Welcome home! Converted in 2019 here. Not sure what "flavor" of protestantism you're coming from. But, if I have any advise, it is to avoid the sedavecantists. I nearly fell pray almost immediately after my conversion because I was still viewing things from a legalistic protestant viewpoint. Trust the Magisterium is as unshakable as Jesus promised it would be, and you will be fine! Cristo Rey!
Right there with you, my sis or bro. I was born again evangelical and I'll always love my roots, but I really want to become a saint. It's not silly to me, but a very dear desire.
This has been great! I’ve struggled with always wanting to feel God’s presence in prayer and this really helps in understanding why it’s not about that. Thank you so much for this episode!!!
I’m not catholic but I’m greatly influenced by Catholics and I believe in the purpose of the Catholic Church so I will defend my affinity with Catholicism when asked about it because I’ve seen more good come from the church than not. Thanks Cam! Maybe one day that will be the course for me in my walk with Jesus.
My oh my! Just when I thought my guardian angel was frustrated with guiding me through my own struggle with my ADD-type prayer life. Thank you very much, Cameron and Matthew.
@@paultrosclair1775the Crusades were a series of military campaigns that aimed to free Eastern Christians from Muslim rule. There have actually been several different inquisitions. The first was established in 1184 in southern France as a response to the Catharist heresy. This was known as the Medieval Inquisition, and it was phased out as Catharism disappeared. Quite separate was the Roman Inquisition, begun in 1542. It was the least active and most benign of the three variations. Separate again was the infamous Spanish Inquisition, started in 1478, a state institution used to identify conversos-Jews and Muslims who pretended to convert to Christianity for political or social advantage and secretly practiced their former religion. More importantly, its job was also to clear the good names of many people who were falsely accused of being heretics. It was the Spanish Inquisition that, at least in the popular imagination, had the worst record of fulfilling these duties.
Catholics are sinners? Guilty as charged. That at times people in positions of authority have used poor judgment? Ditto. That otherwise good Catholics, afire with zeal, sometimes lose their balance? All true, but such charges could be made even if the Inquisition had never existed and perhaps could be made of some Fundamentalists. Fundamentalist writers claim the existence of the Inquisition proves the Catholic Church could not be the Church founded by our Lord. At first blush it might seem so, but most people see at once that the argument is weak. One reason Fundamentalists talk about the Inquisition is that they imagine it was established to eliminate the Fundamentalists themselves@@paultrosclair1775
@@paultrosclair1775Fundamentalist writers take one point-that Catharists used a vernacular version of the Bible-and conclude from it that these people were “Bible Christians.” In fact, theirs was a curious religion that apparently came to France from what is now Bulgaria. Catharism was a blend of Gnosticism, which claimed to have access to a secret source of religious knowledge, and of Manichaeism, which said matter is evil. The Catharists believed in two gods: the “good” God of the New Testament, who sent Jesus to save our souls from being trapped in matter; and the “evil” God of the Old Testament, who created the material world in the first place. The Catharists’ beliefs entailed serious-truly civilization-destroying-social consequences. Marriage was scorned because it legitimized sexual relations, which Catharists identified as the Original Sin. But fornication was permitted because it was temporary, secret, and was not generally approved of; while marriage was permanent, open, and publicly sanctioned. In addition, ritualistic suicide was encouraged, and Catharists refused to take oaths, which, in a feudal society, meant they opposed all governmental authority. Thus, Catharism was both a moral and a political danger. Even Lea, so strongly opposed to the Catholic Church, admitted: “Had Catharism become dominant, or even had it been allowed to exist on equal terms, its influence could not have failed to become disastrous.” Whatever else might be said about Catharism, it was certainly not the same as modern Fundamentalism.
I’m in RCIA right now, kinda in secret because my Protestant fellows will spit fire, but I’m finally doing it, solo, it’s been a long time coming, been strong Protestant for 35 years. Peace ❤ No arguments, just an awakening, fulfillment of what has been . Nothing happens in the Mass by accident, biblical. Reverence, structure, beauty. Love our Holy Triune God
Wow I love the terms Purgative, Illuminative, and Unitive ways 16:23 I can actually reflect on what state of where I am in my journey to sainthood. ❤❤❤
Awesome interview! Matt is a good friend. I always appreciate his wisdom. If you can, sign up for his Science of the Saints courses! Cameron, thanks for having him on.
Hi Cameron, just wanted to say thanks for such an awesome video, I am a prospective Deacon in my early stages of study. Pray for me ! I found this video awesome ! I am also a convert to the Catholic faith and I just wanted to say I think you have made the right decision not turning your channel into an only Catholic focused channel. Reaching all people and having mixed content is awesome! Keep up the good work! Praying for you and family. Amen 🙏
May God bless, protect and guide you always. Pray for the 7 gifts of the Holy Spirit because if you’re blessed with it, you have EVERYTHING and abundant fruits will come along 🙏
For those of you who this resonates with: this is very close to Carmelite spirituality. Look into St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Avila (and possibly look into becoming a secular Carmelite😊)
I can say I've gone through many parts of these stages of spiritual anxiety or lack of understanding what I was or wasn't feeling. This helped me so much
Wowww I loved this interview, it gives me so many answers. This will be stored in my favourites and I will certainly watch it again and again. Thanks a lot for the work that you do ❤
I wonder if this is a cycle that grows greater in intensity as you get deeper into the faith. I am a new Christian. Maybe three years of fully accepting Christ, and not yet baptized. Aiming to be so by Easter 2025 in the Catholic Church. I have learnt so much recently and have recently given up some strong things for the lord. And I have felt like the dark night of the lord. Like I can't feel Jesus as strongly despite practising more intensely and having more understanding.
Oh I definitely believe once you start receiving the sacraments, your life will change! Baptism is what makes us adopted children of God, it is the gateway to the rest of the sanctifying graces of the sacraments. Welcome home!
You knock it out of the park again Cameron. Just a masterpiece of interview, this is must watch. I've been wondering about my own spiritual life all this time and this answers a lot of my questions especially when I feel particularly "dry" in my spirituality. And I love the balance of your channel by keeping the Catholic contents up, I hope you keep doing this. Ignore the naysayers Cameron, you've been a wonderful blessing in doing God's work for us.
