I think you should of not scratched the crystal because scratching the crystal might give you problems ik that you were removing thermal pasr but next time try to use alchol to remove it 😅
I've run into the same problem with my cMP with BOTH sets of CPUs (the original 4-core and the upgraded 5680's I installed). It would only recognize 6 out of 8 sticks of RAM. I tested every socket and every stick individually and they all worked fine. I've never had any other hardware issues with this computer after nearly 15 years of ownership. At a complete loss as to what the problem is.
@@JimmyDoresHairDye another commentor said something interesting : "I did a 4,1 to 5,1 upgrade and did the vice method for the CPU upgrade. It worked like a charm. The only thing that needed time to do was cleaning the remaining indium off the dies. Also the CPU heatsinks have to be as a specific tension, too much or to little and you get issues like memory channels dropping out."
@@TonyTear yeah since it's just placed on the motherboard with the coolers acting like the mounting gear it could be that, i couldn't find how much torque it needs exactly.
@@JimmyDoresHairDye I had same issue on x58, had to move the cpu in socket couple times then put the lever down,, then it detected all 3 channels (6 sticks) Cheers Alexander
I did a 4,1 to 5,1 upgrade and did the vice method for the CPU upgrade. It worked like a charm. The only thing that needed time to do was cleaning the remaining indium off the dies. Also the CPU heatsinks have to be as a specific tension, too much or to little and you get issues like memory channels dropping out.
Sometimes when delidding the cpu substrate can warp slightly I would loosen the cpu cooler slightly and you’ll find it may start working again. I had the same issue with an 8700k
@@NotTheGaslighter FWIW: copper wire is expensive, this is one benefit to going aluminum... For electronics, there is CCA wire (copper-clad-aluminum), but has the annoying downside of tending to foul up the soldering iron (seems to form a yellowish amalgam that doesn't re-melt easily and solder doesn't like to wet onto if the CCA gets too hot, kind of an issue if it gets stuck to the iron as it needs to be filed off; presumably some sort of Cu/Sn/Pb alloy...). Sometimes also the copper plating dissolves off the wire into the solder exposing bare Al, which solder doesn't really stick to either. So, CCA is more of a pain to work with. Usual workaround seems to be to set iron temperature lower if working with CCA.
You DO NOT need to delid the CPUs to put them in a 4,1, I have dual X5680s in my 4,1 working great since 2016 when I did the upgrade without deliding them, you just need to use a lower tension on the torx screws... I just counted the turns so it was even between the screws and slowly brought it up to tension without bottoming out the screws, I've changed the thermal paste a couple of times since then and it's still stable as a rock!
The 5,1 runs on standard CPUs with IHS on them. No need to delid CPUs for the 5,1. This is a firmware upgraded 4,1 which has LGA sockets w/o the lever and delidded CPUs are used. It can however also take standard XEONs with IHS, just some tweaking of the heatsink is required. Did it, works like a charm 😊
Those CPUs are like... weirdly good, even today. I have an old HP Workstation in which I've put a X5680 (which was like half the price of a X5690) and with an RX 580, it's a really decent gaming PC. My home server is also using a X5660 (lower TDP) and outside of the power consumption, I really have nothing to say about it, it just works and does everything I want.
If I may chime in, as someone that successfully de-lidded a 9900k? For removing the soldered TIM paste intel uses, I would get some gloves, some sturdy paper towels (blue shop towels are GREAT for this), and specifically, *Flitz metal polish.* The polish is great at dissolving that TIM and polishing the freshly exposed die, and quite safe on it. It's a mess you dont want to keep on your uncovered hands, though. Literally apply the flitz like a toothpaste, then use the towel, bit by bit, to rub it in and rub it off. Short of physical damage to the exposed die ( rest in peace, gtx 460 ), it's served me well.
Only thing I'd like to mention, is to always spread thermal paste on direct die, I have seen on GPUs, that just letting it squish can leave part of it not entirely covered, which can lead to hotspots on the die!
I recently upgraded my 2010 5,1 Mac Pro with two 3.06 GHz six-core CPUs, and I was very relieved (and triumphant) when it chimed first-go. Thankfully, 5,1 CPUs don't need to be delidded, and there were no RAM issues for me. I also upgraded my 2013 trashcan Mac Pro with a 3 GHz ten-core CPU, which I'm pretty proud of.
I delidded tons of those X58 CPUs with the vice method. The capacitors are far enough away on one end, so it will lift, before the IHS will grind them away. Using razor blades and hot air, not only takes 30 times longer, the rate of failure (cutting a trace / overheating) is much greater. So if anyone wonders how to remove that IHS safely and simple: Vice method.
I had a 4,1 that I converted to a 5,1, and I used a third method to upgrade the CPUs: I didn’t delid the CPUs, and instead used shims. Controversial for sure… possibly a more controversial upgrade method than thermal paste itself!
I used to have a single CPU Mac Pro 4.1 upgraded to 5.1 at my previous work. I managed to source locally a W3680 for a good price and almost delidded it before even taking apart the computer. Well, it's a bloody good thing I decied to look at the old CPU before doing that, since it turns out, single CPU models of the 4.1 were using CPUs with their IHS, so there was no need to delid the replacement one.
I know it may a shorter video, but you can find them online delidded... And, always inspect the socket, because chances are you did do some damage and bent some pins. Missing RAM is clearly a sign of socket issues. Those Xeons are bulletproof.
