Fake Hakko FG-100 soldering tip thermometer test.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ส.ค. 2024
- A test and look inside a cheap copy of an original Hakko product.
It's hard to say how good the calibration is on these products, or even whether the supplied thermocouples are compliant with the type K characteristics.
This unit has faked its two primary features, which makes it fairly mediocre.
You don't need fancy equipment to test your home soldering station temperature. You can generally set it where it feels "right" when you solder.
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![Every Maker Should have...[Pt.39]...a Solder-Iron Thermometer](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yLrHQyJil58/mqdefault.jpg)
Im using my fingers to check temperature. If it hurts as hell it's ready. After some time you actually can tell exactly temp of soldering tip by amount of pain it give you.
And I don't need batteries for that! Just few weeks of 1-2 burn degree scars to heal.
Just damn, your voice makes me relax, I have NO IDEA what you are talking about but I sit back and drink me coffee :3
Try Mike (mikeselectricstuff), he puts me right to sleep.
He makes the most interesting videos, but I need several attempts to finish each one. Maybe I need your coffee. ;-)
You'll not want to watch any Rab C Nesbitt, then. [BBC TV comedy series.] Rab's a very, very, VERY Scottish gentleman who enjoys the occasional drink annnnnd gets a bit... aye. What? Incoherent, is it? Ah! Noooooo. Y'see, it's all about, about, about CLARITY of, of of express-s-s-ion. Hmm. Drunk, am I? DRUNK? No, sir! I ammmmmm SOBER, see? Aye. Nnnnnnnn. What? See you, you, you don't unnnnnnerstan the intric-intric-intricacies of the Scottish language, see? Mmm, me, I can er, eh? What! Nooooo. Gn, ghbffcxx.. bhgvfddc....
It's a FAKKO.
Hake Fakko
Hakkers...
There is a lot to be said for Metcal (and possibly Weller) fixed temperature curie point bits. No calibration or worrying. Put in a tip of the temperature you need and away you go.
Metcal is awesome, unless you are the one playing for it. Whenever I've used them for work, I've been in love, but I refuse to spend that much money on an iron. It seems to me that they hold a much more stable temperature as well. I've never done any proper testing, but there seems to be less hysteresis than other types of tips. Possibly the heating element is more closely coupled to the tip as well?
The price is a bit scary but I retire in 6 months so brought one before having money becomes a distant memory. It is the mac of the soldering world. Switch on, use, switch off. No messing about which is exactly what I want.
I use Metcal irons & tips at work, 8hrs a night and they are a joy to work with. Love them.
You can use a regular thermocouple (open bead) but you must make sure the whole junction is heated by the iron. Use a thermocouple made of thin wire so it does not conduct the heat away, and completely immerse the junction in a blob of solder. Then it is accurate, the thermal voltages from the third metal (solder) cancel out as long as it is all at equal temperature.
At least proper thermocouple give more precise and what is even more inportant - stable readings than 911-212 clone uglies.
Please give AvE one of those focusing sheets
Why? his camera has voice controlled focus ;)
Genuine welded K junctions do not drift over time, crappy crimped K types do!
Metals oxidize, hot metal oxidizes faster.
There has to be a clean metal-to-metal bond, and crimping/soldering/brazing can't do it!
I worked at Nintendo of America; they spent a fortune validating soldering stations and soldering calibration equipment.
Hakko all the way, welded K type junctions.
We would change the tip of the iron as part of the calibration process; didn't want to introduce random items into the mix.
In the many Hakko's we calibrated, we never had to replaced a single K junction due to bad readings.
We broke some, the wires are quite thin.
And yes, we had a calibrated heater to validate the temperature probes!
From experience with cheap 911-212 tip temperature sensor clones for 5$ in a bag at Ali, Ebay etc. I completely agree. They are utter rubbish.
Why use this to measure the temperature of your tip when you can just use your mouth? If it burns, it's hot. If it doesn't, it's not.
