The way I see torterra is it’s a threat that needs to be respected as a shell smash sweeper in a lot of matchups, and then it’s also solid as a phys def tank, it has a lot of solid ideas that aren’t shell smash!
@@OGalbina I think the typing does make it worse as a grass, but as a ground it still does the job, so long as tera or hidden power are banned. Ice is a weakness you can def play around, since everyone wants to draft a steel type. Leech seed, rocks, shell armor iron press are all great ideas for torterra, I even ran AV in my last league. I think it’s definitely worth it as a lower tier ground, less so as a grass
@@OGalbina That’s why I say it’s more of a ground type mon than a grass type. It’s a ground type that’s neutral to water, and offensively is a grass type that can hit fire and steel. it’s a good low tier ground type imo, it just so happens to be a grass type too, it shouldn’t be *the* grass of your draft, if you can manage it’s weaknesses well. Either that, or you could just build around not having the water resist i think, there are def reasons to want it
I’ve not watched a draft league with mega Gallade in since gen 6 and I remember it was seen as a 7th team member in that league so really surprised (in a good way!) to see it rated so highly now :)
It's so interesting, that overall, the native Sinnoh evolution lines are rather shit, but the huge amount of new final evolution lines for older Pokemon makes it an overall quite strong Pokemon.
I feel like Rampardos has an argument for C tier. Yes it’s slow and frail but even just its scarf set has very few switch ins and it’s always something you need to at least consider on the team builder
@@OGalbina no momentum and no good ability just for a 10.2% max difference in physical damage (calulated using Rampardos's Adamant CB Head Smash to check the maximum, most other attacks will do way less)? not to mention that Sand Force Probo can do some damage, and is generally stronger on both physical and special. Also gets T-Wave. Bastiodon has Roar and Foul Play. Good moves, but I think it's not as good as Probo's more diverse traits
@@AIDcyt I get your point, but diversity in traits do not matter if they’re all mid. I’d much rather have a hyper specific low tier mon that’s bad else where than a diverse mon w generally below average traits everywhere. Volt also does not matter to me when the mon is abused by grounds so often. If it had a niche in spikes we could talk but it’s just not worth the better overall defenses imo. Bastio has an overall better movepool and takes on what it is aiming to much better. You gotta look at its niche applications as it’s a niche hyper specific mon
@@OGalbina I still don't see the better movepool outside of Roar and Foul Play (Ice Beam maybe [super niche but ig]). Probopass has won me games as the low tier tera with it trapping mons like Bronzong, Orthworm and Tinkaton. Eliminating these pieces allows the rest of my team to click buttons (basically a low tier Drag-Mag) All I'm saying is it's definitely not D tier.
@@AIDcyt I’ll keep it a stack those Pokémon being trapped seems like an error on your opponents prep. And foul play and roar are massive for generally passive and weak Pokémon.
Maybe a different spot in d tier but def not any higher, stats and offensive movepool is just too bad. One time I saw aimel bring skill swap on it for a flash fire heatran which was sick, so it has that going for it LOL
Roserade is a tough call. A big part of me says A tier based on how good it has been historically. I struggle bc you have to draft around it abnormally. Drafting a grass type that isnt a eq switch stinks. I loved the wash/rose core tho. Also u value the rotoms too high imo. Freeze is D tier, and i really dislike heat. It struggles defensively and does a terrible job offensively as a fire or electric type. Never secures the KOs u need and is priced into boots most match ups. Speed tier is butt. Terrible defogger when it had it. Idk maybe ima hater. Heat is a C tier at best.
Rose is one of the mons that struggled the most with hidden power being taken out of the game just because of how huge technician hidden power was for its coverage
@@paddykelly2851 facts, but from DP through SM it was a OU-UU mon and even better in draft. The argument is a historical one. It certainly is not A tier now. Dk off the top of my head what sorta point value it has in nat dex currently and what type of value you get off it with Hp. Its borderline imo and your argument is valid.
