That "pincha la rueda de Hamilton" website was actually a fair bit worse, as I remember seeing it at the time. The more apt translation was "puncture Hamilton's tyre" and it was in effect a track map/voodoo doll thing, where people could put up angry messages connected to virtual nails placed on the track surface. Kind of glad it isn't around any more, as when I did read it as as a Spanish speaker, it was a best angry invective and at worst an incitement to racially motivated violence.
@@dxfifa -- -- I mean, the same argument could be made about Damon Hill, and Jacques Villeneuve, and Jenson Button, and Keke Rosberg... Alan Jones... Jody Scheckter... Mario Andretti... Emerson Fittipaldi... Denny Hulme... Jack Brabham... (I think I've made my point). Felipe Massa had 269 starts (nice), and scored 11 wins and 41 podiums during his career; he also had 16 pole positions and scored 1,167 points. Every single World Champion who I just named off did roughly about as good, with only a few doing slightly better, but close enough that it's a fair comparison. Several among those I listed did far WORSE than Massa's career record. Take Button, with 306 starts... 15 wins, 50 podiums, 8 poles, 1,235 career points, so he's about as good. Jack Brabham... sure, only 126 starts, but he raced for about the same number of years and got 14 wins, 31 podiums and 13 poles... for TWO World Championships. Is it a fair comparison? I don't know, he raced in an era with no wings for downforce, so its hard to say. He's no Jim Clark, who got 25 wins, 31 podiums and 33 poles in his meager 72 starts, but I mean, who is? Mika Häkkinen took 96 starts to get his first win, Massa did it in only 84... Häkkinen then went on to score his next 19 wins in only 65 starts, but during a period when McLaren just DOMINATED the rest of the field. Massa, was in a Ferrari during a period when, they were really just... crap. So... Häkkinen is a two time World Champion, and Massa... isn't. Then, let's look at Massa's career as a whole, because a lot of time it just comes down to nothing more than luck. Massa was the Formula Renault and the European Champion of 2000. Then, he won the Euro Formula 3000 in 2001. Goes to Sauber in 2002 and scores 4 points, including a 5th place finish... IN A SAUBER. Doesn't race in 2003. Comes back in 2004 and scores 12 points with a 4th place finish. In 2005 he scores another 11 points which outscores his Sauber teammate... *World Champion Jacques Villeneuve.* Then, in 2006, Massa, starts with Ferrari, where his teammate is some dude called... Michael Schumacher... still, he finishes third in the Championship behind winner Alonso and teammate Schumacher. Massa also gets his first win in Turkey. In 2007, Schumy retires and his teammate becomes wunderkind Kimi Räikkönen... crap. He's up against now World Champion Kimi Räikkönen again in 2008, where Massa out drives him and ALMOST wins the World Championship, but places 2nd. Come to think of it, how good was Kimi? Let's see... 349 starts (holy cow), but only 21 wins, and 18 poles... and an ungodly 103 podiums and a career 1,873 points (okay, pretty good). Räikkönen is again his teammate in 2009 and then... finally, in 2010, Räikkönen goes away, and Massa can now show the world what he's got as Ferraris' number one driver. Who are they going to bring over as their #2? Ah... two time World Champion Fernando Alonso... crap. Also crap... Ferraris' cars, even Alonso can't win a championship with them. Let's back up a bit though. On July 25th, 2009, Massa is injured by a spring that fell of Ruben Barrichello's car. Massa was struck in the head and his helmet did little to stop the spring from penetrating his skull, which had to be reinforced with a titanium plate. Massa was out for the remainder of the season. He had to retest with the FIA to prove he could still drive and, on their maiden race of the year in 2010, he came in second behind his teammate Alonso. However, most of the other drivers and others at team Ferrari stated that, Massa was never quite the same ever again. So, yeah, I know I dedicated (a really long) four paragraphs to your single sentence blurb... 7 months after the fact... but I just wanted to demonstrate that, in fact, Massa was a very good driver, on Championship pace and it would not have been a shame if he had won the Championship anywhere along the way. He was an accomplished driver, with a solid record to prove it. He just kept being placed with teammates who were World Champions themselves, including a two time winner and, at the time, the guy with the greatest record in Formula One's entire history. So, yeah... he didn't match up to those guys (or, when he did, team orders told him to move aside and let them win instead _"Fernado is faster than you"_ anyone?.. but he was a sight better than just about everyone else on the track during that period. Had they not been there, Massa would have easily won a championship for himself, anywhere between 2006 and 2012, and perhaps could have even been a two time or three time World Champion in his own right. Besides those three incredible drivers, nobody else could really touch him. Remove those three drivers, and Massa wins a hell of a lot more than 11 Grand Prix races, and quite a few more podiums, points and poles to boot. Okay... rant over.
I don’t think I ever thought about how Glock would have felt about the conspiracy due to it all being nonsense. But yeah, Glock should hate this stupidity more than anyone and this might be the only thing he’s remembered for in F1 in years to come. Harsh!
@@jairajsinghshaktawat6593 What’s your counter argument? That Glock stayed out on dry tyres in order to benefit Hamilton. Norris and Leclerc are perfect evidence of why it’s impossible to drive in the wet on dry tyres.
@@jairajsinghshaktawat6593 Stating that two drivers don’t get on is hardly a sign of bias. It’s a well-known fact that Hamilton doesn’t get on with several German drivers, Vettel being the exception.
@@bfapple several? The only one I knew of was Rosberg (and now Glock) but I think they’ve patched things up now considering that they went on vacation together not too long ago
If Felipe still dreams about that, he'd rather hear his team radio of that moment... But if I had to guess what causes him nightmares, I would say his "Valtteri, it's James" moments might take a higher spot in that regard.
I think Massa is probably waking up to mistakes Ferrari did on his car that year a lot more than this one race where he actually won outright... He should also have those cold sweats about 2007 when he could won the chip if his car didn't get DSQd in France which forced him into a driver #2 position for the rest of the year
In fact, Glock was actually lucky at that time the dry tyres were grooved or he would've ended up like Lando a lot sooner... Believe me, as a tifosi it hurts to say but Glock had no fault for Hamilton's WDC, it was entirelly to Ferrari and the way they sacked their WDC in title...
Grove tyres back in thoses days would not transfer water as a real inter or full wets because the groves are vertical and have no scoops within the groves. In fact the tyres has less contact patches (the way to slow them down)
@@gpstoner1338 Yes and no. Obviously, it will never displace water but when in wet conditions other than a downpour, the grooves will keep some water within and allow you to have some rubber in contact with the tarmac. On the other hand, a full slick will hydroplane much sooner than a grooved tyre cause the surface is completely flat and will have no contact area with the track.
That's a load of rubbish. Grooved tires were worse than slicks in the dry. Ask David Coulthard. The rain built up in the grooves and lifted the tire, because there was no where for the rain to go.
@@weallfollowmanutd Grooved tires are better than true slicks in damp conditions. Once you get into anything truly "wet" they're no better and no worse than full slicks.
The fact Glock could keep his car on track at a circuit like Interlagos with cars that didn't generate as much downforce as they do today and were lighter than today's cars shows his talent.
The fact Ferrari didn't protest shows there was no conspiracy (since they used to protest ANYTHING if they thought they could get away with it) and Massa showed he was a gentleman in accepting defeat. Shame his "fans" (and the haters) couldn't do the same.
@@teabagtowers3823 lmao what? Ferrari still get a shitload of bonuses in F1 for just being “Ferrari”. They get veto power, and they get a huge amount of money compared to everyone else.
I always put this down to a conspiracy which is straight up a coping mechanism for Massa fans (or anti-Hamilton fans) and not one that any true follower of F1 believes. I bet anyone who really believes it does not even know Glock was on slicks.
I definitely believed it in my youth at the time (I was 6), and told everyone that would listen. So I could be the culprit to be honest. Sorry about that! I am now a smarter man
Agreed, but they didn't release this for many years which is why people kept this "conspiracy" alive for so long. Glock got overtaken by loads of people.
