Demand management can be a good thing with a limited supply, such as a 125A house supply and the need to run Well pump, water heater, clothes dryer, and car charger. An easier solution is to have the car charger parallel to the dryer with the monitor/switch there. Dryer is temporary and you can go back to charging when the clothes are dry.. Technology Connection presented one of these outlet switches.
This kind of load manager can be troublesome with ev. In Europe they sell ev charger with current transformer, so they dinamically negotiate ev load according to actual house load. Maybe there is something similar in US
This doesn't sound code compliant. If you add an additional 50A to a service, you need to make sure that the service feeders are rated for those additional 50A. Adding a 50a charger to 100A or 150A service, will eventually cause the feeder wires to overheat and melt. That's why now rthe city is requiring load calculations on the panel presented along with the permit.
That still doesn’t address anything he talked about. That load is still part of your total service demand, and won’t be allowed if the math doesn’t work.
There are several EVSE that have active load management. Wall box comes to mind. But not all of them are as expensive as this Simmons EVSE. I know the wall box is half the price of the versicharge and doesn't need a second service to control the active load management.
Oh, so like same as most decent EV chargers that already comes with that built-in? I install Defa Power chargers and for it you buy a Defa balancer and hook it up to the WiFi and you put current clamps in your incoming mains. Then you tell the charger what circuit breaker it's on and what your main breakers are and it does the rest. And if you get a Beny charger the load balancer comes with the package and the load balancer even comes with current clamps for your PV system so you can choose to only charge when the PV is producing
This is great and also great for sizing standby generators. We already use load management devices in order to be able to install a slightly smaller generator than what the full load calculation would require. These are just a simple relay though and all the current measuring and control wiring is in the ATS(automatic transfer switch) for the generator. This Siemans unit is probably all self contained which is pretty cool. This would probably rarely kick in anyway because most people will charge their car overnight, when they’re not using it and electric rates are lower. How much does it cost?
There is a problem though. Some EV’s like the Leaf will not restart charging if the power is interrupted. A way better solution is to signal the EVSE to decrease current. Possible in 2 amp increments. I’d have to check them all but I think power loss sets a charge fault in the EV.
@jsb7546 i have a similar switch, it plugs into the dryer receptical and the dryer and the ev charger plus into it and it automatically shuts off the ev if the dryer is on. I have a tesla and it will restart charging
I had a difficulty with a SSR install to switch from Shore Power to Generator for a Yacht. Elegant. A single on off on switch was the effort. Called Potter Bromfield(Siemens) and asked for an engineer. A polite Gent answered and I explained my intent with their product. He declared he invented the device and he had never considered the application but was impressed. Then he said the system would not carry a neutral. Ahh.
Utility planning???? Reallyyyyyyyy, all you got to do is get a bigger panel and a permit! Don't know why you are making it like is a huge thing to do when is not!
Ok so it's $1000 just sticker price. But if it lasts longer than 10 years that's 100 a year. I think as long as the longevity is there then it's worth it. Even if the install is pricey it's still worth the effort if full ev is something you want to do.
Why? it's already built into the charging standard. There is not need for that box, the EVSE can change the current in 1A steps from 6A to 64A, or instruct the charging to stop. Just get a EVSE that support changing the charge rate.
It’s like changing the gas pedal from cable driven to computer controlled, before you stepped on the gas pedal and the cable opens the throttle, now you step on the gas pedal and the wires request the computer to to open the throttle and the computer decides if you get to go or not. now you are requesting charging and if the load manager decides you can then you will have charging. Maybe if you have that much demand you need a bigger panel and more service coming into your house.
Nice- some ev charger companies do this with power control software rather than hardware. Check out Enphase chargers with consumption monitoring and main breaker trip avoidance. Great videos btw
Not that hard to upgrade the service. You dont need utility planning. If you have a 200amp service and your panel is full just put some minis in there.
If you can afford an electric car you can afford a service upgrade, they're not that expensive. And it's a pretty basic job for an electrician. Easy weekend money. Not this band aid bullshit that will always be playing a balancing game with when you can actually charge your car.
