4:40 I’m not a engineer or anything but I would assume when you have it set to 32 that with the handles closed you would want it to be just smaller then 32 so that you not bottoming out the pliers so all the force goes into whatever your squeezing and not into the handles hitting each other
My 86 03 250 ( 1 week old) is the "dipped" handle style with the nickel finish in the new design. I believe the 86 is the tool #, the 03 is the finish #, and the 250 is the length in mm.
The second pair of numbers tends to be handle type, or at least the last of them. Mine is 86 05 250 and it has "comfort grips" (red&blue) and the same serrated thinner shape as the "new one" here, but with chrome colour. It goes to 52 mm. Size difference and shapes would suggest generational change. Regardless, my guess is these are two different models, as suggested by different handles, and consequently, numbers. The finishes on metal have changed in other pliers according to the handles before, esp. VDE (X6) vs CG (X5). For example 13 76 200 vs 13 72 200 or grippy "skinny dip" vs shiny: 87 01 250 vs 87 03 250.
I'd say regardless of the larger capacity, the maintenance free nickel finish, thicker casting, and dipped handles make it my choice. I have a thing for top notch quality tools. Thanks to this videos Creator for explaining the differences so well. I am now a Suscriber. We all know how scarce intelligent people are getting nowadays ( obviously, smiles )
@@zbnmth No, you can't. In order to cut weight without cutting strength, you have to chose another grade of steel - Knipex assure, they in fact did add strenght. So don't grind your old ones down, they'll be weaker afterwards.
@@werner.x Yes, it is possible to cut weight without sacrificing strength while using the same material. It’s called mass optimization. Imagine taking a stick and bending it in half until it breaks. The highest stress will be in the middle of the stick while the ends where you hold will experience very little stress. Next time, you could whittle the ends thinner and when you go to bend it, if it still breaks in the middle then you didn’t sacrifice strength by whittling. Continue until the ends are so thin that it actually breaks there. At that point you will be close to the optimized design.
Also, the weight was never an issue to me. I suspect that this is a test to see if people prefer one color over another. I like dark colors too, but for this tool, I like the chrome look and the smooth handles. The pebbled grain does add texture, but it’s a lot easier to wipe down the smooth version. If the old version goes on sale, I would definitely stock up on some!
You always can buy a chrome version, if you prefer that. And different handle coverings - but not the simple smooth dipped one any more, i think. But i like a lot, that they extended the range, this was really a concern - because the 250 size just has the perfect pressure ratio in my opinion and now finally you can really use it on plumbing - i don't like the XL plier so much in that point - a bit to bulky and much worse pressure ratio - but maybe the newer XL has improved pressure ratio, i din't know.
As of December 2020 I was still able to find the old-style version - a very well made tool and a good investment. Because the jaw faces remain parallel, I use it primarily for pressing in roll pins.
I think the old style is still available in all sizes, I don't think they are stopping production of the heavier, chromed version. I get the idea the black one is the budget version. I'm buying knipex because my arthritis has forced me to buy more ergonomic tools, and the wider handles on the new version is a no-no for me. Thanks for highlighting this in your review.
Thanks so much for this great comprehensive video! Sometimes change is not always for the better and your video and the great responses from your viewers confirm that. The original "trouble-free" design and finish are not reflected into the new design. I literally just purchased this set of pliers on Amazon right after I watched your video. I did't want to wait and have a vendor take advantage of the same "old part number" and interchange the "newer" wrench which may possibly be inferior. Thanks again.
GTR, I just got the new chrome 10" plier wrench today in the mail. Mine has the dipped handle covers. And yes I think I like the new grip profile. And you are correct the printed scale seems to be aimed at the wide open end of the handle stork , which I do not think I like, I think I would have aimed for the middle of the handle stork range. An yes by the way the jaw plastic protector do snap on the jaw, so that explains why the jaws have that pad shape on the sides.
Having a mix of textured and smooth pliers, it is an easy way to feel which one im grabbing. So to tell the new one apart from cobras, I bought one with the two compound handles.
Really excellent review. Every other review I've seen says they are identical except for finish. I think I'm gonna get the 7.5" black oxide one and a 10" Cobra.
I've got a 3 piece set of these from approximately the time you would have posted this. I never paid that close attention to them. My set must have been right in the middle of the transition. My 12" appears to be the old style, but the 10" and 7-1/4" are new style (but still chrome, smooth plasti-dip-type handles). Thanks for the review, years later!
