The Surprising Origin of Shoulder Angels

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ม.ค. 2025

ความคิดเห็น • 134

  • @acediadekay3793
    @acediadekay3793 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +112

    WOW, Dr Dre and Eminem being the origin of this trope truly is surprising

  • @waffle6454
    @waffle6454 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +236

    In an episode of The Amazing World of Gumball, the Dad character (Richard) is debating wether or not he should go into an office building to use the vending machine, and he gets a little shoulder demon. This leads to a joke where his demon gets a shoulder angel, then that angle gets a demon, and they all start yelling at each other.
    Richard sees all this and delivers probably the best line ever:
    "I either need some food or some therapy... Mmm, chips are cheaper."

    • @TabletsAndTemples
      @TabletsAndTemples  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +35

      I should have used that clip in the video!

    • @gothnerd887
      @gothnerd887 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      I like the line "chips are cheaper" because it's similar to a British phrase; "cheap as chips"

    • @losslesswifi
      @losslesswifi 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@gothnerd887obviously talking about a different food, though.

    • @bim2013
      @bim2013 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      This is clearly inspired by xavier renegade angel. They had a very similar scene. But honestly i wouldn't reccomend using a clio of that lmao

  • @antonco2
    @antonco2 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +101

    It's also one of these ideas that's soooo easy to understand, even a small child gets it. Once this idea was created, it was unstoppable, it was going to catch fire and be reused again and again and again

  • @Lreclusa
    @Lreclusa 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +178

    I find it interesting that the salt is thrown over the left shoulder, and a lot of the examples shown here depict the angel on the left shoulder instead of the devil.

    • @TabletsAndTemples
      @TabletsAndTemples  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +29

      Very interesting indeed!

    • @iklone
      @iklone 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Left is generally still as the evil side, it's where we get the word "sinister" meaning leftwards

    • @azure_sparkle
      @azure_sparkle 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +43

      It might be in how the film makers prioritize the right and left of the character vs of the viewers.

    • @ProdHymns
      @ProdHymns 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Read the Bible lol

    • @komiks42
      @komiks42 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      ​@@ProdHymns i'd read, still dont get it. Care to point what part explsin that?

  • @ShawnRavenfire
    @ShawnRavenfire 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Some of my favorite subversions of this: "Just Shoot Me," a devil pops up on David Spade's shoulder. Then he waits for the angel to show up, but it turns out he doesn't have one. In "Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back," a devil shows up on Jay's one shoulder, and then instead of an angel, a second devil shows up on his other shoulder, and tell him that they beat up the angel. (Later, a beat-up angel does show up.) Conan O'Brien had a running gag on his show, where a devil would show up on one shoulder, but because the angel was running late, a bear would show up on his other shoulder, telling him random things about surviving in the woods.

  • @redrix3731
    @redrix3731 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +33

    My favorite representation in popculture of the 'evil' demon vs the 'good' angel in someone's mind trope is in an episode of the british classic comedy Absolutely Fabulous, in which the protagonist, an ageing boomer socialite, is torn apart by the two aspects in a dream-sequence, and the angel is played by the posh English blond Marianne Faithful (Mick Jagger's girlfriend in the 60s) and the demon is played by the bohemian German darkhaired Anita Pallenberg (Brian Jones' and later Keith Richards' girlfriend in the 60s ). A brilliant and amusing piece of casting!

  • @KingPBJames
    @KingPBJames 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +18

    Ha, in Ed Edd & Eddy, the shoulder devil and angel are his two friends instead of just miniature versions of himself.

  • @Stevie-J
    @Stevie-J 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    There's a lot of modern and historic artwork packed into this six minute video! The content-to-length ratio is far outside the norm for youtube

  • @FreshGarbage0
    @FreshGarbage0 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Lilo and Stitch the Series has fun with this trope in Mr. Stenchy when Stitch is in a moral conundrum and after the first devil appears on his shoulder, a second one shows up to agree with the first

  • @SomasAcademy
    @SomasAcademy 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +78

    ~5:50 Oh so THAT'S where the ol' "Inside you there are two wolves" meme comes from

    • @TabletsAndTemples
      @TabletsAndTemples  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

      That's it!

