Infrared Heat Gun / Thermometer NOT an Accurate Method
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
- Can an Infrared Heat Sensor Give Useful Information to a Harley Owner Regarding Engine Temps.
We Test and Show Results & Tips on How to Use for Accurate COMPARISONS, but not Actual Heat.
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Kevin, exactly consistency is so important when tracking temps using infrared measurements.
Yes! 👍
If you put that stick on top of the infrared gun as well as the bottom, then you can be sure you have a consistent angle every time
Thanks for the tip and for commenting! 😎👍
Thanks for this link about the Infrared temps.....very informative
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for the comment. 👍
You mention you're 2 ways of oil temps. I have an oil temp gauge installed in my '13 tri-glide in place of ambient air temp, which I believe to be very accurate. I think that should be mentioned as a way to measure oil temps, unless y'all know why those suck and can inform me on how I wasted money. Along with that, I have only done a basic stage 1 upgrade with full exhaust, air cleaner, stage flash, than a tune and dyno. I have added love jugs, and a ultra oil cooler including the permanent filter. I still hit over 300° up to engine cutoff temps, which really is not pleasant having your bike shut off because it's to damn hot. Air cooled trikes suck in the heat. As for engine temps, I love the power vision and a certain other for that.
Two Temps we measure. Engine Temp (which is really the cylinder heat sensor) which on the Twin Cams is at the rear of the front cylinder and on the M8's is at the front of the rear cylinder. Then the oil temp at the tank. I am not sure if your oil temp is taking the temp at the tank or in the bottom of the crankcase. We have found that the oil temp should be at a max of 230 F at the tank. If yours is in the crank, it will be hotter, but we do not have a correlation.
When you say you still hit over 300 F, is that oil or ET (cylinder head temp)? On your '13 Twin Cam you do not want the temps going over 230 on the ET or the Oil at the tank.
Here is a link to a report on the things you can do to get your temps down- www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-the-twin-cam-engine-part-i-dk-cl-tc-dn-1.htm
And here is a video series on Why and How to cool your ride down- th-cam.com/play/PLb3bvZgbH92_3s-2vv63QggFJ3nteFd_C.html
Feel free to call or email with any questions.
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Use my powervision all the time, invaluable tool, mostly set on the temp settings, great piece of mind.
Had one on my 18 Fatboy just waiting for warranty to end on my 21 Tri Glide to add to it.
Best $ you can spend for piece of mind. 👍
@@papap.8006 100% yeah I didn't worry about my warranty, BUT, each to there own, I've still got a year left, well....I did, lol, is what it is. 👍
@@aaroncox3340 When I bought the Fatboy I added the power vision before I took delivery of it so I basically rode out of the dealership without a warranty.
Talk about riding the ragged edge! Lol
@@papap.8006 yeah I know it's a risk for sure, but I think the risk is worth it, especially when I've vented the heads to atmosphere and vented the crank behind the rear cylinder, man what a difference. Glad I did it.
@@aaroncox3340 if doing that voids the warranty then I guess I should move forward with the PV because I already did that months ago. Lol
Harley has a oil temp guage kit. The sensor is installed in the oil pan so I think it's a very accurate reading of oil temp. 300 degrees on a very hot day stopped in heavy traffic. I ride a 2009 electraglide with luv jugs and ultra cooler as well. Heat is just the nature of the beast.harley....
Yes, they do, and the heat in the oil pan is much higher than in the oil tank. That oil down there has just been squirted on the bottom of the pistons to help cool them down after the combustion stroke. 300 is not out of line for that location at all.
Here's a video we made about why it gets so hot in that area of the engine- th-cam.com/video/WpUorAUIj9Q/w-d-xo.html
@@DKCustomProducts Dino oil doesn’t work well at that temperature
@@psy999 Very true.
Great tutorial 👍
Thank you 👍
Infrared temps in metallic surface depends on the emissivity of the surface. The trick a thermographer uses is to put plain old masking tape on the metal and read that temperature. Masking tape has an emissivity of close to perfect as you can get. Just remember, if its shiney or reflective your not getting a good reading
Thanks for your comment. Are you saying that if you put masking tape on a surface and shoot that surface that distance and angle do not affect the reading?
While I am curious, it is sort of irrelevant for our purposes. Putting masking tape on a cylinder head at 200+ degrees F is going to make a sticky mess, so not really a viable option in looking at temps on a Harley.
I just now went out and tested the masking tape idea. Depending on the distance and angle the masking tape was giving a variance of 89 to 68 degrees for the exact same point on the tape.
So to get an accurate apples to apples reading on masking tape, it is the same as what was shown in the video....the distance and angle must be the same.
