The Mediant Mandala - Understanding harmonic progressions in the music of Radiohead
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 เม.ย. 2018
- Want to better understand harmonic relations in the music of Radiohead, or in contemporary film music? Here’s a visual approach!
(Please mind that I am using the terminology of German music theory after Hugo Riemann.)
And here are the links mentioned in the video:
Friedemann Findeisen of »Holistic Songwriting« on “How Radiohead Writes A Chord Progression”:
• How Radiohead Writes A...
Rick Beato of »Everything Music« on “Why Top Composers Use Chromatic Mediant Modulations”_
• Why Top Composers Use ...
Download the “Mediant Mandala” as a PDF from www.saschaselke.com:
www.saschaselke.com/MEDIA_STOR...
Listen to more of my music at www.saschaselke.com - เพลง
![โอ้มายก๊อด! ไม่ถึงชั่วโมงหมดเป็นแสน 😅 [cc] แดนแพทตี้ SS2 | EP.42 |](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/OH2ShXfO6tA/mqdefault.jpg)
Amazing! I don't even know if you are German but I can sense it from your attitude and I love how German people explain theoretical concepts are normally boring with enthusiasm. You did that! Immediate subscription.
Very cool way to organize the relationships. I always thought of them
In major or minor keys. Changing the quality of both mediants (ie minor to major in major key) as one option. With there being 3 options in major or minor by flatting them in major, With the third option to make the flatted versions minor. The opposite goes for minor keys.
Opposite qualities, then sharp the mediants. I love these chords. Many of them work like secondary dominants to modulate with. It made me laugh when you said " You might see the cousins less often. Who cares right?" Lol! Great video.
Thank you Sascha! please make more videos like this. This really fills in some gaps in my musical knowledge
Thank you, Andy! I’ll try ;-)
Blow Up The Outside World by Soundgarden uses a lot of this. Always wondered where they got the weird chord progressions from. Thank you!
Thank you so much, sir! This is a really handy tool for composers!
Thank you! I’m always glad to see that we composers can support each other. :-)
Interesting, I'll give it a shot !
Thanks !
please do more theoretical lessons ( plus explaining radiohead music and what they do to make their music as it is)
The terminology is different than what i am used to. Parallel minor of C Major would normally mean C minor, not Aminor. That relationship is usually called "relative major/minor." Interesting.
Hi James, thanks for your reminder. Absolutely true for common English terminology, I was just lazy and translated the terminology I learned at university - which was the German nomenclature after Hugo Riemann - into English. In German “parallel” means the chord a third below for major chords (so the “parallel” to C major is A minor), while the chord a third above a major chord (for C major that would be E minor) is called “Gegendreiklang” (i.e. “counter-triad”). And what in English is called the “parallel” (i.e. the chord on the same root note, but the mode is switched from major to minor or vice versa), is called “gleichnamiges Dur/Moll”, i.e. “same-named major/minor”.
Maybe I should make a short video about those differences, although that would probably mostly be useful for German speakers. But thanks again for clearing that up!
Hey Sasha!
Mein TH-cam-Algorithmus hat mich zu dich gebracht! Das ist so ziemlich die persönlichste Connection die eine mathematische Formel jemals mit mir gehabt hat ^^
Ich kann mich noch erinnern, wie wir im Unterricht Radiohead-Videos angeschaut haben oder wie du uns das erste mal die Sandman-Cover von David Carson gezeigt hast.
Zufälle können so lustig sein :D
Liebe Grüße aus Graz,
Patrick, ein Ex-Schüler ;)
PS: ich glaube wir haben sogar No Surprises und Karma Police in dieser Reihenfolge gesehen. Das dritte Video war aber Paranoid Android :D
Alter Schwede! Patrick, das ist ja ewig her! :-) Aber ich erinnere mich gut an die etwas unkonventionellen Ausflüge, u.a. zu Radiohead. Inzwischen haben wir ja einen waschechten Zweig für Multimedia, in dem wir tatsächlich Musikproduktion unterrichten. Besuch uns doch mal!
