Great video. I’d love to see one of these done with the same model so the geometry would be the same. Something like a PM2 in K390, 15V and Maxamet battle.
Yes! Thats the only way to compare steels. Blade shape, length, thickness and edge geometry play a large role. The only way to factor that out is to use identical models.
I got a Manix 2 in Maxamet for $79 on the last online seconds sale. The knife is a true laser. My wife does paper cutting for crafts and when she tried it her mind was blown. I ended up gifting it to her and got a Magnacut Manix 2 to replace it. I live in coastal Alaska, so the Maxamet Manix was destined to be a house knife anyway. Plus, happy wife = happy life.
Great video. There is only 1 final thing to do. You pick: 1) Obtain a Shaman in Maxamet & repeat 2) Obtain Native 5 in 15V & repeat Sorry Dude. You’re the Cut Test King. Dood it!😜
The grain of the paper usually goes vertically so it’s usually easier to cut along the vertical side of a page. When cutting on the horizontal side of the page the cut is more likely to rip. Stupid little thing I’ve noticed I know but hey, it might affect your opinion of an edge.
I'm gonna go 15v Shaman when u compare the closeness of the tests I feel had the Shaman had the same blade geometry n everything else then it would b no contest but still impressed how well they both did in the test, great video dood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have a grey Manix 2 in Maxamet and I really prefer my S110V models ("blurple" G10 scales Manix 2 and Paramilitary 2) and not only for being stainless
It's a tough call since the Native 5 has the geometry advantage, but I'd still lean towards the maxamet. As you implied at the end, you'd probably have to cut 3 or 4 times the amount to start to see one pull away from the other. They are clearly both awesome options. I think for most users the 15v is probably the better option since its a little tougher even if it gives up a tad in edge retention.
I agree! I think the Maxamet stayed stickier a little longer, but damn it’s fragile! Both aren’t very tough at all, but you’re right 15V is probably the better choice overall because of that little extra toughness
Well, as you said yourself, it’s difficult to actually choose a “winner” in this test when blade geometry isn’t equal. According to Larrin Thomas, these are the highest rated “Edge Retention” steels in order, according to his lab results. (*Utilizing his grading criteria.) Top 5 (High Alloy Tool/High Speed Steels): 1. Rex 121 (score 12/10) 2. Maxamet (score 11/10) 3. 15V & Z-Max (score 10/10, equal in every other category as well) 4. 10V (score 8.5/10) 5. ZDP-189 (score 8/10) Top 5 (Stainless Steels): 1. S125V (score 9.5/10) 2. S90V & M398 (score 9/10) 3. S110V (score 8/10) 4. S60V (score 7/10) 5. M390/20CV/204P (score 6.5/10) Top 5 Overall: 1. Rex 121 (12/10) 2. Maxamet (11/10) 3. 15V & Z-Max (10/10) 4. S125V (9.5/10) 5. S90V & M398 (9/10)
zdp 189 is not a tool steel. it's a stainless cutlery steel that was created by Hitachi specifically for high end kitchen knives. It's only got chromium carbide, essentially the steel is 1/3 chromium carbide... there is a very tiny bit of vanadium added but only for grain refinement. It's also by far the easiest to machine, grind and polish steel that exists for it's given level of "edge retention." Holds an edge like10v but it grinds and polishes much more like VG10 than 10v.
Let me start off by saying that I do enjoy your test videos! Why? Because you cut more types of materials and things like cardboard, straps, leather....are materials which will come up much more frequent than clean, fresh, store bought stuff. It is true that all cut tests are good because as long as you can draw a conclusion...it will be useful. I have a Para 2 in Maxamet and one in 15V. Have not have time to test them like this but, at some point, I do intend to. However the 15v right now is at ~ 14dps while the Maxamet is at ~15dps....so I have to get them the same. What I have noticed: 15V did have an impressive edge that remained more aggressive even after a lot of stropping(both with factory edges). Did not test them head to head just in regular use...but that was "the felt" experience. Both the Shaman and the Native have a thicker grind(although my 15v Shaman is slightly thinner than my s30v). If you ever sharpen them to the same edge angle and with the same grits...i am also curious what would happen. What you said at the end...I always say: you'd have to do 3-4-5, maybe more, rounds, before you could say that there was a difference between such steels. So yeah....been watching your videos for a while now and just wanted to say that I really appreciate the info and your effort. Have a great day!
