I’ll admit that my first thought on seeing the adlib clone was that it might be a resistor ladder DAC just on how many resistors there are there. I didn’t remember that the adlib itself had pretty much that many until you showed a picture. That’d be kind of wild though - imagine a card functioning like a Covox device.
The best DOS games compatibility in my opinion is with ESS1688/1868 based sound cards (I had Genius Sound Maker 16IE). Works out of the box, without any initialization, emulates SB Pro and the FM synth is nice. Of course you can add a MIDI daughterboard or an external device for the full experience.
That PAL on the OPL2 clone is probably just programmed to a simple glue logic job to generate chip selects for the hardware, so it checks if the address on the address bus is inside the range of addresses the card uses and enables the data transceiver (74LS245), maybe switch directions on some addresses, but armed with the addressing scheme of an OPL2 card, you could relatively simply reverse engineer that PAL. Or you can make an adapter, pretend it's a ROM and read it in an EPROM reader and reverse engineer it from the outputs. (bragging rights) I've actually done both. No, that doesn't mean I'm good at it and/or want to do it ever again.
Yes, I don't think it is a complicated piece of logic. I hope that's not the problem, but it is a possibility. I don't think those things are all that reliable. On the other hand Windows detects the OPL2, so there's a good chance it works.
5:17- it is fairly common that drivers identifies a generic audio card this way - through a sound chip it utilizes. You may also like to put an Adlib clone in slower machine like 386.
bus timing can be an issue with old isa sound cards on pentium machines. See if there is a slower machine you can test it on or a way to change ISA speed/ WS's etc
It's ok, we sorted it out. A10 actually doesn't support this card after all. There's some follow up videos on the channel where you can see the card working.
Ad-Lib cards are great as collectibles for 8-bit computers, but you can also make do with pre-PNP Sound BLASTER cards, set to IRQ 2-7 and DMA 1-3, as they're Ad-Lib compatible. If you're not using the CD-ROM header, you can get away with sticking them in an 8-bit slot so long as they're set correctly for the IRQ and DMA that an 8-bit slot can service. I've done this on an XT-clone of mine, using a Sound BLASTER Pro 2. Maybe put some electrical tape over the 16-bit end of the card-edge, if you're worrying about something shorting.
Before you order parts for the adlib clone, try different software, as well as putting the card in a 286, before determining the card is faulty. Sending commands to the adlib must be done with certain delays, and on a faster system, those delays may not be honored.
I tried it on a 286. Same basic behaviour, including the very loud squeal when I turn the machine on. I managed to order some parts, so we'll start with the least expensive and see how it goes. I can't believe how much even Adlib clone cards sell for in the US these days. What on earth is happening to the secondhand market over there!
BTW, my prior comment seems to have disappeared, but I wanted to mention that one of the best Adlib test programs is the "lollypop sound effects and music" musicdisk. I'll email you the link since pasting it here may have caused the comment to go away. What I would NOT do is test with any Dynamix product, as they did not support Adlib very well at all (fairly badly, actually).
@@JimLeonard Yes, TH-cam is deleting all messages with links. They even seem to delete links to TH-cam these days, but I still see most of them. I will test with something else before I massacre it, but it makes a horrible squeal when it starts up. I am really quite sure it is faulty. Still, having something decent to test with in the event that I do get it to work will be fantastic.
I think there was just a fad here in Germany at some point. Everyone bought a TV card and of course now everyone has cable and the internet and not free-to-air television. Germans rarely throw things away, so these things end up in just about every box of retro stuff sold online.
@@PCRetroTech That makes sense. Over here in Australia you don't typically see too many of those cards, they were bought by few people who were generally enthusiasts of some kind. Also people here seem less inclined to keep old tech around.
@@PCRetroTech All of these TV cards are analog TV cards that require an analog TV signal. Today in Germany there is only digital DVB-C2, DVB-S2 and DVB-T2 available. This makes these analog TV cards largely useless. They are only usable for old analog camcorders, video recorders or consoles so that their image can then be displayed on the computer screen. Some cards still have an analogue radio receiver, which would still be usable in Germany, as we also have the analogue radio signal in addition to DAB. The latter will not be switched off for civil protection reasons. However, you usually also have internet on a PC, so you could receive the radio signal better in digital quality over the Internet. That's why these analog TV cards are thrown away. However, I still have my old WinTV Hauppauge Theather. I just haven't used it in about 20 years.
Check out the chip on that terrarec pci one. If windows is identifying it as the CM8738 then this does have dos support. There are many many variations of the chip and the suffix matters. The 8738 has been around forever and has good compatibility. Phils got a video on it :-)
Hi, As the card is detected, I bet that the problem is on the DAC and after, obviously not the OPL2 and Control/Decoding logic. Check the DAC input with an osciloscope and so on.