@@craighawley3920 I hated that moment when he passed glock to win the title. but looking back I remember Michael moved over for Vettel, he even spoke loudly he gonna do it if that will win Sebastian the championship. I know it's two different situation and circumstances but why have problem with one and not the other?
@@fireinthenight9028 a lot of people hated Hamilton being big Ferrari fans or Alonso fans in the same way Seb got hate when he was winning all the time. The issue seems to be he went from the local lad who was the underdog to utter domination which annoyed even more people. He doesn’t seem the sort of guy you would go for a beer with any more. Then obviously there are some people that are just racist but I think too many get accused of that when they give Lewis any sort of criticism. People complained about what Michael said at the time about Seb and I didn’t like Seb but he seems to have humbled and now is the F1 fans golden child. I have a soft spot for Seb now and during his WDC domination I hated him shooting for a 5 sec lead two laps in to win easily.
You can even watch Glock’s onboard from that last lap and you can CLEARLY see how tricky it was out there as the rain began to belt down while he is on dry tyres. th-cam.com/video/fhH93grvh84/w-d-xo.html
That was his team. They were waiting to see if they needed to switch him to inters or a fresh set of dry tires. They waited too long and lost the championship in the process
People always look at Glock costing Massa that title, but in reality it was Renault and Piquet who robbed Massa of the title with crashgate in Singapore. If Piquet doesn’t crash you don’t have the chaos of the SC Pit stops where Massa goes too soon and drags the fuel hose down pit lane…
"Is that bottas!? Is that bottas going slowly!? it is!" And verstappen gets past. Not salty, just a Williams fan finally watching another driver move over other than Russell.
I remember I was watching the live timing - both Glock and Trulli suddenly went slower in S2 than the previous laps - both by IIRC 18S. Anyone watching Lando last weekend will see how quick an F1 on slicks goes from "Almost as fast as wets" to "impossible to keep on track" - the same happened in Brazil. The other moment in 2008 for me was Spa - what are your thoughts about that? I remember being livid at the time with the penalty - it seemed very engineered to close up the championship. I was glad Hamilton won that year, as Massa winning by a point or 2 would have felt unjust.
All you have to do is watch the onboard from Glocks final lap to know there was no conspiracy. I think if this were to happen today there would be no confusion, but races even back then were harder to follow and the cameras were just following Lewis/Seb not Glock, so when he appeared seemingly out of nowhere on the final corner it was very surprising.
I'll add my 2 cents on how the situation circa 08 was in Spain. You gotta remember that pre-Alonso, Spain didn't have great drivers (DLR was the best, and he was below average). To give you an idea of how impactful Alonso was, until 04, F1 was not nationally televised (it had been in the 90s) and the only way to watch it was by paying or living in Catalonia because Catalan TV did have it; but after Alonso's success in 03, a major channel bought the rights. So, as you may imagine, the only people really covering F1 at a national level were massively in favour of FA. And it was made worst by the second commentator, Gonzalo Serrano, who would just bash everyone that wasn't Alonso and would spew conspiracy theories left right and center. It was funny, him throwing "the McLaren engine goes beyond the 19k rpm limit!" in front of DLR, who was also part of the commentating team. Needles to say, there was an automatic hatred for Hamilton, which then went to Vettel; all the way inexplicably the FIA would always benefit whoever was in a title fight against FA, pretty much convincing a country pre-contemporary Internet environment that there was a conspiracy against Alonso, because he was clearly superior, the "driver-engineer" that was gonna win a la Michael when he joined Ferrari, because "he was gonna tell Ferrari how to do things properly". That's not an exaggeration, that's a quote from my dad. Little FYI: "Pincha" in that context would mean "puncture", so yeah, would've been a dumb flash game of clicking the tyre to make it blow up.
If THE Alonso, who can't stop bad mouthing everyone who's successful, and if THE Ferrari, who can't go a weekend without protest, didn't bother, people definitely don't need to 😂
@@bourbonslurpee It was absolutely legal, regarding the rules. He went into the corer as 4th and left it on the same position. And the way he performed it was admirably precise. Regarding the "sporting" aspect, well, it was as sporting as the sporting regulations he followed.
@@Timberwolf69 I agree with everything you said but just want to clear up that I think rule its self was unsporting not Alonsos use of the rule. I also wasn't aware when I made my first comment that Alonso already had a back story of lobbying against this rule.
The conspiracy theory started instantaneously. I was a member of an F1 forum at the time and there were many people making the claim straight away. There were claims of Dennis paying for Glock to move over etc. I remember arguing with many of them, pointing out the basic logistics of communications etc but to no avail.
The stupidest thing about the conspiracy is that if Glock wanted Hamilton to win the championship there was no reason to "take a dive", all he had to do was pit for intermediate tires like everyone else did and avoid passing Hamilton in the first place.
I can tell you when and where it statrted. My dad (who isn't a Ham fan) immediately said Glock let him through as it happened live. He had his mind made up before Hamilton even crossed the finish line. Fucking boomers man
I always loved this particular conspiracy because it allows stupid people to out themselves so easily. Glock pits, Lewis wins, Glock stays out, Lewis wins, somehow out of that Glock is made out to be the bad guy. In actuality Glock did the only thing possible to stop Hamilton winning the title, if he comes in for wets like everyone else Lewis wins by default, the only chance Massa had was for someone to stay out and try and make it to the end before Hamilton, Glock gave Massa a chance and for that he has been demonised by the absolute, categorical, worst fans in all of sport, the Brazilians.
The confusion and bitter disappointment in the Ferrari garage, especially on Massa's dads face and body language really hit home... That this was my favourite sporting moment of all time! I never could stand Massa. I can't even pinpoint why, he just gets my back up.
The Guardian, if I remember correctly. (If I remember correctly they published a list of 4 drivers each who would be likely to “help” Hamilton and Massa on the day of the race. Massa’s, if I remember correctly, had at least Webber and Heidfeld, and Hamilton’s had Glock, Trulli, and I think Rosberg…).
Toyota didn't stop Trulli either, but likely Glock had a 5 sec advantage on lap 69 because he was farther ahead and had better conditions for that lap only. Typical Toyota strategy blunder, which saddened this Toyota F1 fan, not as much as Bahrain 2009...
They gained a position with that strategy,it was a good one.Glock was running 7 th before rain and because of not changing tyres,finished 6th.Good strategy.
It wasn't actually a blunder. Glock gained a position, unless the rain suddenly stopped he was never going to get higher. Toyota made the correct choice, it just seems like the incorrect one because of the last corner drama. But in the end going from 7th to 6th over a strategy is still a net gain.
The rain coming down harder right at the end messed up Toyota's plan to keep them both out. They did get more points than they would have if they had pitted either car, but the goal was to get Glock to 4th.
I just love your channel man. There is a clear difference in your approach, your talking/script and style, compared to other popular creators like Tommo, Aldas, Perspective and of course Josh Revell. The algorithm brought me here but damn I‘m happy about it! Keep it up, you‘re doing great!
I wish some of the current F1 drivers on the grid get the chance to drive THE BEST CAR at least one time in theirs careers, while the Sir drove 9 times THE BEST CAR already (2007, 2014-2021), no other driver in history comes somewhere close to that.
💙Aguero. Well I didn't expect THAT reference on this channel. My eyes still water 10yrs later on just hearing that commentary, and if you've noticed the numbers City are wearing this season, are the digital ones used for 93:20. Back on topic, it's precisely this kind of race that should teach younger fans just why most love wet weather F1 racing. It's not about the worry of crashing, drivers have never been safer. It's because all the rules of form and expected outcomes go right out of the window. It's about as exciting as F1 can get.
Haha that title had me chuckling before I even watched the video. Greatly enjoyed! Didn't Glock also say he was deliberately driving off line as to avoid slippery wet rubber on the track in the corners?
To me, the conspiracy comes from him being black and people thinking F1 was pushing him to win for marketing. I do think pro sports are rigged though so who knows
@@jairajsinghshaktawat6593 do you think Toyota (F1 team based in Germany) intentionally screwed Glock (a German driver) to gift Hamilton (British) a WDC?
