Lithium "capacitor" in a disposable product
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 พ.ย. 2023
- Such an odd twist on these vapour producing devices. This is apparently the MKII version of this product, and probably the last here due to the imminent ban of disposable versions.
I'd like to thank James for sending a picture of the circuitry in one of these. It looked interesting enough that I bought two for us to explore.
The design seems to have been optimised for machine manufacture with much less wiring and a PCB that separates the pressure sensor and the control chip. Annoyingly the chip seems to be an economy version without the internal charging circuitry, as it would have made recharging it much easier with the two pin heater connector.
The lithium cell in a capacitor style package is a bit scary to remove from the PCB, as there is a lot of ground plane metal in the vicinity of the positive connection so shorting it out would be quite easy - with the usual freaky lithium cell results. I recommend running the cell down to 3V before attempting removal, as the biggest hazard will be the potential stored energy.
A hot air gun for carefully melting both solder pads at once might be a viable option.
Although marked as being 360mAh I have run a few charge/discharge cycles and both cells took a charge of approximately 280mAh, so the capacity will be slightly less. That kinda fits the size of the package with the space taken up by the rubber plug at the lead end. It's close to half the original cell capacity, meaning the device will last half as long! The rival "crystal" version still seems to be using a 500mAh cell for much better run time.
All the prominent manufacturers of these devices have known that a ban was inevitable, and have had pod based rechargeable versions available for a while. I'm not sure why the shops continue to push the non rechargeable versions. I guess the imminent ban will fix that issue, ironically taking up LESS space on their shelves! It will also unfortunately mean the end of the glorious street-lithium era where the technical geeks would swoop on these discarded devices to harvest their lithium cells for projects.
If you enjoy these videos you can help support the channel with a dollar for coffee, cookies and random gadgets for disassembly at:- www.bigclive.com/coffee.htm
This also keeps the channel independent of TH-cam's algorithm quirks, allowing it to be a bit more dangerous and naughty.
#ElectronicsCreators - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Looks like they're moving towards a design that is modular and simpler to reuse/recycle, as it won't be long until legislation starts to force these horrible devices from being so wasteful.
EU soon to mandate dismantable products that have batteries, must not be glued in. I think they are running ahead of that. Also easier for them to assemble and dissemble. Shows they see a future for these past the battery regulation which we had hoped would see the end of these.
No it is just that make which is rare in the Uk. I pick the others up, recharge, put some new juice in and just use my own casings. It costs me £5 to smoke a week. I use each one twice so get the flavour it come with. The coils start to fade after about 2 uses.
Here in the United States of Freedom, we are not free to purchase reusable pod models (such as Juul) that have flavors other than fake tobacco. So, we've been going backwards with no sign of change
yes, and they have also started to understand that they need to do this with cell phones like the old days, and i'm glad they are going this route because the built in battery nonsense is well, nonsense and produces way more E-waste and it's great that we can have a spare battery in our pockets again when our current phone battery runs out, that whole process was just so much better, you could always have one charging while you use the other.
Aren't there laws about recycling all rechargeable batteries in a lot of places now? Do they get around them by just saying it's not rechargeable since a connector isn't broken out to recharge it, or does the manufacturer put some fine print reminding the owner to recycle it and manage to wash their own hands of the whole thing?
I found an ancient, but still working disposable BLU e-cigarette in a box of junk a few months ago. Bought the tiniest air pump on Aliexpress, and now my rc lobster boat leaves a trail of delicious vanilla scented exhaust in it's wake.
Sweet! Now, get it to put out colored vapor and fish will be jumping to get on board!
genius
lol sadly if you did that for any extended length of time the thing will certainly be fried but that's hilarious.
@@putteslaintxtbks5166yeah it's not a thing that can be done unfortunately, they've already tried.
With nicotine lol (i think, do the blu ones have nicotine)
I try to salvage every cell out of these that i manage to find. It's ridiculous that they are disposable when we're struggling so hard to move towards a sustainable energy future!
greed knows no bounds. i bought my vape 9 years ago and only have upgraded the rdta. now they made them illegal and promote disposables instead because "they are leak proof". we are fucked.
What should be done with them? I have a bunch. Havent ever thrown any away. i feel bad for buying them in the first place. :S
@@Elleaf1 disassemble so the battery is separate. youre left with a battery and just plastic waste with minor metal parts.
+1, I don’t usually buy disposables but when I do I always take out the battery.. never know when it’ll be useful for a future micro project
@@Elleaf1 Most people suggest that you take them to your nearest recycling center, landfill, or transfer station and put them in the proper hazardous waste receptacle. That being said, I'm sure you could find an electronics hobbyist who will buy them from you, even more likely if you're willing to do the work of taking the batteries out yourself. They're great for little battery-powered projects, especially since many of them are now rechargeable meaning they come with all the charging circuitry included. The best thing you could do is stop buying disposables and use a real vape which is not only much cheaper for you in the long run, it's also much less wasteful than disposing of lithium cells that have only had a single charging cycle and still have the vast majority of their usable life ahead of them. Pod vapes are a happy medium between disposing of the disposable part and reusing the reusable part, but they're even more expensive than the usual disposables.
These manufacturers need to be held accountable. They mass produce these things, fully expecting them to end up in a landfill. This one in particular takes the cake. However, I've got a bunch of LED light bulbs that were designed to fail after so long. So much waste when it would cost a few cents to make things last and be useful for far longer. If I won the lottery I'd probably start a manufacturing business. Where I build and sell every day items meant to last decades. I'd change my factory to manufacturer different products as I destroy the planned obsolescence bushiness plan and market for each product I build. I'd call it my company BOCO, Buy once, cry once. And corporations around the world would plan my assassination.