I'd be interested to hear more of the FM emulation of that avance logic card. I wonder how good (or bad) they nailed the OPL3 emulation :D For the adlib clone, beware of faked chips, there are now many haging around on ebay/aliexpress.
Interesting to see another FM card - I own a third party card based on the Creative Vibra 16 chipset with an integrated FM tuner, granted that's a little more exciting than yours but either way they're not a common sight.
It's a strange card for sure, it has unpopulated solder pads for a genuine Yamaha OPL3 chip alongside the installed IC which has a larger footprint and there's also through holes in the PCB for a jumper to switch between them. I've not been able to test it yet as I'm still putting the finishing touches on my 486/Pentium Overdrive build but assuming it's an early hardware clone of the OPL3 it'll be interesting to hear how it sounds.
IIRC, the Yamaha IC has a digital out, which is what that little chip is for - it’s the DAC. You have a scope? Might be worth seeing if there is any digital output activity when playing sound. Could be the DAC is dead, although you could verify that with a scope too. If I had to bet, I would assume the LM386 is the fault. That’s fine, as it’s a jellybean part. It has to create a virtual ground for the AC audio out, and that might not be happening if it isn’t getting a good V+ and V-. Does that board have a -5V rail?
It could be the LM386, but my bet would be the DAC. I'll certainly check it with a scope. I was concerned about all the bus noise, so that's why I went with the control logic first.
I’ll admit that my first thought on seeing the adlib clone was that it might be a resistor ladder DAC just on how many resistors there are there. I didn’t remember that the adlib itself had pretty much that many until you showed a picture. That’d be kind of wild though - imagine a card functioning like a Covox device.
The best DOS games compatibility in my opinion is with ESS1688/1868 based sound cards (I had Genius Sound Maker 16IE). Works out of the box, without any initialization, emulates SB Pro and the FM synth is nice. Of course you can add a MIDI daughterboard or an external device for the full experience.
Does it also emulate the Gravis Ultra Sound?
@@OpenGL4ever no, it is a legacy card that is SB compatible. There is a modern GUS clone I guess?
That PAL on the OPL2 clone is probably just programmed to a simple glue logic job to generate chip selects for the hardware, so it checks if the address on the address bus is inside the range of addresses the card uses and enables the data transceiver (74LS245), maybe switch directions on some addresses, but armed with the addressing scheme of an OPL2 card, you could relatively simply reverse engineer that PAL.
Or you can make an adapter, pretend it's a ROM and read it in an EPROM reader and reverse engineer it from the outputs.
(bragging rights) I've actually done both. No, that doesn't mean I'm good at it and/or want to do it ever again.
Yes, I don't think it is a complicated piece of logic. I hope that's not the problem, but it is a possibility. I don't think those things are all that reliable. On the other hand Windows detects the OPL2, so there's a good chance it works.
5:17- it is fairly common that drivers identifies a generic audio card this way - through a sound chip it utilizes. You may also like to put an Adlib clone in slower machine like 386.
I've now tried it in a 286. Same basic problem. I think there is going to be a follow up video on this!
bus timing can be an issue with old isa sound cards on pentium machines. See if there is a slower machine you can test it on or a way to change ISA speed/ WS's etc
It's ok, we sorted it out. A10 actually doesn't support this card after all. There's some follow up videos on the channel where you can see the card working.
Ad-Lib cards are great as collectibles for 8-bit computers, but you can also make do with pre-PNP Sound BLASTER cards, set to IRQ 2-7 and DMA 1-3, as they're Ad-Lib compatible. If you're not using the CD-ROM header, you can get away with sticking them in an 8-bit slot so long as they're set correctly for the IRQ and DMA that an 8-bit slot can service. I've done this on an XT-clone of mine, using a Sound BLASTER Pro 2. Maybe put some electrical tape over the 16-bit end of the card-edge, if you're worrying about something shorting.
Yes, I am mainly interested in this for collectability. I also have an 8 bit Creative card as well.
1:40
whats the chipset for the one on the right?
looks like a CMI8738 to me.
I believe that is correct, yes. I don't have the card nearby at present, but that is what the specifications online say.
@8:00 you could have just searched for 6520-234570-00 - the part number printed on the circuit board... it's a STI FM Radio tuner card
I just wanted to comment... Thats a FM Radio Tuner ... But i guess i am late :D
Before you order parts for the adlib clone, try different software, as well as putting the card in a 286, before determining the card is faulty. Sending commands to the adlib must be done with certain delays, and on a faster system, those delays may not be honored.
Worth a try. Thanks Jim!
I tried it on a 286. Same basic behaviour, including the very loud squeal when I turn the machine on. I managed to order some parts, so we'll start with the least expensive and see how it goes.
I can't believe how much even Adlib clone cards sell for in the US these days. What on earth is happening to the secondhand market over there!