He swapped the CPUs around and both socket are fine, he also cleaned thoroughly the CPU contacts. Maybe it was already like that when received maybe something went bad between the core and the interposer PCB (like what happens with all these old nVidia GPUs in the Xbox360 and PS3)
@@RetroTinkerer Both sockets could be fine, but I've seen contacts in the socket that just had a broken off tip. I managed to get it working without that tip, a lot of tinkering with bad eyesight and a tiny little pin to bend it up. These are little springs that display metal fatigue after more than 10 years of being untouched and then being treated roughly by a DIYer lol Those CPU's may also need cleaning on just one specific pin. Just sayin'
@@walterb.9290 I know, these are excellent recommendations but the thing is that he already told us in the video that he swapped the CPU 1 to socket 2 and CPU 2 to Socket 1 and the memory channel that wasn't detected switched place, he also told that he cleaned the CPU contacts thoroughly using IPA, I don't know, Sean is far from perfect, but you know he rarely try to hide his mistakes (that crimping mistake in the video for example). He didn't told us he tested the CPUs as received before delidding so no way to know if one was damaged or he damaged it, so... I dont get why you are doubling down on these two points and what is your point on on implying his status as a "DIYer"
The RAM issue you’re running into can also be due to the heatsink being tightened down unevenly. I had the same issue on mine after upgrading and just takes some fiddling with to get it back to normal👍🏼
It’s great to see such a classic machine being pushed to its limits! Delidding those Xeons is a bold move and it’s impressive to see how it’s paid off despite the hiccups. Looking forward to seeing how the replacement CPU turns out!
Needs a little Metal Gear MKII model sitting on top This is giving me flashbacks of taking my Inspiron 6400 apart to replace the dried out thermal paste, it was so bad the cpu was stuck to the cooler and got pulled out of the socket 😱 thankfully no harm done. Instead of old fashioned paste I used thermal pads, it's running much cooler now.
I've done a few of these 4,1 upgrades, your ram issue is caused by the screws that hold down the coolers. all you have to do is count the rounds when you tighten them and make sure its' applying equal pressure across the CPU. in my case it was about 8, but I used lidded. DON'T over tighten it. if that doesn't work, check the bottom and make sure you haven't mashed the pins on the tray. if you did, it's done, and need a new tray. Mac Sound Solutions has a great video about this I found really helpful. Good luck.
CPUs without heat spreaders really should have the thermal paste be spread manually on the die. I have heard that without doing it manually, you could leave a spot without thermal paste that might not have a temp sensor, thus potentially frying the CPU.
How is he going to damage the CPU die with the softer steel blade at such an angle? Maybe the cooler need to be tightened down to some specific torque to ensure proper contact between package and motherboard, maybe the CPU was damaged when he delided or already was.
@@RetroTinkerer people these days don't remember the horrors of when cpu's shipped with exposed dies for a few years :d it doesn't matter that it's 'harder', it's quite fragile like if you had a piece of low quality glass. they'd sell these aluminum shims to make it feel safer just to install a heatsink. i presume spacer method is just some different mount or an intermediate mount? sounds a lot simpler if the cpu's aren't disposable.
It's videos like this that make it hard to wait to play with the 5,1 I have had sitting on a shelf for the last year. One day I'll get to it, after the Mac Classic re-cap, and the C64/VIC-20s, and the IBM ThinkPad 240...
I had one of those Mac Pros a few years ago, and I really enjoyed tinkering around with it. I sold it so that I could get a Mac Pro 2013 to tinker with.
i think you should've bought 3 to begin with (or even practiced on an already dead cpu) having tolerance for future mistakes is a good project management tactic, especially if you're doing something potentially destructive that you've never done before
On my 4,1 delid, I broke off a capacitor on one of the CPUs, but luckily I already had a spare CPU that arrived broken. It's been over a year of daily driving a machine with a hand soldered capacitor and i haven't had a single issue
at 7:09 you can see a pretty big scratch (thin white line) on the bottom edge of the substrate where you cut the glue. Thats what probably killed the cpu
that "stuff" on the freshly delidded CPU dies is Indium, its a very soft kinda Rare/Valuable metal, it gets its name from the color it and it's salts burn (Indigo)
lga sockets are very sensitive to pressure and is very easy to make them not contact properly. Threadrippers suffer from this as well, and is pretty common that ram sticks don't get detected when the mount procedure has not been done properly. This happened to be when I upgraded my 2013 mac pro to the 12-core Xeon, some ram sticks would show up or not between boots. I had to mount it again carefully and problem solved.
Please keep releasing videos about this, its so interesting. You could try an even stronger GPU, you could paint it, theres still so many possibilities!
It was a very expensive computer when it was new so it makes sense that it has much power. I have had several Acer Aspire laptops and they are nice laptops, they are not meant for new intensive games. They will run old and well optimized games really well. A desktop would be a better option if your intention is to play intensive and unoptimized games.
And yet ... they get no software support at all. Clearly capable, but nope, sorry sucker, you've been enjoying that one too long. Time to buy a new computer.
@@Compact-Disc_700mb I got an Aspire E1-572. Came with Windows 8 back then, lasted as such for a week until upgraded to Windows 10, went unused for a good few years until I gave it new life with Android x86. That lasted until earlier this year, the OS corrupted itself when I attempted to dual boot Linux Mint, supposedly you're meant to install Mint first, but oh well, that made me switch to Arch altogether. And yeah the laptop doesn't run even mid 2010's games too well, not until all graphics settings are turned off or all the way down, and I cap the framerate to 30FPS. Resident Evil 5 is such an example, but then I run into RAM issues, having only 6GB, with just the game and Steam open, I'm pretty much maxed out. :/
@@xGMV Yeah they are good laptops for normal computer things. They are not meant to be gaming devices. You can do it with any computer but you just have to keep your expectations in check. I used to play 90s games on mine and it was fine. Really for high end gaming a midrange laptop is not the best choice. if you must play games on a laptop you just need to learn to enjoy old games and some light indie games.
I built a machine around the same generation of Xeons some years ago. Was cheap stuff on Ebay. Rocking twelve cores for 400 bucks back in the mid-2010s, that was something! Except all the cores were slow as fuck and terrible. I still have it around but never use it anymore.