I learned zazen (silent meditation) about 10 years ago and have been doing it every day for 2x20 minutes a day, each morning and evening. But since more than a year I read scripture (10 minutes) and pray the Jesus prayer (known from Orthodoxy also 10 minutes) during this time, kind of like what Matthew Leonard describes toward the end of the video.
Great video. "Where the Bishop appears there let the people be... just as where JESUS CHRIST IS there is THE CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC CHURCH " St.Ignatius of Antioch 107 AD. God bless you both. 🔑⛪️🍷🍞📖📿🙌🏻🕊
There is no teaching in the New Testament that we are given the idea that the wine and bread actually transforms miraculously into blood and flesh. These are symbols. John 6 does not describe actual eating of flesh and drinking blood. It is spiritually confusing Christ if we are followers. At the last supper, wine and bread did not convert to blood and flesh. The distinction between actual physical and spiritual is clear. Just like Jesus is the living water, and our thirst will never quench. There is no actual water and nothing turns into actual water. it is an analogy.
@@ST-ov8cmThe Jewish religious leaders had inherited authority from God passed down through the generations, yet they were capable of acting contrary to God's will and being involved in the death of Jesus. Apostolic succession is also inherited authority, doesn't ensure someone is acting according to God's will and being guided by the spirit.
Hey Cameron this is unrelated to this video but I know you were interested in universalism when you used to have Andrew heronich and others on your show, but I’m sure your now uncertain of that perspective since becoming Catholic. I recommend getting Dr. Jordan Daniel Wood on who is a genius Catholic theologian and universalist. Can someone please get this message to Cameron so he can see it.
Maybe for early Apostles the eucharist might have been a way of remembering the period of time that Jesus became human, his sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins, and acceptance of taking up the cross as a follower of Jesus. But only guessing.
Saint Paul says that “suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope and hope does not disappoint us, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit which has been given to us.” (Romans 5: 3-5)
This is a misunderstanding of Saint vs saint. Saint means a person who has lived a life of holiness in accordance with God's grace, and died in a state of grace with no attachment to sin so they can be in Heaven, or who has died imperfectly but was purified and then entered Heaven. The lowercase saint simply means we're Christians.
'No attachment to sin' ...really ... you think any man or woman can know the true state of the heart and mind of another man or woman .. the correct answer is 'no' ... and there is only one definition of 'saint' in the new testament ... those sanctified by the blood of Jesus ... that thing invented in the 10th century has no real authority
@@malcolmlayton2050 No attachment to sins simply means a person doesn't have any habits or desires towards sinning. This is absolutely something a person can know. Is there something you're struggling with that is venially or mortally sinful? Well then you know the "state of your heart", don't you? Where are you getting this idea that I'm talking about knowing other people's states of grace from?
Last time I looked people don't make themselves saints ... other do ... years after their deaths ... the people deciding have no idea about the state of another persons heart or what they did in secret ...
I thought being Mormon was being truly holy.... Why isn't this the case? Maybe be Jehovah Witness? Is that truly holy too? Oh! Presbyterian USA! Someone help me out. Which one is holy and why? If I follow the non-holy ones, do I perish?
St. Ignatius Of Antioch A.D. 110 See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is administered either by the bishop or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there, let the multitude of the people also be; even as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. (Letter to the Smyrnaeans, Chapter 8)
yes, you need to follow the Catholic Church, there is no guarantee of salvation outside of the Catholic Church. You have an inquisitive mind, you want to know the truth, you'll find there and reasons to believe in them.
23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: 24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. 27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
We are earnin' our way We are earnin' our way We are earnin' our way up to God Do we believe that? No, no, no But the Protestants tell us so That we're earnin' our way up to God They don't need the Papal perks since they have a faith dead without works, A faith without charity or hope They say we're earnin' our way We don't, but that's what they say But I think that they just don't like the Pope
Sainthood.. perfect human beings. So, it isnt just Jesus then? Reminds me of Charles Spurgeon who, upon hearing a man preach on sinless perfection, and then claimed to have reached this state, poured a jug of milk over the ministers head at breakfast rhe next morning.. apparently his sinless perfection ended there and then. Our society is full to the brim with people who think they are good. Self-righteous. And now we have Christians who think rhey can do likewise. Amazing.
Just Jesus? What does that even mean? Jesus came to save us and make us perfect. That’s literally the entire point of Christianity. Do you think we’re supposed to just stay sinners?
@AnthonyBruns We are the redeemed and righteous in Christ. From the moment we are saved. As they say, we are saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved. If you think for one minute that you can be made perfect this side of the grave, you are deluded. You probably do not realise just how wretched we are. We are like the woman caught in adultery. We are like "Joshua was standing before the angel, clothed with filthy garments" (Zechariah 3.3) - filth; excrement. That is what our sin is like. If you ever reach sinless perfection, ask someone to pour a jug of milk over your head one breakfast...
We aren't talking about absolute perfection on this side of the grave. Saints, by the Catholic definition, are those who've made it to Heaven. Our brothers and sisters who have gone before us into the very Presence of God are truly saints. I personally don't think that we can achieve perfection on this side of the grave, but by walking closely with Christ, we can get much closer to perfection than we would if we just did the bare minimum.
It's strange that we talk if protestant to catholic None is on the bible whatever it stands for Did any die for you? Are we followers of any? We read and follow what the Gospel teaches which is based on the Law ,psalms and prophets. Jesus is very clear Gospel of the kingdom will be preached into the whole world as a testimony.not catholicism or protestantism. Jesus said you must be born again of the Spirit if you are to enter God's kingdom. Jesus said go make disciples of all nations and teach them to obey what I have instructed you. If you love me keep my instructions Greater love has no man than this that aan laid down his life for others. Jesus said if you continue in my words then you are my disciples indeed then you shall know the truth and the truth will set you free. Jesus said iny father's house there are many rooms and I go to prepare a place for you there Jesus said my brother and my sister are those who hear God's word and keep it Jesus said I am the ight of the world If you would love me deny yourself take up your cross and follow me. On that day many will say ....then I will say to them I was hungry I was thirsty I was naked I was sick I was in prison Whatever you did to these..... you did to me. I can go on and on but all we see is everything revolves around the one who gave himself as a ransom. What he told us to obey. Baptism in water Lord's supper These are his commands Live one another. So I don't know where we read of being Catholics or protestant as heving to do with God's kingdom?