@@rickyperkins232 I literally just got mine in today when I got home. I’m a service plumber too and ordered the 3 pack of cobras and pliers wrench and the 2 set with the pouch to daily carry 6” pliers wrench and 5” cobra. Any saved trip to the van is a blessing
If it may be of service to anyone I believe the model with the bent handles (to allow one to get closer to walls without touching them) apparently uses the old model of the tool, no laser printing, extra meat in the places where it was removed and 46mm max opening :) thanks for pointing it out btw I am getting the bent handles model especially because of your video 👍
Marketing, it’s all about the Marketing Department. People always need to have the latest and greatest so when sales of a particular product stagnates Marketing comes up with “a design change” to increase sales. Hopefully I’ll have the money soon to purchase the old style. The Wisemen (marketing) should of began pimping these in time for Christmas.
I noticed the red grips are backwards too. The top is longer on one, and on the other the bottom is longer. I also noticed on the Cobras, some have even length grips and some have a short bottom grip. Just an observation. Still love Knipex.
I have small hands and already have trouble with some tool's handles. Looks like this is another tool that wouldn't work well for my hands. I just spent a bunch of money on other Christmas stuff and such so looks like I may not be getting a pliers wrench after all.
@@GermanToolReviews That's the only thing I can think of as well, personally I wouldn't bother because as it had been demonstrated already, you only need to apply force on the moving handle to get a good grip just like on the Cobra.
I always thought the handle pinch issue was due to not setting the pivot point correctly so that the handles are too close when the jaw is closed. It seems like that problem should be possible with the newer version too. Over the years I have experienced tight situations where I needed the handles to be close together to accomplish the task. The ability to have close handles also enables pinching if not set correctly.
The black oxide was probably used to save money. However black oxide adds only microns to final dimensions and is very predictable, predictably almost nothing, so it is easier to achieve closer tolerances if there were any close tolerance dimensions anywhere.
More than 5 years later I just purchsed the old version of 400 mm pliers wrench (Würth edition). Never thought it would be so much bigger than the 300 mm. BTW why has this channel been closed?
The chrome version is generally lighter than the black one.. I just checked the new version of both against each other.. the handle being the slick plastic might make a bit of a difference, but honestly don’t think so Difference of both 180 versions was ~30gram It might just be the chrome on the steel, or maybe they use different steel on the chrome in general
I actually found the new version in a Home Depot and I gotta say I actually really like the feel of the new ones better. I guess it's cause my fingers are longer, so I assume the designers at knipex on average have long fingers too.
those are not "new" and "old" versions, it's the 8601250 atramentized vresion and the 8603250 chrome plated first two characters define the tool type: 86 - plier type third character is the jaw type: 0 - straight jaw fourth is the finish: 3 - chrome plated / 1 - atramentized fitfth to seventh characters define the length: 250 - length in mm
Now I’m confused on which ones to purchase I just ordered a set of the 7 inch plier wrench and cobras and I believe there the new black versions I hope there just as good as the old version????
32=32 when the pliers are still very slightly open and therefore able to squeeze and grip, not hard up against the stop where it can't squeeze because it's at the limit of travel.
I have the newer black oxide version. I love them except for the now-increased handle grip gap (handles spread farther apart). This does not work well with my smaller hands. Cosmetically, I prefer the black oxide but, functionally, I wish Knipex would decrease the new grip gap to allow a more controlled "ratcheting action".
Is there greater leeway jaw opening (for a given notch position) on the new ones compared to the old? This would allow for easier and quicker ratcheting. If you could measure for both the old and new, that'd be great. I think the new is 6mm, though that could be for the 7" version of the pliers. ***EDIT***: Found out that the new 7" pliers have almost a millimetre more travel for a given notch setting. That doesn't sound like a lot, but it makes ratcheting easier or even possible with bigger nuts.
The chroming on the old model isn't that great. Some of it chipped off on mine. Offering a black finish option wouldn't be a bad thing. The same goes with adding size markings and making it lighter without sacrificing strength. That being said, the wider gap between the handles makes it harder to hold both handles in one hand like a standard adjustable wrench when the handles have to be partially open. That can get annoying and I might order some other sizes to supplement my 10" pliers wrench early to make sure I get the old style.
Mine has a few rust spots that came through the finish. That being said it's still the best wrench I've ever used. Will never part with it and would like to see this still being sold next to the new one Idk it is kinda a shame. Why fix something people loved and wasn't broken?
I'm not positive, but have heard the second & third digits of Knipex part/model numbers refer to the handle grip type. Don't have time to look it up now, but seem to recall that info buried deep within the Knipex website. For the record, I know a tool truck guy who prefers carrying the rough plastic Knipex grips... says they mitigate returns as the impossible to clean textured material rapidly becomes filthy & thus un-returnable with little if any use. Same deal with a lot of other soft handle & over-molded tools/products that are now so common. Also, assuredly the weight reduction has to do with money... less raw material per unit, probably easier/cheaper to forge & machine, reduced shipping costs and who knows what all else. No matter what they say, it's always about money.