"If you won the lottery" is perhaps more pertinent than you realize, because it wouldn't be "corporations" planning your assassination, it would be investors. Investors are expecting huge and constant short-term growth AND long-term stability or it's no deal. So if you tried to pitch a company with worse-than-average long-term prospects to investors you'd get no takers. It's not free enterprise that's killing us, as informed/regulated free enterprise is capable of self-correcting in a vacuum. It's the "capital" part of "capitalism" digging our grave.
The manufacturers are literally drug dealers. I'm not the slightest surprised.
Interesting. I had the same thoughts. I would start with inkjet printers and cartridges.
@@andrelange9877 Inkjet's a losing game. Get a laser and you're already where you want to be.
@@andrelange9877they are now selling printers with refillable tanks of ink, which are far more economical and less wasteful because you just buy the ink in bottles (though they don't tend to be that open about the formulation of the ink and the method for curing it, so the ability to shop around for suitable ink from other suppliers is limited. In theory the ink needs to remain liquid up until the point it hits the page, as otherwise it would clog up the nozzles and tubes. Similarly it needs to be able to remain emulsified for a long time without agitation, so the medium and solvent parts of the ink have to be specifically engineered and you can't just buy any conventional ink. I believe that a lot of them flash an intense uv light onto the ink before it comes out, with the bottles and the tank being shielded from that part of the light spectrum, but it could also be a number of other things including blasting it with a laser to heat it up to a specific temperature range like a laser printer/inkjet hybrid)
It's not perfect, but it's better than the cartridge printers (which now seem to require you to subscribe to an online service which deactivates your printer if your Internet connection goes down).
These have become a massive problem in the recycling industry, by finding their way into general waste. The company I work for 'Recycling Lives' had a massive fire last year, more than likely caused by one of these fuckers. Nearly destroyed the business.
they should have made then so the battery part can be removed and disposed in proper 'battery bins', and the rest in the 'normal'? recycling
@@andygozzo72 They know their customer. Imagine people disposing of cigarette butts in the proper fashion...I'll wait. It'll take regulation.
@@hrdcpyeven basic plastic packaging waste gets mixed so much its hard to recycle
I've seen several of these just tossed out the window while people are driving down the road.
In UK? I have been in UK as tourist this year, i have never seen so many laying around on city streets (london). Imo, they are in every EU country, but it was first time i have seen dozens every mile. Actually i bought two for ~4£ in my country but i open them, charge and refill. I smoke so little, that i have one for 6m, its perfect balance of strenght and price for me (almost free).
It’s just insane that they didn’t seem to do any cost optimization on this supposedly disposable stick. They used gold plated removable contacts, a refillable cartridge, an ASIC when they probably could have just used a few transistors, a lithium ion capacitor, a double sided FR4 PCB (rather than a single layer phenolic resin board which they could have used), and they didn’t allow it to be recharged. At least hobbyists can use these as a cheap or free source of lithium cells, but how much money is in this industry that they can just throw in somewhat unnecessarily costly materials (as opposed to the cheap construction of some other devices I’ve seen on the channel) into a supposedly disposable device.
They are probably going to offer a "recycle" program where you get 10% off the next one if you turn an old device in that they can recharge and refill to sell again. Otherwise there would be absolutely no point in the gold plating.
It's not a capacitor, it's a 13300 cell
I have a suspicion that these businesses are owned by big tobacco/ big pharma companies that would rather be selling cigarettes and ineffective cessation products. Govt. already want to ban ecigarette use entirely, they're not very likely to miss an opportunity to overreach if they ban these wasteful devices.
I wonder if the ASIC has any programming to "count" how long it's being used and shut off if it detected that it's being refilled and reused
It’s likely the cost of a one time use product is so similar to a rechargeable product that it is not worth manufacturing a different unit for one time use.
I noticed the battery has the cross on the top, same as a capacitor. That'll be where the flames shoot out when it's shorted. What fun. Interesting design.
You are not wrong 😅 that's also where they split open if they are crushed 😱
They are actually more fragile than the pouch batteries when it comes to crushed vapes 😉
Shame it's still disposable but what a wonderful piece of engineering regardless...
Absolutely marvelous! Simple and effective, with just a bit less waste as compared to before.
Shame that we're still gonna find them where they shouldn't be...
The reason why they are disposable is because of the way they are designed. The liquid is suspended in a sponge type material, and the liquid is less dense, providing a more enjoyable vape. The trouble is the 2.0ml limit in the UK means they don't last long, and it makes them more wasteful.
The ones with replaceable pods are more eco-friendly, but the pods don't work out much cheaper, and they still contain the plastic tank,, mouth piece, coil and the sponge thing 🤷
Very interesting. It's almost as if the designers were asked to see if they could get capacitors to power the things, then cheated when they found it wasn't practical yet.
Good scope for repurposing the battery, and the light guide could be useful too.
Caps don't have the capacity and everyone designing these knows it. But this formfactor is very useful for these because now they don't have to route one wire from the other end of the cylinder along the side squeezed between the battery cell and the casing. Probably much faster to assemble and that is important for a mass-produced item.
I doubt anyone would have seriously even tried, capacitors aren't even in the same continent of being capable of doing this job and there's really nothing on the horizon I know of that would let a capacitor of that size both do that job and hold a charge for months on the shelf. Probably just ease of manufacturing.
I wonder if it was to make it look less reusable for people who'd take it apart
@Captain_Irk definitely designed to discourage salvage/ reuse
It's far more likely that the manufacturer has capacitor packaging machines that are both paid for, and underutilized. Using them to package lithium cells is a clever way to keep the machine line profitable.
