I grew up playing D&D and switched two and a half years ago from 5e to C&C. I have described C&C to others as, "I am playing AD&D but with better rules." Great game.
  I'm sold!! it's a great game and you are correct - the 2nd best GM book for fantasy is the Castle Keepers Guide!!! but..... there's just one problem ..... The Monsters and treasure book could have been the best , complete monster book ever if it were not for two flaws in it!!! 1) the great artist peter Bradley awesome black and white art was " colorized " in a hap -hazard way diminishing his art!! 2nd flaw) in monsters and treasure !! Many of the Exotic / "ethnic " monsters from myth have stats and damage output WAY higher than their European and Norse counterparts!!! **** the 2 headed snake ( Amphisbaena ) bite: 4d8 damage for asmall 3;4 ft monster!! nother rpgs have the damage much lower. Faery creatures like the small Korrid or any others do Double the weapon damage 1d6 is 2d6 with a short sword!!! ** a Manticore classic old D&D monster does1d3 claws, spikes 1d6, bite 1d8 for a large creature - makes sense and jives with classic editions but a Bukavak ( 5HD) does bite 4d12 and 5d6 claw ...Why???!! the book is filled with ethno-centric / more exotic regional monsters that are way more powerful then a greek or norse or european eqivelent !!! Too many monsters witrh damage output not consistant with other monsters - excellent book but a serious flaw- fixable though. like cutting a 3 foot tall small monster 4d6 damage inhlaf or more so an OGRE or hill giants damage makes sense again
I agree on the M&T book. The new M&T book for Aihrde is a big step up and their upcoming "reforged" M&T book will use the format of the Aihrde book, which will be great.
Agree on all points! Fast, flexible, and yet allows for as much detail (and crunch) as the CK wishes to include. The true spiritual successor to AD&D, but cleaned up and easier to use. The best thing about it is it requires players to think about the environment presented instead of staring at their character sheets hoping for some sort of inspiration...
I started in ADnD2e. However, the thing I don't miss is each class's own EXP table. I still have a beloved character, an Elf Cleric12/Fighter7/Mage16 multi-class. (I think Mage was unlimited levels as an elf once I capped the other two classes. I've put all my exp into mage.) It took me over 7 years to slog through all three exp charts. @_@. The reason I picked Elf was because of the stats initially. Roleplay and backstory didn't come into play until after a year of play. She was the first character out of 27 characters to survive past level 5. Hey, how can I not say no to +1 Dexterity, which improves bow usage, and resistance to sleep/charm spells and bonuses with bows and infravision. :D I rolled really well using the 3d6 six times and assign the rolls to the abilities as you see fit method. Str: 16 Dex: 18 Con: 16 Int: 17 Wis: 15 Cha: 18. Playing her I had to rewrite her character sheet 5 times because of all the spells, abilities, and the constant erasing of the HP and EXP numbers tarring through the green sheet. I almost had to dedicate an entire 5-star notebook to her. lol
I do have some issues with C&C, namely how saves scale poorly (I'd fix this by just making all saves count as primary) but yeah, it's basically AD&D 3rd edition; Gygax even said it was the spiritual successor to AD&D.
I've had C&C since '05/06. And even after a stint of 5e for 4+ years I still think C&C is the best version of D&D available. Enough low to mid-level crunch to really make a game fun.
My one issue is, for higher levels when using your level for checks you almost never fail. Having +15 at 15th level to pick locks or tracking pretty much guarantees success. The next time I run I'm thinking about having them roll half their level.
Fair enough and a good alternative. I don’t run into that since by 15th level, or any level beyond 10-12 (if a PC even gets there), most of the PCs have either retired, are running a domain, or aren’t dealing with more trivial matters of adventure.
Steve Chanult is the true successor to Gary. C&C is the true D&D 2E. I don't want the new edition, with the censored stuff, but I have my older editions. Great video!
when it comes to saves, imo there really should only be three saves: dex based, wisdom based, and constitution based. Intelligence and charisma saves seem arbitrary and dont make sense. (strength saves dont make sense either, but only because imo strength and con should be one stat. Some systems have actually merged the two stats already, to great results)
Strongly disagree. Your take seems to be based on unwanted assumptions about the breakout of attributes that are not warranted. Various systems could use any number of attributes to define the capabilities of characters. A better approach would be to question the need for any attribute that does not warrant an associated save/defense. As an example of why an intelligence save is warranted, intelligence should be to counter to illusions.
my current campaign is 2e. (I never got into 1e, 2e always looked more epic and more LotR-adjacent to me.) C&C looks nice but getting my group to learn yet another system is tough!