I've watched this video a few times now on separate viewings and I kind of prefer the new ones now. The handles are further apart, but that's most evident at the widest jaw opening, which the older one cannot reach. At the more closed jaw positions the difference is negligible and I reckon IRL would not be too noticeable. Also, someone mentioned pinch-prevention. Hmm...
GTR, I ask two questions. One, so far I noticed that Knipex prefers to use the soft handle for the oxide finish and the other for chrome finish instead of giving the soft handle for new products. Can you confirm this? Second, if you set the size right, I believe you can use the tool by only pushing the moving jaw handle and not having to squeeze both. Did you try it? I'm curious what you think.
Man I really wish you would do a new comparison video on these. I'm fascinated and really want to get a pair, but I'm not sure what to get. Now they have comfort grips, and I'm under the impression they have 3 different finishes now. Chrome, black ox, and nickel?
i got the chrome 180m tonight. idk if im being picky but theres a ton of play in the lower jaw and when fully closed its offset from the top. also the lever seems to stick the more i open the jaws.
I love Knipex. I have to say though, based on what the changes to the handles seem to be, I don't think it's a very smart decision on their part. The grips are further apart and worst of all, the handles are thinner which is not a plus in my opinion when applying lots of squeezing force. If anyone is like me, when I really need to squeeze pliers, I want a thicker handle that wont dig into my hands.
So I live in Oregon and prefer the chrome version of the pliers wrenches and also the cobras. Do you think it even matters with these new models and new production dated tools that appear to have a better bluing to them & you certain they will discontinue the chrome versions fully? That means 5-7 different sizes to make... Have you seen the 15 degree bent handle pliers wrenches? They Look like a great tool for being close to a surface. Thank you for the content, I just watched the re chroming video more videos like those would be GREAT! I watch A LOT of ScoutCrafter who is a great toolsmith, I think you two would be able to come up with some great content if you shared something with him and vice versa.
They have only announced the new versions for the 250mm (10") line. I think the other sizes have remained unchanged at this point (125, 150, 180, 300). Haven't tried the 15 degree versions yet.
For those of you old enough, take a step back to the 80s and imagine seeing a pair of pliers that looked like these. While aesthetics don't make for functionality, these things look like a prop out of a sci fi movie. I like the looks and concept of both, but the price is an inhibitor for me - not a mechanic, just a DIY with limited budget and a tried and true set of Channel Locks!
Buying from the German amazon one pliers wrench costs just as much as a 11 piece set of mid quality spanners. And with those you are stuck to 11 specific tools while this provides a larger range as well as ratcheting action, I see no competition here.
Just got a set in today. Also,checked on their site and it looks like that the 10in is only one that was updated, everything is the same......does anyone know why???
Btw, Knipex must have two chrome sources because it has always bugged me that some of my pliers wrenches have a blue hue and others a gold hue. Why don't they work on that quality control aspect instead of ruining a perfect design?
Rob R. KNIPEX Tools KNIPEX 86 03 250 SBA Pliers Wrench, www.amazon.com/dp/B005EXOK22/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_mgX3EbH1BR5YV I got it on sale at Home Depot a couple days ago.
RhinoAg awesome thank you that’s what I figured from pictures I saw online. I ended up ordering the 3piece plier/wrench set in nickel/chrome and interested to see if knipex updated the 10” in that combo set. May also order the comfort grips too and see if I prefer those Thanks
I will stay with the chromed and thicker model. Personally that one has enough of flex. Can only imagine how much flex the new one has. Cost does not mean everything.
Jaw slack? You’re supposed to adjust them so it feels like you’re crushing the nut/bolt as you squeeze the handles. There is no slack when you’re using them as intended.
Probably wont get an answer here but worth trying, any car mechanics either professionally or on hobby basis who has any say about this tool? I'm thinking of getting one and I'm curious if I should look for the old/new one. :)
I was thinking that too - those knurled sections on the new ones would get packed with grease if you used them on dirty stuff and be a lot harder to clean off.
As the saying goes, "dont reinvent the wheel". The old version that I have and have used extensively I'd great. I love them. It appears they are trying to save money NOT improving their previous design. Buy the old version.
I don’t agree. I believe the new design is better. I found the old handles less comfortable, and the new jaws are better. A better quality steel allow thinner parts.
i thing preaple got blister from the handels bing to close toghether and that is why they canged it. i like the change but i will allways buy chromed over everyting
@@axtra92 They were selling the chromed version in a store I went too and the entire thing was completely rusted. I'm not sure how they managed that, but someone screwed up bad. They were still trying to sell it for $35 even though it looked like it belonged in my grandpas toolbox. On the otherhand the one I have hasn't rusted, and I've used it for some plumbing work, so I guess as long as you make sure to wipe it down there shouldn't be an issue.