The chain of events that has led to every manual/through-hole solder point getting triple-marked on both sides must be interesting.
LOL, yeah!
Makes sense when things are packed so close together, makes it very unambiguous what's what
If the circuit board gets silk screened, extra indicators aren’t more expensive..? I curse every “hobbyist” board that doesn’t have pins labeled on both sides of the board…
I wonder if they learned from a fire or two from incorrect polarity. Notice only the power components are triple marked
@@youhackforme The power stuff is the only through-hole stuff and the heater element doesn't really have a polarity. Yes, they must have had a few spectacular incidents involving backwards batteries.
'My apologies if my voice cracks, ive just got a bug'.
No mate, you have just hit an elfbar. Elfbars are like the vaping equivalent of the woman who goes round the ashtrays in a pub taking dog ends, then when she has enough dog ends removing the filters and reforming them via rizla into something smokable.
I used to work at a battery recycling plant a few years ago and we came across those exact type of cells in a few difference products. Its just the form-factor, Its the same inside as any other 3.7v lithium ion battery.
I also found that many discarded evapes now contain pouch lipo cells with "500 mAh" capacity printed on them despite some cells being physically smaller than others. Turns out the larger cells indeed charge up to roughly 500 mAh, the smaller ones however only reach roughly 300-350 mAh are thus intentionally labelled wrong.
That's false advertising whether they are meant to be recharged or not.
@@LarixusSnydes Chinese literally don't care
@@fusseldiebThat may well be, but if they want to sell things abroad, they need to comply with local regulations.
@@LarixusSnydes Will probably not be needed, there is always one person who opts for the cheaper option.
That is how china grew in the first place and sort of ruined the whole european and I think american market with flooding the market with cheap products not built to last, destroying proper local companys with quality products.
If you really want to buy long-lasting quality products "Made in EU" or "Made in U.S." they cost an arm and a leg due to lower demand, and if they are in the shelf directly next to cheap Chinagarbage most customers will opt for the chinese crap. Even these who have the money to spend for a better product.
@@deineroehreAs an electronics hobbyist the main issues I run into when it comes to buying electronics parts is: A) a part I need for a project is not for sale in either the EU or the USA or B) I can buy exactly the same product ( made in China ) either directly from China or from an EU or American trader who 1) charge me 3 times the price, 2) have a high minimum amount of goods to buy before the P&P becomes manageable
Really interesting, but Mother Nature must be weeping over how wasteful these things are.
It came from nature, no problem putting it back.
We need more robust e-waste recycling infrastructure if we’re going to be consuming products like this as a society. After how big of a topic e-waste used to be, the turn toward mass disposable electronics like this and away from refillable vapes is a little baffling actually. Even the replaceable pods would be a better move.
@@illustriouschinuranium comes from nature, but you probably don't want to live next to Chernobyl.
@@illustriouschinsure - especially due to the upgrade it got 🤣
@@illustriouschinI’m not sure burying everything in a landfill is quite the same. Maybe after we’re gone and a couple million years passes all our waste will have gone back to nature before the next advanced civilization comes along.
Top notch explanation and video production as well. I think I speak for almost everyone saying we love how you present the photo image of the circuit board and draw a schematic. Thanks for the content!!
1. From what i know microphones ARE pressure sensors. Hardware wise they're the same, but if the signal is not captured "as audio" then it's not a "mic" in the usual sense.
2. it's nice they made the product more modular, but it really shows how much reusability they want out of it if the circuit does not allow recharging.
Love tuning into your channel from time to time. Always something cool to see.
Your first point is correct, mics take pressure gradients to move a diaphragm, and then couple the diaphragm to a system that outputs voltage. For example, dynamic mics have a coil (supplied by known current) attached to the diaphragm; as the diaphragm moves, the coil exerts a measurable induction onto a separate sensor, which translates the movement to a magnetic signal, then a voltage signal.
I'm not certain what kind of "mic" they have here, but instead of viewing the output signal as analog audio, they likely compare the voltage to a threshold that is broken when the mouthpiece is sucked on (negative pressure on that side).
You are correct, sound is nothing but air pressure.
All microphones are pressure sensors, but not all pressure sensors are microphones. These sensors in the disposable vapes have a switch contact attached to the underside of the diaphragm, the switch is closed when you aren't sucking, and opens when you are sucking. It can't measure any kind of in-between, all it does is open the switch when a certain pressure has been reached. They work almost identically to membrane keyboard switches, just with air pressure instead of keypresses.
@tissuepaper9962 I can't believe I watched the video, listened to him describe how the "mic" is a pressure-based switch, and still said I didn't know what kind of setup it was.
I guess I was pretty tired then. You are absolutely right, it's just on or off. It would certainly sound terrible as an audio signal though 🤣
I could see reusability, albeit somewhat "overkill", very useful trait: microchips are close enough in all kinds of products so could just take one from any broken device and put it to other device for repair... No idea what kind of "ideology" framework is needed for this to structure society also in practical terms more compatible with this but seems useful to reuse resources and materials and thus could even afford using higher grade components and a bit more expensive og products to begin with(aint apple products price higher coz people perceive higher resell/even used practical value for those vs same features non apple product).
That looks exactly like a common electret microphone capsule. A microphone is a type of pressure sensor after all.
These electrets don't go all the way to DC, but the low frequency response is extended enough to be used a pressure sensor in this application at least.
I thought so too. I wonder if this board has other uses
Clive I hate to say this but you are incorrect in assuming those pressure sensors are a diaphragm switch. They actually are electret mics but used in a different way! The conductive surface of the Mylar disc is on the opposite side from the body frame cylinder. So cannot operate as you suggest (a switch).