If you do not know where you will go if you died right now then you deny CHRIST because you deny what HE said as follows: John 3:14 KJV "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the SON OF MAN (CHRIST) be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believes in HIM should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For GOD so loved the world, that HE gave HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, that whosoever believes in HIM should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For GOD sent not HIS SON into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through HIM might be saved. 18 He that believes on HIM is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the NAME of the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD." 36 He that believes on the SON has everlasting life: and he that believes not the SON shall not see life; but the wrath of GOD abides on him. Note: A true believer is saved from hell, has eternal everlasing life, and is not condemned because CHRIST paid the penalty for sin which is death for us in our place. CHRIST said repent and believe this good news Mark 1:15 KJV.
Catholicism is riddled with unbiblical teachings that are actually rather easy to refute. When you realize that the Apostles are the earliest “church fathers” and that Jesus is the head of the church, and that their teachings refute the false teachings of the later “church fathers”, “saints”, and “popes” that Catholicism still holds too, it becomes easy to see how far it is from actual Christianity. “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17). Scripture is sufficient for training in every good work.
Here's a quick response to this from Catholic Answers. Worth chewing on. “All scripture (Greek, pasa graphē) is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work” (2 Tim. 3:16-17).” There are multiple problems with your challenge. First, pasa graphē ordinarily would be translated “every scripture” (pasa generally means “every” rather than “all” before a singular noun like graphē). “Every scripture” would be a reference to each individual book of Scripture. Further, in the Bible the word “scripture” (singular) refers to an individual book or passage. The inspired books as a whole are “the scriptures” (plural), not “scripture.” But Paul couldn’t mean each individual book is sufficient for doctrine. Otherwise, you could do theology by “Genesis alone,” “Isaiah alone,” and so forth. Second, Paul says the books are useful toward certain goals, including teaching. But being useful merely means that something makes a contribution-not that it is uniquely and exclusively sufficient. Third, although the scriptures contribute to the goal of making the man of God “complete, equipped for every good work,” they aren’t the only things he needs. He also needs holiness, the charisms of the Holy Spirit, the correct understanding of the texts, and so on. The texts are not sufficient by themselves. Fourth, sola scriptura would only have been applicable after the apostles’ deaths (see Day 5), but Paul is not telling Timothy something new and meant to apply only after his death. He is saying something that was true then and had been true all along. He articulates this principle immediately after reminding Timothy that he had known the sacred scriptures (plural) from his youth (v. 15). This referred to the Old Testament, and Paul’s principle was true when only the Old Testament existed, before any New Testament books were written. Christians living before any New Testament book was penned were still obliged to accept the elements of the Christian faith not found in the Old Testament. They didn’t only become obligatory upon being written (2 Tim. 2:15). It is likely 2 Timothy was not the last New Testament book written, yet Paul expected Timothy to apply the principle immediately-not wait until after Paul and all the other apostles were dead. From: www.catholic.com/audio/ddp/sola-scriptura-and-2-timothy-316-17
When do you think the Church Fathers deviated from the original teaching? give me a rough year estimate. Be careful though because the earlier you place the Apostacy the more trouble you are going to have defending teachings like the Trinity.
He would say, “What’s wrong with you? Didn’t you hear me say that it’s the bread that becomes my body and the wine which becomes my blood? Pay attention !”
when Jesus talked about if you dont eat my body & drink my blood he didnt talk about actually eating his physical body of course im sure you get that,he only talked about his spirit & soul ,if you dont have his spirit your just nothing, dosent matter if your christian or catholic
Man, we have enough Catholic vs Protestant channels, not you too. I completely respect your choice to become Catholic yourself but I thought this channel was dedicated to defending a sort of mere Christianity against atheism and other religions. I hope this doesn’t become a theme in the future. I don’t even have a problem with you interviewing predominantly Catholic theologians and philosophers so long as you stick to things all orthodox Christians have in common. Obviously you can do as you choose but this is just my 2 cents.
He changed his views and moved away from Protestant beliefs. Why would he keep his channel exactly the same. Doesn’t make sense. Protestants are our disconnected brothers and sisters but we share barely anything in common with them in terms of teachings, church, worship, authority, scriptural interpretion, salvation, baptism, communion. We don’t even have the same Old Testament canon. Hard to talk about what we have in common while having anything interesting to talk about at podcast length
@@Pentecost-q5v well you must be new to his channel because he’s almost never talked about any of that stuff from either side of the isle. His channel is dedicated to “capturing the intellectual side of Christianity” which has been focused on showing that believing in mere Christianity is rational. The historic theistic arguments are what he has made his channel on and those pertain to Protestants, EO, and Catholicism.
Disappointing discussion. I went the other way (catholic to protestant), and this discussion did not provide any compelling reasons for choosing catholicism other than perceived "structure". This guy had a chaotic upbringing in his faith and went to what he thought would get him more "rooted" in Christian traditions. I appreciate that at least he wants to seek Christ, but there is plenty about catholicism to take issue with. The framing of the conversation about sainthood and holiness is incorrect in the beginning because biblical "sainthood" does not resemble what catholics believe. Paul's letters are adressed to the "saints", but they definitely didn't become canonized and have performed a public miracle in the catholic criteria. Catholic "Transubstantiation" in the eucharist is part of a ritual (the mass) that makes a mockery of Christ's grace by requiring the parishioners to continually seek his bodily sacrifice as their "grace" wears off every week and completely against what is written in galatians and hebrews for example. They commit idolatry by ascribing Mary with omniscience, omnipresence, and omnipotence when you pray to her and she grants wishes. The complete heresies declared by the pope in favor of secular culture undermine his authority, and the concept of men (who have demonstrated being far from holy) operating vicariously for christ is completely erroneous. Their claims of authority through Peter are dubious, and even the requirement of celibacy of priests doesn't make sense in what Paul wrote about the requirements of church elders. I think Cameron's inclination for philosophy allowed him to "think" his way into a system that is hard to justify in scripture but tradition makes it more attractive. I pray that he and others who look for answers in the catholic church see it objectively for what it is and seek christ above all without getting lost in the search for a perfect denomination.
my biggest problem with catholicism is that it seems like it's getting called out in Daniel 7. I bet the pharisees and sagisess thought they were right too
They added additional works of the Mosaic Law to make the people work harder for things THEY thought that matter, not God, and didn't even hold themselves up to those standards. We know this because Jesus calls them out for it. That doesn't mean they didn't have authority ( we know they did by the Chair of Moses ). The Church today us guided directly by God via the Holy Spirit, and when speaking on matters of faith and morals from the Chair of St. Peter (instead of Moses) the Church has the authority we see given to Peter (and his successors) by Jesus directly. This is the same manner of which the Scriptures were protected from error by fallible men, so to is the Church protected from error in rare occurrences when speaking Ex Cathedra on matters of faith and morals, typically via Ecumenical Councils.