    • @Father-of-Xerxes
      @Father-of-Xerxes 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +17

      Except the consensus is that it didn’t actually originate with Native Americans and is better thought of as fakelore

    • @TabletsAndTemples
      @TabletsAndTemples  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +27

      @@Father-of-Xerxes I looked into it and you are correct! Disappointing that it's made it's way into an academic article. But yes it seems to have originated with Billy Graham of all people. I have edited that section out of the video.

    • @Father-of-Xerxes
      @Father-of-Xerxes 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      @@TabletsAndTemples wait Billy Graham??? I knew it was fakelore but I had no idea it was from him - that’s borderline hilarious

    • @Father-of-Xerxes
      @Father-of-Xerxes 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      @@TabletsAndTemples also did not intend that as a call out or anything like that - thank you for making such great videos and please keep up the great work!!

  • @DarkReaper12
    @DarkReaper12 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +36

    "There are two wolves within you ..."

    • @burlapknapsack
      @burlapknapsack 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      Ugh, I'm so tired of cleaning up after them. It's not just that wolves can't be housebroken, they keep marking their territories

    • @Michael-j4l3d
      @Michael-j4l3d 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      One Black the other Chinese.

    • @stoopidapples1596
      @stoopidapples1596 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      One is gay, the other is gay. You are gay.

  • @sskpsp
    @sskpsp 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +25

    0:11 the concept of competing influences on the mind is not just an ancient Greek one. There are multiple traditions of philosophy of mind across global history

    • @islandplace7235
      @islandplace7235 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      Yeah did you see the rest of the video?

  • @amma38264
    @amma38264 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +31

    I've always been interested in how that trope came to exist. It seems like the most random, wacky thing to think of, but it's in a whole lot of media.

    • @TabletsAndTemples
      @TabletsAndTemples  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Well thanks for watching! I had the same thought so I made this video.

  • @Sydpart2
    @Sydpart2 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    My fave but that ever did this was in Just Shoot Me where Finch had a small devil appear on his shoulder to tell him what to do. He keeps looking over to the other shoulder and the small devil asks him why
    "Isn't there supposed to be a little angle guy here to tell me to not do that?"
    "Is your name Finch?"
    "Yes"
    "Then don't worry about that."

  • @shadowmage2
    @shadowmage2 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    In Norse mythologies, we had something that was eventually replaced with this as Christianity spread, the Vörðr, or Warden. It was a form of guardian spirit that tried to steer us clear from misfortune, often felt like that special gut feeling or sixth sense that we sometimes feel when something is off. Some were even supposed to appear before their charges, and there are mentions of the Wardens of dead people returning as revenants.

  • @Amr_55
    @Amr_55 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +23

    3:04 In Islam it's said that there are two angels in everyone's shoulders
    the one in the left notes all of your bad deeds, and the one on the right notes all of your good deeds
    Although none of them have a real influence on the person

    • @teehee4096
      @teehee4096 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​​@@TabletsAndTemplesWaswas is associated with jinn - not angels. What Amr is describing are the angels tasked with recording deeds, rather than the Qareen (the jinn-double of an individual who whispers waswas)

    • @TabletsAndTemples
      @TabletsAndTemples  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      ah yes my mistake, I misread. I did cover the the two angels in the Quran in the video.

  • @zarinaa1135
    @zarinaa1135 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +23

    In Jewish tradition, a Good Angel and Bad Angel (we don't really have davils, just Angels with the job description of 'evil') follow each father from synagogue to his household on Shabbat night. They then judge if the household is appropriately prepared and celebrating the Sabbath and if they are, the Good Angel blesses them to have every Shabbat be held thus and the Bad Angel has to say 'amen' , and if the household isn't following the commandments of Shabbat the Bad Angel blesses the household to continue on that path and the Good Angel has to say 'amen'.
    Jews have many traditions and not all sects follow them all, but nearly all religious Jews sing a specific song welcoming these angels when the father comes home from prayer. It invites them in, asks them to judge us well and bids them farewell.
    Hope you found that interesting!

