Will any player ever challenge Gretzky for GOAT title? | OverDrive
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- Bryan Hayes, Jamie McLennan and Jeff O’Neill are joined by TSN Hockey analyst Ray Ferraro to debate if there is a player that could ever be considered the greatest of all-time ahead of, or in line with, Wayne Gretzky.
He doesn’t only have the record but the 5 below it in each category where he holds one. His stats and achievements from 18-28 is unreal.
80s was a garbage era, just watch some highlights. No defence, no goalies. Players didn't train in the summer, smoked before the games. They had no idea about strength, conditioning or nutrition. Goalies and their equipment were tiny in comparison. No team defence or no concept of different effective defensive schemes.
80s was essentially pond hockey compared to today's game.
@@justinberber9848 and all the best russians and czechs were not allowed to play in the nhl.
and Hasek's achievements from 29-39 is insane
Come on look how goalie was bad if you compare from today. Mcadavid crosby ans ovi are better than gretzky .
@@justinberber9848 1000% agreed with you for me mcdavid crosby and ovechkin are better than gretzky because of all this fact . Put gretzky in todays game im not sure he will perform like that
"You have to be that much better than everybody else"
Yeah, this is the thing. People talk about the high scoring 80's, but they don't look at how much further ahead he was than the competition. For example, look at the leaders in points per game in the 1983-84 season when Gretzky set the record (that still stands today) for highest points per game. Here are the top 5.
5. Michel Goulet 1.63
4. Bryan Trottier 1.63
3. Mike Bossy 1.76
2. Jari Kurri 1.77
1. Wayne Gretzky 2.77
That's right, Gretzky was a full point per game ahead of the next best scorer in the league. That is dominance that Crosby, McDavid, whoever you want to name, can't match. It'll take that level of dominance for someone to take the GOAT title from Gretzky.
Gretzky had the highest hockey I.Q of any player. He played the game like a chess match. Mario Lemieux was the most physically talented player. Gordie Howe was the most complete all round player. He could score, pass, hit, fight, and his longevity is a thing of legend.
Gordie Howe played with a flat Blade for the first 15 years of his career. He'd have 900+ Goals and 2000+ points with a curved blade.
@@jeffreykaufmann2867 And Mario would've had 1000+ goals and 2300 points in his career if he didn't get injured. But he did. And Howe didn't play with a curved blade.
@@11DNA11 I said that Howe played with a flat blade for 1st 15 years.
@11DNA11 how many points Gretzky would have had had he remained an Oiler for 20 years?
wilt chamberlain averaged 50.4 points per game one year in the nba but no one considers him the basketball goat
Yep that man put in serious effort, also played without the 3 point line
I consider him the GOAT
Cuz he only won one ring. MJ is the goat right now but Lebron might catch him if he gets more rings
@@6ixman259
I’m curious why so many automatically think the answer to the question as it relates to basketball is Jordan, when there are legitimately at least 3-4 others who fit the bill.
Define “no one”. That’s as ridiculous as the Jordan fanboys who claim that “everyone” believes their hero is the best ever.
Without the strike & two Covid seasons, at his career pace of .61 GPG, his would of been 805. One COULD count the 04-05 season after he drafted, that would be 856. Ovie would of been more than challenging it now
You can't judge Wayne on his points but just think 9 straight hart tropheys 8 stright scoring titles.If someone comes around and dominates in that way I think you can put him in the discussion,
Still got few rings
I mean Gretzky's records are untouchable but McDavid is the most skilled player of all time by 10,000,000 years
Sid is more skilled than mcdavid
@@AntVandy Yup I agree. McDavid is bigger , faster, strong but I think Sid is more skilled. Not by much , I mean McDavid is incredible.
@@Williaem00 Crosby is def stronger
@@Williaem00 mcdavid is taller than sid but he weights less than sid mcdavid is 6'1 193 sid is 5'11 200
Mario Lemieux is the goat!
No doubt
If he never got sick I truely believe he would have surpassed Wayne.
@@thrash208 yeah ez if he just got to play full career
No
Let’s see Mario score 163 assists in a season. Let’s see Mario score the most goals in a season while simultaneously winning the scoring title with his assists alone. Let’s see Mario score 1000 points in the least amount of games ever (424 games) and then score another 1000 points in the 2nd least number of games ever (433 games). Let’s see Mario score the fastest 50 goals ever (39 games) and also the 2nd fastest (42 games). Let’s see Mario score over 100 assists ELEVEN years in a row instead of just once, ala Bobby Orr. Let’s see Mario score 500 goals in only 575 games (the least number of games to 500), and then proceed to be the fastest to 600 and 700, and 800 goals, too. Let’s see Mario score 1.84 PPG in the playoffs for his career. Let’s see Mario win the 1987 Canada Cup scoring title (and MVP) when they played together for the same team for the same number of games. Let’s see Mario beat Gretzky in head to head competition in goals, assists, and points (and beat Gretzky in points just with his assists alone in these head to head games).