They have a continuous low energy AC oscillator signal applied to the mic insert. The capacitance change of the mic insert under vacuum suction is enough to be detected by the clever asic. Please investigate this (as I did) with your oscilloscope. You will see the continuous oscillation signal applied to the condenser mic! It is a capacitive sensor for certain. I can’t remember the oscillator frequency but it was fairly high iirc. I did grab a scope image but don’t have it to hand right now. Interesting about the fake capacitor. I’m sure it will have a standard Lion cell inside the cap case. Peter.
@@ThePrawlin I have personally destructively disassembled these little switches when I made a hobby of repairing Juul vapes. They are definitely just diaphragm switches. I don't know what product you got yours from, but it would simply be stupid to use an analog sensor where a simple switch will suffice. Maybe you found a premium product that modulates the power to the coil based on how hard you suck, which would explain the added complexity, but my experience is that most of these things are an on/off affair, nothing analog about them.
Thanks or the efforts Clive, even though you are not well, you are still providing the tech. Cheers.
Those with exchangeable pods are much better not only to the environment: they are actually helping manufacturers keep their users with their variant of the device.
And a side product of those who make these rechargeable units is a dedicated soldering iron power supply, which has a function of constant heating (instead of puff-on-demand in these devices).
I remember when EDC had a 'puff bar' tent in like 2018. There were thousands all over the ground, just at the festival. They did not have that tent the next year lol.
At other camping festivals, there were usually guys with cars full of thousands of these selling them all over the place.
These were all the non recharging ones that were just immediately disposable flat square sticks that looked exactly like juuls.
I have had one for a while now sitting in the collection of possible reclaimable cells but never got round to exploring yet pile. Thanks for saving me a job.. I also have a new device that uses a ceramic type heater block. (its branded as a vuse go edition 01) it seems to be quite unique that once the cell has been discharged during use it then locks the cell out, after recharging the only way to get it to work is to remove the power or ground from the circuit to sort of reset it and allow it to work again.
The RELX units also use an odd rectangular ceramic heater with inlaid element. I would have made a video about it, but TH-cam gets upset with vape videos.
They've been an oddity in vaporizer design for years. Iirc first done in the Aspire Cleto. Though I could be confusing that with something else. The idea was it would increase the longevity of the heating element. I don't think it did.
Interesting battery - and congrats on one million! That's a big one. You made it before @EEVBlog :)
Nichicon makes batteries in this case style - look for Nichicon SLB series
Maybe because he doesn't berate his viewers as much...
I once followed David (eevblog) on twitter. That was the end of watching his stuff.
Oh you big fan boys... Clive is the "winner winner chick en dinner" ;)
@@TymexComputing and all those Australia not Austria afficionados went come-a-gutsa, waf waf waf waf...
So happy with your channel's success. Thank you for all you've shared with us!
Another wonderful video. Also congrats on the 1M subs, I hope you get your gold play button soon. The disposable vape market for the US hemp industry is a huge nowadays. I remember 2 years ago you could get a 510 threaded cart for $40 for 1 gram of concentrate. Now you can get USB-C rechargeable vape with 3 grams for roughly the same price. Obviously wasteful but the price vs value/convenience is way higher. Even private dispensaries have their own in house made devices for the same prices. 😁
TBH, I'm getting 2 gram 510 carts(new fat bodies with standard 510 cartridge components top and bottom) for ~$22 now. It REALLY depends where you're shopping though that's for sure, I'm lucky enough to have a local shop with great prices. It is mostly disposables in there though.
Always be sure to buy from a trusted dispo or shop when buying carts personally I have seen many many fakes out there it's hard to trust I've seen local shops selling fakes there unregulated and straight from china be safe out there and always check
I put Street Lithium in the cheap blue headtorch from Poundland and a TP-4056 and it's fantastic. You get 30 mins of insanely bright light or 90 minutes of very usable light. No sign of the LEDs going rotten as the heat sink is pretty decent.
I use these for cheap touch s of ebay with out of date batteries from new.
The decline of street lithium will leave the next generation of young engineers without a valuable source of materials to practice on.
"street lithium" 😂 good one
I did similar "project", replaced in cheap headlamp three AAA batteries with one waper Lithium battery- it works, and seem to hold quite good charge. Another bonus is that it's quite noticably lighter now. It's really a shame that those batteries are beeing just thrown away.
I saw a photo not too long ago of a lithium cell built into the shell of a capacitor (from first glance it just looked like a normal cap) and had no idea whether or not it was a real product, but seemingly it is!
Reminds me of the old real-time clock chips that contained a battery in the epoxy to power it. The offending devices I know of being the Phillips CD-I console and a number of 286-era PC motherboards (later problem boards tend to have a soldered-on rechargeable battery that's prone to leaking). They're a headache for retro-tech hobbyists because the devices they were used in are now old enough that the battery has gone flat and won't boot until you get the clock working again.
Congratulations on the 1 million subs. Well deserved and thanks for all the great content!
Probably the best content I’ve came across in the past two years… you gained a new subscriber. Looking forward to more content absolutely love the breakdown of the reverse engineering.
When I realized that these things held these batteries I started collecting them in the off chance I could use them for something around the farm like a gate opener or a small pump… I can’t wait to see what you do with it!
I rebuilt old Makita cordless drill batteries with them. 27pcs wape batteries in one. And they seem to be working ok with BMS board.
16 x the flat lipo pouch style ones (ex-vapes) fitted great into my outdoor PIR solar led light. Charged them all first then ganged them all in parallel using a bit of t+e copper as a sort of busbar, replacing the original 2x AA ni-mh. Now lasts all night, even in Scotland, where solar lights are usually pretty useless for 6 months of the year!
