What better to come across on a Sunday, than another Casey Jones video. I have no engineering background and am from the UK, but you make it interesting and understandable. You would be a great teacher.
If any company bids, they will definitely include a price to reflect the 'fuck you' factor. 'Oh, you want us to build you a bridge?' 'Fuck you. Here's what it's going to cost you.' We're wrapping up a job that has been a nightmare for us AND every other sub on it. My boss won't accept any more change orders from them now. The electricians had that building completely roughed in and they had to rip it all out. Yes. ALL.
In the early 70s I worked in Providence and commuted daily from Warren, RI. For an extended period, they were down to one bridge due I think to rehab on the older bridge. Traffic was a nightmare, I can't imagine what it is now. Glad I move out many years ago.
P.S. after watch this I have to think R.I. doesn’t WANT a bridge. Just joking; but seriously. Question; what would the Army Corp of engineers charge for a bridge that size?
@@jamesgriffin958 To be honest, probably about the same as any other large engineering firm. The uncertainty is the "Asthetic requirements" which will most likily be imposed on the project on the fly. Design firms for government work are not supposed to be chosen by price, but by qualifications.
Thanks for keeping us up to date on developments. As someone who has to drive over this span multiple times a week, it is frustrating beyond belief to see the slow walk of work being completed. Hopefully the bids will be competitive.
I don't know if they'll actually get any international firms. I see the requirement, mentioned at 13:10, that they would need to have everyone licensed in RI before even submitting phase 1 as disqualifying many companies. Even without the due date, it would probably cost millions to get everyone licensed, just for a chance to say they're qualified! As is, the due date, according to 4:00, is Nov. 26. About a month away. I imagine the common trick to get around those requirements are to use local sub-contractors. However, everyone local has already been burned, or would require massive indemnity clauses from the prime. The type that makes companies nervous.
"Poisoned the well" seems an understatement - it's more like making every future RIDOT project unacceptably risky to potential contractors. If RIDOT thinks blaming and suing everyone but themselves is acceptable, they will need to staff up to "bumble" together their own bridge construction designers and crews. They need to drop all those lawsuits or go without a bridge. As Casey has said before, "if everyone does it, that IS the prevailing standard to be met. On the other hand, those who always go for the lowest bid can't always expect the best result either. My father sold coal from his mine to the government during WW I which might not have been picked clean of all dark waste rock, but "good enough for government work" became one of his favorite expressions that I can remember.
Yes if a low bidder prevails you need to be prepared to either hold their feet to the fire, or hold their hand and help them with the things that go bump in the night with all construction projects. This is the price of a low bid. This means you have to be able to do these things which requires capability to finish design yourself (though you do not necessarily need all the resources in hand.)
Glad you’re following this and keeping us informed! It still seems like a job full of legal pitfalls but sometimes that makes everybody extra vigilant, which can be a good thing. If the FIU pedestrian bridge engineers had a bunch of lawyers and nervous bureaucrats looking over their shoulders, someone might have noticed the design flaws in time.🤞🏻🙏💪🏻
I use this bridge quite often. And they'll probably need to re-route the highway to a new crossing point. I use the nearby Henderson bridge to avoid traffic and for safety. Rhode Island also has the Mount Hope bridge which was built in the 1920's. They haven't even started to think about replacing that rust wad. I've talked to workers on that one. They don't even think it's safe to stand on.😮😅😊
No longer: "I'm not an engineer but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.." Now it is: "I'm not an engineer but I did listen to a Casey Jones - Professional Engineer TH-cam post..."
I appreciate your RFQ walkthrough, covering the different aspects of the project. I enjoyed your explanation of how piers are constructed. RIDOT gets my best wishes for completion by 2029, done safely and correctly. The cost could be money well spent.
Wow! Mid 2029 unless there is some type of intervention. Some form of oversight and redirection is desperately need here. RI DOT's approach to this project is balloon cost and people time and patience.
Thank you! I think the Feds need to take control of this DOT in a more direct fashion. RiDOT has shown that they are not capable of performing effective administration of this project.
@@CaseyJones-Engineer Things do not speed up with the feds taking control... too many cooks. and you would be adding one that is more of a food critic than chef.
Look into RIDOT's replacement of bridges on the I-295 corridor, especially the US-6 interchange, you'll see that they have been doing the bare minimum for a while now.
I enjoy your channel. On the topic of post-storm road repair, do you have any comments about the miners, nicknamed "The West Virginia Boys", who reopened a road in three days in the mountains of North Csrolina? FEMA is said to have turned a blind eye as they did it. Seems pretty cool as temporary remedy.
I’d love to know the condition of the surviving eastbound bridge, and how likely it is to collapse or fail during new construction of the westbound side. If RIDOT inspected that side too, I’d say I’m dubious of driving on any part of that bridge. I love how McKee adds more “days of reckoning” to every proposal.
@CaseyJones-Engineer I drive on it almost everyday you can physically feel it shaking. The expansion joint west bound at the Broadway exit is getting rowdy to say the least. If I'm in my dump truck I'm coming completely out of my seat and it wasn't like that before
@@jdias51 That may be the transition from the approach panel to the bridge structure. The approach panels tend to do this because one end is supported by the bridge and does not sink, while the other end is supported only by the soils. This tends to make a 'ramp' at the ends of the bridge. The 'shaking' is good because the bridge must be able to move. It's when the expansion joints are locked up and the bridge loses its ability to move that problems occur (Minneapolis 35W bridge).
@@jdias51 Thank you. I will definitely look into this. I haven't seen any discussion by RiDOT how the eastbound bridge is supposed to handle twice the traffic that it was designed for.