The 2008 championship left many Ferrari fans butthurt. Massa was a second rate driver driving a very good car and also getting scandalously all the help he could get from the FIA to be crowned Champion with Hamilton getting every penalty he could get in order for Massa to be close. That last lap in Brazil was just justice from God as Hamilton should have taken that championship earlier and I enjoyed every second of these Ferrari salty tears. I can't believe the sheer stupidity of some people that would propose that Glock should deliberately take Hamilton out just because he hated him. Or the sheer stupidity to think Glock was able to drive with slicks in a full rain torrent. As I said earlier I enjoyed their tears and I enjoy it till today cause a Mclaren driver destroyed every single record of their precious Michael Schumacher.
This was 10 years before I was even remotely interested in F1, but I love these old stories, it’s why I watch your videos after all. The “Is that Glock” moment always reminds me of the 2017 Supercars finale, it’s the only time I’ve ever watched such a close title fight live. I would love to hear your take on that season one day. The F3 finale last year almost had a crazy ending, champion Piastri passed a car just as he crossed the line, however he was already in position to win the title before that, by one point.
If Lando in the closing laps of the Russian GP is any indication, slicks + rain = NO BUENO. I don't know how much more wet the Sochi track was vs Interlagos in 2008, but the fact that Glock made it to the finish line and didn't bin his Toyota is a feat in its own. These conspiracy theories are ridiculous. No driver will purposely let another driver by for position on the final lap. These are fierce competitors who hate losing.
I think this topic will be interesting - was Max Mosley imposing the $100M fine on McLaren for the Spygate scandal just a personal vendetta against Ron Dennis (hence the claim that it was $5M for the offense and $95M for Ron being a twat), whom along with Frank Williams was leading the charge against the FIA by forming the GPWC back in 2001.
@@johngriffiths118 He's the founder of McLaren Automotive (McLaren sells road cars now) and I believe he still plays a leading role in the company. Forgot what position he still holds. He's also a major donor to the Conservative Party of the UK.
I don't understand why is this is (or was) even argued. I myself as a Brazilian wasn't pleased with the 2008 championship result, but I don't whine about it. Unfortunately the 2009 accident meant that Massa was never the same, which makes it a big what if in my head.
The biggest controversy happened at Monaco, '66. If Jeff Jordan had let Aaron retire with a janky transmission when he wanted to, Stoddard would never have crashed out of the race, nearly dying in the process. There. I said it. Jeff Jordan was to blame. I'll die on this hill.
The conspiracy theory is absolute nonsense. What is the agenda of those who repeat it, to delegitimize Hamilton's first championship? If that is the case, then how many of Schumacher's championships are illegitimate, given that his teammates moved over for him, even when team orders were explicitly illegal? I will agree with one statement though; that was the most exciting ending of a sports story. Unlike the Miracle on Ice or the 1986 Mets, this was down to the absolute final moment; whereas the Miracle on Ice was a Semi-Final game and the ball going through Buckner's legs tied the World Series, which the Mets won in game 7.
Surely Michael Thomas for Arsenal v Liverpool is more apt .b1st v 2nd Bigger game , Bigger teams, more people watched . The game that heralded The Premier League and Live Football League matches, as before that game , League matches were never shown live on television.
I was watching that race live and remember thinking "the f*** is the Massa family celebrating, the race is not over yet". Whoever thinks it's a conspiracy didn't watch the race. The recent Russian GP is a perfect analogy of what can happen with sudden rain in the final laps. I remember Vettel passing cars like sitting ducks with the wets. Add the fact that Interlagos actually has elevation changes and staying on dries proved to be a recipe for disaster. Where I live we have a word for jixning it by celebrating too early (usually applies to football): "mufa" There was a lot of "mufa" in that Ferrari garage that day ^^
A couple of controversies that stick in my mind, but don't get mentioned very often are the 1960 Italian Grand Prix and the 1975 Spanish Grand Prix. Let's discuss the first one initially. Although it went down in history as the last win for a front engined F1 car, it was far from glorious. By the time of the 1960 running of the Italian Grand Prix, the penultimate round, Ferrari were winless and the prospects looked grim for them. The organisers must have thought so too, so on the eve of the race, they changed the layout to tip the balance in Ferrari's favour, by using the full track, including the banking (utilising the only advantage they had, straight line speed). The rest of the field, knowing how dangerous the banking was at Monza, threatened to boycott the race in response to what they saw as blatant Italian nationalism if they didn't revert to the road course. No such reversal was forthcoming, so the field was reduced to mostly Ferraris. If people think the 2005 US Grand Prix was a messy affair, they've got nothing on the 1975 Spanish Grand Prix. Staged at the Montjuich Park Street circuit in Barcelona, the venue of the Spanish Grand Prix alternated between Jarama and Montjuich Park between 1969 and 1975. Safety was the biggest concern going into the 1975 Spanish Grand Prix. The biggest concern was the barriers lining the track. When the teams arrived in Spain, they noticed that not only were the barriers inadequately bolted together, but the posts weren't properly embedded into the ground. The teams and drivers called for it to be rectified before the cars were driven in anger. However, far addressing the issues, the regime in Spain at the time, under the dictatorship of Francisco Franco, was not conducive to making these changes. Instead they doubled down, pointing out that if the teams failed to race, they'd be in breach of contract and the cars impounded, jeopodising the championship if it went to court. The teams were in effect blackmailed into racing in unsafe conditions, drivers did the minimum participation, legally, to say they attempted (like Emerson Fittipaldi, the defending champion at the time) and still others took the start, but much reduced from the norm. The race was stopped 5 laps after Rolf Stomellen, who had been leading, lost his rear wing cresting a rise. The car vaulted over one of the barriers and into a spectator area. Spectators were killed and injured and the driver suffered a broken leg. Jochen Mass took his first and only win and with half points awarded, Lella Lombardi became the first (and so far only) woman to score a world championship point in 6th place when the race was stopped
The conspiracy is nonsense. If Glock and Toyota wanted Hamilton to win the title, why would you stay out? That’s the one thing at that moment that puts a Hamilton title at risk, especially given Vettel was crawling all over the back of him. You’d just pit if you actuslly wanted hamtion to win to not risk ever going ahead of him.
At the time of the race I had made a fan-video of Timo Glock (I think I posted it like a few months before it happened) and the amount of hate not only towards Glock but to me (I did receive death-treats) directed was crazy. I disabled comments and eventually choose to remove the video. People were very sensitive about this
Wait till you see what Simone Biles had to go through... same story really. Black athlete enters a sport dominated by whites and gets hated for succeeding regardless.
Heikki Kovalainen thought he was a better driver and did not want hamilton to win anything.alonso started it same reason as hamiltons teammate.toyota wanted credit because of all the time and money they wasted in f1. accomplishing nothing
I can remember watching that race live & being in tears of joy for Massa when he "won" & Ferrari & Massa's family started celebrating, then more tears when Lewis crossed the line to win the title & pip Felipe instead ...... What amazes me is that people are surprised that Glock was so much slower on the last lap after all that extra rain came down at the end & those who say he let Lewis by need to consider the fact that the "last corner" is at the bottom of the hill which is the climb up to the "start/finish straight" .... well, when it rains what happens to the water ? It rolls DOWN HILL, so is it any surprise that it was so much harder to control, slow & accelerate an F1 car at the BOTTOM OF THE HILL where the rain water would be far more concentrated ?
You forgot the most important point ! That Glock claimed he needed to go slow in the final lap in order to save fuel. So, he could be assured of finishing the race with all important points. But, even the TV announcers, during the race AND post race, said that Glock had taken on more than enough fuel during his last pit stop. So, in the opinion of both groups of TV announcers, and millions of other people, and myself,.... the FIA Scrutineering Officials should have checked the amount of fuel inside Timo Glock's car to see if he was lying. My guess is that Glock had lots& lots of fuel left. That there was absolutely NO reason Timo needed to go 20 seconds slower in the final lap. ....Other than to personally hand Lewis a F1 Championship that he did not legitimately earn. I find it absolutely shocking that you didn't even bring up that blatantly obvious point of "amount of fuel in Timo Glock's car". What we all want, is that if someone won a Championship, that they did so in a legitimate manner. Lewis did not win the 2008 F1 title legitimately. Becuz, the F1 Stewards should hv checked Glock's fuel and they shud hv declared Timo's intentional slowing as unsportsmanlike, and that his actions played a massive role in tipping the scales of the outcome, in Lewis' favor in a disproportionate, unfair way. Massa should have been declared F1 champion late Sunday or Monday. I'm not from Brazil, I'm not from England, I'm from the neutral place of Minneapolis, Minnesota.