Awesome video...really looking forward to seeing how it performs once you replace that bad processor. I have ALWAYS loved that MAC...after watching your short series on it, I may have to get one and do the same. Two of my four "older - 9 years or older" MACs are running Linux and doing quite well!
2:20, could just as well be the fault of the crimping tools and/or crimps. Some rather tight tolerances are required to get both the crimp in the right shape as well as having the right force applied. I looked into crimping tools for those special connectors you get on PCBs and after having read a blog on the topic and having seen the price-tags, I've concluded it's a lost cause.
I have bought several cheap (relatively -- less than eighty bucks) crimpers to avoid shelling out over two-hundred for some Molex tool that is designed for one or two pin types that I use, and they'll probably discontinue in a couple years... I've found ONE somewhere (no idea what it is) that does ... okay. The crimps aren't very pretty, but it's mechanically sound... ish .. for most of the connectors I use regularly. The small
If you want to cut towards your soft and fleshy hand, get the Safety Anti Cut Gloves, ie, they're some sort of heavily woven fabric that is hard to penetrate.
If the CPU was confirmed working prior to this it's very likely a mounting pressure issue if there's no obvious damage. It's possible you overheated one to the point where the substrate warped and/or broke a bga connection but that's less likely. Mounting pressure is challenging with direct die because you have to make up for the gap previously filled by the IHS without applying so much force that you crack a die.
Uggh. This reminded me of recently when I decided to buy some bigger RAM sticks for my PC to replace the small ones. The PC failed to POST with either of the new sticks. Had to send them back. I've built several PCs before without issue, yet I have no idea what was wrong.
Also, weirdly I've got a video recommendation in the side bar for the ad free version of your Windows NT Macintosh Edition video, and it says it says "Feature Members only". When I click it I obviously I can't watch it (nor can I join your channel with my Google workspace account, not that I need to since I've got YT premium, plus I'm already on your patreon). I'm thinking this is a new feature, although I'm not sure how useful that particular video is to drive membership sign-ups. I would've thought it better to feature more "exclusive" content rather than an ad free version of a publicly available video. But it is interesting to see if it is a new feature.
I remember that Allendale Xeons 3050 were actually of worse die quality. Overclock could kill the core quickly. Might be that is still the thing with Westmere.
I'm sure on the first cpu you were scraping the gunk off. If you watch closely you can see the cpu pcb crack on the left as you're pressing down on the mat
Mhm you can 3D print yourself a delidding frame? One to nudge the indium solder till it fatigues and breaks off cold. The razor blades aren't entirely kosher, scratches on the substrate can cause pins being electrically severed.
Cracking the top off isn't as violent or stressful as you'd think. You're generally supposed to use a custom tool meant for your specific generation of CPU that has special tolerances for it. It only cracks the glue/rubber/solder holding the lid. Basically, it needs to be enough force to stress the glue but not enough force to harm the actual CPU. It's also usually done several times in small increments because, again, weakening the glue is what you're trying to do. I would never do this though LOL, no way am I risking my CPU!
He said in the other videos he has a 4,1 with firmware upgraded to 5,1. And the single CPU 4,1's are said to use lidded CPU's. Just the dual cpu 4,1 are delidded. I would have tried the new cpu's with the lid and put the had sinks on with reduced tension if I had his computer.
If you have some plastic safe quick drying contact cleaner that could help. I had trouble getting my document scanner working so I gave it a very quick short shot of CRC quick drying contact cleaner and the did the same for the end of the USB cable while not plugged into the computer. It helped a lot. This dries quick so it should not linger in there. If you are worried it would linger leaving it in a room with a cross breeze or even a quick going over with a hair dryer will dry it. If you are in doubt and just want to play it safe wait overnight. This stuff says it doesn't conduct but I am not sure 100% how non conducting it is. You can use any other product of your choosing too if you happen to have something else. I am sure they are all similar in some way.
Maybe try to support the next CPU before it flys. There are some SMDs on there too. You put a lot of heat in it to melt that big solder, it takes some time for all the solder joints to resolidify. ;) I hope the next one will work fine!!
My success ratio delidding LGA1366 with heat is about 50%... the last time I tried, I had the exact same problem with a dead RAM channel. Went for a mechanical tool which nails it every time.
I was just changing the air cooler to put the liquid one on my overclocked Xeon E5-2696v3 when I saw your video. You made me want to take the lid off. Now I'll take my hot air gun and do it !!! I have dozens of Xeons, Hurray 😄
RSVP that memory channel. I've never heard of a blown memory channel before, so that's definitely a new kind of fault for me. I was considering upgrading the CPUs in my mac pro 5,1 similar to you, but perhaps I'll hold off until I've actually got a use for it (let alone the space to have such a behemoth actually set up in my tiny apartment).
You should closely inspect the delidded CPU and ensure there were no damaged or cut traces. The only issue with the razor method is that sometimes that can happen :(
My fine sir, as a guy who does this kind of stuff to PC's, my hat tips to you. However, you found the fault of the mighty XEON. Quality control lol. I do hope you get it working. I've been looking to do this to a MacPro of this year style, to build a Minecraft server for a world I've been building for 3 years. Would love to see you make it a success, and might I ask a tip? I have a iBook G4 1.33ghz and 1.25gigs of ram that I'd love to use to play on your Classic Cube server with, but I can't for the life of me find this things power adapter. Might you know a safe (for the machine not me) way of powering it? Thank you very kindly!
8:07 That's most likely because of uneven or insufficient pressure from the heatsink onto the cpu, making some of the connections between the CPU and the LGA iffy or not connected. Direct-die is a bit tricky, i AM guessing the screws that hold the coolers onto the cpu and board are supposed to be torqued until they stop, meaning that the length of the screws/threads determines the pressure. In that case i'd try re-mounting the coolers and make extra sure to tighten down the screws gradually so that they make even pressure. Haven't watched past this point, so i guess you might be solving this =) This was a common problem on the early AMD Epyc cpus with huge LGA sockets, the classic symptom is that not all of the RAM shows up.
