What scares me is I see the headline and I ask myself, "WHICH D&D scandal is it this time?" WOTC is proudly carrying on the TSR tradition of shooting themselves in the foot and alienating their customers at every opportunity.
WotC/ Hasbro. They worship Games Workshops excellency of despising the fans, their valid suggestions, contributions. Only reason they do minimum valuable products is OCD/ tradition trapped DnD players, juicy whales to drain dry because they cant help themself
@@odinulveson9101 Personally, i think the bigger issue here is that no TTRPG has been great enough to slay all the others and be generally held up as the answer. It reminds me of a arguement i got over Warcraft vs DnD paladins, guy refused to believe you didnt need to shackle yourself to a higher power 😂 But ya intill someone makes a /actually/ good product that is so good it spreads like wildfire. We all get what we "paided" for.
There are hundreds of other game systems out there. If you're still sticking with D&D after Hasbro/WotC provided their opinion of its players during the original OGL debacle months ago... nobody's fault but your own.
Honestly, wish they would have made a 6e. Free themselves from the constraints of 5e and backwards compatibility and take the game in a bold new direction.
@@balanceseekerYa, Sure they would of actually had to try and burn off alot people. But they want the banger, the thing to make others collapse from the sight of it. You need to actually make it. Especially since it seems like a large % of TTRPG fans are "I only do stuff if the rules say so" kind.
The fact of the matter is that this is proof that you are simply renting content from them doesn't matter how many characters you make how much extra money you spend when they change the rules and revoke your access that's it Beyond is not going to remain set up for past Edition it is engineered to only play one and they want you to play the newest one so they can charge you for it this will only be a temporary measure on the way to total forced conversion... pencil and paper for life
Only issue is most people dont got enough willpower or balls to be normal. They want to consoooome 😂 But for the people that can fix issues, A+ and even the chance to earn money from their failures.
Let's face it, we might as well keep a ticker in the corner counting down the time to Hasbro/WotC's next screw-up. This is why I've gone wholly third party for 5e content (Tales of the Valiant, Dungeons of Drakkenheim, etc.), while also playing Pathfinder 2e, Worlds Without Number, Shadowdark, and others. Better people making better content.
Agree on Tales of Valiant + Creature Codex + Tome of Beasts ( they got yellow dragons, orange wasteland, purple void and brown sand dragons beat that WotC😂 ), Dungeons of Drakkenheim and actual different TTRPGs publishers and developers from Nordic Frie Ligan/Free League with Drakar och Demonar~ Dragonbane🇸🇪 and Spillforlaget/ The gaming publisher with Dragepust / Dragon Breath🇧🇻. Also Shadowdark! But NO thanks to main WotC D&D and Paizos Pathfinder. The latter is becoming more stained too, ironic😂
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I have mostly switched back to Pathfinder 1e on most game nights, but my long standing level 16 campaign isn't switching Partially because we've been playing for years with these characters and partially because the only thing our group has been unanimous on since I introduced the Perkins crit was that none of us had any interest in the new edition, and we preferred the conglomeration of homebrew changes and additions we've added over the last decade.
@ADT1995 Right there with ya, Pathfinder. My players are almost level 18. They have no desire to go to another system because of how many options for builds they have. Can't really fight against player desire.
Every time I get mad at them, i send them an email that says, essentially, "FFS, just hire me onto the PR team. At least then you won't sound like complete idiots."
I remember using dnd beyond in 2021. Since then I dropped dnd entirely and just use one page rules for a foundation of my own homebrew. My kids like it a lot and it's easier to understand for the younger ones
Correct I am not planning to move from 5e to 5.5 for years if at all. I don’t plan to buy anything from WotC so if I get the new books it will be second hand.
@Scott-sk1rb so true. Bacon is happiness. I've been watching WotC self destruct for a decade now. Lets let WotC D&D die out. Circle of life & all that.
People think they won’t like learning a new system. I bet they thought they wouldn’t like math and reading when they were forced to learn that in class. Now our favorite thing in the world is this one math and reading game. Wait til they find out they’re all fun!
Even beyond not liking a lot of the changes made, Wizards' consistently dodgy behaviour and want to overwrite the existing edition rather than making an appreciable next step i.e. 5.5 made it certain that the next campaign I run will still be 2014 base rules. When my group finishes with that in, let's say, two years' time, Wizards can have the uphill battle to get me to consider neo-5th edition, rather than just switching to Pathfinder 2E.
Since the ogl scandal, I've been introducing people to TTRPGs via (a heavily modified) Index Card RPG. No way I'm bringing new players to a toxic company! Fist bump for leaving a sinking ship!
WotC: "Backwards compatible! You can use the old stuff alongisde it!" *proceeds to try to cut support of it on DnD Beyond AND force update your sheets not only on magic items and spells but also abilities.
I currently feel exceptionally stupid, because I purchased the bundle, physical and digital, without the first thought that it would cause me to lose my original 5E content. So, I'll lose all of the 5E content that I paid for. I've filed a BBB to try to get it canceled, after several days with no response to my support request. So, I guess we'll see. I'm of the opinion that losing my 5E content is theft. I get that the post from 8/26/24 says, "Players who only have access to the 2014 Player’s Handbook will maintain their character options, spells, and magical items in their character sheets. Players with access to the 2024 and 2014 digital Player’s Handbooks can select from both sources when creating new characters", but realistically, how long will that last before they find a way to get around the current promises being made? I'm inclined to create an entirely new account, and purchase the 2024 content on the new account, to ensure that I keep my 2014 content until they remove it altogether. Make no mistake, unless there are drastic changes to laws in the U.S., the 2014 content WILL be removed, likely long before everyone is ready to move on.
Games Workshop once stated that the new Primaris line of Space Marines was not intended to replace, but rather augment, the old firstborn line of models/stat sheets. This was a lie. Wizards of the Coast has stated they want to continue to keep 2014 D&D content compatible with 2024 content. This is a lie. WotC does not care about people who do not intend to switch, as those are no longer sources of income. This is all part of the plan to monetize the player base further. I would not be surprised if very soon, they will begin offering 'DLC', in the form of spell packs, new subclasses, magic items, etc, all designed to be plug and play with the virtual tabletop.