The only reason why Massa lost his championship imo (through no fault of his own) was Singapore where a freak safety car and questionable Ferrari Master🅱lan™ (his fuel filler hose got stuck).
If this really had been a conspiracy and it was all preplanned, then Lewis would have deserved it even more for the foresight and ingenuity. But it's so ridiculous, if they had preplanned it, Glock would have pitted for inters like almost everyone else.
Indeed it is the "Aguerroooo!" moment. I also like pointing out that on BBC Radio, David Croft missed Glock being passed. The entire time his commentary was focused solely on whether Hamilton could repass Vettel (James Allen, like many of us, struggled at that time to pronounce his name, knowing it was German, I also pronounced it Vet-ell, like Matt-ell for the toy company, leading to Martin Brundle briefly getting a new catchphrase, "Vettle as in Kettle!"), while Brundle on ITV immediately switched to monitoring Glock, another part of ITV's last broadcast that I remember. "Can you believe it, right now it's all down to whether Glock can handle the rain! Let's look at Glock's sector times - THEY'RE FINE! Sector 1 is fine! Hamilton is not going to get the championship right now!" Seeing Vettel pull away, Crofty assumed it was all over and was looking out of the comm box window describing the Brazilians celebrating. Then he looked back to the screen to commiserate with Hamilton finishing only sixth, and presumably lament his loss, "As Felipe Massa, with Hamilton finishing only sixth, is World Champion... NO! LEWIS HAMILTON'S UP TO FIFTH! LEWIS HAMILTON HAS MADE IT UP TO FIFTH!" Sky never mention that, it's all about Martin and "Is that Glock?!" Much as we were hopping mad in our house with that result it was obvious that it was just a gamble that sort of did/sort of didn't work. If Toyota had pitted both cars we wouldn't be here. We could see on the graphics what Glock was trying, and Brundle was monitoring Glock for the whole last few laps as the rain fell, noting that Glock was ahead of Hamilton and Vettel having not pitted, while "Trulli did not pass them and is going slower", so Hamilton "has got to keep Vettel behind him". Ferrari did nothing wrong on the day, but pissed the title away for Felipe with bad reliability in Hungary and finger trouble in Singapore in the pits via manual light control, which the FIA seem to have decided would be a way of introducing randomness this year with these sensor rules that screwed Red Bull in Italy and McLaren in Russia. We may be 'ABH', but we're not stupid. It grates on me when I hear this. Oh yeah, they're mates. Big deal! It's because the whole thing was too good to be true, last lap last race. There's an unconscious perception in all sports that competitors are too skilled to let it go down to the theoretical last point of score, so if it happens it must be fake. The 1985 Black Ball Final. The Patriots coming from behind to beat the Falcons in extra time. And so on. Add that to whichever competitor's tribe you're in, and that's a recipe for "Conspiracy!" cries. They're buddies, he let him win! Or which, after the "he got help 'cos of who his dad is, so that's why I lost, not' cos I bottled it" thing, I'm now calling the 'Ticktum Defence'.
Except it isn’t. It’s Hamilton’s. People go on about Piquet but forget that Massa spent more time facing backwards at Silverstone, had his engine conk out at Hungary and was later gifted a win at Spa.
@44Monster this too. Silverstone, Malaysia and Monaco did more for this championship than Singapore ever did. Plus Ferrari left the fuel hose in and that set him back as well
great points here people need to realize that although Hamilton was lucky on his first title he did put himself in a postion to take advantage of anything unexpected.
@@matthewcamina8508 i guess both, but saying that alot of, if not all champions and winners in all sports will have had a combination of luck and tallents to do the wining
@@minibus9 that’s a very fair point. I think on balance luck tends to even itself out over a season or two. Massa was gifted a win in Spa but then his team let him down in Singapore that year. That being said, the best do have a knack of being lucky more often that not!
That "pincha la rueda de Hamilton" website was actually a fair bit worse, as I remember seeing it at the time.
The more apt translation was "puncture Hamilton's tyre" and it was in effect a track map/voodoo doll thing, where people could put up angry messages connected to virtual nails placed on the track surface.
Kind of glad it isn't around any more, as when I did read it as as a Spanish speaker, it was a best angry invective and at worst an incitement to racially motivated violence.
Thank god Massa didn't win a WDC, he was not a good driver at all outside 2008
What a despicable thing to do. Absolute opposite of a sportsman's behavior.
There's a listing for it on wayback machine, but its not loading properly for me. Seems to be Flash based. No surprise given the era.
@@dxfifa -- -- I mean, the same argument could be made about Damon Hill, and Jacques Villeneuve, and Jenson Button, and Keke Rosberg... Alan Jones... Jody Scheckter... Mario Andretti... Emerson Fittipaldi... Denny Hulme... Jack Brabham... (I think I've made my point). Felipe Massa had 269 starts (nice), and scored 11 wins and 41 podiums during his career; he also had 16 pole positions and scored 1,167 points. Every single World Champion who I just named off did roughly about as good, with only a few doing slightly better, but close enough that it's a fair comparison. Several among those I listed did far WORSE than Massa's career record. Take Button, with 306 starts... 15 wins, 50 podiums, 8 poles, 1,235 career points, so he's about as good. Jack Brabham... sure, only 126 starts, but he raced for about the same number of years and got 14 wins, 31 podiums and 13 poles... for TWO World Championships. Is it a fair comparison? I don't know, he raced in an era with no wings for downforce, so its hard to say. He's no Jim Clark, who got 25 wins, 31 podiums and 33 poles in his meager 72 starts, but I mean, who is? Mika Häkkinen took 96 starts to get his first win, Massa did it in only 84... Häkkinen then went on to score his next 19 wins in only 65 starts, but during a period when McLaren just DOMINATED the rest of the field. Massa, was in a Ferrari during a period when, they were really just... crap. So... Häkkinen is a two time World Champion, and Massa... isn't.
Then, let's look at Massa's career as a whole, because a lot of time it just comes down to nothing more than luck. Massa was the Formula Renault and the European Champion of 2000. Then, he won the Euro Formula 3000 in 2001. Goes to Sauber in 2002 and scores 4 points, including a 5th place finish... IN A SAUBER. Doesn't race in 2003. Comes back in 2004 and scores 12 points with a 4th place finish. In 2005 he scores another 11 points which outscores his Sauber teammate... *World Champion Jacques Villeneuve.* Then, in 2006, Massa, starts with Ferrari, where his teammate is some dude called... Michael Schumacher... still, he finishes third in the Championship behind winner Alonso and teammate Schumacher. Massa also gets his first win in Turkey. In 2007, Schumy retires and his teammate becomes wunderkind Kimi Räikkönen... crap. He's up against now World Champion Kimi Räikkönen again in 2008, where Massa out drives him and ALMOST wins the World Championship, but places 2nd. Come to think of it, how good was Kimi? Let's see... 349 starts (holy cow), but only 21 wins, and 18 poles... and an ungodly 103 podiums and a career 1,873 points (okay, pretty good). Räikkönen is again his teammate in 2009 and then... finally, in 2010, Räikkönen goes away, and Massa can now show the world what he's got as Ferraris' number one driver. Who are they going to bring over as their #2? Ah... two time World Champion Fernando Alonso... crap. Also crap... Ferraris' cars, even Alonso can't win a championship with them. Let's back up a bit though.