The list goes on...
I did a rough analysis once in my spare time where I put the current league goals per game averages against Gretzky's numbers and concluded that he wouldn't have been as productive (I think 2,024 points vs. 2,857, which he did get). But as you see, he would still be the leading scorer in the history of hockey even if he played the last 20 years rather than 1979-99. He would probably still be considered the greatest ever.
Remember, he put up a point per game on a bad New York Rangers team, at the height of the dead puck era, at age 37.
Of course there's a lot that statistics can't show, and it's not a perfect comparison. But based on that analysis, I think you could make an argument that someone would have to get 2,050 points in today's game or roughly comparable to that to be considered as great an offensive player as Gretzky. That's not the whole story, but no one, not even Crosby or McDavid, is approaching that number.
What about Gordie Howe?
The 1970s and Before wasn't as high scoring as the 80s also. So if one wants to adjust Players ' points in Today's Era then you got to do the same for the Players in the Previous Eras:1940s-1970s
Gretzky is up there but I'm so sick at how they look at just total points. Gretzky played in an era where scoring was super high.
Howe played mostly during the Original Six era where checking was tighter.
Someone did some calculation and showed that the year that Howe got 49 goals in 70 games, when you pro-rate that to the 1980s and 80 games, that's 96 goals. That's more than Gretzky's 92!
Plus, he was also well-rounded. He could play defense, hit, fight... none of those things Gretzky was known to be great at.
For sure, Gretzky's the best playmaker ever.
Gretzky was an amazing player and throughout his career, the only true compatriot to him was Lemieux. That being said those point totals are inflated by virtue of playing in a high scoring league. If Gretzky played today he would score over 100-130 points a season but wouldn't sniff his 80s numbers
Gretzky was already a 100 point player (102 points and 97 points) at age 35 and 36, as a shadow of his former self, in a lower scoring league than today. He scored 90 points at age 37, one season away from retirement. Again - in the dead puck era. I find it hard to believe a prime 25 year old Gretzky wouldn’t destroy his 35-37 year old self.
So I guess a lot of other players scored 50 goals in the first 39 games and had 212 points.
I
@@alelectric2767 - Prior to Gretzky, the fastest ever was Richard and Bossy, both of whom scored 50 in exactly 50 games. And this was in the history of the entire league. Then along comes Gretzky, and beats that number 3 times in a 4 year span, haha (scored 50 in 39, then 50 in 42, and then 50 in 49). Not just that, but in 11 less games the first time. Ridiculous.
@@michaelgriffiths8068 Completely ridiculous. For someone to be the greatest at any sport they have to be ahead of their time. In Gretzky case he was way ahead of it. People can argue about goalie ability and equipments but he’s part of the reason why the goalies changed.
If Kucherov could get 87 Assists in one Season then Gretzky who is the greatest playmaker of all time would get 110+ Assists/Season in today's Era.
No. Just no.
Fun fact. The record for most regular season points in one season not named Wayne or Mario, belongs to a player by the name of Steve. Steve Yzerman.
Reduce the size of goalie equipment
On more than one occasion (3 times), Gretzky not only led the league in scoring with his assists alone, but also simultaneously led the league in goals. Take 1986/87 for example. Scores 62 goals to lead the league just to prove he still could after scoring a ridiculous 163 assists (and “only” 52 goals) the year before. But take away ALL his lead leading 62 goals, and he still wins the Art Ross with his 121 assists alone. Totally nuts. No one else has ever done that before or since. And probably never will.
I don’t think anyone will challenge Gretzky. The only player in today’s game that are even close but yet so far are Crosby, Ovechkin and Mcdavid.
No.
Greatest athlete in sports history.
@Sami Salo that doesn’t mean much, Gretzky DOMINATED like no other, look at the hockey news’s ridiculously dominant stats show how he scored at a rate we may never see again. In terms of North American professional team sports. Gretzky’s stats and accolades carry him over the top.
rewatching some of Gretz highlights, in the time where it was a physical era, he never found himself caught in those compromising 'positions' in order to make plays, but rather I think his laterial skating and ability to pivot, alloted him the ability to make space and plays that made everyone better.
He definately was not the fastest skater, hardest shooter, nor physical - but played a game that I think Gudreau copied, which at the time made him that much better than everyone else in the offensive 3rd.
Gretzky was way too smart for the rest of the league.
He saw the ice like no other. Imagine being a goalie, and Gretzky is coming down the wing. And you NEED to know where everyone else is, because he'd destroy you if you didn't.