I’ve been playing D&D since it came out… I don’t need a single thing from any store brand. I DM and have groups that have Zero issues with “home brew” rules I don’t use store bought modules, I create my own. But… I have all the books to 3.0… just because… no more though… too much BS… and crap like this is describing… I took so long to be actually mainstream and they just want to F it up.
Well, this is the same company that sent the Pinkerton detectives out over some rectangular printed cardboard. At this point, anything companies do (not just WotC) really doesn't surprise me anymore. Companies basically follow the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition as their business model.
Hasbro/WOTC continues to make me increasingly glad I have moved on to other TTRPGs… 40 years of nostalgia still has me care about DnD, but these days each piece of news about it just makes me sad for what it has become.
They need to be shown that we don't like what they are doing. Because if we allow them try to push such nonsenses they'll do it. Remember, they are corporation made solely to profit stakeholders/shareholders. They don't care about customers at all and will make most profitable decisions for them. So let's show them that every such move can be potencial financial disaster for them ... we customers have the power to drive our hobby in way we want, not their predatory monetary version.
This is why they’re phasing out books and ownership. They intend for their new audience to do as they are told rather than building the game themselves from parts they already paid for.
This is why I don't play digitally and use a 3rd party app for character creation/record keeping. I have a stack of books that can't be taken away/changed and will keep it that way.
From what I have seen with the changes, it just feels like a lot of one step forward, two steps back, but they at least made it novel as it seems that a lot of the changes are designed to screw over trying to actually run the system.
The simple point is that if you don’t like what D&D beyond is doing then don’t use it. Your paying for access to stuff. And just like with Netflix they can take that access away anytime they want to.
It takes effort to be as consumer unfriendly as Wizards of the Coast has been over the past few years. Even if that effort stops at intentionally and purposefully avoiding any and all understanding of your customer base.
I play BECMI since 1992. So happy not being concern by all this. The money is spit out then and is long forgotten... and they won't get a penny from me anymore...
@@orokusaki1243 Is it though? I have to admit, I only skimmed through the immortal rules once, but by that point I decided that just BECM is much better than using the immortal rules in a campaign. So why ruin a perfectly good game by putting the Immortal rules on the shelf? :P
@@elana1463 Completionism. Yeah, BECM is sufficient, even BE can be plenty for players. Immortals was certainly "different". Conceptually a bit like LSD meets string theory meets historical religious/creation beliefs. Playable, but not really the high-fantasy heroic adventures one came to expect.
Fortunately they already got such a backlash over this that they reversed the decision. But it's still a sorry state of affairs that they seem to do terrible stuff like this on a continual basis now.
Yeah, good thing my table does not use D&D Beyond at all. Heck, we have zero intention on adopting the new version. My players have finally reached level 10 in my campaign, and its already apparent how the system is breaking down. And 5.5e makes zero effort to even try to fix high level play. So we all decided to just switch the campaign to Pathfinder 2e once we finish the current mission they are on.
This is why I swapped to PF2E, one of the many reasons. Better system and they support almost every creator and ways to play the game with Foundry and Pathbuilder 2E. Pathbuilder 2E is one of the best character creation tools out there, and the creator charges 5$ ONCE, and it's for life with any future updates/content. Hell, he even has a toggle to play the pre-remaster options, just the new stuff, or BOTH at the same time. I'm pretty sure he doesn't have to give any money of that to Paizo, and they are 100% fine with him making it easier to play the game they made. WoTC would have shut that down instantly in order to charge for it. On a side note, the people defending WoTC at this point in the comments blow my mind.
the group i play in, our DM wants to get the new books and start using the 2024 5e rules, thats his choice to make and its annoying that i now need to learn a whole new update to the system, i really dont understand why this update is not a 0.5 edition. even my DM said if it was a half edition we could finish the campaign with 2014 rules but because its intergrated, its going to make his life smoother to go with the update so when we search for rules and info it will be simpler. nothing like a big company taking a product that works and screwing around with it to make the experience of using it worse.
@@mechaform no, he is a great guy, one of my best friends and a great DM, but he is moving to the new rules because WOTC made it an update. He said if it was a different version he would just stick to 5e to finish the campaign. Its not his fault.
@@douglasreid699 well, if he’s a great DM, he doesn’t need new/amended rules to finish an existing campaign. There is nothing to be gained by disrupting the flow of play. That you took the time to note your objection here shows that it is an unwelcome choice. If your other players feel the same way about this action, then he owes it to you all to leave things as they are for the duration.
@@mechaform but he is following the changes wizards of the coast have made, the new rules are an update and take over from the old rules, its not a different edition, its the same edition. Its not his fault, its wizards of the coasts fault for not making it dnd 5.something E (usually it would be a .5 edition). He said had wizards made it 2 editions he would not swap but because the new rules should be used now they are out, as they overwrite the old, he is going with it. It also makes his job easier and i agree with him by changing. My point is its a wizards of the coast mistake.
I was converted from 5e about late last year, early this year. I wanted to see if these OSR or non-D&D games really _were_ better than 5e like everyone says... Or if it was just a bunch of contrarians. The moment I picked up Knave and Shadowdark, I couldn't believe I refused to try it for so long, lol. It's actually wacky. I'm running some DC20 games. That sh* is fun as hell. In terms of classic medieval fantasy. I've opted to just merge a bunch of rules from systems I think of dope. Rn, I'm just using DC20 As the vehicle. Played Blades in the Dark the other day. It was awesome! I'm playing PF2e next week. A little granular for my taste. But I'll see how it goes. Cyberpunk 2020 is on the table. Index Card RPG, Mother ship, Mausritter. I'm stunned that I almost never left 5e lol. Seriously guys... At this point, it's like... _WHO cares?_ You know? They're all just ideas anyway. Take the cool stuff and homebrew that sh* into simpler system like Shadowdark or smth.
I'm pulling out the C++ compiler to update the PC management program I wrote and used in 1985-1990. I had a working PC creation and management + character sheet printer working for AD&D and 2E. I can update it for 5E.