It’s quite different in many ways. C&C leans on AD&D and what 3e was doing at the time. Shadowdark leans way more on 5e. I’d also argue that C&C is built to sustain long campaigns much better than Shadowdark is.
At lower levels it’s can certainly seem that way often, but after just a couple levels it becomes “easier”. But I like the challenge it poses. I would argue that it’s more flexible than often perceived. You can, in many instances, make a case for an attribute check that’s not funneled to just 1 possible attribute. Example: you can “influence” NPCs with Charisma of course, but possibly also Intelligence, Wisdom, or even Strength. Detaching oneself from the “skills” tree you see in 5e (for example) is the biggest learning curve. You can really attempt most anything with nearly any attribute.
No he didn't. C&C came out in 2004 while D&D 3E came out in 2000. Why would Gygax say it was the true 2nd edition of D&D, when 2nd edition came out 1989 and revised 2nd edition came out in 1995. I'm just as old as you and been playing D&D since 1977, you're just lying. EDIT/ADD: And Gygax didn't get involved in C&C until a year after it came out, in 2005.
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I grew up playing D&D and switched two and a half years ago from 5e to C&C. I have described C&C to others as, "I am playing AD&D but with better rules." Great game.
Nobody mentions the monsters stat block. I love it! Kudos for mentioning it!
Thanks! It’s such an important part of running a game.
  I'm sold!! it's a great game and you are correct - the 2nd best GM book for fantasy is the Castle Keepers Guide!!! but..... there's just one problem .....
The Monsters and treasure book could have been the best , complete monster book ever if it were not for two flaws in it!!!
1) the great artist peter Bradley awesome black and white art was " colorized " in a hap -hazard way diminishing his art!! 2nd flaw) in monsters and treasure !! Many of the Exotic / "ethnic " monsters from myth have stats and damage output WAY higher than their European and Norse counterparts!!!
**** the 2 headed snake ( Amphisbaena ) bite: 4d8 damage for asmall 3;4 ft monster!! nother rpgs have the damage much lower. Faery creatures like the small Korrid or any others do Double the weapon damage 1d6 is 2d6 with a short sword!!!
** a Manticore classic old D&D monster does1d3 claws, spikes 1d6, bite 1d8 for a large creature - makes sense and jives with classic editions but a Bukavak ( 5HD) does bite 4d12 and 5d6 claw ...Why???!! the book is filled with ethno-centric / more exotic regional monsters that are way more powerful then a greek or norse or european eqivelent !!!
Too many monsters witrh damage output not consistant with other monsters - excellent book but a serious flaw- fixable though. like cutting a 3 foot tall small monster 4d6 damage inhlaf or more so an OGRE or hill giants damage makes sense again
I agree on the M&T book. The new M&T book for Aihrde is a big step up and their upcoming "reforged" M&T book will use the format of the Aihrde book, which will be great.
Agree on all points! Fast, flexible, and yet allows for as much detail (and crunch) as the CK wishes to include. The true spiritual successor to AD&D, but cleaned up and easier to use. The best thing about it is it requires players to think about the environment presented instead of staring at their character sheets hoping for some sort of inspiration...
Simplified Siege Engine: DC is always 15 + modifier. If you have a primary stat, roll with advantage.
I’ve seen that before and mathematically it works well.
I’ve been playing C&C for over ten years now. I dipped out of D&D at the end of the 4e run. I never looked back. C&C is a fantastic game!
It certainly is.
I started in ADnD2e. However, the thing I don't miss is each class's own EXP table. I still have a beloved character, an Elf Cleric12/Fighter7/Mage16 multi-class. (I think Mage was unlimited levels as an elf once I capped the other two classes. I've put all my exp into mage.) It took me over 7 years to slog through all three exp charts. @_@. The reason I picked Elf was because of the stats initially. Roleplay and backstory didn't come into play until after a year of play. She was the first character out of 27 characters to survive past level 5. Hey, how can I not say no to +1 Dexterity, which improves bow usage, and resistance to sleep/charm spells and bonuses with bows and infravision. :D I rolled really well using the 3d6 six times and assign the rolls to the abilities as you see fit method. Str: 16 Dex: 18 Con: 16 Int: 17 Wis: 15 Cha: 18. Playing her I had to rewrite her character sheet 5 times because of all the spells, abilities, and the constant erasing of the HP and EXP numbers tarring through the green sheet. I almost had to dedicate an entire 5-star notebook to her. lol
I do have some issues with C&C, namely how saves scale poorly (I'd fix this by just making all saves count as primary) but yeah, it's basically AD&D 3rd edition; Gygax even said it was the spiritual successor to AD&D.