@@iamfuckingyourwaifuandther2743 mines got a few rust speckles on it but not terrible. I can't tell you how many tools like that I've seen at shows being sold for full price. 😂
The lower weight shows what modern engineering can do with computer simulations. I'm willing to bet they did FEA on the pliers to figure out where they could remove material without sacrificing any strength.
I am stoked for your plierswrench comparison vid. I know this is GERMAN tool reviews, but it would be great if you could get a pair of the new irwin pliers wrenches to add to the mix.
Should get the bent handle version of the old stock, come in real handie! OH HEY BIRD!! Hows the Blindviews! =) check out my vids buddy Im gonna get better this year with my tube stuff. =)
The alligator are more slip-joint style like a channelock, the cobra have a push button on the side with a very fine adjustment count. Cobras will not shift their position if opened fully or dropped, but the alligator (or slip-joint style) need to open fully to adjust. Also lower count of opening position increments on the alligators when compared to cobra. It's all preference and feel.
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4:40 I’m not a engineer or anything but I would assume when you have it set to 32 that with the handles closed you would want it to be just smaller then 32 so that you not bottoming out the pliers so all the force goes into whatever your squeezing and not into the handles hitting each other
Never overestimate "modern" engineers.
My 86 03 250 ( 1 week old) is the "dipped" handle style with the nickel finish in the new design. I believe the 86 is the tool #, the 03 is the finish #, and the 250 is the length in mm.
The second pair of numbers tends to be handle type, or at least the last of them. Mine is 86 05 250 and it has "comfort grips" (red&blue) and the same serrated thinner shape as the "new one" here, but with chrome colour. It goes to 52 mm. Size difference and shapes would suggest generational change. Regardless, my guess is these are two different models, as suggested by different handles, and consequently, numbers. The finishes on metal have changed in other pliers according to the handles before, esp. VDE (X6) vs CG (X5). For example 13 76 200 vs 13 72 200 or grippy "skinny dip" vs shiny: 87 01 250 vs 87 03 250.
I'd say regardless of the larger capacity, the maintenance free nickel finish, thicker casting, and dipped handles make it my choice. I have a thing for top notch quality tools. Thanks to this videos Creator for explaining the differences so well. I am now a Suscriber. We all know how scarce intelligent people are getting nowadays ( obviously, smiles )
Definitely like using the older ones better because of the handles coming closer together but I like that they cut weight where they could
If you're brave you could cut that weight yourself ;P
@@zbnmth
No, you can't.
In order to cut weight without cutting strength, you have to chose another grade of steel - Knipex assure, they in fact did add strenght.
So don't grind your old ones down, they'll be weaker afterwards.
@@werner.x Yes, it is possible to cut weight without sacrificing strength while using the same material. It’s called mass optimization. Imagine taking a stick and bending it in half until it breaks. The highest stress will be in the middle of the stick while the ends where you hold will experience very little stress. Next time, you could whittle the ends thinner and when you go to bend it, if it still breaks in the middle then you didn’t sacrifice strength by whittling. Continue until the ends are so thin that it actually breaks there. At that point you will be close to the optimized design.
Also, the weight was never an issue to me. I suspect that this is a test to see if people prefer one color over another. I like dark colors too, but for this tool, I like the chrome look and the smooth handles. The pebbled grain does add texture, but it’s a lot easier to wipe down the smooth version. If the old version goes on sale, I would definitely stock up on some!
You always can buy a chrome version, if you prefer that. And different handle coverings - but not the simple smooth dipped one any more, i think. But i like a lot, that they extended the range, this was really a concern - because the 250 size just has the perfect pressure ratio in my opinion and now finally you can really use it on plumbing - i don't like the XL plier so much in that point - a bit to bulky and much worse pressure ratio - but maybe the newer XL has improved pressure ratio, i din't know.
Come back German Tool Reviews. We miss you.
As of December 2020 I was still able to find the old-style version - a very well made tool and a good investment. Because the jaw faces remain parallel, I use it primarily for pressing in roll pins.
I think the old style is still available in all sizes, I don't think they are stopping production of the heavier, chromed version. I get the idea the black one is the budget version. I'm buying knipex because my arthritis has forced me to buy more ergonomic tools, and the wider handles on the new version is a no-no for me. Thanks for highlighting this in your review.
I appreciate the 20% weight deduction when working in the cabinet!