Just satrted to play dnd a few mont's ago, so still a new player, curently deep in an ongoing campain ( dm was kind enough to let join in the middle), i't would be a nightmare to switch to a new ruleset when I don't eaven know the current rules well yet. Yes dnd beyond helps a lot, but Yeah, i'm not gonna pay 30+ bucks to get a digital version of a book that they will cancel whenever they want. Why not just Let players choose what version they wanna play. People will still try new versions, with new stuff. Dnd is as popular as f...... Thank the media, (looking at you BG3), they should be rolling in money.
The Pathfinder 2e remaster has the same problem on Foundry. Reimport the characters from pathbuilder, and get progressively more and more errors about missing feats and features.
I have been a GM using 5e for over 4 years now (just finished our 2nd campaign) and one of my pc players wants to try being GM and i was all for it. then he said he wanted to use the 2024 version and i am so against it because of the crap they tried to pull in the last year. i dont want to use or buy anything new from them. being GM I got most of my inspiration from 3rd party sources and i feel as though I am doing them a disservice by buying new content from WOTC. They are the main reason WOTC even gained the attention of so many new players and GMs.
If they take away legacy content I'm 100% done with dndbeyond. I do not intend to use 2024 content any time soon. I have a campaign full of new players.
I (still) have a subscription. I was already thinking of canceling the subscription. Reverting the bad decision makes we wait until the end of the year, so they can undo another mistake wotc made. They removed the a-la-carte option to buy stuff (which i did regularly) By the end if the year if that option is not back I am thinking of really cancelling the subscription and get all my money back (luckily paid with creditcard) It is fine If they block the account then.
But it's not a new edition guys. That's why there's new books and they want to take away access to the 2014 rules. "BUY OUR NEW EDITION!" I have no interest in changing rulesets.
It's a good sign that I don't care about WOTC scandals anymore. I've already jumped ship and don't plan on returning. I implore you to stop supporting them by making 3rd party material for them.
The dangers of misguided and self-aggrandizing executives serving the shareholders at the expense of the consumers. The cheapening and ruination of yet another IP/product.
Ive moved to Pathfinder since the OGL debacle. No regrets Pathfinder is more fun, the 3 action econamy is quite fun to use, and the creators just actually care about the player base
Why is the first thing a scandal? The product was not out yet and the individual probably posted something before the embargo was lifted. OR if the video was manually flagged, then the person running the social media portion of WOTC did not get the memo to let people do this.
At this point, I no don't care what Hasbro and WotC does with the game. It will no longer affect my game. I have bought my last official 5E source book. I still have my Chessex map and markers. I still have my books and dice from the 80s. And while the stupidity of the current decisions may kill the game we have all loved, they are not the only game in town. I only mourn for the rising generation that will not have the experience we all had around the dinning room table.
If WOTC was smart they would add support for all the older editions of D&D, if they want the grognards to play with their website they need to put things on the website that entices the grognards to use it. Im a paper guy myself i don't use dnd beyond unless i need to look up a spell or something of that nature.
Great video; you summed up the problem quite nicely. WOTC needs to pull their heads out of their butts. Don't piss off the fandom. REPEAT after me: Pathfinder.
So is this a D&D channel or not? Now it’s just about bashing D&D because pathfinder doesn’t get enough clicks? This used to be one of my favorite channels and you have great dm/gm device but now it doesn’t seem like there is any of that anymore and that’s too bad. And before I am called a D&D fanboy I have play many system including pathfinder (which I love) and many many others. My problem is it seems it’s mostly about trashing D&D now not about GM advice.
@@theDMLair your first line. “You can’t make D&D scandal videos fast enough these days” I was a huge fan of yours because you used to not do click bate type stuff and stay away from the twitter bs. But that’s what I guess what it becomes when your channel gets big enough.
Just wait until D&D Beyond doesn't support the 2014 rules any more. Or when you use the new rules and a rules update trashes your character. Caveat emptor (buyer beware)
I just don’t get why they can’t let us choose. I payed for all my books why am I not allowed to play how I want? I just wish there was an option to say: Class: Wizard (2014) or Wizard (2024)
You are totally allowed to play how you want, just not by using dndbeyond. Find alternatives - paper sheets or fillable pdf sheets, and look up the info in your PHB and other supplements. Don't forget that Hasbro/WotC acquired the tool "dndbeyond" in 2022.
Yup; Professor Dungeon Master already covered this on Dungeon Craft, but this take extends the reach of that message: Hasbro/WotC sucks, so go totally third party for 5e content or try practically anything else because those are now more viable options than ever before. MetaGrave nails it: "Better people making better content."
The only thing Jordan is silent had to agree to was to not show images from inside the book. And he did a live stream page by page flip through showing all of it. I mean . . what did you expect to happen?
I honestly think we need to stop saying WOTC is making the decisions they're not its the hasbro execs calling all the shots if they say do this WOTC has NO choice but hasbro learned they can't beat us the community after the OGL incident so they backtracked it's HASBRO making all the mistakes and bad calls not WOTC and I think it's time we redirect appropriately.
This whole "scandal" is thrown so out of proportion. How many spells actually had any changes between versions? A dozen, two dozen - out of hundreds?! Everyone acts like the damn sky is falling every time WotC missteps. There are a dozen character builders, including pen and paper. Stop whining and stomping your feet like children every time something changes. I guarantee I'm going to have confused players who are going to build characters with mixed content from all the choices because they'll have access to everything in the compendium on their character sheet. I had problems before, it'll only be worse now. I hope DDB has better tools to pick and choose now. It is a pain feeling like I have to check every single character sheet for a stray spell, you know players will only pick what they think is the coolest. Players rarely put the work in to make sure they are choosing from the correct books - unless they have to actually use the books.
You have missed the point completely. They promised this new edition was, "100% backwards compatible." By removing content that is now a lie. Maybe the company that first tried to steal content from creators, hired the Pinkertons to attack/harass someone, and lies over and over again should be held accountable instead of blaming the consumers they are attempting to fleece.
