“We were out in the veldt fighting the Boer the way he fought us. I’ll tell you what rule we applied, sir. We applied rule 303. We caught them and we shot them under rule 303.” -LT Harry Morant in the film Breaker Morant. I can't watch a video on the Lee-Metford Rifle without instantly quoting that film. Thanks for another great video!
I always wondered how accurate the range settings were on those kind of military sights back then but they must have been pretty good at calculating how far the sight needed to be adjusted if they came up with the same .03" error in the rear sight that your computer program did. That's amazing.
It's just math really... they probably did some tests and came up with the same number I did with similar methods. Still, I was pretty chuffed that my data matched theirs.. :-)
You really are a wealth of knowledge of 19th century weapons. I really have no practical interest in the subject, as I am more of a fan of World War-era firearms, but finding this kind of stuff out is still fascinating. Keep up the good work!
Just found this video, and many, many thanks for playing The Watchtower ("Hoch Heidecksburg") in the background, which is the Corps march for my old Corps, the Corps of Royal Military Police :D
Yet another excellent and well balanced video from you Rob, The rifle you have there is in excellent condition, but as restored you don't mind shooting it, a very nice combination and you were very lucky to have found it, it went to the right man with you! Thanks for posting this.
Englishman French Thank you sir. Personally, I don't think that I'd own a rifle that I wouldn't shoot. That's just me. Like you said though, excellent condition and it was restored to be: 1, be as close to a proper Mk I (no star) as possible (aesthetically); and 2, be a shooter... Head spacing was checked and set as well as the new barrel... And to top it all off, it basically landed in my lap... Cheers.
Did read an extract from Churchill's "The River War" which suggested the Guards started volley fire at 2,700 yards at Omdurman, with most other Battalions waiting till the range was nearer 1800-2000 yards.
Indeed. That is near the extreme of the dial sight settings. One can't help but think that given the conditions, the size of the target and the fact that there were so few chances to to employ fire at these ranges, there might have been a bit of novelty in doing so...
Finally somebody that understands you don't wear big clumsy ear Defenders while you're outside with an old rifle. The ear Defenders get in the way of proper posture and could scratch the wood on the butt stock.
'To inform, educate and entertain'. You sir, continue to achieve what the British Broadcasting Corporation claims as its mission (but misses by a mile these days).
Ed Hollett Thank you Ed. This one wasn't very heavy on the history, but the footage was quite surprising and unexpected... Just thought that I'd share it with everybody! Cheers.
That is one nice rifle. I'm sure it's original. It shoots very well. I could buy a Lee Metford but the price is pretty high here in the U.S. Great loading and shooting my friend.
Stew Knoles Thanks Stew. The rifle has quite the history. It has been rebuilt with an Enfield barrel... The action is original but the wood is not... (see th-cam.com/video/4JUXL5mEOvk/w-d-xo.html) recently heard from the man who had it done.... Fantastic background that one doesn't always get with a rifle such as this... Don't get me wrong, I make no bones about the work that has been done. It is, however, everything I have ever wanted in "long Enfield"... even if it was a Metford... :-) Thanks again!
Beautiful rifle, looks like new. The few Lee-Metfords I've seen look like they were used to pound tent stakes. My results with a new-condition (Factory Thorough Repair) MA1941 No. 1 rifle at 500 yards were similar. Best 3-round group was an equilateral triangle with 9" sides.
Very interesting footage and the interesting narration we have come to expect. But the sound in this one was peculiarly well made. The slowed down, exaggerated sounds together with the music was really captivating. :)
+britishmuzzleloaders From the Add on usedguns.com.au the add is no longer up. Conversion from 1890 Mark I* Lee-Metford rifle. See Skennerton, The Lee-Enfield page 478. This shortened rifle club pattern 303 calibre, see page 458. Eight stacker magazine. Enfield barrel broad arrow stamped with (´06) date stamp. Steel buttplate with brass screws. A magazine cut-off. The forend has finger grooves. Unfortunately it has been estapoled on the stock, but it still looks a treat. :-) Its actually the .22LR conversion on page 478 of Skennerton, which was then convereted to .303. This is from Ian himself :-).
Thanks once again sir! You and your videos are turning my antique arms shooting into more fun than it's ever been and given me some goals to strive for, not least improving my accuracy (I've always been a lousy shot even in the army). My granddad was at Omdurman and all through the Boer war too (RA), my family have been gunners for generations, even me. I'm now encouraged to join the Historical Arms Collectors Association of BC since shooting alone or just with my rug rat becomes a bit boring; it'll be great to meet other people of like minded interests. I really can't thank you enough, I've learned more from you in the past month or so than the previous near seventy years. Cheers. Oh, one little thing: for some reason my .464 bullet mould has now got a patch of varnishy stuff, quite small but the bullets are less than perfect because of it. I don't know what caused it, probably some dodgy wheel weights or crap in the lead pot. Do you know of a solvent that might remove it without damaging the (aluminium) mould, by any chance? If not I'll just get a new one from Martyn. Thanks again.
+David Phillips Wow.. Gunners from way back, eh? That would have been something... Omdurman.... Did they had 15 pdrs at Omdurman? Your mould... Sounds kind of weird... maybe try to gently scrape it out.. maybe try that when its heated? Acetone? Thinner? Im afraid that I can't give you a better suggestion... Great chatting, as always.
Actually, I'm not sure what guns they had at Omdurman. I know they had a battery of 40lb howitzers and some mediums though I don't know the calibres. Granddad was with RHA and they had one battery of 12 pounders on the Egyptian front; they were probably the 7cwt models. They opened fire at about 4000 yards (close range for them) and fired till about 800 because Kitchener's infantry were moving forward by then and the creeping barrage hadn't been invented. I gather that Kitchener's front then stopped behind zaribas and let the dervishes charge but the closest they got was about 150 yards. Granddad didn't make many diary entries for the Khartoum campaign but lots during the Boer war. The old bugger never retired and died, still in harness, in his office at Woolwich Arsenal at the age of 81. He invented the aneroid fuse for depth charges in 1915 and improved it over a couple of years and it was still in use after WWII. He was also a champion four and six horse gun carriage driver which he continued till war broke out in '39. He did some work on the PE fuse for anti-aircraft shells too but never wrote about that; it was an Official Secret till well after the war. My dad, also a gunner, was his youngest child; he did interesting things with shells and worked on the development of the 105mm light gun after the war. I was a gunner but was seconded to the RE (EOD), they said because of my engineering degree but I suspect it was because I wasn't the greatest of gunners.I could drop a shell into the same field as the target at ten miles but apparently that isn't good enough. EOD was fun anyway. We cleared the old Woolwich Arsenal ranges of our old unexploded ordnance and found quite a lot of old Jerry bombs which had to be defused because of a housing estate they built right onto the ranges. It's ALL houses now, I hope we got all the ordnance, hahaha. I'm working carefully on the mould and it's definitely improving, I'll take my time with it. Thanks for everything. Cheers!
+David Phillips What a great story... Love it!.. Thanks for sharing Dave. It's stories like this from viewers like you, that make this channel so enjoyable for me. Glad to hear that you mould is improving... Cheers.