Have you ever considered that you're wrong ? I mean, imagine all the saints, the martyrs, the church fathers, the church doctors, among them brilliant minds recognized as such even outside of religious circus like St Aquinas. I would never assume I read a bible verse that they weren't aware.
Of course i could be wrong, but i see too many parrales with the pharisees. And the no icons thing when we have the shroud of turin seems odd. the whole no salvation outside of the church is whack too, theres nothing in there about popes, and the amount of fragmenting this has caused seems to be not gods plan, but someone elses. Jesus preached to jews and gentiles alike, and he didnt say you have to follow all of x x x and x traditionsof the pharisees, so why do we have to follow x x x x and x traditions of the catholic church?
Not a good start .. eart my flesh, drink my blood.. completely metaphorical. Those who kill, we say their hands are stained with blood, even though nearly always this is not literally true. Drinking blood and eating flesh are metaphors regarding our involvement in the death of someone. You may have a hand in it, you were complicit, but didnt actually kill the person.. you may not have done the deed or were even complicit, but you benefitted by the victims death.. this is what it means to drink his blood.. eat his flesh.. We are complicit even if we didnt drive in the nails.. our sin is the reason Jesus had to die. We do benefit.. his death brings us eternal life.
Why would some of his followers leave after he said that if it were metaphorical? And why didn´t Jesus stop them from leaving if it were metaphorical? Maybe beacause he meant it litarally
@leonardgrimstad6078 The context is the true nature of Jesus. He had fed thousands miraculously. Walked on water as only God can do. Jesus proclaims to them that he is the better bread. The better manna. Sent from heaven. These same people began to dispute with Jesus. They did not recognise who he truly was. The living bread is Jesus. Bread that gives eternal life. They asked for this bread because they were thinking of their bellies and not God. This bread is his flesh. His body that will be given for the sins of the world. His death on the cross. Our sins putting him there. They weren't true disciples the ones who left. Jesus knew that before they went. The apostles and the true disciples of Jesus didn't leave even if they didn't fully understand because of what they had witnessed in the life, teaching and the countless supernatural miracles of Jesus. Why would you walk away? Because one teaching is hard? Why not hang around and find out the answer? They left because they weren't truly his. His flesh is his sacrifice. We are responsible for putting him there, and we who believe benefit by it.
@Jk-ow8ny it was a hard saying.. it was hard for them to understand. When we read the gospels it is striking how the disciples continually failed to understand the nature and mission of Jesus. They were looking for a redeemer king, one who would free them from the tyranny of Rome and restore Israel to her former glory. Jesus came first as the suffering servant. In Mark, Jesus heals a man partially and then fully. Jesus is revealed as the Christ but not the one Peter was expecting. He sees partly but after the cross and resurrection he will see fully. Hard to understand.. that characterised Jesus's mission. They were being asked to eat his flesh.. drink his blood.. they hadn't understood much up to this point but they should have known enough. Enough to know it was worth sticking around at least.
Repent and pray harder so the Holy Spirit may give you the 7 gifts of virtues among which are knowledge, wisdom, counsel which will help you know if someone or something is “deceived.”
I’m currently undergoing my conversion from Protestantism to Catholicism. This is great. More Catholic content por favor 👍🏻
Welcome home! Converted in 2019 here. Not sure what "flavor" of protestantism you're coming from. But, if I have any advise, it is to avoid the sedavecantists. I nearly fell pray almost immediately after my conversion because I was still viewing things from a legalistic protestant viewpoint. Trust the Magisterium is as unshakable as Jesus promised it would be, and you will be fine! Cristo Rey!
Right there with you, my sis or bro. I was born again evangelical and I'll always love my roots, but I really want to become a saint. It's not silly to me, but a very dear desire.
You are not converting. You belong to Jesus. You are coming into communion with His church. Welcome home.
Agreed ❤
This has been great! I’ve struggled with always wanting to feel God’s presence in prayer and this really helps in understanding why it’s not about that. Thank you so much for this episode!!!
I’m not catholic but I’m greatly influenced by Catholics and I believe in the purpose of the Catholic Church so I will defend my affinity with Catholicism when asked about it because I’ve seen more good come from the church than not. Thanks Cam! Maybe one day that will be the course for me in my walk with Jesus.
My oh my! Just when I thought my guardian angel was frustrated with guiding me through my own struggle with my ADD-type prayer life. Thank you very much, Cameron and Matthew.
More content like this, Cam!! ♥ Bring more conversions in!
Agreed ❤
All will eventually be Catholic as it’s the fullness of the truth 💕🙏💕
So please explain how the crusades and the inquisition were "the truth".
It’s full of something!
@@paultrosclair1775the Crusades were a series of military campaigns that aimed to free Eastern Christians from Muslim rule.
There have actually been several different inquisitions. The first was established in 1184 in southern France as a response to the Catharist heresy. This was known as the Medieval Inquisition, and it was phased out as Catharism disappeared.
Quite separate was the Roman Inquisition, begun in 1542. It was the least active and most benign of the three variations.
Separate again was the infamous Spanish Inquisition, started in 1478, a state institution used to identify conversos-Jews and Muslims who pretended to convert to Christianity for political or social advantage and secretly practiced their former religion. More importantly, its job was also to clear the good names of many people who were falsely accused of being heretics. It was the Spanish Inquisition that, at least in the popular imagination, had the worst record of fulfilling these duties.