@@seto_kaiba_ How does it feel to leave your emotional well being up to a corporation that doesn't care about you? I run and play over a dozen different games professionally, including D&D. Yet I am not nearly as bothered by their decisions as so many others. The day they go too far I will simply stop spending money with them, like I've done with numerous other corporations that make f* up decisions (Amazon, Uber, etc). The annoying thing is everywhere I go is some SCANDAL headline. The videos with Mike Shea and Treantmonk were way more normal and down to earth. Heck, this one is even a week late! I'm just plain tired of everyone giving WotC so much of their energy and me having to see the fake outrage everywhere I turn.
This is why I don’t use beyond I only use roll 20 due to when I player can’t make it but can at home like during COVID that for maps with friends who use and was outvoted. My games are still analog because of the not needing internet for the games and I’m not buying digital books I trying to not using my computer all the time but I do get using these systems just not for very little thing.
You need to provide alternatives on how they can make money out of this game. Not sure they can just keep adding adventures and monsters and sell those. They would need to bring our new editions (or kinda new editions in this case).
The main issue is DnD and the lot of TTRPG can be played for cheap as do you need /their/ stuff to play? Gw gets around it for having cool models and dominion over their players heads. Dnd is a weak choas god who cant claim your soul 😂😂
dndbeyond subs, a VTT that's actually good, other stuff... (it's not my responsibility to be their business strategist) Let's be honest. The 2024 books are *basically* just a homebrew version of 5e -- it's essentially no different than any other 3rd party riff on 5e, except it was made by WotC. What I want: a book of classes and subclasses that includes everything from 2014, 2024, official expansions, along with some (paid) collab from high-profile 3rd party creators (a couple new classes and a decent-sized handful of subclasses). Those are the options I personally enjoy, and having all that stuff in one place would be golden for me. I feel I'd also pay good money for an easy-to-use simulator (Monte Carlo style) for building combat encounters. One that would integrate with a party in a ddb campaign. Let me choose the party, choose a 'remaining resource level' (full, high, med, low, tapped-out), choose monsters, and then have a simulation run it 5000 times. Then give me some quick stats about the results. Others have done it somewhat jankily, but it's a hole that's begging to be filled to make DM'ing easier.
@@this_epic_name Only bad thing is, Witches of the Coast got that GW sickness. Complete dominace of the market but dont crave the money hard enough to do that. I think it would be better off to pay a coding team to make that. Doe sound idea.
@@Pobafett no one has a problem with them making a new edition the problem is them trying to stop you from using a product you paid for. If Toyota wants to make new trucks more power to them but they can’t send a guy to blow up my old truck just because I’m still driving it
Understanding the product is a bit important. It has never been meant to be milked, it is meant to simply ride the wave that the customers generate on their own. It is kind of like buying a set of knives for your kitchen..the game system and supplements are tools. To miss that point and try applying micro-transactions and subscriptions, clearly shows they the executives and shareholders have no regard for the consumers.
“If buying isn’t owning, piracy isn’t theft.”
For real
I'm not giving money to people who obviously hate me.
What scares me is I see the headline and I ask myself, "WHICH D&D scandal is it this time?"
WOTC is proudly carrying on the TSR tradition of shooting themselves in the foot and alienating their customers at every opportunity.
They are trying to beat GW "edit" that Emperor of Mankind a idiot 😂
WotC/ Hasbro. They worship Games Workshops excellency of despising the fans, their valid suggestions, contributions. Only reason they do minimum valuable products is OCD/ tradition trapped DnD players, juicy whales to drain dry because they cant help themself
I mean beating They Sue Religiously’s reputation is a mighty high bar. Lucky for us Hasbro/WoTC has proudly shouted “Hold my Bud Light!!”
@@odinulveson9101 Personally, i think the bigger issue here is that no TTRPG has been great enough to slay all the others and be generally held up as the answer.
It reminds me of a arguement i got over Warcraft vs DnD paladins, guy refused to believe you didnt need to shackle yourself to a higher power 😂
But ya intill someone makes a /actually/ good product that is so good it spreads like wildfire. We all get what we "paided" for.
There are hundreds of other game systems out there. If you're still sticking with D&D after Hasbro/WotC provided their opinion of its players during the original OGL debacle months ago... nobody's fault but your own.
Let this be a lesson that using D&D beyond means you own nothing and can be taken away a anytime.
You mean like 99% of video games nowadays ??
@@matgui4052yes. Also, stop buying video games you don't own. Just say no.
This is just another reason why I don't mess with D&D Beyond anymore. I used to love D&D Beyond. Such a shame.
If they wanted a 6e, they should've made a 6e. If you're gonna 5.5 you gotta acknowledge both 5s
Honestly, wish they would have made a 6e. Free themselves from the constraints of 5e and backwards compatibility and take the game in a bold new direction.
@@balanceseekerYa, Sure they would of actually had to try and burn off alot people.
But they want the banger, the thing to make others collapse from the sight of it. You need to actually make it.
Especially since it seems like a large % of TTRPG fans are "I only do stuff if the rules say so" kind.
All they care about is implementing a closed ecosystem where they can maximize revenue with micro transactions and loot boxes.
The fact of the matter is that this is proof that you are simply renting content from them
doesn't matter how many characters you make how much extra money you spend when they change the rules and revoke your access that's it Beyond is not going to remain set up for past Edition it is engineered to only play one and they want you to play the newest one so they can charge you for it this will only be a temporary measure on the way to total forced conversion... pencil and paper for life
Only issue is most people dont got enough willpower or balls to be normal. They want to consoooome 😂
But for the people that can fix issues, A+ and even the chance to earn money from their failures.
This is why i havent looked back since leaving DND/WOTC/HASBRO for PF2E/PAIZO during the OGL/pinkerton scandals.
Let's face it, we might as well keep a ticker in the corner counting down the time to Hasbro/WotC's next screw-up. This is why I've gone wholly third party for 5e content (Tales of the Valiant, Dungeons of Drakkenheim, etc.), while also playing Pathfinder 2e, Worlds Without Number, Shadowdark, and others. Better people making better content.