Yeah rose was a Mon I super debated on moving to A tier I think the historic argument is fair. However I do not agree w the Rotom heat hate that guy is and always has been fire
Darkrai is the biggest fraud in draft for me. I have NEVER seen it do anything. A deoxys Defense got more kills than darkrai in one of my most recent draft leagues. I am not touching that fraud with a 15 foot pole
@@LanternComicnerd probably because it’s more team based than it appears? For example, chiyu really needs good teammates to thrive. Maybe the same for darkrai?
@@OGalbina ah maybe so I play mostly natdex where rotom is just as good as it’s always been but I could see how paldea restricting a lot of its utility could make it weaker
Shuckleking will want to have a word with on that Bronzong placement
LOL shhhhh dknt tell him!
the counterplay to torterra getting herbed is herb torterra. happened in my last league and it was truly beautiful
I didn’t know it worked like that, that’s sick!
I don’t think it does or else I would’ve brought it to LTM haha
Give my guy fridgetom freeze dry access
He might not be ass then
The way I see torterra is it’s a threat that needs to be respected as a shell smash sweeper in a lot of matchups, and then it’s also solid as a phys def tank, it has a lot of solid ideas that aren’t shell smash!
Def fair, however I cant say w confidence torterra is GREAT as a lower tier grass w it’s typing. Def not bad but still not great imo
@@OGalbina I think the typing does make it worse as a grass, but as a ground it still does the job, so long as tera or hidden power are banned. Ice is a weakness you can def play around, since everyone wants to draft a steel type. Leech seed, rocks, shell armor iron press are all great ideas for torterra, I even ran AV in my last league. I think it’s definitely worth it as a lower tier ground, less so as a grass
@@superkernel442 ice isn’t the only issue for me, having a grass not resist water or the ability to beat many waters is tough
@@OGalbina That’s why I say it’s more of a ground type mon than a grass type. It’s a ground type that’s neutral to water, and offensively is a grass type that can hit fire and steel. it’s a good low tier ground type imo, it just so happens to be a grass type too, it shouldn’t be *the* grass of your draft, if you can manage it’s weaknesses well. Either that, or you could just build around not having the water resist i think, there are def reasons to want it
I’ve not watched a draft league with mega Gallade in since gen 6 and I remember it was seen as a 7th team member in that league so really surprised (in a good way!) to see it rated so highly now :)
Gallade is def worse in gen 6, has to waste a slot on protect a lot because of the mega speed mechanic. It’s a certified demon every other gen tho!!
It's so interesting, that overall, the native Sinnoh evolution lines are rather shit, but the huge amount of new final evolution lines for older Pokemon makes it an overall quite strong Pokemon.
100%! Especially the early sinnoh dex lines. Not great mons lmao
Rhyperior nodding aggressively
Mega Lopunny above Munchlax? Now you're really doing my boy dirty!
crazy i know....
I'm actually very big on purugly, super cool low tier. Have won a tour with it on my draft.
Hmmm interesting, I’ve never really seen it used well that’s dope you found some good use outta it
@OGalbina very fast mon that can knock super fang and pivot! Cant go wrong for 1 pnt.
@@queenaddi for one point that’s super fair yeah
Haven’t even watched the video but munchlax in S? Already a classic
Goated ghost check etc etc
Appreciate you putting respect on the goat bastiodon
He’s him w tera
I feel like Rampardos has an argument for C tier. Yes it’s slow and frail but even just its scarf set has very few switch ins and it’s always something you need to at least consider on the team builder
How much of a team are you even outspeeding with a scarf, realistically?
@@OGalbina I mean it outspeeds anything 111 and below, which isn’t that fast but it’s at least fast enough to be something to think about.
@@mx4159 that and any other real scarfer. Not great imo
You could go the play more style and run para spam with hatterene, a glare mon, and other twave users. That’s legitimately the only reason to use it
Why did you put Probopass lower than Bastiodon? same typing and functionality but also Volt Switch and Magnet Pull
Bastios more specific defensive bulk and wide movepool tend to make it much better as a sprcofied physical wall imo
@@OGalbina no momentum and no good ability just for a 10.2% max difference in physical damage (calulated using Rampardos's Adamant CB Head Smash to check the maximum, most other attacks will do way less)?
not to mention that Sand Force Probo can do some damage, and is generally stronger on both physical and special. Also gets T-Wave.
