1:8 Twist will NOT stabilise 55gr BULLETS???
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2024
- Can you stabilise 55gr .223 Remington in a 1:8 twist barrel? How does twist rate work? Am I a fudd? All these questions answered in today's episode.
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Thanks for the video mate! Much appreciated. Feel free to pin this comment. Just want to quickly clarify a couple points.
1. It was a poor choice of words from my end, it should have said,: "I believe based on my conversations with multiple barrel manufacturers who stated the 1/12 will stabilise the 55gr "better" than 1/8 (because who am I to have an qualified opinion, they are the experts), rather than saying it doesn't stabilise, which was just me being a lasy typer..... hindsight I should have taken the time and explained 😂 ah well, you made a great video out of it 😜 and people love it!
2. We are super appreciative of the feedback from everyone and make the most effort to read every single comment. We certainly take this into account as we want to make a better rifle for the Australian market. I will send out a survey to the current customers who have preordered the Eureka and ask (as you did) for feedback as we are about to place the barrel orders coming week. I suspect the same results though.
3. Test fire of the Eureka should be conducted coming week and we will release info and videos asap.
Again, big thanks to everyone for your feedback, please keep it coming.
We have already squared up the forend and changed the buttstock based on the feedback (updated design will be on the eurekaguns.au website shortly) and are working on other features....soon more
Bastian Green, Owner of ASA
G'day again Bastian,
Thanks for clarifying those points for everyone. I knew what you meant about the barrels, but also wanted to spark some conversation amongst Australian shooters. There is a phenomenon on the internet called "Cunningham's Law" - where instead of posing a question, you irrefutably state something as true and correct.... people can't help themselves but to step in and correct it or give their opinion. Its a fantastic tool for getting greater response and reach.
I'm glad my videos are helping spread the good work of the Eureka Stockade, and wish you all the best in your endeavour. Thank you for listening to the feedback, you're the only company I know of that is doing that.
Ed, guy on the internet.
Congratulations for having a go & thanks for supporting & listening to Aussie shooters. Next can i have a 308 please. 👍
Thanks mate, much appreciated. Yes the 308 will come out shortly after....maybe 6 months later. First, we will release a 9mm predominantly for the use of IPSC 3 Gun Competitions.....and because it is a minor change to the design vs a .308 etc. @@craigparker4108
@@AustralianSportingAgencies Great news can't wait to see them cheers.
Thanks @@craigparker4108 Test fire will be next week, so expect new videos soon :) Fingers Crossed
(Texan) I have used both twist rates when serving in the Army. Your analysis is spot on. I currently use 1 in 7 in all my AR platforms as it allows versatility in my loads, (556). That being said , 55gr usually make 1.5 groups a 100 yards, my 77 gr loads make 1 ragged hole. Either will smoke a coyote out to 300 yards all day long. The commentor who threw shade on the fine folks down under, probably never served with any Aussie’s, and should remember y’all gave us Steve Irwin, we gave y’all Dylan Mulvaney.
I served at Fort Bliss a few years back on exchange. I'd love to go back some day and do some Texas style hunting! What a fantastic place.
What is the 77 gr projectile? Is it a hollow point boat tail match bullet versus the 55 gr FMJ?
Bullet type and construction probably make more difference than twist rate in your case.
I would like to find a 55 gr HPBT that is consistently available on the market. Hornady makes one but its availability is hit or miss.
We gave Austalia Quigley Down Under
And we saved Australia from a massive Japanese invasion during WWII at the Battle of Midway.
(Aussie) I've had great results for decades with a CZ 527 that has a 1:9 twist. 50gr up to 75gr, but mostly I shoot 55gr or 68/69gr. My vote would be 1:8 ;)
Federal used to make a .223 Rem ammunition with a 50 gr Tipped Varmint bullet. In a zCZ 527 at 100 yards 3 shots always touched and generally looked like one 30 caliber hole. BassPro sold it for less than $10 per box. Once a year, our local store sold it less than $8. Sadly Federal quit loading it. Will have to look for a replacement at some point. Frontier makes a 55gr HPBT Match round. That shoots less than MOA out of a couple of 1:8 rifles. So there is that. For 1:7 try IMI 77gr Razor-Core just once. That generally performs very well.