Catholics are sinners? Guilty as charged. That at times people in positions of authority have used poor judgment? Ditto. That otherwise good Catholics, afire with zeal, sometimes lose their balance? All true, but such charges could be made even if the Inquisition had never existed and perhaps could be made of some Fundamentalists.
Fundamentalist writers claim the existence of the Inquisition proves the Catholic Church could not be the Church founded by our Lord. At first blush it might seem so, but most people see at once that the argument is weak. One reason Fundamentalists talk about the Inquisition is that they imagine it was established to eliminate the Fundamentalists themselves@@paultrosclair1775
@@paultrosclair1775Fundamentalist writers take one point-that Catharists used a vernacular version of the Bible-and conclude from it that these people were “Bible Christians.” In fact, theirs was a curious religion that apparently came to France from what is now Bulgaria. Catharism was a blend of Gnosticism, which claimed to have access to a secret source of religious knowledge, and of Manichaeism, which said matter is evil. The Catharists believed in two gods: the “good” God of the New Testament, who sent Jesus to save our souls from being trapped in matter; and the “evil” God of the Old Testament, who created the material world in the first place.
The Catharists’ beliefs entailed serious-truly civilization-destroying-social consequences. Marriage was scorned because it legitimized sexual relations, which Catharists identified as the Original Sin. But fornication was permitted because it was temporary, secret, and was not generally approved of; while marriage was permanent, open, and publicly sanctioned. In addition, ritualistic suicide was encouraged, and Catharists refused to take oaths, which, in a feudal society, meant they opposed all governmental authority. Thus, Catharism was both a moral and a political danger.
Even Lea, so strongly opposed to the Catholic Church, admitted: “Had Catharism become dominant, or even had it been allowed to exist on equal terms, its influence could not have failed to become disastrous.” Whatever else might be said about Catharism, it was certainly not the same as modern Fundamentalism.
I’m in RCIA right now, kinda in secret because my Protestant fellows will spit fire, but I’m finally doing it, solo, it’s been a long time coming, been strong Protestant for 35 years. Peace ❤ No arguments, just an awakening, fulfillment of what has been . Nothing happens in the Mass by accident, biblical. Reverence, structure, beauty. Love our Holy Triune God
Wow.. what an interview. Excellent topic for our time. We need the silence with the Lord. Thanks Cameron and Matthew.
God bless you, Cam. I really love your channel. Keep it up!
Excellent video. I’m on this same journey
Wow I love the terms Purgative, Illuminative, and Unitive ways 16:23
I can actually reflect on what state of where I am in my journey to sainthood. ❤❤❤
Oh Yay Matthew Leonard awesome 🎉
Awesome interview! Matt is a good friend. I always appreciate his wisdom. If you can, sign up for his Science of the Saints courses! Cameron, thanks for having him on.
Hi Cameron, just wanted to say thanks for such an awesome video, I am a prospective Deacon in my early stages of study. Pray for me ! I found this video awesome ! I am also a convert to the Catholic faith and I just wanted to say I think you have made the right decision not turning your channel into an only Catholic focused channel. Reaching all people and having mixed content is awesome! Keep up the good work! Praying for you and family.
Amen 🙏
May God bless, protect and guide you always. Pray for the 7 gifts of the Holy Spirit because if you’re blessed with it, you have EVERYTHING and abundant fruits will come along 🙏
I love this! God bless you and Matthew 🙏
For those of you who this resonates with: this is very close to Carmelite spirituality.
Look into St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Avila (and possibly look into becoming a secular Carmelite😊)
My prayer life got crazy after running into these two great saints! They taught me so much. 🙂
THIS is the content I come to this channel for!!! Thank you, and well done!
Wow!❤🙏 New subscriber here. I need to hear spiritual stuffs like this. Thanks for this video.
Such great advice in this video! Hearing practical advice on growing closer to God is so helpful!!
I can say I've gone through many parts of these stages of spiritual anxiety or lack of understanding what I was or wasn't feeling. This helped me so much
Wowww I loved this interview, it gives me so many answers. This will be stored in my favourites and I will certainly watch it again and again. Thanks a lot for the work that you do ❤
Great interview. Thank you. Putting God first and growing in holiness and love for God and others needs to be our priority above all else.
I wonder if this is a cycle that grows greater in intensity as you get deeper into the faith. I am a new Christian. Maybe three years of fully accepting Christ, and not yet baptized. Aiming to be so by Easter 2025 in the Catholic Church. I have learnt so much recently and have recently given up some strong things for the lord. And I have felt like the dark night of the lord. Like I can't feel Jesus as strongly despite practising more intensely and having more understanding.
Oh I definitely believe once you start receiving the sacraments, your life will change! Baptism is what makes us adopted children of God, it is the gateway to the rest of the sanctifying graces of the sacraments. Welcome home!
Thanks for that, both of you. I was blessed by this conversation today
You knock it out of the park again Cameron. Just a masterpiece of interview, this is must watch. I've been wondering about my own spiritual life all this time and this answers a lot of my questions especially when I feel particularly "dry" in my spirituality. And I love the balance of your channel by keeping the Catholic contents up, I hope you keep doing this. Ignore the naysayers Cameron, you've been a wonderful blessing in doing God's work for us.
Great conversation! Pax et Bene!
Looking forward to this video!
I learned zazen (silent meditation) about 10 years ago and have been doing it every day for 2x20 minutes a day, each morning and evening. But since more than a year I read scripture (10 minutes) and pray the Jesus prayer (known from Orthodoxy also 10 minutes) during this time, kind of like what Matthew Leonard describes toward the end of the video.
Great video. "Where the Bishop appears there let the people be... just as where JESUS CHRIST IS there is THE CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC CHURCH " St.Ignatius of Antioch 107 AD. God bless you both. 🔑⛪️🍷🍞📖📿🙌🏻🕊
So was Jesus in the crusades and the inquisition?
@paultrosclair1775 study the early church. Study the early Christians. Study the bible. It's not rocket science. God bless. 🙏🏻🍷🍞📖
This was awesome!
This is super important.