I spent five years gathering the parts for a No1 lee with the enfield barrel,the long tom here in Australia.And some bloody mate of mine talked me into selling to him,mongrel. lol that top hand guard is like rocking horse poo to find as well as the dust cover and mag cutoff. Ross
+eiclan What a shame. There is something different about these early Metfords and Enfields that outs them apart from the SMLEs... The length and the sights lend an air of "old fashioned-ness" to things... Cheers.
Duncan Andrews I bet that when you open the locker/closet that you keep it in, it'll leap right out and hug you! They are as faithful as a mongrel mutt!.... Look forward to hearing about it's first outing (evidently) in quite some time... :-) Cheers.
Long story. Friend put me in touch with the previous owner. It is rebuilt. There is some info on it in previous videos.... It's a shooter, not a collector's piece.... Well, I mean that it is not in it's original condition so is less "valuable" to some..... Not to me though. :-)
@@britishmuzzleloaders It just matters how it looks like. It looks original and have all the original features and functions like an original, its done!
+Gen Scinmore The only issue that I know of is with the early Magazine Lee Enfields.... and not "all Enfields".... When the Enfield rifling was adopted in 1895, it was thought, upon preliminary experiments and theories, that the bullet would drift to the left more so than with the Metford rifled barrel. This extra effect was found to be exaggerated and steps were taken from 1900 to remedy the overcorrection. These are mentioned in this video and the Introduction video on the LM here, on the channel...
With the introduction of cooler burning powders that are in use today, I wonder if rifling utilizing the metford style would make a come back. I do know that a company called Blackhole armament produces rifles that utilize metford style rifling albeit with only three groves. From the tests I have seen it is an improvement in accuracy. The particular rifle was a modern produced AR15 with top quality components.
I would add my admiration for your videos. One of my interests is in what " obsolete" rifles were used by the LDV and Home Guard (Britain). I wonder whether they used martini henrys or sniders anywhere before they got P17s.
Great vid sir I have just aquired a very nice1897 metford pretty much as it was made with fair wear and tear for its age.i have shot with some original rounds with good results.the only thing missing is the bolt dust cover, any chance you would find me one? The rifle still has the old type safety at the rear of the bolt? If this helps.kind regards.nigelkavanagh
Very good video. Thank you. The Lee-Metford lines are certainly aesthetically pleasing, long, slender and relatively clean. Is there a dust cover attached to the bolt? Is the magazine a single column?
Charles Inglin HI Charles. Thanks for the kind words. I agree wholeheartedly about the lines of these rifles... Yes there is a dust cover attached to the bolt... The Mk I's version was screwed to the bolt with three screws vs the "clip-in" system on the Mk II and later Mk I and II Lee-Enfields. There is also a dust cover on the bolt head... The magazine in single column and is somewhat finicky to load with the last round or two... Most of this is better explained and shown here if you are so inclined... th-cam.com/video/4JUXL5mEOvk/w-d-xo.html . Cheers.
Neat! I love replicating old BP rounds. Where did you pick up the metford? I have and SMLE #1 MkIII, would it shoot about the same if loaded the same way or is the rifling twist to different?
+David Tiller Hi there. Just to be clear, this is not a replication of a black powder round... This is a replication of a smokeless round... BP and Lee Metfords is a huge red herring.... They were an interim solution only, while the Army selected a smokeless propellant... They didn't know which one to use and therefore pumped out a round using older technology until they could make up their mind.... 303 was always designed to be a smokeless calibre... Replicating the Mk I "Powder" round (as the BP round became known) is impossible... it was 70 grs of powder compressed into a pellet which was then inserted into the casing before necking.... Today, you can't get that much BP into a 303 case, ever.... As for different loads with different rifles, every rifle has a load that will work better... You have to work it up to find out!.... :-). I came by this rifle through a friend... He gave me a tip about it and the next week it was mine!... Cheers.
Thanks for the info. I will look for a heavy .303 bullet mold and start casting. I think I will be neck sizing too to make the brass last longer. I think I like the lower velocity of the lead load compared to the around 2400 fps of the spitzer loaded round used in WWI and WWII. Looks like it pounds the shoulder less too.
when can we expect your update on the mad minute? I'm curious to see how well you will do considering how well you did last time. greetings from Toronto! keep up the good shooting soldier!
HI Daniel. I've been puttering away at it from time to time. I have two SMLE videos in the works right now that will, if not showing more "best-in-a-minute" shooting, explore the whole subject of rapid fire with the SMLE, myth and realities.
britishmuzzleloaders I've seen those videos and it blew me away. no doubt that you could beat the record. if it wasn't for the fact that the cartridges were rimmed I'm sure you'd have it down pact. keep up the good work and be safe! I really enjoy your videos and the pride and work you put it. keep it up!
I'm curious how the accuracy of the Mk I Lee Metford compares to the accuracy of the Mk III SMLE due to the differences in rifling. Does the Metford rifling affect your accuracy more at range than the Enfield rifling?
do you cast your own bullets? I have a No4 mk 1 (T) and am looking for a good cast bullet to shoot from it. Wish I had some of the rifles you are showing. Keep up the good work and have lots of fun.
🌲🇬🇧🏴📜(“NO NO NO NO NO GREAT~SIR,.... DO NOT EVER PUSH LEAD CAST BULLETS THROUGH A NO 4MKI (T) or, A NO 4 MK II (T),..... 💎📜(“PLEASE LOCATE FOR YOUR PRECIOUS RIFLE, A BOX OF SIERRA MATCHKING (174) GRAIN (BTHP) IN CALIBRE: (.303) THEY ARE AVAILABLE,.... 🌲🇬🇧🏴📜(“ROLLS ROYCE SERVICE, IN A CHAMPAGNE GLASS,.!”) 📜(“CHEERS OLD~BOY”)📜 🌲🇬🇧(“GSK/GSQ”)🏴🌲 🌲🇬🇧🏴📜(“SINCERELY,..... SEAN M. SCOTT. FLYING BOATS. www.albairhu16.com
Again these video's of yours are excellent. I use a Parker Hale Sporterised N04 Mk 1 * made by Savage in 1942. She kicks like a mule . May need to be a wimp and use a pad . How do you manage all those rifles and kit . Cheers Graham near Chester UK
+Graham Gibbs Glad you enjoy them. By "manage" do you mean how do I organize them at home or how do I come by it all?... :-)... Most of it I have had for a very long time. Some of the upper body stuff I have come by fairly recently for reasonable prices off the inter web... The rifles, for the most part, are found, lonely and yearning for a kind, supportive owner, or again, off the inter web... Thanks Graham.