@@TermiicMy little hoover vaccuum cleaner has been running longer with these than the crappy 18650's in stock battery came with. Although I admit I only charge it while I'm around and I have one eye on the front door every time I use it.
That's the dream for me, turning trash into treasure
@@JJFX- ...to run in case it catches fire? :D But seriously - im not suprised the vacuum cleaner runs better, the tiny ones have to work reliably, or else the vape product is total crap and gone from the market.
The standardized 510 threaded battery modules and cartridges were probably the most economically effective as well as environmentally clean method of vaping but the availability of these standardized parts and equipment with a nicotine vapor substance varies from place to place
Modern vape shops have way more disposable junk than actual mods. I had to teach a lady working at one how to use a real mod because she was blowing through disposables super fast.
Exactly, I've seen a few changes in the last 15 years. ;)
Canada had a conniption fit over vaping and has a "won't somebody think of the children" mentality so RDAs, RDTAs, etc are banned for sale in the country. You can only buy tanks with premade coils, pods, or disposables. You can't even change the coil in the pod because of the child safety bullshit you have to throw the whole fucking thing out. They charge us a carbon tax at gas pumps "for the environment" but let tons and tons of plastic ewaste to be created with modified pods and disposables. It's a damn shame they're so ass backward in 2023. Some provinces have even banned "flavors" so you can only get tobacco or unflavored juice. Bitch I quit cigarettes I don't want to keep tasting tobacco, the flavors are what got me off cigs. Sorry for the long rant lol, I'm just so annoyed at their incompetence. I'm glad I diy my juice and have China to buy actual decent gear from.
RDA's and RTA's are the way to go, from a cost and environmental standpoint. But, they take a little more effort and knowledge to use. The user makes their own coils and wicks them with cotton.
Even Pod systems are slightly less wasteful purely because there's no battery being tossed. Granted there's a heating element and plastic container being tossed every other week so still not much better
So appreciative my fav channel is still ad-free.
God bless you Sir Clive.❤
I'm going to resist a rant about these devices, and just say good job Clive for keeping awareness of these devices high.
Also, rechargeable batteries integrated into one use e-vapes, but TV remotes still come with one use batteries.
The most damning example of how insane the world has become.
But you can always put a rechargeable to TV remote. It's not like it's hidden inside and have a lid to replace it.
@@sonickrnd Depends on the voltage the remote requires to operate. Single use AA is 1,5V, rechargable AA is 1,2V. It may not work with lower voltage
these seem far nicer than the pouchs and soldered on 18650s for many applications, neat development. guess the amount of products that benifit from this formfactor finally got big enough it made sense to dedicate something for it
Congratulations on hitting 1 million! 🎉
Never realized they were using a tiny microphone as a pseudo pressure sensor as an on/off switch. Very interesting!
Clap on! Clap Off! The Clapper!
It's not actually a microphone, it's just in the same packaging as a tiny microphone because it's much cheaper to use the manufacturing capability that already exists than to design something new. It's a binary switch, the contacts are attached to the underside of the diaphragm and the connection is broken when you suck it hard enough to pull the diaphragm up. Rip one open some time if you find a disposable vape on the ground, it's actually funny how simple they are inside.
quite a cool and simple piece of engineering. thanks for breaking it down for us and also get well soon.
Very cool and interesting Big Clive.
I hope you feel much better soon.
There's something quite neat about this battery packaging for small devices.
Three traditional vape batteries and a TP4056 rejuvenated/upgraded my electric shaver btw 👍😀
@BreatheScotland parallel, replacing 3x1.2v cells in series. Motor is switched via the battery connections rather than the output pins as the TP4056 cannot handle the current draw (pop!)
Shaver has gone from one haircut per charge to around 5-6 😀😀
The stainless steel tubes from the V1 models are really nice if you use paint stripper, very useful for making neat lights or other stuff out of!
I'm very excited to see the inside of those cells and for what you might have a use for it! It's pretty sleek looking.
**Alex Jones Voice** _"The NSA put microphones in them to spy on you!!!"_
Hey, Alexa, does my disposable vape have a microphone in it that's spying on me 24/7?
Wow, this one has a much better construction than the ones I've been getting batteries from. Those have a coil/liquid part that comes apart as you slide it out, and the battery is connected by wires. This one looks much easier to take out, with it all coming out as one solid part.
Looks easier, but is not! Try removing the components from a semi crushed one 😉 oh and good luck separating the battery from the circuit board 😅
Locally I've found that almost everyone has migrated to the rechargeable disposable vapes (with consequently smaller battery capacities, around the 500-650mAh mark). The pure-disposable ones still exist on store shelves, but I've not found them on the roadside for almost a year now. The fancier rechargeable units now even have a small segmented display (apparently passive OLED with a battery and remaining vape juice indicator), but I haven't managed to obtain one yet. I suspect those have some sort of anti-refill lockout but until I take one apart I can't say for certain.
Congratulations on the 1M subscribers, Clive. Well deserved!
I've seen a couple of those not-capacitor batteries before, in a rechargeable lithium AA battery (the kind with built-in micro USB) and a very skinny one inside the stylus for a Gaomon tablet. Incidentally, I bought the former to put a new battery into the latter. Pack of 4, two of them were too discharged to work as-is but after tearing one of the broken ones apart it turned out that the cell was just discharged to 3 volts and couldn't power the charger/step-down board, manually charging it did the trick.