Oh, it follows the CPU, that's unfortunate. WAY less of a chance it's something to do with the LGA and mounting pressure, obviously, although it's still a possibility.
I would say from expiriance, just cleaning the contacts of the cpu and the socket should fix the ram issue. I don't think a new cpu would be needed. Sometimes this sort of thing can happen when doing cpu swaps, and has happened many times with all the duel cpu systems I have personally messed with.
I had one of these for a while, its final job before going on facebook was running VMs because it had so many cores to throw around. I ended up retiring it because of its idle power consumption being so high. That delidding method was really cool, never knew that was a thing. Seems like the hot hair might've killed a memory channel inside the CPU, which explains why people do the vice method. Since they're not BGA chips, I'm guessing they're not really made to be reheated like that. They might be using different solder bump and underfill material to attach the die to the substrate.
I also did this with mine. I bought pre-delidded cpus though. Any reason you didnt go with those or did you just want the experience? I also run liquid metal on mine. Also make sure you repaste the northbridge heatsink. It will really help the temps on it and its very sensitive to temperatures. Good luck!
Working at an auto shop, nobody I work with uses those crimpers. I'm sure they work on a wider variety of connectors, but I just use the combination wire stripper/cutter/crimper things, more specifically the Ares 21002 or the Klein j207-8cr ones. Treating the crimper opening as a U shape, the side with the seam always goes to the bottom of the U. You want to rest the seam against the rounded side while the punch thing presses into the other side. Also, nobody I work with likes those T connectors. They're not reliable and they can damage the wires. I'm sure it's good enough for this hackey upgrade but I just don't trust them.
Not all cpu's silicon die's are the same height and can cause issues with direct die cooling as there is not enough pressure in certain areas on the LGA contacting the pins on the motherboard for it to work, most times its memory related. getting 2 identical cpu's or known as matched cpu's could fix this issue and also just could be more stable over all. I have a dual Xeon server myself and have found this issue to be the cause.
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install windows 10 on it then windows server 2022 then put windows 11 on it (use rufus because the mac probably doesn't meet the requirements)
hey pointy mac man, what are those crimps you're using to add extra psu cables?
Thanks for the video. Do let us see what happens when you fit the replacement CPU. 🙂👍
I think you should of not scratched the crystal because scratching the crystal might give you problems ik that you were removing thermal pasr but next time try to use alchol to remove it 😅
07:23 Heat sink compound is visible!
I wonder if that original CPU was just bad to begin with. Could have a bad pad on it or something.
I've run into the same problem with my cMP with BOTH sets of CPUs (the original 4-core and the upgraded 5680's I installed). It would only recognize 6 out of 8 sticks of RAM. I tested every socket and every stick individually and they all worked fine.
I've never had any other hardware issues with this computer after nearly 15 years of ownership. At a complete loss as to what the problem is.
@@JimmyDoresHairDye another commentor said something interesting : "I did a 4,1 to 5,1 upgrade and did the vice method for the CPU upgrade. It worked like a charm. The only thing that needed time to do was cleaning the remaining indium off the dies. Also the CPU heatsinks have to be as a specific tension, too much or to little and you get issues like memory channels dropping out."
@@TonyTear yeah since it's just placed on the motherboard with the coolers acting like the mounting gear it could be that, i couldn't find how much torque it needs exactly.
@@JimmyDoresHairDye I had same issue on x58, had to move the cpu in socket couple times then put the lever down,, then it detected all 3 channels (6 sticks)
Cheers
Alexander
I did a 4,1 to 5,1 upgrade and did the vice method for the CPU upgrade. It worked like a charm. The only thing that needed time to do was cleaning the remaining indium off the dies. Also the CPU heatsinks have to be as a specific tension, too much or to little and you get issues like memory channels dropping out.
Hmm, my Power Mac G5 has one memory channel that goes in and out, I wonder if that's what my problem is there
I did the exact same thing a few years ago, and the vice method worked like a charm.
Sometimes when delidding the cpu substrate can warp slightly I would loosen the cpu cooler slightly and you’ll find it may start working again. I had the same issue with an 8700k
Fun fact, the solder you shaved off is potentially iridium tin solder, so it might even have a few dollars of value!
the copper wire mindset
@@NotTheGaslighter FWIW: copper wire is expensive, this is one benefit to going aluminum...
For electronics, there is CCA wire (copper-clad-aluminum), but has the annoying downside of tending to foul up the soldering iron (seems to form a yellowish amalgam that doesn't re-melt easily and solder doesn't like to wet onto if the CCA gets too hot, kind of an issue if it gets stuck to the iron as it needs to be filed off; presumably some sort of Cu/Sn/Pb alloy...). Sometimes also the copper plating dissolves off the wire into the solder exposing bare Al, which solder doesn't really stick to either. So, CCA is more of a pain to work with. Usual workaround seems to be to set iron temperature lower if working with CCA.
Thats indium
It's indium and it's a couple cents at most if it was pure and clean in a usable form.
You DO NOT need to delid the CPUs to put them in a 4,1, I have dual X5680s in my 4,1 working great since 2016 when I did the upgrade without deliding them, you just need to use a lower tension on the torx screws... I just counted the turns so it was even between the screws and slowly brought it up to tension without bottoming out the screws, I've changed the thermal paste a couple of times since then and it's still stable as a rock!
yeah, but it makes them run cooler
This is a 5,1.
He says up front that his is a 5,1. He just watched a video for a 4,1 computer.
The 5,1 runs on standard CPUs with IHS on them. No need to delid CPUs for the 5,1.