On July 25th, 2009, Massa is injured by a spring that fell of Ruben Barrichello's car. Massa was struck in the head and his helmet did little to stop the spring from penetrating his skull, which had to be reinforced with a titanium plate. Massa was out for the remainder of the season. He had to retest with the FIA to prove he could still drive and, on their maiden race of the year in 2010, he came in second behind his teammate Alonso. However, most of the other drivers and others at team Ferrari stated that, Massa was never quite the same ever again.
So, yeah, I know I dedicated (a really long) four paragraphs to your single sentence blurb... 7 months after the fact... but I just wanted to demonstrate that, in fact, Massa was a very good driver, on Championship pace and it would not have been a shame if he had won the Championship anywhere along the way. He was an accomplished driver, with a solid record to prove it. He just kept being placed with teammates who were World Champions themselves, including a two time winner and, at the time, the guy with the greatest record in Formula One's entire history. So, yeah... he didn't match up to those guys (or, when he did, team orders told him to move aside and let them win instead _"Fernado is faster than you"_ anyone?.. but he was a sight better than just about everyone else on the track during that period. Had they not been there, Massa would have easily won a championship for himself, anywhere between 2006 and 2012, and perhaps could have even been a two time or three time World Champion in his own right. Besides those three incredible drivers, nobody else could really touch him. Remove those three drivers, and Massa wins a hell of a lot more than 11 Grand Prix races, and quite a few more podiums, points and poles to boot.
Okay... rant over.
@@thebonesaw..4634 minimising Massa's failures doesn't make them go away
I remember Martin Brundle saying that the conspiracy really irritated Glock because he hated Hamilton and wouldn't move over for him ever
I don’t think I ever thought about how Glock would have felt about the conspiracy due to it all being nonsense. But yeah, Glock should hate this stupidity more than anyone and this might be the only thing he’s remembered for in F1 in years to come. Harsh!
I’ve never heard that brundle quote but always thought Glock would never let Hamilton through due to their rivalry in the lower formulas
@@jairajsinghshaktawat6593 What’s your counter argument? That Glock stayed out on dry tyres in order to benefit Hamilton.
Norris and Leclerc are perfect evidence of why it’s impossible to drive in the wet on dry tyres.
@@jairajsinghshaktawat6593 Stating that two drivers don’t get on is hardly a sign of bias. It’s a well-known fact that Hamilton doesn’t get on with several German drivers, Vettel being the exception.
@@bfapple several? The only one I knew of was Rosberg (and now Glock) but I think they’ve patched things up now considering that they went on vacation together not too long ago
I still think Massa wakes up in a cold sweat hearing “IS THAT GLOCK!?!?” in his head
Probably in portuguese ^^
If Felipe still dreams about that, he'd rather hear his team radio of that moment...
But if I had to guess what causes him nightmares, I would say his "Valtteri, it's James" moments might take a higher spot in that regard.
I think Massa is probably waking up to mistakes Ferrari did on his car that year a lot more than this one race where he actually won outright... He should also have those cold sweats about 2007 when he could won the chip if his car didn't get DSQd in France which forced him into a driver #2 position for the rest of the year
"I don't know Jeff has it? Glock moving slow? I must've missed that."
*Looks back at the track*
“You’re right I saw going wide but I thought he’d had an engine problem Jeff!”
Hearing how Kammy often speaks now with his health problems really saddens me.
In fact, Glock was actually lucky at that time the dry tyres were grooved or he would've ended up like Lando a lot sooner... Believe me, as a tifosi it hurts to say but Glock had no fault for Hamilton's WDC, it was entirelly to Ferrari and the way they sacked their WDC in title...
Grove tyres back in thoses days would not transfer water as a real inter or full wets because the groves are vertical and have no scoops within the groves. In fact the tyres has less contact patches (the way to slow them down)
@@gpstoner1338 Yes and no. Obviously, it will never displace water but when in wet conditions other than a downpour, the grooves will keep some water within and allow you to have some rubber in contact with the tarmac. On the other hand, a full slick will hydroplane much sooner than a grooved tyre cause the surface is completely flat and will have no contact area with the track.
That's a load of rubbish. Grooved tires were worse than slicks in the dry. Ask David Coulthard. The rain built up in the grooves and lifted the tire, because there was no where for the rain to go.
@@weallfollowmanutd Grooved tires are better than true slicks in damp conditions. Once you get into anything truly "wet" they're no better and no worse than full slicks.
I'm sure I've seen slicks would have been quick because the groves and harder componed cool's down quicker
Idiots who didn't realise Glock had sod all grip and was JUST keeping it on the road to the end. I'm amazed he didn't slither off many corners before.
Great Racing driver who never got a Real Chance
The fact Glock could keep his car on track at a circuit like Interlagos with cars that didn't generate as much downforce as they do today and were lighter than today's cars shows his talent.
The fact Ferrari didn't protest shows there was no conspiracy (since they used to protest ANYTHING if they thought they could get away with it) and Massa showed he was a gentleman in accepting defeat. Shame his "fans" (and the haters) couldn't do the same.
Ferrari used to protest things nobody else could have got away with
@@timbrewin9241 They also used to get away with things no one else could have got away with in those days :)
@@wolfhead74 Shame for them it looks like Liberty Media doesn't seem to really give a toss what Ferrari thinks anymore.
Massa holds the title of the most honourable defeat I have ever seen.
Maximum respect.
@@teabagtowers3823 lmao what? Ferrari still get a shitload of bonuses in F1 for just being “Ferrari”. They get veto power, and they get a huge amount of money compared to everyone else.
Can’t wait for “Lando moved over!! TOTO called Zak Brown and said ‘if you don’t give loois his 100th win no engines for you’”
Believe me, I have already seen some idiots state this... Saying its 'McLaren securing a good working relationship with Merc ahead of next year'
@@volrath__ sadly the most outspoken fans nowadays are the dumbest one
Shhh! don't give them idea lol
Loois xD
Lando moved over, and then moved over a bit more… and then a bit too much
I always put this down to a conspiracy which is straight up a coping mechanism for Massa fans (or anti-Hamilton fans) and not one that any true follower of F1 believes. I bet anyone who really believes it does not even know Glock was on slicks.
Probably doesn't even know which car Glock was driving...
I definitely believed it in my youth at the time (I was 6), and told everyone that would listen. So I could be the culprit to be honest. Sorry about that! I am now a smarter man
All someone need is to watch the onboard in the official F1 channel, you can see that he was figthing to stay on track.
Agreed, but they didn't release this for many years which is why people kept this "conspiracy" alive for so long. Glock got overtaken by loads of people.
@@craighawley3920 I hated that moment when he passed glock to win the title.
but looking back I remember Michael moved over for Vettel, he even spoke loudly he gonna do it if that will win Sebastian the championship.
I know it's two different situation and circumstances but why have problem with one and not the other?
@@fireinthenight9028 a lot of people hated Hamilton being big Ferrari fans or Alonso fans in the same way Seb got hate when he was winning all the time. The issue seems to be he went from the local lad who was the underdog to utter domination which annoyed even more people. He doesn’t seem the sort of guy you would go for a beer with any more. Then obviously there are some people that are just racist but I think too many get accused of that when they give Lewis any sort of criticism. People complained about what Michael said at the time about Seb and I didn’t like Seb but he seems to have humbled and now is the F1 fans golden child. I have a soft spot for Seb now and during his WDC domination I hated him shooting for a 5 sec lead two laps in to win easily.
You can even watch Glock’s onboard from that last lap and you can CLEARLY see how tricky it was out there as the rain began to belt down while he is on dry tyres. th-cam.com/video/fhH93grvh84/w-d-xo.html
I loved the term "Glockblocked" that made the rounds at the time.
I might be on crack, but wasn't there an onboard shot of Glock/Trulli showing him/them ice-skating all over the track??
It’s on the official f1 channel.
@@AidanMillward Good to know I'm not on crack after all...
2:34 He learned from the mistake he made in China the year before, of pushing for the highest possible result when there’s no need to.