    • @elderleon1844
      @elderleon1844 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      wait but some jewish sites say that jews don't even bellieve in angels as supernatural personal beings

  • @MarkiplierMeatMuncher8
    @MarkiplierMeatMuncher8 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    This video is so well edited I'm surprised you only have 8K subs tbh

  • @BurntFrost
    @BurntFrost 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    That deviled egg on the windowsill, I don't know how long it's been there but you should eat that.

  • @toddfraser3353
    @toddfraser3353 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Being a general duality in our core nature. And how we perceived making morality decisions in our head. Having roughly head height characters of good and evil seems to me to be an easy visual representation of what is going on.
    Much like anger often has fire or steam/smoke coming out of your head, or a light source (lightbulb or heavenly Sunbeam) when you get a good idea.
    The older images, cam when we thought with our hearts and full body, so the images were more to that size, but as we now precieve our thoughts to be done in the brain, we now relate to our modern expectation of reality.

  • @jonhanson8925
    @jonhanson8925 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    Great documentary! Really great job tracing this idea as far back as you could, looking at it from different angles, all within a concise video (you could have stretched this out much longer)

    • @TabletsAndTemples
      @TabletsAndTemples  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@jonhanson8925 thanks so much! Yeah I know the algorithm favors longer videos at the moment, but I try to just make what I'd want to watch. Glad you liked it.

  • @TheGribblesnitch
    @TheGribblesnitch 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I reckon the 'standing on the shoulders' origin in persian and turish may be a quirk of translation. In english we do say 'ON his right', perhaps the turkish / persian vrsions wer translated directly as "on top of" and thus assumed to be on top of each shoulder

    • @TabletsAndTemples
      @TabletsAndTemples  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Yes that's my sense too, but I included it as it features in many writings on this topic.

  • @zuntata7860
    @zuntata7860 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    i love when they do "the devil appears but have no clue where is the angel either"

  • @mikez4388
    @mikez4388 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This is an awesome video 🎉 you should cover the angel hierarchy from archangels to seraphims, and how they have been interpreted in pop culture

  • @JJMcCullough
    @JJMcCullough 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +44

    I think the Occam's Razor explanation is just that this was something 20th century cartoonists made up because it's a funny way to communicate the idea of a character being tempted in two different directions. I think sometimes people try too hard to find deep historic origins for things that don't actually have any.

    • @mlgdigimon
      @mlgdigimon 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

      i mean these do have historic origins, and you can trace almost every idea

    • @zachhecita
      @zachhecita 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

      Even if adopters of an idea may have been unaware of its historical roots, it's a type of genetic fallacy to suggest that there are no historical roots. On the contrary, It's a natural consequence of being raised in a Judeo-Christian culture with Greek influences. You'll have a bunch of religious and philosophical ideas you take for granted. For example, most people think human rights are an modern invention, but these ideas can actually be traced to Judeo-Christian teachings.

    • @teehee4096
      @teehee4096 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Human rights are not derived from Judeo-Christian teachings... that's clearly an apologetic argument.​@@zachhecita

    • @zachhecita
      @zachhecita 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@teehee4096 That is patently false and fallacious. Just because historical facts align with Christian apologetics, it does not make it less true. That is the genetic fallacy. Medieval Christian theologians like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas laid the groundwork for natural law and justice based on Christian teachings such as the doctrine of Imago Dei. Aquinas’ view that natural law is part of God's divine order helped shape later secular legal theories about natural rights, which formed the foundation for modern human rights.
      For example, Aquinas argued that human laws should be rooted in natural law, which reflects God's eternal law. This idea influenced later Enlightenment thinkers like John Locke, who adapted these concepts in developing his theories on natural rights, such as life, liberty, and property.

    • @JJMcCullough
      @JJMcCullough 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      @@zachhecita the “root” is just the idea of angels and devils which have been around since the Bible. The video purports to offer the origins of the little cartoon angels and devils that appear on people’s shoulders but it doesn’t do a good job imo because I don’t think there is some grand ancient origin of them. They’re pretty clearly something invented for cartoons.

  • @teehee4096
    @teehee4096 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    I'd love to know how the concept of a guardian angel developed; it seems common to both Christianity and Islam, and I'm sure there's a Greek (or maybe Mesopotamian) origin to it too!

  • @SplatPrime
    @SplatPrime 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    From the production quality of this video, it seems like this channel would have a lot more subscribers. Keep up the great work man, one day you'll get up there!