Thank you Brothers! This video was great! Really got me thinking about what I need to do to become more Holy!😊
What an amazing show! Thank you - I need put my prayer life 1st again 🙏🏻
I’m technically a Protestant but I appreciate the mystics. And hold to the same view on transubstantiation in the Eucharist ❤
There is no teaching in the New Testament that we are given the idea that the wine and bread actually transforms miraculously into blood and flesh. These are symbols. John 6 does not describe actual eating of flesh and drinking blood. It is spiritually confusing Christ if we are followers. At the last supper, wine and bread did not convert to blood and flesh. The distinction between actual physical and spiritual is clear. Just like Jesus is the living water, and our thirst will never quench. There is no actual water and nothing turns into actual water. it is an analogy.
@@danielkim672. Why do you suppose so many of Jesus’ followers left him at this teaching?
In your view must the Eucharistic prayer be said by a priest ordained through apostolic succession?
@@ST-ov8cmThe Jewish religious leaders had inherited authority from God passed down through the generations, yet they were capable of acting contrary to God's will and being involved in the death of Jesus. Apostolic succession is also inherited authority, doesn't ensure someone is acting according to God's will and being guided by the spirit.
@ Didn’t Christ guarantee that his Spirit would guide His Church?
He speaks like an evangelical
And?
@@StoaoftheSouth It's encouraging and relatable
To be a saint I think you first need to humble yourself, accept you are a sinner and that you need Jesus.
“I knew I was catholic when…..
I asked Chat Gpt if I should hinge my eternity on its answers on Catholicism”…..
V deep & insightful episode! Praise God, he is so articulate ❤🔥 thank you & God bless 🙏
Your discount code for the candle shop doesnt work my guy. Let me know when its fixed and ill buy some.
Hey Cameron this is unrelated to this video but I know you were interested in universalism when you used to have Andrew heronich and others on your show, but I’m sure your now uncertain of that perspective since becoming Catholic. I recommend getting Dr. Jordan Daniel Wood on who is a genius Catholic theologian and universalist. Can someone please get this message to Cameron so he can see it.
Maybe for early Apostles the eucharist might have been a way of remembering the period of time that Jesus became human, his sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins, and acceptance of taking up the cross as a follower of Jesus. But only guessing.
Isn't the Orthodox Monastic way to holiness, or the Franciscan path a more biblical way to Holiness ?
If God only allows evil that is soul building and leads to greater good, then that means we should venerate all suffering?
Saint Paul says that “suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope and hope does not disappoint us, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit which has been given to us.” (Romans 5: 3-5)
Second.
We don't become saints ... we are saints ... working out our salvation in fear and trembling
This is a misunderstanding of Saint vs saint. Saint means a person who has lived a life of holiness in accordance with God's grace, and died in a state of grace with no attachment to sin so they can be in Heaven, or who has died imperfectly but was purified and then entered Heaven. The lowercase saint simply means we're Christians.
'No attachment to sin' ...really ... you think any man or woman can know the true state of the heart and mind of another man or woman .. the correct answer is 'no' ... and there is only one definition of 'saint' in the new testament ... those sanctified by the blood of Jesus ... that thing invented in the 10th century has no real authority
we become saints, this idea that we're already saints is calvinism 101.
@@malcolmlayton2050 No attachment to sins simply means a person doesn't have any habits or desires towards sinning. This is absolutely something a person can know. Is there something you're struggling with that is venially or mortally sinful? Well then you know the "state of your heart", don't you? Where are you getting this idea that I'm talking about knowing other people's states of grace from?
Last time I looked people don't make themselves saints ... other do ... years after their deaths ... the people deciding have no idea about the state of another persons heart or what they did in secret ...
1
I thought being Mormon was being truly holy....
Why isn't this the case?
Maybe be Jehovah Witness? Is that truly holy too?
Oh! Presbyterian USA!
Someone help me out. Which one is holy and why? If I follow the non-holy ones, do I perish?
St. Ignatius Of Antioch A.D. 110
See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop.
Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is administered either by the bishop or by one to whom he has entrusted it.
Wherever the bishop shall appear, there, let the multitude of the people also be; even as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.
(Letter to the Smyrnaeans, Chapter 8)
yes, you need to follow the Catholic Church, there is no guarantee of salvation outside of the Catholic Church. You have an inquisitive mind, you want to know the truth, you'll find there and reasons to believe in them.
@@MarkStein-n3r How do I know I get salvation with the Catholic Church?
@@MegaTechno2000 Why should I trust these letters written by men?
@@malirk Never mind, I can see you are hostile and don't really want any help.
I think if you regard yourself as holy, you probably aren't😅
23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
Is capturing christianity catholic???
R u from 16th century heresy?
Yes
Yes
As a Catholic can you tell me what the Demands of the Gospel are?
Repent and believe the Gospel
@ Do we do that or does God do that?
@@Eric-nx2jzLol
@@Eric-nx2jz LoL
@@ezekielizuagie7496 why are you laughing? Its a serious question! Does God Repent us and give us Faith or do we do it in our own ability?
We are earnin' our way
We are earnin' our way
We are earnin' our way up to God
Do we believe that? No, no, no
But the Protestants tell us so
That we're earnin' our way up to God
They don't need the Papal perks
since they have a faith dead without works,
A faith without charity or hope
They say we're earnin' our way
We don't, but that's what they say
But I think that they just don't like the Pope
Sainthood.. perfect human beings. So, it isnt just Jesus then? Reminds me of Charles Spurgeon who, upon hearing a man preach on sinless perfection, and then claimed to have reached this state, poured a jug of milk over the ministers head at breakfast rhe next morning.. apparently his sinless perfection ended there and then.
Our society is full to the brim with people who think they are good. Self-righteous. And now we have Christians who think rhey can do likewise. Amazing.
Just Jesus? What does that even mean? Jesus came to save us and make us perfect. That’s literally the entire point of Christianity. Do you think we’re supposed to just stay sinners?
@AnthonyBruns We are the redeemed and righteous in Christ. From the moment we are saved. As they say, we are saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved.
If you think for one minute that you can be made perfect this side of the grave, you are deluded. You probably do not realise just how wretched we are.
We are like the woman caught in adultery. We are like "Joshua was standing before the angel, clothed with filthy garments" (Zechariah 3.3) - filth; excrement.
That is what our sin is like.
If you ever reach sinless perfection, ask someone to pour a jug of milk over your head one breakfast...