That sounds painful. Just touch the iron to the back of your palm and see if it smells like chicken. Out of the various questionable detection methods, that one is definitely much better!
this is why we can't have nice things, like lead solder
Kinda like the electricians of old. Tested the voltage at the bus bars by licking their thumb and forefinger )
People used to adjust the voltage of X-ray tubes by feeling... if it felt too warm under the beam, they'd turn down the voltage: this resulted in cancers of the hand...
"If it smells like chicken, you're holding it wrong…"
Flux capacitor meter.
1.21 Gigawatts??? Tom! How am I gonna generate that kind of power? It can't be done! Can it?
I have the same model (shown in my video voltlog #68). These models have a protective plastic film left on the LCD glass. That is between the lcd and the actual front panel. Removing that protective film improves the lcd visibility a bit.
Another contribution to engineers and hobbyists world over from now till long time to come.
The best way to calibrate the temp of a soldering station is to use a eutectic solder it melts and solidifies at a single temperature it does not go through a mushy cool down phase, clean the tip several times with the soldier, other soldiers will change the melting point of the eutectic solder, When a soldering iron is calibrated that calibration is only accurate for the thermocouple in that Iron tip that was calibrated.
eutectic solder is too expensive.
@@guayabito6946 Sn63Pb37 is eutectic enough.
it's not pink tho Clive, seriously am glad you expose these fakes to many get ripped off every day....
I bought one of the original clones and it was like 100 degrees off!
"original clones" :D
Ive got an ebay Hakko 191 clone which came with a pack of ten thermocouples. the first one was very inaccurate and I thought the unit itself was a dud but all the others have been fine. I think I only have one or two left so I'll order some more soon and see how they fare.
Idea for an alternative implementation: 1. Start with a typical 8 bit microcontroller with built in 12 bit A/D, built in temp sensor and built in voltage reference. Make sure the model has a reasonably accurate temp sensor (So not SiLabs I guess). 2. Add a very high impedance (GOhm) opamp to measure and amplify the thermocouple voltage. 3. Connect LCD, buttons and battery directly along with a few ceramic caps. 4. Use a software routine with reference temps (like ice, boiling water, boiling ethanol) to calibrate to internal component tolerances. 5. Done.
MCU can do all the specific functions itself, including estimating how much internal heat it adds to the internal sensor due to power consumption, as well as cutting opamp power during standby.
Clive doesn't mind the odd zzzaps but shivers for springy components ;-)
Great Video & Teardown Clive. Keep up the great work. Nick.
I'd love to see more of these kinds of videos, breaking down clones of legit products. On Aliexpress there's no shortage of FX-951's from Hakko. You can get them for about $100 (first red flag, as a legit one is around $220), and they should all be 220V. At least, those are the one I've found. Always thought those things were fakes, and sure enough, a friend bought one and it's nowhere close to a legitimate 951 from Hakko.
They certainly tried to match the exterior look so just glancing at it, it looks legit, but up-close there are a lot of manufacturing imperfections in the plastic injection moldings (seams galore), and even simple things like logo designs and placements are either non-existent or misplaced.
I'm curious to see what the interior is like, and if you ever feel like taking a dive into that, I think it would be well received. I'm not against Chinese made products, nor am I against clones. In a lot of cases they can do the job just as well, but I'm sure we all know that some products are far from the original and very unsafe.
when the thermicouple generates 0V, it means it is mesuring the ambient temperature. If you short-circuit the pins, it should read the current ambient temperature.
I bought this or similar for checking the iron temperature of my old Weller PS2D soldering station, it doesn't have temperature adjustment and I didn't know if it would be very happy working with RoHS solder. A few £ is much cheaper than a 500g reel of solder ;p
Clive have you been fighting with your dremmel!!!!!! and from your cuts it looks like you won LOL .
I bought one of these to compare against my real hakko fg-100 and it worked just as well. Yeah its not the same quality and there is no internal switch to change between F and C but it worked well enough for a cheap way to calibrate your iron.
That blob chip could just be a ICL7106 voltmeter, a lot of cheap multimeters do temprature too, they use a 7106 clone.