This game is awesome, I collect tons of different rpg's but this is the one we play. Glad to see it get some love ...cool video!
Glad you enjoyed it. Games like C&C deserve to be highlighted more often.
C&C has been my Fantasy RPG of choice for 15 years, I wish more people played it.
I wish that too
Humble Bundle has a $30 offer of a bunch of C&C
I've had C&C since '05/06. And even after a stint of 5e for 4+ years I still think C&C is the best version of D&D available. Enough low to mid-level crunch to really make a game fun.
I fully agree
My one issue is, for higher levels when using your level for checks you almost never fail. Having +15 at 15th level to pick locks or tracking pretty much guarantees success. The next time I run I'm thinking about having them roll half their level.
Fair enough and a good alternative. I don’t run into that since by 15th level, or any level beyond 10-12 (if a PC even gets there), most of the PCs have either retired, are running a domain, or aren’t dealing with more trivial matters of adventure.
Steve Chanult is the true successor to Gary. C&C is the true D&D 2E. I don't want the new edition, with the censored stuff, but I have my older editions. Great video!
Thanks!
What got censored?
@@stillmattwest everything from the OGL. All good, though.
@@BillCassinelli I thought they ditched the OGL in the latest edition.
@@stillmattwest Exactly. Don't care to get this new edition. I'm fine with the way it was.
Great video.
Thanks!
Great review of the C&C system. Its my go to for fantasy games.
Thanks 😊
I raise my Dr. Pepper to you , good sir! C&C is one of the great alternatives to D&D for sure!
And I love how when you buy the PDF for the books, they automatically update the pdfs when they publish new versions of those books.
Me too
Preach it my friend.
And the PHB for the game is free :) ..pdf version . Which is awsome.
Agreed
when it comes to saves, imo there really should only be three saves: dex based, wisdom based, and constitution based. Intelligence and charisma saves seem arbitrary and dont make sense. (strength saves dont make sense either, but only because imo strength and con should be one stat. Some systems have actually merged the two stats already, to great results)
Strongly disagree. Your take seems to be based on unwanted assumptions about the breakout of attributes that are not warranted. Various systems could use any number of attributes to define the capabilities of characters. A better approach would be to question the need for any attribute that does not warrant an associated save/defense. As an example of why an intelligence save is warranted, intelligence should be to counter to illusions.
This was not expecting what a pleasent surprise
my current campaign is 2e. (I never got into 1e, 2e always looked more epic and more LotR-adjacent to me.) C&C looks nice but getting my group to learn yet another system is tough!
Yes, getting a group to switch is always a tough ask
I just wish they didn’t charge you money for the PDF when you purchase the physical books directly from them.
I’ll agree there.
I'd be interested to hear how this works compared to Shadowdark. I've been a Troll Lords fan for a long time.
It’s quite different in many ways. C&C leans on AD&D and what 3e was doing at the time. Shadowdark leans way more on 5e. I’d also argue that C&C is built to sustain long campaigns much better than Shadowdark is.
The Siege Engine is a bit too unforgiving. If its a non prime you're pretty much f00ked
At lower levels it’s can certainly seem that way often, but after just a couple levels it becomes “easier”. But I like the challenge it poses. I would argue that it’s more flexible than often perceived. You can, in many instances, make a case for an attribute check that’s not funneled to just 1 possible attribute. Example: you can “influence” NPCs with Charisma of course, but possibly also Intelligence, Wisdom, or even Strength. Detaching oneself from the “skills” tree you see in 5e (for example) is the biggest learning curve. You can really attempt most anything with nearly any attribute.
Gary Gygax called C&C the true 2nd edition of AD&D.
No he didn't. C&C came out in 2004 while D&D 3E came out in 2000. Why would Gygax say it was the true 2nd edition of D&D, when 2nd edition came out 1989 and revised 2nd edition came out in 1995. I'm just as old as you and been playing D&D since 1977, you're just lying.
EDIT/ADD: And Gygax didn't get involved in C&C until a year after it came out, in 2005.