This is a firmware upgraded 4,1 which has LGA sockets w/o the lever and delidded CPUs are used. It can however also take standard XEONs with IHS, just some tweaking of the heatsink is required. Did it, works like a charm 😊
… just as @Microang stated 😉
Good call to censor that, that was highly erotic
I don't get the censorship on thermal goop.
@@enigma776 it's because for a while the comments would go wild about the "right way" to apply it.
@@enigma776 This is just a guess but probably because everyone fights about how much thermal paste to put on. Its always to much, or to little.
@@WhySoSerious-gq1on Ah that makes sense in a weird stupid way. People will argue over anything it seems.
@@enigma776 Beacuse no matter how you do it, someone thinks it's wrong.
Those CPUs are like... weirdly good, even today. I have an old HP Workstation in which I've put a X5680 (which was like half the price of a X5690) and with an RX 580, it's a really decent gaming PC. My home server is also using a X5660 (lower TDP) and outside of the power consumption, I really have nothing to say about it, it just works and does everything I want.
Yooooooooo, I love that Veronica Explains is one of your patrons. TH-camrs in the tech space supporting each other is based af.
If I may chime in, as someone that successfully de-lidded a 9900k?
For removing the soldered TIM paste intel uses, I would get some gloves, some sturdy paper towels (blue shop towels are GREAT for this), and specifically, *Flitz metal polish.* The polish is great at dissolving that TIM and polishing the freshly exposed die, and quite safe on it. It's a mess you dont want to keep on your uncovered hands, though. Literally apply the flitz like a toothpaste, then use the towel, bit by bit, to rub it in and rub it off. Short of physical damage to the exposed die ( rest in peace, gtx 460 ), it's served me well.
Only thing I'd like to mention, is to always spread thermal paste on direct die, I have seen on GPUs, that just letting it squish can leave part of it not entirely covered, which can lead to hotspots on the die!
Excellent choice to make midweek episodes of Action Retro! It helps with my patient waiting/constant craving for the weekend episode. Thanks 😊
1:34 i expected an ad
I recently upgraded my 2010 5,1 Mac Pro with two 3.06 GHz six-core CPUs, and I was very relieved (and triumphant) when it chimed first-go.
Thankfully, 5,1 CPUs don't need to be delidded, and there were no RAM issues for me.
I also upgraded my 2013 trashcan Mac Pro with a 3 GHz ten-core CPU, which I'm pretty proud of.
I keep on finding it hilarious that you censor the thermal paste pattern. Commenting to keep the algo up. Keep up the shenanigans !
I delidded tons of those X58 CPUs with the vice method.
The capacitors are far enough away on one end, so it will lift, before the IHS will grind them away.
Using razor blades and hot air, not only takes 30 times longer, the rate of failure (cutting a trace / overheating) is much greater.
So if anyone wonders how to remove that IHS safely and simple:
Vice method.
I'm so glad I bought my mac pro already processor swapped lmao
I had a 4,1 that I converted to a 5,1, and I used a third method to upgrade the CPUs: I didn’t delid the CPUs, and instead used shims. Controversial for sure… possibly a more controversial upgrade method than thermal paste itself!
I used to have a single CPU Mac Pro 4.1 upgraded to 5.1 at my previous work. I managed to source locally a W3680 for a good price and almost delidded it before even taking apart the computer. Well, it's a bloody good thing I decied to look at the old CPU before doing that, since it turns out, single CPU models of the 4.1 were using CPUs with their IHS, so there was no need to delid the replacement one.
mine still has the lid
@@RarefiedError mine as well, I just almost delidded it. Fortunately before doing so I took a look at the original CPU :)
I know it may a shorter video, but you can find them online delidded... And, always inspect the socket, because chances are you did do some damage and bent some pins. Missing RAM is clearly a sign of socket issues. Those Xeons are bulletproof.
He swapped the CPUs around and both socket are fine, he also cleaned thoroughly the CPU contacts.
Maybe it was already like that when received maybe something went bad between the core and the interposer PCB (like what happens with all these old nVidia GPUs in the Xbox360 and PS3)
@@RetroTinkerer(nam flashback intensifies)
@@RetroTinkerer Both sockets could be fine, but I've seen contacts in the socket that just had a broken off tip. I managed to get it working without that tip, a lot of tinkering with bad eyesight and a tiny little pin to bend it up. These are little springs that display metal fatigue after more than 10 years of being untouched and then being treated roughly by a DIYer lol Those CPU's may also need cleaning on just one specific pin. Just sayin'
@@walterb.9290 I know, these are excellent recommendations but the thing is that he already told us in the video that he swapped the CPU 1 to socket 2 and CPU 2 to Socket 1 and the memory channel that wasn't detected switched place, he also told that he cleaned the CPU contacts thoroughly using IPA, I don't know, Sean is far from perfect, but you know he rarely try to hide his mistakes (that crimping mistake in the video for example). He didn't told us he tested the CPUs as received before delidding so no way to know if one was damaged or he damaged it, so... I dont get why you are doubling down on these two points and what is your point on on implying his status as a "DIYer"
I'd call it a big win given it's a working device. Thanks for going the extra mile to perfect it.
The RAM issue you’re running into can also be due to the heatsink being tightened down unevenly. I had the same issue on mine after upgrading and just takes some fiddling with to get it back to normal👍🏼
Thanks for the sequel! I've been "patiently" waiting for this. So sad it didn't work :(
It’s great to see such a classic machine being pushed to its limits! Delidding those Xeons is a bold move and it’s impressive to see how it’s paid off despite the hiccups. Looking forward to seeing how the replacement CPU turns out!
Needs a little Metal Gear MKII model sitting on top
This is giving me flashbacks of taking my Inspiron 6400 apart to replace the dried out thermal paste, it was so bad the cpu was stuck to the cooler and got pulled out of the socket 😱 thankfully no harm done. Instead of old fashioned paste I used thermal pads, it's running much cooler now.