I wonder how accurate a Infrared Digital Temperature Gun would be compared to the device you reviewed?
I'm gonna send one to Clive. £5 from China. Gotta be a video in that.
It would be useless because the soldering iron tip is rather small and common infrared thermometers have a measuring spot a couple centimeters in diameter.
You can use a thermal camera, and it will be reasonably accurate on the black oxidized part of the iron (not on the solder itself).
If you measure any shiny metal (molten or not) with an infrared thermometer/camera the result is completely useless (unless the meter is calibrated for the emissivity of that one metal and surface finish)
Metals look like mirrors on infrared, they're very hard to read temperatures from.
interestingly thermocouples return a voltage based on the temperature difference between the junction and the other end of the wires, so you have to accurately measure the ambient temperature at the reader end (usually with a thermistor). I'm guessing one of the potentiometers is calibrating that thermistor reading.
I wonder if you could connect one of the special sensors to a standard thermocouple meter and get an accurate result.
I got the cheap black one. Just ordered the hakko knockoff.
But that black one was all ovwr the place. Luckily the black one did come with a wand which is supposed to be a surface probe. And i read i needed to offset my weller up 20 degrees because it was reading low.
But i got this one for $18 on amazon and we will see when it arrives.
My Weller 1010 is brand new so im not sure of theres a break in period but i find it odd i need to offset it already lol
Measuring a thermocouple is actually quite complicated. The junction you want to measure the temp at is affected by the temperature of the connection where the voltage is measured. Thus you have to isolate or measure the temperature of the point where the metal changes from the two thermocouple wires to your conductor (copper for example). This is done my measuring the temperature at the jack of multimeters with a NTC thermistor, or by putting that connection in an ice bath.
So you have to know a temperature to measure the temperature... great.
When you bring a third metal into a thermocouple with your tin you now have three dissimilar metals. This effects your readings. That is why you need special wire if the thermocouple tip is far away from the transmitter. In industry we can have quite long wires from the tip to the transmitter as long as the wires are made from the same metal as the side of the thermocouple it is connected to.
If you use a mineral insulated T/C you would probably get a more accurate reading than the bare one although you will probably have a bit of lag and the rounded end isn't ideal.
'twouldve been interesting to compare the inside of the tm902 too and see how different or similar they are. also if solder interferes with the thermocouple on the tm902 just use it on a dry tip, maybe with a little pressure on the bench to get a good contact between the two
Hey, Clive. I recently got into soldering and I'm trying my best to finish a project. For the project, I have to attach 14 awg wire to some pads but the solder doesn't seem to want to flow around the tinned wire and tinned pad to make a good joint. The joints that get made are so cold I can wiggle them slightly and break them. What am I doing wrong?
Looks just like mine! :-D Can't say I've used it much (still "original" and still non-leaking PP3), and I've found that using genuine HAKKO thermocouples gives the best results. You can get a better result (using a standard thermocouple) if you put a THIN sliver of mica between the tip and the thermocouple - adequate electrical insulation, but seems reasonable enough heat transfer.
Hi Clive,
I didn't notice how the prices compare between the real one and the fake.
That would be interesting to know. I'm sure if I look them up I will find out but thought you would have given that info in the video. Thanks again for an informative video you always do a great job and they are entertaining too.
is it not a long press for the max setting...hence the oval shape rather than circular as per the On/Off..? Like other multimeters?
Fake or not, still seems like it functions well enough to accomplish what you would really need it for.
does it measure the tip temperature with an acceptable level of precision?
My Hakko arrived last week.
It has a matt finish on the display and the label.
Mine has "HAKKO FG-100 THERMOMETER" above the display and "HAKKO" below.
On the back of the device is a manufacturer's label:
HAKKO FG-100
Thermocouple:Type K
Range of measurement: 0-700⁰C
Battery 9V 006P
Made in Japan
HAKKO CORPORATION
I am a little bit concerned about the missing space after "Thermocouple" and the missing punctuation after "Battery". The Japanese are very conscientious and this is not like them.