Great job. I agree with you... Before you said your time estimate, I was listening to you lay out the requirements.... I kinda thought October 2029, the first car goes across the bridge.....
thank you for another great video and analysis!! as i predicted: so far every move that the state has made has been..... let's use the word "disappointing"..... to the folks who live in ri, drive on these roads, and pay hard-earned money for taxes (LOTS of taxes here in ri). (1) the demolition of the bridge has been delayed SUBSTANTIALLY; (2) the COST of the demolition has nearly DOUBLED; and, (3) the initial RFP phase was a complete FAILURE.10 months later and almost NO PROGRESS has been made on even the demolition of the bridge, and there is no contractor selected to begin work of constructing the new bridge. i predicted that this project will make boston's "big dig" project look like a finely crafted, well-run operation. keep your seatbelts on, folks!!! i don't think we've hit the real turbulence yet!
@@CaseyJones-Engineer thank you for the reply! actually, if you consult a map of RI, you will see that there are only two ways to get to southern RI if you live in the north or, conversely, if you are trying to get to the north from the south. yes, the bridge is on a road that runs east/west; however, due to the complicated shoreline & the large amounts of water separating large areas of the state, this bridge actually affects anyone trying to go north/south or south/north. my husband does this commute 5x per week. he has two choices to get from cumberland ri to newport ri each work day. he can take I-95 south, then cross some bridges in south county to get to newport. or, he can take I-195 (which goes over the bridge in question for the east-to-west traffic), then go over some bridges around tiverton and get to newport. NO ONE wants to go near that bridge now, so everyone is now using I-95 to get to and from south county and the the islands, which has increased both traffic and accidents on I-95. yes, he could use the good side of the washington bridge on the way to work and then take I-95 for the ride home, but the point is that this bridge failure is affecting MANY MORE FOLKS than those who are traveling locally in the vicinity of the bridge.
I think the residents of RI have a bit of work to do. It seems that what's taking place within RIDOT could very well be a reflection of a larger issue. Maybe the strong arm tactics being used are the result of a trickle down process? By the time termites become visible massive damage has already occurred. Things that make you go, hmmmmm. Well done. 👍
Why is the other half of the bridge still in service? Wasn’t it built at the same time with the same materials and plans? What are the chances that it will go out of service before the new bridge is completed?
I think there is a real question about the condition of the eastbound bridge, especially so since it is now carrying twice the amount of traffic than what is was designed to carry.
I haven't actually heard of much actual corruption in RI anymore, just some isolated cases. It's not like the old days. Plenty of apathy and incompetence that leads to similar results though.
@@MarcDoughty The news media doesn't want us to know about things that are going bad. We had a bunch of people die from tick bites in 2017. That included my wife. The TV news and newspapers stopped reporting after it got to 4. My wife and 7 others dies in our little area of eastern CT. Good Luck, Rick
@MarcDoughty California can't find enough ways to tax people. Elon moved his headquarters out of California. That is a big loss of revenue for a state government is already incredibly top-heavy . We have Pelosi to thank for that. She just kept making more a more departments under her with no way to pay for it. Newsom is just an idiot patting himself on the back.
Even when this bridge is finally replaced, that still won't fix the congestion caused by 195/44/114 converging over the Washington Bridge and into Providence. We need an East Bay bypass bridge that leapfrogs from veterans parkway in East providence to 95 near Thurbur's Ave in Providence.
Oh, you want the bridge and the traffic pattern to actually work with the new bridge? That is a change order of the highest magnitude. Open up your wallets.
@@steveo4749 Yup. But I think the cost of fixing it is lower than the cost of not fixing it. Circumventing Providence via 295 / 495 adds 15 miles from Warwick to the Cape but probably cuts the travel time. If nothing else it certainly eliminates the frustration factor. If large numbers of thru travelers get wise to that it would be an economic disaster for Providence and SE Mass.
This is one of the problems with replacing a bridge in a semi emergency situation....Should you actually replace it? If so should it be "There"? What is the purpose of the bridge... get to the other side? Be a piece of artwork? These are things for an EIS. When an important bridge is rotting away is the time to make these decisions, not when it is already closed.
There is so much cmplaint (not necessarily by you) for low bid contracting, but, this is how in works where low bid in not used. Yes there is a lot of judgement and as you note hopefully RIDOT has the expertise and honesty and good judgement to follow thru correctly. Like you I also question how a state which has sued so many firms can expect to get a fair and cost effective bid. They have made some stupid decisions on this project including what appears to be some lousy management of the bridge inspection process and reacting to the findings.
Why the need for new soil borings? Use the previous soil borings for new design. Different span lengths would the require a new matching bridge in the opposite direction to line up the bents/piers.
I am repeating the answer that I gave to a similar comment. I have found that geotechnical information that was collected from 60 years ago usually inadequate to use for current design (at least for bridges). In this case, I suspect that the existing pile foundation had the piles driven to rock. The proposed drilled shafts will have much higher loading and will extend well into the bedrock so it will be important to get good quality data for the strength and distribution of these materials to support the design of the new bridge. There is no need to match pier locations between the eastbound and westbound bridges as these are totally independent structures. If I misunderstood your point, please let me know.
@@CaseyJones-Engineer As far as matching piers between EB and WB, depends on potential scour and river traffic. Often old boreings or penetrometer are helpful determining where the rock is at, but only need to be supplemented with a half dozen (depending variability found) cores into that rock. A conservative extra few ft into bedrock can be cheaper than a super precise foundation report. Piers tend to move around anyway during final design.
This sounds like the kind of silliness that local RI media would traditionally be interested in. Not sure today's profit-driven local corporate media would want to take something this complex on however.
I think reusing the foundations would be a smart move if they had more time. It probably takes more time on the engineering side but would cost less overall, if it is deemed feasible.
By not reusing the foundations, they will have longer spans with the new bridge such that most of the old foundations would not be needed anyway. Foundation reuse is extremely rare for bridge projects for several reasons.
