Unbelievable explanation! And it was eye....uh ear... opening! I wish I had known this so many years ago. You've developed a way to show your customer phasing and cancellation. I've always known there was a problem mounting midbass in the door but I figured it would be solved by simply adding an enclosure. My theory was since 100% of the back wave wasn't captured that there would always be a phasing problem. This helped on my show car back in the late 90s but I knew there was still something happening that pulled instruments down to the door and back up onto the dash. Incidentally it was always a cello or oboe and as the frequency swept, it would move from the floor to the dash. It seems that basically you've matched the door speakers and dash speakers together and just use placement and cabin gain to compensate for the loss in DB in that small range. What drivers are you using for midbass and how much power are they seeing? Do you have pictures of your door build? As always you have helped me tremendously as I'm starting to put together my front stage and you just changed my world completely LOL but for the good! Thanks my friend!
Ive been thinking of adding a 5.25 to my 3.5 and tweeter in my dash to extend down to ~150/200hz (basically i want all vocals up high). Everyone thinks im crazy! Great build and thanks for the video!
Hertz Mille Pro 3.5" installed in factory dash location firing straight up at windshield. Its supposed to play down to 250hz, but i'm afraid to run it that low. I have it crossed over at 450hz. I was considering sealing up the factory trim ring with some rubber and adding some foam rings underneath the magnet to give a slight box feel to the underside.
I’ve installed 3” mids and tweeters on the a pillar and b pillars the angles are pointed to the centre of the cabin It’s a Peugeot partner van All fibreglased and the angles are different so there is no cancellation. Problem I do not want to install the midbass in the doors Door speakers can be affected when your legs cover the sound and amount of noise regrading if you sound proof it I’m thinking of designing an enclosure above the cabin ie a bazooka enclose Will the sound be affected for midbass if they are not angled towards the centre image I can send you pictures of the current speakers I used to do installation for 20 years for incar companies pioneer kenwood and installed for clients for shows Please let me know if the enclosure is correct at height level
could you put an 8" in the dash instead of the 6.5"? if yes or no, could you explain? i am doing a similar build next year, where i am removing the dash and placing speakers where i need them, then rebuilding the gauges etc
Hi. Could I get your opinion on the Audible Physics 6.5s for an active 2 way + sub system I'm working on. They will have to go in the doors and will be paired with some large format Morel tweeters I already own. Doors are sealed and deadened. Trying to find a mid thats a great anchor for a 2 way. Thank you.
Pssound Hi. Thanks for your reply. I've only had some old Boston Acoustic Pros and my last install was Dls Nobelium. I'm trying to find something that's good through the frequency range and will play to 80ish hz well. Thanks again.
The ones in this video in the doors were capable of playing all the way down to 50Hz solid, still well audible at 35Hz. On moderate levels they could be enjoyable even without a sub, so playing down to 80Hz is not an issue at all. When it comes to pairing it to a wideband/tweeter, it’s just as easy. However, you have to understand that when you have a midbass driver in the door firing into your legs, at listening position the response is highly effected by the by the location and aiming of any driver. So in nearfield they can have a linear response even upto 5-7khz, but once you listen/measure where your head is it’s gonna be a whole different story and that is exactly why Audible Physics is well known of their widebands, which can play from 200-400Hz (depending on model) up on dash height instead of conventional tweeters playing from 3-4kHz+ and up and that way you don’t have to struggle to get midrange out of midbass drivers down low in the doors in non-ideal location. Having said all this, all 6,5”s can play up very high, way higher than most other beands’ 6,5”s.
Pssound, I can understand what you are saying regarding the frequency response when mids are installed in doors. The baffles i am building are angled as much as I have room for. I understand this is still not ideal and may not make much of a difference, but kickpanels would be extremely difficult in the car. We are r/h drive and the accelerator pedal is about 20mm away from the kickpanels. I think I will try and source the AP 6.5s, see how they go in the doors, and give some serious consideration to running the widebanders which sound like they will help with the limitations of the mid location. Thanks you again.
you might want to weigh in on this discussion - www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/381290-has-anyone-built-world-class-system-using-dash-mounted-mids.html
Cheers for mentioning me! I’ve actually seen this topic before, someone sent it to me few weeks ago! The trouble is that i don’t want to get involved on DIYMA as all these media take lots of time! We also use Talkstuff in UK and it’s hard to keep up with everyone everywhere. Also, as much as my setup looks like i have a 6,5 mid up on the dash, it only plays 2 octaves, whereas the 2” is the one that covers most of the range, which is on the pillars.
So basically you fixed one problem, but created another? Thanks for showing us your trial an error. Helps with new installs.
That is a Great sounding car.
Unbelievable explanation! And it was eye....uh ear... opening!
I wish I had known this so many years ago. You've developed a way to show your customer phasing and cancellation. I've always known there was a problem mounting midbass in the door but I figured it would be solved by simply adding an enclosure. My theory was since 100% of the back wave wasn't captured that there would always be a phasing problem. This helped on my show car back in the late 90s but I knew there was still something happening that pulled instruments down to the door and back up onto the dash. Incidentally it was always a cello or oboe and as the frequency swept, it would move from the floor to the dash.