I forgot MGS4 was shilling Apple pretty hard, lol
@@gustiwidyanta5492 lol yup. Don't forget the 4th wall breaking shill for the Bluray drive/disc
0:09 by the first 9 sec of finding this channel, i know he has very promising and good ideas
Unfortunate about the second cpu. Definetley looking forward to the next video to see what this thing can really do! :D
Taking the "delicate approach"... are you feeling OK Sean?
Right? The delicate approach, properly wiring and routing the GPU power... something seems wrong.
@@chadmasta5 did i hear PROPER WIRING? something's wrong, send help!! 😂
I've done a few of these 4,1 upgrades, your ram issue is caused by the screws that hold down the coolers. all you have to do is count the rounds when you tighten them and make sure its' applying equal pressure across the CPU. in my case it was about 8, but I used lidded. DON'T over tighten it. if that doesn't work, check the bottom and make sure you haven't mashed the pins on the tray. if you did, it's done, and need a new tray. Mac Sound Solutions has a great video about this I found really helpful.
Good luck.
HE DOES IT IN AN X!!! 😃
That's why it had to be censored, it's X-rated!
CPUs without heat spreaders really should have the thermal paste be spread manually on the die. I have heard that without doing it manually, you could leave a spot without thermal paste that might not have a temp sensor, thus potentially frying the CPU.
@@jdpruente Pinnacle of comedy!
@@Piipperi800 Oh.
: What did you do today?
: Put aftershave on a CPU
i love those computers, would love to make a sleeper build in one someday.
Check out the Laser Hive for ATX kits for these towers. I've got one sitting in the attic that I never got around to installing.
I really want to try one on a power Mac g4.
Word to the wise, *always cut away from yourself*
Cut away from yourself, and cut towards a buddy, you can always get a new buddy
I was thinking the same thing. Cut myself too many times 😂😂😂
@@MyBlogsTVexactly 😂
It can be really difficult to find a setup which makes it possible. Work holding issues.
But worth it.
i recommend the spacer method instead of delidding . the razor method of scraping the tim off damages the die
How can i find more info on the spacer method?
How is he going to damage the CPU die with the softer steel blade at such an angle?
Maybe the cooler need to be tightened down to some specific torque to ensure proper contact between package and motherboard, maybe the CPU was damaged when he delided or already was.
@@RetroTinkerer silicon scratches . I have a few x5690s that were delidded on this way and they either won't boot or also have ram channel failures .
@@DarkoPetreski Mac runners forums should have it . There is also a spring method too
@@RetroTinkerer people these days don't remember the horrors of when cpu's shipped with exposed dies for a few years :d it doesn't matter that it's 'harder', it's quite fragile like if you had a piece of low quality glass. they'd sell these aluminum shims to make it feel safer just to install a heatsink.
i presume spacer method is just some different mount or an intermediate mount? sounds a lot simpler if the cpu's aren't disposable.
nooooo! i ONCE again wanted to see you play video games on it! (refer to my previous comment on the previous video)
It's videos like this that make it hard to wait to play with the 5,1 I have had sitting on a shelf for the last year. One day I'll get to it, after the Mac Classic re-cap, and the C64/VIC-20s, and the IBM ThinkPad 240...
Now that's hardcore
I had one of those Mac Pros a few years ago, and I really enjoyed tinkering around with it. I sold it so that I could get a Mac Pro 2013 to tinker with.
I was going to yell in the comments on the last video that vampire crimps suck. But better you learned the hard way
😂 I always love your antics and banter. You are a genius and I’m so here for it.
I lost count how many times I’ve been at the tray wiggling ram until it all showed up… 😂
i think you should've bought 3 to begin with (or even practiced on an already dead cpu) having tolerance for future mistakes is a good project management tactic, especially if you're doing something potentially destructive that you've never done before
On my 4,1 delid, I broke off a capacitor on one of the CPUs, but luckily I already had a spare CPU that arrived broken. It's been over a year of daily driving a machine with a hand soldered capacitor and i haven't had a single issue
at 7:09 you can see a pretty big scratch (thin white line) on the bottom edge of the substrate where you cut the glue. Thats what probably killed the cpu
that "stuff" on the freshly delidded CPU dies is Indium, its a very soft kinda Rare/Valuable metal, it gets its name from the color it and it's salts burn (Indigo)
Its hilarious because i have the same hot air station and soldering iron. Great minds think alike
"newly naked Xeon". What is a crazy brand new sentence
I'm surprised Joe from Joe's Computer Museum hasn't chimed in with the suggestion to "Hit it with a hammer!" 🤣🤣🤣
lga sockets are very sensitive to pressure and is very easy to make them not contact properly.
Threadrippers suffer from this as well, and is pretty common that ram sticks don't get detected when the mount procedure has not been done properly.
This happened to be when I upgraded my 2013 mac pro to the 12-core Xeon, some ram sticks would show up or not between boots. I had to mount it again carefully and problem solved.
6:11 was very satisfying to watch :)
Please keep releasing videos about this, its so interesting. You could try an even stronger GPU, you could paint it, theres still so many possibilities!
Your upgraded Mac Pro from nearly 2 decades ago is running Steam better than my modern Acer Aspire Laptop from 2021...
8:09 AND IT HAS LITERALLY 16X MY LAPTOP'S RAM?!?!?!?! I HAVE 6GB OF INSTALLED RAM
It was a very expensive computer when it was new so it makes sense that it has much power. I have had several Acer Aspire laptops and they are nice laptops, they are not meant for new intensive games. They will run old and well optimized games really well. A desktop would be a better option if your intention is to play intensive and unoptimized games.
