What did we learn at Black Jack's lameness recheck?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ย. 2024
- We've been treating Black Jack's flexor tendon injury for a couple months now, and it was time to get him rechecked. In this video, I explain what we learned and decisions I need to make moving forward.
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Not knowing his past I really think the fair thing to do is to start him over. And the comments about him being "lazy" or a "brat" are not fair not knowing what he has been through. "The clever cowgirl" has a great video of one of her rescue bucking
I love Clever Cowgirl! (My husband laughs at me because I have so many horse people on my youtube favorites.) I don't think he's a brat, but I think he was irritated. His behavior strikes me as lazy, but he could very well still be in pain somewhere too. I've noticed he's not as "lazy" as he was when I bought him, so I think a lot of his calmness was him not feeling well.
@@HorseTaleswithBlackJack i meant the people in the comment section calling him lazy and a brat.
I love watching and learning from “The Clever Cowgirl”.
@@camillasaietz4856 I am one of those that believes Black Jack may be a lazy horse, but, I do not consider lazy a bad trait. In fact, it is a fantastic trait for those riders that want more whoa than go. What most people don’t understand is how to properly work a lazy horse. ‘Getting after them’ rarely works with this type of horse. They need to be rewarded whenever they try to do what you ask of them, even going so far as a reward if they just think about complying. Also, some laziness is a lack of muscle development. Most people don’t realize it takes time and consistency to build muscle and dexterity. Just because horses have big muscles doesn’t mean they are in condition to carry a rider. I agree with you that ‘brat’ should not be used with horses, who when treated fairly are the most accommodating animals on this planet.I also agree starting Black Jack over like a green broke colt will expose any holes in his training. And I like “The Clever Cowgirl” too.
@camillasaietz4856 I love the clever cowgirl as well! Love all your horses here.
So glad to hear that Black Jack is not in pain. You must be so relieved. Best wishes.
Thank you! I'm relieved that he's feeling better too!
Start him from the very beginning. Either working with a trainer, or find a trainer you absolutely trust to work with him. But it needs to be approached as if he’s never had anything done training wise. Baby steps.
You have him healthy. That’s absolutely the first step. Well done.👍
Thank you!!!
I came to say this…. He has learned the lunge is for bucking and riding may be the same. Needs to just walk and start over. No reason you can’t do it just take it slower than any trainer wants. Walk! You can practice lunging 2 circles on a long lead rope when you walk. Then teach a halt cue. Then love or treat! Build from these very small steps. Watch Steve young horsemanship videos
Steve Young is excellent. Take time to follow his site! I also believe building YOUR confidence is key. No one can know how a horse will respond , no matter how well trained. Things happen all the time, you just have to have confidence that you will respond accordingly. My second thought is to ride bareback. When you ride bareback you learn about yourself and the horse and you will have everything you need. Wishing you much satisfaction and joy in your journey!😂
He is a perfect candidate for a re-start, which I would recommend that you do along with your trainer. That way the money you spend on this will be invested in your skill set. This way you will idenfify the holes in his training, groundwork and horsemanship are such important tools to have in your toolbox.
Very good advice.
I agree...with gusto!!!
Black Jack like a kid who at some point learned his 'abc's' - maybe made it to the equivalent of 3rd or 4th grade, early on in his life.
And now, many years later after much neglect and misunderstanding
-- he is now the equal to a 35-40 yr old man with very few life skills, is in terrible shape physically (no exercise for a long time/flabby muscles), is terrified of more pain; has little or none of 7:54 the muscle tone needed to carry a rider with balance (definitely a part of the bucking issue, I would guess).
I really hope you are reading this...
I love Black Jack already!
Worse, sounds like his most recent experiences (before you bought him) were health issues that resulted in further very severe pain that was probably the cause of his misbehavior.
He was only trying to be heard!! Bucking, head tossing, etc. are all indications of a horse in pain that a Vet must check out (and money was a struggle for me, too).
Quick aside -- I once had a beautiful large Morgan that was sweet and full of energy; lunged well, trailered etc. quite well -- but he was a mystery. When I rode him, he felt almost 'careful'. At the trot, there would be a great deal of head-tossing and unhappy ears. At the canter -- well, he would go for 1-3 strides and then buck.
I tried conditioning at the walk, lunging to build up his muscles, lots of pasture time, but it continued.
The light dawned when I decided to try him over a grid of jumps only 18" high, at the trot, just to see if he knew how. His ears pricked, jumped smoothly and well -- and after the last jump he cantered -- and began to crowhop again. Turns out, he had a "kissing spine," where vertebra from the withers and under the saddle have shifted together (too much work at a young age, poorly-fitting saddle...), and caused him great pain at the canter.
Over the jumps, I was holding a gentle "two-point" position where my weight was out of the saddle and down in each leg. When I sat down, he became a crotchety, upset old man again! Great lesson for me...NEVER ASSUME (as someone
said above) THAT A MISBEHAVING HORSE IS A BRAT.
Now back to Black Jack -- if we put ourselves in his place;
he has a new, heaven-sent owner who obviously cares for him.
After his months, maybe years, of deep depression and isolation from other horses -- it is OBVIOUS that he cares for you and appreciates all you do for him...
How do I know? His staying close to you in the pasture, perfectly content to be near you, and occasionally come up to you for some reassuring, loving attention.
If a horse has serious behavior problems, they tend to be oppositional; ears back, "no-touchy", turn quarters to you, run or walk away in the pasture. You will know. You will feel their - not anger, per se;
Just their feelings of "I am so DONE with this -- every time I trust a human, I get hurt," are so clear.
Sorry - I could write a book...(1/2 way there...!)
To sum up, a few guidelines:
1. With this guy...he needs EXTREME love and patience (you are perfect for him). Vow to take your time.
2. ABSOLUTELY AGREE -- he needs to be re-started, just as if he were a
young colt again. Abc's.