Ah yes…admitting what was warned of. At least this will cut down on the fires and exploding neighbourhood transformers. The lucky people are those still given royal dispensation to still use gas for home heat and hot water. Those two off the table make this load issue fairly moot.
Holy crap! That would be great....but the device is nearly $1000! The homeowner is going to get some serious sticker shock when you tell them, "The total install cost is $2500"! Many electricians are going to get burned trying to sell that!
In many places nat gas isn't available other than propane delivery which can be more expensive than electric for basically everything but water heating, heat pumps are more efficient in most places that aren't particularly northern.
I’ve never once in 25 years, had to upgrade a service to accommodate something like that. When the panel is full, a simple pony panel install, or just moving a few circuits around in the panel can make room for the circuit required. It’s so rare for a service to at full capacity. Most homes use only a small fraction of their total capacity at any given time. If needed, it does look like a nice unit tho, I will say that.
You really only see a situation like this in houses that were built with a relatively low capacity panel and had a bunch of additions all fed off that panel. In a situation like that though, I'm still going to prefer a full service upgrade.
Can't put that EV charger on a 100Amp service. Those things are 60A. Good luck cooking dinner on your electric range, doing laundry with an electric dryer, and charging your car. You'll be tripping the main all day.
I have installed numerous car chargers that were not 60 amps, they have them all the way from 20 amps up to 60, and many of them can be adjusted to whatever you want. So that is an option as well.
So how many kilowatts can a 100 amp service continously provide? 12? How much power is your EV going to pull? How many of your neighbors with EV's need to roll up from work, plug in and trip off everyone's power? And what heck is your power bill gonna be? EV's are a scam.
There's a startup doing exactly this, but instead of being located at the panel it's done at the meter. Simply add it in, wire up your charger and you're all set
this is the stupid/expensive/wrong way to do it. the right way is a load management charger, which watches the total consumption via CTs on the supply, no silly disconnecting loads, just reduces the charge rate when needed. do not need to include the charger in the load calc.
So the money you were supposed to save not paying for fossil fuel is spent on vehicle home charging. But wait, there’s more. After you realize buying an EV was a mistake and your next car is a sensible hybrid, you now have your money tied up (aka non-liquid asset) in a load manager you have no use for. No thanks.
This feature has been built in to European chargers for a long time all it is is a current transformer not groundbreaking at all built into the charger simply put the CT around the incoming supply wire it up job done none of this complicated b*******
There’s already load managers built into EV chargers at least the Tesla ones and even if those were to fail, and you knew that you were over capacity, you could always go into the app and lower the amount of charging that you’re receiving if you have multiple appliances on at the same timeand you feel like you’re going to be over a capacity
I dont think most ppl who buy an EV are fully aware just how much it requires to charge these vehicles. Those salesman will say anything to make a sale.
I would like to see all EV owners forced to do it right and pay the price for a full service upgrade. If not, it will go like in my area now...Every resident is being forced to pay for incoming line and transformer upgrades because of a few EVs that require it. Let EV owners pay the price of their own stupidity.
@@aplante All of us are paying now for the impact we are having and that of our great, great grandfathers who started this whole industrial mess.. . My issue is that of being forced to upgrade MY electric service so those with EVs can charge. If new ICE cars required gas pump upgrades I wouldn't expect EV owners to pay for the pump upgrades.
So, pay 40k for an 8k pv system.. buy a manager, don't know the but installed probably 2.5k to 5k to stop output of pv system when your load is too high? 2500 gets you a new solar ready panel is one option. De-rate the main is another option or head of main tap. Just another solar scam.
It’s like changing the gas pedal from cable driven to computer controlled, before you stepped on the gas pedal and the cable opens the throttle, now you step on the gas pedal and the wires request the computer to to open the throttle and the computer decides if you get to go or not. now you are requesting charging and if the load manager decides you can then you will have charging. Maybe if you have that much demand you need a bigger panel and more service coming into your house.
