Love seeing folks acknowledge the Sin-Eater story. I remember reading that arc in high school and being super fascinated by it and the struggle it presents.
I agree. The Hobgoblin was a great villain under Stern. Tom DeFalco and Jim Owlsley ruined him. Owlsley's association with Spider-Man in general is not very good. I remember his ridiculing Peter's globe-trotting on the Webs tour during Michilinie's Web of Spider-Man run, and I thought "What a jerk." If Hobgoblin was ruined by writers who didn't want him to grow, maybe the same could be said of the incels controlling Spider-Man for the last 20 years who can't abide the idea of Peter growing up. P.S.: It was John Romita, Jr. who returned for the proposal issue, not John Romita, Sr.
The Hobgoblin story was such a huge letdown after all the years of build up there. They did try to keep the character around in a pretty visual way, especially after making him an actual demon. But really it's Harry Osbourne's return as the Green Goblin that killed any presence Hobgoblin had.
I personally like it when some characters die off randomly (like Ned Leeds) without any sort of closure, it's kind of a reminder of how human these characters are and how similar to our lives, sometimes people we love die without getting to say goodbye
An unexpected comparison, but imo this is part of the magic of Danganronpa and what makes the writing so gripping. It _wants_ you to get attached to everyone, it will give them depth and arcs and dynamics where nobody is obviously death fodder (and if you think they are they probably have a bigger chance of survival). And then it slaughters them. Multiple a chapter. Including in the middle of their character arcs. Character arcs will be entirely interrupted by being murdered, and it's a planned out story thing. Because that's how death works. That's what makes death _despairful_ in real life. Characters in fiction too often either only die once they've finished everything up, or with some meaningful death. Real life doesn't let you finish your character arc before killing you, and most deaths are meaningless.
YES. My era and more or less, my idea of what Spider-Man should be. While I agree PPTSSM had the more adult stories, I can't deny that as a 10yo, it was ASM that had my full attention. That's where the Hobgoblin arc was happening. And like with Gang War, ASM had plenty of adult storylines of its own. It was all good, though. I'll take the worst and thrown-out ideas of this era over the best of the past decade, and really since the Clone Saga ended turning me off comics HARD.
“Ned was the original Paul” is a hilarious observation 😂 If only Paul wasn’t created with such blatant animosity towards the readers, maybe he’d have a chance of growing into a fully fleshed out character like Ned. And man oh man did they screw over Hobgoblin. Macendale was fine as Jack-o-lantern but he has zero prescience as a Goblin. His lame duck status just drags the Hobgoblin identity into the gutters. I think it was inevitable that editorial would bring back Green Goblin eventually, but I wonder if they would’ve revived Norman if they’d stuck the landing with Kingsley as Hobgoblin and archnemesis.
Ok, Defalco got fired whej he had only just started Gang War. I think its pretty obvious in hindsight that the Hobgoblin's climb would have continued if Defalco had finished it, especially since we know that Defalco planned on him being Fisk's son. What I suspect would've happened is Hobby would've betrayed Rose, defeated the other gangs and put himself on the level with Kingpin, heck Kingpin may have even gotten displaced from the city I don't think Defalco ruined Hobgoblin. It was Priest (Owsley)
After the 90's Clone Saga, Roger Stern returned to write the mini series "Hobgoblin Lives". He finally fixes the Hobgoblin saga, connecting the fake identity reveals with Kingsley. You should definitely read it. One of the best Spider-Man stories.
I just started watching your video and I actually used to own that book on the death of Jean DeWolff. Unless you’re talking some of the 70s stories of Spider-Man, this was easily the darkest story in his collection up to this point.
@Galvatronover -- I found Alpha Flight had a new series and Leniel Francis Yu's art on Wolverine was just amazing. I tried them out and liked them so I went back to the X-Titles, Hulk, Silver Surfer, and Maverick. I only kept with Alpha, Maverick X-Peoples, and Wolverine but ended up becoming a primarily DC guy again.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 91 | คู่เอก "คมอาวุธ vs อเล็กเซย์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/V0RkEfYFsgM/mqdefault.jpg)
Love seeing folks acknowledge the Sin-Eater story. I remember reading that arc in high school and being super fascinated by it and the struggle it presents.
It was always one of the most loved and iconic spider-man stories
“Gang War” was my jumping off point as a Spider-Man collector and Spider-Man vs. Wolverine was the series’s first jump the shark moment 😂
When Peter lost his spool table, cigar Indian, swordless swordfish, everything kind of went down a bit.