3. Work with him and be around him as much as you can; continue with lots of soft touching everywhere, grooming, lifting of feet, and so on (as you are doing) -- really get to know all his moods, and he, yours.
4. I usually then start just leading them around...and begin voice training. Walk, halt, and when proficient, move to walk then trot. Last would be 'back'. Use a firm clear voice, not loud - their hearing is fine...
5. Find a trainer there (hopefully with references) to aid you in this journey.
Pay for a few sessions -- and be sure u tell the trainer you want this guy handled as a young colt in early training.
6. And most important: let the trainer know you request to
BE PRESENT AND A PART OF EACH
SESSION.
Forgive me for the length of this -- my heart just goes out to you -- BOTH of you have been used, badly treated, and misled; and feel that sense of grievance...you need each other -- both novices, who can form a relationship and TRUST in one another, over time and shared experiences!
(I was a rider/trainer/teacher for many years. Most of my time was spent teaching those of us who were backyard/boarding owners. If you would like to chat any further, I would be happy to listen and chat, if you would like. No $ -- I am retired, and currently live in the northern U.S. - MN, to be exact).
Thank you! That's great advice!!
Wow, what a ton of wonderful useful information here! I so value the time you put into sharing with me, and I'm reading this a few times so I can internalize exactly what you're saying. Thank you for pointing out that he really does care for me; I feel he does as well, but it's so great to have that validated by someone who knows what they're talking about.
I was born in MN, by the way! Very cool!
I'm so happy to hear that he's not lame!
Your gut instinct is spot on, have someone work with him before you get on. If he's feeling good now, he might be a bit more excited and willing to test boundaries. It's also important to realize that he has been rehabilitating and out of work, and now that it's time to work, horses can become sour. This is something a trainer can help him work through.
In the mean time, enjoy the great news!
Thank you!! I'm betting Black Jack has gotten used to his cushy life. I may just let him keep it. Still deciding!
Very happy for him that he's not lame! And you, as well, of course! 😊
One horsewoman told her husband, a novice, while they were on a trail ride: "Horses are afraid of two things... things that move, and things that don't move," and others have said that "behavior" inexplicable to humans usually stems from either fear, or pain/discomfort of some kind.
I just found out recently that, when an owner trims the hairs inside a horses ears.. not good! If I had a mosquito, or biting fly deep in my ear, I would 'misbehave' like a firecracker! That's just one example. Trimming flush with the outermost edge of their 'radar dishes' is okay. Also, never trim the hairs on their muzzle--extremely important for a horse's process of accessing the world around them... like a baby's hands.
You know, I just watched a video the other day that gave that exact information. I hadn't even considered trimming his ears or muzzle (because I haven't needed to trim him yet), but now I definitely won't!
As a Dressage judge in the UK who also trains horses and collaborates closely with the FEI and its guardianship program for equines, I have encountered various training challenges. One notable instance involved Roger, my Irish Draft, who consistently displayed resistance during lunging sessions. To address this, I adopted a systematic approach: I hard-tied him and then walked away for twenty minutes whenever he bucked or refused to move.
After three sessions in the barn, we transitioned to the outdoor arena. In this setting, I reinforced positive efforts with rewards and withdrew attention when he was non-compliant. This approach, rooted in consistent reinforcement and strategic disengagement, was rigorously applied over the course of a month.
The results were compelling. Roger's lunging improved significantly, and he began to comply with all my directives. This experience reaffirmed the value of demonstrating leadership through a blend of patience and kindness, thereby establishing authority in a way that promotes respect and effective training outcomes.
What a wonderful story! I love that! Thank you for sharing.
What on earth is 'hard tying'?
Never leave a horse tied alone!
@@dshe8637 Google it
I wish you had filmed some of the exercises that he was doing so we could see. That would’ve been really interesting to the viewers.
I know, I wish I had too. I'm just not comfortable yet filming everyone as they're working with my horse. Most people aren't wild about being put on TH-cam. But hopefully I'll get more brave as time goes on!
When he bucked & kicked, what did the woman lunging him do?
I am with your Husband on this. Work the problem.... Not only do you appear to have a good horse here. He needs to gain his confidence and happiness back to be a great horse and has he learns you learn. Wouldn't it be great to get your foot on the ladder to be a great trainer yourself? Good Luck and have a blessed day ❤❤🙏🙏
I am not a trainer nor a horse expert, but I commented one other time. I am the gal who is also struggling with my new horse. I was afraid of him for the first 3 weeks. John Lyons said fear is your instincts saying I'm going to get hurt. Trust it. But what I did is I found a place where I was comfortable and confidentish and started there. Every horse and rider is a team. The horse has weak points and the rider has weak points. I think you guys can work them out together. Jack has had some lay off time and not excited about working... I get it because I'm lazy too. Maybe ask for 2 jog steps with a happy attitude. Let him rest. Repeat both directions a few times and sprinkle in some walking exercises. Next time go for 4 steps happy and gradually increase. I commented with this person cuz I agree. You working with the trainer will grow your horsemanship and your relationship with Jack. Sending him somewhere will get jack to work for that person and you will still have to earn your place in the pecking order later. Start where you both can win. So round pen is intimidating? Start by jogging with a lead line in the aisle. I don't know where your starting place is but think about it and start there and find the trainer who will work your way and in your confidence zone. 100 small steps or 3 giant steps will get you through the same door, only the small steps are achievable by everyone. Enjoy your days 😊
This is such a lovely comment. Thank you!
Thank you!!
That's great news! I was curious if this photo was taken when he was lame or maybe it is the angle but he looks to be standing toe ing out esp on rt rear. I am no expert, but my ex husband was a horse trainer and taught me a bit about conformation. You are such a caring person and I hope he turns out to be everything you wanted. ❤ Don't be so hard on yourself.
