Very nice build! The zerk fittings are a nice touch, and I couldn't help noticing that you painted it in U. W. Husky colors, probably not on purpose. Between you and Coleson there are some great ideas here. Thanks!
Thank you! The colors were merely a factor of whatever cans of spray paint my wife grabbed for me, lol! We always seen to choose eclectic colors and combos.
You did a very good job improving on Coleson's design. I'm an engineer, so once I saw his video, I wanted to improve on the design. But you beat me to it. I do agree that the counterweight would be a better design. Great job
I really like how clean it looks and do prefer this design over others I have seen. Unfortunately for my first attempt at building one it will be more like Coleson Child's design due to what I have on hand but with some of your inspiration incorporating into it. Hopefully be able to get on this project before the end of the year, other projects have been on the list for some time now. Thank you for sharing your work, very nice job.
@@bokfuman thank you! And I get it. Half of my projects, and probably closer to 3/4, are based on what's in my scrap pile. This was no exception. At the end of the day, as long as the job gets done, right?
So I am building a version of my own. Eventually also plan to make a video. Your take is really inter resting and I think the small springs taking the shock is a really good idea. I am really questioning whether the pulleys make a difference though. As I understand mechanical advantage, it actually takes at least two pulleys to convert torque to speed or vise versa. One pulley on its own merely redirects the force, minus the drag of making the bend. I really don't think there is any advantage there versus a direct chain and a spring. Anyway thanks for sharing, I can't wait to see how mine turns out. Thank you for adding to this discussion on the guillotine style treadle hammer. Mine is being made from the frame of some kind of fitness equipment frame, and I think is making a good foundation. I am using a John Deere tractor tool bar for the anvil. For mine I really would love to have it turn out to have the same ability as a regular guillotine tool to form a shoulder.
I'm not an engineer, but what little I understand is that the movable pulley has a mechanical advantage of two. (Half the force required) You are correct in that a single fixed pulley has a mechanical advantage of 1, but a movable pulley has a mechanical advantage of two. It took me a bit to grok how it all worked, but it really came into focus after a look up on Movable vs Fixed pulley systems. Does my device feel like a mechanical advantage of two? Not sure, as I have nothing to reference against. However, I can easily drive a center punch into the piece roughly an eighth of an inch. My touch mark goes in very crisply as does my other chisels and punches. No doubt, the Spencer treadle does similarly, but I had to work with what I had. I may do a follow up video showing the measurements of travel of the treadle vs the hammer.
Also, I had to "upgrade" the shock absorbing springs. The originals did deform after some heavy hits. I replaced them with a 'porch spring' pair. A compression spring with two opposing forks working against it. Can't deform these, and they are far heavier.
Thanks for posting. I'm in the process of building one as well. The pulley system is very interesting. It can be a bit confusing because we do not normally think of moving the pulley rather than pulling the rope. Pulling the rope over a pulley only changes the direction of the force (no matter how big the pulley is). What I think is actually happening is really a function of the spring. At the beginning of your stroke the spring stores the energy that is delivered later in the stroke. I think that actually allows you to make a faster stroke and also generates higher hammer speed as well. It is acting a bit like the shaft of a golf club. This may add complexity and cost to my build because it is just so brilliant. Maybe you could go into a little detail about how the change in height plays out with the pulley system.
The more I think about this the more clarity I seem to have. If BOTH ends of the chain were attached to the carriage, then the pull would be 1:1. BUT since only one end hooks to the carriage it is 2:1. This is not what causes an increase in speed as much as an increase in force. When I actually put mine together It will allow me to make measurements to see if my theories match reality.
@andrewbrenner check out my other video that explains the pulley system in more detail. I actually do measure the movement and verify that it is definitely not just a 1:1 system. One key thing to remember is as another viewer pointed out, that I didn't measure directly from the pulley, rather I measured from the treadle, and that skewed the measurements. Still, the point was made.