A siemen load manager? Hmmmm interesting 😂
thinkin the exact same thing as were most guys
This is the best comment
I’m almost pissed this dude didn’t acknowledge how ridiculous what he just said sounds 😂
Sounds like my ex is there 😂😂😂
Exactly how big is a load you have to have a load manager dude must be working with a fat conductor
Wow, residential electric service actually stepping out of the early 20th century finally
I’m saying
Demand management can be a good thing with a limited supply, such as a 125A house supply and the need to run Well pump, water heater, clothes dryer, and car charger. An easier solution is to have the car charger parallel to the dryer with the monitor/switch there. Dryer is temporary and you can go back to charging when the clothes are dry.. Technology Connection presented one of these outlet switches.
This kind of load manager can be troublesome with ev. In Europe they sell ev charger with current transformer, so they dinamically negotiate ev load according to actual house load. Maybe there is something similar in US
That is completely awesome to know! That’s a game changer!
Only $900.00. What a deal!
My home is fully electric and I added the 240 in my garage with no problems. Just saying. The load management is cool though
That's very useful. I like the new charger connection that go installed outside on the meter. No need to touch the panel or even go inside the house 😅
This doesn't sound code compliant.
If you add an additional 50A to a service, you need to make sure that the service feeders are rated for those additional 50A.
Adding a 50a charger to 100A or 150A service, will eventually cause the feeder wires to overheat and melt.
That's why now rthe city is requiring load calculations on the panel presented along with the permit.
That still doesn’t address anything he talked about. That load is still part of your total service demand, and won’t be allowed if the math doesn’t work.
There are several EVSE that have active load management. Wall box comes to mind. But not all of them are as expensive as this Simmons EVSE. I know the wall box is half the price of the versicharge and doesn't need a second service to control the active load management.
Great option. Just have to determine if charging can be interrupted.
That's so cool!!!! We could use that!
The equivalent of turning on the hot water when someone showers
Oh, so like same as most decent EV chargers that already comes with that built-in? I install Defa Power chargers and for it you buy a Defa balancer and hook it up to the WiFi and you put current clamps in your incoming mains. Then you tell the charger what circuit breaker it's on and what your main breakers are and it does the rest. And if you get a Beny charger the load balancer comes with the package and the load balancer even comes with current clamps for your PV system so you can choose to only charge when the PV is producing
This is great and also great for sizing standby generators. We already use load management devices in order to be able to install a slightly smaller generator than what the full load calculation would require. These are just a simple relay though and all the current measuring and control wiring is in the ATS(automatic transfer switch) for the generator. This Siemans unit is probably all self contained which is pretty cool. This would probably rarely kick in anyway because most people will charge their car overnight, when they’re not using it and electric rates are lower. How much does it cost?
If it's one of those floating current limiters, it'll be REALLY interesting to see how well it performs.
We use load management systems with generators all the time. Never seen a Siemens tho
Nice!
There is a problem though. Some EV’s like the Leaf will not restart charging if the power is interrupted.
A way better solution is to signal the EVSE to decrease current. Possible in 2 amp increments. I’d have to check them all but I think power loss sets a charge fault in the EV.
Damn. I'm a industrial not resi guy but as a guy that's looking to get a electric vehicle that sucks to hear.
Sounds like a leaf problem
All cars are like ygis@@Post_Oak_
@jsb7546 i have a similar switch, it plugs into the dryer receptical and the dryer and the ev charger plus into it and it automatically shuts off the ev if the dryer is on.
I have a tesla and it will restart charging
@@Capthrax1- That’s good to know. My Leaf will not.
This is an immediate solution for a job I have,
Add another $1k for this plus your labor to install it.
Haven't had to put any ev chargers up yet for commercial but I'm sure I will eventually!
Would this be applicable for any large consumption device or appliances? 🤔
Wow that's actually pretty awesome
Yeah, these are brand new. Personally I like the DCC controllers better.more simplified, and the boxes have plenty of room to work. 😉
I had a difficulty with a SSR install to switch from Shore Power to Generator for a Yacht. Elegant. A single on off on switch was the effort. Called Potter Bromfield(Siemens) and asked for an engineer. A polite Gent answered and I explained my intent with their product. He declared he invented the device and he had never considered the application but was impressed. Then he said the system would not carry a neutral. Ahh.
The very best part is that it switched the load so fast (zero crossing) that the Refers and video displays and computers were unaffected.
I’ll never have that issue but interesting none the less
Utility planning???? Reallyyyyyyyy, all you got to do is get a bigger panel and a permit! Don't know why you are making it like is a huge thing to do when is not!
Ok so it's $1000 just sticker price. But if it lasts longer than 10 years that's 100 a year. I think as long as the longevity is there then it's worth it. Even if the install is pricey it's still worth the effort if full ev is something you want to do.
Lots of homes and apartments are running 100 amp services here in south Florida. Don’t worry guys we’re still behind in times too 😂
Why?
it's already built into the charging standard. There is not need for that box, the EVSE can change the current in 1A steps from 6A to 64A, or instruct the charging to stop.
Just get a EVSE that support changing the charge rate.
Depends where your panel is. I like the look of the ConnectDER, which goes right on the meter socket.
Still going to have the same issue in terms of overloading the service regardless of how the EV charger is tied in based on the scenario on the video.
It’s like changing the gas pedal from cable driven to computer controlled, before you stepped on the gas pedal and the cable opens the throttle, now you step on the gas pedal and the wires request the computer to to open the throttle and the computer decides if you get to go or not.
now you are requesting charging and if the load manager decides you can then you will have charging.
Maybe if you have that much demand you need a bigger panel and more service coming into your house.
That's cool!
Nice- some ev charger companies do this with power control software rather than hardware. Check out Enphase chargers with consumption monitoring and main breaker trip avoidance. Great videos btw
“Babe no laundry today, need to get a full charge. Kids! Here’s $5 go to the diner and grab yourselves a Malt”
Nice!
How does the load manager know which device is needed and which isn't?
Sounds like It prioritizes everything but the EV. Which is fine cuz the other stuff won’t be running too long
Especially not while everyone’s asleep
that's beautiful😊
Load manager, aka a Transformer.
Not that hard to upgrade the service. You dont need utility planning. If you have a 200amp service and your panel is full just put some minis in there.
That’s incredible!! Thank you for making your videos man impacted a lot of life’s with your work.
These devices are all over in scandinavia
Wow nice
Psd in my area has this
So i cant charge them as much? :(
Real question is knowing siemens is it cheaper than a new service
I have a little gadget i plug in my powermeter, then connect the charger to wifi and Baaaaam i have a load manager!
I didn't realize there was yet another reason to NOT by an EV. Thanks!
when i see theses shorts i almost want to unretire
cool. now the utilities lines can run even hotter than designed installation, and cause forrest fires that can be blamed on global warming.
This was not what I thought this was..😂
Good thing I updated my service. I can now charge an ev and dry my clothes
If you can afford an electric car you can afford a service upgrade, they're not that expensive. And it's a pretty basic job for an electrician. Easy weekend money.
Not this band aid bullshit that will always be playing a balancing game with when you can actually charge your car.
can't people just plan when they do their laundry?
Ah yes…admitting what was warned of. At least this will cut down on the fires and exploding neighbourhood transformers. The lucky people are those still given royal dispensation to still use gas for home heat and hot water. Those two off the table make this load issue fairly moot.
So instead of charging for two hours it now takes 8 if you’re lucky. I’ll just pull up to the pump
And now you can walk out to your car in the morning after doing your laundry and be at 12% charge 😂
👍
Holy crap! That would be great....but the device is nearly $1000! The homeowner is going to get some serious sticker shock when you tell them, "The total install cost is $2500"! Many electricians are going to get burned trying to sell that!
It is also stupid to have an all electric home unless you have solar panels.
Nat gas for heat and stove is way cheaper.
In many places nat gas isn't available other than propane delivery which can be more expensive than electric for basically everything but water heating, heat pumps are more efficient in most places that aren't particularly northern.
Kinda like a main breaker lol
Dencor system
So this is analogy for marriage yes?
GAS STATIONS STILL WORK
I’ve never once in 25 years, had to upgrade a service to accommodate something like that. When the panel is full, a simple pony panel install, or just moving a few circuits around in the panel can make room for the circuit required. It’s so rare for a service to at full capacity. Most homes use only a small fraction of their total capacity at any given time. If needed, it does look like a nice unit tho, I will say that.