Hey Ed. Great topic mate I just purchased a tikka t3x super varmint in 223 1:8 twist 3 month ago after working on hand loads extensively for the first month 69 gn 62gn 53 and 55 gn. The best I found is the sierra 55gn gamekings I'm getting sub 1/4 in at 100 m constantly and out to 300 m 3 in groups in good conditions so stability is not an issue 🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺
That's great to hear
Twist rate seems to be more important on paper than it ever is in the real world. Bullet construction matched up with the task it needs to do is more of a deciding factor than twist rate. I do agree that rpm is a factor though. Over spinning a fragile bullet can cause it to self destruct. USA here.
I’m From U.S., I have 1/8 twist on an chrome line 18” barreled AR that’s handlaped (for what it’s worth) and I get decent groups from match ammo in 55gr, 69gr, 77gr, this set up also allows me to maximize performance on wide range of ammo. Most of my other ARs have a 1/7 twist barrel which seem to stabilize 55gr pretty good. i guess the quality of ammo has much more of a
factor when maximizing performance.
1 in 8 twist is way better, far more people want a range of 55gr to 70gr than 55gr and below, this range has the most uses. ASA needs to read the market and just look at what most of the AR type platform guns available currently in AUS are using. I mean the taipan uses 1 in 8 and can be crazy accurate with 55gr.
You can get 1:8 twist if you actually researched it you would know
Bravo Company along with Kyle Defoor has proven that a 1/7.7 twist rate is optimal for 77gr OTM's. I shoot a lot of 55gr M193 and various 77gr SMK OTM 5.56. 1:8 seems to be more accurate than 1/7 with 55gr. I have various lengths of 1/8 twist barrels from Sionics and Criterion. And it seems to be a universal truth with all of them. Compared to my 1/7 twist barrels. And! With 77gr as well.
They group below 2.25 MOA with most 5.56mm spec ammo. Which is pretty good. All are 41V50 steel. 3 are QPQ and 6 are chrome lined.
I miss going to Australia. Been 6 times in my Marine Corps days. It was the highlight of my deployments. Love from 🇺🇸
Love my 223's both in 1-8 both shoot the 50 and 55g pills well. I not too long ago had a 222 built with a 1-12 twist barrel as opposed to 1-14. With the newer projectiles has made all the diffrence.
Thats good to hear
Thanks Ed, I have heard this debate before at many ranges, and I have just asked the individuals if they are happy with their accuracy with the 55gr pills! And the answer is always YES. But one individual will say what if I wanted to shoot a Roo out to 500mtrs. I ask, can you see that far??? I rest my case. Cheers
Aussie shooter here. Most of my shooting is long range target use. My 1st rifle was a then new ruger k77 vt chambered in .223 with a factory 1:12 twist that I still use out to 600 metres. My favourite load for that rifle used a 62gn Remington hpbt over 23.5 gns of ar2206 powder. I was able to stabilise this projectile however wasn't able to stabilise anything heavier. One of my annoyances with this rifle was that I was often beaten by other competitors using faster twist barrels and heavier projectiles. I have never heard of 55gn projectiles not being stabilised on a 1:8 twist.
Thats a bummer being capped to 62gr dude, always annoying when that happens. That's one of the reasons I rebarreled my 22-250.
Americun I have a 1/8 twist AR with a 20 inch barrel and I shoot 55 grain because it's the cheapest. I use a primary arms 3x reticle because I usually shoot at targets (varmint) at around 100 yards or less usually from a standing position. I'm glad you said 55 grain is OK because I have a lot of it.
I think they are laying out a lot of money and they want a solid return on their investment. They don’t want to upset a hardcore buyer that can discredit them. I admire the gusto of the manufacturer for stepping out and doing business, what could help is a conversation with ADI which is another Australian company that could bring some light on the subject, but also if Americans love that twist there is probably a reason.
Either way I have ordered my eureka.
I am loving what they are doing, and I hope the rifles are awesome. I'm very keen to get my hands on one.
hi i know its a while ago you did this vid , but i have to say i have the Taipan X 223/556 and this is what i got at a 100yrds with a 1:8 twist a .047 of an inch 👍, like your vids mate
my lithgow 223 with 1:9 twist shoots a few 55 grainers in neat little clovers at 100,
furthest I've taken them out to is 685 meters at a 300mm gong and worked just fine with no wind
can't imagine a good 1:8 barrel doing any different
In my experience, twist rate has not been a guarantee if it'll stabilize different weight projectiles/group well or not. I have a Swan 20" 1:9 223 Wylde barrel, and it shoots the ADI 55gr Blitzking factory load just as well as the ADI 69gr Matchking factory load, and my 77gr Matchking, and 55gr VMAX handloads. That is to say, if I do the load development, and put in the fundamentals, sub-MOA practically clover-leafing.