Moreover if the device is made in Japan why is the manual written in Chinese and the English translation is a little bit sketchy.
As the device arrived about 9 days ago I have not tested it yet.
Not pink.
Unsubscribed.
It's the other pink.
Damn it! You stole my idea before I thought of it...
+David Ellis Happens to me allthe time.
I invent something just to find out it already exists.
Literally unwatchable.
-sorry, apparently a joke went over my head-
What temperature's would you reccomend using for general electronics? I seem to find 380c is a good starting point but is that too hot for transistors or other items?
I tend to go around 330 to 350 for lead based solder, but 380 will probably be fine.
I wonder if it's just the thermocouple wire that makes it accurate. You should try that tri-wire thingy in the the other thiny, to use it technical name.
Have you tried a thermo couple with a protective mantle? Those might give a better reading since the thermo couple itself is embedded in a protective metal shell much like that crimped on piece of metal
Searching high and low for a review or comments by you on the TS100 solder iron others are racing about. Hoping you have a plan!
It might be possible hold the "max"-button down and it will register the highest measurement.
Thank you Clive...think the thermocouple wire needs to be a single contact point to be the most accurate......too long of a wire twist makes it inaccurate and messes up the true resistance#?!....has to heat sink all the way back to the last part of where the two wire touch....like to see you cut the wire and silver solder a small single point then check for repeatable temperature.....again...thanks.
I guess that's half the job of that sleeve, the other half being about avoiding getting solder into the circuit.
I noticed the fakes on ebay as well. I'd love to see a side-by-side comparison teardown of both the genuine and fake.
Never seen that screwdriver before!!
tommy walsh , who used to shill for dewalt on Ground Force tv show, is laughing because poundland pays him some money for his face, when he has to do nothing in return
have you tried not wetting the tip with solder before applying it to a standard thermo couple, or wetting the tip but shielding the thermo couple( with say a ptfe sleeve)? I certainly haven't, but I'm guessing that the solder is messing with the junction's electrochistry....
This transistor-like part must be a temperature sensor to compensate the ambient temperature.
The problem with using thermocouples supposedly is that the repeatability is not that much cop for critical applications.
Also, thermocouples tend to only measure the temperature difference between the probe and meter, so some kind of internal non-thermocouple sensor at the meter end is probably needed.
How about trying a small ring crimp around a normal thermocouple?
I've got a couple of those black meters around and might try this later.
I think anything that allows current to flow between the dissimilar metal wires rather than through the junction is going to throw off the readings.
just use it with a dry iron tip?
Clive this is completely irrelevant to this post but fancy taking a look at both a regular mobole telephone charger (ie) Samsung and a fast charger (again ie samsung) I have a limited understanding of electronics and ekectrickery but not been bothered to spend time to look into it. Regards a fellow jock .
Just got mine for 23 euro including shipment, and im happy with it (if you dont expect TO much afcourse, sure its plastic fantastic, and cheap battery port, and a bit fuzzy screen. But.
it comes pretty close with the real temperature on the display on my soldering station. Only -+5 degree inaccurate. But i can live with that.
The price of a real hakko tip tester i could not, 300 euro in netherlands, are these people high of the fumes or something, to measure a tip temperature?- and then 34 euro for the 3 wire piece kit of 5.
I needed it because i bought some retro Pace desoldering gun and tweezers and other stuff, but Pace retro devices work with a levels control instead of temperature.
well it works. thats what matters to me as a consumer basically. of course it wouldn't be if i am a professional but for me as a consumer i dont really bother too much about perfection on those kinds of things(the kinds of things that don't break other things when they fail).
I see your FG-100 clone thermometer was even more advanced than mine with one sided PCB and single "spider" blob on it :) Max Hold button also only stop the screen update when user pressed the button. Well, from experience with Hakko thermometer clones (have Bakon 191 on table now) temperature on screen is more or less valid. Cheap tip temperature sensors for 5$ in a bag at Ali, Ebay etc. however are utter rubbish. Curiously, but 3-4 sensors of 10 crap piece bag often works. Unfortunately no longer than for next dozen measures. If you already have experience with tip temperature calibrating, you may even manage to finish before stupid sensor permanently fail.
do Chinese people have to clone everything
Yes and even your comment if they had the chance.