At the end of the day, Black Jack couldn't have wished for a more loving owner. Im quite sure that's all that counts to him.
There are people who love horse's because of what the horse can do for them, and there are people who love horses for the horse's sake.
Im the latter, and i immediately recognise it in others.
Humanity owes this animal big time.
So thank you for loving your beloved BJ.
Gorgeous baby boy ❤❤❤
Thank you so much!!
'cant put all of our money into the horse fund' LOL My biggest fear after i die is that my husband will sell all my horse stuff for what 'I told him it cost" - so happy for the good news and totally agree, he can be that pasture pal for your new riding horse - blessings always & keep being kind!
Thank you!!! So far, I've been pretty open with my husband about the costs, but if I get a horse that I can actually buy tack for, that may change! lol
Don’t throw him away. Love and patient training will work!!! I guarantee 🥰❤️
I'll never throw him away. He's ours until he passes away.
When a horse is stalled a lot and not exercised daily they will buck on a lung line and kick at you and try to throw the line over their back and pull away and run off especially if they were never trained well in the beginning I wrapped my line around my wrist one time knowing that you’re not supposed to and my horse threw the rope over his back took off and drug me just got a little dirty and taught me a good lesson it’s difficult to call it quits especially when you like your horse you’ll know when it’s time there are to many good ones to mess with one that is a constant worry or will get you hurt and ruin your life long dream and he will still have a good home
There's a lot of wisdom to this. As long as he has a good home, that's all I want for him. I will happily purchase a horse more appropriate to me and continue to give Jack a happy life. Thankfully, I can do both.
I would like to know what kind of injury he has. I heard you say " flexor", and that he is receiving some sort of "injection". Is this in regard to a tendon? There are many options, many different treatments, and mostly, a lot of hope for this, depending on the tendon involved and the injury. Thank you and I wish you the best.
@@Makado14 He has an old injury to his flexor tendon, one that predates me buying him.
Sounds very treatable. Just takes time. Good luck, he is a beautiful horse.
Do ground work with him. The lunging will get better, don’t worry. Have a GOOD trainer work with him and you. Training costs a lot of money. I have a 3yr old that I’ve raised from 9 months of age and currently working with a trainer. When the trainer lunged him for the first time he bucked. I said to my trainer I’ve never seen him buck. He is fine now for the trainer. Don’t expect things to be perfect. I ride this horse, even hack alone on him at the walk /trot no cantering yet because he is so young.
I was a newbie when I bought my horse and your experience really reminds me of mine. I would encourage you not to jump into anything expensive right away. I thought lame was lame. It really isn't. There is a scale. Some will tell you that your horse is "lame" when it really isn't that big a deal. Also just because he was sound yesterday doesn't mean he is today. They rate the lameness on a scale and finding a horse that is never lame seems to be like finding a unicorn. I would also not be quick to assume he is being naughty because he bucks. I suspect there may be some pain going on somewhere that is causing that. It is a journey trust yourself and listen to your horse and your horse. :)
Thank you! You're right about finding a horse who's never lame!
The horse appears cow hocked & even splayed in the back, which might make the circling of lunging harder. Yes, he could be in pain while lunging.
@@MegF142857 Yes, he’s es very cow-hocked. Not quite sure what splayed means, but his conformation is a mess, so it wouldn’t surprise me
Just looked up what splayed looks like, and he does look like that. I figured it was from being cow hocked.
Stay consistent. Love him with a gentle firm hand. As he learns to trust you and heals from his trauma all these behaviors will pass. Love him and know he is def your project horse. Lots of patience, lots of love, and kind, gentle but firm. He is beautiful. Imagine how rewarding for you and for HIM when he makes even a tiny breakthrough. You got this and my bet he will def be your heart horse.
Thank you!! I can see him being my heart horse too, even if I end up retiring him from riding. You just can't beat his personality.
So glad he's not lame right now. I think getting him assessed by a trainer sounds like a good idea. Getting as much information as you can about him so you can make the best decision for both of your futures is wise. Fingers crossed for both of you.
Thank you!! My fingers are crossed too!
He may have spine and hip issues too. He does stand like it on those back feet. You must be slow in rehabbing him back.He needs massage therapy. He may not be a good fit as a beginner.
Thanks. Yeah, his conformation isn't the best. He's cowhocked in the back and toe-in on the front. Poor guy.
@@HorseTaleswithBlackJack Which makes it difficult and uncomfortable for him to carry weight. Hence the bucking?
Were any X-rays taken to make sure there is no wobblers?
I'm really happy to hear Black Jack is no longer lame. Hopefully his bucking is just some spoiled brat behavior and he'll learn not to do it.
I hope so! Or even if he's just sore or unbalanced. I've got the chiropractor coming out tomorrow so we'll see what she says!
He is testing the hierarchy, gelding are famous for this, increase your knowledge and enjoy the ride!
Mares do it too. Horses don't want to work if they can avoid it, and he's now got behavioral problems.
@@shashakeeleh5468 it’s not about not wanting to work it’s about herd dynamics, horses do not speak English. We are such narcissists we think everyone thinks like we do. 😂
@@waytogoranch You're idiotic. You're going to get her hurt, but you don't care...
@@waytogoranch You don't care if this woman gets hurt or not. Enjoy the ride!
@@shashakeeleh5468don’t be disingenuous she meant enjoy the learning process…and when he’s ready, enjoy the ride. A little play on words, I think.
I just want to say thank you for posting the ups and down with Black Jack. I adopted a dog 5 months ago with undisclosed behavioral issues and several expensive medical bills- and whenever I feel overwhelmed I think of you two and model how calm you are about everything. Have my fingers crossed for you two
Awwww! Thanks! I hope things get better with your dog! I know how expensive that can be! We have dogs too (I actually know a lot about dogs, unlike horses lol), and it can be really hard when you have both behavior and health issues.