Agree on Tales of Valiant + Creature Codex + Tome of Beasts ( they got yellow dragons, orange wasteland, purple void and brown sand dragons beat that WotC😂 ), Dungeons of Drakkenheim and actual different TTRPGs publishers and developers from Nordic Frie Ligan/Free League with Drakar och Demonar~ Dragonbane🇸🇪 and Spillforlaget/ The gaming publisher with Dragepust / Dragon Breath🇧🇻. Also Shadowdark! But NO thanks to main WotC D&D and Paizos Pathfinder. The latter is becoming more stained too, ironic😂
Or a sign that says 'It's been ____ many days since the last scandal"
@@eclectic_nerd Just coming here to write exactly this.
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I have mostly switched back to Pathfinder 1e on most game nights, but my long standing level 16 campaign isn't switching
Partially because we've been playing for years with these characters and partially because the only thing our group has been unanimous on since I introduced the Perkins crit was that none of us had any interest in the new edition, and we preferred the conglomeration of homebrew changes and additions we've added over the last decade.
@ADT1995 Right there with ya, Pathfinder. My players are almost level 18. They have no desire to go to another system because of how many options for builds they have. Can't really fight against player desire.
Every time I get mad at them, i send them an email that says, essentially, "FFS, just hire me onto the PR team. At least then you won't sound like complete idiots."
I remember using dnd beyond in 2021. Since then I dropped dnd entirely and just use one page rules for a foundation of my own homebrew. My kids like it a lot and it's easier to understand for the younger ones
I solved the problem. I left WotC in Janurary and never looked back. Better game systems exist. Thank you Hasbro for showing me the way.
Correct I am not planning to move from 5e to 5.5 for years if at all. I don’t plan to buy anything from WotC so if I get the new books it will be second hand.
Hasbro will never see another dollar from my wallet.
Stop giving WotC your money and attention. Instead, spend it on other games and bacon. You will be happier.
Yes. A pound of bacon for every scandal and blunder, and you won't go hungry for a long time.
I personally say just make your own Boardgame. It not like it a arcane art like coding. Just need some base rules, paper and Grafting mood.
@Scott-sk1rb so true. Bacon is happiness. I've been watching WotC self destruct for a decade now. Lets let WotC D&D die out. Circle of life & all that.
People think they won’t like learning a new system. I bet they thought they wouldn’t like math and reading when they were forced to learn that in class.
Now our favorite thing in the world is this one math and reading game. Wait til they find out they’re all fun!
@@SamuelDancingGallewI'm always hungry for bacon
Even beyond not liking a lot of the changes made, Wizards' consistently dodgy behaviour and want to overwrite the existing edition rather than making an appreciable next step i.e. 5.5 made it certain that the next campaign I run will still be 2014 base rules.
When my group finishes with that in, let's say, two years' time, Wizards can have the uphill battle to get me to consider neo-5th edition, rather than just switching to Pathfinder 2E.
I say make your own Boardgame, take all theit money and earn it 😮
Since the ogl scandal, i dropped dnd for shadow of the demonlord! Sad to see all the crap going on with wotc now...
Can't wait for the shadow of the weird wizard to ship! Rob Schwab has a great system on his hands
Eyyy fellow shadow of the demon lord enjoyer ❤
Tasha was the biggest red flag, they literally killed races and transformed into just "skins". After that was only getting worst
Since the ogl scandal, I've been introducing people to TTRPGs via (a heavily modified) Index Card RPG. No way I'm bringing new players to a toxic company! Fist bump for leaving a sinking ship!
WotC: "Backwards compatible! You can use the old stuff alongisde it!"
*proceeds to try to cut support of it on DnD Beyond AND force update your sheets not only on magic items and spells but also abilities.
Prime example why I won't buy or even play anything Wizards of the Coast produces or touches. I avoid their products like the plague.
I currently feel exceptionally stupid, because I purchased the bundle, physical and digital, without the first thought that it would cause me to lose my original 5E content. So, I'll lose all of the 5E content that I paid for. I've filed a BBB to try to get it canceled, after several days with no response to my support request. So, I guess we'll see. I'm of the opinion that losing my 5E content is theft.
I get that the post from 8/26/24 says, "Players who only have access to the 2014 Player’s Handbook will maintain their character options, spells, and magical items in their character sheets. Players with access to the 2024 and 2014 digital Player’s Handbooks can select from both sources when creating new characters", but realistically, how long will that last before they find a way to get around the current promises being made?
I'm inclined to create an entirely new account, and purchase the 2024 content on the new account, to ensure that I keep my 2014 content until they remove it altogether. Make no mistake, unless there are drastic changes to laws in the U.S., the 2014 content WILL be removed, likely long before everyone is ready to move on.
I own enough basic D&D thru 5e books/modules, that I never need to buy another D&D product for the next 50 years!
Amen!
Love wheb people got enough grit to do it on their own.
Games Workshop once stated that the new Primaris line of Space Marines was not intended to replace, but rather augment, the old firstborn line of models/stat sheets. This was a lie.
Wizards of the Coast has stated they want to continue to keep 2014 D&D content compatible with 2024 content. This is a lie.
WotC does not care about people who do not intend to switch, as those are no longer sources of income. This is all part of the plan to monetize the player base further.
I would not be surprised if very soon, they will begin offering 'DLC', in the form of spell packs, new subclasses, magic items, etc, all designed to be plug and play with the virtual tabletop.
I’ve been playing D&D since it came out… I don’t need a single thing from any store brand. I DM and have groups that have Zero issues with “home brew” rules I don’t use store bought modules, I create my own. But… I have all the books to 3.0… just because… no more though… too much BS… and crap like this is describing… I took so long to be actually mainstream and they just want to F it up.
So glad non of this affects me or my group, we decided to stick to 3.5
Same here. WotC can suck it.
I run a hybrid of 3.5 and pathfinder 1e, myself. My group at the lounge I play at was eager for a DM that would run that edition.
Well, this is the same company that sent the Pinkerton detectives out over some rectangular printed cardboard. At this point, anything companies do (not just WotC) really doesn't surprise me anymore. Companies basically follow the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition as their business model.
I'm changing over to Shadow Dark, Draw Steel and DC20...
Was'nt that fix last week. They said that everything will be available finaly
Yeah the backlash made them make it so you can toggle it or something.