@@CaseyJones-Engineer Why could it not be designed with shorter spans? I don't think it's that rare. The Milton-Madison bridge is a good example. Bridge widenings that don't replace the existing foundations are numerous Edit: To clarify, by shorter spans I mean the same as the current bridge
@@coasteringkid Bridge widening pier locations HAVE to line up with the old foundations. Same alignment, built on new foundation. A bridge replacement project can have any change to the structure type and geometry to update to current highway/bridge/maritime requirements.
@@coasteringkid Shorter spans with reused foundations is probably more expensive. Sometimes an existing foundation is in good shape but is in the way for a desired shaft location.
So...what you're saying is that one of the reasons that nobody bid was that nodody wanted to reuse the foundations? If that's the case, between it being a bad idea in the first place and them suing former contractors what did they THINK was going to happen? "We want you to build a bridge in a manner that is bound to get you sued..." Ummm no..."
@@steveo4749 Possible. Some states in the past have layed off all their engineers relying on MBA's and consulting engineers. Doesn't work in the long run leaving no one competent to watch over the consultants and contractors. Needs to be engineers who design. Just having a PE is not enough.
@@michaelmcmullen354 Yes, so true. The governmental agency needs competent engineers on staff to review the work done by consultants. on critical structural design work it is necessary to have another engineer review the work of the primary designer. Safety of the public is the primary goal of the finished work.
it's hard, if not impossible, for the government to protect itself against stupid. The harder the government tries, the more-daunting the response to the RFP's need to become, and more expensive to prepare. Which puts more pressure in the contractors to win and make profitable.
One has to wonder if any business are thinking of filing suites against the state for impeding traffic and business for their failures regarding this matter and then lack of qualified state employees to run their DOT, or have a suitable plan in place in the event of something like this happening to begin with! I think if I had a business there, I might be talking to an attorney.
I cannot help but wonder if RIDOT would be interested in inserting an arbitration clause so as to provide some reassurance to contractors that they won't be sued. As far as the subjectivity is concerned: Perhaps RIDOT could have a number of consultants provide their own evaluations.
Knowing the typical "government decision-making process", the RIDOT will surely just pick the low bidder with a tokens-worth of lip service paid to quality of work or qualifications of the participants. But everything RIDOT has recently done and will be doing now and in the future is to cement their protection should they pursue (or be the subject of) any legal action covering the entire duration of this bridge replacement project.
Thank you. That is an interesting point. I have just been going by recent history where they have consistently not picked the contractor with the lowest price in recent months. Skanska has been getting one job after the other and they have not been the lowest on overall price.
@@CaseyJones-Engineerwhat I've seen with contractors and government bids is that the lowest bidders are usually at cost or just above cost and dependent on change orders for their profit.
@@jdias51 For one thing the existing foundations would have to be reused or perhaps removed in entirity (including piles). A proper selection process would cost this out as well as with more optimal spans, and would evaluate cost and other differences against each other. Nothing annoys a drilling contractor so much as finding remains of an old foundation 30 ft below the mud where they want to drill a shaft. 1930 probably was not the first structure in this river at this site. Possibly utilities of some sort in the river here too.
3 Bridges 🚗🛻🚚 on US-50 over Blue Mesa [ Should they all be Replaced ] & what bridge design should be selected /what would it cost and how long would it take to complete [+++]
How are they handling that everyone must be licensed before the phase 1 proposal can be submitted? Is there some reciprocity agreement? It's due about a month from now.
I have 2 thoughts: 1) The RI DOT is incompetent; likely most of the entire department. It needs to be wholesale replaced. 2) I believe your expectations, Casey, on how this will go is very far off. It would not surprise me if RI gets Zero (0) responses; and instead gets letters saying that "our firm" will be glad to reconsider if you make the following changes in the proposal.
I agree they may get requests to make the proposal feasible. As far as being scared by lawsuits, there are large contractors who can field an army of more competent lawyers than RI ever could. They would price this into their proposal.
Not sure there’s any need to actually replace the bridge. This country has a ridiculously overbuilt highway system and Rhode Island has plenty of alternative options.
Thank you so much! I agree with you that the need to replace these bridges should be carefully examined due to current and future needs. In this case, with over 90k vehicle crossing per day, I think it needs to be replaced. Francis Scott Key Bridge not so much. That bridge only had 30k vehicles per day but they committed to a $2 billion replacement without batting an eye.
To me the bridge as presented in the RFQ seems rather ordinary. I do agree that 3 drilled shafts per pier is better than 2 which would have very large moments in the pier cap. 2 shafts might be better (even with the extra work, falsework, and materials in the long span cap) if the shafts are very long. 4 shafts might have some significant redundency. The reason spans are longer is simply the trend in most economical span length getting longer. 200' is at about the point where longer girder spans begin to increase in cost more than reducing the number of piers decreases it. The labor cost of a steel girders as fabricated tends to be proportional to the length of girders more than the amount of steel these days. In the 1930's when labor might have been $0.50/hr and steel not too much different than now, material cost drove overall cost.
Some of these RI officials should be getting indicted/voted out. The level of corruption is enormous and sadly the taxpayer is gonna have to foot the bill of this growing cost by the day.
I wonder if they are smart enough not to try to screw the demolition contractor over their self imposed delays and how that may impact the rest of the project.
The demo contractor is already one of the firms being sued. There were bonuses for early completion that were blown out of the water by the delay. That alone is painful.
Here in NZ , They propose huge 4 lane links at a coupla bagillion ,,gets told no ,,THEN COMESTHE REAL ONE ,,two lanes at a 3nd the cost ,,,Council guy explained it,,, Go huge ,,get downgraded to what is needed ,,start with what you need,,,End up with a dirt track..
This is the mindset that drives private finance in any large project: the myth of market efficiency, and forgetting that nobody can borrow money or underwrite large risks more cheaply than the government.