Hi Graham, I also have a Parker Hale Sporterised N04 Mk 1 * and I love it, I do not find the recoil that bad but the 1st centerfire rifles I fired were the FNC1A1 in 7.62 NATO at age 15 (Canadian version of the Belgian FAL )
Gday mate just bought some 174gr moulds for my no1. Big fan of your channel. I don't know if you've heard of them but there's an Aussie company that makes mould for old military rifles and other unusual stuff. Called cast bullet engineering. I'm not affiliated with them in anyway I just thought you'd be interested in having a look since they'll ship internationally. Hopefully with some experimentation I can get my alloys right and shoot mine as good as yours. Any tips you'd have would be greatly appreciated. And on an unrelated note at the end of your videos you have a royal cypher with crossed rifles underneath and I have a tattoo on my forearm I designed that looks very similar but with two martinis underneath. Where is that logo from and what's it for I'm just curious because it's almost identical to mine. Cheers mate Beau
Hi Beau. I most certainly have heard of CBE! I tried a mould of theirs but it wouldn't take the gas-check... Great quality mould, but the dimensions of the bullet were not what I needed..... Lost a chrony to one with a shed gas check...... They also were a bit on the small side... .311 or .312.... I went with a .316 from NOE. Very similar bullet but fatter. The tattoo actually isn't crossed rifles. What you are seeing are the tops of antlers and a coronet and cypher.
britishmuzzleloaders yeah I thought you would have but you never know. Projies perhaps abit small but my barrel slugs at 312 and moulds are 313 and I'll most likely get 314 after casting. That's a bugger about the gas check. The mould I got takes them. Hopefully the 30 cal checks I got fit them. Another thing that may take your interest, I work in a gun store down here in Victoria Australia and we have a socket bayonet stamped with the east India company logo but I have no idea what it's for, probably not ever gonna part with it as it's just an interesting piece to have. Doesn't quiet match any others I've seen. If you reckon you could identify it shoot us an email at beaunottage@gmail.com and I'll send you some photos. Hoping for more videos soon have a good one. And thanks for the reply
Peter Martini Yes it certainly is... It came like that.. I had the pleasure of talking to the fellow who had it done/worked on it and there was a lot of good quality work go into it... New barrel, headspacing, etc,... it was done to be a "shooter" and I certainly enjoy fulfilling that criteria....! Cheers.
I am aware of the controversy during the Boer war about either side using dum dum bullets. Are they equivalent to the modern hollow point bullets or just softer lead?
Thank goodness my ShtLE has a blade front sight instead of a barleycorn. All of my Mauser rifles have a pyramid style front sight v-notch rear, and those sights are terrible. Someone also replaced the barleycorn on my repro P58 Naval Rifle with a blade for competition, making it far nicer to look through than my repro 1861 Springfield.
@@britishmuzzleloaders Thank you for the reply. Seems the action has a short-throw and drops the hand right near the trigger. Like the No1 marks. What is your thought? Spare parts would be tough to find!
Braden Robertson Hi there.... In order to post Snider Videos I first must have, yup, you guessed it,..... a Snider..... It's on the list and I am keeping my eyes open for a good one. Once I do, there will be a series just like that done with the Enfield, the Martini and the Baker.... Don't know when, but it will happen.... I am just as curious as you. Cheers.
Here is what I am wondering: The Metford in service had a short barrel life of 5 to 6,000 rounds when they swapped from the Mk.1 black powder loaded to the Mk.2 cordite loaded .303. Cordite to my understanding is a very hot burning propellant and that caused most of the wear. I know you use IMR from your reloading videos and to my knowledge it is colder burning. In your experience do you think that the barrel life improved with your rifle with IMR vs Cordite?
How rare are Lee-Metford rifles in comparison to other ex British service rifles? And for one in good condition what is the usual price point? My guess is they are easier to find online, but that being said I did once find a Martini-Henry in excellent shape at Cabela's for under $400.00 USD.
+The Pipe Maker's Craft They are much rarer than say a No1 Mk III* or a No4... This one came my way and I jumped on it. I think you are right about looking online... you can get a much better feel for what things are going for... Cheers.
Ballistically yes,... but nobody makes .316 mould in 180 grain... and I wanted a bullet that corresponded to the early Mks of ammo, and when I worked up this round, the most accurate was the load I am using here, which was slightly slower than a service round. This necessitates oversetting the sights...
I've never even fired a rifle of any type so excuse me LOL. But do you think the Lee Metford was really superior to the Lee Enfield series? I've read the Lee Metford was originally designed to use black powder and was only later adapted to use smokeless ammunition though other nations kept using rifles of the same generation well into the 1940s, such as the 1895 Dutch Mauser and the Mosin Nagant in its pre-1931 form. I've also read that the British were considering replacing the SMLE in 1913. But it seems to this untutored eye that the Lee Metford could have been kept in service through 1914-18 without any real drop in combat effectiveness. Was the Enfield much better than the Metford?
+Butts Lane No problem! They were essentially the same rifle.... So no, I don't think that the LM was superior to the LE... or vice versa... The LM was not developed for Black Powder.... the 303 was designed as a smokeless round... the BP version was only implemented due to the type of smokeless powder having not been decided on by the late 1880s... The BP was a stop-gap.... and is a red herring as it relate to Lee rifles and 303 cartridges... Smokeless ammo was manufactured from 1891 and all BP ammunition was withdrawn from service in 1894.... LM's were manufactured into 1896. The rifle was not "adapted" for smokeless ammunition. All marks of LM/LE could shoot smokeless ammunition. The Enfield rifling came about, not because the Metford rifling didn't work, but because it (or rather the throat) wore too fast with the smokeless powder the Army chose (cordite) as it burned very hot. The Enfield rifling (which was not anything new) was more resilient and the barrels lasted longer. Indeed, among competitive shooters, it was considered that Metford rifling was superior. Yes, the Army was considering adopting a Mauser actioned, reduced calibre rifle (P13). The War broke out and that all went into hibernation (for the most part). The MLE was used into the Great War in a modified form... The Charger Loading Lee Enfield (CLLE)... This was a MLE converted to charger loading by the addition of a bridge over the bolt. It was used by Territorial and second line units and saw service in Gallipoli and also in France in 1914/early 1915. It was stop gap and when enough SMLEs were available, they were replaced... Over all, you can't really say "Was the Enfield much better than the Metford?" or "But do you think the Lee Metford was really superior to the Lee Enfield series?"... They were only incrementally different... Was the long barrel of the MLM/MLE better than the short of the SMLE? Yes, for accuracy, no for handiness. Was the extra accuracy afforded really important?.. No, not in the greater "War fighting" sense. Was the MLM better than the MLM? No,.... They functioned exactly the same. The only way to tell the difference between a Mk II* MLM and a Mk I MLE is by looking down the barrel. Externally, they are identical. Hope this helps. Cheers.
+sugarnads They hadn't "got there" by that time... It took the Boer War for charger loading to be implemented. Some Mk II Metfords (after having the barrels changed) , but mostly Magazine Lee Enfields were modified with a charger bridge after the War.
kingswoodkid1985 Hi there. In your "replicas", how much BP/how fast? In Enfield rifling I assume. What kind of projectile? Things must get rather fouled up after a few rounds, eh? Cheers.
65 grains of 2f, behind a 220grain lead round nose@.312, no chrony, but not getting leading so guessing aroung 1500 fps, yeah, in a no1mk3, it can get gunky after about 50rounds, but i rarely fire that many without cleaning, she's mainly a hunting rifle
***** Thanks Noah. Although, specifically, more of the "British Army" and a bit less of the "Empire". This rifle was superseded by first the Mk II Lee Metford and then by the Lee Enfield.... Most of the "Empire" adopted the Lee "Enfield" later into the 1890s... This is typical of the Canadian acquisition too. Noah, I seem to be able to reply here but not to your another comment.. Strange... Cheers.