Hasbro/WOTC continues to make me increasingly glad I have moved on to other TTRPGs… 40 years of nostalgia still has me care about DnD, but these days each piece of news about it just makes me sad for what it has become.
They need to be shown that we don't like what they are doing. Because if we allow them try to push such nonsenses they'll do it. Remember, they are corporation made solely to profit stakeholders/shareholders. They don't care about customers at all and will make most profitable decisions for them. So let's show them that every such move can be potencial financial disaster for them ... we customers have the power to drive our hobby in way we want, not their predatory monetary version.
The new rules don’t make the game any better. They didn’t address any of the fundamental problems with 5e.
This is why they’re phasing out books and ownership.
They intend for their new audience to do as they are told rather than building the game themselves from parts they already paid for.
This is why I don't use DND beyond. You don't own the stuff you buy
Great video, Luke! IMO--yeah, it was intentional.
I'm leaning that way myself. I've worked at big companies before; I've known executives; I have a feel for how things often work.
This is why I don't play digitally and use a 3rd party app for character creation/record keeping. I have a stack of books that can't be taken away/changed and will keep it that way.
Every bit of D&D news has me glad I switched to DC20.
From what I have seen with the changes, it just feels like a lot of one step forward, two steps back, but they at least made it novel as it seems that a lot of the changes are designed to screw over trying to actually run the system.
The simple point is that if you don’t like what D&D beyond is doing then don’t use it. Your paying for access to stuff. And just like with Netflix they can take that access away anytime they want to.
No one should get credit for “doing the right thing” when it is just backpedaling after getting caught “doing the wrong thing”.
It takes effort to be as consumer unfriendly as Wizards of the Coast has been over the past few years. Even if that effort stops at intentionally and purposefully avoiding any and all understanding of your customer base.
I play BECMI since 1992.
So happy not being concern by all this. The money is spit out then and is long forgotten... and they won't get a penny from me anymore...
BECMI is nice. Luke is missing the "I" on his bookshelf.
@@orokusaki1243 Is it though? I have to admit, I only skimmed through the immortal rules once, but by that point I decided that just BECM is much better than using the immortal rules in a campaign. So why ruin a perfectly good game by putting the Immortal rules on the shelf? :P
@@elana1463 you got it right
I say that I play BECMI, when in fact I ay BECM
@@elana1463 Completionism.
Yeah, BECM is sufficient, even BE can be plenty for players.
Immortals was certainly "different". Conceptually a bit like LSD meets string theory meets historical religious/creation beliefs. Playable, but not really the high-fantasy heroic adventures one came to expect.
Fortunately they already got such a backlash over this that they reversed the decision. But it's still a sorry state of affairs that they seem to do terrible stuff like this on a continual basis now.
Castles & Crusades. Great system - and they actually LIKE their players/customers and respect the founders of RPGs as we know it.
Yeah, good thing my table does not use D&D Beyond at all. Heck, we have zero intention on adopting the new version. My players have finally reached level 10 in my campaign, and its already apparent how the system is breaking down. And 5.5e makes zero effort to even try to fix high level play. So we all decided to just switch the campaign to Pathfinder 2e once we finish the current mission they are on.
This is why I swapped to PF2E, one of the many reasons. Better system and they support almost every creator and ways to play the game with Foundry and Pathbuilder 2E. Pathbuilder 2E is one of the best character creation tools out there, and the creator charges 5$ ONCE, and it's for life with any future updates/content. Hell, he even has a toggle to play the pre-remaster options, just the new stuff, or BOTH at the same time. I'm pretty sure he doesn't have to give any money of that to Paizo, and they are 100% fine with him making it easier to play the game they made. WoTC would have shut that down instantly in order to charge for it. On a side note, the people defending WoTC at this point in the comments blow my mind.
So done with WOTC LOL. This is why I play DC20. They will never screw me over.
Never say never
@@kevinc8369 Agreed. Just a matter of time until a lucrative offer to buy them out with corporate funds comes along.
Unless it your own system, you are never safe from it being converted.
@@Subject_Keter I know the designer of DC20 and I work for him. I think I'm pretty safe.
@Wolvesofthenight That's awesome, and as a backer I'm hopeful as well
But not having worked with TDC, my cautious brain agrees with "never say never"
Eventually you will realize you dont need D&D to have "DnD".
the group i play in, our DM wants to get the new books and start using the 2024 5e rules, thats his choice to make and its annoying that i now need to learn a whole new update to the system, i really dont understand why this update is not a 0.5 edition. even my DM said if it was a half edition we could finish the campaign with 2014 rules but because its intergrated, its going to make his life smoother to go with the update so when we search for rules and info it will be simpler.
nothing like a big company taking a product that works and screwing around with it to make the experience of using it worse.
Get a different DM.
@@mechaform no, he is a great guy, one of my best friends and a great DM, but he is moving to the new rules because WOTC made it an update. He said if it was a different version he would just stick to 5e to finish the campaign. Its not his fault.
@@douglasreid699 well, if he’s a great DM, he doesn’t need new/amended rules to finish an existing campaign. There is nothing to be gained by disrupting the flow of play. That you took the time to note your objection here shows that it is an unwelcome choice. If your other players feel the same way about this action, then he owes it to you all to leave things as they are for the duration.
@@mechaform but he is following the changes wizards of the coast have made, the new rules are an update and take over from the old rules, its not a different edition, its the same edition.
Its not his fault, its wizards of the coasts fault for not making it dnd 5.something E (usually it would be a .5 edition).
He said had wizards made it 2 editions he would not swap but because the new rules should be used now they are out, as they overwrite the old, he is going with it. It also makes his job easier and i agree with him by changing. My point is its a wizards of the coast mistake.
@@douglasreid699 enjoy your game
Heads up, the red trim on the thumbnail cut off by your photo of you makes it look like i already watched most of the video
My DM was livid about the dndbeyond news, patience I said, this is going to blow up in their faces
I believe this is the third or fourth video with an almost identical title.
Man, that algorithm is so VERY, VERY hungry.
I was converted from 5e about late last year, early this year. I wanted to see if these OSR or non-D&D games really _were_ better than 5e like everyone says... Or if it was just a bunch of contrarians.