I agree. The Hobgoblin was a great villain under Stern. Tom DeFalco and Jim Owlsley ruined him. Owlsley's association with Spider-Man in general is not very good. I remember his ridiculing Peter's globe-trotting on the Webs tour during Michilinie's Web of Spider-Man run, and I thought "What a jerk." If Hobgoblin was ruined by writers who didn't want him to grow, maybe the same could be said of the incels controlling Spider-Man for the last 20 years who can't abide the idea of Peter growing up.
P.S.: It was John Romita, Jr. who returned for the proposal issue, not John Romita, Sr.
The Hobgoblin story was such a huge letdown after all the years of build up there. They did try to keep the character around in a pretty visual way, especially after making him an actual demon. But really it's Harry Osbourne's return as the Green Goblin that killed any presence Hobgoblin had.
I personally like it when some characters die off randomly (like Ned Leeds) without any sort of closure, it's kind of a reminder of how human these characters are and how similar to our lives, sometimes people we love die without getting to say goodbye
An unexpected comparison, but imo this is part of the magic of Danganronpa and what makes the writing so gripping. It _wants_ you to get attached to everyone, it will give them depth and arcs and dynamics where nobody is obviously death fodder (and if you think they are they probably have a bigger chance of survival). And then it slaughters them. Multiple a chapter. Including in the middle of their character arcs. Character arcs will be entirely interrupted by being murdered, and it's a planned out story thing. Because that's how death works. That's what makes death _despairful_ in real life. Characters in fiction too often either only die once they've finished everything up, or with some meaningful death. Real life doesn't let you finish your character arc before killing you, and most deaths are meaningless.
YES. My era and more or less, my idea of what Spider-Man should be. While I agree PPTSSM had the more adult stories, I can't deny that as a 10yo, it was ASM that had my full attention. That's where the Hobgoblin arc was happening. And like with Gang War, ASM had plenty of adult storylines of its own. It was all good, though. I'll take the worst and thrown-out ideas of this era over the best of the past decade, and really since the Clone Saga ended turning me off comics HARD.
Really great analysis of this era, and I completely agree with your final conclusion.
“Ned was the original Paul” is a hilarious observation 😂 If only Paul wasn’t created with such blatant animosity towards the readers, maybe he’d have a chance of growing into a fully fleshed out character like Ned.
And man oh man did they screw over Hobgoblin. Macendale was fine as Jack-o-lantern but he has zero prescience as a Goblin. His lame duck status just drags the Hobgoblin identity into the gutters. I think it was inevitable that editorial would bring back Green Goblin eventually, but I wonder if they would’ve revived Norman if they’d stuck the landing with Kingsley as Hobgoblin and archnemesis.
16:17 At one point Firelord was the Herald of Galactus.
Ok, Defalco got fired whej he had only just started Gang War. I think its pretty obvious in hindsight that the Hobgoblin's climb would have continued if Defalco had finished it, especially since we know that Defalco planned on him being Fisk's son. What I suspect would've happened is Hobby would've betrayed Rose, defeated the other gangs and put himself on the level with Kingpin, heck Kingpin may have even gotten displaced from the city
I don't think Defalco ruined Hobgoblin. It was Priest (Owsley)
After the 90's Clone Saga, Roger Stern returned to write the mini series "Hobgoblin Lives". He finally fixes the Hobgoblin saga, connecting the fake identity reveals with Kingsley. You should definitely read it. One of the best Spider-Man stories.
I just started watching your video and I actually used to own that book on the death of Jean DeWolff. Unless you’re talking some of the 70s stories of Spider-Man, this was easily the darkest story in his collection up to this point.
Another amazing video keep up the amazing work ❤
God, I miss the 80s
I liked all of those titles at the time. I kept at them until about 1995 when I quit Marvel and comics except for Batman completely until about 1997.
What change in 1997
@Galvatronover -- I found Alpha Flight had a new series and Leniel Francis Yu's art on Wolverine was just amazing. I tried them out and liked them so I went back to the X-Titles, Hulk, Silver Surfer, and Maverick. I only kept with Alpha, Maverick X-Peoples, and Wolverine but ended up becoming a primarily DC guy again.
Wolverine can't die. Killing him by convetional means like snapping his neck isn't possible
Next year we're finally getting J M De Matteis spectacular run in an omni. I really hope Peter David's run comes soon.
need a reading guide for this
No matter what you say, that's not stealing.
My personal favorite era of spidey comics
An Omni is already in the works for Web of Spider-Man.
The clone saga ruined Spider Man
Lets be fr, the Darkest Spider-Man run is Mcfarlane’s 1990 Spider-Man run.
Did he break his vow though? He vowed to protect INNOCENT people in both snaps shots 0:37
I’ve had better runs in my shorts