I love this comment! I appreciate it man. Yeah Maxamet and 15V are both insanely good. They may have slightly different characteristics but it seems they both keep a sharp edge for a long time.
All of Spydercos Super steels are too close which to me says they really don't optimize for each steel but rather for manufacturing considerations,imho its pretty sad
Maxamet holds an edge slightly better than 15V, but is less tough; likewise, 15V is a bit tougher than Maxamet, but doesn’t hold an edge quite as well. It’s the universal trade off in knife steels. You can’t have both maximum edge holding and maximum toughness in the same steel. Roughly, the more you have of one, the less you have of the other.
you didn't do enough cutting to actually dull these steels. thats a fact. if you want a more sensitive test, then try slicing free hanging paper towels. you will know quickly when that "fine edge" is gone. i dont consider either of these to be viable blade steels because they're both too brittle for "general use" much less in high performance geometries, which will have a more drastic effect on performance than the difference between any of the mentioned steels. However based on my experiences with 10v/k390, which imo is the highest edge retention steel that actually makes sense as a blade steel, these steels would probably still cleanly slice the paper towel after the use you put them through. you either need to cut something more abrasive or do more cutting. Also the hardness of these samples would be a factor as well as the geometry differences. Hardness only makes about 1 to 2% difference for each hrc in abrasion resistance, but when the abrasion resistance is already so high, a difference of say 3 hrc can add 6%, and 6% of a big number adds more than 6% of a little number if you catch my drift, that's the nature of compounding.
Love these cut tests brotha..I will say this I think it's impossible to get a clear winner and not take the performance of the steel Into consideration. Since a thinner geometry is going to continue to cut paper past its edge being lost..that said with spyderco heat treats being as good as they are I think maxamet is still king there although I'd also like to see their s90/s110v perform too..good stuff man hope you continue to do these
Yeah I mean you can get as technical as you want with it. Geometry matters absolutely but with that super thin paper I don’t know if the duller but thinner blade would make a clean cut. It would be an interesting thing to test. But we’ll never get rid of all the variables. Maybe? You’d have to make a jig to hold the paper the same way every time and have the knife attached to some kind of arm that brings the blade down at the same angle every time, at the same speed. And have the same knives with the same edges… I dunno. It’s too much haha Thanks man, glad you enjoyed it 🤘
My Spyderco Maxamet is steel colored glass, brittle and chippy with the most basic use. Very disappointing, can’t believe I paid this kind of money for a defective knife. Spyderco won’t do a damn thing either
Great Vid!, hard to judge, too many different variables. Ideally you'd need identical knives with identical flat angle sharpening. My money would be on the 15v. Either way, both are beast metals but I'd love to see a toughness test...$$$
Yeah totally. It’s hard to be completely fair. You’d even have to take a human hand out of the equation and have it on some kind of mechanical thing as it’s cutting
Great video. I’d love to see one of these done with the same model so the geometry would be the same. Something like a PM2 in K390, 15V and Maxamet battle.
Me too! I’ll make it happen sometime
Yes! Thats the only way to compare steels.
Blade shape, length, thickness and edge geometry play a large role.
The only way to factor that out is to use identical models.
I got a Manix 2 in Maxamet for $79 on the last online seconds sale. The knife is a true laser. My wife does paper cutting for crafts and when she tried it her mind was blown. I ended up gifting it to her and got a Magnacut Manix 2 to replace it. I live in coastal Alaska, so the Maxamet Manix was destined to be a house knife anyway. Plus, happy wife = happy life.
Man that’s a damn steal. Where at? I was born in wasilla and have family there and in seward
Great video. There is only 1 final thing to do. You pick:
1) Obtain a Shaman in Maxamet & repeat
2) Obtain Native 5 in 15V & repeat
Sorry Dude. You’re the Cut Test King.
Dood it!😜
Haha goddamnit you’re right.. 😂
The grain of the paper usually goes vertically so it’s usually easier to cut along the vertical side of a page. When cutting on the horizontal side of the page the cut is more likely to rip. Stupid little thing I’ve noticed I know but hey, it might affect your opinion of an edge.
Interesting! Ill do some testing on that theory 😁
@redone7283 is absolutely right. If a blade will push cut (no slicing action) down through the horizontal edge, it’s a dang sharp one!
