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Remaining Faithful, Throwing out Eternal Torment - Brad Jersak
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ก.พ. 2022
- Brad Jersak explains how he came to believe he could remain faithful to Christ while rejecting the eternal conscious torment view of hell.
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Im in my 50's and still recovering from non-intentional spiritual terrorism
Me, too, and even older than you. For me, it was harder to remain faithful if I DID believe in ECT.
Well put
I love that you can see it as non-intentional, I still feel a little deep anger at the possibility of being intentional for control and for money! However I have transmuted from hating religion to understanding that religion is a trauma response for those who need to put everything into boxes. Not matter I delight everyday that I found the journey and have unlocked so many limiting beliefs from religion that kept be still in the cave with no doors.
Amen, there should be Recovery meetings for former subscribers to the doctrine of ECT like CR or AA
I find it so strange that people don’t believe the Bible for what it says. Hell is a reality… If you believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible. Jesus and the apostles spoke about it. The Bible even talks about God’s wrath remaining on those who don’t know him. Somehow he loves people unconditionally, and his wrath remains on them at the same time. I don’t think you can have unconditional love without both God‘s holiness and his grace working together.
Greetings from Sollihøgda west of Oslo in Norway. I love your podcasts Brad and hope one day you visit Norway.
I agree with your message and I also listened to Michelle Amiraults Testimony
On TH-cam, Messiah revealed to a Jewish Woman. I can listen to that several times. What I liked about her testimony is first her Joy of knowing Jesus, then her fear of Eternal Torment for the rest of her family and for those who dont Believe. She then took the matter straight to God and He showed her this wonderful Good News of Reconcilliation. Finally she included her testimony as part of her Orbituary when she passed away 3 years ago.
God Bless you Brad.
Greetings from John Holby in Norway.
R.C.Sproul gave a sermon about how Christians will celebrate souls and relatives in Hell. Evil hearts find no problem in torture.
R.C Sproul was a Calvinist with seriously wrong doctrines.
The worst and most evil of people are found in the so-called Christian church more times than not.
@@linjicakonikon7666 Agreed, it truly takes an evil individual to think of such a vile concept.
I'm inclined to believe David Bentley Hart's Christian universalism as the only alternative that is true both to God's essence of love and scripture too. I think it is and will be impossible to eternally resist God's will because we are made in His image. I agree with Ravi Zacharias' argument against annihilationism which is God will not destroy that which is made on His image. God is not a destroyer anyway, Satan seeks to destroy, not God. God is about LIFE.
Funny enough, I never took the reality of “hell” (eternal conscious separation from God) seriously until I stopped believing in it. Now, in not believing it, I see it for how horrible of place/fate it would actually be, if it were real.
I never felt peace believing in eternal conscious torment. It's quite scary because I feel like eternal torment believers want non Jesus believers to go to eternal torment. I don't care who someone is or what they do in their life, I'll never wish eternal torment on anybody. God bless ya!
Exactly the same, Matt. It never dawned on me for a second, just how totally abusive and violent the doctrine is until I stepped away from it. Now it shocks me people not only readily believe it, but judge you as not following Jesus by virtue of not believing it. To help me be empathetic towards those who still believe it, I have to remind myself I once also believed it.
Some of the things back in the day I used to believe and say to people makes my toes curl 😢
“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: (Matthew 25:41, NKJV) Hell wasn't created for humans, but for the devil. Those who choose to give themselves to evil and against God and the gospel will go where the devil goes.
God is the savior of all mankind especially believers. 1 Tim 4:10 It's just that most so-called Christians don't believe 1 Tim 4:10 proving they are really unbelievers. How about you... Don't you BELIEVE 1 Tim 4:10?
❤️
Hebrews 11 29 says our God is a consuming fire ask yourself what does he consume if you do go to 1st Corinthians 3 verses 11 through 15 you will find that God consumes the wood hay and stubble that is the sinfulness in man but all will in the end be saved like escaping from a burning house where does hey consume the wood hay and stubble he consumes it in the fire of his presence the spiritual fire called the lake of pure who goes there see Revelations 21:8 it is the exact same teaching as the true Greek of Matthew 25 46 and these shall go away into great abiding castigation correction but the righteous and to great abiding life this is the teaching throughout the Bible if you go to Romans chapter 5 in Romans chapter 8 through 11 there you see without any shadow of a doubt Paul says any wraps it up in Romans 11:32 what do you say is God has concluded all under sin that he might have mercy on all
Perhaps one of you can help me with this because it’s a question that I’ve been lulling over some time now and i just can’t seem to find a straight answer. If god truly exists, and he sent his son to die for our sins and there isn’t a hell then what did he die for? I thought the whole Christian message is predicted on the idea of not wanting eternal torment and to be loved and acknowledged by your maker. This is something I’ve pondered on a bit. A large reason why I left my faith is because why on earth would god send his own children to hell? Thousands of years ago when Jesus died there were millions and millions of people around the earth who had no idea of the existence of him and died that way. It doesn’t make sense for all those millions of people to be sent to hell just for not knowing Jesus or following his precise teachings and rules and what not. And even now with our immense technological advancements there are still many many people you don’t know of him and never will.