Bastiodon has Roar and Foul Play. Good moves, but I think it's not as good as Probo's more diverse traits
@@AIDcyt I get your point, but diversity in traits do not matter if they’re all mid. I’d much rather have a hyper specific low tier mon that’s bad else where than a diverse mon w generally below average traits everywhere.
Volt also does not matter to me when the mon is abused by grounds so often. If it had a niche in spikes we could talk but it’s just not worth the better overall defenses imo. Bastio has an overall better movepool and takes on what it is aiming to much better. You gotta look at its niche applications as it’s a niche hyper specific mon
@@OGalbina I still don't see the better movepool outside of Roar and Foul Play (Ice Beam maybe [super niche but ig]).
Probopass has won me games as the low tier tera with it trapping mons like Bronzong, Orthworm and Tinkaton. Eliminating these pieces allows the rest of my team to click buttons (basically a low tier Drag-Mag)
All I'm saying is it's definitely not D tier.
@@AIDcyt I’ll keep it a stack those Pokémon being trapped seems like an error on your opponents prep. And foul play and roar are massive for generally passive and weak Pokémon.
I think Wormadam Trash can do some work, no? Good typing, options with Quiver Dance, Rocks? I'd at least put them at different spots in D tier, haha
Maybe a different spot in d tier but def not any higher, stats and offensive movepool is just too bad.
One time I saw aimel bring skill swap on it for a flash fire heatran which was sick, so it has that going for it LOL
@@OGalbina That is an amazing tech!
"pachirisu is the best pokemon of all time" - owen
Lies!
Roserade is a tough call. A big part of me says A tier based on how good it has been historically. I struggle bc you have to draft around it abnormally. Drafting a grass type that isnt a eq switch stinks. I loved the wash/rose core tho.
Also u value the rotoms too high imo. Freeze is D tier, and i really dislike heat. It struggles defensively and does a terrible job offensively as a fire or electric type. Never secures the KOs u need and is priced into boots most match ups. Speed tier is butt. Terrible defogger when it had it. Idk maybe ima hater. Heat is a C tier at best.
Rose is one of the mons that struggled the most with hidden power being taken out of the game just because of how huge technician hidden power was for its coverage
@@paddykelly2851 facts, but from DP through SM it was a OU-UU mon and even better in draft. The argument is a historical one. It certainly is not A tier now. Dk off the top of my head what sorta point value it has in nat dex currently and what type of value you get off it with Hp. Its borderline imo and your argument is valid.
Yeah rose was a Mon I super debated on moving to A tier I think the historic argument is fair.
However I do not agree w the Rotom heat hate that guy is and always has been fire
@@OGalbina agree to disagree on heat.
When did mega garchomp get scale shot?
Hey check goons general for me
Hey man, whats the best way to join a draft league?
join bigger yt leagues discord servers, then keep a look out for people plugging their leagues in the plug chats!! ppl are always looking for coaches
Darkrai is the biggest fraud in draft for me. I have NEVER seen it do anything. A deoxys Defense got more kills than darkrai in one of my most recent draft leagues. I am not touching that fraud with a 15 foot pole
That might be user error bro the Mon is still incredible
125 speed, 135 base spatk (sorry don’t remember the other ones so you get one of each type of stat). Great coverage and nasty plot.
@@WinterRedstone I still have never seem it do anything
@@LanternComicnerd probably because it’s more team based than it appears? For example, chiyu really needs good teammates to thrive. Maybe the same for darkrai?
@@WinterRedstone Again, if i see it do well, i might change my mind. But til then, im not touching that fraud
Tangrowth over rotom wash is criminal lol
Tangrowth has traditionally been a staple on its archetypes and Rotom has fallen off heavy this gen, dknt think it’s too criminal
@@OGalbina ah maybe so I play mostly natdex where rotom is just as good as it’s always been but I could see how paldea restricting a lot of its utility could make it weaker
@@bionicrocker ye they’ve fallen off heavy in paldea
Best Gen
Gen 3 would like a word