@@doodysdaggers. It’s not a theory. It is an absolute fact.
I'm gonna go 15v Shaman when u compare the closeness of the tests I feel had the Shaman had the same blade geometry n everything else then it would b no contest but still impressed how well they both did in the test, great video dood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Awesome vid Doody! Ya ever though about gettin your hands on some of the mule team fixies to do some steel testing?
I have! Did you see they’ve got a new one in some crazy steel I’ve never even heard of. I really want it, but can’t swing it right now
Both are amazing. Thanks for doing the video.
Great video Dood!! You have to stress that Spyderco does the best in the industry with their metals.. Would be fun to compare to my Para 3 S110V! 😎♿️
I have a grey Manix 2 in Maxamet and I really prefer my S110V models ("blurple" G10 scales Manix 2 and Paramilitary 2) and not only for being stainless
Pretty impressive with the shaman's geometry of the blade🤙🏽
Yeah surprising!
It's a tough call since the Native 5 has the geometry advantage, but I'd still lean towards the maxamet. As you implied at the end, you'd probably have to cut 3 or 4 times the amount to start to see one pull away from the other. They are clearly both awesome options. I think for most users the 15v is probably the better option since its a little tougher even if it gives up a tad in edge retention.
I agree! I think the Maxamet stayed stickier a little longer, but damn it’s fragile! Both aren’t very tough at all, but you’re right 15V is probably the better choice overall because of that little extra toughness
Maxamet seems to be the winner to me. Good video. Thanks
Gotta get some rex121 in there. Have 2 knives in rex 121 and its such a crazy steel.
I’d love to try some!!
Well, as you said yourself, it’s difficult to actually choose a “winner” in this test when blade geometry isn’t equal. According to Larrin Thomas, these are the highest rated “Edge Retention” steels in order, according to his lab results. (*Utilizing his grading criteria.)
Top 5 (High Alloy Tool/High Speed Steels):
1. Rex 121 (score 12/10)
2. Maxamet (score 11/10)
3. 15V & Z-Max (score 10/10, equal in every other category as well)
4. 10V (score 8.5/10)
5. ZDP-189 (score 8/10)
Top 5 (Stainless Steels):
1. S125V (score 9.5/10)
2. S90V & M398 (score 9/10)
3. S110V (score 8/10)
4. S60V (score 7/10)
5. M390/20CV/204P (score 6.5/10)
Top 5 Overall:
1. Rex 121 (12/10)
2. Maxamet (11/10)
3. 15V & Z-Max (10/10)
4. S125V (9.5/10)
5. S90V & M398 (9/10)
zdp 189 is not a tool steel. it's a stainless cutlery steel that was created by Hitachi specifically for high end kitchen knives. It's only got chromium carbide, essentially the steel is 1/3 chromium carbide... there is a very tiny bit of vanadium added but only for grain refinement. It's also by far the easiest to machine, grind and polish steel that exists for it's given level of "edge retention." Holds an edge like10v but it grinds and polishes much more like VG10 than 10v.
Let me start off by saying that I do enjoy your test videos! Why? Because you cut more types of materials and things like cardboard, straps, leather....are materials which will come up much more frequent than clean, fresh, store bought stuff. It is true that all cut tests are good because as long as you can draw a conclusion...it will be useful.
I have a Para 2 in Maxamet and one in 15V. Have not have time to test them like this but, at some point, I do intend to. However the 15v right now is at ~ 14dps while the Maxamet is at ~15dps....so I have to get them the same.
What I have noticed: 15V did have an impressive edge that remained more aggressive even after a lot of stropping(both with factory edges). Did not test them head to head just in regular use...but that was "the felt" experience.
Both the Shaman and the Native have a thicker grind(although my 15v Shaman is slightly thinner than my s30v).
If you ever sharpen them to the same edge angle and with the same grits...i am also curious what would happen.
What you said at the end...I always say: you'd have to do 3-4-5, maybe more, rounds, before you could say that there was a difference between such steels.
So yeah....been watching your videos for a while now and just wanted to say that I really appreciate the info and your effort.
Have a great day!
I love this comment! I appreciate it man.
Yeah Maxamet and 15V are both insanely good. They may have slightly different characteristics but it seems they both keep a sharp edge for a long time.
I don’t have anything with Maxamet, but the two in 15V rock 👍
You’re not missing anything, they are so so similar!