It seems that basically you've matched the door speakers and dash speakers together and just use placement and cabin gain to compensate for the loss in DB in that small range.
What drivers are you using for midbass and how much power are they seeing?
Do you have pictures of your door build?
As always you have helped me tremendously as I'm starting to put together my front stage and you just changed my world completely LOL but for the good!
Thanks my friend!
At the moment i have the same Audible Physics RAM6 both up on the dash and in the doors, but the doors are about to change drastically 😃
Ive been thinking of adding a 5.25 to my 3.5 and tweeter in my dash to extend down to ~150/200hz (basically i want all vocals up high). Everyone thinks im crazy! Great build and thanks for the video!
Get a 4” well installed then and you can get rid of the 3,5”.
How low can the current 3,5” go? How is it installed?
Hertz Mille Pro 3.5" installed in factory dash location firing straight up at windshield. Its supposed to play down to 250hz, but i'm afraid to run it that low. I have it crossed over at 450hz. I was considering sealing up the factory trim ring with some rubber and adding some foam rings underneath the magnet to give a slight box feel to the underside.
How is your Hertz Mille Pro system btw? I'm going to be having a full 3 way of that very set installed something this summer.
Brilliant!! excellent explanation!!
great job dude love your videos
Great explanation 👌
great explanation, thanks
I give you my 2002 Accord to do the best sound ever. You can have it for one year, but on the end i will keep it and put it on a museum...... ;)
Send it then! 👍😃🔊🔊
@@pssound9749 I live in Portugal. Do you want to drive it there? Best regards!
@@MrXispas it’s not that bad drive at all! We regularly do distance like that.
Are you using custom crossovers or off shelve. Analog dogital? Thank You.
I’ve installed 3” mids and tweeters on the a pillar and b pillars the angles are pointed to the centre of the cabin
It’s a Peugeot partner van
All fibreglased and the angles are different so there is no cancellation.
Problem I do not want to install the midbass in the doors
Door speakers can be affected when your legs cover the sound and amount of noise regrading if you sound proof it
I’m thinking of designing an enclosure above the cabin ie a bazooka enclose
Will the sound be affected for midbass if they are not angled towards the centre image
I can send you pictures of the current speakers
I used to do installation for 20 years for incar companies pioneer kenwood and installed for clients for shows
Please let me know if the enclosure is correct at height level
Anything is better than rattly doors. 👍
could you put an 8" in the dash instead of the 6.5"? if yes or no, could you explain? i am doing a similar build next year, where i am removing the dash and placing speakers where i need them, then rebuilding the gauges etc
Hi, i dont have space for midbass in kicks.. can The centerconsole work?
Ideally you want it to be stereo, as wide as the mids.
Hi. Could I get your opinion on the Audible Physics 6.5s for an active 2 way + sub system I'm working on. They will have to go in the doors and will be paired with some large format Morel tweeters I already own. Doors are sealed and deadened. Trying to find a mid thats a great anchor for a 2 way. Thank you.
Brendan, what midbass have you had before? What is your expectation and reference?
Pssound Hi. Thanks for your reply. I've only had some old Boston Acoustic Pros and my last install was Dls Nobelium. I'm trying to find something that's good through the frequency range and will play to 80ish hz well. Thanks again.
The ones in this video in the doors were capable of playing all the way down to 50Hz solid, still well audible at 35Hz. On moderate levels they could be enjoyable even without a sub, so playing down to 80Hz is not an issue at all.
When it comes to pairing it to a wideband/tweeter, it’s just as easy. However, you have to understand that when you have a midbass driver in the door firing into your legs, at listening position the response is highly effected by the by the location and aiming of any driver. So in nearfield they can have a linear response even upto 5-7khz, but once you listen/measure where your head is it’s gonna be a whole different story and that is exactly why Audible Physics is well known of their widebands, which can play from 200-400Hz (depending on model) up on dash height instead of conventional tweeters playing from 3-4kHz+ and up and that way you don’t have to struggle to get midrange out of midbass drivers down low in the doors in non-ideal location.
Having said all this, all 6,5”s can play up very high, way higher than most other beands’ 6,5”s.
Pssound, I can understand what you are saying regarding the frequency response when mids are installed in doors. The baffles i am building are angled as much as I have room for. I understand this is still not ideal and may not make much of a difference, but kickpanels would be extremely difficult in the car. We are r/h drive and the accelerator pedal is about 20mm away from the kickpanels. I think I will try and source the AP 6.5s, see how they go in the doors, and give some serious consideration to running the widebanders which sound like they will help with the limitations of the mid location. Thanks you again.
Brendan, where do you live?
so what speakers do you have now then?
Rebuild has just started! 💪
You’ll see it very soon! 😉
you might want to weigh in on this discussion - www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/381290-has-anyone-built-world-class-system-using-dash-mounted-mids.html
Cheers for mentioning me! I’ve actually seen this topic before, someone sent it to me few weeks ago!
The trouble is that i don’t want to get involved on DIYMA as all these media take lots of time! We also use Talkstuff in UK and it’s hard to keep up with everyone everywhere.
Also, as much as my setup looks like i have a 6,5 mid up on the dash, it only plays 2 octaves, whereas the 2” is the one that covers most of the range, which is on the pillars.