I had one like this. Looked almost identical. Found out by DNA part of his name was Black Jack too. I love how you are approaching this. My guy would try hard (after he fell in love with me) and I found he really needed a wide tree saddle. No more stalls either. He was a lot of horse. Had him for almost 10 years when he passed at 28. You just might find out he’s extremely smart. I was temped to get those buttons like they have for cats and dogs to communicate but then realized I already knew what he wanted. I have another 2 now doing great.
My plan is to get Black Jack out into pasture boarding once he's doing better. I think he'd like it more. Good point about the saddle. I have one, but honestly, I'm not sure how well it'll fit. He's a pretty wide boy for a quarter horse!
I am a instructor in the uk ,used to breaking and dealing with unruly horses that have been put on the scrap heap by others and or passed from pillar to post ...Firstly can I say that I am sorry that you were duped .There are so many unscrupulous people out there and its seriously not funny when you are a novice, in fact it's just down right dangerous to sell a horse knowing that it has problems without declaring them .
I would try something first ( only because we've had horses in that have been like him and they were cured in a matter of months of bad behaviour ) Give him a 'light' sloppy(wet) feed an hour before work and again afterwards .This is because he could have ulcers caused by distress of being moved and being permanently in .Grouchey horses that are otherwise respectful except whilst being worked is a clear sign..... To do this actually costs you nothing other than a bit of extra feed .I would also speak to your vet about the possibilities, though I know a scope would cost you money .However your vet may give you a short course of some treatment for ulcers without a scope to see if he improves .Also make sure he has access to hay /food 24/7 unless of course he is laminitic .
Also, you know, he could just be getting his mojo back.feel really well and happy and just bluntly too much for you to handle as a novice .It is ok for him to rear and buck on the lunge .It is however, not ok for him to do be doing it under saddle and there is a mile of difference in between the two. .
I am going to try and say this gently ..............horses are all dangerous willy nilly of their temperment.Any horse can freak out, buck, rear ,spin around and have you off no matter what stage of riding you are at and how good they are or have been trained. They are fight and flight animals. No horse should be trusted 100%.
This horse, if I am understanding right, had been stabled 24/7 for months prior to you buying him?If I took the most sanest of my horses out on the lunge, put him in a field or on a horse walker after being in a box like this poor chap , they would fly about rearing and bucking just because they were free to do so even if some poor soul was on the end of the lunge line and even if its months later.Only because they are fearful of being boxed again or just plain darn happy to be out !!Thats what horses do with a bit of freedom after being boxed ! Its not their normal habitat .Rearing on a horse walker might frighten you looking at it , but honestly wouldnt me knowing his history .Neither would the bucking .As long as he doesnt do it under saddle !! I've got a few that would buck and mess about in the horse walker, yet are the most docile animals whilst riding them .
I can say that if you are scared of this horse before you even start , this is not going to end well .If he knows he can take advantage and hes that way inclined, you and him are doomed and you are going to get hurt as a novice or put off of riding for life .Sending him off to be trained without you is the worst thing that can happen , including a waste of money .As soon as he comes back , you still will have the same horse and I tell you for why...YOU are still the same .Its YOU that needs the experience and the training..........once a bucker always a bucker, once a rearer always a rearer .A part from if he has a sore misaligned back for example, ulcers, tack that doesnt fit or some other excuse for the bad behaviour and he hasnt always done it.
If I was your instructor, because of the investment you have already made in him and he seems such a sweet boy in the stable,I would tell you to let someone experienced handle him for a few weeks to see what he does and just observe. I would ignore the bucking on the lunge because he could just be getting energy out.But I would lunge him before riding to take the edge off of him.I seriously would let someone else ride him to see what he does .........maybe he hates menages or round pens but is church mouse quiet on a trail .You wont know until someone tries ,but please dont let that be you or at least have an instructor present or someone with knowledge who could quickly take charge.
Please also be aware all those reading with no idea , horses are sent to auction for a reason.Bought as seen,no questions asked and whilst you might get a horse dirt cheap,goodness knows what else you are getting with it . .Please dont buy from an auction. .Most family/novice horses are advertised privately and cost a lot of money if they are novice friendly .Also be very aware that horses might have been given a mild sedation without you knowing or another trick is withholding water for over 24 hours which has the same affect which cannot be traced via drug testing.People are unscrupulous out there.
All my horses are sent out on a loan basis first for a few weeks to try and I am gonna be honest when i say that I would not be allowing any novices .Whoever you bought this boy off of, needs shutting down , named and shamed before they unalive someone and you need your money back . I am sorry this is happening to you .Get some help, get good advice, remember horses can take the mickey and need kind discipline and continue to boot and bandage those legs even though he is sound. xxx
Wow, thank you for that comment. Very thought provoking and I honestly appreciate every bit of it. Rest assured, I'm not getting on him until people I trust tell me it's safe. I'm not scared of him at this time, since I'm not riding him, and if he's deemed safe for me, I won't be afraid to get on him. I certainly won't be doing it alone though.
The guy I bought him from absolutely needs shutting down. It's disgusting what they're doing at that barn.
You must be so relieved. Best wishes.
I am! Thank you!
Glad he’s better. I’m sure I don’t have more advice for you. You and your wise husband are correct to just let things develop and cope with whatever it is then. It could be that lack of exercise because of his health issues is causing the misbehavior. Keep on taking your lessons!
My lessons are my favorite part of each week, so I'm definitely continuing!