If you go off intangibles, Mark Messier also belongs in the conversation. Third all-time in points, six rings (two without Gretzky, who never won it without Mess), and a well-deserved reputation for grit, leadership and clutch play
MR HOCKEY….. was in the Top 5 for points 20 years straight. Never will be done again
Not until a player comes along who so electrifies the sport that it increases like 50% in size and market. Like if the NHL expanded to Europe or Asia because someone was lighting up the league to the point non hockey fans in those markets knew who he was and wanted to watch hockey and interest was enough to have expansion teams in those cities.
If it wasn’t for Gretzky moving to LA, there wouldn’t be teams in Nashville, Dallas, Phoenix, etc. so it would have to be someone who did something similar.
Honestly I think Bobby Orr
It has already happened - his name Bobby Orr - as Milt Schmitz once said put 5 Bobby Orr's on the ice against 5 Howes, 5 Gretzky's, 5 Richards it wouldn't even be close. It's really ridiculous to compare era's in the first place.
If Gretzky never scored a goal he’d still:
Be the all time points leader
Have 11 straight 100 point seasons
Have four scoring titles (without scoring a single a goal!).
And he’s still got more those goal things than everybody too.
You mean like say...Bobby Orr?
When people talk about how the goalies were way worse and the game has changed so much...than why didnt everyone have Gretzky type numbers. When you define greatness you can only look at the context of that era. Gretzky was miles ahead of everyone, domination we have yet to see since. McDavid looks close to it though. The way he skates is so far ahead of the rest of the league its ridiculous. But his IQ, Playmaking, and scoring ability are not way ahead or even the best in the league. Thats why Gretzky's GOAT status is not threatened.
In all honesty, not denying Gretzky's talent and skill, he fed off of poorer teams within his own division and conference for nearly a decade before the big trade....He was also given unprecedented protection from physical abuse and had much more room and time to make plays than would usually be the case...Compare that to the wear and tear that players like Trottier and Yzerman endured, Gretzky had a charmed life on ice....just sayin'.....
I think it is very likely that Gretzky stays the GOAT effectively forever, but I think people should be OK with saying things like Crosby is the greatest of the last 20 years, or in the future say so-and-so is the greatest of the last 50 years. Greatest of all time should be of all time. I see some people say their personal greatest of all time is whoever, and they say older players aren't on the list because they didn't see them play. So just say your guy is the greatest of the last 30 years, or 10 years, or whatever your timespan is.
Then talk about ovi as a goal scorer. You could say there's a bigger gap between ovi and others in this era than there was between Gretzky and others.
I reject your premise. The GOAT wore number 4.
Maybe someday. But not at this moment.
It's very unlikely but possible to pass his goals total but no one is going to come even close to Gretzky's assists total.
Stop with this McDavid stuff. He hasn't done anything but put up numbers. Even his numbers don't match up with what Crosby and ovi were putting up at that age.
adjust gretzky for inflation its pretty easy
Why do you need to adjust Gretzky 's stats for inflation? What a joke! He has MORE ASSISTS than anybody else either had or has TOTAL POINTS. END OF DISCUSSION.
@@goalscorerlajon because goalies were trash back then?? i am well aware of gretzky's stats and no one will ever meet all of them in todays game because back then the average goals per game were so much significantly higher than it is today.
You also need to look at the ear that they played in. Ron Hextall won the the vezina trophy with a gaa of 3.00. 120 points at the end of the season would mostlikely not get you in to the top 10 in the scoring race. So by that alone, no one will likely ever challenge Gretzky's record. I mean he score his 1000th point at the age of 24!!!
Mario Lemieux
Gretzky will be the next Wilt Chamberlain...his brilliance and dominance will fade into legend and neighsayers will just look at the stats and records and just state "well the league wasn't as good back then" (Wilt - NBA wasn't as athletic or Gretzky the goaltender were not as good)
Yet the funny thing is those same people will laud Bossy as being a better “pure” goal scorer than Gretzky even though he played in the exact same era against the same goalies and even though Bossy had a worse GPG average than Gretzky during their time in the league together. They will also laud Lemieux for his 199 point season even though it happened only 3 years after Gretzky’s 215 point season (against the same goalies). The hypocrisy holds no bounds in sports.
Ovi maybe has a chance at goals but Gretz is untouchable other sports have debates like Jordan or Kobe or James that’s not asked in Hockey the Great One is THE GREAT ONE. Super Mario is the only one in contention but the injuries and cancer slowed him down in his prime.
scoring 1000 points in his era was much easier than it is in today’s game lmao
he has 2800 points. and yes, you're right to an extent. But do you realize Gretzky was still playing just 20 years ago right? If it was so easy for everyone to score, why is Gretzky the only NHL player in history to get 200 points in a season, 4 times... If it was so easy others would have done it too.
@@justinpurcell3717 he played in the highest scoring era in history and had a good thing in edmonton. Others may not have put up 200 points but players with less came close. His highest scoring year had 12 others score over 100 points that year. Some years you'd get nearly 30 players with over 40 goals. You'd be lucky to collect twelve 100 point seasons in the last decade. Ovechkins the only one scoring 50.