Please do open one of the 'capacitors' Interesting to see the internal construction. Wonder if its a normal battery stuffed inside or weather its a rolled construction and they have repurposed a capacitor manufacturing machine
My grandma still has her "new fridge", which she got when my mom was about 10 years old. 1971. And it still works. It's inside the cupboard, which was the style at the time.
It makes me so happy that a YTer like BigClive can get a million subscribers. Our nerdy niche community isn't so niche after alll ^_^
As an avid collector of the Li Ion batteries from these devices, (I have a strong need to get these off the streets due to risks to creatures) I have not seen one like this as yet. The packaging of the previous battery design isn’t very robust so it is interesting to see that they are packaging them in what looks to be capacitor casings. This must push the price up quite a bit. Be interested to see how they have packaged the cell inside the ‘can’.
Thanks as ever Clive for your interesting investigative work.
From my own experience these new batteries split open more easily. The pouch type batteries look fragile but are more resistant to crushing than the capacitor type batteries. The new batteries have a cross engraved at the top, this is exactly were the split open 😱
Also the two pins can easily be pushed inside the battery creating further problems 😅
reminds me of those old batteries that looked like supercaps. they used to use them in vintage computers, and they eventually made their way into the fake versions of the shake lights.
Yep, been collecting these. Few more and I'll made some simple little PCB to make it into a powerbank and see how much it leaks
I never buy disposables because of this chap right here. Thanks!
This sort of packaging would be great boon in things like uninterruptible power supplies for little arm SBCs.
I was thinking the same thing, I'm not very clued in on capacitor sizes but if it's a standard size and easy to buy then you could put a discrete TP4056 and DW01 circuit on a custom board and just use a standard capacitor footprint and add a micro USB or a C type for recharge and you have a neat compact ish design
I turn my old disposable vapes into things like stun-guns, torches and laser pointers. All quite easy to do and good fun. I've managed an easy 1" ~ 30kv arc using the the supplied battery and a flyback transformer.
Enquiring minds need to know more about this...!
Congrats on 1 million!!!! Great and informative video as always.
That might be a "LIC" Lithium-ion capacitor, they are a type of hybrid super capacitor that sit somewhere between a typical lithium cell and a capacitor. They have similar voltage/capacity curves to normal cells but are a little safer, more energy dense and have better pulse power performance. The downside is that they have higher self discharge and typically don't come in very high capacity.
Having said all that, they typically have capacitance markings rather than energy markings, so farad rather than mAh, so maybe I'm talking nonsense.
This just reignites my weekly thought of "I should be collecting these off the street, where they often end up, so that I have a pile of batteries to play with"
"If we say it's single-use, we'll damn well *ensure* it's *single-use! Your money belongs to us!"
I love those tiny LIIOn cells, with a TP4506 they make a very good alternative for double and triple AA and AAA battery.
They almost fit inside the existing battery case, just a small adjustment for the USB port and you have a rechargeable battery for 0.20 ct...
Wish I was smart enough to repurpose these batts for reuse lol
I have the USB recharge version in my A/V remote, best conversion ever as batteries lasted weeks in that thing !
I've been waiting for a video on these!! I've taken 5 of these apart already doing my own exploring a while back great video!!
I never would have guessed a microphone could be used as a pressure sensor.
Its a pressure sensor, not a microphone.
Yes, they can be used as microphones, or pressure sensors. Either way, they are generating a small voltage according to the change in pressure, despite what @celestialgamingxd says. Piezo devices can be used as microphones, pressure sensors, shock sensors (like in glass breakage sensors for alarms), strain gauges, Etc. They are very versatile.
@@celestialgamingxd What do you think sound is? It's variances in air pressure.
This device could be used as a microphone OR a pressure sensor. Piezo devices are what create the spark in many lighters. Piezo electricity works 2 ways, apply pressure, it develops a voltage, apply a voltage it generates movement. Ultrasonic cleaners also use large piezo devices to create the ultrasonic waves by reacting to a amplified ultrasonic square wave signal.
@@jeffreyryan7671 This isnt i correct, however this isnt a piezo, they vannet be used as microphones, as much ss i wish they could for recycling purposes. Tons of people have tried
@@celestialgamingxda microphone *is* a pressure sensor
Capacitor-style Lithium-ion cells are also great for microcontroller projects for either powering the higher efficiency low power microcontroller, or just its on-die real-time clock / calendar hardware, in my opinion.
I already knew how to desolder the capacitor-style Lithium-ion cell off the vape board without ruining it, I usually use much more heat so I can desolder it off in as little time as possible so heat soak isn't gonna be too much of a problem (I set my TS100 soldering iron with IronOS installed up for turbo boost of 420 °C for some stubborn soldering situations while it's normally set to 320 °C for usual soldering job, and I have a thin enough soldering tip that I can comfortably get away with it).
I'm very interested to see the internal construction of that "capacitor". Is it purpose-built, or is it an off-the-shelf lithium cell in a little capacitor-shaped canister?
Yes! Open it, open it.
Off the shelf I'd say, a super cheap ball hair trimmer I got from Ali had this same exact cell in it.
Full blast it lasts like 15mins though.
But for a "Idc if it breaks" object, it's just fine.
It's a standard battery form factor. It's just very rarely used due to the resulting shape. Seems perfect for these vape devices though... Just a pity they insist on them being disposable.
In Italy this company is now selling this product with a rechargeable battery and a usb-c port. It uses replaceable cartridges for the liquid.
Thank you so much for letting me know abut these
Since I know what to look out for, I have now collected these things in the hundreds (Mostly from shops were they actually get returned to by some customers!)
I am currently working on a powerstation made up of those square pouch cells (all the same size of course). Planned are 7S100P of 500mAh cells, so 700 of them, which gives about 1,3kWh of energy
I sort roughly by voltage, solder 10 together, charge and discharge them to check for heating and capacity. Then let them sit for 2 weeks and check for self discharge. With a few exceptions all the packs assembled this way measure very close to 4600mAh from 4,2-3V @ 5A
I like this form factor for li-ion batteries. I can totally see some of these in more serious and less junk products, like tiny backup power supplies for system on chips, or internet-of-thingy sensors and stuff. With optional solar cells.
Quitting smoking not serious???
@@farmazooticalz quitting smoking with such disposable devices is not serious when you can invest into devices better in every ways for less than 30 $/€/£
Looks like they made them to remove the electronics guts and recharge the battery and install in a new case. Applying 5v to the filiment plus and minus recharges the battery in these. Also the LED lights up red as well then goes out. I am guessing they are using the led as a voltage refrence to indicate end of charging as well as a indicator. During normal use the Led glows blue when you take a drag.❤
This is fascinating - I can foresee these becoming very popular as model aircraft power systems - instant recharge and very light weight.
I love this. It's been soo long since I saw an alert for your channel!
I have actually collected around 100 of these and torn them down. All of them are the old lithium-ion battery versions, these Elfbars had 400 mAh in the past, not 500. Some other brands had 500 mAh, but it was quite rare compared to the 400 mAh ones.
I think you'll find the UK versions elf b/lost m) were 550mAh, but are now 360mAh! I've collected over 1000 in the last 3 years. The earliest elf b had 600mAh 😉
Collected more than 1000 but never keep more than 200 😅
Get well soon Big Clive. Probably everyone has had or going to have this nasty bug doing the rounds. Hard to believe these are made to be disposable. Can’t help thinking It shouldn’t be allowed to be sold like that especially as it has precious and semiprecious metals inside .
Those little cell are handy in that I reuse them in my TV remotes and such. No more buying batteries for the remote. About the same life as normal, too. It was worth a go for me. Like to see you do it Mr. Clive. Blessings and peace. 😊
Found one of these Elfbar 600V2 devices discarded in the grass last week. Good thing I waited for your video before attempting disassembly. I opted to use flush cutters with masking tape around the blades to simply cut the PCB off one terminal at a time instead of desoldering. I wouldn't expect that 5-pin chip to have any recharging circuitry. It is basically the same chip that was inside the pressure sensing capsule of the older version Elfbar. So all the manufacturers have done is manage to waste even more components, reduced the battery capacity, and frustrate people trying the recycle the battery.
At least I don't have to cut the top off the pressure sensor capsule to reach that 5-pin chip. It can be repurposed as a capacitive touch sensor that is capable of switching sufficient current to trigger a relay, DC hobby motor, or small solemoid.
Back in November 2022, lithium peaked at 400% of current prices (600+% of pre-pandemic levels). Here in Canada, that meant a lot of retail availability for lithium/li-ion cells suddenly stopped being a thing. All the vape stores in my area used to carry 18650s, but since the price peak we're down to just 1 store that still has any, and it turned out they were sub-capacity knockoffs.
I'm not surprised to see consumer product companies cheaping out on cell selection too, but I have to wonder how long it will last. It's certainly surprising it took us this long to catch on to the change in some devices (I'm guessing it's the lag between manufacturing, shipping, and sale). Let's hope consumer demand brings back the better stuff.
Plenty of consumer demand, and plenty of nanny-state regulations "to protect the children."
@@mercster not sure what that has to do with anything.
@@marcogenovesi8570 "what's this!? the consequences of my actions!?"
@@Coconut-219 what actions? Vapes may or may not be banned by a nanny state (don't smoke, don't care) but that has nothing to do with availability of 18560 cells. The main "drain" for the supply of those items is the EV battery packs and static battery pack markets.
Intriguing new design of cell that, looks much sturdier than the pouch cells that seem all too easy to accidentally pierce, though at a cost of capacity, but far more handy for integrating onto a DIY PCB design of somesort...
I've not really seen much of those pouch cells anymore. They usually only come in one of those weird flat Lost Mary's or the Geek bars which have pretty much been phased out already and no one uses them anymore. Now all I see is the regular LiPO batteries that are somewhat smaller than an AAA in terms of height and width. And the massive ones that are like a bit smaller version than the D cells.
Sure, the pouch type batteries are more easy to pierce, but they are more resistant to crushing when inside the vapes. Trust me, I have much experience after collection hundreds of these things 😅
@genesis1914 not so in the UK! The majority I find are still using pouch batteries in various shapes and sizes. Not all pouch batteries are flat and rectangular 😉
@genesis1914 those AA shape batteries are pouch types too, just cylinder shaped!
These 'mic' sensors in e-cigs, you cleared up a misconception for me: I'd always assumed that an ultrasonic "dog-whistle" had been somehow molded into the case so the mic could be connected to a low-power circuit which is tuned to fire at that frequency. Also, I really like the idea of fitting LIPO cells into electrolytic cap cans.. It seems so much more robust. Cheers!
That product being disposable should be illegal.. Liked and subscribed. Amazing video.
I see those things littered everywhere
Some say they're garbage, i say they're a source of free lithium cells
Pretty neat...I am definitely curious about the battery...I'm thinking probably a small pouch type cell like the ones in Vuse
@@pahub9256 Surely its rolled? eg th-cam.com/video/gYFuVbZmu5M/w-d-xo.html
Why would you put a pouch in a tube that's in another tube anyway?
Congrats on 1M Clive. Well Done.