At the end of the day, he’s feeling better than he has probably in years and him kicking his heels up on the lunge is ok as long as he does not do that under saddle. That being said horses need confident leaders, soak up as much information learned as much as you can and enjoy the process. Horses are for sure a journey not an event. He is very lucky to have you as most wouldn’t have put the time or day into him. The more you learn how to work with him the more he will gain your trust and see you as his leader( remember these are prey animals and will always test boundaries to see if they can rise in the pecking order, even with their human counterparts) it does get better as time goes on, hang in there and enjoy every moment 😊 you are wise for seeking help from a knowledgeable trainer to help you along, being you are new to horses her advice/leadership can be invaluable to you to help you along with him❤️
Thank you for your kind words! Black Jack is definitely a journey. I'm curious to see where we're going to end up.
I appreciate your love for Black Jack, and all the care you have given him. I can only assume you did not buy him as a pet, but rather as
a riding partner. Instead of spending untold thousands on restarting him with a reputable trainer, you might instead find a new equine mount already trained, ready to ride, and appropriate for your level of horsemanship. As you said, Jack is not lame right this minute, but he is an older horse with a past of serious health and behavioral issues.
I'm right there with you on this thinking. My husband and I know we'll need two horses once we move out to our own land when we retire. Black Jack may end up being the companion horse, and that may happen sooner rather than when we retire.
I AM SO HAPPY FOR YOU AND BLACK JACK.... I LOVE HEARING ABOUT HIM. HE IS SO FINE! HAPPY TRAILS TO YOU!
Thank you!!!
This is tough. This happens to the best of buyers. The silver lining is that you will learn so much as a horsewoman from this. So much more than if you had bought a perfect, completely sound "push button" horse.
You are exactly right! I have learned a ton!
I think you’re doing a great job! It makes me happy to see you living out your dream of being a horse owner. I’m still waiting on that myself, but I know someday I’ll get my very own ☺️
I hope you do! Please learn from all my mistakes!!
Super Wonderful News! :) 🤗🤗
Sure is!
So happy for you! Your patience and diligence has clearly paid off. This is so wonderful to hear 💜💜💜 Starting to suspect Black Jack has simply learned over the years that he can avoid working by displaying bad behavior. Like a spoiled child who pitches a fit until they get the toy…. Hoping that’s the issue. I’m glad your trainer pushed through and kept on with the lunging and you had a pretty good session with him. Perhaps he’ll figure out the bucking won’t earn him a turn out in the pasture and will start to simmer down. You’re tenacious and work through things like an Engineer. BTW, I love his mane is now lying down and looks like it’s coming in kind of silky.
Thank you for your kind words! Yes, his mane is starting to look much better! His forelock though... I've no hope for that. lol I visited with a lady yesterday who knew him when he was at his old barn, and she told me that he really does have a lovely mane when it's not roached off. I was happy to hear that! (It's the little things at this point...)
He’s sound 🙏 that’s great news and doesn’t he look fantastic. But the bucking 😬 seems to be a learned behaviour from his past, so it’s back to basics with the trainers at your barn. I feel for you, it’s one step forward and 2 steps back. I love the way you don’t give up on him. I’m looking forward to hearing how the assessment goes and thank you for sharing your highs and lows with us. Your husband sounds as though he’s very supportive. I want to whisper in Black Jacks ear and say “don’t blow this buddy, you’re in a good place” 😊
Awww! Thanks! I don't think can blow it. I may decide to retire him, but even if I do, he's still got a good home with me.
I'm so happy for you that Black Jack is sound. I'm sure you'll get past this bucking issue.
Thank you!!
I’m so happy he’s sound! I love following your journey! I just wanted to comment to be careful with lunging to early in his rehab process, it can put extra strain on horses’ tendons. For horses rehabbing at my barn (upper level eventing) usually we start with long walks under saddle everyday for 30-40 mins and gradually incorporate trotting and cantering by a couple minutes until the horses strength is back! Maybe you can ask your vet for a rehab fitness plan? Anyways, good luck! I’ll keep watching!
Thank you! You’re the second person to mention that lunging is hard on the tendons, and I didn’t know this before. I appreciate the callout!
Yes, this! Lunging puts a TREMENDOUS amount of strain on their legs and I’m very surprised your vet cleared him to do this so soon after a tendon injury. Most horses I’ve worked with who have had this type of injury have had 60+ days on box rest followed by 30-60 days turnout in a small area, and then a couple months walking under saddle on good footing before resuming faster work. It is tempting to speed up the workload and training during the rehab process, but I cannot stress enough how easy it is to completely undo all that healing progress with a premature return to work, especially because many horses will jog sound well before their tendons or ligaments are fully healed. Did your vet re-ultrasound the tear to see that it has in fact healed, or did he just do a flexion test? I rarely if ever comment on videos, but rushing this horse back into training (and longing) seems like a disaster waiting to happen and you seem like a nice person who just wants to do right by her horse.
It is such good news that he is sound. If you have a trainer on board I think he will become a reliable horse. Fingers crossed from Germany.😊
Thank you for the well wishes!!! Waving to you over there in Germany!
He is so lucky to have you! Sounds like he just needs lots of groundwork. Dont give up! I've been there. I studied many books and many hours of videos to learn how to do it myself. You can do this! I had to teach myself because trainers are too expensive. I now have a great horse and we went through a lot of crow hopping and attitude adjustments. Don't give up!❤
Thank you!! Thankfully, the trainers at the barn are working with him for a few weeks to make sure his training is tuned up and that he's safe for me. They told me he's being a gentleman for them. And I'm not giving up!!
So happy to hear this 🤠🐴
Thank you!