@@DKCustomProducts Im not commenting on the angle used for the reading, but since you mentioned it.. heat moves by 3 methods. The one we are talking about is radiation. Basically the same as light. If the surface is radiating in a cone (akin to a reflector in a flashlight) sure, straight on would matter. My gut kick reaction to a flat piece of tape would be that it should not matter if the surface area is big enough. And yes, 100% correct about the sticky mess. For the most part, heads are typically flat black and not smooth, so the reading should be reasonably accurate. But, if you wanted to take a reading from the shiney chrome muffler, id bet that the tape would be more close to a conductive measurement. And, for the record, i love my PowerVision and the temp display is on always... (Dual cool with M8 water pump upgrade, crap solder or spot weld on factory pump!)
@@AudioFanMan Thanks for the info! 👍
Infrared thermometers have their place. But if you were to use a Fluke Thermometer with a temperature probe, you would likely get more accurate readings .
@@njb2cool my flir thermal imaging camera can resolve to a tenth of a degree easily. Sure contact type of probe is much more accurate. Point of my reply was to remove as much error as possible...
We sell Infrared Heat Guns at the auto parts store I work at . I've had to demonstrate the same facts, distance and angle, and the difference between flat black and chrome. The oil temp gauge is probably the most "reliable" but people don't always factor in ambient temps and how much of a load you put on the bike. A vid showing ways to keep cool, ie: parking in the shade, more time at stops when you fuel, etc. would be interesting. Your trip to Mexico may have shown you some new things?
Yes, good deal that you are educating your Customers regarding the infrared heat guns.
We do have an entire series on Why & How to cool down a Twin Cam & M8 (see link below), but here is one we did on how to stay cool, via riding gear & more. th-cam.com/video/VlT49cYzEBM/w-d-xo.html
No doubt the oil temp is a good indicator...oil will, after an hour or so, end up being the same temp as the metal it is flowing thru. And you are right, load, ambient temps and more are big variables in how hot the engine gets. Many folks think that when you're riding at 70 or 80 down the interstate that all the wind blowing past the engine will make it run really cool. Fact is that because of the load at that speed that is when the engine runs hottest. Here is one of the videos on that subject- th-cam.com/video/6AhPqVlvE-w/w-d-xo.html
Here's the link to the playlist on Why & How - th-cam.com/play/PLb3bvZgbH92_3s-2vv63QggFJ3nteFd_C.html
@@DKCustomProducts thanks for the links! Although I ride a carbureted '06 Sportster Custom, I've learned to take steps to keep it cool. I've suggested a tank lift, to my son, for his '13 Streetglide, to help him run cooler. Here in ND we have a lot of 95F+ days during the summer, so engine heat can be a huge factor.
I have a thundermax tuner
The Thundermax uses the OEM heat sensor to adjust the timing, the same as the OEM ECM.
Great video, thanks! One question, does the ECM use the cylinder temp or the engine temp (referring to a PV). In a lot of your heat related articles you use these terms interchangeably and say that the engine temp senor is connected to the rear cylinder. My cylinder temp pretty much consistently reads 35+ degrees above my engine temp. On a side note, the ONLY time my 17 m8 freewheeler engine temp is below 300 at 60+ mph is if there is a fairly strong cross wind and the air temp is 70 or less. I have mighty mites, aux oil cooler, raised tank, your wind deflectors, it's been dyno'd, I have the new style oil pump, and I weigh 165. An engine temp of 280 is impossible for me to achieve at cruising speeds and I'm just happy to keep it under 325 (360 cylinder). Oil temp is almost always under 220 (digital meat thermometer). Thanks again and keep up the good work!
Thank you, glad you are finding the videos useful.👍
What is displayed on the Power Vision as ET is from the cylinder head heat sensor. On your '17 Freewheeler that sensor is located at the front of the rear cylinder head.
You do not want it hitting 270 F. It should stay under that for max power and engine longevity (it will be more comfortable also).
Here is a link to a report on the things you can do to get your temps down- www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-the-twin-cam-engine-part-i-dk-cl-tc-dn-1.htm
And here is a video series on Why and How to cool your ride down- th-cam.com/play/PLb3bvZgbH92_3s-2vv63QggFJ3nteFd_C.html
Here is a video of what happens when it hits 270 F - th-cam.com/video/MF0hO-w2hz8/w-d-xo.html
Feel free to call or email with any questions.
Support@DKCustomProducts.com
662-252-8828
You have to remember that those sensors that Harley uses are not very accurate either every one is made different meaning the accurate of the sensor varies thats why the same two bikes will have different temps.
Valid points! 😎👍
Thanks for commenting!
Love you guys! Greatly appreciated 🙏
Thank you!
Does an oil cooler that is installed underneath a bike really work as well as a cooler that is vertically installed?
It does not. We did tests on this many years ago....hoping that the larger surface found on oil coolers under the bike would make up for them not being in the wind as much.
We were disappointed.