Liebe Grüße, Sascha
Subscribed
I gave you a round of applause in my room once I finished watching this
Thank you so much, I hope it helps a little with you en work!
13:50 (C-G-D-#F) I would go G - D -#F so #F being the mediant to D instead of G - #D - #F. Thanks for the great work and greetings from Berlin.
Thank you!!!!z
I know this comment is way late. However I really enjoyed your approach to this topic.
I always hear Sexy Sadie with Karma Police :)
Sascha: A minor is the relative minor of C major. C minor is the parallel minor of C major.
Dear John, thank you for your comment. The difference in terminology comes from me using German music terminology after Hugo Riemann (because that’s what I learned at university). I am, however, planning to do a video on those differences in terminology between German and English. But of course you are right that in the common English terminology what I call the “lower mediant” would be the “relative minor”, and what you would call the “parallel minor” (C minor / C major) would be the “same-named” (“gleichnamige”) minor or major in German.
OK this was awesome. Going to give you a wee nit pick though. The colour codes for parallel minor and counter parallel minor - I'm colour blind so can't distinguish them! Had to rewind your video when you introduced them. Please do more, and if you have a patreon would love to send money your way.
Dear Vasioth, thank you! And the colour coding for people with colour blindness - that I actually did not think of, my bad, I am sorry! But thanks for the hint, I’ll keep that in mind for future videos. Always great to receive productive criticism!
Surely F to Bbm is best expained as a flat 6th.
sorry i dont understand the point of this. isnt it easily understood if you see the Cm as a boorow from the parallel minor?
I suppose by “parallel minor” you refer to the American terminology, where the “parallel minor” of C major would be C minor. The point is that major/minor transformations are relatively new in codified music history, having come into use mainly during the Viennese Classic period and then, even more, the Romantic period. But even at that time their use was more a fashionable gesture (found a lot in Mozart, Beethoven and Schubert) than a relation deeply founded in the application of a theory of harmony. But technically, you are of course absolutely right!
This mandala has more connections than a conspiracy theorist's cork board. Love it and will put it to use. Thanks!
I realize I am kind of randomly asking but does anyone know a good site to watch newly released movies online ?
@Arthur Jimmy thanks, signed up and it seems like a nice service :D Appreciate it!
@Jason Beau no problem :)
You introduce the counter-parallel minors but as far as I can tell you never then use them at all. Why is that? Especially when C -> cm is only one step if you do use the counter-parallel...
Your point is absolutely valid, coming from modern music theory. My approach, however, tries to build a bridge from the beginnings of harmony in Western music - basically the standards established in the mid Renaissance and canonised in the Baroque Era, when the circle of fifth and fourth was the main road map for modulation - to a contemporary approach. Of course, as early as during the Viennese Classics, a modulation from C to Cm would have been quite an ordinary thing. But I still believe that - from a historical standpoint -the harmonic relations, as depicted here, represent the historical evolution and “liberalisation” of the traffic rules for harmony, concerning what is “close” and what is “far”. But, again, I think you are absolutely right from today’s point of view.
Also, there's a big caveat: As declared in the disclaimer at the beginning of the video, I am (being lazy as I amaccordingHugostandardwhilewhatgleichnamige Molltonart”, a “same-named minor key”. I am sorry for the confusion, I am just so used to German terminology that it makes more sense to me. But al least I tried to avoid the confusion concerning B, Bb and H, between English and German terminology. It’s a minefield!
@@SaschaSelke I mean, i'm just talking about what's in the video - you brought up the counter-parallel minor (which i had never heard of before) and put it on your graphic - and then ignore it. That's what I find confusing.