Your thoughts and viewpoints are so similar to mine when I first got my horse (and likely reflects the thoughts of many first time novice horse owners !). My horse hated
to be lunged and his behavior on the lunge line made me very anxious. But looking back now two years later I think it was because he had a lot of fear and likely pain. He wasn’t lame but I believe he had residual pain from previous injury (he is lame now though from a suspensory ligament injury). So I stopped lunging him. I watched a million TH-cam videos and found the ones that worked for me and my level of comfort with a horse (which was very minimal !). One lady that I watched at the time taught me a lot even though she is just putting out videos of her daily life with her horses and is not a trainer. I started using her approach because it worked for me and my comfort level. I feel now that it was also what worked for my horse and his comfort level. We have never lunged with a lunge line since. I did do some free lunging with him which worked out much better ! I think he felt trapped by the lunge line itself. Anyway, these are the horses that teach us the most sometimes and he may be just what you need to get the best horse for you next time
Thank you for your comment! I think you're right about his behavior being distressing for me because I'm a novice. My riding instructor was totally unphased, except for thinking that he might not be safe enough for me quite yet. And I certainly appreciate that!! I'm glad you were able to figure out what works for your horse... but sorry to hear about the suspensory ligament injury. Ugh.
I'm so happy he's sound! I did groundwork lessons for my horse with a personal friend who also really knows how to handle horses. It's really going to help your confidence with him if you do that. You need to establish leadership and I understand that's not always easy to do. I'm about to start trying to rehab my boy since he seems to be recovering really well from Lyme. His topline has really disappeared since he got sick. Keep up the good work!
I've been noticing Black Jack's topline is getting worse too. Makes sense considering he's had not much of any activity for months. I'm glad to hear your boy is recovering!!
I'm so happy to hear that Black Jack is no longer lame 😀 you're the best owner he could ever have gotten! 🐴❤I might have a piece of advice for you, that I got from my vets to keep me safe, from when my horse got back in to ridden work after an injury. Not sure if it will work for you guys or if it's advice you would feel is the right for you. But it really did work for me and my horse and it kept me safe. Do you have an E-mail address I can use to write you?
I'm so happy he's sound now too! Fingers crossed he stays that way.
He has learned that being a brat gets him what he wants...so he needs loving discipline from a knowledgeable trainer!! ❤
BINGO! IF that tendon is healed, then, that's exactly what he's doing. "Merely testing boundaries" is not 'mere'. It can get a person killed if they don't know how to handle it, and she does not know how to handle it.
@@impunitythebagpuss Being a “brat,” as you call it is merely testing boundaries. A good trainer will be an invaluable guide.
Just my thought I am 78 and have been ridding since I was 20 had no experience my husband and I said let’s buy a horse we went to the sale barn and bought two horses for $60 each two saddles for $65 each took them home got on them the next morning and went on a seven hour trail ride we knew nothing about them but they rode just fine I like to try different horses so we would take those horses back to the sale and get different ones I had no fear and have been drug off thrown off had a horse run three miles wide open couldn’t stop him until he hit the highway and fell he jumped up kept running and went home I’ve been hurt so many times that at my age I shouldn’t be able to walk but all this was fun to me until one reared up fell over backwards on me and my husband pulled me out from under him I’ll try to make this short if I were you and you love Black Jack and you can afford another horse I would leave him alone and get me a horse that would take care of you and you could go ride with no worry of wondering what he is going to do or if he is going to be sound I can tell you that his injections will last three month if you’re lucky he is 14 and not going to change enough for you being a beginner and even if a trainer rides him for you he is ridding the trainer wants him to and he won’t ride the same for you if you have the money buy you a horse that is going to be the same everyday and that you can get on and ride without any fear or wondering what he is going to do or if he is going to come up lame just enjoy what you have always wanted to do Black Jack is 14 you have no actual history on him the kicking on the lung line could be from staying in the stall to much or being worked on a lung line to much they get burned out on that and start resisting by bucking kicking or just pull away and run off I would find me a horse that I could enjoy now and quit worrying about Blackjack just take care of him give him a good home and if you have the money hire a trainer at your barn where you can see how he is treated and how much he improves try it for a few months if you want to you need to see him ridden everyday to see a change in him and you don’t have to pay thousands of dollars for a well broke horse Black Jack may never change he had been abused ridden when he is in pain aced to keep him calm and given butte so he could perform get you a horse that you can ride and continue you dream before you get hurt and not have the worry of this one horse you will give him a good home and medical care but I wouldn’t invest thousands of dollars in training a 14 year old horse that has medical issues and probably had enough of people try it for a few months see if he stays sound and if consistent ridding without being cowboyed helps him Good Luck with your decision
Horses don't have a frontal cortex, being purposely bad or being a brat isn't a thing
Thank you for your comment. I think you're most likely right that it doesn't make sense to dump money into him for training. I should probably save that money for a horse that I can ride and enjoy. I'll be keeping Black Jack and he'll have a great life. I'm sure he wouldn't mind being retired AT ALL!
I'm so happy to hear this. I'm praying he will be a good fit for you.
Thank you!!
I’m so happy for you that BlackJack is doing better! I can totally relate to your story. After 16 years away from riding I decided to get back into it in my fifties. I also bought a horse that had the same issues, she had foundered. My vet didn’t catch it on her exam but my farrier did and we are in the process of getting her back to hopefully being sound. I know we have a long road ahead and I was just saying that I’ll probably have to have her completely restarted when and if she is rideable. If not maybe we can do a little light liberty or something. Regardless I know what will happen if I don’t keep her and I can’t even think about that. Right now she’s a pretty and costly pasture ornament! Good luck with him and I look forward to seeing your future videos with him!
Thank you for watching my videos! I’m sorry that you’ve found yourself in a similar situation. I hope she feels better soon. At least we know nothing bad is happening to our horses…
so glad he's feeling better
Thank you!
You sound very sensible in talking about the “problem”.