What kind of strop do you have? I really need that one
I make my own strops. I sell them too, you can hit me up on IG or email if you want one
All of Spydercos Super steels are too close which to me says they really don't optimize for each steel but rather for manufacturing considerations,imho its pretty sad
I would love to have both!! Just carry both, that way you are covered!!!!!!
How does S90V stack up?
Oh it’s right up there with the big boys for sure. Excellent
It’s in the same ballpark, on a toughness vs edge holding chart.
Both are excellent . Too close to call but probably maxamet
Maxamet holds an edge slightly better than 15V, but is less tough; likewise, 15V is a bit tougher than Maxamet, but doesn’t hold an edge quite as well. It’s the universal trade off in knife steels. You can’t have both maximum edge holding and maximum toughness in the same steel. Roughly, the more you have of one, the less you have of the other.
you didn't do enough cutting to actually dull these steels. thats a fact. if you want a more sensitive test, then try slicing free hanging paper towels. you will know quickly when that "fine edge" is gone. i dont consider either of these to be viable blade steels because they're both too brittle for "general use" much less in high performance geometries, which will have a more drastic effect on performance than the difference between any of the mentioned steels. However based on my experiences with 10v/k390, which imo is the highest edge retention steel that actually makes sense as a blade steel, these steels would probably still cleanly slice the paper towel after the use you put them through. you either need to cut something more abrasive or do more cutting.
Also the hardness of these samples would be a factor as well as the geometry differences. Hardness only makes about 1 to 2% difference for each hrc in abrasion resistance, but when the abrasion resistance is already so high, a difference of say 3 hrc can add 6%, and 6% of a big number adds more than 6% of a little number if you catch my drift, that's the nature of compounding.
Maxamet is slightly harder than 15v anyway but I suspect this is as much a battle of edge geometries. Predict an easy win for the native 5.
looks like maxamet has a slight edge over the 15V. both have a stellar edge. spyderco puts out the best edges overall
Pretty fun cut test! I'm also a big sage 5 fan so my opinion can't be trusted.
Love these cut tests brotha..I will say this I think it's impossible to get a clear winner and not take the performance of the steel Into consideration. Since a thinner geometry is going to continue to cut paper past its edge being lost..that said with spyderco heat treats being as good as they are I think maxamet is still king there although I'd also like to see their s90/s110v perform too..good stuff man hope you continue to do these
Yeah I mean you can get as technical as you want with it. Geometry matters absolutely but with that super thin paper I don’t know if the duller but thinner blade would make a clean cut. It would be an interesting thing to test. But we’ll never get rid of all the variables. Maybe? You’d have to make a jig to hold the paper the same way every time and have the knife attached to some kind of arm that brings the blade down at the same angle every time, at the same speed. And have the same knives with the same edges… I dunno. It’s too much haha
Thanks man, glad you enjoyed it 🤘
The World,May Never Know.
That’s tough!
Right? Soooo close
What is your Opinion of REX-45?
Seems to be pretty good stuff!
I think it's a tie. I would be happy with either.
I agree!
My Spyderco Maxamet is steel colored glass, brittle and chippy with the most basic use. Very disappointing, can’t believe I paid this kind of money for a defective knife. Spyderco won’t do a damn thing either
I haven’t had a problem with mine 🤷🏻♂️
@@doodysdaggers wonder what the chances are that this blade was heated treated differently as in I got a “lemon” ?
fuck it, i am gonna buy you a cut proof glove lol
😂 I keep forgetting
So close, too close call on video. Especially with such a geometry difference. I'd have to trust your call on feeling the edge.
Yeah, it’s really close. I’d have to get more scientific with it to really be able to tell. Maybe get one of those sharpness testers
@doodysdaggers i believe them way less than what you tell me, those things are too finicky and easy to fudge the numbers
@@57HEMIviken that’s what I’ve heard, but I guess that’s the only option if you want actual numbers
@doodysdaggers nah just get both knives in the same steel lol
Great Vid!, hard to judge, too many different variables. Ideally you'd need identical knives with identical flat angle sharpening. My money would be on the 15v. Either way, both are beast metals but I'd love to see a toughness test...$$$
Yeah totally. It’s hard to be completely fair. You’d even have to take a human hand out of the equation and have it on some kind of mechanical thing as it’s cutting