With RIDOT's behavior, if I were a bridge contractor, I would have my attorney draw up the contract such that ANY lawsuit, EVER against me, my firm or anyone working on any part of the contract would be immune from any future lawsuits and that if anyone, ever filed a lawsuit against my firm, RIDOT would pay all costs including all attorney fees and any assessed fines forever. RIDOT has proven that they are completely untrustworthy. I think I'd even want money up front before any work is done, like a lawyer's retainer such that any material and work would be paid for before any money is doled out.
One method used sometimes is to create a holding company for the construction and then that company hires others as subcontractors and write all contracts to isolate the subcontractors and only have the holding company as responsible for the construction. Then when the construction is finished that holding company is sold off, going to bankruptcy or put into zombie mode.
My suspicion is they'll be allowed to import a foreign bridge company with much cheaper rates since nobody bid. Remember, this is politics and nothing happens by accident. Oh, and when the new bridge falls apart, good luck finding those guys!
That is an interesting question. I think it is possible, especially if this RFQ doesn't get much of a response. There is also the ongoing Federal fraud investigation that could have future implications for RiDOT projects.
I work for DoD, and you have to be careful when writing a Statement of Objectives or in this case a Request for Qualifications. You don't want to overspecify, and some of the required personnel seem like overspecification to check some political boxes. And making someone sign a form saying we don't peddle influence? Who's going to say yes? That's just to use against you later if they don't like the cut of your jib. By the way, I hope they are using their contacts list to get some unofficial feedback from industry and what they're thinking. You can release RFIs, RFQs, SOOs, etc until you're blue in the face, but if they don't say the right things and ask the right questions you'll never get a good response. I'm always pulsing industry unofficially before anything official comes out.
I work aerospace so comments based on that. I wouldn't touch this contract to many ways to get sued. R.I. isn't wanting to spend money that's why the geotechnical delay. I expect any contractors will want a much more though study of this and a lot more clarification on all other aspects, field day for Legal Eagle. The pilings look strange (too small) - west coast with earthquake requirements vs. east coast requirements?
It is indeed a Saga ..much like the Iliad or the Norse Sagas .. Maybe brave Ulysses would make a bid but he better bring some $ for bribes .. after all it is Rhode Island
The whole situation is a joke and why Peter Alviti still has a job is mind boggling. I love my home state, but the state government doesnt make it easy
THANKS CASEY. I HAVE ONE QUESTION. WHO IN THERE RIGHT MIND WOULD EVEN GET INVOLVED WITH THIS CLUSTER ( ) OF A NIGHTMARE? I MEAN IF YOU CAN PUT AN ADDITIONAL 1 TO 5 MILLION DOLLARS UPFRONT? YEAH RIGHT!
riDOT is like a squatter who in the past squatted in your rented home.......and now wants you to allow them to rent out the home again. all the while the court case is them trying to not pay(taking money from you) why would any company want to work with a government that hates them and is actively trying to sue them/others? who will more than likey end up suing you for any tiny detail you do wrong. who wants to build (even for good money) for someone whos shown to be a nightmare and hunting for a scapegoat. if i worked at these companys i would be thinking this is very high risk
Not much positivity here. It’ll lead into the next election year with how long construction will take. This whole thing was probably slowed down because of it happening during an election year. This whole thing sucks. Anyway I live in the town affected by this bridge shutdown. Nobody wants to work here or visit small businesses here. People from Boston or NYC will move here and out price us locals because they’re used to traffic much worse than here though.
Any firm would have to be insane to submit a bid on this project without guaranteed legal immunity at this point.
🤔🤣💯
Nothing should have legal immunity
@@mangos2888 However, certain people believe that they should.
What better to come across on a Sunday, than another Casey Jones video. I have no engineering background and am from the UK, but you make it interesting and understandable. You would be a great teacher.
Thank you so much! I am having fun doing these videos.
If any company bids, they will definitely include a price to reflect the 'fuck you' factor.
'Oh, you want us to build you a bridge?'
'Fuck you. Here's what it's going to cost you.'
We're wrapping up a job that has been a nightmare for us AND every other sub on it. My boss won't accept any more change orders from them now. The electricians had that building completely roughed in and they had to rip it all out. Yes. ALL.
Thank you for staying on this specific project Casey!
You bet! It's been a wild ride.
In the early 70s I worked in Providence and commuted daily from Warren, RI. For an extended period, they were down to one bridge due I think to rehab on the older bridge. Traffic was a nightmare, I can't imagine what it is now. Glad I move out many years ago.
so nice in these troubled times to tune out the noise and listen to an engineer discuss contruction problems! Thanks for a little bit of respite.
P.S. after watch this I have to think R.I. doesn’t WANT a bridge. Just joking; but seriously. Question; what would the Army Corp of engineers charge for a bridge that size?
@@jamesgriffin958 To be honest, probably about the same as any other large engineering firm. The uncertainty is the "Asthetic requirements" which will most likily be imposed on the project on the fly. Design firms for government work are not supposed to be chosen by price, but by qualifications.
Thanks for keeping us up to date on developments. As someone who has to drive over this span multiple times a week, it is frustrating beyond belief to see the slow walk of work being completed. Hopefully the bids will be competitive.
Certainly! We will know a lot more about how this is going to go in the next month.
I don't know if they'll actually get any international firms. I see the requirement, mentioned at 13:10, that they would need to have everyone licensed in RI before even submitting phase 1 as disqualifying many companies. Even without the due date, it would probably cost millions to get everyone licensed, just for a chance to say they're qualified! As is, the due date, according to 4:00, is Nov. 26. About a month away.
I imagine the common trick to get around those requirements are to use local sub-contractors. However, everyone local has already been burned, or would require massive indemnity clauses from the prime. The type that makes companies nervous.