I have learned a lot from my husband. :)
He healed faster than I thought. It was so nice to hear that he is sound. The bucking sounds like the combination of a lazy/and or flabby horse and a hot day. Sounds counterintuitive, since bucking takes effort, but may have worked in the past to make the human quit. Being black, he may have been even hotter. I’d be curious to see if his attitude improved on a cool morning. He may also be depressed and in a poor frame of mind. Auction, bad experience at the last barn, then lame. I can’t really blame him if he thinks ‘work’ means long, hard, and painful. Replacing those experiences with good ones will help him come out of it. Because he is so well trained in all other ways and appears to have a good mind, putting some money into him for evaluation seems worth it to me. A couple months would seem like more than enough to determine whether he can be a good riding partner for you.
It was certainly hot that day; I think it was almost 100. Texas summers are the worst. I don't really blame him either. He's had so much bad and then so much change, even if it's for the better, it's still probably hard.
Yay! I'm so happy for you and Blackjack. Time to live his best life.
I'm definitely trying to get him there!
Great news
Thanks!
OMG how exciting!!!! I’m sooooooo happy for you both!! He is a lucky boy. Enjoy him ❤
Thank you!
There could definitely be some underlying pain he is experiencing that isn’t showing up in a lameness test, but it is also likely a learned behavior. If he bucks and gets spicy, he gets to stop and get put up. He is going to test you every chance he gets to see where your limit is. If he bucks, correct him but keep going. Get someone to help that has more experience until you get the experience and work out that relationship with him. Know you are both going to have good days and bad days, but try to end the lesson on a good note, when things are going well for him and he is doing what you ask. I’ve been out of horses for a while now so I’m not sure who is the most popular trainer any more, but in college we studied Monty Roberts and his teachings. From one TX horsey girl to another, good luck and I’m rooting for the two of you!
Thank you for the well wishes! Thankfully, I have the chiropractor coming out tomorrow, and I'm hoping she can give me some insight into whether or not he's having pain anywhere. I agree about him not being allowed to get away from the bucking, which is why I will probably get him some formal training. I just think it's beyond my skill level at this point, and I want to do right by him (and for me!).
Anyone who has commented that a horse is lazy, or a brat... is not a horse lover. Humans are often projecting their internal illusions onto animals.
Yeah, I think it's just people's way of describing a horse's behavior. Black Jack isn't lazy, he's just super chill and relaxed.
Thanks for the lameness up-date and the great results. Am curious as to the trainers response to his not respecting you - he has gotten away with this behavoir😊 before - horses are smart enough to know if a person is a "newbie" or experienced around them. Your trainer seems willing to help you with him, so let her evaluate him for you ! Best of luck....God bless ....😊❤😊
So far, they’re not worried about his behavior as he’s been nothing but a gentleman since then.
Hey that's great news that he's not lame!! ❤
If he's not suspected to be in any pain I would just push through with his behavioural issues for a bit and see if things improve. Sometimes horses can get very cheeky, if they pop a buck and get their own way they will very quickly learn to use this to their advantage. I have one who does this ... He will have a little tantrum and then get on with it.
Black Jack doesn't strike me as a very cheeky guy, but maybe that's all it is! :)
@@HorseTaleswithBlackJack not necessarily a naughty kind of cheeky, but they do certainly learn how we respond to things and absolutely know how to wrap us around their hooves 😂
I was thinking actually, could it possibly be a habitual response following his lameness? I knew a horse with kissing spines years ago, and even after his surgery he would buck and throw fits. It took him months to realise that work didn't hurt him any more, it was like he was having a trauma response, but eventually he accepted it and now he is loving life again.
It's such a thin line to walk when dealing with stuff like this. So many possibilities to consider ... Is the horse still lame? Is there something else wrong with him? Does he hate the work? Is he just being cheeky? Am I just not asking the right questions? It's a minefield even for an experienced horse person. The main thing is that you listen to him though. Us lot tapping away on our keyboards can only share our thoughts but at the end of the day you know him and I'm sure he will tell you if something is off
Two recommendations: Chris Irwin and Ryan Rose. Both have excellent teaching material online. Even if you hire trainers for BJ, they will be great help for you. Chris teaches a lot about body language that solves many problems such as the lounging issues.
I haven't heard of Chris Irwin. I'll look him up! Thanks!
@HorseTaleswithBlackJack Chris is unique. He teaches horse psychology more than horse training. Steve Young in the UK is also fabulous but I suspect his name has already been brought up. I have had great results finding and eliminating pain issues using chiropractic. I suspect you have several things going on. You have received a lot of good advice from the group and you are asking yourself all the right questions. Just remember, no matter what you decide, there is no perfect answer or no "wrong" answer. You look at the whole picture and do the best with what you have.
@@lisanadinebaker5179 Thank you! And thanks for the reminder that there’s no perfect answer. Also, I had a chiropractor see him earlier this week. Video coming out later today!
Congratulations ! 🎈🎉🍾
Thank you!!
I am sooooo happy for you guys!!!!
Thank you!!!
Yeh well done
Thanks!
Such wonderful news!
Thank you!!!
I really think you should buy another horse if you can find someone you trust that can find you a good one. I think Black Jack will cost a lot to train and his soundness issues could comeback at anytime. You said you wouldn't mind keeping as a pet, plus who knows what kind of treatment he had before they auctioned him. I just think it would be cheaper to get another horse, just don't rush into anything. Get a vet check before you buy, vets can tell if the horse is drugged or lame. I don't mean to sound bossy, I just think you should be happy. You could still exercise Black Jack maybe bring him back slowly so maybe he won't go lame again.
Honestly, I admit this is what I'm leaning towards. If he didn't have the lameness issue (plus his conformation issues), I'd feel a lot better about spending money to get him trained. But those things will always be hanging over our head.
@@HorseTaleswithBlackJack I know your a beginner but I would look for a 5-7 year old quarter horse that's usually a good age if they have enough riding.
@@orchids5557 thanks!