Re. the "barleycorn" sight system. Modern shooters, especially those familiar with handguns, try to use it like a square-post-and-square-notch sight. Then they complain that the system is imprecise and the rifle shoots high.Rifles made to hunt African dangerous game generally were fitted with "express" sights. Front sight is a pyramid, rear sight is a v-notch, shallow in relation to its width. Correct sight picture is the tip of the pyramid centered in the bottom of the V, and that's how the sights are regulated to the ammo. At its "zero distance", the rifle won't shoot high. With practice, target acquisition is fast and aim is reasonably precise.Most dangerous game of all is an armed enemy. I'm guessing that the sighting system is a carry-over from civilian rifle-building practice, which is often in advance of military practice.
The correct sight picture with these sights (and there are three of them) are either the "fine sight", the "half sight", and the "full sight".... The Mk I Martini Henry had open express style sights but these were replaced in later marks with conventional v notch, back sights.
You've obviously done plenty of research, so I'll defer to your expertise. Thanks, I learned something today. But what you describe would only be possible with a well-trained professional army. Contemporary French and German rifles had similar sights, because they're pretty much soldier-proof. Their battle-sight zero with the "express" or "fine" sight picture and ball ammo is about 400 metres. That was problematic at times, see Erwin Rommel's account of fighting in the Ardennes in 1914 in his book "Infantry Attacks".
That is simply excellent!! Thanks for this video!
***** Thank you Balázs. The lighting was certainly working for me that day!
Great vidéo! Thanks to
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Normand Fournier You are welcome!
“We were out in the veldt fighting the Boer the way he fought us. I’ll tell you what rule we applied, sir. We applied rule 303. We caught them and we shot them under rule 303.” -LT Harry Morant in the film Breaker Morant. I can't watch a video on the Lee-Metford Rifle without instantly quoting that film. Thanks for another great video!
+Joseph Grasela Hahaha... Great movie. You are welcome. Cheers.
I always wondered how accurate the range settings were on those kind of military sights back then but they must have been pretty good at calculating how far the sight needed to be adjusted if they came up with the same .03" error in the rear sight that your computer program did. That's amazing.
It's just math really... they probably did some tests and came up with the same number I did with similar methods. Still, I was pretty chuffed that my data matched theirs.. :-)
...and NOW I know what sort of shooting I do.... "Historical Shooting" -Thanks! and thanks for the terrific work and attention to detail that you do.
Thank you!
You really are a wealth of knowledge of 19th century weapons. I really have no practical interest in the subject, as I am more of a fan of World War-era firearms, but finding this kind of stuff out is still fascinating. Keep up the good work!
+Tangero Gald you found things interesting! Cheers.
Just found this video, and many, many thanks for playing The Watchtower ("Hoch Heidecksburg") in the background, which is the Corps march for my old Corps, the Corps of Royal Military Police :D
Cheers!
Yet another excellent and well balanced video from you Rob, The rifle you have there is in excellent condition, but as restored you don't mind shooting it, a very nice combination and you were very lucky to have found it, it went to the right man with you! Thanks for posting this.
Englishman French Thank you sir. Personally, I don't think that I'd own a rifle that I wouldn't shoot. That's just me. Like you said though, excellent condition and it was restored to be: 1, be as close to a proper Mk I (no star) as possible (aesthetically); and 2, be a shooter... Head spacing was checked and set as well as the new barrel... And to top it all off, it basically landed in my lap... Cheers.
Did read an extract from Churchill's "The River War" which suggested the Guards started volley fire at 2,700 yards at Omdurman, with most other Battalions waiting till the range was nearer 1800-2000 yards.
Indeed. That is near the extreme of the dial sight settings. One can't help but think that given the conditions, the size of the target and the fact that there were so few chances to to employ fire at these ranges, there might have been a bit of novelty in doing so...
Finally somebody that understands you don't wear big clumsy ear Defenders while you're outside with an old rifle. The ear Defenders get in the way of proper posture and could scratch the wood on the butt stock.
+1joshjosh1 Oh, there's scratches all right.... Can't expect anything less when rampaging around the bush fighting the Steel Plate Army.... :-)
'To inform, educate and entertain'. You sir, continue to achieve what the British Broadcasting Corporation claims as its mission (but misses by a mile these days).
John Brooks Well thank you John. I am flattered that you feel the quality of stuff here on the channel is agreeable. Cheers.
Another excellent video complete with all the detailed background information that makes your feed so valuable to people interested in firearms.
Ed Hollett Thank you Ed. This one wasn't very heavy on the history, but the footage was quite surprising and unexpected... Just thought that I'd share it with everybody! Cheers.
Man i think i know you from some were hmmmmm hah mabey the professor from a movie i have watched
What do u think.
Loved the Great Pyramid/railway cutting analogy. Great as always.
Oatmeal Savage Can't say that was my analogy, got it from a friend..... but apt, it certainly is...
Wonderful video. There aren't many channels on youtube to which I can say that I've seen every single video - but this is one!
BennettC What a wonderful compliment. Thank you. Very happy that you are enjoying things! Cheers.
britishmuzzleloaders It's a hint for you to make more ;)
BennettC I have about 4 in the pipe on various subjects right now... :-)
Glad you did decide to make the video! I do particularly enjoy these videos on the centerfire rifles.
elektro3000 Me too.. There are more coming... Cheers
once again sir your videos are exquisite !
50TNCSA Glad you enjoyed it. Cheers.
Great content as always.
That is one nice rifle. I'm sure it's original. It shoots very well. I could buy a Lee Metford but the price is pretty high here in the U.S. Great loading and shooting my friend.
Stew Knoles Thanks Stew. The rifle has quite the history. It has been rebuilt with an Enfield barrel... The action is original but the wood is not... (see th-cam.com/video/4JUXL5mEOvk/w-d-xo.html) recently heard from the man who had it done.... Fantastic background that one doesn't always get with a rifle such as this... Don't get me wrong, I make no bones about the work that has been done. It is, however, everything I have ever wanted in "long Enfield"... even if it was a Metford... :-) Thanks again!
I watched this video purely for the sound of the shot across that valley and the impact sounds!
I made this video purely for the sound of the shot across that valley and the impact sounds....
This is the best channel on TH-cam.
You are too kind.
Beautiful rifle, looks like new. The few Lee-Metfords I've seen look like they were used to pound tent stakes. My results with a new-condition (Factory Thorough Repair) MA1941 No. 1 rifle at 500 yards were similar. Best 3-round group was an equilateral triangle with 9" sides.
Thanks, it is quite nice in person too. Sounds like you have got your rifle sorted!
Outstanding stuff as always Rob!
Matthew Moss Thank you Matt! The bullet footage was quite unexpected...
Yes definitely amazing to see the courses of flight like that. You're a lucky man to have such a nice place to shoot.
Matthew Moss I think about that every time I'm out.... :-)
wow those bullets drop quite a ways! That's pretty incredible at least to me. One note. That action is smooooth.
Very interesting footage and the interesting narration we have come to expect. But the sound in this one was peculiarly well made. The slowed down, exaggerated sounds together with the music was really captivating. :)
FooWasHere Very happy you enjoyed it. Thank you.