My personal choice would be 1:9 twist, it has shot 40g - 68g with no problems in a 20" Shilen barrel, so I can't see why a 1:8 twist won't work either.
I have a well worn savage heavy varmint in 223 rem with a 1:9 twist ss 26" barrel. It shoots 40gn v-max @3800fps and 75gn v-max @2800 fps with alarming accuracy.. the 40gn are great on rabbits and such, very little recoil, see it all happen through the scope, the 75gn are great for bucking the wind, and are spectacular on thin skinned game. I see no reason whatsoever that a 1:8 twist won't stabilise a 55gn at 223 rem velocities. Even out of 16" barrels. This is what I've found over the last 25 years of competition and vermin control, Mick Ohman .......
My CZ 527 has a 1:9 twist, and I get 2" groups at 300 mtrs, with 52gr BTHP Hornady, hand loads.
Canuck here. Enjoying the knowledge and comments guys!
Tried everything from 35g hornet projectiles to 90gr Sierra in my 1/7 1/8 rifles no real accuracy issues, just build a load to suit.
My biggest finding is with light varminter projectiles 60gr and less, is it helps them become super expolody on impact, ie rabbits pink mist 😎
I think the fact that a 1 in 12 twist was the downfall of the 244 Remington 50 odd years ago.
It was released around the same time as the 243 Winchester which had a 1 in 10 originally I think and was able to stabilize the 100gr pills where the 244 could not.
I agree 1 in 8 for the 6.5mm and down is the most versatile twist rate.
AUS QLD
Yep it had a 1:12 twist originally and then when it was re-released as 6mm Remington it went to 1:9, but the damage was already done.
@@fhckoutdoors yet the 223 has worked fine with 1:12 twist and 55gr bullets. It’s only because now high bc bullets are the fashion that people want fast twist barrel even if they are only going to shoot 55gr bullets
(Southern USA) New AR owner here, never personally shot it... but always enjoy both deep cleaning the booger and buying ammo for my boys to shot them more for me (lol). Not kidding, I just enjoy cleaning them (setting them up with scope/etc) more than shooting and obviously I enjoy watching videos on guns. Anyhoo, I Had to look up the twist rate (1:7) of my AR cause I was curious... my ammo (both brands from my local gun shot) were 55 grain. Thanks for the video, it was long winded and interesting (and not safe language around my kids).
Why not use 1:9 like howa offers
Australian here. I own a 1:9 and a 1:8 twist 223 (the 1:8 is a 223AI), both have had zero issue with 55gr projectiles. I would never buy a 1:12 twist 223, there are zero downsides to a faster twist rate for majority of shooters. The comments regarding the 1:12 just sounds like old boomer fudd logic...................in that there is no logic, it's just rubbish heard at a range and regurgitated as fact.
I love a bit of fudd-lore.
Some people seem to think every part of the SAAMI spec is to never be deviated from even if it is 50+ years old. See 6.5x55 for reference.
1:8 Twist will NOT stabilise 55gr BULLETS???
Yes it will. So will any twist common in .223/5.56 rifles. Just go to the Practical Accuracy TH-cam channel to see videos of it. Folks need to stop with the misinformation. Now the accuracy might not be as good from one twist to another but the bullet will stabilize. Just read what the manufacturer says on the ammo box. One twist or another is preferred for better accuracy given the bullet size, weight, shape, and type. But that does not mean they won't stabilize.
53grn vmax over 26grns of adi benchmark 2 in a 20inch 1 in 8 twist howa mini action at 3250 is very accurate.
I also use 55grn super roo's and 69grn sierra matchkings successfully so I'd choose 1 in 8 twist for sure
Cheers Daryl from Australia
My 223 is 1:8 twist, I went that rate for bullet selection choice, since I’m interested in 55gr and up weight bullets, I can’t see why anyone would want to hamstring themselves with a higher twist rate for a 223 in Australia.
I will add in my experience with the faster twist rate, you will see pressure signs earlier in your load development, so if all you want to run is 55gr then you may get higher FPS figures before you get pressure signs, but that’s the only reason I can see why anyone would go 1:12 these days?