The moment I picked up Knave and Shadowdark, I couldn't believe I refused to try it for so long, lol. It's actually wacky. I'm running some DC20 games. That sh* is fun as hell.
In terms of classic medieval fantasy. I've opted to just merge a bunch of rules from systems I think of dope. Rn, I'm just using DC20 As the vehicle. Played Blades in the Dark the other day. It was awesome!
I'm playing PF2e next week. A little granular for my taste. But I'll see how it goes. Cyberpunk 2020 is on the table. Index Card RPG, Mother ship, Mausritter. I'm stunned that I almost never left 5e lol.
Seriously guys... At this point, it's like... _WHO cares?_ You know? They're all just ideas anyway. Take the cool stuff and homebrew that sh* into simpler system like Shadowdark or smth.
I'm pulling out the C++ compiler to update the PC management program I wrote and used in 1985-1990.
I had a working PC creation and management + character sheet printer working for AD&D and 2E.
I can update it for 5E.
No one cares.
Just satrted to play dnd a few mont's ago, so still a new player, curently deep in an ongoing campain ( dm was kind enough to let join in the middle), i't would be a nightmare to switch to a new ruleset when I don't eaven know the current rules well yet. Yes dnd beyond helps a lot, but Yeah, i'm not gonna pay 30+ bucks to get a digital version of a book that they will cancel whenever they want. Why not just Let players choose what version they wanna play. People will still try new versions, with new stuff. Dnd is as popular as f...... Thank the media, (looking at you BG3), they should be rolling in money.
The Pathfinder 2e remaster has the same problem on Foundry. Reimport the characters from pathbuilder, and get progressively more and more errors about missing feats and features.
I have been a GM using 5e for over 4 years now (just finished our 2nd campaign) and one of my pc players wants to try being GM and i was all for it. then he said he wanted to use the 2024 version and i am so against it because of the crap they tried to pull in the last year. i dont want to use or buy anything new from them. being GM I got most of my inspiration from 3rd party sources and i feel as though I am doing them a disservice by buying new content from WOTC. They are the main reason WOTC even gained the attention of so many new players and GMs.
If they take away legacy content I'm 100% done with dndbeyond.
I do not intend to use 2024 content any time soon. I have a campaign full of new players.
I (still) have a subscription. I was already thinking of canceling the subscription. Reverting the bad decision makes we wait until the end of the year, so they can undo another mistake wotc made. They removed the a-la-carte option to buy stuff (which i did regularly) By the end if the year if that option is not back I am thinking of really cancelling the subscription and get all my money back (luckily paid with creditcard) It is fine If they block the account then.
Wait... youre telling me the company known to be scummy and hate its community are scummy and hate its community!????
But it's not a new edition guys. That's why there's new books and they want to take away access to the 2014 rules. "BUY OUR NEW EDITION!"
I have no interest in changing rulesets.
Are dungeontubers releasing videos on this topic staggered days apart on purpose? I swear I saw a video about this topic a week ago.
It's a good sign that I don't care about WOTC scandals anymore. I've already jumped ship and don't plan on returning. I implore you to stop supporting them by making 3rd party material for them.
the only thing this is "encouraging" me to do is sail the high seas
Hasbro is a dumpster fire in progress. I am glad I jumped ship over the OGL and havent looked back. WOTC is only doing what Hasbro is mandating.
It's backwards compatible! As long as you upgrade.
Oh oh oh, but they decided to backpedal on this… So all is forgotten right?
When will people learn? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me two, three, four, five, six, seven....
If we'd purchased the original core books, are we gonna need to buy the new core books to get the new material?
Yes you will, all the books (PHB, DMG, and MM)
The dangers of misguided and self-aggrandizing executives serving the shareholders at the expense of the consumers.
The cheapening and ruination of yet another IP/product.
*CHA'ALT* Back the gonzo kickstarter... Primordial Chaos!
Support DCC, OSR, ORC.
I say support yourself and make a Boardgame.
Rake in money😮
The spell thing is not true . WoTC already said you would be able to get your 2014 material without homebrew .
WotC is making it easier for me to switch to Pathfinder every couple of weeks.
Only thing I like is giving me motiavation to beat all the other TTRPG stuff aince the bar is so low lol
Ive moved to Pathfinder since the OGL debacle. No regrets Pathfinder is more fun, the 3 action econamy is quite fun to use, and the creators just actually care about the player base
Why is the first thing a scandal? The product was not out yet and the individual probably posted something before the embargo was lifted. OR if the video was manually flagged, then the person running the social media portion of WOTC did not get the memo to let people do this.
At this point, I no don't care what Hasbro and WotC does with the game. It will no longer affect my game.
I have bought my last official 5E source book. I still have my Chessex map and markers. I still have my books and dice from the 80s.
And while the stupidity of the current decisions may kill the game we have all loved, they are not the only game in town.
I only mourn for the rising generation that will not have the experience we all had around the dinning room table.
If WOTC was smart they would add support for all the older editions of D&D, if they want the grognards to play with their website they need to put things on the website that entices the grognards to use it.
Im a paper guy myself i don't use dnd beyond unless i need to look up a spell or something of that nature.
Great video; you summed up the problem quite nicely. WOTC needs to pull their heads out of their butts. Don't piss off the fandom. REPEAT after me: Pathfinder.
For this reason, I buy physical books, and my players can choose character sheets or D&D beyond.
So is this a D&D channel or not? Now it’s just about bashing D&D because pathfinder doesn’t get enough clicks?
This used to be one of my favorite channels and you have great dm/gm device but now it doesn’t seem like there is any of that anymore and that’s too bad.
And before I am called a D&D fanboy I have play many system including pathfinder (which I love) and many many others. My problem is it seems it’s mostly about trashing D&D now not about GM advice.
I put out DM advice videos every single week. If this is the only video that made your feed, I'd blame YT, not me.
The TH-camr doesn't bash D&D. He bashes the corporate swine who own the IP. Big difference.
This is a hateclick channel. Just look at the last few video thumbnails.
@@realce666 Does it make you cry when people say mean things about the corporate penis you can't get out of your mouth?