@@PCRetroTech It's a bit nutty over here. Not sure what to tell you.
BTW, my prior comment seems to have disappeared, but I wanted to mention that one of the best Adlib test programs is the "lollypop sound effects and music" musicdisk. I'll email you the link since pasting it here may have caused the comment to go away. What I would NOT do is test with any Dynamix product, as they did not support Adlib very well at all (fairly badly, actually).
@@JimLeonard Yes, TH-cam is deleting all messages with links. They even seem to delete links to TH-cam these days, but I still see most of them.
I will test with something else before I massacre it, but it makes a horrible squeal when it starts up. I am really quite sure it is faulty. Still, having something decent to test with in the event that I do get it to work will be fantastic.
That is one epic kitchen drawer! How on earth did you get so many modems, TV cards and the like?
I think there was just a fad here in Germany at some point. Everyone bought a TV card and of course now everyone has cable and the internet and not free-to-air television. Germans rarely throw things away, so these things end up in just about every box of retro stuff sold online.
@@PCRetroTech That makes sense. Over here in Australia you don't typically see too many of those cards, they were bought by few people who were generally enthusiasts of some kind. Also people here seem less inclined to keep old tech around.
@@sparcie Yeah I'm ashamed by the amount of tech I threw away back in the day. Australia is certainly a more throwaway society.
@@PCRetroTech All of these TV cards are analog TV cards that require an analog TV signal. Today in Germany there is only digital DVB-C2, DVB-S2 and DVB-T2 available. This makes these analog TV cards largely useless. They are only usable for old analog camcorders, video recorders or consoles so that their image can then be displayed on the computer screen. Some cards still have an analogue radio receiver, which would still be usable in Germany, as we also have the analogue radio signal in addition to DAB. The latter will not be switched off for civil protection reasons.
However, you usually also have internet on a PC, so you could receive the radio signal better in digital quality over the Internet.
That's why these analog TV cards are thrown away.
However, I still have my old WinTV Hauppauge Theather. I just haven't used it in about 20 years.
Check out the chip on that terrarec pci one. If windows is identifying it as the CM8738 then this does have dos support.
There are many many variations of the chip and the suffix matters.
The 8738 has been around forever and has good compatibility. Phils got a video on it :-)
Yeah it's not a CM8738, which is why I was very surprised about this. But it might be a rebranded one.
Where'd you get the ALS4000 drivers?
I got that on the Vogon's forum.
@@PCRetroTech You're welcome. I did have help to get it uploaded, but it came from my CD that came with a NIB ALS120 based ISA sound card.
Hi,
As the card is detected, I bet that the problem is on the DAC and after, obviously not the OPL2 and Control/Decoding logic.
Check the DAC input with an osciloscope and so on.
I suspect you are correct there. However, I'm curious why you would rule out the OPL2?
@@PCRetroTech As long as the OPL2 registers are ok, the chance it is broken is really low.
There's a pretty high possibility that the game FMV is just mastered in stereo. You should have gone in game to see if it was outputting 5.1.
Yeah I checked in game. Same problem unfortunately.
I hereby sentence thee to the ~KITCHEN DRAWER~
For ETERNITY!
I'd be interested to hear more of the FM emulation of that avance logic card. I wonder how good (or bad) they nailed the OPL3 emulation :D
For the adlib clone, beware of faked chips, there are now many haging around on ebay/aliexpress.
Thanks for letting me know. I have some idea how to check.
looks like isa fm tuner, I have one
Interesting to see another FM card - I own a third party card based on the Creative Vibra 16 chipset with an integrated FM tuner, granted that's a little more exciting than yours but either way they're not a common sight.
Sounds exotic indeed.
It's a strange card for sure, it has unpopulated solder pads for a genuine Yamaha OPL3 chip alongside the installed IC which has a larger footprint and there's also through holes in the PCB for a jumper to switch between them. I've not been able to test it yet as I'm still putting the finishing touches on my 486/Pentium Overdrive build but assuming it's an early hardware clone of the OPL3 it'll be interesting to hear how it sounds.
@10:25 is it not an adlib clone
Yes, I discover this later in the video. But which adlib clone?
Good job, keep at it!!
IIRC, the Yamaha IC has a digital out, which is what that little chip is for - it’s the DAC. You have a scope? Might be worth seeing if there is any digital output activity when playing sound. Could be the DAC is dead, although you could verify that with a scope too.
If I had to bet, I would assume the LM386 is the fault. That’s fine, as it’s a jellybean part. It has to create a virtual ground for the AC audio out, and that might not be happening if it isn’t getting a good V+ and V-. Does that board have a -5V rail?
It could be the LM386, but my bet would be the DAC. I'll certainly check it with a scope. I was concerned about all the bus noise, so that's why I went with the control logic first.
In the kitchen drawer. Of course.
*Kitchen drawer*