  • @Ravanananda
    @Ravanananda 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Guardian angels are also mentioned vaguely in the book of Daniel. I think Old King James says guardian angel, but newer versions kind of tiptoe around it.

  • @timkarlsson1750
    @timkarlsson1750 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    It was some webcomic i read where one of the characters gets two devils instead of ona and a n angel.
    I like times when the devil and angel agrees

  • @MyScorpion42
    @MyScorpion42 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    what about the recursive shoulder devils from Xavier Renegade Angel

  • @eduardog3000
    @eduardog3000 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    0:14 what's the source of those angel and devil boy graphics?

    • @TabletsAndTemples
      @TabletsAndTemples  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@eduardog3000 those are bespoke, animated in AE

  • @cerocero2817
    @cerocero2817 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    What's the castle at 1:55?

    • @TabletsAndTemples
      @TabletsAndTemples  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      It was just some stock footage, but apparently it is Castelul Corvinilor

    • @cerocero2817
      @cerocero2817 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@TabletsAndTemples Thanks, and nice video

    • @dragonluvver975
      @dragonluvver975 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Castelul Corvinilor, Romania
      I know he answered already

    • @cerocero2817
      @cerocero2817 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@dragonluvver975 Such a beautiful castle.

    • @TabletsAndTemples
      @TabletsAndTemples  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      And lucky for me it was built around the century that I was talking about in the video. Some European fairy tale castles are actually quite modern like Neuschwanstein

  • @thomasgeschke9553
    @thomasgeschke9553 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Love the topic and I think you did an excellent job explaining it for 6 minutes. I do think it is silly, though, that when starting to talk about Arabic folklore that you show the Hagia Sophia - built under Justinian I of the Eastern Roman Empire. Justinian was a native Latin speaker from the Balkans, Greek was the dominant language, and they were Christians. Then, the Arabs didn’t take control later, but the Turks. So, there is very little Arabic about it

    • @TabletsAndTemples
      @TabletsAndTemples  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Thanks for pointing that out, I'll double check my stock footage more closely in the future.

  • @theodddoggo
    @theodddoggo 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    great video, very informative, but one question is still unanswered!
    just _who_ made that amazing cat painting at 3:53? gave me quite a laugh! i'd love to see more of their work! :D

    • @TabletsAndTemples
      @TabletsAndTemples  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@theodddoggo glad you liked it! The cat picture is from ~1845 by Jean Ignace Isidore Gerard

  • @Biaju_Project
    @Biaju_Project 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    There's similar concept in Islam, but the angel just write down your action to be judge on the judgement day. The angel on the left write your bad action, and on the right write your good action.

  • @alessandro4050
    @alessandro4050 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Nice video

  • @meganefanatic9218
    @meganefanatic9218 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    greatest version of angel and devil on shoulders has to be from the manga City chapter 31

  • @MidlifeCrisisJoe
    @MidlifeCrisisJoe 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Surprised you didn't mention that in Greek conception, the concept of the daimon or daemon, which were "guiding spirits" for mankind and similar in concept if not the root concept for the "horses pulling the chariot" metaphor used. Considering how similar these words are to "demon," the notion of an evil spirit tempting a man into improper action is directly related here.

    • @TabletsAndTemples
      @TabletsAndTemples  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I'm working on a history of Guardian Angels video as well, Daimons will come up a lot more there.

  • @KenDavis761
    @KenDavis761 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Could it be an emergent phenomena of how some people perceive their inner voice (that not everyone has). I've had more than a few clients talk about two voices (not angels), spatially located on their shoulders?

    • @TabletsAndTemples
      @TabletsAndTemples  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      That's certainly a interesting avenue for investigation

  • @rtyuik7
    @rtyuik7 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    if i had the time (and money), id get a tattoo on my shoulders, one of Navi and one of Tatl...
    ...the "Zelda 64 version" of the White Wolf/Dark Wolf, in my opinion...

  • @diogodifrente4283
    @diogodifrente4283 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I tought it was with faust

  • @SwankemasterSupreme
    @SwankemasterSupreme 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    0:54 so it’s the Id/Ego/Superego thing.