Hi Ed, only 2 weeks ago I shot the ADI 55gr Blitzkings through my Tikka 1:8 .223 no problems at all, grouped like a mofo 👌. Gave the 55gr Gamekings a shoot at the same time, shredded apart every shot. Ended up buying a 900 can of the Blitzkings 👍 Go figure as normal judgement would suggest that the Blitzkings would have a thinner jacket than the Gamekings... apparently not 🤷🏼♂️
Games kings dejacketed? That is very interesting. I've never had a drama with them in my 22-250 and thats a hell of a lot faster. Was that ADI ammo?
Yeah dude, dejacketed completely, shotgun spray style. As I said, it was an eye opener as my hypothesis was the opposite with the Blitzkings.
@@Gillies878 That is super interesting. How many did you fire? First time I've heard of that from 223 from a first hand account, so sorry for the million questions. This really interests my ballistics tism.
Shot about 15 rnds of the Gamekings before I gave up. Around 60 of the the Blitzkings. I'll send you the product batch code for both.
@@Gillies878 Thanks mate! I suspect there is something going on with that batch
My ruger ranch is grouping around 2 to 3 inches at 50m with winchester 55grain 1.8 twist. Mostly due to my poor shooting lol.
At least your honest. At 50m my ar with 1/9 shoots 3/8 inch groups
@@jakespottedhorse45 I'm now shooting just a touch over an inch.
Try different ammo, In the bullet weight you prefer.
Florida USA got a ruger 556 mpr 18” barrel it has a 1.8 and I have a 11.5 556 that’s 1.7 twist and I shot 55 just fine my friend got a iwi 16” mid length with a 1.7 and he has no problem with 55 we mostly shoot 55 grain or the 62 grain green tips because of cost
(Aussie) every 223 I’ve owned has had a 1:8 barrel and I’ve never had a problem with stability. But even though I pretty much only ever shoot 55gr I would still prefer the 1:8 twist barrel so if I do want to shoot the heavier pills sometime I still know it will perform well.
Well put. Its about having the flexibility.
Thanks for the vid mate
My short barrel Howa mini has a 1/8 and shoots 55gr well inside MOA
Victoria Australia, 1in8 twist for me. This topic certainly does get the juices flowing in the comments, i noticed kicked over 7k subs. Top stuff!
Thanks mate! Ticked over to 7k on new years day, so thats a good way to start the year thats for sure!
Just a quick note running a poll like this. Ideally you would want to be able to disseminate the sophistication level of different respondents. It's always better (with product design) to have something that meets 'needs' as a priority. AKA, ask a bunch of 5-year-olds what they want for breakfast.
My old man (220 swift, don't know twist rate) & uncle (223 1:12) went halves in some 55gr bullets for handloads (think they were varmint grenades) and they wouldn't stabilise through either rifle no matter what they tried. My brothers 223 (howa 1:8) sends them no worries. My howa 1:8 shoots 55gr game kings 1" at 100m. Also interesting to learn that too much twist can de jacket too light a bullet, appreciate that info (Aus)
The swift was likely a 1:14. Glad you are getting some good accuracy with your 1:8 barrels.
A friend loaded some thin skinned Hornady 50gr SX in his 220 Swift. It was funny watching them through spotting scope when they came apart at about 25-30M down range. IMO, it was the velocity that did them in.
My 1:7" HK243 shoots the 36 Grain Barnes Varmint Grenade just as well as the 69 Grain SMK. I can't go higher due to the magazine lenght It shoots both 1/4" if I do my part all handloads
I’m here to tell you, I just shot a 100 yard .410” 5 shot group with 55 grain Hornady VMAX from a 20” Wilson Combat Super Sniper .223 Wylde upper with 1/8 twist. New Starline brass, H335 powder and CCI #450 primers. Don’t poo poo the 55s with 1/8 twist.
NSW - 1:8 because I've never had any reason to change. All my .223's in 1:8 shoot nice using 55gn projectiles. Just put up another poll and schoot 😁
( Aussie) I have a ruger Scout in 5.56, and my uncle owns a ruger predator in 223. Same action, different barrel.
Scout 16.5 inch 1-8 twist
Predator 22inch ( I believe) but is definitely 1-12 twist. Both are very accurate rifles. However the scout will shoot basically anything from 50gr to 75gr factory loads at worst 1.5 MOA, but mostly MOA or sub( apart from winchest 64gr, which would shoot 2.5 inch at 100m), while the predator will start to struggle with anything over 62gr ( 2 MOA +) under that is MOA or better also
Obviously, it's just one blokes anecdote.
It's good to see some more thought being put into some new guns here. Perhaps some test guns given to some contract chopper shooters to torture test would give a good idea of reliability
Wached hundrends of rifle reviews, twist rate is rarely mentioned. It's a shame. I'm a 1:9 guy.