And yet ... they get no software support at all. Clearly capable, but nope, sorry sucker, you've been enjoying that one too long. Time to buy a new computer.
@@Compact-Disc_700mb I got an Aspire E1-572. Came with Windows 8 back then, lasted as such for a week until upgraded to Windows 10, went unused for a good few years until I gave it new life with Android x86. That lasted until earlier this year, the OS corrupted itself when I attempted to dual boot Linux Mint, supposedly you're meant to install Mint first, but oh well, that made me switch to Arch altogether.
And yeah the laptop doesn't run even mid 2010's games too well, not until all graphics settings are turned off or all the way down, and I cap the framerate to 30FPS. Resident Evil 5 is such an example, but then I run into RAM issues, having only 6GB, with just the game and Steam open, I'm pretty much maxed out. :/
@@xGMV Yeah they are good laptops for normal computer things. They are not meant to be gaming devices. You can do it with any computer but you just have to keep your expectations in check. I used to play 90s games on mine and it was fine. Really for high end gaming a midrange laptop is not the best choice. if you must play games on a laptop you just need to learn to enjoy old games and some light indie games.
I built a machine around the same generation of Xeons some years ago. Was cheap stuff on Ebay. Rocking twelve cores for 400 bucks back in the mid-2010s, that was something! Except all the cores were slow as fuck and terrible. I still have it around but never use it anymore.
7:22 I fully expected that second shot of the exposed CPU with the thermal paste showing to have been pixelated everywhere except the thermal paste.
the best content creator for a boring thursday night, greetings from Argentina!!
In this Action Retro video we see Xeons subjected to torture while narrated in a pleasantly calm voice.
It's always the quiet ones...
You can just get spacers for the coolers
Technology Connection's long lost brother
lol to the blurring of the thermal compound :D
Awesome video...really looking forward to seeing how it performs once you replace that bad processor. I have ALWAYS loved that MAC...after watching your short series on it, I may have to get one and do the same. Two of my four "older - 9 years or older" MACs are running Linux and doing quite well!
2:20, could just as well be the fault of the crimping tools and/or crimps. Some rather tight tolerances are required to get both the crimp in the right shape as well as having the right force applied.
I looked into crimping tools for those special connectors you get on PCBs and after having read a blog on the topic and having seen the price-tags, I've concluded it's a lost cause.
I have used klein tools 1005 on those type of connections.
I have bought several cheap (relatively -- less than eighty bucks) crimpers to avoid shelling out over two-hundred for some Molex tool that is designed for one or two pin types that I use, and they'll probably discontinue in a couple years... I've found ONE somewhere (no idea what it is) that does ... okay. The crimps aren't very pretty, but it's mechanically sound... ish .. for most of the connectors I use regularly.
The small
I love how you always hide the applying of the paste :D
If you want to cut towards your soft and fleshy hand, get the Safety Anti Cut Gloves, ie, they're some sort of heavily woven fabric that is hard to penetrate.
If the CPU was confirmed working prior to this it's very likely a mounting pressure issue if there's no obvious damage. It's possible you overheated one to the point where the substrate warped and/or broke a bga connection but that's less likely. Mounting pressure is challenging with direct die because you have to make up for the gap previously filled by the IHS without applying so much force that you crack a die.
Uggh. This reminded me of recently when I decided to buy some bigger RAM sticks for my PC to replace the small ones. The PC failed to POST with either of the new sticks. Had to send them back.
I've built several PCs before without issue, yet I have no idea what was wrong.
Also, weirdly I've got a video recommendation in the side bar for the ad free version of your Windows NT Macintosh Edition video, and it says it says "Feature Members only". When I click it I obviously I can't watch it (nor can I join your channel with my Google workspace account, not that I need to since I've got YT premium, plus I'm already on your patreon). I'm thinking this is a new feature, although I'm not sure how useful that particular video is to drive membership sign-ups. I would've thought it better to feature more "exclusive" content rather than an ad free version of a publicly available video. But it is interesting to see if it is a new feature.
Make sure to check the socket if there are no pins blocked
I remember that Allendale Xeons 3050 were actually of worse die quality. Overclock could kill the core quickly. Might be that is still the thing with Westmere.
Nope. Westmere Xeons are GREAT overclockers. TechYES City has a lot of videos on OCing those Xeons.
No way to over clock Xeons on Mac Pro hardware.
I'm sure on the first cpu you were scraping the gunk off.
If you watch closely you can see the cpu pcb crack on the left as you're pressing down on the mat
Mhm you can 3D print yourself a delidding frame? One to nudge the indium solder till it fatigues and breaks off cold. The razor blades aren't entirely kosher, scratches on the substrate can cause pins being electrically severed.
Cracking the top off isn't as violent or stressful as you'd think. You're generally supposed to use a custom tool meant for your specific generation of CPU that has special tolerances for it. It only cracks the glue/rubber/solder holding the lid. Basically, it needs to be enough force to stress the glue but not enough force to harm the actual CPU. It's also usually done several times in small increments because, again, weakening the glue is what you're trying to do.
I would never do this though LOL, no way am I risking my CPU!
I have a 5,1 2010 Mac Pro. There’s no need to de-lid the CPU unless it’s a 4,1 2009 model. Upgraded to dual X5690s and 96GB myself during lockdown.
He said in the other videos he has a 4,1 with firmware upgraded to 5,1.
And the single CPU 4,1's are said to use lidded CPU's. Just the dual cpu 4,1 are delidded.
I would have tried the new cpu's with the lid and put the had sinks on with reduced tension if I had his computer.
If you have some plastic safe quick drying contact cleaner that could help. I had trouble getting my document scanner working so I gave it a very quick short shot of CRC quick drying contact cleaner and the did the same for the end of the USB cable while not plugged into the computer. It helped a lot. This dries quick so it should not linger in there. If you are worried it would linger leaving it in a room with a cross breeze or even a quick going over with a hair dryer will dry it. If you are in doubt and just want to play it safe wait overnight. This stuff says it doesn't conduct but I am not sure 100% how non conducting it is. You can use any other product of your choosing too if you happen to have something else. I am sure they are all similar in some way.