  • @unknown-dc2qo
    @unknown-dc2qo 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Underrated

  • @legusurting
    @legusurting 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Most mdoern examples seem to have the side switched. Maybe they are going for a "from the perspective of the audience" sort of thing. Or maybe I'm just too nitpicky.

    • @TabletsAndTemples
      @TabletsAndTemples  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Well I think the strictness of which shoulder the Devil was on is a piece of post-1800s folklore. I don't think it has any ancient roots.

  • @jonothanthrace1530
    @jonothanthrace1530 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I want to know what the difference between "spiritedness" and "passion" is meant to be.

    • @TabletsAndTemples
      @TabletsAndTemples  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      @jonothanthrace1530 spiritedness is like seeking after higher virtues: ego, glory, honor. Passions are lust, sex, food, drink, money power. The Greek terms are thumos (the white horse) and eros (the dark horse)

    • @jonothanthrace1530
      @jonothanthrace1530 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@TabletsAndTemples Spirituality might be a more apt term in modern English, then.

  • @Leplastiman
    @Leplastiman 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    is't that platonic?

  • @maxrdiamond
    @maxrdiamond 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Interesting but suprised you didn't mention Yetzer tov (good inclination) and Yetzer Hora (evil inclination) the Jewish idea that every soul is influenced by these two pulling divine sources (this directly influenced Freud as well who was Jewish). The philosophy most likely predates the Christian and definitely Islamic interpretations. Very similar to the Ancient greek idea. However this was often characterised metaphorically as a good and evil voice very similar to the angels on the shoulder idea. The only main difference being an internal struggle. However this was most likely made external in art as super creepy to draw them internally although now I think about it potentially stunning if done right.
    The most important factor is that these inclinations are yours and a representation of you. Which to me is the strongest link to the angel and devil who usually appear as versions of the thinking just in divine drag. :)

    • @TabletsAndTemples
      @TabletsAndTemples  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Hey thanks for that. It certainly wasn't deliberate, it just never came up in any of the articles and discussions I read on the topic, including an academic journal article tracing its history as a rhetorical diea! But yes, looks like Genesis Rabbah is the earliest Rabbinic text that contains a discussion of divided inclinations. Most scholars would put that between 300-500CE. So I don't think it's the earliest, but yes I do wish I had known to include it.

    • @maxrdiamond
      @maxrdiamond 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@TabletsAndTemples Thanks for the response and the research into my comment :) looking forward to checking out more

  • @briansinger5258
    @briansinger5258 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    The origin of a fundamental western philosophical concept is Greece?
    Wierd.

  • @varsoonhks3211
    @varsoonhks3211 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    If this isn't surprising, I'm disliking this video, reporting this video, blocking your channel, finding where you live, and consulting the angels over if the place should be burned down or not.

  • @LuciusDidus
    @LuciusDidus 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Well demons angels alright

  • @lets_try_more_repect
    @lets_try_more_repect 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Thanks! Loved the history. You missed an awesome example though: th-cam.com/video/rIePw-Zm9Aw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=HdwPTRDzo-DsWaW6

    • @lets_try_more_repect
      @lets_try_more_repect 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Or better: th-cam.com/video/A1wRdpAz3oM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=0g1vR4xskuaaGqCQ

  • @Paulthored
    @Paulthored 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I always *find it sus,* when someone talks about Christianity & Ostensibly Christian topics, use CE/BCE instead of BC/AD.

  • @datprawn4850
    @datprawn4850 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Of course, if you want to look in scripture, this is all man's fables. The main conflict a true Born Again Christian has in his life (one who Trusts wholeheartedly in the shed blood of Jesus Christ that washes away all our sins and Stand in the Gospel of 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) is a war between his flesh (the Old Man) and his spirit (The New Man). Both are interlocked that makes you unable to please God and Jesus. This is why Jesus died on the cross and rose again. He did all the hard work by keeping the whole Law of Moses so we, including us Gentiles, wouldn't. All have sinned and come short to the glory of God.

  • @hibandit-h9z
    @hibandit-h9z 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    4:54 racism jumpscare

  • @denofcuriousmeltherat8378
    @denofcuriousmeltherat8378 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    🤮