That was his team. They were waiting to see if they needed to switch him to inters or a fresh set of dry tires. They waited too long and lost the championship in the process
People always look at Glock costing Massa that title, but in reality it was Renault and Piquet who robbed Massa of the title with crashgate in Singapore. If Piquet doesn’t crash you don’t have the chaos of the SC Pit stops where Massa goes too soon and drags the fuel hose down pit lane…
"Is that bottas!? Is that bottas going slowly!? it is!"
And verstappen gets past.
Not salty, just a Williams fan finally watching another driver move over other than Russell.
I remember I was watching the live timing - both Glock and Trulli suddenly went slower in S2 than the previous laps - both by IIRC 18S. Anyone watching Lando last weekend will see how quick an F1 on slicks goes from "Almost as fast as wets" to "impossible to keep on track" - the same happened in Brazil.
The other moment in 2008 for me was Spa - what are your thoughts about that? I remember being livid at the time with the penalty - it seemed very engineered to close up the championship. I was glad Hamilton won that year, as Massa winning by a point or 2 would have felt unjust.
All you have to do is watch the onboard from Glocks final lap to know there was no conspiracy. I think if this were to happen today there would be no confusion, but races even back then were harder to follow and the cameras were just following Lewis/Seb not Glock, so when he appeared seemingly out of nowhere on the final corner it was very surprising.
You know, those who want to see this being true will be able to find the single frame of the footage that proves their "theory"...
I'll add my 2 cents on how the situation circa 08 was in Spain. You gotta remember that pre-Alonso, Spain didn't have great drivers (DLR was the best, and he was below average). To give you an idea of how impactful Alonso was, until 04, F1 was not nationally televised (it had been in the 90s) and the only way to watch it was by paying or living in Catalonia because Catalan TV did have it; but after Alonso's success in 03, a major channel bought the rights. So, as you may imagine, the only people really covering F1 at a national level were massively in favour of FA. And it was made worst by the second commentator, Gonzalo Serrano, who would just bash everyone that wasn't Alonso and would spew conspiracy theories left right and center. It was funny, him throwing "the McLaren engine goes beyond the 19k rpm limit!" in front of DLR, who was also part of the commentating team. Needles to say, there was an automatic hatred for Hamilton, which then went to Vettel; all the way inexplicably the FIA would always benefit whoever was in a title fight against FA, pretty much convincing a country pre-contemporary Internet environment that there was a conspiracy against Alonso, because he was clearly superior, the "driver-engineer" that was gonna win a la Michael when he joined Ferrari, because "he was gonna tell Ferrari how to do things properly". That's not an exaggeration, that's a quote from my dad.
Little FYI: "Pincha" in that context would mean "puncture", so yeah, would've been a dumb flash game of clicking the tyre to make it blow up.
Very apt after seeing Norris lose 25 seconds in a coupe of corners on Sunday in the rain on slicks.
It definitely is F1’s Ageuroooooooo moment
If THE Alonso, who can't stop bad mouthing everyone who's successful, and if THE Ferrari, who can't go a weekend without protest, didn't bother, people definitely don't need to 😂
Yeah, he does come across as still being salty over 07.
Hey aidan a pressing issues on alonso cutting t2 at Russia would be great. Love to hear your views on that piece of driving.
Alonso: Stop letting people cut the track on lap one, it's complete bullshit.
FiA: Leave me alone I know what to do!
Alonso: it do go down.
@@ImBarryScottCSS lmfao bravo
Some how within the rules. but not very pretty or sporting.
@@bourbonslurpee It was absolutely legal, regarding the rules. He went into the corer as 4th and left it on the same position. And the way he performed it was admirably precise. Regarding the "sporting" aspect, well, it was as sporting as the sporting regulations he followed.
@@Timberwolf69 I agree with everything you said but just want to clear up that I think rule its self was unsporting not Alonsos use of the rule. I also wasn't aware when I made my first comment that Alonso already had a back story of lobbying against this rule.
The conspiracy theory started instantaneously. I was a member of an F1 forum at the time and there were many people making the claim straight away. There were claims of Dennis paying for Glock to move over etc. I remember arguing with many of them, pointing out the basic logistics of communications etc but to no avail.
It came from Ferrari fans, sobbing their eyes out, looking for someone to blame.
And all of Brazil (who were Ferrari fans by default)
"The 2021 Formula One season will be remembered for a long time", this aged like fine wine!
The stupidest thing about the conspiracy is that if Glock wanted Hamilton to win the championship there was no reason to "take a dive", all he had to do was pit for intermediate tires like everyone else did and avoid passing Hamilton in the first place.
#TimoGlockdidn'tpurposefullycrashintoHamilton #BanTimo
I can tell you when and where it statrted. My dad (who isn't a Ham fan) immediately said Glock let him through as it happened live. He had his mind made up before Hamilton even crossed the finish line.
Fucking boomers man
I always loved this particular conspiracy because it allows stupid people to out themselves so easily. Glock pits, Lewis wins, Glock stays out, Lewis wins, somehow out of that Glock is made out to be the bad guy. In actuality Glock did the only thing possible to stop Hamilton winning the title, if he comes in for wets like everyone else Lewis wins by default, the only chance Massa had was for someone to stay out and try and make it to the end before Hamilton, Glock gave Massa a chance and for that he has been demonised by the absolute, categorical, worst fans in all of sport, the Brazilians.
The confusion and bitter disappointment in the Ferrari garage, especially on Massa's dads face and body language really hit home... That this was my favourite sporting moment of all time! I never could stand Massa. I can't even pinpoint why, he just gets my back up.
I felt for Massa’s old man more than his son . What a gutter
The Guardian, if I remember correctly.
(If I remember correctly they published a list of 4 drivers each who would be likely to “help” Hamilton and Massa on the day of the race. Massa’s, if I remember correctly, had at least Webber and Heidfeld, and Hamilton’s had Glock, Trulli, and I think Rosberg…).
Well, there's your answer.
People like you, posting videos like this 👌
Toyota didn't stop Trulli either, but likely Glock had a 5 sec advantage on lap 69 because he was farther ahead and had better conditions for that lap only. Typical Toyota strategy blunder, which saddened this Toyota F1 fan, not as much as Bahrain 2009...
They gained a position with that strategy,it was a good one.Glock was running 7 th before rain and because of not changing tyres,finished 6th.Good strategy.
It wasn't actually a blunder. Glock gained a position, unless the rain suddenly stopped he was never going to get higher. Toyota made the correct choice, it just seems like the incorrect one because of the last corner drama. But in the end going from 7th to 6th over a strategy is still a net gain.
The rain coming down harder right at the end messed up Toyota's plan to keep them both out. They did get more points than they would have if they had pitted either car, but the goal was to get Glock to 4th.
I just love your channel man. There is a clear difference in your approach, your talking/script and style, compared to other popular creators like Tommo, Aldas, Perspective and of course Josh Revell.
The algorithm brought me here but damn I‘m happy about it! Keep it up, you‘re doing great!
7:32 That didn't age well.
I wish some of the current F1 drivers on the grid get the chance to drive THE BEST CAR at least one time in theirs careers, while the Sir drove 9 times THE BEST CAR already (2007, 2014-2021), no other driver in history comes somewhere close to that.
💙Aguero. Well I didn't expect THAT reference on this channel. My eyes still water 10yrs later on just hearing that commentary, and if you've noticed the numbers City are wearing this season, are the digital ones used for 93:20. Back on topic, it's precisely this kind of race that should teach younger fans just why most love wet weather F1 racing. It's not about the worry of crashing, drivers have never been safer. It's because all the rules of form and expected outcomes go right out of the window. It's about as exciting as F1 can get.
This is one of the stupidest thing F1 fans can believe.
It's about as logical as Lando Norris giving Hamilton the win at Sochi as McLaren are Mercedes engine customers.
Max as champiion right now comes just in time for us Brazilians like a late but finally sweet revenge. Don't get me wrong, I do love Hamilton, but
If Damon Hill fans have to let go of 1994, you can let go of 2008. 😅
Latifi has become the new Glock in the eyes of Mercedes/Lewis/other non-Verstappen fans smh.
Haha that title had me chuckling before I even watched the video.
Greatly enjoyed! Didn't Glock also say he was deliberately driving off line as to avoid slippery wet rubber on the track in the corners?