"Poisoned the well" seems an understatement - it's more like making every future RIDOT project unacceptably risky to potential contractors. If RIDOT thinks blaming and suing everyone but themselves is acceptable, they will need to staff up to "bumble" together their own bridge construction designers and crews. They need to drop all those lawsuits or go without a bridge. As Casey has said before, "if everyone does it, that IS the prevailing standard to be met.
On the other hand, those who always go for the lowest bid can't always expect the best result either. My father sold coal from his mine to the government during WW I which might not have been picked clean of all dark waste rock, but "good enough for government work" became one of his favorite expressions that I can remember.
Yes if a low bidder prevails you need to be prepared to either hold their feet to the fire, or hold their hand and help them with the things that go bump in the night with all construction projects. This is the price of a low bid. This means you have to be able to do these things which requires capability to finish design yourself (though you do not necessarily need all the resources in hand.)
Glad you’re following this and keeping us informed! It still seems like a job full of legal pitfalls but sometimes that makes everybody extra vigilant, which can be a good thing. If the FIU pedestrian bridge engineers had a bunch of lawyers and nervous bureaucrats looking over their shoulders, someone might have noticed the design flaws in time.🤞🏻🙏💪🏻
Thank you! This saga is a long way off from being finished.
I use this bridge quite often. And they'll probably need to re-route the highway to a new crossing point. I use the nearby Henderson bridge to avoid traffic and for safety. Rhode Island also has the Mount Hope bridge which was built in the 1920's. They haven't even started to think about replacing that rust wad. I've talked to workers on that one. They don't even think it's safe to stand on.😮😅😊
I always hold my breath when goin over that Mt Hope bridge.
Thanks for the update!!
Certainly!
I have the utmost confidence in the State of RI to muck this up on a grand scale.
No longer: "I'm not an engineer but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.." Now it is: "I'm not an engineer but I did listen to a Casey Jones - Professional Engineer TH-cam post..."
I appreciate your RFQ walkthrough, covering the different aspects of the project. I enjoyed your explanation of how piers are constructed. RIDOT gets my best wishes for completion by 2029, done safely and correctly. The cost could be money well spent.
Thank you so much! I hope they get this project going soon. It is a real shame for the commuters there.
Thanks!
Thank you!
Wow!
Mid 2029 unless there is some type of intervention. Some form of oversight and redirection is desperately need here. RI DOT's approach to this project is balloon cost and people time and patience.
Thank you! I think the Feds need to take control of this DOT in a more direct fashion. RiDOT has shown that they are not capable of performing effective administration of this project.
@@CaseyJones-Engineer Things do not speed up with the feds taking control... too many cooks. and you would be adding one that is more of a food critic than chef.
Look into RIDOT's replacement of bridges on the I-295 corridor, especially the US-6 interchange, you'll see that they have been doing the bare minimum for a while now.
Rhode Island voters need to elect some new legislators and fire some lawyers and DOT officials.
I enjoy your channel. On the topic of post-storm road repair, do you have any comments about the miners, nicknamed "The West Virginia Boys", who reopened a road in three days in the mountains of North Csrolina? FEMA is said to have turned a blind eye as they did it. Seems pretty cool as temporary remedy.
Thank you. That is a great suggestion that I will look in to!
Before the RI government takes any action on anything, the first thing they have to do is figure out how the Officials will get their cut.
I’d love to know the condition of the surviving eastbound bridge, and how likely it is to collapse or fail during new construction of the westbound side. If RIDOT inspected that side too, I’d say I’m dubious of driving on any part of that bridge. I love how McKee adds more “days of reckoning” to every proposal.
That is a great point. I think there are concerns about the Eastbound bridge and I am sure RiDOT wouldn't want people to know about it.
@CaseyJones-Engineer I drive on it almost everyday you can physically feel it shaking. The expansion joint west bound at the Broadway exit is getting rowdy to say the least. If I'm in my dump truck I'm coming completely out of my seat and it wasn't like that before
@@jdias51 That may be the transition from the approach panel to the bridge structure. The approach panels tend to do this because one end is supported by the bridge and does not sink, while the other end is supported only by the soils. This tends to make a 'ramp' at the ends of the bridge. The 'shaking' is good because the bridge must be able to move. It's when the expansion joints are locked up and the bridge loses its ability to move that problems occur (Minneapolis 35W bridge).
@@jdias51 Thank you. I will definitely look into this. I haven't seen any discussion by RiDOT how the eastbound bridge is supposed to handle twice the traffic that it was designed for.
@CaseyJones-Engineer it cannot sustain the Mt Hope Bridge is also being destroyed from the additional traffic look into that too
Great job.
I agree with you... Before you said your time estimate, I was listening to you lay out the requirements.... I kinda thought October 2029, the first car goes across the bridge.....
Thank you! With RiDOT's poor track record I doubt it would be done much sooner than what you suggest.
thank you for another great video and analysis!!
as i predicted: so far every move that the state has made has been..... let's use the word "disappointing"..... to the folks who live in ri, drive on these roads, and pay hard-earned money for taxes (LOTS of taxes here in ri). (1) the demolition of the bridge has been delayed SUBSTANTIALLY; (2) the COST of the demolition has nearly DOUBLED; and, (3) the initial RFP phase was a complete FAILURE.10 months later and almost NO PROGRESS has been made on even the demolition of the bridge, and there is no contractor selected to begin work of constructing the new bridge.
i predicted that this project will make boston's "big dig" project look like a finely crafted, well-run operation.
keep your seatbelts on, folks!!! i don't think we've hit the real turbulence yet!
Thank you! This whole situation has been a disaster for the people of Rhode Island that have to drive between Providence and East Providence.