(American) I have an AR in 1:7 and 1:8 and my dad has a lever action (yes, lever action) with a 1:9 twist. They all stabilize 55 grain bullets just fine, however the 1:9 has tighter groups, the 1:7 isn't as good as the 1:8. The thing to remember here is that over stabilization isn't a binary, your groups will slowly start to open up as the bullet becomes more over stabilized until it de-jackets. Given all the other variables, it's very difficult to tell if over stabilization is actually the cause of decreased accuracy, you would need a very large test over hundreds of barrels with thousands of rounds each in different kinds of rifles. Maybe my dad just got lucky and got a better barrel, maybe his is more accurate because it isn't a semi-automatic. Maybe my AR barrels suck, my 1:7 is 5.56 nitride and my 1:8 is wylde stainless...
Something else to note, I think people are focusing too much on matching the rifle to the ammo they intend to use when they should be matching the ammo to the rifle. That being said, if I had my choice of twist rates I would pick 1:9 for a varmint/predator gun, but I'm happy with 1:8 and I care much more about other factors
Well there's a little more to it, the quality and type of rifling makes a difference. Ive a precision 1:8 223 wylde barrel 69grn Sierra match doesn't do good but not bad either, considering groups ive seen from mass production setups. 55 does really good, but 50gn hornady vmax varmint rds. Absolute laser! Aswell as 65gr match. Crazy thing really is bullet profile buy every different manufacturer of 55grain ammo. And projectiles will all have different profiles
(1:8 American) I look at a lot of the comments and many talk about accuracy not stability. A 1:8 twist will accommodate stability for the widest range grain of bullet. That does not equate to accuracy. For instance, I have a 1:8 with a 20" barrel and a Wylde chamber. Now when talking just the grain of the bullet, I have shot 50, 52, 53, 55, 62, 64, 68, 69, 75 and 77 grain bullets. All of them stabilized in that I never shot one keyhole round that would indicate the round was tumbling. Now so far as accuracy is concerned, and Im talking 100yds here, 50, 52, 53, 55, 64, and 68 grain all shot very accurately with all the 50's stuff shooting sub moa 1/2" in most cases. 62, 69, 75 and 77 was a big let down with the Blackhills Sierra Match 77 grain shooting the worst. The Wylde chamber might have something to do with my results, so I just put together the exact setup with 556 chambered 1:8 with 20" that I am going to run those ammos through to see if there is a difference. General rules of guns are twist rate is based on the largest bullet you are going to shoot that you need stabilized and length of barrel equates to distance you will be shooting for maximum velocity and matched chamber as well as smooth rifling and straight, concentric bore equate to accuracy.
55 grain bullets will absolutely work in a 1:8 twist. Story over.
1/12" to 1/9" twist is optimal for 55gr pills. Faster twists will "overstabilize" the lighter bullets which is not any easy concept to articulate. A bullet that is spinning too fast will maintain its orientation to the bore after the trajectory passes the high point leading to reduced accuracy at range but this is hard to demonstrate. The punchline is that 55gr pills out of a 1/7" have NO better accuracy 300m+ than out of a slower twist but the heavier bullets DO stabilize better out of the faster twist. I shoot 55gr out of both my 1/7" twist 5.56x45 guns with perfectly satisfactory accuracy out to 300m and use 68gr, 75gr and 77gr for distances over that.
I use a 1 in 8" twist barrel and it stabilizes everything from 35 grain all the way to 77 grain 😯🧐😏🇺🇸🗽
I've had both 1/8 and 1/12, both shot my 55g vmax handloads under or around half MOA, I currently have a Tikka T3x pollyfade with the 1/12 twist and have started shooting 53grn vmax with excellent results! I don't know if that was helpful or not but thought I'd share anyway 👍
Always happy to hear your thoughts mate.
The only twist I am familiar with is Chubby Checker Twist.
But! on a serious note..... get to the range and have the same make of rifle with the same length barrel with different twists and show us the results in real time. Just say'n you know.
(au) 1:8, you're nuts if you release it in 1:12
I agree.
I stopped worrying about twist rates years ago. IMO it’s finding a bullet/ powder combo your barrel likes. My fast twist 556 doesn’t like 40 grain Vmax, but it will shoot 40 grain Nosler ballistic tips all in the same hole at 200 yards. lol. Same with a couple of fast twist 243 uppers. I was procrastinating on buying them for years because the twists were too fast and I wanted to shoot 55 grain and 60 grain .243 projectiles. Both cheap uppers shoot many of my ladder tests under half MOA with the light projectiles. Seems like it’s more of a bullet powder combo that the barrels prefer in my guns. Both uppers will shoot . 2” to .3” Consistently.