To me, the conspiracy comes from him being black and people thinking F1 was pushing him to win for marketing. I do think pro sports are rigged though so who knows
@@jairajsinghshaktawat6593 bruh did you even watch the video?
@@jairajsinghshaktawat6593 do you think Toyota (F1 team based in Germany) intentionally screwed Glock (a German driver) to gift Hamilton (British) a WDC?
That Williams top is fire!
I think it was started here in Spain becuase of spanish press media, because of Alonso's obvious thing.
The 2008 championship left many Ferrari fans butthurt. Massa was a second rate driver driving a very good car and also getting scandalously all the help he could get from the FIA to be crowned Champion with Hamilton getting every penalty he could get in order for Massa to be close. That last lap in Brazil was just justice from God as Hamilton should have taken that championship earlier and I enjoyed every second of these Ferrari salty tears. I can't believe the sheer stupidity of some people that would propose that Glock should deliberately take Hamilton out just because he hated him. Or the sheer stupidity to think Glock was able to drive with slicks in a full rain torrent. As I said earlier I enjoyed their tears and I enjoy it till today cause a Mclaren driver destroyed every single record of their precious Michael Schumacher.
This was 10 years before I was even remotely interested in F1, but I love these old stories, it’s why I watch your videos after all. The “Is that Glock” moment always reminds me of the 2017 Supercars finale, it’s the only time I’ve ever watched such a close title fight live. I would love to hear your take on that season one day. The F3 finale last year almost had a crazy ending, champion Piastri passed a car just as he crossed the line, however he was already in position to win the title before that, by one point.
If Lando in the closing laps of the Russian GP is any indication, slicks + rain = NO BUENO. I don't know how much more wet the Sochi track was vs Interlagos in 2008, but the fact that Glock made it to the finish line and didn't bin his Toyota is a feat in its own. These conspiracy theories are ridiculous. No driver will purposely let another driver by for position on the final lap. These are fierce competitors who hate losing.
I think this topic will be interesting - was Max Mosley imposing the $100M fine on McLaren for the Spygate scandal just a personal vendetta against Ron Dennis (hence the claim that it was $5M for the offense and $95M for Ron being a twat), whom along with Frank Williams was leading the charge against the FIA by forming the GPWC back in 2001.
Agreed . Does anybody know what RD is doing nowadays ?
@@johngriffiths118 He's the founder of McLaren Automotive (McLaren sells road cars now) and I believe he still plays a leading role in the company. Forgot what position he still holds. He's also a major donor to the Conservative Party of the UK.
I don't understand why is this is (or was) even argued. I myself as a Brazilian wasn't pleased with the 2008 championship result, but I don't whine about it. Unfortunately the 2009 accident meant that Massa was never the same, which makes it a big what if in my head.
Glocks grip decided to f off that's what happened HE DIDNT MOVE HE TRIED TO TURN BUT F ALL GRIP DECIDED TO BE A D BAG
The biggest controversy happened at Monaco, '66. If Jeff Jordan had let Aaron retire with a janky transmission when he wanted to, Stoddard would never have crashed out of the race, nearly dying in the process. There. I said it. Jeff Jordan was to blame. I'll die on this hill.
The conspiracy theory is absolute nonsense. What is the agenda of those who repeat it, to delegitimize Hamilton's first championship? If that is the case, then how many of Schumacher's championships are illegitimate, given that his teammates moved over for him, even when team orders were explicitly illegal?
I will agree with one statement though; that was the most exciting ending of a sports story. Unlike the Miracle on Ice or the 1986 Mets, this was down to the absolute final moment; whereas the Miracle on Ice was a Semi-Final game and the ball going through Buckner's legs tied the World Series, which the Mets won in game 7.
Surely Michael Thomas for Arsenal v Liverpool is more apt .b1st v 2nd Bigger game , Bigger teams, more people watched . The game that heralded The Premier League and Live Football League matches, as before that game , League matches were never shown live on television.
I was watching that race live and remember thinking "the f*** is the Massa family celebrating, the race is not over yet". Whoever thinks it's a conspiracy didn't watch the race. The recent Russian GP is a perfect analogy of what can happen with sudden rain in the final laps. I remember Vettel passing cars like sitting ducks with the wets. Add the fact that Interlagos actually has elevation changes and staying on dries proved to be a recipe for disaster.
Where I live we have a word for jixning it by celebrating too early (usually applies to football): "mufa"
There was a lot of "mufa" in that Ferrari garage that day ^^
Aidan Milward- Conspiracy theory debunker
I was scrolling down reading comments when I found 1 about Hamilton with 44 thumbs up, followed by an Alonso post with 14.
.....I know, freaky as.
Best moment in history is when Ferrari thought they won and then their faces fell. Oh that was priceless.
A couple of controversies that stick in my mind, but don't get mentioned very often are the 1960 Italian Grand Prix and the 1975 Spanish Grand Prix. Let's discuss the first one initially.
Although it went down in history as the last win for a front engined F1 car, it was far from glorious. By the time of the 1960 running of the Italian Grand Prix, the penultimate round, Ferrari were winless and the prospects looked grim for them. The organisers must have thought so too, so on the eve of the race, they changed the layout to tip the balance in Ferrari's favour, by using the full track, including the banking (utilising the only advantage they had, straight line speed). The rest of the field, knowing how dangerous the banking was at Monza, threatened to boycott the race in response to what they saw as blatant Italian nationalism if they didn't revert to the road course. No such reversal was forthcoming, so the field was reduced to mostly Ferraris.
If people think the 2005 US Grand Prix was a messy affair, they've got nothing on the 1975 Spanish Grand Prix. Staged at the Montjuich Park Street circuit in Barcelona, the venue of the Spanish Grand Prix alternated between Jarama and Montjuich Park between 1969 and 1975. Safety was the biggest concern going into the 1975 Spanish Grand Prix. The biggest concern was the barriers lining the track. When the teams arrived in Spain, they noticed that not only were the barriers inadequately bolted together, but the posts weren't properly embedded into the ground. The teams and drivers called for it to be rectified before the cars were driven in anger. However, far addressing the issues, the regime in Spain at the time, under the dictatorship of Francisco Franco, was not conducive to making these changes. Instead they doubled down, pointing out that if the teams failed to race, they'd be in breach of contract and the cars impounded, jeopodising the championship if it went to court. The teams were in effect blackmailed into racing in unsafe conditions, drivers did the minimum participation, legally, to say they attempted (like Emerson Fittipaldi, the defending champion at the time) and still others took the start, but much reduced from the norm. The race was stopped 5 laps after Rolf Stomellen, who had been leading, lost his rear wing cresting a rise. The car vaulted over one of the barriers and into a spectator area. Spectators were killed and injured and the driver suffered a broken leg. Jochen Mass took his first and only win and with half points awarded, Lella Lombardi became the first (and so far only) woman to score a world championship point in 6th place when the race was stopped
The conspiracy is nonsense. If Glock and Toyota wanted Hamilton to win the title, why would you stay out? That’s the one thing at that moment that puts a Hamilton title at risk, especially given Vettel was crawling all over the back of him. You’d just pit if you actuslly wanted hamtion to win to not risk ever going ahead of him.
I just absolutely love your Channel!
Just the best coverage of different things in F1/Motorsports
"...lap 69 - nice" you got me there
Wow at the black face public display by Spanish fans. That’s pretty low.
Guarantee this video was immediately demontized from the title having “glock” lol
The ful version of the great minds think alike saying is
Great minds think alike, small minds rarely differ
So it's still accurate
I'll never forget that Ferrari member chucking his peanut into the plexi
At the time of the race I had made a fan-video of Timo Glock (I think I posted it like a few months before it happened) and the amount of hate not only towards Glock but to me (I did receive death-treats) directed was crazy. I disabled comments and eventually choose to remove the video. People were very sensitive about this
Damn I enjoy this type video getting ready for work....
The current crop of Formula 1 "fans" are completely toxic!!
Seriously, the amount of hate Lewis always had to take from the beginning is amazing..