Seeing '1M' as the subscribers number is kinda minimalist cool. Well done Big Clive 👍
Just quick note, depending on how aggressive you charge lithiums. It's quite common to get more mAh out than went in. Since the voltage sag means even with less mAh in you put more wh in
And there are designend for one time use, so they drain them empty until the voltage is below of what the IC needs
I'm disgusted that these are disposable, battery and all. Isn't there any legislation against them? Good video, by the way.
This video should be titled: How vape works.
Great explanation as always.
One of the reasons people use "Disposable vapes" over "rechargable ones" is the OVER sweetened taste of juices.
The HUGE selections of "Disposable vapes" on the market will tell that most of the people don't really care about the environment.
Hope you feel better soon clive!
The modularity honestly looks amazing and unexpected, but then you mentioned that recharging isn't really supported, so I went back to being angry at the wastefulness of the entire concept of these fairy fart devices :/
It's irrational, but I love the form factor. It would be interesting to see what's inside - for that volume, they should hold more than 280mAh. I wonder if there is some (dis)charge protection/current limiting circuitry in it, potentially doubling the ASIC functionality? 🤔
It'll be the same as a standard lithium cell, but with the terminals both on the same end.
Another great video Clive, thanks for doing this.
I'm so glad all this "green" stuff has lead to disposable and not easily rebuildable devices
There's no way that's actually a capacitor. I would be willing to bet that it's one of the standard tiny lithium-ion cells stuffed inside a casing to make it look like a capacitor. I have a fairly good idea of the reason they are doing this too: Recycling bins for disposable vapes are becoming increasingly common in vape shops, and the disposables deposited in these bins get sent back to the factory for the cells to be re-used. About time too, since they are rechargeable. So my guess is that this more modular design makes salvaging the cells much easier and quicker. Certainly a lot easier than cutting the tiny little wires off the plastic-wrapped tagged cells used in almost every other disposaible vape - salvaging those must be incredibly tedious by comparison.
it's definitely not a conventional capacitor, but if it's Li as described in the title, it's most likely a hybrid capacitor, i.e., it has the graphite cathode from an ultracapacitor and a Li-doped graphite anode from a Li-ion battery. That way it has the advantages of both ultracapacitors and batteries, namely high power charging/discharging (necessary for vaping which requires fairly high currents) and higher, longer lasting energy storage than ultracapcitors. ultracapacitors technically aren't actually capacitors themselves but that's more information than I need to give rn
tell us how you didnt watch the video
@@MrTicky4 good guess but those graphite hybrids are way more expensive and have less capacity in this size, maybe 0.3Wh not 1.3Wh.
@@MrTicky4 If this were for a high powered vape mod, then I might agree. But this is a disposable vape - and they are not very powerful, the heating coils are only about 5 watts, which draws about 1.2 amps at most from a lithium-ion cell. The 13300 cells used are easily capable of delivering that much current, there is no need for an ultracapacitor or even a hybrid ultracapacitor/battery. The other reason is cost - ultracapacitors are expensive compared to these little cells, so would not be used in disposable vapes.
I can tell just by looking at it that the specs printed on the cell (13300 size, 360 mAh, 3.7V, 1.33 wH) are identical to the cells used in some other disposable vapes, such as the "vuse" brand or some of the counterfeit "lost mary" versions with smaller than normal liquid tanks. The more common sizes are 13350 (500 mAh, 1.85 wH) or 13400 (550 mAh, 2.05 wH), used in "elfbar" or "crystal" brands, amongst others. The main reason for the slightly larger capacity cells is the slightly larger liquid tanks - the heating coil power is the same, it just has to be able to run for longer overall to vaporise a larger volume of liquid.
Thanks for the education guys!
This trash should be banned. They most of the time get just thrown away because the Lithium battery can't be recharged. It's just dump as hell
I collect as many as I can find, as I remove the batteries and use them as rechargeable batteries for my projects. But yes majority get wasted, littered etc. 😢
Congrats on the 1 mill!!👏👏👏
I’m fairly new to your channel. You make awesome videos, I thoroughly enjoy watching.
Very interesting bit of sh1t, god talk about cost cutting and wasteful practices. 👍👍
last thing we need is youtube triggered. Its getting to a point where people using news footage have to bleep the news reader that said "awful" things on the teatime news 🤦♂
just because some advertising Karens dont want specific words used in a video they are cashing in on.
These need to be banned! Horrible waste of resources. Rubbish centres have had to have special robots installed to remove these explosive batteries from normal waste. This has cost the business owners a lot of money. As I have said before. All the young kids at work recycle these through me and I make Bluetooth headphones double their listening time. I hate the waste of electronics especially batteries.
i dont understand shit about electronics and dont have much interest in them. Yet i'm still watching this amazingly entretaining video. Great job man!
LTO Zells Lithium Titan oxyde were built for longer time in this shape. LTO cells does have only 2,4 V but extremly less resistance (inside)
Awesome video! Always wondered about the inner workings
That’s shocking! Congrats on hitting 1M.
The part labelled as MIC is in fact a microphone. Pressure sensors and microphones have very similar internals. Diaphragm on a coil, or in this case, diaphragm in front of an electret. Pressure sensors would generally be held to some kind of accuracy expectation and so they tend to cost $5+. So these guys are using a vented electret condensor microphone as a cheap differential pressure sensor. I guess that's what the ASIC is required for, it'll be looking for a reduction in capacitance (from the diaphragm deflecting away from the electret) from the mic for a certain extended period of time before it activates the burner. That time window probably needs to exceed 50ms or so, so that it doesn't get tricked by loud Bass.
I’ve been watching Clive as much to relax as to learn for a long time. But I’ve got a new fan in the house now. Turns out the dulcet tones of a Scots engineer works better than white noise to get a newborn to sleep!
Many people have told me they use my videos to help their babies sleep.