The issue today in my opinion is everyone thinks they need a 1 in 7" twist to stabilize 77 grain thats just not true just look at .22arc they use a 1in7" twist and i have seen them stabilize 88 grain projectiles✌️🗽🇺🇸
(USA) The only reason to get a 1:12 twist .223, is if you plan on mainly shooting thin skinned 40-50 gr varmint bullets. I have my old 'triple deuce' .222 Rem custom bolt rifle for those types of loads. For semi auto AR type rifles, I prefer 1:9/1:8/1:7 twist rifles.
Getting great groups with adi world class 55gr in a howa miniaction with 1in8 twist, 20' barrel. (Aussie)
Just brought the new 223 with a 1-8. Loaded up some 50gr vmax’s with 21gr of AR 2207 and I’m getting some really impressive groups. I too have heard that 1-8 won’t stabilise 55 and under so I did this for shits and gigs.
Great to hear! What rifle?
@@fhckoutdoorsnew taipan x. So far it’s pretty good but this stockade it’s look pretty good
@@BananaMagsinPyjamas I'm glad the X is a good rifle. Makes up for the issues they had with the lite.
1 in 8 is the best compromise twist rate. Everything on a rifle is a compromise in some shape or fashion from trigger on up to optic. 55 gr stabilizes fine from my experience. 35 gr much less so. 1 in 12 I rarely see offered in my area so most people around me go 1 in 7 or 1 in 8.
My 16” 223wylde with a 1:8 twist will shoot 55gr bullets just fine , I have a hand load that I worked up using 55gr V-Max bullets over some varget that will put 5 rounds in a 1/2” group at 100 yards .
Maybe some 1:8 twist bbls don’t shoot 55grainers well but mine has no problem with 55’s 🤷🏿♂️
(NZ)
Hey mate,
Great vids, new subscriber and i reckon your content is awesome, keep up the great work.
For me 1:8 twist is a great option.
Cheers
They said that about 1-7 also! The problem is 55gr FMJ an they are crappy bullets. If you want accuracy shoot good match bullets.
[aussie] I will be using 55gr for IPSC comp and 62gr for Varmints , mainly foxes . 1:8 twist for me , I am wanting tight groups at up to 200 metres
I used 40 grain Hornady bullets in my 1:8 Tikka being pushed out pretty quick and they are extremely accurate and didn't come apart. Anything less than 1:8 is too limiting in what bullets you can use.
Thank you so much for posting this haha. Keep up the content legend
You're welcome.
It will, I own such a barrel.
(Aussie) 1:8 probably only shoot 55g vmax anyhow. Like hear your thoughts on the Chimera 223
Bit late on the vote, looks like they have listened to the feedback
1:8 for 55-75gr is spot on based on my experience. (Aussie)
(Aussie) 1 in 8 would be my choice for the range of bullet weights I’d use.
Don't you lose velocity as the twist increases and increase chamber pressure? With the same weight bullet.
Good point. Yes you do, but its only very minor. Increased twist does make pressures higher though, so something to consider for handloaders.
1-8 au
Love your work 👍
(AUS) Very interesting. Did some research before I bought my Howa .223 mini action with a 1:8 twist. With the information that was available 3-4 years ago, I decided to buy two boxes of 55gr rounds and shitloads of 60gr Hornady TAP - 69gr OSA rounds - the feedback I got from the research above is that the 1:8 twist will not stabilze a 55gr projectile. I took to the range to zero the rifle and lo and behold, the 55gr projectiles did not make round holes on the paper at 100 yds - they appear to be key-holeing. On the other hand, the 60g & 69gr punched perfectly round holes and these are the two weights that I now use in this particular firearm. I might do the exercise again and re-record some data...I did have my range data on the day (velocity/SD/ES etc.) but just can't find them atm. What I would do this time around:
1. Physically measure my barrel twist rate to confirm and also the length to the bolt face.
2. Shoot out futher than 100 yds to see if the 55gr hole changes.
3. Handload some 55gr rounds and see if powder charge makes a difference.
...my two cents 😊😊Great video.
What brand was the 55gr?
@@fhckoutdoors They were either Federal or Winchester. I don't think they were Remy's - I would have remembered the green & yellow packaging...I will go back and dig up my range notes...