You really only see a situation like this in houses that were built with a relatively low capacity panel and had a bunch of additions all fed off that panel.
In a situation like that though, I'm still going to prefer a full service upgrade.
Can't put that EV charger on a 100Amp service. Those things are 60A. Good luck cooking dinner on your electric range, doing laundry with an electric dryer, and charging your car. You'll be tripping the main all day.
I have installed numerous car chargers that were not 60 amps, they have them all the way from 20 amps up to 60, and many of them can be adjusted to whatever you want. So that is an option as well.
of course it costs MORE than the damn charger itself lol save yourself some money and just set your EV to charge at night while you sleep.
i will stay with ICE
I swear so many problems would be fixed if you just used 240v lol
Take my money! how much? 😂
So how many kilowatts can a 100 amp service continously provide?
12?
How much power is your EV going to pull?
How many of your neighbors with EV's need to roll up from work, plug in and trip off everyone's power?
And what heck is your power bill gonna be?
EV's are a scam.
The other thing is to check your local codes too.
Most code require a 200 amp service before you can legally install an EV charger
Who sent you what now
There's a startup doing exactly this, but instead of being located at the panel it's done at the meter. Simply add it in, wire up your charger and you're all set
I'll never buy an EV. what a joke... the coat, the waste, the toxic ingredients
this is the stupid/expensive/wrong way to do it. the right way is a load management charger, which watches the total consumption via CTs on the supply, no silly disconnecting loads, just reduces the charge rate when needed. do not need to include the charger in the load calc.
So the money you were supposed to save not paying for fossil fuel is spent on vehicle home charging. But wait, there’s more. After you realize buying an EV was a mistake and your next car is a sensible hybrid, you now have your money tied up (aka non-liquid asset) in a load manager you have no use for. No thanks.
Buy a generator!!! lol 😂
This feature has been built in to European chargers for a long time all it is is a current transformer not groundbreaking at all built into the charger simply put the CT around the incoming supply wire it up job done none of this complicated b*******
There’s already load managers built into EV chargers at least the Tesla ones and even if those were to fail, and you knew that you were over capacity, you could always go into the app and lower the amount of charging that you’re receiving if you have multiple appliances on at the same timeand you feel like you’re going to be over a capacity
Uhhhhh yeah bro I'm not trusting a homeowner to know how to manage how many amps they are running in their house lmao
Yet another reason not to go EV!
Show us your tattoos. We don't get to see what they depict as you talk with your hands.
Load.
I dont think most ppl who buy an EV are fully aware just how much it requires to charge these vehicles. Those salesman will say anything to make a sale.
Best solution is to not buy an ev
Every Electrician‘s goal should be to get the hell out of residential as fast as possible once you learn it…..
Nah, I prefer it honestly.
Can you explain why?
I would like to see all EV owners forced to do it right and pay the price for a full service upgrade. If not, it will go like in my area now...Every resident is being forced to pay for incoming line and transformer upgrades because of a few EVs that require it. Let EV owners pay the price of their own stupidity.
Should they charge you for the impact of your GHG emissions? Should you pay for the health problems caused by the fine particles your vehicle emits?
@@aplante All of us are paying now for the impact we are having and that of our great, great grandfathers who started this whole industrial mess.. .
My issue is that of being forced to upgrade MY electric service so those with EVs can charge. If new ICE cars required gas pump upgrades I wouldn't expect EV owners to pay for the pump upgrades.
So, pay 40k for an 8k pv system.. buy a manager, don't know the but installed probably 2.5k to 5k to stop output of pv system when your load is too high? 2500 gets you a new solar ready panel is one option. De-rate the main is another option or head of main tap. Just another solar scam.
It’s like changing the gas pedal from cable driven to computer controlled, before you stepped on the gas pedal and the cable opens the throttle, now you step on the gas pedal and the wires request the computer to to open the throttle and the computer decides if you get to go or not.
now you are requesting charging and if the load manager decides you can then you will have charging.
Maybe if you have that much demand you need a bigger panel and more service coming into your house.