We aren't talking about absolute perfection on this side of the grave. Saints, by the Catholic definition, are those who've made it to Heaven. Our brothers and sisters who have gone before us into the very Presence of God are truly saints. I personally don't think that we can achieve perfection on this side of the grave, but by walking closely with Christ, we can get much closer to perfection than we would if we just did the bare minimum.
It's strange that we talk if protestant to catholic
None is on the bible whatever it stands for
Did any die for you?
Are we followers of any?
We read and follow what the Gospel teaches which is based on the Law ,psalms and prophets.
Jesus is very clear
Gospel of the kingdom will be preached into the whole world as a testimony.not catholicism or protestantism.
Jesus said you must be born again of the Spirit if you are to enter God's kingdom.
Jesus said go make disciples of all nations and teach them to obey what I have instructed you.
If you love me keep my instructions
Greater love has no man than this that aan laid down his life for others.
Jesus said if you continue in my words then you are my disciples indeed then you shall know the truth and the truth will set you free.
Jesus said iny father's house there are many rooms and I go to prepare a place for you there
Jesus said my brother and my sister are those who hear God's word and keep it
Jesus said I am the ight of the world
If you would love me deny yourself take up your cross and follow me.
On that day many will say ....then I will say to them
I was hungry
I was thirsty
I was naked
I was sick
I was in prison
Whatever you did to these..... you did to me.
I can go on and on but all we see is everything revolves around the one who gave himself as a ransom.
What he told us to obey.
Baptism in water
Lord's supper
These are his commands
Live one another.
So I don't know where we read of being Catholics or protestant as heving to do with God's kingdom?
If you do not know where you will go if you died right now then you deny CHRIST because you deny what HE said as follows:
John 3:14 KJV "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the SON OF MAN (CHRIST) be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believes in HIM should not perish but have eternal life.
16 For GOD so loved the world, that HE gave HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, that whosoever believes in HIM should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For GOD sent not HIS SON into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through HIM might be saved.
18 He that believes on HIM is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the NAME of the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD."
36 He that believes on the SON has everlasting life: and he that believes not the SON shall not see life; but the wrath of GOD abides on him.
Note: A true believer is saved from hell, has eternal everlasing life, and is not condemned because CHRIST paid the penalty for sin which is death for us in our place. CHRIST said repent and believe this good news Mark 1:15 KJV.
Catholicism is riddled with unbiblical teachings that are actually rather easy to refute. When you realize that the Apostles are the earliest “church fathers” and that Jesus is the head of the church, and that their teachings refute the false teachings of the later “church fathers”, “saints”, and “popes” that Catholicism still holds too, it becomes easy to see how far it is from actual Christianity.
“All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17).
Scripture is sufficient for training in every good work.
Anathema on you
Here's a quick response to this from Catholic Answers. Worth chewing on. “All scripture (Greek, pasa graphē) is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work” (2 Tim. 3:16-17).”
There are multiple problems with your challenge.
First, pasa graphē ordinarily would be translated “every scripture” (pasa generally means “every” rather than “all” before a singular noun like graphē). “Every scripture” would be a reference to each individual book of Scripture. Further, in the Bible the word “scripture” (singular) refers to an individual book or passage. The inspired books as a whole are “the scriptures” (plural), not “scripture.” But Paul couldn’t mean each individual book is sufficient for doctrine. Otherwise, you could do theology by “Genesis alone,” “Isaiah alone,” and so forth.
Second, Paul says the books are useful toward certain goals, including teaching. But being useful merely means that something makes a contribution-not that it is uniquely and exclusively sufficient.
Third, although the scriptures contribute to the goal of making the man of God “complete, equipped for every good work,” they aren’t the only things he needs. He also needs holiness, the charisms of the Holy Spirit, the correct understanding of the texts, and so on. The texts are not sufficient by themselves.
Fourth, sola scriptura would only have been applicable after the apostles’ deaths (see Day 5), but Paul is not telling Timothy something new and meant to apply only after his death. He is saying something that was true then and had been true all along. He articulates this principle immediately after reminding Timothy that he had known the sacred scriptures (plural) from his youth (v. 15). This referred to the Old Testament, and Paul’s principle was true when only the Old Testament existed, before any New Testament books were written.
Christians living before any New Testament book was penned were still obliged to accept the elements of the Christian faith not found in the Old Testament. They didn’t only become obligatory upon being written (2 Tim. 2:15).
It is likely 2 Timothy was not the last New Testament book written, yet Paul expected Timothy to apply the principle immediately-not wait until after Paul and all the other apostles were dead.
From: www.catholic.com/audio/ddp/sola-scriptura-and-2-timothy-316-17
When do you think the Church Fathers deviated from the original teaching? give me a rough year estimate. Be careful though because the earlier you place the Apostacy the more trouble you are going to have defending teachings like the Trinity.
@@YaldabaothGod7How is that gospel? Who are you to declare anathemas?
Who did you hear this from? Where did the Bible come from? How many Catholics have you discussed this with?
Viva Cristo Rey ! 🇻🇦✝️☦️
What would Jesus say if one of his disciples started biting him? Would he say maybe it wasn't literal?
He would say, “What’s wrong with you? Didn’t you hear me say that it’s the bread that becomes my body and the wine which becomes my blood? Pay attention !”
when Jesus talked about if you dont eat my body & drink my blood he didnt talk about actually eating his physical body of course im sure you get that,he only talked about his spirit & soul ,if you dont have his spirit your just nothing, dosent matter if your christian or catholic
Incorrect.
Man, we have enough Catholic vs Protestant channels, not you too. I completely respect your choice to become Catholic yourself but I thought this channel was dedicated to defending a sort of mere Christianity against atheism and other religions. I hope this doesn’t become a theme in the future. I don’t even have a problem with you interviewing predominantly Catholic theologians and philosophers so long as you stick to things all orthodox Christians have in common. Obviously you can do as you choose but this is just my 2 cents.
This is like his first time in a while since not doing mere christian apologetics
He changed his views and moved away from Protestant beliefs. Why would he keep his channel exactly the same. Doesn’t make sense. Protestants are our disconnected brothers and sisters but we share barely anything in common with them in terms of teachings, church, worship, authority, scriptural interpretion, salvation, baptism, communion. We don’t even have the same Old Testament canon. Hard to talk about what we have in common while having anything interesting to talk about at podcast length
@@samtomes7604 yes, I know. My comment was out of concern this becomes a theme.