Even the same size oil cooler, mounted on the downtube will cool better than mounted down lower, behind the rear tire.
The more out in the air the oil cooler is, the better the cooling.
Does the Power Vision have the capacity to monitor oil temperature ? Cheers and thank you for all your videos.
It does not. Thanks for checking.
Could having this 131 reaching temps via readout on POWER VISION saying up to 340 plus engine temp be a sumping issuing going on? I have a stock harley oil cooler with fan
It absolutely could be. It could also be a lack of good cooling strategies.
I have ridden hundreds of miles with a 131 in a heavy Tri-Glide, and his temps were very similar to mine, bouncing between 210 and 240.
340 as displayed on a Power Vision ET is too hot, by a lot.
@@DKCustomProducts think it could be sumping? I got the 131 in NOV 2021. I would think they would have the fix to that managed
@@Heavy69Metal It *could* be sumping. You have the new oil pump, so it is doubtful that it is. More likely just poor cooling that is standard on TC's and M8's. The only 131 I've ridden with had no heat issues, BUT, it had all our cooling strategies in place.
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THANKYOU I love your work & passion of Harley Davidson's.
Keep the Dream ALIVE ❗
Safe travels 🙏❣️
Thank you for the good words. Appreciate it.
Even with things changing at the mothership, we're going to keep doing what we do...and see how these new bikes go, and may add them into the mix.
Back at you on the Safe Travels!!!
Thumbnail says it all… do not take temp from near the intake or exhaust.
👍
@@DKCustomProducts , seriously, thanks for the advice. Always looking forward to watching your videos.
@@h3r63rt Thanks man!
Glen Hooper is dead on right. The surface is key.
You are going to put masking tape on your cylinder head?
I just now went out and tested the masking tape idea. Depending on the distance and angle the masking tape was giving a variance of 89 to 68 degrees for the exact same point on the tape.
So to get an accurate apples to apples reading on masking tape, it is the same as what was shown in the video....the distance and angle must be the same.
What analog dipstick are you using on your M8? I've looked online & can only find the digital thermometer dipsticks which get very poor reviews.
JESCustom is the one that I am using and I've been happy with it. I have used many of the Digital ones, and they are nice, but everyone of them that I've used has eventually failed.
@@DKCustomProducts Yup my Harley dipstick only lasted 1.5 years
Yeah, I've had them fail at less than a year and be replaced under warranty, and several fail around the 2 year mark. I have one that has lasted 7 years. On that one I've had to replace the battery several times.
Been looking for a oil temp gauge for my 2021 tri glide. Do you sell a oil temp gauge? Need one until I add the power vision.
Been looking everywhere for one.
Try Dakota Digital they make gauge packages for the tri glide
JESCustoms makes oil temp gauges for your 2021 TG. As Nathan said, so does Dakota Digital (expensive), and you will also have to add a sensor with the DD.
Power Vision does not display oil temp, just engine temp.
A dipstick oil temp gauge, like from JES is the most economical.
@@DKCustomProducts 👍
Great video. That causes me to share an issue that i am having. I have both the JESCustoms dipstick and Dakota Digital oil temp gauges. The dipstick gauge reports 225 to 230 degrees on a typical ride, while the DD gauge reports 150 to 160 degrees. I suspect that because the DD sending unit is installed in the oil drain plug location which is on the front side of the oil pan, air flow is keeping the temps down. I also wonder about windage. Is there even oil present at the front of the oil pan or am I recording only ambient or case temps? When I come to a stop the temps on the DD gauge do start to rise but I have not seen it agree with the dipstick gauge. Thinking that the DD sending unit was defective, DD replaced it with a new one but it hasn't made a difference. I really like the Dakota Digital instrument display. I just wish that the oil temperature reading was more in agreement with the other gauge. Next, I'm going to park on a downhill slope forcing oil to the front of the pan to check oil temps. Hopefully there will be some agreement.
You do not say, but I am guessing you have a Twin Cam or M8.
You also did not mention if you have an oil cooler or not.
Temps in the sump (bottom of engine) should be higher than the temps in the oil tank where your dipstick gauge is.
It is not out of the realm of possibility that the tank temp would be 225-230 F and the temp in the sump be 150-160 C.
This is because the oil in the sump is there right after being squirted on to the bottom of the pistons.
If the temp readings you are getting are both Fahrenheit, there is definitely something amiss.
To make sure that your temp dipstick is reading correctly, you can use a cooking thermometer to verify the dipstick gauge. If they are within 5-10 degrees of each other, then you know that is accurate, and the DD is where the variance is.
The sump (pan at bottom of engine) should have around 4 ounces of oil in it.
Hope this helps you track down what is going on.
Oh, here is a video where we talk about the piston oilers a bit- th-cam.com/video/WpUorAUIj9Q/w-d-xo.html