It's just like a snatch block pulley. It should be exactly 2:1 movement between the travel of the pulley and the travel of the hammer. However you also have the lever arm of the treadle as well. So maybe it's not 2:1 between treadle and hammer.
Love the build. Clearly a lot of thought went into it. If you want a higher ratio, use a larger pulley. Its the same principle as a multi gear bike or a transmission in a car. You can use the same input force but get a higher output.😊
It cost me less than $200 out of pocket specifically for this project, but that's only because I really dug into my stockpile of metal. If I had to guess as to a cost of buying all of it, I'd assume close to a thousand or more, but it will come down to your haggling and scrounging abilities as well as luck. The anvil is two pieces of railroad track capped with two pieces of 1.5" plate. Weighs about 280ish pounds.
@@rationallyjustified I'm not an engineer, but I believe that because the gear only acts to change the direction of force, it wouldn't effect the velocity.
Use old gym equipment for your counter weight. You could adjust it and use pulley and the slide mechanism already built. Im designing something similar. Every pulley reduces pullable force... so adding another pulley into your chain would double force again. Anyways.. i was even considering 2 pulleys and a bowflex as a my spring mechanism. Old gym equipment from garage sales are cheap lol
Whats the tonnage on your fly press and what kind of stock can it handle? I just got a #3 Norton but not really sure what the limits are to its abilities.
@@cholulahotsauce6166 it's a "5 ton" according to the source. It can handle large stock, but it'll take several heats if you need to move a lot of metal. I mostly use it for forming, bending, & texturing. I can use it for heavy forging, but it does feel a bit abusive.
Nice! I was hoping for a demonstration!
Coming soon!
That looks so good man! Great job!
Thanks!
Very nice build! The zerk fittings are a nice touch, and I couldn't help noticing that you painted it in U. W. Husky colors, probably not on purpose. Between you and Coleson there are some great ideas here. Thanks!
Thank you!
The colors were merely a factor of whatever cans of spray paint my wife grabbed for me, lol!
We always seen to choose eclectic colors and combos.
You did a very good job improving on Coleson's design. I'm an engineer, so once I saw his video, I wanted to improve on the design. But you beat me to it. I do agree that the counterweight would be a better design. Great job
I really like how clean it looks and do prefer this design over others I have seen. Unfortunately for my first attempt at building one it will be more like Coleson Child's design due to what I have on hand but with some of your inspiration incorporating into it. Hopefully be able to get on this project before the end of the year, other projects have been on the list for some time now. Thank you for sharing your work, very nice job.
@@bokfuman thank you! And I get it. Half of my projects, and probably closer to 3/4, are based on what's in my scrap pile. This was no exception. At the end of the day, as long as the job gets done, right?
Very nice!!
So I am building a version of my own. Eventually also plan to make a video. Your take is really inter resting and I think the small springs taking the shock is a really good idea. I am really questioning whether the pulleys make a difference though. As I understand mechanical advantage, it actually takes at least two pulleys to convert torque to speed or vise versa. One pulley on its own merely redirects the force, minus the drag of making the bend. I really don't think there is any advantage there versus a direct chain and a spring. Anyway thanks for sharing, I can't wait to see how mine turns out. Thank you for adding to this discussion on the guillotine style treadle hammer. Mine is being made from the frame of some kind of fitness equipment frame, and I think is making a good foundation. I am using a John Deere tractor tool bar for the anvil. For mine I really would love to have it turn out to have the same ability as a regular guillotine tool to form a shoulder.
I'm not an engineer, but what little I understand is that the movable pulley has a mechanical advantage of two. (Half the force required) You are correct in that a single fixed pulley has a mechanical advantage of 1, but a movable pulley has a mechanical advantage of two. It took me a bit to grok how it all worked, but it really came into focus after a look up on Movable vs Fixed pulley systems.