@@CaseyJones-Engineer thank you for the reply! actually, if you consult a map of RI, you will see that there are only two ways to get to southern RI if you live in the north or, conversely, if you are trying to get to the north from the south. yes, the bridge is on a road that runs east/west; however, due to the complicated shoreline & the large amounts of water separating large areas of the state, this bridge actually affects anyone trying to go north/south or south/north.
my husband does this commute 5x per week. he has two choices to get from cumberland ri to newport ri each work day. he can take I-95 south, then cross some bridges in south county to get to newport. or, he can take I-195 (which goes over the bridge in question for the east-to-west traffic), then go over some bridges around tiverton and get to newport. NO ONE wants to go near that bridge now, so everyone is now using I-95 to get to and from south county and the the islands, which has increased both traffic and accidents on I-95. yes, he could use the good side of the washington bridge on the way to work and then take I-95 for the ride home, but the point is that this bridge failure is affecting MANY MORE FOLKS than those who are traveling locally in the vicinity of the bridge.
I think the residents of RI have a bit of work to do. It seems that what's taking place within RIDOT could very well be a reflection of a larger issue. Maybe the strong arm tactics being used are the result of a trickle down process? By the time termites become visible massive damage has already occurred. Things that make you go, hmmmmm.
Well done. 👍
Great video. Very interesting. Thanks.
Thank you! I am having fun doing these videos.
10 years. I called it last time. The hemming and hawing will be heard throughout the whole interstate!
It's interesting how an area's dominant culture can affect their pocketbook.
Why is the other half of the bridge still in service? Wasn’t it built at the same time with the same materials and plans? What are the chances that it will go out of service before the new bridge is completed?
I think there is a real question about the condition of the eastbound bridge, especially so since it is now carrying twice the amount of traffic than what is was designed to carry.
EB was replaced about 15 years ago.
@ Replaced or refurbished?
@@StrongDreamsWaitHerereplaced. It’s a totally different design thankfully.
@@StrongDreamsWaitHere Looks like entire superstructure and piers replaced down to water line with some new drilled shafts to accomodate a widening.
Thank you
No corruption? In RI? LMAO
yeah right! the west bound bridge is going to collapse before this gets fixed
Corruption by plan or by stupidity is pretty much universal.
I haven't actually heard of much actual corruption in RI anymore, just some isolated cases. It's not like the old days.
Plenty of apathy and incompetence that leads to similar results though.
@@MarcDoughty The news media doesn't want us to know about things that are going bad. We had a bunch of people die from tick bites in 2017. That included my wife. The TV news and newspapers stopped reporting after it got to 4. My wife and 7 others dies in our little area of eastern CT. Good Luck, Rick
@MarcDoughty California can't find enough ways to tax people.
Elon moved his headquarters out of California. That is a big loss of revenue for a state government is already incredibly top-heavy .
We have Pelosi to thank for that. She just kept making more a more departments under her with no way to pay for it.
Newsom is just an idiot patting himself on the back.
Even when this bridge is finally replaced, that still won't fix the congestion caused by 195/44/114 converging over the Washington Bridge and into Providence. We need an East Bay bypass bridge that leapfrogs from veterans parkway in East providence to 95 near Thurbur's Ave in Providence.
Oh, you want the bridge and the traffic pattern to actually work with the new bridge? That is a change order of the highest magnitude. Open up your wallets.
@@steveo4749 Yup. But I think the cost of fixing it is lower than the cost of not fixing it. Circumventing Providence via 295 / 495 adds 15 miles from Warwick to the Cape but probably cuts the travel time. If nothing else it certainly eliminates the frustration factor. If large numbers of thru travelers get wise to that it would be an economic disaster for Providence and SE Mass.
This is one of the problems with replacing a bridge in a semi emergency situation....Should you actually replace it? If so should it be "There"? What is the purpose of the bridge... get to the other side? Be a piece of artwork? These are things for an EIS. When an important bridge is rotting away is the time to make these decisions, not when it is already closed.
There is so much cmplaint (not necessarily by you) for low bid contracting, but, this is how in works where low bid in not used. Yes there is a lot of judgement and as you note hopefully RIDOT has the expertise and honesty and good judgement to follow thru correctly. Like you I also question how a state which has sued so many firms can expect to get a fair and cost effective bid. They have made some stupid decisions on this project including what appears to be some lousy management of the bridge inspection process and reacting to the findings.
Why the need for new soil borings? Use the previous soil borings for new design. Different span lengths would the require a new matching bridge in the opposite direction to line up the bents/piers.
I am repeating the answer that I gave to a similar comment. I have found that geotechnical information that was collected from 60 years ago usually inadequate to use for current design (at least for bridges). In this case, I suspect that the existing pile foundation had the piles driven to rock. The proposed drilled shafts will have much higher loading and will extend well into the bedrock so it will be important to get good quality data for the strength and distribution of these materials to support the design of the new bridge. There is no need to match pier locations between the eastbound and westbound bridges as these are totally independent structures. If I misunderstood your point, please let me know.
@@CaseyJones-Engineer As far as matching piers between EB and WB, depends on potential scour and river traffic. Often old boreings or penetrometer are helpful determining where the rock is at, but only need to be supplemented with a half dozen (depending variability found) cores into that rock. A conservative extra few ft into bedrock can be cheaper than a super precise foundation report. Piers tend to move around anyway during final design.
Great as always. Still waiting for your review of the F. Manalo in Pasig, Metro Manila :-) I know your a busy guy.
This sounds like the kind of silliness that local RI media would traditionally be interested in. Not sure today's profit-driven local corporate media would want to take something this complex on however.
I think that is one advantage that TH-cam has is that you have time to dig deeper into these issues.
I think reusing the foundations would be a smart move if they had more time. It probably takes more time on the engineering side but would cost less overall, if it is deemed feasible.
By not reusing the foundations, they will have longer spans with the new bridge such that most of the old foundations would not be needed anyway. Foundation reuse is extremely rare for bridge projects for several reasons.