@@justinpurcell3717 oh and once gretzky left Edmonson he would only score 50 goals once in the next 12 seasons and he never approached 200 points again. He is the greatest of all time but his points were heavily inflated.
It was, but, he's still almost 1000 clear of the next closest guy. That's 10 100 point seasons. LOL.
@@ozzydo2314 But to say he wouldn't be creme of the crop in today's era is stupid ( you could cut his points in half and still have a HOF career). Yea, he definitely won't put up the numbers he did in the 80s but he would still be better than Crosby. He is basically Crosby and Ovechkin combined, he has the best assets of both those players. He can see the ice like Crosby and score like Ovi. I'm actually a caps fan so I'm hype you brought him up lol but if you think Prime Gretzky won't put up over 50 goals you're delusional.
Maybe shane wright. But nhl goalie is so much better in this day and age than gretzky time. It will be hard.
McDavid will never be Gretzky, hell watch him not even be better than Crosby. 3 Stanley cups, gold medals, league mvp, playoff mvps, etc....... McDavid will have to top it off with like 4/5 cups to even be considered better than Crosby. Not to mention, Crosby is the better player overall.
If Crosby hits 1500 and gets one more cup maybe.
anyone saying ovechkin is completely laughable, even on just the goal scoring end.
What's the main thing Gretzky and Orr agree on? that Howe was the greatest player of all time.
Gretzky is the greatest player ever in any sport. Jordan would've had to average like 60pts a game. It's more than points, but he had 4 Cups,& 6 Finals. Plus as Feraro said, the gap is so huge...it's not debatable. If it's close, that's 1 thing. Mcdavid,& Drasaitil aren't remotely close to winning shit. Most of it isn't their fault...it's the GM-bad defense,& goaltending. But those 2 guys don't play both ends. They are kind of a microcosm of their team. Amazing talent,& fabulous to watch...but 1 dimensional,& a bit soft. Disney on Ice Oilers, or Ice capades...
Roberto Clemente is the greatest baseball player all time.
Who said anything about BASEBALL???
@@goalscorerlajon Hayes mentioned baseball, plug. Guess you didn't watch the video before commenting. 2:45
Its gonna come down to how dominate someone is if someone wins 8 harts in a row and 7 art ross and maybe a selke i say definitely his point records are untouchable however
100% impossible...the voters will never vote that way, even if they deserve it!
@@creepyrobsta5509 true.
@@creepyrobsta5509 true, like the voters couldn't let lidström beat Bobby orr in number of norris trophies. Some guys are holy in the eyes of hockey people.
Probably hasn’t born yet. Like you need someone with McDavid Speed, Ovechkin goal scoring ability combined. And someone that can raise the puck
and change the NHL rules to increase scoring
And a new era of goalies who can’t bend their knees
And the playmaking ability of Crosby
Barzal speed, Bossy scoring ability. I fixed it for you because I'm a nice guy!
@@jzimm1075 McDavid is faster 😁👍
The should stop trying to lower standards to create artificial media G.O.A.T. ...
I think Loui Erickson already has
Who?
Never heard of her
He's the most dominant athlete in North American sports ever, period.
If you're talking about Wayne, there's absolutely an argument to be made there. I've felt that way, too, for years. The way he assaulted the NHL individual record books AND played for 4 championship squads is a combination we've not seen much of from any other athlete in any other sport. Including Jordan.
There a good argument to be made but saying there no argument for anyone else period is asinine. Michal Jordan 10x Scoring Titles to Gretz 5x Scoring titles, Jordan 6 FMVP Gretz 2x FMVP, Regular season MVP Gretz has at 9 Jordan 5 albeit a single player can dominate in basketball more than hockey Jordan ran basketball in the Reg and post season
@@aahZeiK 5 scoring titles for gretzky? he has like 10.
@@grizlyspectr5695 Scoring titles are by scoring goals he only has 5 of them in the NBA they don’t combine Points and assists for scoring titles it’s from scoring the basketball ......
@@grizlyspectr5695 Yea lmao he has 10.... and 8 MVPs consecutively, ridiculous. Nobody will ever come close in any sport to that level of dominance.
I saw gretzky play in the Jets arena in 1981, taking on hawerchuk et al... I didnt bother watching the game... Just watched gretz the entire time to see what he did that made him so much better... One example I always remember, he got the puck 5 feet inside the jets blue line... 4 different jets took a stab at either hitting him or knocking him off the puck... He never left an area of a five foot radius, but deked out every obe of those players... Never got touched and the puck never left his stick... Then of course he passed it off and the Oilers scored.... Un-worldly talent...
yep it's one of them situations when, there are loads of super talented players in the nhl, bobby or, gordie how, mario lemiux. but one player always stands above all, like watching Gretzky play was mind boggling.