Iain Banachowicz who knows your reply may have been cloned just now
Yes its the super power of chinese manufacture.
Along with cheap manufacture.
They might clone me in general lol
Depends of if you are made of plastic or not.
Off topic a bit Clive but what brand and type of solder would you recommend for pcb work. Many thanks, Stuart. Yes I am a novice just learning.
You should use the AVE focusing cheat.
My only question is how the hell are Hakko able to fleece people out of $250 for the original version of this.
New mic? Sounds a little distorted. Love the videos. Hello form the states.
Better to calibrate using the thermocouple in place using a known heat source like the melting point of solder, for example.
Your clothes seem to be exactly the same colour as the device. Was this intentional?
How about using a non-contact IR thermometer to check tip temperature?
Love your videos Clive.
Your hands seem to take a fair bit of abuse judging by the cuts etc that always seem to be present.
Is that because of the work you do or is that because of a typical night out in Scotland?
Try one of those ebay fake hakko fa400 soldering fume extractors next.
who calibrates the Calibrators?
so wish Hakko, Weller and co would make one of these that is durable and doesn't cost an arm and a leg to obtain. Several hundred dollars for a simple thermometer seems extremely exagerrated to me.
1:22 are soldering irons meant to be that hot? i put mine at 250. i dont know if it actually is 250 tho I havent got a thermometer but thats what it says
i know this may be a stupid question but why exactly do you seem to constantly be butchering your hands?
the transistory think can be a temp sensor. Thermocouple measures temp. difference. You need to sense ambient in order to add/subtract it from thermocouple value. Of course this is a crappy fake one. Maybe it's assuming Tamb = 25 deg C and the TO92 is just a 5V regulator.
i have one of these useless items?i wonder what else i can do with it?
Why cant you use an infrared thermometer?
Because the soldering iron tip is rather small and common infrared thermometers have a measuring spot a couple centimeters in diameter.
You can use a thermal camera, and it will be reasonably accurate on the black oxidized part of the iron (not on the solder itself).
Now build something crazy out of all the junk you got :D
It would have been nice if you showed how you identified it as a fake. I just got one of these and I'd like to know if it's fake.
Just the price alone is a clue. Real Hakko stuff is expensive.
does the solder damages the thermocouple?
Do you think one those instant read infrared temperature guns with laser sights be able to accurately read the tips temperature?
i don't think it would work as they have quite a wide measuring area.
Would you say there is any benefit with this one over the "Hakko" 191? Or is it basically the same thing in a different box?
Hakko stuff is very expensive. The cheaper clones usually do an acceptable job.
As far as calibration goes, you use a thermocouple calibrator. Any tech in industries that use thermocouples would have one.
Nice
can you use those termal couples with standard multimeter capable of use those other k- type termo couples on a cord?
Why not, it's just a thermocouple. Just try to use the same materials (alumel and chormel) to join the wires to avoid inducing errors. Just twist them together and it should be ok.
2:30 Am I the only one who noticed that the thermocouple somehow managed to jump on top of the battery door as he set it down?
When the world's going to shit, it's always refreshing to watch a Big Clive video to assure yourself that there's at least 1 intelligent person left on the planet. Cheers Clive 👍🏻
Would it work to put the cheap thermocouple onto the bare heating element on the iron without the casing? I mean that should give a bit more accurate readings. Can you try that?
But that's not the temperature you care about when trying to (de)solder stuff.
it is about how good the iron controls the temperature and i think it doesn't really matter whether you have a bit more metal around
Techtastisch 75 It matters greatly as it is the temperature at the tip that you are, in fact, interested in knowing. The heating element will always be hotter than the actual soldering tip and is not a temperature of any use in knowing, all that matters is what your tip temperature is maintained at. Plus, many heating elements have no void in which to insert a thermocouple or may actually be integrated, physically, into the tip (as a one pice heating element and tip). None of my temperature controlled soldering irons have anywhere that one could insert a thermocouple, for example (the only place with a void are the interchangeable tips themselves where they slide over a ceramic heating element that is secured to the handle assembly).