And what about people who are born mentally impaired? They were born in a way to where they physically cannot grasp the concept of god. And what about psychopaths? It is literally a physical impossibility for them to feel for others. Why would God create someone and know full well they’re situation and still send them to hell? Now take the thought of hell away and what’s the point? Why would I need Jesus why would I need god
All I can contribute is from my own personal experience, and what I know others have said as well. Many millions of people who do convert to Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior are immediately healed and/ or delivered from illness, oppression, addiction, and even demonic possession. The person's life is made so much better in the here and now because of that, and then because your spirit is renewed and made alive again in Christ, your refinement and correction begins in this world in a much easier way.
We need Jesus because of what happened in the Garden of Eden. All were condemned in Adam, but all will be made alive again in Christ. All means everyone, including those who never hear of Him in this life, and those who could not comprehend Salvation. I know what you're saying because one of my own son's left the faith when he went through college to be a Special Education Teacher. He said those children will never be able to understand the gospel. I tried even back then to tell him about Universalism, but I really didn't know very much yet.
Sin is not a law breaking behavior that needs to be punished. It is a disease that needs to be cured. God came in the flesh to show us who is he is and what he is like, which is infinite love and infinite mercy, and in doing so he judges the darkness within us, and thus cures us. Jesus was not changing the fathers mind about us, he was changing our minds about the father.
I have heard another reason. First, God hated sacrifice nor did He murder His son in our place to make “atonement”. Men needed it, not Trinity. Jesus died to dissolve death, sin and Satan, ie hell. And most magnificent to experience human delusion of separation all humans experience as that inner emptiness. When Jesus cried why have you abandoned me, that is OUR cry. We've been deluded into believing somehow God had abandoned us due to us being sin. But NO. Read The Shack and you will find Trinity is already there waiting l, calling us to the deepest pain to find Them there- full of love for our most painful places in our soul. Jesus was saying as we/ I can't feel you, sense you, yet I know and trust you. THEN, He goes down into hades to what? Lead the captive la up and out AND PRESENTS US as worthy gifts before the throne. There is nothing Jesus is the original MeToo movement. Experienced all it means to be human. Where was the Father? IN Christ, not turning His face. Ever, never. It was never sinners in the hands of an angry God, rather GOD in the hands of angry sinner men, submitting and staying with them, in spite of them trying to kill life itself. He showed us They we’re still there always wanting to connect and commune with us.
@@Jordan-hz1wr That's very well said. I would just add that Jesus was also casting out the one He called "the ruler of this world" who had taken everyone captive after the fall in the Garden. He was introducing us to our true Heavenly Father who has always loved us. So in a way, yes, He was changing our minds about the Father, but also about "Who" that Father really is.
The Old Testament people, including the Prophets and even the Patriarchs, could not always tell who they were following and believing in because they were not born again or spirit-filled. This has been remedied by the Lord Jesus Christ who taught us that whenever there is killing, stealing or destroying, it is a work of the devil. When it is a work of giving abundant life, love and healing, it is a work of the Father.
Brad, there's something else I've come to understand better. Jesus came to defeat death, which happened with His resurrection. It's defeated because we are no longer dead spiritually if we're in Christ, and He will come again to resurrect our bodies to immortality. Without the Crucifixion and subsequent Resurrection, we would've had to stay spiritually and physically dead, so He did a very important and necessary thing on our behalf.
We were all under the power of sin and death because of Satan, and Jesus came to overcome those things in our place since we weren't able. Without Him doing that, there would be no reconciliation, whether universal or individual. So God wouldn't just be restoring us and saving us anyway. It took Jesus fulfilling the law on our behalf, then dying a sinless death with His resurrection to overcome our enslavement to the devil.
I don’t think the offer that Jesus has given us is not heaven or hell , it’s to be part of his kingdom or a subject of that kingdom. In the Old Testament those who follow God were offered a heavenly home a land a city with God a promise land but Jesus offering is to rein and rule with him on his throne he calls us sons he even prayed that we would be one with him as he is one with the father (that doesn’t mean we will be Gods or equal to God) we are called to share in his suffering and to die to our flesh as he did he said to pick up our cross and follow him daily. This offer was not given to anyone but those who follow Jesus while still in our flesh body. That is why Jesus said if you denied me before men I will deny you before the father. All the people from Adam to Jesus still had to accept Jesus but were not given the same opportunity we have.Look at Revaluation 22:24-26 and ask yourself who are the people who can’t enter into the new Jerusalem I think it’s all those who have rejected God they are not part of heaven they are part of the new earth those who go through the lake of fire. We also know the lake of fire can’t be forever because it’s the second death and Jesus said the last enemy to be concord is death so as long as one person is still in it has not been concord.
But I am told John Calvin said the "all" is only all of a pre selected few people.
Calvin was a lawyer thus the courtroom penal substitution of the attonement rather than the restoration of ALL creation. ALL means ALL not some. The Greek for the word elect correctly translated means excellent. Thus it are the humble and meek (contrite hearts) attaining fellowship with God are experiencing the abundant LIFE that Jesus spoke of in the here and now. We need to look past much of the Protestant Reformation Fundamentalist etc bias and look at the scriptures through ancient eyes of that time not from our modern understanding.
John Calvin taught a lot of heretical awful things.
If God saves everyone, why does it matter if I'm faithful to Jesus? Why do I even need to respond to Jesus at all? Can't God love me if I don't love Jesus? As wonderful as Jesus is, he is limited in time and space, and maybe I'm just not into him for whatever reason. If God saves everyone, then it would seem possible that He can save people who, for whatever reason, are indifferent to Jesus. I think the desire to remain faithful to Jesus is a residual fear that I'll to to Hell without a relationship with Him. But God might not have that requirement. Why would He? God loves everyone--even people who aren't into Jesus and never will be. True universalism doesn't require Jesus.
So wrong! Everyone is only saved thru Jesus; and don’t be fooled, hell still exists-but a punitive, eternal hell damages the character of God to the point where he’s either no longer omnipotent (Arminianism), or where he’s no longer omnibenevolent (Calvinism). This is why a restorative hell is the only logical gospel. But hell is only restorative because of Jesus-and everyone in hell is only saved when they do turn to Jesus.
Now, the question for all theologians is; is the love of Christ resistible?
@@JoeySehn Define "a restorative hell."
@@JoeySehn So universalism is essentially Calvinism--God created a good world; man disobeyed and ate the apple, and God's only just response was to condemn the entire human race to eternal conscious torment forever. Jesus offered His life as a substitute so now God saves a. a few (Calvinism) or b. everyone (universalism).
God is still pretty much an abusive parent in either scenario.
What if God simply doesn't condemn people in the first place? Rather than sentence everyone to hell for Adam's sin, what if His response to Adam and the rest of us is correction and healing? What if He sees us lost and naked and makes us a coat?
Why does God have the requirement that we have to turn to Jesus? Jesus is a helpful example, but I don't see how I'm required to respond to Jesus in any way for God to love me as His child. "I won't save you unless you love Jesus!" I don't think God has to extort a love of Jesus out of me, and I don't think Jesus wants that. I don't think Jesus says, "You have to love me because God says so! If you don't, I won't help you get into Heaven!" (crosses arms and pouts)
God loves us simply because He is our Father and He created us. He brings us all into Heaven simply because He wants us to be with Him. God's love and care for us is completely unchanged from the moment He created us--nothing we have done or could ever do damages God or His love for us. If we make a mistake and eat an apple we weren't supposed to, God corrects our mistake and draws us back.
Jesus shows us the love of God, and for that we owe him endless homage. But loving Jesus or even thinking about him at all is not a requirement for our salvation. IMHO.
@@stuartkenny3050 God condemns sin, unbelief, death etc. He is committed to saving us from these spiritual enemies. Jesus is the incarnation of Gods salvation, the way the truth and the life. Impossible to be saved other than by and through the faith of Christ...imho.
@@benc6537 So God puts conditions on universalism?
And yet Universalism also seems to be false. Annihilationism is the biblical option here.
Also with Lamentations 3:31-33. Eventual CU is the only way that makes sense of God's love (for all people/ sincere desire to save all) and sovereignty (His plans will not be thwarted)