@@CaseyJones-Engineer Why could it not be designed with shorter spans? I don't think it's that rare. The Milton-Madison bridge is a good example. Bridge widenings that don't replace the existing foundations are numerous
Edit: To clarify, by shorter spans I mean the same as the current bridge
@@coasteringkid Bridge widening pier locations HAVE to line up with the old foundations. Same alignment, built on new foundation. A bridge replacement project can have any change to the structure type and geometry to update to current highway/bridge/maritime requirements.
@@coasteringkid Shorter spans with reused foundations is probably more expensive. Sometimes an existing foundation is in good shape but is in the way for a desired shaft location.
So...what you're saying is that one of the reasons that nobody bid was that nodody wanted to reuse the foundations? If that's the case, between it being a bad idea in the first place and them suing former contractors what did they THINK was going to happen? "We want you to build a bridge in a manner that is bound to get you sued..." Ummm no..."
It's like RIDOT has no common sense or and experienced bridge design department. They go right to the "pointing fingers at everyone else" department.
@@steveo4749 Possible. Some states in the past have layed off all their engineers relying on MBA's and consulting engineers. Doesn't work in the long run leaving no one competent to watch over the consultants and contractors. Needs to be engineers who design. Just having a PE is not enough.
@@michaelmcmullen354 Yes, so true. The governmental agency needs competent engineers on staff to review the work done by consultants. on critical structural design work it is necessary to have another engineer review the work of the primary designer. Safety of the public is the primary goal of the finished work.
it's hard, if not impossible, for the government to protect itself against stupid. The harder the government tries, the more-daunting the response to the RFP's need to become, and more expensive to prepare. Which puts more pressure in the contractors to win and make profitable.
What do you think of the Howie Long bridge between Detroit and Winsor?
I think it is a very impressive project.
One has to wonder if any business are thinking of filing suites against the state for impeding traffic and business for their failures regarding this matter and then lack of qualified state employees to run their DOT, or have a suitable plan in place in the event of something like this happening to begin with! I think if I had a business there, I might be talking to an attorney.
I think there are some of these lawsuits by businesses against the state pending.
This RI bridge replacement, is the 180 version of the road repair in Wyoming.
I cannot help but wonder if RIDOT would be interested in inserting an arbitration clause so as to provide some reassurance to contractors that they won't be sued. As far as the subjectivity is concerned: Perhaps RIDOT could have a number of consultants provide their own evaluations.
I would say that's a very aggressive procurement schedule for this size and type of project.
Time is always on the side of common seance
Knowing the typical "government decision-making process", the RIDOT will surely just pick the low bidder with a tokens-worth of lip service paid to quality of work or qualifications of the participants. But everything RIDOT has recently done and will be doing now and in the future is to cement their protection should they pursue (or be the subject of) any legal action covering the entire duration of this bridge replacement project.
Thank you. That is an interesting point. I have just been going by recent history where they have consistently not picked the contractor with the lowest price in recent months. Skanska has been getting one job after the other and they have not been the lowest on overall price.
why can't they just copy the design and build plans from the west bound that recently was replaced?
@@CaseyJones-Engineerwhat I've seen with contractors and government bids is that the lowest bidders are usually at cost or just above cost and dependent on change orders for their profit.
I195 has had traffic problems even before the bridge shut down but it really has gotten worse since then.
@@jdias51 For one thing the existing foundations would have to be reused or perhaps removed in entirity (including piles). A proper selection process would cost this out as well as with more optimal spans, and would evaluate cost and other differences against each other. Nothing annoys a drilling contractor so much as finding remains of an old foundation 30 ft below the mud where they want to drill a shaft. 1930 probably was not the first structure in this river at this site. Possibly utilities of some sort in the river here too.
3 Bridges 🚗🛻🚚 on US-50 over Blue Mesa [ Should they all be Replaced ] & what bridge design should be selected /what would it cost and how long would it take to complete [+++]
I think my company’s NYC office is pursuing this. They might not be getting enough participation because a lot of us are pretty busy.
How are they handling that everyone must be licensed before the phase 1 proposal can be submitted? Is there some reciprocity agreement? It's due about a month from now.
Hopefully they have good insurance, because RIDOT probably will sue in the future.
I have 2 thoughts: 1) The RI DOT is incompetent; likely most of the entire department. It needs to be wholesale replaced.
2) I believe your expectations, Casey, on how this will go is very far off. It would not surprise me if RI gets Zero (0) responses; and instead gets letters saying that "our firm" will be glad to reconsider if you make the following changes in the proposal.
We shall see. Certainly RiDOT has consistently underperformed. I bet some company like Skanska comes in and takes this on.
I agree they may get requests to make the proposal feasible. As far as being scared by lawsuits, there are large contractors who can field an army of more competent lawyers than RI ever could. They would price this into their proposal.
Bectel Parson or Kewitt heavey hitters that can get this done
I didn't know it was possible to sue yourself into a corner.
That is their one talent apparently!
Enquiring minds want to know: Why does Alviti still have a job?
Not sure there’s any need to actually replace the bridge. This country has a ridiculously overbuilt highway system and Rhode Island has plenty of alternative options.
Thank you so much! I agree with you that the need to replace these bridges should be carefully examined due to current and future needs. In this case, with over 90k vehicle crossing per day, I think it needs to be replaced. Francis Scott Key Bridge not so much. That bridge only had 30k vehicles per day but they committed to a $2 billion replacement without batting an eye.
To me the bridge as presented in the RFQ seems rather ordinary. I do agree that 3 drilled shafts per pier is better than 2 which would have very large moments in the pier cap. 2 shafts might be better (even with the extra work, falsework, and materials in the long span cap) if the shafts are very long. 4 shafts might have some significant redundency. The reason spans are longer is simply the trend in most economical span length getting longer. 200' is at about the point where longer girder spans begin to increase in cost more than reducing the number of piers decreases it. The labor cost of a steel girders as fabricated tends to be proportional to the length of girders more than the amount of steel these days. In the 1930's when labor might have been $0.50/hr and steel not too much different than now, material cost drove overall cost.
Thanks for the insight on the structural issues!
When dealing with a whiny owner (and we really did not care if we got the job) we'd stomp the contract by adding in AT LEAST 15% extra.
Great video, but the smoothing filter is unnecessary and distracting.
Thanks. There is no smoothing filter.
@@CaseyJones-Engineer Sorry for the misunderstanding. Must be your naturally youthful skin :)
@@zakbraverman 🤣🤣
This is what my dad would have called a SNAFU
Some of these RI officials should be getting indicted/voted out. The level of corruption is enormous and sadly the taxpayer is gonna have to foot the bill of this growing cost by the day.
Bridge might be rebuilt by 2040 if they ever get a contractor to undertake the contract terms as offered.
I believe that! This DOT is utterly incompetent.
I wonder if they are smart enough not to try to screw the demolition contractor over their self imposed delays and how that may impact the rest of the project.
The demo contractor is already one of the firms being sued. There were bonuses for early completion that were blown out of the water by the delay. That alone is painful.
Here in NZ , They propose huge 4 lane links at a coupla bagillion ,,gets told no ,,THEN COMESTHE REAL ONE ,,two lanes at a 3nd the cost ,,,Council guy explained it,,,
Go huge ,,get downgraded to what is needed ,,start with what you need,,,End up with a dirt track..
I guess they are managing expectations although I am sure they would like the public to go along with the full version of the project.
Somehow I think it will end up costing more than the Key bridge 😂
I think it will if you consider the huge economic impact this is having.
This is the mindset that drives private finance in any large project: the myth of market efficiency, and forgetting that nobody can borrow money or underwrite large risks more cheaply than the government.
That is a great point.
Bozo/Clairabell construction will bid on this project. I hope they win!
B.C. Incorporated!
With RIDOT's behavior, if I were a bridge contractor, I would have my attorney draw up the contract such that ANY lawsuit, EVER against me, my firm or anyone working on any part of the contract would be immune from any future lawsuits and that if anyone, ever filed a lawsuit against my firm, RIDOT would pay all costs including all attorney fees and any assessed fines forever. RIDOT has proven that they are completely untrustworthy. I think I'd even want money up front before any work is done, like a lawyer's retainer such that any material and work would be paid for before any money is doled out.
One method used sometimes is to create a holding company for the construction and then that company hires others as subcontractors and write all contracts to isolate the subcontractors and only have the holding company as responsible for the construction.
Then when the construction is finished that holding company is sold off, going to bankruptcy or put into zombie mode.
My suspicion is they'll be allowed to import a foreign bridge company with much cheaper rates since nobody bid. Remember, this is politics and nothing happens by accident.
Oh, and when the new bridge falls apart, good luck finding those guys!
When do think the federal government will take over this project.
That is an interesting question. I think it is possible, especially if this RFQ doesn't get much of a response. There is also the ongoing Federal fraud investigation that could have future implications for RiDOT projects.
if you want a $10 project to cost$100 involve the gov.
I work for DoD, and you have to be careful when writing a Statement of Objectives or in this case a Request for Qualifications. You don't want to overspecify, and some of the required personnel seem like overspecification to check some political boxes. And making someone sign a form saying we don't peddle influence? Who's going to say yes? That's just to use against you later if they don't like the cut of your jib. By the way, I hope they are using their contacts list to get some unofficial feedback from industry and what they're thinking. You can release RFIs, RFQs, SOOs, etc until you're blue in the face, but if they don't say the right things and ask the right questions you'll never get a good response. I'm always pulsing industry unofficially before anything official comes out.
2034 complete
I work aerospace so comments based on that. I wouldn't touch this contract to many ways to get sued. R.I. isn't wanting to spend money that's why the geotechnical delay. I expect any contractors will want a much more though study of this and a lot more clarification on all other aspects, field day for Legal Eagle. The pilings look strange (too small) - west coast with earthquake requirements vs. east coast requirements?
It is indeed a Saga ..much like the Iliad or the Norse Sagas .. Maybe brave Ulysses would make a bid but he better bring some $ for bribes .. after all it is Rhode Island
I did not notice the DEI requirement for each line item. I'm sure that is coming as this project grows.
The whole situation is a joke and why Peter Alviti still has a job is mind boggling. I love my home state, but the state government doesnt make it easy
Political appointments and clueless hacks.
THANKS CASEY. I HAVE ONE QUESTION. WHO IN THERE RIGHT MIND WOULD EVEN GET INVOLVED WITH THIS CLUSTER ( ) OF A NIGHTMARE? I MEAN IF YOU CAN PUT AN ADDITIONAL 1 TO 5 MILLION DOLLARS UPFRONT? YEAH RIGHT!
riDOT is like a squatter who in the past squatted in your rented home.......and now wants you to allow them to rent out the home again. all the while the court case is them trying to not pay(taking money from you) why would any company want to work with a government that hates them and is actively trying to sue them/others? who will more than likey end up suing you for any tiny detail you do wrong. who wants to build (even for good money) for someone whos shown to be a nightmare and hunting for a scapegoat.
if i worked at these companys i would be thinking this is very high risk
RI Democrat politicians in a nutshell.
Not much positivity here. It’ll lead into the next election year with how long construction will take. This whole thing was probably slowed down because of it happening during an election year. This whole thing sucks.
Anyway I live in the town affected by this bridge shutdown. Nobody wants to work here or visit small businesses here. People from Boston or NYC will move here and out price us locals because they’re used to traffic much worse than here though.
this is all mob, Italian and Jewish , go ask them , when this bridge gets done.
The Engineering madman, creatures of problems you pay for. 😂