@@VynceMontgomery Ah, I hink I understand now. I introduced the parallel and the counter-parallel minor as being the twins of a major triad, and then never used that special twin for analysing a song. True, I could have sought other examples that use this relation, it just didn't occur to me, since this modal mediant “twin” relation is so all over the place in the music from which I, historically speaking, have learned my first music theory (which is the music of the Renaissance and the Baroque era). But thank you for making that point! In future videos and posts on that topic I will include the counter-parallel minor. Also, thank you for being so attentive, I take that as a compliment and a gesture of respect.
im confused the song no surprises isnt that just 1 going to 4 minor? its not even a major or minor 3rd
Dan Copeland I think he is saying the iv minor can be subbed for the b6 major ... eg Fminor for Ab ... that’s my guess anyway
It's actually the opposite. It's 4 minor to 1 major. It's a plagal cadence. But I see what you're saying. Tho, the explanation here is: even though there's a fourth between the roots F and Bb, we are moving 4 places around the circle of fifths. I think of key signatures being different worlds, and Bb is in the same world as Dd, which is a direct chromatic mediant to F
I'm too much of a Noobie to really understand this. But I was never one at music camp.
Sascha, why to use that mandala, You know it The best that from C major to F sharp major You can go really smooth without a real modulation in just two steps: C major - E flat major - F sharp major and return The same smooth in next two steps to C major. I consider it just as black magic when People trying to justify something without a special relations in such funny esoteric way. Beside that I Love to use chromatic mediants - that is really helpful to kill such boring stuff like diatonics.
What a pitty not to have such People passionate for music like You in own environment, I mean that I have nobody to talk to about complicated musical issues like for egzample best choice of scale in a particular example of non-chromatic chord progression.
Best luck to You!
Sorry to take so long to come back to you, Piotr! Of course you are right. But one of the reasons I developed this visual representation was to motivate aspiring composers to use it as an inspiration. As for analysing harmonic progressions, there are of course much more intricate ways than this. And thank you so much for watching and getting in contact!
I don't think this diagram is used to "justify" anything. It's just a visualization that one can use to acquire their music vocabulary more effectively
I would disagree with your classification of Eb and Ab as chromatic mediants in C:
E and A major have only one sharped note so are closet the diatonic, so counts chromatic mediants
Eb and Ab are not symmetrical i.e. they should move away from the tonic in the same way, not both flatted or sharped
Eb and Ab are parallel mediants, and a different animal in my book, although many more qualified than me may disagree
wouldn'tsymmetry
I get your point, Colin. However, i this video I decided to address only the chromatic mediants that stem from a transformation of the major root key into minor, since those are the ones I encountered most in film music (the realm that I come from). A much more comprehensive look at chromatic mediants (including the ones you pointed to, I think) can be found, as mentioned in the video, on the brilliant Rick Bento’s channel: th-cam.com/video/dhXL3q7e-xc/w-d-xo.html.
Du hättest das auch auf deutsch erklären können...😂😁
😂 Stimmt! 😂
All Radiohead has done is start with base cadences, such as II-V-I or I-iii-IV and add in a tritone either from the I or the ii. That's it, nothing more than that, it's not complicated. I try to be accepting of all tastes but with them I just can't because I can't consider them to have any. They are out to be weird intentionally and I understand that urge, from a marketing perspective which I believe they are built upon, but nothing they've ever done, not even Creep which is otherwise a 100% rip off of a 1950s US pop song, resonates with my inner feel for what is legit. Interesting video and graphics but that is a theoretical mess that only complicates simple concepts in order to make them seem complex. There are no practical applications to confusing oneself intentionally, which is pretty much what listening to Radiohead is at its core.
this is a good opinion. However it also dismisses some of their music which can be quite beautiful. But I agree, it keeps you in a "head space" even though it's trying to be emotional.
Musicians working in the field are out to find new things that work but don't need to understand why they work. Theorists always come behind later to explain why it works. Almost certainly Radiohead was not thinking this technically about what they were doing, but the analysis still checks out. Whenever theory comes before the music you risk coming up with results like serialism which are quite interesting to learn about, but the public largely rejects.