Thanks so much for this great comprehensive video! Sometimes change is not always for the better and your video and the great responses from your viewers confirm that. The original "trouble-free" design and finish are not reflected into the new design. I literally just purchased this set of pliers on Amazon right after I watched your video. I did't want to wait and have a vendor take advantage of the same "old part number" and interchange the "newer" wrench which may possibly be inferior. Thanks again.
Love your videos and miss your contents man, when are you coming back?
GTR, I just got the new chrome 10" plier wrench today in the mail. Mine has the dipped handle covers. And yes I think I like the new grip profile. And you are correct the printed scale seems to be aimed at the wide open end of the handle stork , which I do not think I like, I think I would have aimed for the middle of the handle stork range. An yes by the way the jaw plastic protector do snap on the jaw, so that explains why the jaws have that pad shape on the sides.
hmmm. I'd think I'd prefer the smaller handle on the old one.
just bought 86 05 250T and absolutely pleased with them.
Having a mix of textured and smooth pliers, it is an easy way to feel which one im grabbing. So to tell the new one apart from cobras, I bought one with the two compound handles.
Really excellent review. Every other review I've seen says they are identical except for finish. I think I'm gonna get the 7.5" black oxide one and a 10" Cobra.
Miss his great videos
I've got a 3 piece set of these from approximately the time you would have posted this. I never paid that close attention to them. My set must have been right in the middle of the transition. My 12" appears to be the old style, but the 10" and 7-1/4" are new style (but still chrome, smooth plasti-dip-type handles). Thanks for the review, years later!
Glad I got a pretty complete set in the old style while I could.
lucky, I just found out about this today when I finally decided to get the the 12"
So after over a year use, which do you like now?
There is at least 3 versions. As I own 3. The fit and finish on the 1st version is the best. Made around 2007 I believe.
Would you recommend these pliers for harsh use such as in plumbing?
@@rickyperkins232 I literally just got mine in today when I got home. I’m a service plumber too and ordered the 3 pack of cobras and pliers wrench and the 2 set with the pouch to daily carry 6” pliers wrench and 5” cobra. Any saved trip to the van is a blessing
If it may be of service to anyone I believe the model with the bent handles (to allow one to get closer to walls without touching them) apparently uses the old model of the tool, no laser printing, extra meat in the places where it was removed and 46mm max opening :) thanks for pointing it out btw I am getting the bent handles model especially because of your video 👍
Marketing, it’s all about the Marketing Department. People always need to have the latest and greatest so when sales of a particular product stagnates Marketing comes up with “a design change” to increase sales. Hopefully I’ll have the money soon to purchase the old style. The Wisemen (marketing) should of began pimping these in time for Christmas.
Ecactly!
And downgrading the quality for a higher price
anyway knipex have one of the best tools on market. Is it expensive? yes! but it is worth it!
I noticed the red grips are backwards too. The top is longer on one, and on the other the bottom is longer. I also noticed on the Cobras, some have even length grips and some have a short bottom grip. Just an observation. Still love Knipex.
I have small hands and already have trouble with some tool's handles. Looks like this is another tool that wouldn't work well for my hands. I just spent a bunch of money on other Christmas stuff and such so looks like I may not be getting a pliers wrench after all.
Handles further apart to prevent pinching? I've crushed my hands numerous times using the old style one handed
Could be, really didn't think about that aspect.
@@GermanToolReviews That's the only thing I can think of as well, personally I wouldn't bother because as it had been demonstrated already, you only need to apply force on the moving handle to get a good grip just like on the Cobra.
I always thought the handle pinch issue was due to not setting the pivot point correctly so that the handles are too close when the jaw is closed. It seems like that problem should be possible with the newer version too. Over the years I have experienced tight situations where I needed the handles to be close together to accomplish the task. The ability to have close handles also enables pinching if not set correctly.
So what is better
@@harrymcough5545 Old is gold. Always and in everything.
Great comparison. Glad i watched your video before buying the new ones. And I'm glad I've got three pair of the "old" style...
The black oxide was probably used to save money. However black oxide adds only microns to final dimensions and is very predictable, predictably almost nothing, so it is easier to achieve closer tolerances if there were any close tolerance dimensions anywhere.
More than 5 years later I just purchsed the old version of 400 mm pliers wrench (Würth edition). Never thought it would be so much bigger than the 300 mm. BTW why has this channel been closed?