@@Pentecost-q5v well you must be new to his channel because he’s almost never talked about any of that stuff from either side of the isle. His channel is dedicated to “capturing the intellectual side of Christianity” which has been focused on showing that believing in mere Christianity is rational. The historic theistic arguments are what he has made his channel on and those pertain to Protestants, EO, and Catholicism.
This was about prayer and growing in relationship with God, you missed the point, this is Christian, not Catholic vs Protestant.
Disappointing discussion. I went the other way (catholic to protestant), and this discussion did not provide any compelling reasons for choosing catholicism other than perceived "structure". This guy had a chaotic upbringing in his faith and went to what he thought would get him more "rooted" in Christian traditions. I appreciate that at least he wants to seek Christ, but there is plenty about catholicism to take issue with. The framing of the conversation about sainthood and holiness is incorrect in the beginning because biblical "sainthood" does not resemble what catholics believe. Paul's letters are adressed to the "saints", but they definitely didn't become canonized and have performed a public miracle in the catholic criteria. Catholic "Transubstantiation" in the eucharist is part of a ritual (the mass) that makes a mockery of Christ's grace by requiring the parishioners to continually seek his bodily sacrifice as their "grace" wears off every week and completely against what is written in galatians and hebrews for example. They commit idolatry by ascribing Mary with omniscience, omnipresence, and omnipotence when you pray to her and she grants wishes. The complete heresies declared by the pope in favor of secular culture undermine his authority, and the concept of men (who have demonstrated being far from holy) operating vicariously for christ is completely erroneous. Their claims of authority through Peter are dubious, and even the requirement of celibacy of priests doesn't make sense in what Paul wrote about the requirements of church elders. I think Cameron's inclination for philosophy allowed him to "think" his way into a system that is hard to justify in scripture but tradition makes it more attractive. I pray that he and others who look for answers in the catholic church see it objectively for what it is and seek christ above all without getting lost in the search for a perfect denomination.
my biggest problem with catholicism is that it seems like it's getting called out in Daniel 7.
I bet the pharisees and sagisess thought they were right too
They added additional works of the Mosaic Law to make the people work harder for things THEY thought that matter, not God, and didn't even hold themselves up to those standards. We know this because Jesus calls them out for it. That doesn't mean they didn't have authority ( we know they did by the Chair of Moses ). The Church today us guided directly by God via the Holy Spirit, and when speaking on matters of faith and morals from the Chair of St. Peter (instead of Moses) the Church has the authority we see given to Peter (and his successors) by Jesus directly. This is the same manner of which the Scriptures were protected from error by fallible men, so to is the Church protected from error in rare occurrences when speaking Ex Cathedra on matters of faith and morals, typically via Ecumenical Councils.
Have you ever considered that you're wrong ? I mean, imagine all the saints, the martyrs, the church fathers, the church doctors, among them brilliant minds recognized as such even outside of religious circus like St Aquinas. I would never assume I read a bible verse that they weren't aware.
Of course i could be wrong, but i see too many parrales with the pharisees. And the no icons thing when we have the shroud of turin seems odd.
the whole no salvation outside of the church is whack too, theres nothing in there about popes, and the amount of fragmenting this has caused seems to be not gods plan, but someone elses.
Jesus preached to jews and gentiles alike, and he didnt say you have to follow all of x x x and x traditionsof the pharisees, so why do we have to follow x x x x and x traditions of the catholic church?
Not a good start .. eart my flesh, drink my blood.. completely metaphorical. Those who kill, we say their hands are stained with blood, even though nearly always this is not literally true. Drinking blood and eating flesh are metaphors regarding our involvement in the death of someone. You may have a hand in it, you were complicit, but didnt actually kill the person.. you may not have done the deed or were even complicit, but you benefitted by the victims death.. this is what it means to drink his blood.. eat his flesh..
We are complicit even if we didnt drive in the nails.. our sin is the reason Jesus had to die.
We do benefit.. his death brings us eternal life.
Why would some of his followers leave after he said that if it were metaphorical? And why didn´t Jesus stop them from leaving if it were metaphorical? Maybe beacause he meant it litarally
Monstrous nonsense.
@leonardgrimstad6078 The context is the true nature of Jesus. He had fed thousands miraculously. Walked on water as only God can do.
Jesus proclaims to them that he is the better bread. The better manna. Sent from heaven.
These same people began to dispute with Jesus. They did not recognise who he truly was.
The living bread is Jesus. Bread that gives eternal life. They asked for this bread because they were thinking of their bellies and not God.
This bread is his flesh.
His body that will be given for the sins of the world.
His death on the cross.
Our sins putting him there.
They weren't true disciples the ones who left. Jesus knew that before they went. The apostles and the true disciples of Jesus didn't leave even if they didn't fully understand because of what they had witnessed in the life, teaching and the countless supernatural miracles of Jesus. Why would you walk away?
Because one teaching is hard?
Why not hang around and find out the answer?
They left because they weren't truly his.
His flesh is his sacrifice. We are responsible for putting him there, and we who believe benefit by it.
Why was it a harsh teaching then?
@Jk-ow8ny it was a hard saying.. it was hard for them to understand.
When we read the gospels it is striking how the disciples continually failed to understand the nature and mission of Jesus.
They were looking for a redeemer king, one who would free them from the tyranny of Rome and restore Israel to her former glory.
Jesus came first as the suffering servant.
In Mark, Jesus heals a man partially and then fully. Jesus is revealed as the Christ but not the one Peter was expecting. He sees partly but after the cross and resurrection he will see fully.
Hard to understand.. that characterised Jesus's mission.
They were being asked to eat his flesh.. drink his blood.. they hadn't understood much up to this point but they should have known enough. Enough to know it was worth sticking around at least.
Huge mistake. This man is deceived.
Repent and pray harder so the Holy Spirit may give you the 7 gifts of virtues among which are knowledge, wisdom, counsel which will help you know if someone or something is “deceived.”
Ya you better stop deceiving yourself that the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon!