The police and prosecutors routinely stack charges against defendants to facilitate the bargaining mechanism. Like used car salesman they anticipate defenses and tactically deploy their advantage to minimize any exculpatory conflicts which would subject the police to criminal charges. I think it would be interesting to see the D.O.J. create situations where the defendants were unquestionably innocent and see how many were arrested.
A LOT of people take plea deals because they are either scared or told that it’s in their best interest. I plead guilty in a case because I was absolutely terrified of going into jail, I was facing 3 years. And for the record you only have 15 mins on the morning of your trial to make the choice of plea deal or not. Neither side had any legit evidence so my choice was either fight this at a jury trial and risk 3yrs of my life gone (I would have potentially missed the first 3 years of my daughters life) OR take the plea and get 2 years probation. It took everything in me to physically pick the pen up off the table and sign my name but all I could think of was my wife and newborn baby and taking the risk of being away from them for 3 years. So I swallowed my pride and my anger to fight this bullshit case and I signed the fucking paper. I decided to take the only road that would absolutely ensure that I would be sleeping in my own bed that night and knowing that I’d be able to raise my child with my wife. I have to life with a felony and that’s going to cause some issues in my life but that was the choice that was given to me and I choose the sure shot. Not everyone who takes any kind of plea deal is guilty.
The problem with plea bargain is number one, innocent people are sometimes coerced into pleading guilty to something they didn't do, number two, if the defendant is guilty of the alleged crime then he or she will get away with a lesser punishment then what they might actually deserve. It's not always fair to any of the parties involved.
@Mr. West lndian t.v. nominally, there are no plea bargains in England and the sky has not fallen down. They are also reducing the number of criminal trials, I suspect that means there are no plea bargains under that name.
Let's not forget, you are sitting in jail the entire time they are trying to get this jury trial going. Prosecutors know this and will purposely delay to get you to accept the plea.
Actually not always, a lot of criminals. Especially those of sexual assault and domestic assault don’t step a foot in jail and just have a parole officer check in once in awhile at home. So that’s not true at all.
@@Letters1213 as someone who was falsely accused of rape that’s a lie . I was locked in jail and forced to take a plea and get out the next day because my trail was 2 years from now
The largest overlooked aspect of the plea bargain system is that zero evidence and zero police work or investigations are needed...The prosecutor has no reason at all to care about guilt or innocence or evidence..It will never be needed...So charges are being handed out like Halloween candy with little to zero evidence or inevstigation...once your charged, you have no choice but to make a deal to save your own ass..After all, to get you that far, they have already proven that they have no soul or moral compass of any kind,and are openly and willingly able to violate every law that is on the books designed to protect the innocence...You would be a fool to let these crooks stage a phony trial against you....So, in short, the deal system has stolen the justice system 100% and its just a fishing game for the police and D.A.s...In the deal game, innocence and guilty have no bearing or meaning...No investigations needed. The innocent are forced to fight crooks and hang on for their life and HAVE to prove their own innocence 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt.., or take the deal and save your ass.The dictionary calls this Extortion.......Then they will use this piece of fraud against you the next time you meet an officer of the "law".....Thats the new deal folks......Demand a trial.......being accused of crime is not illegal. When we fix this,and we will, lets vow to have very little mercy on those who have abused it....The damage done is beyond description...
@@yamiyo6050 probably the very worse charge you can catch. Murder is a lesser charge, and actually requires a dead guy . zero evidence is needed to charge you with rape. zero. great example and you have my thoughts and prayers.
@@yamiyo6050 dude. I’m black and I so happened to be accused of a crime in a racist town in Indiana. I got hit with a level 5 felony. I had no criminal record either. My own attorney and the prosecutor was twisting my arm to take a plea deal for almost 2 years. I held out and demanded a jury trial. Now the prosecutor wants to put me on a pre trial diversion program. He is probably hoping that I will catch another charge so that it can help his case against me. But oh well. 1 year of this diversion program and the charges will be dismissed.
@@luckyhaskins69 "The largest overlooked aspect of the plea bargain system is that zero evidence and zero police work or investigations are needed...The prosecutor has no reason at all to care about guilt or innocence or evidence.." Of course he cares. Figuring out what deal to offer you requires forming an opinion on how likely you would be to be found guilty by a jury. The state of the evidence does have relevance to that.
Murderers shouldn’t be allowed to have a plea deal. My sons murderer got a plea deal, I’m livid! We had cell tower placement, video surveillance from the neighbors, his DNA on the laser that fell off his weapon, a willing eye witness…we went from 3 counts of 1st degree murder to aggravated assault! That coward will be out in 9 years! It’s not fair! And because there was no trial the motive never came out, which is that little girlfriend of my son who was messing around with the shooter! She locked my son out and went out back called me instead of 911 and I found him. She should be in jail too! But NO! The shooter got a plea deal and I got a big F you! 🤬
I’m here because I’m against plea deals. The first time i heard of it i was so disappointed in the legal system. I used to think court was about finding the truth! Since plea bargains exist, they should be fully transparent. But really they shouldn’t even be a thing. Guess i have more ethics than my the justice system! Scary!
Im half and half. I think in theory the idea is good, but it tends to fail in how the idea was executed. But think of it this way. Without the plea bargain, then people would just be forced to go to trail anyways, and then they could still be wrongfully convicted and sentenced to decades in prison. The larger issue is the inaccuracy of our court system to determine guilt or innocence. The plea bargain itself is merely an additional option people have, rather than taking away a right. It has been executed poorly though.
What's the alternative? Currently, something like 90% of prosecutions end in plea bargains. What do we do instead with all those cases? Because I can't think of any solution that doesn't impose unconscionable costs on the law-abiding public.
The bill of rights guarantees a jury trial. But in the 70s (forgot the case so google it) the Supreme court decided plea deals were constitutional. The highest court took it upon themselves to change the constitution to suit the court system. As they say, they investigated themselves and found nothing wrong. And the citizens are too busy to notice how the system is fixed until they get arrested and get overcharged or hit with mandatory minimums and are facing serious time for a first time offense.
I think that's a weak interpretation. There are lots of other Constitutional rights that you can waive. Starting from the top: The First Amendment says that you have freedom of speech and freedom of religion, but you can still choose to not express your opinions and/or to not be religious. The Second Amendment says that you get to have whatever guns you want to, but you can still choose not to own any guns. The Third Amendment says that you can't be forced to quarter soldiers, but you can still invite soldiers into your home if you want. The Fourth Amendment says that the police can't force you to let them search your home without a warrant, but you can still choose to let them search even if they don't have a warrant. The Fifth Amendment says that you don't _have to_ incriminate yourself, but of course you still _can._ So, when we get to the Sixth, is it really such a stretch to imagine that you can waive your right to a jury trial?
@@OptimalOwl I think the point @teksight9714 was trying to make is that the Brady V. United States case was ironic because the process for deciding if it was constitutional was a direct violation of the Sixth Amendment itself.
The disparity in sentences between peas of guilty and guilt verdicts is largely to blame. But remember this: law enforcement is much more powerful now in terms of money and science than it used to be. Even when you are innocent of say a white collar crime in federal court, you have multiple FBI and IRS agents and prosecutors with only one purpose. Right now, I have a client facing 30 years for fraud in federal court, No priors. I'm convinced he's innocent. He's been offered 5 years and if he takes it his son gets probation. I know they would agree to far less time. He doesn't want to take any offer. He's a great guy and clearly idealistic.
So, does that mean you cant do anything for him? Especially if he is innocent? Im sure there is a way you just have to know the law and move around it , turning it against them. Thats what makes a great Lawyer. You have to care that much, about the Person, the Law what is right and wrong, what is Justice. In my opinion.
the war on drugs is exponentially more harmful to our society, as is running for-profit prisons and our insane rate of incarceration with a lack of focus on rehabilitation and assistance in allowing people to be reintegrated with society. all of these are so much more harmful to us as a society than mere plea bargains are.
The Plea Bargaining system has a valuable place in the Criminal Justice System, but there are people on both sides who abuse the process and Injustices occur.
If all cases went to a jury trial then the system would be overwhelmed, taxes would go up to pay for it, and we would all be called in for jury duty a lot more often.
No, that not true, trials would be fair for the innocent. The guilty would get their time if evidence was to be found. Cops would have to be held accountable for their actions too.
No. Then they should prioritize cases. A DUI in which ends in manslaughter is more important than someone who was caught running a red light. Both against the law, only one needs court A Rape case is more important than some Kids who got caught smoking weed or doing heroine. A drug dealer selling kilos of Coke, a small time drug dealer who sells to his friends A lot of Victimless Crime would be deprioritized
@@noirekuroraigami2270 Okay, so criminals could get away with perpetrating those lesser crimes with impunity. Our only defence against habitual criminals and just generally awful people would be to wait until they commit a really serious crime. We'll just have to learn to live with the rampant assaults, thefts, car crashes and assorted disturbances. That's already a fucking horrible abortion of an idea - but then you consider the fact that *about 90% of convictions are plea bargains. We'd be tolerating almost all crime.*
As a person who lives in Australia, I just do not get this plea bargaining caper in the USA... it seems that the crim can use this to switch a hard kick in the butt to a gentle slap on the wrist.
So even if the crime is murder, they can still plea bargain and receive way less time? I would imagine that for more extreme crimes that the plea bargain sentence would still be very long
If you've commited murder and there is strong evidence, the prosecutors wouldn't offer a plea deal. And even if they did, it would still be serious jail time.
This is such an odd channel. I found you guys via an add. Normally when I see informational content featured in TH-cam adds it's very politically skewed, think PragerU. When you look at the about page of this channel, it even admits to adhering to a libertarian / conservative ideology, which implies there must be some politically motive behind this effort. However, so far the content has been very non-political. I find this refreshing, and is the main reason I'm continuing to look into and watch your videos, but it also makes me curious. What are the actual aims of this project? If you were really a political channel like PragerU I would expect to be hearing a lot more rhetoric, but so far all I've seen is some informational descriptions of court cases without really even seeing an opinion given to their validity. Don't take this as criticism. It's a good thing. I get tired of seeing all these politically charged videos advertised to me. It's just very unusual to see a channel admit to a political bias in it's description, but then not actually present that bias in it's content.
If all cases went to a jury trial then the system would be overwhelmed, taxes would go up to pay for it, and we would all be called in for jury duty a lot more often.
The process has now become the punishment. The proper way to prevent the abuse of the legal system is either side gov. Or defendant should lose their case they should pick up the cost of the case . If the charging party ( county ,city,state ) should prosecute someone wrongly they should pay all costs , including the defendant’s.
![Sentencing Reform in America: An Overview and Conversation [POLICYbrief]](/img/n.gif)
The police and prosecutors routinely stack charges against defendants to facilitate the bargaining mechanism. Like used car salesman they anticipate defenses and tactically deploy their advantage to minimize any exculpatory conflicts which would subject the police to criminal charges. I think it would be interesting to see the D.O.J. create situations where the defendants were unquestionably innocent and see how many were arrested.
A LOT of people take plea deals because they are either scared or told that it’s in their best interest. I plead guilty in a case because I was absolutely terrified of going into jail, I was facing 3 years. And for the record you only have 15 mins on the morning of your trial to make the choice of plea deal or not. Neither side had any legit evidence so my choice was either fight this at a jury trial and risk 3yrs of my life gone (I would have potentially missed the first 3 years of my daughters life) OR take the plea and get 2 years probation. It took everything in me to physically pick the pen up off the table and sign my name but all I could think of was my wife and newborn baby and taking the risk of being away from them for 3 years. So I swallowed my pride and my anger to fight this bullshit case and I signed the fucking paper. I decided to take the only road that would absolutely ensure that I would be sleeping in my own bed that night and knowing that I’d be able to raise my child with my wife. I have to life with a felony and that’s going to cause some issues in my life but that was the choice that was given to me and I choose the sure shot. Not everyone who takes any kind of plea deal is guilty.
Matthew savant what kind of work do you do
omg yup I’m an audio engineer, why do you ask?
damn I'm sorry, man. That's a terrifying position to be in.
Damn
Right n the fact you know after you plea itll all be over helps it, so wrong
"Your constitutional rights are taken away"
Youre not in the united states anymore once you enter a court room
The problem with plea bargain is number one, innocent people are sometimes coerced into pleading guilty to something they didn't do, number two, if the defendant is guilty of the alleged crime then he or she will get away with a lesser punishment then what they might actually deserve. It's not always fair to any of the parties involved.
@Mr. West lndian t.v. nominally, there are no plea bargains in England and the sky has not fallen down. They are also reducing the number of criminal trials, I suspect that means there are no plea bargains under that name.
I personally wouldn't plea bargain if I was innocent. I think it's best for my character to just risk telling the truth in that case.
citing this as a scholarly reference for my discussion post this week :)
No, they aren't.
@@Rockonymousas God is my witness!!!
If everyone refused plea bargains and asked for trial...courts would grind to a halt.
The entire country would be on jury duty.
Plea bargains were not suppose to exist ever. Read about it they are unconstitutional. In theory it sounds nice but prosecutors hold a lot of power.
So what, equal justice for all. Maybe then this wouldn't be such a litigious society that condemns everything under the sun
Let's not forget, you are sitting in jail the entire time they are trying to get this jury trial going. Prosecutors know this and will purposely delay to get you to accept the plea.
Actually not always, a lot of criminals. Especially those of sexual assault and domestic assault don’t step a foot in jail and just have a parole officer check in once in awhile at home. So that’s not true at all.
@@Letters1213 as someone who was falsely accused of rape that’s a lie . I was locked in jail and forced to take a plea and get out the next day because my trail was 2 years from now
@@yamiyo6050 so now you are a convicted felon? You should have demanded a speedy trial. That was your right
@@yamiyo6050what did you plea guilty to? Was it worth it?
The largest overlooked aspect of the plea bargain system is that zero evidence and zero police work or investigations are needed...The prosecutor has no reason at all to care about guilt or innocence or evidence..It will never be needed...So charges are being handed out like Halloween candy with little to zero evidence or inevstigation...once your charged, you have no choice but to make a deal to save your own ass..After all, to get you that far, they have already proven that they have no soul or moral compass of any kind,and are openly and willingly able to violate every law that is on the books designed to protect the innocence...You would be a fool to let these crooks stage a phony trial against you....So, in short, the deal system has stolen the justice system 100% and its just a fishing game for the police and D.A.s...In the deal game, innocence and guilty have no bearing or meaning...No investigations needed. The innocent are forced to fight crooks and hang on for their life and HAVE to prove their own innocence 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt.., or take the deal and save your ass.The dictionary calls this Extortion.......Then they will use this piece of fraud against you the next time you meet an officer of the "law".....Thats the new deal folks......Demand a trial.......being accused of crime is not illegal. When we fix this,and we will, lets vow to have very little mercy on those who have abused it....The damage done is beyond description...
As a guy who was falsely accused of rape by being black in a racist area and forced to take a plea you are so correct
@@yamiyo6050 probably the very worse charge you can catch. Murder is a lesser charge, and actually requires a dead guy . zero evidence is needed to charge you with rape. zero. great example and you have my thoughts and prayers.
@@yamiyo6050 dude. I’m black and I so happened to be accused of a crime in a racist town in Indiana. I got hit with a level 5 felony. I had no criminal record either. My own attorney and the prosecutor was twisting my arm to take a plea deal for almost 2 years. I held out and demanded a jury trial. Now the prosecutor wants to put me on a pre trial diversion program. He is probably hoping that I will catch another charge so that it can help his case against me. But oh well. 1 year of this diversion program and the charges will be dismissed.
@@luckyhaskins69
"The largest overlooked aspect of the plea bargain system is that zero evidence and zero police work or investigations are needed...The prosecutor has no reason at all to care about guilt or innocence or evidence.."
Of course he cares. Figuring out what deal to offer you requires forming an opinion on how likely you would be to be found guilty by a jury. The state of the evidence does have relevance to that.
Murderers shouldn’t be allowed to have a plea deal. My sons murderer got a plea deal, I’m livid! We had cell tower placement, video surveillance from the neighbors, his DNA on the laser that fell off his weapon, a willing eye witness…we went from 3 counts of 1st degree murder to aggravated assault! That coward will be out in 9 years! It’s not fair! And because there was no trial the motive never came out, which is that little girlfriend of my son who was messing around with the shooter! She locked my son out and went out back called me instead of 911 and I found him. She should be in jail too! But NO! The shooter got a plea deal and I got a big F you! 🤬
Plea bargaining exists because no attorney on either side ever wants to go to court. Plus without it the system would grind to a halt.
I’m here because I’m against plea deals. The first time i heard of it i was so disappointed in the legal system. I used to think court was about finding the truth!
Since plea bargains exist, they should be fully transparent. But really they shouldn’t even be a thing. Guess i have more ethics than my the justice system! Scary!
It is terrible imagine how many innocent people get screwed because of this
Im half and half. I think in theory the idea is good, but it tends to fail in how the idea was executed.
But think of it this way. Without the plea bargain, then people would just be forced to go to trail anyways, and then they could still be wrongfully convicted and sentenced to decades in prison. The larger issue is the inaccuracy of our court system to determine guilt or innocence.
The plea bargain itself is merely an additional option people have, rather than taking away a right. It has been executed poorly though.
@@meagainstmyself5923 plea bargins are amazing for smaller less offensive crimes. Not first/second degree murder. And. Rape. It’s unacceptable.
What's the alternative?
Currently, something like 90% of prosecutions end in plea bargains. What do we do instead with all those cases? Because I can't think of any solution that doesn't impose unconscionable costs on the law-abiding public.
@@OptimalOwl I’m sorry idk I’m a nobody. I just think truth should have something to do with justice. Crazy me
What a great video and the additional sources below. Thank you so much! This is so interesting, informative and helpful!!!
The bill of rights guarantees a jury trial. But in the 70s (forgot the case so google it) the Supreme court decided plea deals were constitutional. The highest court took it upon themselves to change the constitution to suit the court system. As they say, they investigated themselves and found nothing wrong. And the citizens are too busy to notice how the system is fixed until they get arrested and get overcharged or hit with mandatory minimums and are facing serious time for a first time offense.
I think that's a weak interpretation. There are lots of other Constitutional rights that you can waive. Starting from the top:
The First Amendment says that you have freedom of speech and freedom of religion, but you can still choose to not express your opinions and/or to not be religious.
The Second Amendment says that you get to have whatever guns you want to, but you can still choose not to own any guns.
The Third Amendment says that you can't be forced to quarter soldiers, but you can still invite soldiers into your home if you want.
The Fourth Amendment says that the police can't force you to let them search your home without a warrant, but you can still choose to let them search even if they don't have a warrant.
The Fifth Amendment says that you don't _have to_ incriminate yourself, but of course you still _can._
So, when we get to the Sixth, is it really such a stretch to imagine that you can waive your right to a jury trial?
Brady V. United States
@@OptimalOwl I think the point @teksight9714 was trying to make is that the Brady V. United States case was ironic because the process for deciding if it was constitutional was a direct violation of the Sixth Amendment itself.
@@mahogany-s3u
Because the Supreme Court makes their decisions without consulting a jury?
The disparity in sentences between peas of guilty and guilt verdicts is largely to blame. But remember this: law enforcement is much more powerful now in terms of money and science than it used to be. Even when you are innocent of say a white collar crime in federal court, you have multiple FBI and IRS agents and prosecutors with only one purpose. Right now, I have a client facing 30 years for fraud in federal court, No priors. I'm convinced he's innocent. He's been offered 5 years and if he takes it his son gets probation. I know they would agree to far less time. He doesn't want to take any offer. He's a great guy and clearly idealistic.
Is that good for him to do
So, does that mean you cant do anything for him? Especially if he is innocent? Im sure there is a way you just have to know the law and move around it , turning it against them. Thats what makes a great Lawyer. You have to care that much, about the Person, the Law what is right and wrong, what is Justice. In my opinion.
Thanks for help for achieving compliting my Research on plea bargain
plea bargaining is absolutely wrong and harms society
the war on drugs is exponentially more harmful to our society, as is running for-profit prisons and our insane rate of incarceration with a lack of focus on rehabilitation and assistance in allowing people to be reintegrated with society. all of these are so much more harmful to us as a society than mere plea bargains are.
The Plea Bargaining system has a valuable place in the Criminal Justice System, but there are people on both sides who abuse the process and Injustices occur.
If all cases went to a jury trial then the system would be overwhelmed, taxes would go up to pay for it, and we would all be called in for jury duty a lot more often.
@@travisspannagel4879 both are thanks to bad policies
@@shrimpflea the courts would actually do their job and a loss less people would be in jail. Cops would be held accountable too.
If plea bargaining wasn’t possible the entire justice system would grind to a halt
Pretty much. I don't understand what the alternative is supposed to be.
No, that not true, trials would be fair for the innocent. The guilty would get their time if evidence was to be found. Cops would have to be held accountable for their actions too.
No. Then they should prioritize cases.
A DUI in which ends in manslaughter is more important than someone who was caught running a red light. Both against the law, only one needs court
A Rape case is more important than some Kids who got caught smoking weed or doing heroine.
A drug dealer selling kilos of Coke, a small time drug dealer who sells to his friends
A lot of Victimless Crime would be deprioritized
@@noirekuroraigami2270
Okay, so criminals could get away with perpetrating those lesser crimes with impunity. Our only defence against habitual criminals and just generally awful people would be to wait until they commit a really serious crime. We'll just have to learn to live with the rampant assaults, thefts, car crashes and assorted disturbances.
That's already a fucking horrible abortion of an idea - but then you consider the fact that *about 90% of convictions are plea bargains. We'd be tolerating almost all crime.*
As a person who lives in Australia, I just do not get this plea bargaining caper in the USA... it seems that the crim can use this to switch a hard kick in the butt to a gentle slap on the wrist.
Really depends on the judge too.
Literally all it is
They have it in Canada and the UK too.
So even if the crime is murder, they can still plea bargain and receive way less time? I would imagine that for more extreme crimes that the plea bargain sentence would still be very long
If you've commited murder and there is strong evidence, the prosecutors wouldn't offer a plea deal.
And even if they did, it would still be serious jail time.
Very interesting. What are your thoughts on diversion programs like mental health court and DUI aversion programs
What happens to the “higher” chargers?
What about first offense felony domestic violence but no victim no witnesses shaky police report
Plea Bargaining system never makes sense to me.
Makes perfect sense. Without it the courts would be overwhelmed with jury trials and all of us would be on jury duty almost constantly.
There's also "facts" of the matter, like "overwhelming evidence!" That would make multiple defendants plead guilty!
NEVER take a plea!
John Doe why
So what to do instead?dismissed or not guilty?
This is such an odd channel. I found you guys via an add. Normally when I see informational content featured in TH-cam adds it's very politically skewed, think PragerU. When you look at the about page of this channel, it even admits to adhering to a libertarian / conservative ideology, which implies there must be some politically motive behind this effort. However, so far the content has been very non-political. I find this refreshing, and is the main reason I'm continuing to look into and watch your videos, but it also makes me curious. What are the actual aims of this project? If you were really a political channel like PragerU I would expect to be hearing a lot more rhetoric, but so far all I've seen is some informational descriptions of court cases without really even seeing an opinion given to their validity. Don't take this as criticism. It's a good thing. I get tired of seeing all these politically charged videos advertised to me. It's just very unusual to see a channel admit to a political bias in it's description, but then not actually present that bias in it's content.
Bro do you not know what the Federalist Society is... Its literally a conservative group which like 3 Justices adhere to
Is a plea bargain for a first defense gun charge a bad idea or take it to trial?
Take to trail plea nola
Now this is outright extortion
Uh. Ok but what if i did nothing?
Honesty is the best policy.
This is distopic
If all cases went to a jury trial then the system would be overwhelmed, taxes would go up to pay for it, and we would all be called in for jury duty a lot more often.
The process has now become the punishment. The proper way to prevent the abuse of the legal system is either side gov. Or defendant should lose their case they should pick up the cost of the case . If the charging party ( county ,city,state ) should prosecute someone wrongly they should pay all costs , including the defendant’s.