Hi, I have just purchased my first MLM, modified to a .22, then back to .303 with a 1906 barrel. loved the video, cant wait to get mine.
+shane Broomhall Awesome!! What Mark is it? I gather that the new barrel is an Enfield?
+britishmuzzleloaders From the Add on usedguns.com.au the add is no longer up. Conversion from 1890 Mark I* Lee-Metford rifle. See Skennerton, The Lee-Enfield page 478. This shortened rifle club pattern 303 calibre, see page 458. Eight stacker magazine. Enfield barrel broad arrow stamped with (´06) date stamp. Steel buttplate with brass screws. A magazine cut-off. The forend has finger grooves. Unfortunately it has been estapoled on the stock, but it still looks a treat. :-) Its actually the .22LR conversion on page 478 of Skennerton, which was then convereted to .303. This is from Ian himself :-).
You are one of my favorit youtubers! Keep making these videos :)
Thank you very much. Glad you enjoy things. Cheers.
I love your channel sir. Thank you for sharing your rifles.
Thank you very much!
Love those sound effects!! :D
No effects there!... :-)... all real... albeit in slow motion.
Beautiful rifle and excellent video.
Thank you!
Thanks once again sir! You and your videos are turning my antique arms shooting into more fun than it's ever been and given me some goals to strive for, not least improving my accuracy (I've always been a lousy shot even in the army). My granddad was at Omdurman and all through the Boer war too (RA), my family have been gunners for generations, even me.
I'm now encouraged to join the Historical Arms Collectors Association of BC since shooting alone or just with my rug rat becomes a bit boring; it'll be great to meet other people of like minded interests.
I really can't thank you enough, I've learned more from you in the past month or so than the previous near seventy years. Cheers.
Oh, one little thing: for some reason my .464 bullet mould has now got a patch of varnishy stuff, quite small but the bullets are less than perfect because of it. I don't know what caused it, probably some dodgy wheel weights or crap in the lead pot. Do you know of a solvent that might remove it without damaging the (aluminium) mould, by any chance? If not I'll just get a new one from Martyn. Thanks again.
+David Phillips Wow.. Gunners from way back, eh? That would have been something... Omdurman.... Did they had 15 pdrs at Omdurman?
Your mould... Sounds kind of weird... maybe try to gently scrape it out.. maybe try that when its heated? Acetone? Thinner? Im afraid that I can't give you a better suggestion... Great chatting, as always.
Actually, I'm not sure what guns they had at Omdurman. I know they had a battery of 40lb howitzers and some mediums though I don't know the calibres. Granddad was with RHA and they had one battery of 12 pounders on the Egyptian front; they were probably the 7cwt models. They opened fire at about 4000 yards (close range for them) and fired till about 800 because Kitchener's infantry were moving forward by then and the creeping barrage hadn't been invented.
I gather that Kitchener's front then stopped behind zaribas and let the dervishes charge but the closest they got was about 150 yards. Granddad didn't make many diary entries for the Khartoum campaign but lots during the Boer war.
The old bugger never retired and died, still in harness, in his office at Woolwich Arsenal at the age of 81. He invented the aneroid fuse for depth charges in 1915 and improved it over a couple of years and it was still in use after WWII. He was also a champion four and six horse gun carriage driver which he continued till war broke out in '39. He did some work on the PE fuse for anti-aircraft shells too but never wrote about that; it was an Official Secret till well after the war. My dad, also a gunner, was his youngest child; he did interesting things with shells and worked on the development of the 105mm light gun after the war.
I was a gunner but was seconded to the RE (EOD), they said because of my engineering degree but I suspect it was because I wasn't the greatest of gunners.I could drop a shell into the same field as the target at ten miles but apparently that isn't good enough. EOD was fun anyway. We cleared the old Woolwich Arsenal ranges of our old unexploded ordnance and found quite a lot of old Jerry bombs which had to be defused because of a housing estate they built right onto the ranges. It's ALL houses now, I hope we got all the ordnance, hahaha.
I'm working carefully on the mould and it's definitely improving, I'll take my time with it.
Thanks for everything. Cheers!
+David Phillips What a great story... Love it!.. Thanks for sharing Dave. It's stories like this from viewers like you, that make this channel so enjoyable for me. Glad to hear that you mould is improving... Cheers.
+David Phillips what an unsung legend :)
Very Beautiful rifle. It's in amazing condition. Awesome video. Very cool and Impressive.
Thanks
Hi Dan. Yes, it is beautiful.. It is restored though.
I spent five years gathering the parts for a No1 lee with the enfield barrel,the long tom here in Australia.And some bloody mate of mine talked me into selling to him,mongrel. lol that top hand guard is like rocking horse poo to find as well as the dust cover and mag cutoff. Ross
+eiclan What a shame. There is something different about these early Metfords and Enfields that outs them apart from the SMLEs... The length and the sights lend an air of "old fashioned-ness" to things... Cheers.
Beautiful!!!!!
Cheers!
Amazing video!
Verniusix Glad you liked it! Cheers.
Good presentation Rob, I really MUST get my No:4 out and give it an airing................
Duncan Andrews I bet that when you open the locker/closet that you keep it in, it'll leap right out and hug you! They are as faithful as a mongrel mutt!.... Look forward to hearing about it's first outing (evidently) in quite some time... :-) Cheers.
What a beautiful rifle
Beautiful Rifle
+MrThomass281 I certainly agree with you on that one. I am very lucky to have come across it! Cheers.
Well done! Thanks for sharing :D
ToreDL87 You are welcome. Thanks!
Where on earth did you find a Lee-Metford in such excellent condition?
Long story. Friend put me in touch with the previous owner. It is rebuilt. There is some info on it in previous videos.... It's a shooter, not a collector's piece.... Well, I mean that it is not in it's original condition so is less "valuable" to some..... Not to me though. :-)
@@britishmuzzleloaders It just matters how it looks like. It looks original and have all the original features and functions like an original, its done!
Great Shooting. Ballistics close to a 30.40 Krag. I wish my old Krag would shoot that straight.
Hugh Batesel What was the velocity of the service cartridge for the Krag? Weight of bullet? I lucked out with this rifle for sure. Cheers.
Out standing !
beautiful condition. a credit to you.
+N Legg Actually it's a credit to the fellow who restored it... He did a fantastic job.
Handsome old Gat ! long lee’s are neat !
They are!
beautiful old rifle
+Terry Wogan Yup... :-)
Good shooting .Looks like the Mac Blow logging roads near Squamish.
***** Thanks!
Good show
why do Enfield's hold to the right? is it just a sight issue?
+Gen Scinmore The only issue that I know of is with the early Magazine Lee Enfields.... and not "all Enfields".... When the Enfield rifling was adopted in 1895, it was thought, upon preliminary experiments and theories, that the bullet would drift to the left more so than with the Metford rifled barrel. This extra effect was found to be exaggerated and steps were taken from 1900 to remedy the overcorrection. These are mentioned in this video and the Introduction video on the LM here, on the channel...
britishmuzzleloaders thanks for the feedback :)
With the introduction of cooler burning powders that are in use today, I wonder if rifling utilizing the metford style would make a come back. I do know that a company called Blackhole armament produces rifles that utilize metford style rifling albeit with only three groves. From the tests I have seen it is an improvement in accuracy. The particular rifle was a modern produced AR15 with top quality components.