You should test/review Poundland batteries.
I suspect that many of them are actually the same cells under the wrapper. Would also be interesting to know how they compare in terms of £/Wh and how likely to leak they are. For comparison, IKEA cells are pretty good and only a few pennies more.
I think Hydraulic Press Channel should test poundland/Kodak and other cheap crappy batteries.
Every time i see your hands i think two things.
One, "Dayum". And two "Such a hard working man. Could use some loving~"
Im just being honest here :I
Is a soldering gun that goes up to 1000f safe to use on a pcb if you are quick?
Ιᄃᄐ cʀɛɑм Define safe? Anyhow, the real problem with using such is that you will have absolutely no idea what temperature your components are actually reaching unless you strategically attach some K-type thermocouples to the board. Temperature decreases with distance from the heat gun's exhaust but also with respect to the elevation and emissivity of the various parts and components on the board (e.g. a tall black plastic relay housing will get much hotter than a small white ceramic chip capacitor that is barely above the PCB level.). That can lead to unexpected and sometimes significant temperature variations between components and sections of your board, leading you to cook some while just barely reaching (or not reaching) the critical temperature to liquefy solder on the components you were actually trying to target. You may actually find it easier to just reflow the board in an oven and then just knock it against something to quickly shake all the components off in one go if that is your end goal, at least then you can potentially control the maximum temperature any component can reach and reduce the likelihood of cooking otherwise good components. The critical melting temperature of many lead-free solders is around 220C, 428F, and for leaded solders around 180C, 356F, so you want everything to eventually reach that temperature plus another 20C/36F, or thereabouts, for just a brief period of time and taping a thermocouple to a heavy trace on your board (or drill a snug hole and insert your thermocouple along with some heatsink grease and tape leads down) with (high temp) Kapton tape (with silicone adhesive, not acrylic) is a good way to find out when the board traces have reached that point.
12*C, you have a cold house, mate
Most of my work is outdoors, so it doesn't feel cold to me.
I want to make a cut of every time Clive says Thermocouple.
With every video you upload you manage to have more cuts than last tiime
Clive why does your beard not engross into the camera shot?
It's very well behaved.
Hello Big Clive, Iv'e watched and enjoyed all of your videos, a lot of them more than once. The video quality is fine, but lately there seems to be an audio problem. It's a case of beware the letter " S ". Eyes squint and ears cringe, can you please go back to your old audio quality. Please help, while my ears still work. A dedicated viewer. Trevor.
Calibration instructions for the Hakko 191, seems it would work with this model too as it has both trim pots.
My clone 191 was so fake it didn't even have the trim pots
assets.tequipment.net/assets/1/26/Documents/Hakko/191/191_doc_1.pdf
just use normal but shielded Type K thermocouple ;)
What happened to your hand? Cool vid btw.
You're supposed to wait for the flux to completely burn off and not press down much to extend the thermocouple life...
So it's 12C in your shop? :)
Yup. Lowest this year was around 7C. And that's the temperature of my house... That's what happens when you spend most of your life working outdoors.
Move to Canada, you'll save tons on heating :) I'm usually comfortable at around 20C but I like wearing short sleeve all year long and my friends tend to think it's kind of cold at my place...
Man Clive yer always gashing up your hands and fingers!!
I have the same thingy, works ok... lol
You didn't un-mount the circuit board, no diagram of the board or circuits, someone took the lazy way out for this video
The model I bought turns off after a few minutes: www.ebay.com.au/itm/0-700-Hakko-FG-100-Soldering-Iron-Tip-Thermometer-Tester-5pc-Temperature-Sensor-/111306749619?hash=item19ea6636b3:g:zFAAAOxyTMdTLU0Q
my station tells me close enough