I'd say if McDavid throws up a few 150 point seasons and wins a few cups, along with all the art ross and mvps...he's already considered the most talented player to enter the NHL and greatest skater ever. He could get there but he has to turn it up even more next several years.
I would say their is already the argument of mcdavid being the most talented play ever. He realistically does almost everything better than anyone else ever. Yah the success isn’t there, but it doesn’t mean it’s his fault
@Jacob Harty yes but I wouldn’t say Gretzky was the best goal scorer ever. He was crazy, but there were better pure scorers than him. Mcdavid doesn’t necessarily need to be the best shooter in the league to be the best, but man, does mcdavid still have a good shot
@@ELias-vn5yv Most talented player ever is not the best player ever.
I love Connor but I have to argue that Mario Lemieux is the greatest talent of all time. The guy was literaly superhuman in is ability to recover from surgery, injuries and cancer. Talent is dominating the league after you miss 42 months of hockey and lose a touch of speed and agility after 2 back surgeries and hip flexor pain.
Still till this day I haven't seen anyone at the level Mario was at even at 60-70 percent health. Insane talent. He made scoring goals look easy even at 35 years old. But, I'll say that Connor is something special.
Gretzky is the greatest passer ever. His passing skill was better than anybody in any era. If he played today, he might not score nearly as much, but he would still lead the league with assists as his teammates get a zillion perfect pass one-timer opportunities.
No one one comes close to the greatest player conversation, but Ovechkin is already the greatest goal scorer of all time, he may not end up with the highest number but with context considered of era's, goalies he is it. He will still end up in second by the time he is done, probably in the low to mid 800's. Then when you consider he's basically missed two and half seasons through no fault of his own, he easily would have it. If you go by his career average and apply it to the seasons he's missed he'd already be over 800 right now.
The only people who could really have challenged Gretzky for best ever were Orr and Lemieux but injuries took them both out early so its impossible to say.
Day 4 of asking them to do a quiz of them pranking Sam telling him every answer he says is correct
My first point: His era had a lot to do with it. Gretzky played against much less fast and powerful players and much weaker goalies. If you took a prime Wayne Gretzky and put him in today’s league I think he would be good but not great.
This brings me to my second point: despite era we all call Gretzky the goat and that’s why people who discredit Bill Russell (NBA) because of his era is disrespectful.
That era argument is just plain stupid. If it was so easy to score goals back then why was gretzky always on top of the table with a comfortable lead? Why did nobody else even get close until that mario kid?
If you brought jean beliveau to 2021 he wouldnt be able to do shit. If you put tobias rieder to the 50s hed propably hit 150 points every season. You shouldnt compare players from diffirent eras DIRECTLY because the younger one will always come out on top in a 1v1. You compare the players to their PEERS and see how they do against them. Rieder is a sack of potatoes compared to other current nhlers while beliveau was miles ahead of his colleagues from 65 years ago.
@@gamergod3378 if you read my second point, I said I think Gretzky is the goat. You can’t argue though that if you put Gretzky in today’s game he wouldn’t have scored near as many points, and if you put McDavid in Gretzky’s era he would have scored 4000 points.
@@puckstopper1937
McDavid wouldn't be McDavid back then. No one worked out or trained or dieted the way they do now back then. Gretzky would be different today too. He'd be bigger, stronger and faster.
@@puckstopper1937 You're all over the place here. How can you say Gretzky is the goat then argue McDavid would have gotten 4000 points? That would make him the goat. You really don't need to talk about what a current player would do then, or what Gretzky would do now. You simply need to understand the context in which Gretzky did his thing which was, until Mario Lemieux came along, winning scoring titles by 60-80 points a year. He was wrapping up scoring titles before February. Grasping that is how you rate the player...
This is one of the most absurd video titles I've ever seen. There's this guy named Bobby Orr. And he is Canadian. Check him out, I think you'll be impressed. In New England he is the GOAT (and Tom Brady).
everyone knows bobby orr but he isn’t near gretzky
@@kweqwequgtweqfq4694 Everyone does not know that. Orr doesn't compare to Gretzky in points (no one does) or longevity, but does in talent. And with the exception of Babe Ruth in baseball 100 years ago, no one in sports in the U.S. has so revolutionized his like Orr did. Before Orr, there were only a handful of indoor rinks in all of New England, which has a population about the same size as Ontario. Now there are several hundred. Before Orr, in the 1960s, there was one American in the NHL; now it's about 25%. There are kids now in New England wearing Orr jerseys, whose forty-something fathers are too young to have seen Orr play. (I can't imagine hockey will ever be the most popular sport in the U.S. like in Canada, but in some northern American towns it is.) And what does Orr think about his legacy? It's hard to say; he's the most over-the-top humble person I can think of.