The Metford rifling was quite effective, if not for the cordite... no reason why it couldn't be used today.
an amazing video
Thank you.
@@britishmuzzleloaders ur absolutly welcome because that bullet flying through the air like a howitzer shell is absolutly fascinating.
Oh my gosh I want one so bad.
I would add my admiration for your videos. One of my interests is in what " obsolete" rifles were used by the LDV and Home Guard (Britain). I wonder whether they used martini henrys or sniders anywhere before they got P17s.
Maybe some Martini-Enfields.... glad you are enjoying the clips! Cheers.
Nice shoot'n TEX!
+Gruman Tomcat Cheers.
Another good video! Tell me, do you have the military marches playing thru loudspeakers whilst shooting or mix them in later? ; )
They are put in after.
I wish I could even see to 400 yds
I wish...
Great vid sir I have just aquired a very nice1897 metford pretty much as it was made with fair wear and tear for its age.i have shot with some original rounds with good results.the only thing missing is the bolt dust cover, any chance you would find me one? The rifle still has the old type safety at the rear of the bolt? If this helps.kind regards.nigelkavanagh
Sounds like a Mk II* MLM! Sorry, I can't help you with the dust cover....
More videos of the Lee-Metford and please consider doing a video on your rest.
PGTMG I've got a couple of projects up and coming on the Metford and the rest will feature in a "Shooting Kit" clip that I am working on... Cheers.
Very beautiful rifle! 😘👍Smooth as well as his younger brother the Lee Enfield.. i wonder if they issue some of these in WW1??.
Just for training of the Kitchener Volunteers.. not used in action... though the NZ Infantry were still using the MLE in Galipolli...
Wow you can even see the bullet drop.
I knw right
Very good video. Thank you. The Lee-Metford lines are certainly aesthetically pleasing, long, slender and relatively clean. Is there a dust cover attached to the bolt? Is the magazine a single column?
Charles Inglin HI Charles. Thanks for the kind words. I agree wholeheartedly about the lines of these rifles... Yes there is a dust cover attached to the bolt... The Mk I's version was screwed to the bolt with three screws vs the "clip-in" system on the Mk II and later Mk I and II Lee-Enfields. There is also a dust cover on the bolt head... The magazine in single column and is somewhat finicky to load with the last round or two... Most of this is better explained and shown here if you are so inclined... th-cam.com/video/4JUXL5mEOvk/w-d-xo.html . Cheers.
What was the music being played before the pipes started? I am a bandsman and I do love it when the flutes of the corps of drums plays with the band.
I'm sorry I don't know off the top of my head.
Neat! I love replicating old BP rounds. Where did you pick up the metford? I have and SMLE #1 MkIII, would it shoot about the same if loaded the same way or is the rifling twist to different?
+David Tiller Hi there. Just to be clear, this is not a replication of a black powder round... This is a replication of a smokeless round... BP and Lee Metfords is a huge red herring.... They were an interim solution only, while the Army selected a smokeless propellant... They didn't know which one to use and therefore pumped out a round using older technology until they could make up their mind.... 303 was always designed to be a smokeless calibre... Replicating the Mk I "Powder" round (as the BP round became known) is impossible... it was 70 grs of powder compressed into a pellet which was then inserted into the casing before necking.... Today, you can't get that much BP into a 303 case, ever.... As for different loads with different rifles, every rifle has a load that will work better... You have to work it up to find out!.... :-). I came by this rifle through a friend... He gave me a tip about it and the next week it was mine!... Cheers.
Thanks for the info. I will look for a heavy .303 bullet mold and start casting. I think I will be neck sizing too to make the brass last longer. I think I like the lower velocity of the lead load compared to the around 2400 fps of the spitzer loaded round used in WWI and WWII. Looks like it pounds the shoulder less too.
Is that kind of marvelous scene able to be taken by a normal camera if in the right condition? (like what you will take out during tours)
Nothing out of the ordinary... mostly the lighting with the sun behind (and the longer range...)
when can we expect your update on the mad minute? I'm curious to see how well you will do considering how well you did last time. greetings from Toronto! keep up the good shooting soldier!
HI Daniel. I've been puttering away at it from time to time. I have two SMLE videos in the works right now that will, if not showing more "best-in-a-minute" shooting, explore the whole subject of rapid fire with the SMLE, myth and realities.
britishmuzzleloaders I've seen those videos and it blew me away. no doubt that you could beat the record. if it wasn't for the fact that the cartridges were rimmed I'm sure you'd have it down pact. keep up the good work and be safe! I really enjoy your videos and the pride and work you put it. keep it up!
Thank you Daniel!
I'm curious how the accuracy of the Mk I Lee Metford compares to the accuracy of the Mk III SMLE due to the differences in rifling. Does the Metford rifling affect your accuracy more at range than the Enfield rifling?
Accuracy isn't any different. Many target shooters preferred the Metford rifling. It just wasn't resilient enough for cordite...
An other good video Rob.
Riflelock Thank you, sir.
Man I want a Lee Metford!
They are very hard to find, so go for it if you do!
In Australia the closest I can find is Magazine Lee-Enfield. Believe it or not, I found Boys AT rifles and Martini-Henries in my searches though.
Get them too! :-)
Holy friggin asscrackers I thought the Matrix bullet air trace was just a myth :O
+Galejro Hadn't heard of that one! No not a myth,..... just really cool, eh? Couldn't resist showing everybody. Cheers.
@@britishmuzzleloaders i have watched the rounds of my .455 go down range.is this common?
If God were a bolt action rifleman, I like to think He'd use a Lee rifle. Which model? Who knows, He works in mysterious ways ;)
Since we all know that God is German, he uses a Mauser.
That would be impossible, for his name is Thor, and he has the largest collection of Mausers in the Universe.
Pfft. Everyone knows God would only use a perfect bolt-action rifle, something man has yet to manufacture...
*cough* Gewehr 98 *cough*
Erwin Rommel how is the gewehr 98 perfect
Dubsy 102 It's the most evolved form of Paul Mauser's vision of the bolt-action rifle.
Awesome. Did you cast your own bullets?
pdalko Yes,... This might answer some questions.. th-cam.com/video/9LtUS3h3kio/w-d-xo.html ... Cheers.
do you cast your own bullets? I have a No4 mk 1 (T) and am looking for a good cast bullet to shoot from it. Wish I had some of the rifles you are showing. Keep up the good work and have lots of fun.
+1LRLRG Cheers. Yes I cast my bullets... Have a look here if you like, th-cam.com/video/9LtUS3h3kio/w-d-xo.html
🌲🇬🇧🏴📜(“NO NO NO NO NO GREAT~SIR,.... DO NOT EVER PUSH LEAD CAST BULLETS THROUGH A
NO 4MKI (T) or, A NO 4 MK II (T),.....
💎📜(“PLEASE LOCATE FOR YOUR
PRECIOUS RIFLE, A BOX OF SIERRA MATCHKING (174) GRAIN (BTHP) IN
CALIBRE: (.303) THEY ARE AVAILABLE,....