Does my device feel like a mechanical advantage of two? Not sure, as I have nothing to reference against. However, I can easily drive a center punch into the piece roughly an eighth of an inch. My touch mark goes in very crisply as does my other chisels and punches. No doubt, the Spencer treadle does similarly, but I had to work with what I had.
I may do a follow up video showing the measurements of travel of the treadle vs the hammer.
Also, I had to "upgrade" the shock absorbing springs. The originals did deform after some heavy hits.
I replaced them with a 'porch spring' pair. A compression spring with two opposing forks working against it. Can't deform these, and they are far heavier.
Thanks for posting. I'm in the process of building one as well.
The pulley system is very interesting. It can be a bit confusing because we do not normally think of moving the pulley rather than pulling the rope. Pulling the rope over a pulley only changes the direction of the force (no matter how big the pulley is).
What I think is actually happening is really a function of the spring. At the beginning of your stroke the spring stores the energy that is delivered later in the stroke. I think that actually allows you to make a faster stroke and also generates higher hammer speed as well. It is acting a bit like the shaft of a golf club.
This may add complexity and cost to my build because it is just so brilliant. Maybe you could go into a little detail about how the change in height plays out with the pulley system.
The more I think about this the more clarity I seem to have. If BOTH ends of the chain were attached to the carriage, then the pull would be 1:1. BUT since only one end hooks to the carriage it is 2:1. This is not what causes an increase in speed as much as an increase in force. When I actually put mine together It will allow me to make measurements to see if my theories match reality.
@andrewbrenner check out my other video that explains the pulley system in more detail. I actually do measure the movement and verify that it is definitely not just a 1:1 system. One key thing to remember is as another viewer pointed out, that I didn't measure directly from the pulley, rather I measured from the treadle, and that skewed the measurements. Still, the point was made.
It's just like a snatch block pulley. It should be exactly 2:1 movement between the travel of the pulley and the travel of the hammer.
However you also have the lever arm of the treadle as well. So maybe it's not 2:1 between treadle and hammer.
@@eoinmacantsaoir811 I hope to get back to work on mine early next year. I asked someone to help with a part of it and they are busier than I am!
Good design, very snappy
Love the build. Clearly a lot of thought went into it. If you want a higher ratio, use a larger pulley. Its the same principle as a multi gear bike or a transmission in a car. You can use the same input force but get a higher output.😊
Hmmm... 🤔
Great video! How much did it run you at the end of the day? And where did you get that big chunk of steel for the anvil?
It cost me less than $200 out of pocket specifically for this project, but that's only because I really dug into my stockpile of metal. If I had to guess as to a cost of buying all of it, I'd assume close to a thousand or more, but it will come down to your haggling and scrounging abilities as well as luck. The anvil is two pieces of railroad track capped with two pieces of 1.5" plate. Weighs about 280ish pounds.
@@RustyMetalRanch beautiful. Thanks for sharing this, dude!
Whats the gear size for the chain linkage? Couldn't you increase sprocket size for more velocity too?
@@rationallyjustified I'm not an engineer, but I believe that because the gear only acts to change the direction of force, it wouldn't effect the velocity.
How thick is your Pad that it is sitting on?
That's a piece of 1/2" steel plate for the bottom on top of a piece of heavy rubber stall mat. I think it's 3/4".
Use old gym equipment for your counter weight. You could adjust it and use pulley and the slide mechanism already built. Im designing something similar. Every pulley reduces pullable force... so adding another pulley into your chain would double force again. Anyways.. i was even considering 2 pulleys and a bowflex as a my spring mechanism. Old gym equipment from garage sales are cheap lol
Whats the tonnage on your fly press and what kind of stock can it handle? I just got a #3 Norton but not really sure what the limits are to its abilities.
@@cholulahotsauce6166 it's a "5 ton" according to the source. It can handle large stock, but it'll take several heats if you need to move a lot of metal. I mostly use it for forming, bending, & texturing. I can use it for heavy forging, but it does feel a bit abusive.