The chrome version is generally lighter than the black one.. I just checked the new version of both against each other.. the handle being the slick plastic might make a bit of a difference, but honestly don’t think so
Difference of both 180 versions was ~30gram
It might just be the chrome on the steel, or maybe they use different steel on the chrome in general
I actually found the new version in a Home Depot and I gotta say I actually really like the feel of the new ones better. I guess it's cause my fingers are longer, so I assume the designers at knipex on average have long fingers too.
those are not "new" and "old" versions, it's the 8601250 atramentized vresion and the 8603250 chrome plated
first two characters define the tool type: 86 - plier type
third character is the jaw type: 0 - straight jaw
fourth is the finish: 3 - chrome plated / 1 - atramentized
fitfth to seventh characters define the length: 250 - length in mm
Now I’m confused on which ones to purchase I just ordered a set of the 7 inch plier wrench and cobras and I believe there the new black versions I hope there just as good as the old version????
32=32 when the pliers are still very slightly open and therefore able to squeeze and grip, not hard up against the stop where it can't squeeze because it's at the limit of travel.
I have the newer black oxide version. I love them except for the now-increased handle grip gap (handles spread farther apart). This does not work well with my smaller hands. Cosmetically, I prefer the black oxide but, functionally, I wish Knipex would decrease the new grip gap to allow a more controlled "ratcheting action".
Is there greater leeway jaw opening (for a given notch position) on the new ones compared to the old? This would allow for easier and quicker ratcheting. If you could measure for both the old and new, that'd be great. I think the new is 6mm, though that could be for the 7" version of the pliers.
***EDIT***: Found out that the new 7" pliers have almost a millimetre more travel for a given notch setting. That doesn't sound like a lot, but it makes ratcheting easier or even possible with bigger nuts.
As soon as I saw those handles... I said the same thing. 1st bit of oil on those new handles will be there forever. Can't just wipe it off.
The chroming on the old model isn't that great. Some of it chipped off on mine. Offering a black finish option wouldn't be a bad thing. The same goes with adding size markings and making it lighter without sacrificing strength. That being said, the wider gap between the handles makes it harder to hold both handles in one hand like a standard adjustable wrench when the handles have to be partially open. That can get annoying and I might order some other sizes to supplement my 10" pliers wrench early to make sure I get the old style.
Mine has a few rust spots that came through the finish. That being said it's still the best wrench I've ever used. Will never part with it and would like to see this still being sold next to the new one Idk it is kinda a shame. Why fix something people loved and wasn't broken?
I really hope they don’t drop the chrome version. I thought they were perfect the way they were without all the fancy lightening cuts and stuff.
They did not drop the Chrome version... and it is more durable in the wet than the other, less expensive finishes.
I'm not positive, but have heard the second & third digits of Knipex part/model numbers refer to the handle grip type. Don't have time to look it up now, but seem to recall that info buried deep within the Knipex website.
For the record, I know a tool truck guy who prefers carrying the rough plastic Knipex grips... says they mitigate returns as the impossible to clean textured material rapidly becomes filthy & thus un-returnable with little if any use. Same deal with a lot of other soft handle & over-molded tools/products that are now so common.
Also, assuredly the weight reduction has to do with money... less raw material per unit, probably easier/cheaper to forge & machine, reduced shipping costs and who knows what all else. No matter what they say, it's always about money.
Bought the new version 10 inch but with the comfort handle and I like it. Model 86 05 250
They are great wrenches. I’ll keep my original chrome ones though 😁
I'm a DIYer. I like my gen 1 Knipex wrench pliers. My only complaint is no size markings. It's nice the gen 2 had this. These are great tools.
How do you know Knipex will discontinue production of the old version?
I've watched this video a few times now on separate viewings and I kind of prefer the new ones now. The handles are further apart, but that's most evident at the widest jaw opening, which the older one cannot reach. At the more closed jaw positions the difference is negligible and I reckon IRL would not be too noticeable. Also, someone mentioned pinch-prevention. Hmm...
Yeah I have pinched myself pretty good with the old version, but I don't have the new ones so I don't know how they compare.
I Love Love Love “over engineered” 😃
Great channel full of helpful analysis. I for one hope you can continue with these great detailed reviews 👍🏼
Excellent comparison. Thanks for posting this.
I'm not liking the handles being farther apart either. That is almost a non-starter for me. I'll stick with the old ones I have.
GTR, I ask two questions. One, so far I noticed that Knipex prefers to use the soft handle for the oxide finish and the other for chrome finish instead of giving the soft handle for new products. Can you confirm this? Second, if you set the size right, I believe you can use the tool by only pushing the moving jaw handle and not having to squeeze both. Did you try it? I'm curious what you think.
what is the purpose for red and blue handle??
They are both still being sold. Not old vs new just the different version of the same tool 01 is the cheaper or budget one.