Gretzky basically made the NHL a viable league in North America. Therefore, he is the best.
By virtue of Wayne agreeing to a trade to Los Angeles, a then-struggling franchise in the continent's second-largest market, the game expanded to places where it had never been more than a curiosity, and the number of kids playing hockey in places like California exploded. As a result the talent pool got much deeper, and the game we see now is played at a much higher level. Wayne's contributions to the game went far beyond revolutionizing the game with his unique style and re-writing the record book
@@devilsadvocacy
FACTS!!! The combination of his achievements, contributions and impact are immeasurable. We've never seen anything else like it from another superstar pro athlete. MAYBE Pele. But, that didn't work out as well for NASL in the '70's as what Wayne did in the '80's for NHL.
have u SEEN my NHL 21 be a pro?
Sure... if someone comes along with twice as many points as anyone else for 10 years, then you can use their name in the same sentence as the Great One or the Magnificent one. Or if another defenseman comes along and wins the scoring title, beating all forwards. Otherwise forget it.
The closest any one was ever to Gretzky was Mario Lemieux he was the one that truly had a chance against Gretzky’s records but because of his terrible injury’s and cancer he didn’t have the chance. Modern day so far the closest was Crosby but he still fell short. Mcdavid has a chance but I don’t think he’s going to be the goat
The era a player plays in makes a difference.. You have 4th liners scoring 50 points in the 80's... You have to look at more than pure points.
Really dude?
@@andygibbersony You have that shitty username an you say really?
Look at the Panthers of 2022, 50 point 3rd, 4th liners....
In my eyes for someone to be better than Gretzky in todays hockey, they would have to put up consistently 65-75 goals every season and have at least 150+ points.
Gretzky played in an era where goalies still drank beer and didn't make constant use of the butterfly or hybrid goalie styles. Most of them were still standing up. Gretzky couldn't rack up near the same amount of points in the modern era.
the thing is he redefined how people play today. if there's no Gretzky there's no ovi, sid or mcdavid
Some old guy tried to tell me that the goalies where just as good back then than I just laughed and said stats don’t lie. This was this summer buddy was loaded. still funny asf to me though😂😂
So why didn't everybody score 92 goals or 215 points? Why only him?
That doesn't explain why everyone was miles behind him in his own era. His best season he scored 74 points more than the second placed player in scoring for crying out loud. "Goalies we're shit." isn't a legit argument because everyone faced the same goalies.
If someone comes up with a percentage based system where it shows how much better the best player is than the second,third and so forth . Its not pure points numbers its how far ahead of their peers in their era they are
Ovi won't ever be Gretzky, most do want to see him pass the GOAT tho. If hockey wants to see the goal record broken one last time, gr8 is the only person left, and he knows it. I def wouldn't underestimate him or say he's screwed noobles.
Ovi is done dude need like 6 or 7 seasons scoring 40+ to even reach it with two shortent seasons and he's what 36 now I just dont see a way he can pass it
noobles
@@harrisonsmith5983
He's 35 now and currently sitting at 707 goals. Including this season, he can do it over the next 8 years by scoring 25 goals a year. Verrrrrrrrrry doable for him.
@@MrJordwalk no way he plays 8 more years lmao
@@MrJordwalk I just dont see him playing another 8 years at that high of a level. There's a reason why father time is undefeated
some Gretzky fun facts...he did that in every league he ever played in. His one year in the OHL , with Sault Ste Marie, his points that year still stands as the record. Almost 50 years later. You gotta understand, his first 3 years in the NHL, when he was destroying those records, the old guard of the NHL absolutely HATED HIM AND THAT TEAM. The Oilers played a very wide open "European" style of hockey...their uniforms were very "European" looking, especially those goofy JOFA helmets they all wore. Plus they were a WHA cast off team that merged into the NHL...that annoyed alot of people back then. He broke Espositos goal record by 16 goals!!!....broke Bobby Orrs assist record his second year at 19. The Oilers got so good when there were off setting penalties and it was 4 on 4, that the league actually changed that rule to slow the Oilers down...when there were offsetting penalties, it just stayed 5 on 5, thats how pissed they were about what they were doing. There was no cable back then..no ESPN...some of the games wernt even televised locally in Edmonton then...only way you found out what he was doing was to read the box score in the next days paper becuase they were on Mountain time...youd read what he was doing and just think "WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON IN WESTERN CANADA?"...Sports Illustrated Sportmans of the year..A.P. Athlete of the Decade..it was an amazing time...he no doubt saved that league...
There is no other athlete in ANY other sport that will EVER be as far ahead of everyone else as Wayne Gretzky. I'm a little too young to have seen him in his prime, but all you need to do is look at the stats...and the CLIPS!.....Gretzky was NOT a speedster, he was NOT a hitter, he was not any of those particular things people point too. Then thing with Gretzky and why he will ALWAYS be the greatest player is this: He had a supernatural ability to anticipate where the play was GOING to be 3 seconds from now. Gretzky made plays like he could see three seconds into the future. It was otherworldly. Not Micheal Jordan, not Babe Ruth not....whoever is a big deal in Football.....will EVER be so far ahead of everyone else in his sport as Gretzky was.....Gretzky was borderline supernatural. Nobody can ever learn to do what he did, because he DID have some kind of special "Mojo" that no other player in ANY SPORT has ever had.......Gretzky isn't only the greatest hockey player of all time. He is the highest achiever in his sport of all time, no one in any other sport has ever come close.....it is still not known how he was able to do the things he did, because the things he did.....quite honestly, shouldn't have been possible. But there will NEVER be another Gretzky.....and people should just get over it.....There's Gretzky.....and then let's argue about #2 and #3
If you watch one of Gretzkys old games from the 80s, then watch McDavid play you will see how ridiculous it is to compare the two
Yeah you will see how much better Gretzky is
Yeah u will see how shit the goalies were compared to today
@@Nicolai488 Gretzky would still be as dominant if he was trained the same also like nowadays
What would be ridiculous is if you gave McDavid Gretzky’s heavy wooden Titan stick and his lumbering skates and equipment, and took away all his modern no touch rules and no two line off sides. Or give Gretzky all of McDavid’s equipment, training and rules in the 80s. Yes, then bring it on....
@@harrisonsmith5983 Gretzky does not play better than McDavid. Is that his fault of course not. It was completely impossible for that to happen and that's why you can't compare them
The 86-87 season was the most dominant season Wayne Gretzky had. Look at the scoring leaders for that year and compare it to the 21-22 season. The top 20 scores are very similar in stats. Now picture McDavid scoring 196 points. That’s how many he would’ve needed to have outpaced the league the same Gretzky did.
How’s this for a stat.. in the 80s Gretzky scored 1842 points in 768 games the next best player was Peter Stastny who scored 1059 in 749 games... Gretzky scored 73.9 or 74 percent more points than the next best player in the league... in the 90s jagr scored 6 percent more points than the next best player and Gretzky was still better In the 90s in volume per game points. In the 2000s Thornton scored 13 percent more than Iginla ... Gretkzy was 74 percent better than his peers, nobody other than Gretzky has broken 20 percent better than his peers... period
Auston Taylour Matthews
Lol
People are always going to compare eras and say Gretzky era was garbage.
They said the same of Bobby Orr.
Stats are stats and you can’t “fake” those numbers and chalk it up to “inferior” play.
Was Gretzky supposed to not try as hard because the opposition couldn’t check him.
Goalies today are overrated. The equipment is twice as large as it was in his era.
Nobody. NOBODY will touch Gretzky. Conversation OVER. Move on.
Orr is the GOAT defenceman; Gretzsky is the GOAT forward. It's apples and oranges, you can't compare them!
Mcdavid is way better, Wayne played in a joke Of a league the goalies were awfull every game was 5+ goals a night
Yes Milan lucic
His scoring numbers will never be broken.. I mean look at Ovechkin, probably the best scorer ever, and he still needs like 5 seasons of 40 goals average to even sniff Waynes record.
That being said, just watch the competition he played against. The average NHL player nowdays is so much better than back then. Don't even get me started on goalies.
Sure Gretzky was great, and he was SO MUCH BETTER than his competition, but if you put him in todays NHL, i'm pretty sure his numbers would drop considerably - probably around 1500 pts for career which is still great, but no way no how he would be able to score nearly 100 goals a season against todays defenses. Not happening.
If the Goalies were so bad how come nobody (Apart from Gretzky) got more than 108 points in the 86-87 Season? Gretzky 183 points. Kucherov got 128 a few years ago. Only1500 for Gretzky! LOL. Crosby has 1400 and he led the league in Assists only once. Gretzky 16x leading Assist Man.
Goat? lmao. Mario LEMIEUX
Right now. You can put Crosby and Ovi’s Career points together and you still are 300 points behind gretzky
Dif era
@@AntVandy sure, different era, but they also weren't as dominant as Gretzky. You can add Brett Hull and Guy Lafleur's career points (essentially from the same era as Gretzky) together and are still more than 100 points behind Gretzky.
Unless Jagar plays until he 50 and wins 2-3 cups....but realistically Lemieux and Ovechkin healthy careers might have passed Gretzky but highly doubtful now unless NHL rules help increase scoring.
5:10 BECAUSE THE NHL WAS 75% CANADIAN. In the 80s Canada only had 20-25 million people.
Gretzky is ONE of the GOATS. NHL is waaaaay harder today because the talent pool is larger therefore harder to climb.