@@theDMLair your first line. “You can’t make D&D scandal videos fast enough these days”
I was a huge fan of yours because you used to not do click bate type stuff and stay away from the twitter bs. But that’s what I guess what it becomes when your channel gets big enough.
Just wait until D&D Beyond doesn't support the 2014 rules any more.
Or when you use the new rules and a rules update trashes your character.
Caveat emptor (buyer beware)
I just don’t get why they can’t let us choose. I payed for all my books why am I not allowed to play how I want? I just wish there was an option to say: Class: Wizard (2014) or Wizard (2024)
You are totally allowed to play how you want, just not by using dndbeyond. Find alternatives - paper sheets or fillable pdf sheets, and look up the info in your PHB and other supplements.
Don't forget that Hasbro/WotC acquired the tool "dndbeyond" in 2022.
It sounds to me like wizards is attempting to cut their own throat.
And there are yet others who are perfectly happy with 1979 D&D.
Yup; Professor Dungeon Master already covered this on Dungeon Craft, but this take extends the reach of that message: Hasbro/WotC sucks, so go totally third party for 5e content or try practically anything else because those are now more viable options than ever before. MetaGrave nails it: "Better people making better content."
We've moved on to World of Darkness games and are playing Cyberpunk Red this weekend. WoTC will not get another dime from me.
This is why I'm skipping D&D 5.5 just like I skipped 4th edition, well and because I'm poor.
So last week news more click bait.
I'm making the move to Dungeon Crawl Classics
Preach it mister!
Days since last Hasbro/WotC scandal: 0.
I thought they had run out of feet to shoot themselves in.
The only thing Jordan is silent had to agree to was to not show images from inside the book. And he did a live stream page by page flip through showing all of it. I mean . . what did you expect to happen?
I honestly think we need to stop saying WOTC is making the decisions they're not its the hasbro execs calling all the shots if they say do this WOTC has NO choice but hasbro learned they can't beat us the community after the OGL incident so they backtracked it's HASBRO making all the mistakes and bad calls not WOTC and I think it's time we redirect appropriately.
This whole "scandal" is thrown so out of proportion. How many spells actually had any changes between versions? A dozen, two dozen - out of hundreds?! Everyone acts like the damn sky is falling every time WotC missteps. There are a dozen character builders, including pen and paper. Stop whining and stomping your feet like children every time something changes.
I guarantee I'm going to have confused players who are going to build characters with mixed content from all the choices because they'll have access to everything in the compendium on their character sheet. I had problems before, it'll only be worse now. I hope DDB has better tools to pick and choose now.
It is a pain feeling like I have to check every single character sheet for a stray spell, you know players will only pick what they think is the coolest. Players rarely put the work in to make sure they are choosing from the correct books - unless they have to actually use the books.
How does the bottom of a boot taste?
You have missed the point completely. They promised this new edition was, "100% backwards compatible." By removing content that is now a lie. Maybe the company that first tried to steal content from creators, hired the Pinkertons to attack/harass someone, and lies over and over again should be held accountable instead of blaming the consumers they are attempting to fleece.
@@seto_kaiba_ How does it feel to leave your emotional well being up to a corporation that doesn't care about you?
I run and play over a dozen different games professionally, including D&D. Yet I am not nearly as bothered by their decisions as so many others. The day they go too far I will simply stop spending money with them, like I've done with numerous other corporations that make f* up decisions (Amazon, Uber, etc).
The annoying thing is everywhere I go is some SCANDAL headline. The videos with Mike Shea and Treantmonk were way more normal and down to earth. Heck, this one is even a week late! I'm just plain tired of everyone giving WotC so much of their energy and me having to see the fake outrage everywhere I turn.
I saw a book the other day called D&D for Dummies...oh wait that was the 2024 Rule book.
This is why I don’t use beyond I only use roll 20 due to when I player can’t make it but can at home like during COVID that for maps with friends who use and was outvoted. My games are still analog because of the not needing internet for the games and I’m not buying digital books I trying to not using my computer all the time but I do get using these systems just not for very little thing.
You need to provide alternatives on how they can make money out of this game.
Not sure they can just keep adding adventures and monsters and sell those.
They would need to bring our new editions (or kinda new editions in this case).
The main issue is DnD and the lot of TTRPG can be played for cheap as do you need /their/ stuff to play?
Gw gets around it for having cool models and dominion over their players heads.
Dnd is a weak choas god who cant claim your soul 😂😂
dndbeyond subs, a VTT that's actually good, other stuff... (it's not my responsibility to be their business strategist)
Let's be honest. The 2024 books are *basically* just a homebrew version of 5e -- it's essentially no different than any other 3rd party riff on 5e, except it was made by WotC.
What I want: a book of classes and subclasses that includes everything from 2014, 2024, official expansions, along with some (paid) collab from high-profile 3rd party creators (a couple new classes and a decent-sized handful of subclasses). Those are the options I personally enjoy, and having all that stuff in one place would be golden for me.
I feel I'd also pay good money for an easy-to-use simulator (Monte Carlo style) for building combat encounters. One that would integrate with a party in a ddb campaign. Let me choose the party, choose a 'remaining resource level' (full, high, med, low, tapped-out), choose monsters, and then have a simulation run it 5000 times. Then give me some quick stats about the results. Others have done it somewhat jankily, but it's a hole that's begging to be filled to make DM'ing easier.
@@this_epic_name Only bad thing is, Witches of the Coast got that GW sickness.
Complete dominace of the market but dont crave the money hard enough to do that.
I think it would be better off to pay a coding team to make that. Doe sound idea.
@@Pobafett no one has a problem with them making a new edition the problem is them trying to stop you from using a product you paid for.
If Toyota wants to make new trucks more power to them but they can’t send a guy to blow up my old truck just because I’m still driving it
Understanding the product is a bit important. It has never been meant to be milked, it is meant to simply ride the wave that the customers generate on their own. It is kind of like buying a set of knives for your kitchen..the game system and supplements are tools. To miss that point and try applying micro-transactions and subscriptions, clearly shows they the executives and shareholders have no regard for the consumers.
Wasn't this issue one of those in which they backed off thanks to the voice of the community?
I love ALL the DM Lair videos!!!! ❤
D&D Beyond ownership.