I dont know why vut i always enjoy slimer handls then thick but i love when they are closer one to the other
Man I really wish you would do a new comparison video on these. I'm fascinated and really want to get a pair, but I'm not sure what to get. Now they have comfort grips, and I'm under the impression they have 3 different finishes now. Chrome, black ox, and nickel?
Man, I love Knipex but I feel this is a step backwards... Glad I already have duplicates of every size but 16", only one of them 😁👍
I noticed the handles on a replacement set I bought. Not a fan :(
i got the chrome 180m tonight. idk if im being picky but theres a ton of play in the lower jaw and when fully closed its offset from the top. also the lever seems to stick the more i open the jaws.
The 86 03 250 is the new version now too.
Looks like the part number is different between the two...86-03-250 vs 86-01-250. Note the middle pair of digits is different between the two...
Yeah, exactly! And you order them by part number unless it's a home improvement store or the like that just writes "Knipex pliers 250."
I love Knipex. I have to say though, based on what the changes to the handles seem to be, I don't think it's a very smart decision on their part. The grips are further apart and worst of all, the handles are thinner which is not a plus in my opinion when applying lots of squeezing force. If anyone is like me, when I really need to squeeze pliers, I want a thicker handle that wont dig into my hands.
Great pliers , even with the cut-down weight its still an over-engineered tool :)
..........prefer the new type - matches my cobra"s ! :)
@@ccmogs5757 they come in chrome as well.
@@LemonySnicket-EUC - older pattern are chromed , this newer type are black/grey atramentized like the cobra"s :)
Do they sell the Black Oxide version in a set like the chrome edition?
So I live in Oregon and prefer the chrome version of the pliers wrenches and also the cobras. Do you think it even matters with these new models and new production dated tools that appear to have a better bluing to them & you certain they will discontinue the chrome versions fully? That means 5-7 different sizes to make... Have you seen the 15 degree bent handle pliers wrenches? They Look like a great tool for being close to a surface. Thank you for the content, I just watched the re chroming video more videos like those would be GREAT! I watch A LOT of ScoutCrafter who is a great toolsmith, I think you two would be able to come up with some great content if you shared something with him and vice versa.
They have only announced the new versions for the 250mm (10") line. I think the other sizes have remained unchanged at this point (125, 150, 180, 300). Haven't tried the 15 degree versions yet.
For those of you old enough, take a step back to the 80s and imagine seeing a pair of pliers that looked like these. While aesthetics don't make for functionality, these things look like a prop out of a sci fi movie. I like the looks and concept of both, but the price is an inhibitor for me - not a mechanic, just a DIY with limited budget and a tried and true set of Channel Locks!
Buying from the German amazon one pliers wrench costs just as much as a 11 piece set of mid quality spanners. And with those you are stuck to 11 specific tools while this provides a larger range as well as ratcheting action, I see no competition here.
@@HunGredy also it´s a buy once cry once situation, they´re totally worth it
Just got a set in today. Also,checked on their site and it looks like that the 10in is only one that was updated, everything is the same......does anyone know why???
Btw, Knipex must have two chrome sources because it has always bugged me that some of my pliers wrenches have a blue hue and others a gold hue. Why don't they work on that quality control aspect instead of ruining a perfect design?
BrenticusMaximus1 The blue color you see is not Chrome, it is nickel plating. These are not chrome.
I ordered 4 of these and mine came in chrome. But has the new features. Did they make a chrome version too?
Yes, i ordered one and i got the new model with chrome version too..
Where did y’all order them from?
I just bought this new version but it’s in chrome and has the slick handles.
Part# ?
Rob R. 86 03 250 SBA
Rob R. KNIPEX Tools KNIPEX 86 03 250 SBA Pliers Wrench, www.amazon.com/dp/B005EXOK22/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_mgX3EbH1BR5YV
I got it on sale at Home Depot a couple days ago.
RhinoAg awesome thank you that’s what I figured from pictures I saw online.
I ended up ordering the 3piece plier/wrench set in nickel/chrome and interested to see if knipex updated the 10” in that combo set. May also order the comfort grips too and see if I prefer those
Thanks
Which is better: chrome or black finished?
Chrome is always better, as it is pretty much rust-proof. Knipex is making the chrome in the new version now.
Where can I find the older versions
I will stay with the chromed and thicker model. Personally that one has enough of flex. Can only imagine how much flex the new one has. Cost does not mean everything.
Hi , where can you get the dark colour please ????
is the cobra also getting a new version?
If the part numbers are identical, then I would guess that they are mutually compatible.
I bought a knipex plier wrench 180 on Amazon, but I didn't like the jaw slack, is this normal? greetings from Brazil.