Plus there's a salary cap. Mcdavid is great but that's 12.5mil on 1 player. I'd rather have 2 Patrice Bergeron's at 6-7mil each.
the equivalent of getting 215 points today would be getting 150-160
.......no
and mcdavid was on pace to do that this year.
Iam pretty sure the equivalent would be 215
Gretzky destroyed your stats and now your trying to find a way out of it. Good luck with that!
you will never get someone regarded as better, watch clips of the defense and goalies vs gretzky, they basically werent playing hockey, that will never happen again
Gretzky retired with over 2800 points, which means you'd have to get 100 points a season for 28 years to tie him
And next closest guy is a hall of fame career in stats behind him. A little under 1000 points behind..LOL
An even if you averaged 143 points a season for 20 years you’d still be behind him lol
You have to adjust for era. Every sport gets better as time goes on. Same reason it's ridiculous to compare bill russell to lebron
If McDavid averages 1.5 pts a game and wins 5+ cups then yes
I been watching NHL for 40 years and i never heard anyone - media or friends argue that one player is better than another cuz he had more points. I think noodles is making that up. Gretzky was just on another level when it came to stats plus he won cups yet i still have heard more people choose Orr or Lemieux over gretzky as greatest ever. Its just hard to argue against the insane rate he put up points and how recognized he was outside of Canada and outside of hockey
There is literally no argument for Lemieux over Gretzky. Even defensively. Gretzky even beats him in plus/minus by a huge margin, both in season and career. Both in regular season and playoffs. And Gretzky demolishes Lemieux in even strength points per game average, even in the playoffs when it counted the most.
Mikko Koskinen has more points this year then Gretzky so I’d say he’s the goat 🐐
Okay, thats a good one. Oilers suck!
His records won’t be broken because they’re IMPOSSIBLE to be broken. For fucks sakes, a hard pass on the ice was a highlight reel goal back in the day. Quit talking about his unattainable records.
lol...a highlight reel goal was a solid pass on the ice. Goalies were horrendous back then. not gonna lie.
Gretzky is the greatest player of his ERA Mcdavid would put up 5000 points a season back then
how about those garbage goalies in the 80s and 90s? pretty sure that helped gretzky out a lot
Look, I like tsn but if you are over the age of 10, and thats generous, noone should ever take you seriously on anything if you call yourself noodles or o-dog.
Any 4th liner who can raise the puck
If Mario couldn't do it (not by his lack of ability to do so) no one will
I played against Mario when I was 14 at a tournament. We were the best team in Ontario (Nats) - he was on a team that came from Quebec. He scored 6 goals against us in the 1st period. He was a giant. I played D. He's a Right shot. He would come down the Leftwing, let go of the stick with his right hand, put the puck on his left side, holding the stick with only his left hand, it was miles away from you, and he would take his right hand, put it on your shoulder and just throw you out of the way, bring the puck back in, and then beat the goalie to the far post and put it in the top of the net - every time. Mario was a savage.
@@wallstreetoneil Jesus lord thats demoralizing for sure, i can only imagine how terrifying it was for you when you saw him jump over the bench for a shift and you happen to be on the ice lol thats crazy!
Never, the game isnt the same anymore
Pretty easy to adjust individual points per era. Look at the goals per game per team during Gretzky's prime, it was around 3.9 goals per game, now look at the goals per game of the player you
e comparing them to and do the math accordingly.
In 2021-2022 McDavid had 44 goals & 123 points in 80 games - that season had an average of 3.14 goals per game per team. So now adjust it to 3.9 goals per game (early 80s). The math is easy - 3.9/3.14 = 1.24 (that's how much you have to multiply mcdavid's totals by). So McDavid would have had 55 goals & 153 points in 80 games at the scoring rate of the early 80s. Not really close to Gretzky's 80+ goals 200+ points now is it?
Bobby orr
Ray's point was spot on
I think its gonna be Ovi. he could play 5 or 6 more years if he wanted to. also its taking a world wide pandemic to slow him down XD.
One dimensional players are never the best!
ovi isnt even top 2 from his time, he is only better than geno and sid at 1 thing
Nobody else can even be considered until they score 50 goals in 38 games.
easier to score back then
@@Flashyfinancier entirely untrue. NHL goals per season averages trend only up since Gretzky’s era.
@@markoutwithmark lies
Not true! Lemieux and Orr better than Gretzky! In 1982 NHL 8 goals per game! Do easy to score! Goalies were bad and small! Ovechkin ERA 5,3-6 goals per game! So much difficult to score! In 1980s Gretzky's time 90% NHL players were from Canada only! Now under 60% of the NHL players from Canada! The Soccer game 250 million players! Gretzky's Canada only 650000 hockey players! That means The Soccer All Stars would beat Gretzky easily 100 game series 93-7! Soccer 4 billion fans around World! Cricket 2 billion fans! Gretzky played only against players from Canada! Can not be the greatest!
In a time where goalies were not as good as they are now