@@NautiRulz I could absolutely believe it being winchester... they have terrible ammo.
@@fhckoutdoors sounds like his bullets are flying apart.
@@ashtonjanke3860 You don't say...
i have 223 in 1/8 twist they were fine but better with 50s or 60s work all well
Ozzie. G'day Ed, I run a Remington 783 1:8 twist with the same load as bananamags and it will shoot 50g Vmax at half to 3/4 MOA all day. I also run 55gn Hornady SP with cannelure with 26gn 2208 for piggies and its under MOA.
I have a Remington 788 in 222 1:12 i think and it puts the 40 and 50gn Vmax at 1/2 MOA, 40 with 18.5 2205 and 50 with 19.5 2207. Still accurate with 55gn but not as consistent. I think Stoner wanted the 8 twist and 55gn for his design of the AR. Some Tikka's i think and Sako offer 223 in 12 twist. Great debate, if more join we could have a mass debate,🤣🤣
🤣
Its an age old debate, mate, and sometimes it brings out some hate. If we could all get along that would be great. Pick your poison, its never too late, but I hope you pick 1 in 8.
Touche sir, touche.@@fhckoutdoors
1-3 twist solid copper expanding bullet, if you understand 8.6 black out then enough said
Lithgow 102 in 223 adi sierra blitz king 1.8 twist great Aussie
I think the person who made the claim meant 1/8 might over stabilize 55 grn. People in the USA claim 1/7 twist will add too much spin and negatively affect accuracy at long range. I dont know how true it is, if at all.
What are we doing? Trying to reinvent the wheel now.
Yes it will - 55 gr Blitz king out of 20 inch, 1:8 twist GS is ~ 3. 1:9 twist GS is ~ 2.4. Ideally you want to be over 1.5 and less than 3.5.
qld 1:8, get good groups with 55 game kings out to 300m with 1:9 so 1:8 no brainer for that rifle type
Welackhshually if the 55g was aluminium with a copper jacket it would be too long to stabilise. Kind regards "We did it Reddit!"
(aussie) I just got home from the range. was shooting 55 grain adi with sierra blitz kings and 69 grain adi sierra matchkings out of a Tikka Tac A1 wwih 1:8 twist. I was only shooting out to 300 metres as I'm pretty new to this game, but couldn't really fault either one and didn't have any odd impacts. If I were to buy the Eureka stockade rifle, i'd probably see it as a pig gun, use heavier than 55 grain, and I'd want a 1:8 barrel.
How did you find the 69gr bullets?
@@fhckoutdoors definitely got better groups on target than the 55s when we stepped it out to 300 metres, but I’m blaming any inaccurate shots on my newbie skills at this stage. The 55’s seemed to spread out a little bit more
@@adamcrofts2717 Nah thats pretty normal. 55gr has a lower BC than 69gr, so is affected by wind, drop etc more than heavier stuff. Which is why people generally like shooting heavier bullets. Better at longer range.
@@fhckoutdoors i'm starting reloading too, have some 75 grain hornady eld match and 77 grain sierra match kings to try out.
@@adamcrofts2717 Good thing you've got a 1:8 twist then!
Aussie 1:8
1:12 was cool in 1970 because they didn't know any better. I have no doubt 1:12 is an ideal twist rate for 55's but 1:9 and 1:8 both work well too. personally i'd be happy to see a 1:8 . I hope they go that way, manufacturers and importers in Australia seem to paint themselves into corners based on gun store fact and fudd lore, and then we end up with shit options. A good example of that is ammo imports. Sellier and Bellot is a good example, they have a massive range of good ammo and all we get is 150 and 180gn soft points in everything and the importer says it's what we want. Maybe true , again, in 1970 .
Haha oh man I agree with you! Too many 'back in my day' and 'I'm old school' fudds who can't be arsed learning anything new.
On the faster twist rates is it the high rpm or friction of the rifling that damages the jacket? Some medium cal auto cannons now use progressive rate twist.
Mostly rpm, however heat does play a role. I.e. if you are firing a machine gun the heat of the barrel can affect the jacket/core relationship.
M242 25mm Bushmaster chaingun uses progressive rifling, but that is due to chamber pressure. The faster the twist, the more pressure you get. So progressive solves this by having the twist start slow and then speed up, so you can have a super velocity round, and lower peak pressures. Old tech, and has been around for decades.
@fhuckoutdoors interesting if it ever becomes available for commercial barrels. BTW I have a 243 with 1 in 10, and lots of boxes of different 100 grain left in my safe, so familiar with this problem.
@@stuartmanuell4207 I'm pretty certain some barrel manufacturers make them, but for rifles its not really needed.
@@stuartmanuell4207 The Styer Pro Hunter .243 has a 1 in 8 twist FYI.
If you look at all of the other Aussie gun manufacturers that are making this style of rifle are all using 1:8 twist barrels. So i don't think it would make much sense to go against that. If you look past that into the American market of 223/5.56 firearms which is mainly AR's (which this style of gun is tying to mimic) 90% of them are using 1:8 twist barrels. So 1:12 doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
I wholeheartedly agree.
I have put well in excess of 10,000 rounds of 55gr of all types through multiple 1:8 barrels, so I have absolutely no idea whatsoever who came up with this internet myth.
55gr in a 1:8 barrel is my preferred hunting combo for whitetail.
The sauer/Mauser .223 is a 1 in 10 twist, now I’m genuinely curious if that’s a Jack of all trades or master of none..
1:10 and 1:9 is a pretty solid middle ground. Just limits you when you get up to 75gr etc.
1:8 is fine for 55g all the way to 75g I’ve tested it
Oz 1in 8
(Aussie) I would only by it if it came in
1 in 8 so I vote 1. In 8
Aust. 1:8 please
69-77 grain for 1-8 twist
I don't understand what the Australians have to do with anything. They could not wait to turn in their semi-auto rifles, handgun ownership is likely impossible or might as well be unless one is politically connected. I trained with and served with the Australian SAS in Vietnam long ago and they were some of the best soldiers in the world. But the rest of the males are far short of that.
(Aussie) 1:8
Cool, now do 1:7 twist.
When you discover the velocities with a 1 in 14” twist 223 when strictly running 55gr…. As a dedicated roo gun, 55gr gamekings is the only bullet I’ll run. 1 in 14” twist getting 3400fps out of a 24” barrel. Unfortunately the shooting community are as dumb and impressionable as the golf industry. People sell last years you-beaut callaway driver to get the latest and greatest because the industry influences them to think they magically can’t play golf anymore without the next ‘best’ thing. Shooting industry is no different. People seem to not want to test and learn these days, they just want to be told what is best, and not fact check the claims. Then take said claim to the bank and argue tooth and nail that their new hotness is the ONLY way to go. For specific 55gr use, a 1 in 12/14 is ideal, for a ‘shoot any weight projectile well’ rifle, 1 in 9” is the answer. Always love your vids mate, support and agree with 99% of what comes out your mouth. I appreciate the no bulls%^# attitude
(U.S.A.), 1:8 .
1/8 twist. (Aust)
Aus 1/8
Stone the bloody crows " Aussie" here .. 1:8 twist all the way , no way a 1:12
I call BS on that one. My 1/8 twist Daniel Defense shoots 20 shots you can cover with a dime of my 55 grain Hornady Vmax bullets in my reloads. Your rifle may not like them that means nothing you keyboard cowboy!
1:12 all day. Most people will only shoot 55gr bullets.
Bold claim, but I'll take it.
@@fhckoutdoors most people only shoot factory ammo and unless you are buying 69gr ADI then 55gr is by far the most popular. While people want the option of shooting heavier bullets I doubt even 40% of them ever do it. Americans like the fast twist as they like shooting 77gr military 5.56 ammo which isn’t all that common in Australia. Also the ar15 magazine restrict how far you can seat the bullet out so when shooting the heavy bullet out to distances where the high BC bullets actually shine you loose to much velocity because the powder capacity is reduced because you have to seat the bullet in so far.
@@ashtonjanke3860 I think the main point is allowing people to have an option. All the other pump/SP rifles on the Australian market use 1:8 twist (to my knowledge). There is little ill-affect from having the faster twist, even if you are only using 55gr. I think most people, judging by the comments, want the option and not be hamstrung by the manufacturers chose in twist rate.
I do agree with your velocity loss comment though, which is why a lot of people chasing velocity step up to 22-250.
@@fhckoutdoors what I mean about the loss in velocity is because you are restricted to the AR15 magazine length. In bolt action rifles you can seat the bullets out longer with the high bc bullets therefore you actually gain the benefits of having a high bc bullet that have more velocity. It’s fine if other people choose the 1:8 but for me I’ll go the 1:12.
@@ashtonjanke3860 I'm well aware about magazine length and seating depth.