Maybe try to support the next CPU before it flys. There are some SMDs on there too. You put a lot of heat in it to melt that big solder, it takes some time for all the solder joints to resolidify. ;)
I hope the next one will work fine!!
My success ratio delidding LGA1366 with heat is about 50%... the last time I tried, I had the exact same problem with a dead RAM channel. Went for a mechanical tool which nails it every time.
I was just changing the air cooler to put the liquid one on my overclocked Xeon E5-2696v3 when I saw your video. You made me want to take the lid off. Now I'll take my hot air gun and do it !!! I have dozens of Xeons, Hurray 😄
Please use the deliding vice. Much easier, and is easier on processor (no sharp stuff going where it shouldnt and no extra heat).
RSVP that memory channel. I've never heard of a blown memory channel before, so that's definitely a new kind of fault for me.
I was considering upgrading the CPUs in my mac pro 5,1 similar to you, but perhaps I'll hold off until I've actually got a use for it (let alone the space to have such a behemoth actually set up in my tiny apartment).
they did surgery on a processing unit
You should closely inspect the delidded CPU and ensure there were no damaged or cut traces. The only issue with the razor method is that sometimes that can happen :(
My fine sir, as a guy who does this kind of stuff to PC's, my hat tips to you. However, you found the fault of the mighty XEON. Quality control lol. I do hope you get it working. I've been looking to do this to a MacPro of this year style, to build a Minecraft server for a world I've been building for 3 years. Would love to see you make it a success, and might I ask a tip? I have a iBook G4 1.33ghz and 1.25gigs of ram that I'd love to use to play on your Classic Cube server with, but I can't for the life of me find this things power adapter. Might you know a safe (for the machine not me) way of powering it? Thank you very kindly!
you can just buy another power adapter right?
8:07 That's most likely because of uneven or insufficient pressure from the heatsink onto the cpu, making some of the connections between the CPU and the LGA iffy or not connected. Direct-die is a bit tricky, i AM guessing the screws that hold the coolers onto the cpu and board are supposed to be torqued until they stop, meaning that the length of the screws/threads determines the pressure. In that case i'd try re-mounting the coolers and make extra sure to tighten down the screws gradually so that they make even pressure.
Haven't watched past this point, so i guess you might be solving this =)
This was a common problem on the early AMD Epyc cpus with huge LGA sockets, the classic symptom is that not all of the RAM shows up.
Oh, it follows the CPU, that's unfortunate. WAY less of a chance it's something to do with the LGA and mounting pressure, obviously, although it's still a possibility.
Never been this early before. Nice to see a fresh AR upload in the morning
I would say from expiriance, just cleaning the contacts of the cpu and the socket should fix the ram issue. I don't think a new cpu would be needed. Sometimes this sort of thing can happen when doing cpu swaps, and has happened many times with all the duel cpu systems I have personally messed with.
Was it just the editing or did you forget to clean the CPU dies after delidding? You scraped off (why?) the thermal paste instead of wiping it off?
I was thinking about the loss of Intel…
Wow, Westmere-EP Xeons. Those are first-gen Core arch. And I thought i was bad using a bunch of Xeon Haswell/EPs, lol
Okay but when do we get Haiku on the Mac pro?
I had one of these for a while, its final job before going on facebook was running VMs because it had so many cores to throw around. I ended up retiring it because of its idle power consumption being so high.
That delidding method was really cool, never knew that was a thing. Seems like the hot hair might've killed a memory channel inside the CPU, which explains why people do the vice method. Since they're not BGA chips, I'm guessing they're not really made to be reheated like that. They might be using different solder bump and underfill material to attach the die to the substrate.
I really doubt the heat killed it. Those things can handle quite a bit.
I also did this with mine. I bought pre-delidded cpus though. Any reason you didnt go with those or did you just want the experience? I also run liquid metal on mine. Also make sure you repaste the northbridge heatsink. It will really help the temps on it and its very sensitive to temperatures. Good luck!
Love that delid technique.
Working at an auto shop, nobody I work with uses those crimpers. I'm sure they work on a wider variety of connectors, but I just use the combination wire stripper/cutter/crimper things, more specifically the Ares 21002 or the Klein j207-8cr ones.
Treating the crimper opening as a U shape, the side with the seam always goes to the bottom of the U. You want to rest the seam against the rounded side while the punch thing presses into the other side.
Also, nobody I work with likes those T connectors. They're not reliable and they can damage the wires. I'm sure it's good enough for this hackey upgrade but I just don't trust them.
Not all cpu's silicon die's are the same height and can cause issues with direct die cooling as there is not enough pressure in certain areas on the LGA contacting the pins on the motherboard for it to work, most times its memory related. getting 2 identical cpu's or known as matched cpu's could fix this issue and also just could be more stable over all. I have a dual Xeon server myself and have found this issue to be the cause.
When i did this particular upgrade i didn't delid my new CPUs. I just didn't tighten the heatsinks all the way down.
So, water cooling and massive overclocking is next?
Hope you figured out the cpu ram problem. Pretty sure its to do with tension on the coolers not being in the happy little band it needs to be.
I think the memory controller is on the chip now, right? Maybe some of the connecting layer from the die to the bus pins got disconnected? IDK...
If that was a 5,1 as you claim at 0:01 then there would be no need to delid the CPUs.
In the other video he said it was a 4,1 with 5,1 rom .
I seem to remember seeing this a couple times and the "dodgy CPU" just needed to be reseated or tightened down a bit more
Time to talk about the power draw and thermals
Part 3 Thanks!