, and I would much prefer a sequel to The Unholy Consult than A Dance with Dragons.
But that's just how the Darkness that precedes me moves me, so it's just my opinion.
All that can be true. I'm responding to "Honestly, I feel A Song of Ice and Fire is a series of children's novels compared to The Second Apocalypse".
@@GregoryBSadler Yes, I know you were. That was a bit of hyperbole on my part.
I'll amend it this way: Martin (imo) is merely a decent writer while Bakker is a great one. That's all I meant.
@@bloodybill01 Got it
The series/main story is complete after the seven published books, but Bakker is continuing with a sequel book/duology
If it indeed does end with The Unholy Consult, then it is as heartbreaking as it seems
This maybe inaccurate, but it feels like this book is to Nietzsche as Tolstoy said war and peace was to Schopenhauer.
How so? That’s a very strong analogy to draw
Bakker’s ideas about the semantic apocalypse (from his blog) are actually quite scary in current times, when the rational world seems to be falling to the trumpers, qanon types and theocrats
If you look closely you'll notice its exposing the truth. 😎
I'm a bit shamed to admit I've never heard of this series until now. I'm going to download it off Audible right away.
I think the TTRPG you were having trouble remembering the name of is RuneQuest. Also, wanted to add that it's ironic that that D&D caused so much Satanic Panic, when the accompanying moral alignment system was based on Tolkien's moral realist cosmology.
I don’t expect it was Runequest. That one wasn’t even on my radar. Turns out it was Man, Myth, and Magic, by Yaquinto (a company that didn’t survive long)
" when the accompanying moral alignment system was based on Tolkien's moral realist cosmology." Unfortunately (and in a way that Bakker would understand and sympathetically snicker about I imagine) the circumstances that arise from folks likely to obsess over the Satanaic Panic are the same sort of folks for whom that kind of Tolkienism is Christian in its ethos would fly waaay over their heads.
Plus, alas, D&D is overwhelmingly the one in the minds of the public, so that's what takes the lions share of criticism and praise.