Jaw slack? You’re supposed to adjust them so it feels like you’re crushing the nut/bolt as you squeeze the handles. There is no slack when you’re using them as intended.
I think they're making a chrome version of the new ones but they need to get rid of the old ones
They did I have them in chrome.
I very much prefer the older version
Probably wont get an answer here but worth trying, any car mechanics either professionally or on hobby basis who has any say about this tool? I'm thinking of getting one and I'm curious if I should look for the old/new one. :)
Is the new fairer than the old?
Put them to use in a video to see what they do.
Great comparison, by any have you reviewed any grip locking (Knipex/Gedore)pliers ?
Strange the etched marking aren't more accurate.
What is the difference of exact same model numbers except having “SBA” at end
i think that is the company name that possibly may have purchased the previous company to those tools.
dont know, just guessing.
I had the same question when I noticed that Zoro sold both. They checked with Knipex, and the only difference is in the packaging.
I'm glad I picked up the old version for 30 bucks
What, even at Menards, there 49.99. Where you shop
Hi would you recommend them or the were joke wrenches?
What do you oil your tools with?
Used your link to buy the 86 01 250 ! Thank you for the detailed videos! I would have bought the old version somewhere else!
More skookum, more comfortable, and easier to clean. Needless to say I’ll stick with my old ones.
I was thinking that too - those knurled sections on the new ones would get packed with grease if you used them on dirty stuff and be a lot harder to clean off.
Don't quite get why 🤔
less metal , less cost ,,,, more . profit
@@tomthompson7400 no idea about other retailers but the old ones cost almost 10$ less at Amazon.
New ones are comprised of harder metal.
@@EditioCastigata old ones got a spring . Really comfortable and chrome want get you home , but it cleans up pretty damned good .
@@terrystanley2989 I've some here, old and new. Where's the spring they replaced you say?
As the saying goes, "dont reinvent the wheel". The old version that I have and have used extensively I'd great. I love them. It appears they are trying to save money NOT improving their previous design. Buy the old version.
Todays innovation is "making things cheaper and selling it expensive".
So sad that this old philosophie has now arrived here in Germany
I don’t agree. I believe the new design is better. I found the old handles less comfortable, and the new jaws are better. A better quality steel allow thinner parts.
Love this tool, but please don’t over engineering in optimisation to reduce the weight!
i thing preaple got blister from the handels bing to close toghether and that is why they canged it. i like the change but i will allways buy chromed over everyting
Samykill you think it will rust..
@@axtra92 yes
@@axtra92 They were selling the chromed version in a store I went too and the entire thing was completely rusted. I'm not sure how they managed that, but someone screwed up bad. They were still trying to sell it for $35 even though it looked like it belonged in my grandpas toolbox. On the otherhand the one I have hasn't rusted, and I've used it for some plumbing work, so I guess as long as you make sure to wipe it down there shouldn't be an issue.
@@iamfuckingyourwaifuandther2743 mines got a few rust speckles on it but not terrible. I can't tell you how many tools like that I've seen at shows being sold for full price. 😂
The lower weight shows what modern engineering can do with computer simulations. I'm willing to bet they did FEA on the pliers to figure out where they could remove material without sacrificing any strength.
I am stoked for your plierswrench comparison vid. I know this is GERMAN tool reviews, but it would be great if you could get a pair of the new irwin pliers wrenches to add to the mix.
Cheaply made in V-China and when button goes throw'm away........nuff said.
Thanks, I‘ve been anticipating this :)
They made it black so the new and old dont get mixed
But they will make it chrome later
why did they have to do this now, i'm strapped for cash and i want the old stock....
Should get the bent handle version of the old stock, come in real handie! OH HEY BIRD!! Hows the Blindviews! =) check out my vids buddy Im gonna get better this year with my tube stuff. =)
@@Toyotas_n__Tools
hey buddy, i havent been to blindviews channel in ages, i just subbed to your channel, i'll check it out later after the game
I was thinking the same thing 😂😂😂🤣
You can get the old one brand new on eBay for cheaper !!
Knipex is the tool that the older the better~
Dunno about you but I'm used to the wider grip.....😂
Do you have a Knipex pipe wrench?
Not yet. I have an older 2" Swedish style pipe wrench from Gedore though.
hey. whats the difference between the cobra and the alligator? is there a comparison or are they two different tools? they appear similar to me.
The alligator are more slip-joint style like a channelock, the cobra have a push button on the side with a very fine adjustment count. Cobras will not shift their position if opened fully or dropped, but the alligator (or slip-joint style) need to open fully to adjust. Also lower count of opening position increments on the alligators when compared to cobra. It's all preference and feel.
Dude, why you gotta' talk with your hands? I'm trying to look at the Pliers.