Wait till you see what Simone Biles had to go through... same story really. Black athlete enters a sport dominated by whites and gets hated for succeeding regardless.
Hamilton haters and people who have no idea what the hell they're talking about.
Sometimes they may overlap
Heikki Kovalainen thought he was a better driver and did not want hamilton to win anything.alonso started it same reason as hamiltons teammate.toyota wanted credit because of all the time and money they wasted in f1. accomplishing nothing
Last corner last race last lap what's the quote from Bernie during an interview on pit lane before one of the races
Glock should have been fined for moving over without indicating.😁
For mine favourite era and year awesome stuff Aidan love ❤️ it
I can remember watching that race live & being in tears of joy for Massa when he "won" & Ferrari & Massa's family started celebrating, then more tears when Lewis crossed the line to win the title & pip Felipe instead ......
What amazes me is that people are surprised that Glock was so much slower on the last lap after all that extra rain came down at the end & those who say he let Lewis by need to consider the fact that the "last corner" is at the bottom of the hill which is the climb up to the "start/finish straight" .... well, when it rains what happens to the water ? It rolls DOWN HILL, so is it any surprise that it was so much harder to control, slow & accelerate an F1 car at the BOTTOM OF THE HILL where the rain water would be far more concentrated ?
Rumours would have it a brief case exchanged hands the next morning in a Brazilian cafe 🤷♂️
Massa lost the championship with that pit stop disaster in Singapore, not at the last race. He did all he could. Win the race
Just watch the onboard of his last lap and you will see he was struggling the whole lap
Dave from Salisbury probably!!!
Lol
You forgot the most important point ! That Glock claimed he needed to go slow in the final lap in order to save fuel. So, he could be assured of finishing the race with all important points. But, even the TV announcers, during the race AND post race, said that Glock had taken on more than enough fuel during his last pit stop. So, in the opinion of both groups of TV announcers, and millions of other people, and myself,.... the FIA Scrutineering Officials should have checked the amount of fuel inside Timo Glock's car to see if he was lying. My guess is that Glock had lots& lots of fuel left. That there was absolutely NO reason Timo needed to go 20 seconds slower in the final lap. ....Other than to personally hand Lewis a F1 Championship that he did not legitimately earn. I find it absolutely shocking that you didn't even bring up that blatantly obvious point of "amount of fuel in Timo Glock's car". What we all want, is that if someone won a Championship, that they did so in a legitimate manner. Lewis did not win the 2008 F1 title legitimately. Becuz, the F1 Stewards should hv checked Glock's fuel and they shud hv declared Timo's intentional slowing as unsportsmanlike, and that his actions played a massive role in tipping the scales of the outcome, in Lewis' favor in a disproportionate, unfair way. Massa should have been declared F1 champion late Sunday or Monday. I'm not from Brazil, I'm not from England, I'm from the neutral place of Minneapolis, Minnesota.
I’ll take stuff that never happened for $1000, Alex.
Btw "pincha la rueda de Hamilton" actually means "puncture Hamilton's tyre", not "click".
Google translate y?
The only reason why Massa lost his championship imo (through no fault of his own) was Singapore where a freak safety car and questionable Ferrari Master🅱lan™ (his fuel filler hose got stuck).
had to remind me about my childhood hero crashing on his last race :(
If this really had been a conspiracy and it was all preplanned, then Lewis would have deserved it even more for the foresight and ingenuity. But it's so ridiculous, if they had preplanned it, Glock would have pitted for inters like almost everyone else.
here in Brazil it was instantly after it happened.
I still like the 2007 final race better 🥶😎🇫🇮
Rumour has it Massa has a Glock Voodoo doll !
2:34 God those cars were exquisite!
glock should have been banned from F1 for life he did throw the race. glock should be in jail
Except he didn't. Grow up.
Indeed it is the "Aguerroooo!" moment. I also like pointing out that on BBC Radio, David Croft missed Glock being passed. The entire time his commentary was focused solely on whether Hamilton could repass Vettel (James Allen, like many of us, struggled at that time to pronounce his name, knowing it was German, I also pronounced it Vet-ell, like Matt-ell for the toy company, leading to Martin Brundle briefly getting a new catchphrase, "Vettle as in Kettle!"), while Brundle on ITV immediately switched to monitoring Glock, another part of ITV's last broadcast that I remember. "Can you believe it, right now it's all down to whether Glock can handle the rain! Let's look at Glock's sector times - THEY'RE FINE! Sector 1 is fine! Hamilton is not going to get the championship right now!" Seeing Vettel pull away, Crofty assumed it was all over and was looking out of the comm box window describing the Brazilians celebrating. Then he looked back to the screen to commiserate with Hamilton finishing only sixth, and presumably lament his loss, "As Felipe Massa, with Hamilton finishing only sixth, is World Champion... NO! LEWIS HAMILTON'S UP TO FIFTH! LEWIS HAMILTON HAS MADE IT UP TO FIFTH!" Sky never mention that, it's all about Martin and "Is that Glock?!"
Much as we were hopping mad in our house with that result it was obvious that it was just a gamble that sort of did/sort of didn't work. If Toyota had pitted both cars we wouldn't be here. We could see on the graphics what Glock was trying, and Brundle was monitoring Glock for the whole last few laps as the rain fell, noting that Glock was ahead of Hamilton and Vettel having not pitted, while "Trulli did not pass them and is going slower", so Hamilton "has got to keep Vettel behind him". Ferrari did nothing wrong on the day, but pissed the title away for Felipe with bad reliability in Hungary and finger trouble in Singapore in the pits via manual light control, which the FIA seem to have decided would be a way of introducing randomness this year with these sensor rules that screwed Red Bull in Italy and McLaren in Russia. We may be 'ABH', but we're not stupid. It grates on me when I hear this. Oh yeah, they're mates. Big deal! It's because the whole thing was too good to be true, last lap last race.
There's an unconscious perception in all sports that competitors are too skilled to let it go down to the theoretical last point of score, so if it happens it must be fake. The 1985 Black Ball Final. The Patriots coming from behind to beat the Falcons in extra time. And so on. Add that to whichever competitor's tribe you're in, and that's a recipe for "Conspiracy!" cries. They're buddies, he let him win! Or which, after the "he got help 'cos of who his dad is, so that's why I lost, not' cos I bottled it" thing, I'm now calling the 'Ticktum Defence'.
Every single commentator from around the world noticed Glock… except Croft.
I've always found it sad that Brazil '08 was Massa's last win
Massa was robbed of his well-deserved world champion title 😡!
By who?
Ferrari not protesting - end of. 😏
Was the worst day of f1 in the last 14 years. The first of many many undeserved titles
It was nearly fifteen years ago, you should probably get over it.
Red Bull fanboys
What a race that was !!!
The title was decided when Nelsiño crashed into a wall in Singapore. The 2008 title is rightly Massa’s.
Except it isn’t. It’s Hamilton’s.
People go on about Piquet but forget that Massa spent more time facing backwards at Silverstone, had his engine conk out at Hungary and was later gifted a win at Spa.
@44Monster this too. Silverstone, Malaysia and Monaco did more for this championship than Singapore ever did. Plus Ferrari left the fuel hose in and that set him back as well
I watched it live and I didn't think glock moved over
Until this morning I did nt even know there was a conspiracy theory around this
@@johngriffiths118 neither did I
BUT I CAN SEE WITH MY EYES!!!!
I don't care about facts.
Now, about that election thingy....
great points here people need to realize that although Hamilton was lucky on his first title he did put himself in a postion to take advantage of anything unexpected.
Lucky in this race or lucky across the season?
@@matthewcamina8508 i guess both, but saying that alot of, if not all champions and winners in all sports will have had a combination of luck and tallents to do the wining
@@minibus9 that’s a very fair point. I think on balance luck tends to even itself out over a season or two. Massa was gifted a win in Spa but then his team let him down in Singapore that year. That being said, the best do have a knack of being lucky more often that not!
@@matthewcamina8508Ferrari was just horrible simple, the driver deserved nothing.
How do you spin 5 times in Silverstone and want a title.