🌲🇬🇧🏴📜(“ROLLS ROYCE SERVICE, IN A CHAMPAGNE GLASS,.!”)
📜(“CHEERS OLD~BOY”)📜
🌲🇬🇧(“GSK/GSQ”)🏴🌲
🌲🇬🇧🏴📜(“SINCERELY,.....
SEAN M. SCOTT.
FLYING BOATS.
www.albairhu16.com
Again these video's of yours are excellent.
I use a Parker Hale Sporterised N04 Mk 1 * made by Savage in 1942.
She kicks like a mule .
May need to be a wimp and use a pad .
How do you manage all those rifles and kit .
Cheers
Graham near Chester UK
+Graham Gibbs Glad you enjoy them. By "manage" do you mean how do I organize them at home or how do I come by it all?... :-)... Most of it I have had for a very long time. Some of the upper body stuff I have come by fairly recently for reasonable prices off the inter web... The rifles, for the most part, are found, lonely and yearning for a kind, supportive owner, or again, off the inter web... Thanks Graham.
Hi Graham, I also have a Parker Hale Sporterised N04 Mk 1 * and I love it, I do not find the recoil that bad but the 1st centerfire rifles I fired were the FNC1A1 in 7.62 NATO at age 15
(Canadian version of the Belgian FAL )
Hi now fitted a replacement recoil pad of sorbothene.Much better than thin plastic.
Cheers
Great video thank you! Please can I come over from England and try these rifles?
Haha... Glad you enjoyed the clip! Cheers.
He's in Canada.
I'll get a plane :)
Gday mate just bought some 174gr moulds for my no1.
Big fan of your channel.
I don't know if you've heard of them but there's an Aussie company that makes mould for old military rifles and other unusual stuff. Called cast bullet engineering. I'm not affiliated with them in anyway I just thought you'd be interested in having a look since they'll ship internationally.
Hopefully with some experimentation I can get my alloys right and shoot mine as good as yours.
Any tips you'd have would be greatly appreciated.
And on an unrelated note at the end of your videos you have a royal cypher with crossed rifles underneath and I have a tattoo on my forearm I designed that looks very similar but with two martinis underneath. Where is that logo from and what's it for I'm just curious because it's almost identical to mine.
Cheers mate
Beau
Hi Beau. I most certainly have heard of CBE! I tried a mould of theirs but it wouldn't take the gas-check... Great quality mould, but the dimensions of the bullet were not what I needed..... Lost a chrony to one with a shed gas check...... They also were a bit on the small side... .311 or .312.... I went with a .316 from NOE. Very similar bullet but fatter. The tattoo actually isn't crossed rifles. What you are seeing are the tops of antlers and a coronet and cypher.
britishmuzzleloaders yeah I thought you would have but you never know. Projies perhaps abit small but my barrel slugs at 312 and moulds are 313 and I'll most likely get 314 after casting.
That's a bugger about the gas check. The mould I got takes them. Hopefully the 30 cal checks I got fit them.
Another thing that may take your interest, I work in a gun store down here in Victoria Australia and we have a socket bayonet stamped with the east India company logo but I have no idea what it's for, probably not ever gonna part with it as it's just an interesting piece to have. Doesn't quiet match any others I've seen. If you reckon you could identify it shoot us an email at beaunottage@gmail.com and I'll send you some photos.
Hoping for more videos soon have a good one. And thanks for the reply
That is one nice looking LM :). Did you have it re-blued or is that how you got it?.
Peter Martini Yes it certainly is... It came like that.. I had the pleasure of talking to the fellow who had it done/worked on it and there was a lot of good quality work go into it... New barrel, headspacing, etc,... it was done to be a "shooter" and I certainly enjoy fulfilling that criteria....! Cheers.
I am aware of the controversy during the Boer war about either side using dum dum bullets. Are they equivalent to the modern hollow point bullets or just softer lead?
The Mark III, IV, and V were all expanding... the Mk III was soft point and the Mk IV and V were hollow point.
Thank goodness my ShtLE has a blade front sight instead of a barleycorn. All of my Mauser rifles have a pyramid style front sight v-notch rear, and those sights are terrible. Someone also replaced the barleycorn on my repro P58 Naval Rifle with a blade for competition, making it far nicer to look through than my repro 1861 Springfield.
Francis Borek At least it doesn't have the original Mk I sights... The Lewes sight must have taken some getting used to...
How the heck did they even fight with those sight, I'll never know.
Francis Borek You mean the Lewes? or just barleycorns in general?
Barleycorns in general.
Greetings. Can you fire currently manufactured .303 in these beautiful rifles? Thank you for the videos too!
Yes. Though the sights might not match up as these were made for Mk I-VI 303 which was different from the Mk VII which is what modern 303 is based on.
@@britishmuzzleloaders
Thank you for the reply. Seems the action has a short-throw and drops the hand right near the trigger. Like the No1 marks. What is your thought? Spare parts would be tough to find!
@@Oneofthetwelve The action is the same as every other Lee rifle..
Will you ever post snider videos? I would love to see more of those videos on TH-cam.
Braden Robertson Hi there.... In order to post Snider Videos I first must have, yup, you guessed it,..... a Snider..... It's on the list and I am keeping my eyes open for a good one. Once I do, there will be a series just like that done with the Enfield, the Martini and the Baker.... Don't know when, but it will happen.... I am just as curious as you. Cheers.
britishmuzzleloaders Check out Ellwood Epps they have a beauty, it's catalog number is 49392.
Oatmeal Savage Ah yes... I know the site/store but I haven't looked there in a while.. Thanks.
+britishmuzzleloaders I too hope you acquire one and give it a proper run down. TH-cam has very few decent informative snider videos.
+spaxspore Stand by....
cracking good shooting, old boy...
Thank you very much!
Here is what I am wondering: The Metford in service had a short barrel life of 5 to 6,000 rounds when they swapped from the Mk.1 black powder loaded to the Mk.2 cordite loaded .303. Cordite to my understanding is a very hot burning propellant and that caused most of the wear. I know you use IMR from your reloading videos and to my knowledge it is colder burning. In your experience do you think that the barrel life improved with your rifle with IMR vs Cordite?
I've hardly shot it enough to even think about wearing out the barrel.... :-)
Is the metford bolt easier/smoother than the later SMLE? I ask because watching you cycle the metford it seems faster. Or is there a shorter throw?
They are the same, with cosmetic differences.
The mk 1 lee mettord oldest rifle that that use from 1890s this rifle that i use for hunting wildpig
Nice!
Hi , are you using a gas check on your bullets ? Well Done vid
+Steve WW1 Yup... Here's the reloading clip...
th-cam.com/video/9LtUS3h3kio/w-d-xo.html
Moses, aka, Charlton Heston said "Thou shall not covet another man's rifle", but I do.
Oatmeal Savage It's a beauty, for sure... I am very lucky.. Cheers.
How rare are Lee-Metford rifles in comparison to other ex British service rifles? And for one in good condition what is the usual price point? My guess is they are easier to find online, but that being said I did once find a Martini-Henry in excellent shape at Cabela's for under $400.00 USD.
+The Pipe Maker's Craft They are much rarer than say a No1 Mk III* or a No4... This one came my way and I jumped on it. I think you are right about looking online... you can get a much better feel for what things are going for... Cheers.
if the range is 400 but you have to set the sights at 500, would a lighter bullit make the sight setting match range to target?
Ballistically yes,... but nobody makes .316 mould in 180 grain... and I wanted a bullet that corresponded to the early Mks of ammo, and when I worked up this round, the most accurate was the load I am using here, which was slightly slower than a service round. This necessitates oversetting the sights...
Are there any major difference in firing characteristics between the Lee Metford and Lee Enfield?
Not really... I am away from my references and can't remember when the two stage trigger was introduced... That would be the only real difference.
Why is it so impossibly hard to find any of the early Lee Enfields?
They just aren't out there as much....?
Considering the age, that rifle seems to be in tip top condition. I assume the rifling is still OK
+Adrian Larkins Hi there. The rifle has been rebuilt and is in excellent condition with strong rifling. It is definitely a shooter! Cheers.
I've never even fired a rifle of any type so excuse me LOL. But do you think the Lee Metford was really superior to the Lee Enfield series? I've read the Lee Metford was originally designed to use black powder and was only later adapted to use smokeless ammunition though other nations kept using rifles of the same generation well into the 1940s, such as the 1895 Dutch Mauser and the Mosin Nagant in its pre-1931 form. I've also read that the British were considering replacing the SMLE in 1913. But it seems to this untutored eye that the Lee Metford could have been kept in service through 1914-18 without any real drop in combat effectiveness. Was the Enfield much better than the Metford?
+Butts Lane Sorry for the long question ha ha!!
+Butts Lane No problem! They were essentially the same rifle.... So no, I don't think that the LM was superior to the LE... or vice versa...
The LM was not developed for Black Powder.... the 303 was designed as a smokeless round... the BP version was only implemented due to the type of smokeless powder having not been decided on by the late 1880s... The BP was a stop-gap.... and is a red herring as it relate to Lee rifles and 303 cartridges... Smokeless ammo was manufactured from 1891 and all BP ammunition was withdrawn from service in 1894.... LM's were manufactured into 1896.
The rifle was not "adapted" for smokeless ammunition. All marks of LM/LE could shoot smokeless ammunition. The Enfield rifling came about, not because the Metford rifling didn't work, but because it (or rather the throat) wore too fast with the smokeless powder the Army chose (cordite) as it burned very hot. The Enfield rifling (which was not anything new) was more resilient and the barrels lasted longer. Indeed, among competitive shooters, it was considered that Metford rifling was superior.
Yes, the Army was considering adopting a Mauser actioned, reduced calibre rifle (P13). The War broke out and that all went into hibernation (for the most part).
The MLE was used into the Great War in a modified form... The Charger Loading Lee Enfield (CLLE)... This was a MLE converted to charger loading by the addition of a bridge over the bolt. It was used by Territorial and second line units and saw service in Gallipoli and also in France in 1914/early 1915. It was stop gap and when enough SMLEs were available, they were replaced...
Over all, you can't really say "Was the Enfield much better than the Metford?" or "But do you think the Lee Metford was really superior to the Lee Enfield series?"... They were only incrementally different... Was the long barrel of the MLM/MLE better than the short of the SMLE? Yes, for accuracy, no for handiness. Was the extra accuracy afforded really important?.. No, not in the greater "War fighting" sense. Was the MLM better than the MLM? No,.... They functioned exactly the same. The only way to tell the difference between a Mk II* MLM and a Mk I MLE is by looking down the barrel. Externally, they are identical.
Hope this helps. Cheers.
+britishmuzzleloaders Thanks for taking the time on a comprehensive reply. It's clarified those questions for me!
Was there a reason they didnt use clips to charge the magazine with the Metford?
+sugarnads They hadn't "got there" by that time... It took the Boer War for charger loading to be implemented. Some Mk II Metfords (after having the barrels changed) , but mostly Magazine Lee Enfields were modified with a charger bridge after the War.
britishmuzzleloaders gotcha. Lol sorry for the ridiculously delayed reply. I think i was having issues with notification back then
yup, lol, looks like what i see firing my MK1(powder) replicas at anything over 200! would love a metford, but, they've gotten damn pricy around here!
kingswoodkid1985 Hi there. In your "replicas", how much BP/how fast? In Enfield rifling I assume. What kind of projectile? Things must get rather fouled up after a few rounds, eh? Cheers.
65 grains of 2f, behind a 220grain lead round nose@.312, no chrony, but not getting leading so guessing aroung 1500 fps, yeah, in a no1mk3, it can get gunky after about 50rounds, but i rarely fire that many without cleaning, she's mainly a hunting rifle
I'm not the only one who shoots cast bullets in 303
Nope!
No, don't hold back, tell us what you really think about those sights.
They are pretty round... A blade is better for precision, I think.
I've peered over more than one fuzzy barleycorn. Your pyramid in a railroad cut analogy is apt..
17 cents a round? Bloody hell that's cheap.
Pays to cast!
What does this needle do?
Which needle?
Lee-Enfield's Bigger Brother
What do u mean when u say the swirl
The distortion of the light through the swirling air behind the bullet.
britishmuzzleloaders ow thanks lol I did not notice that but love seeing the bullet curve down lol
So you can just use store-bought ammunition in those Medford rifle barrels?
Yes.
What nation used the gun?
James Mcmurrough British Empire.
***** Thanks Noah. Although, specifically, more of the "British Army" and a bit less of the "Empire". This rifle was superseded by first the Mk II Lee Metford and then by the Lee Enfield.... Most of the "Empire" adopted the Lee "Enfield" later into the 1890s... This is typical of the Canadian acquisition too. Noah, I seem to be able to reply here but not to your another comment.. Strange... Cheers.
britishmuzzleloaders Makes since, thanks for the informed answer, but cheers anyways
Re. the "barleycorn" sight system. Modern shooters, especially those familiar with handguns, try to use it like a square-post-and-square-notch sight. Then they complain that the system is imprecise and the rifle shoots high.Rifles made to hunt African dangerous game generally were fitted with "express" sights. Front sight is a pyramid, rear sight is a v-notch, shallow in relation to its width. Correct sight picture is the tip of the pyramid centered in the bottom of the V, and that's how the sights are regulated to the ammo. At its "zero distance", the rifle won't shoot high. With practice, target acquisition is fast and aim is reasonably precise.Most dangerous game of all is an armed enemy. I'm guessing that the sighting system is a carry-over from civilian rifle-building practice, which is often in advance of military practice.
The correct sight picture with these sights (and there are three of them) are either the "fine sight", the "half sight", and the "full sight".... The Mk I Martini Henry had open express style sights but these were replaced in later marks with conventional v notch, back sights.
You've obviously done plenty of research, so I'll defer to your expertise. Thanks, I learned something today. But what you describe would only be possible with a well-trained professional army. Contemporary French and German rifles had similar sights, because they're pretty much soldier-proof. Their battle-sight zero with the "express" or "fine" sight picture and ball ammo is about 400 metres. That was problematic at times, see Erwin Rommel's account of fighting in the Ardennes in 1914 in his book "Infantry Attacks".