I just found your channel and that's great news! I think you really might like the playlist on the Horseman Science by Andy Booth channel. You will never call a horse lazy, brat etc again (you already don't, but some people do). According to him horses don't buck/rear/misbehave to spite anyone, it's an answer to a problem they are presented. If it solved a problem once, they will try it again. It's sometimes sobering but very useful information.
I recently started riding lessons to fulfill a childhood dream too! heh :)
Thank you! I try very hard not to attribute human characteristics to my animals, but it IS hard (more so with my dogs than my horse). I think Black Jack seems "lazy" to some because he he's a very low-energy kinda guy. I'm actually very fine with that; it was one of the reasons why I bought him. But I don't call him lazy...he's just low energy. :)
@@HorseTaleswithBlackJack Same! Not criticizing you at all! I have a hard time with it too. We are storytelling monkeys after all. My lesson horse does not want to go forward if not told to too (really helped with improving my seat! I do NOT get away with bad shrimpy posture). Lazy is just the human's lazy term for a horse that has reasons not to be forward. ;)
@@ScribblemouseScribbles Love “storytelling monkeys!” ❤️
Very good to hear he is sound!
I agree you do need help from an experienced person who can teach you about horsemanship, not just riding.
He is just being a horse, challenging your leadership, just like he would push another horse in the herd.
Maybe your trainer could lunge him if she feels that’s necessary.
Personally I’m not keen on lunging or horse walkers. They are a bit mind numbing for many horses.
Also does he live out with other horses?
Being able to socialise and run around with a herd is THE most important thing for a horses well being.
It is natural to feel worried by these things as a beginner.
Try and have a sense of humour about it, and most inportantly find the right support, whether it be a knowledgeable friend or your instructor.
Enjoy the learning experience safely
Thank you for your comment! Yes, he is turned out daily (well, nightly right now) with other horses. He has friends. :) I definitely need help with experienced people. Lots of it! lol
Temper tantrums!! Yes. You said it.
I’m so glad your going to have him restarted by a experienced trainer. He’s learned that acting that way gets him out of work and that behavior needs to be unlearned.
I’m so glad that you’re on the right track.
I think with extensive training he could be good for you but if your soft with him I think he’d go back to being a brat. I don’t know 🤷♀️ I’m just happy you can move forward now !! 👍
And maybe he doesn't act out again... it's so hard to tell. Still not sure if I should retire him (given his age and injuries) or put money into training him.
I have been enjoying your journey with BJ, bumps and all! So glad his lameness is taken care of! You just vaguely touched on exactly what I was going to ask about...$$$. I am in the same boat you were in not long ago - grew up obsessed with horses, have been asking for one since 2yrs old, early 50's now, many years of sporadic experience, and like you said in a previous video, starting to think about time differently⏳️ Chomping at the bit (as they say) to just get a horse of my own already, and wondering if it'll take my life savings, my retirement savings, the kids' measly inheritance, or d) all of the above! I know you haven't talked numbers, but throw a girl a rough idea?? Thanks! And continued good luck with training, and hopefully, riding him! 😊🇨🇦
So far, just with the vets and initial cost of the horse (not counting board and all tack/equipment/treats/etc.), it's over $13,000.
@HorseTaleswithBlackJack Wow, thats like, a million in CAD$, LOL🤑! Guess I better recount my pennies! I know everything equine-related is super expensive, and I hope/think I'm prepared. Thank you so much for the response, best of luck with getting his training sorted out. I'll be watching!
@@HorseTaleswithBlackJackunfortunately that is just the beginning. Hopefully after you get him “assessed” you can logically decide the best plan. As long as you disclose his physical and behavioral issues there is no shame in refining him. There ARE sound and beginner appropriate horses out there for you. Don’t wait until you are too emotionally and financially invested to be able to make a hard decision. Ask me how I know!! The last thing you want is to get injured needlessly. At our age broken bones are no joke….again, ask me how I know!
That should say “REHOMING”
Black jacks face in the photos from before vs his face right now... WOW
@@Firewerwolve Yes!!! Thanks for noticing! I’ve noticed the same thing, and it makes me so happy!
I will add that I did have trainers work with my horse while I got over my riding anxiety…however I have mixed feelings about that now. I wish I had more courage to ride my horse with the trainers rather than having them ride my horse. However I am happy to have had them assess him and his level of safety, that’s very important especially for us novices
Yeah, I really just want to know if he's safe.
The people who had him treated him badly,he was in pain ,he bucked kicked etc you have to gain his trust,he has to relearn how to be a trust worthy horse again start from the ground up.that means time on grooming ,leading ,trotting on lead rope walking him around through puddles bikes cars flappy tarps loud music etc. with or without saddle & bridle on..as soon as he trusts you I think things will get alot better for you & him.
Thank you! Yes, we're working through all that now. I've got him in training for his riding, and I'm working on my skills with him too on the ground.
Glad to hear the good news. From the very first horse I bought to the last (a prixe St. George champion) I always had my trainer ride my horses at least twice a week. I had either two or three lessons a week, giving my horse regular work 5 days a week. We used to joke that the trainer corrected whatever mistakes I made while riding, made sure he was being ridden correctly, the right muscles developed properly, etc. that was part of for the course for dressage horses and riders learning to ride properly and not just be a passenger on the horse. So we spent the money. The thing as I see it, you won’t know with Black Jack until you do have a good trainer train him what happens. There are no guarantees with horses. He is leading a pretty pleasant life right now and nothing is required of him in return. I don’t know if he is just responding with bucking to express he prefers not to work, which is likely. It might be that once he understands and speaks the same language he will also realize that for an hour a day his pleasant life will be interrupted. With a kind, sensitive but firm hand from a competent trainer this should be accomplished fairly quickly. But while you are learning to ride ( which, BTW takes years) all horses should be schooled regularly by a knowledgeable person. Strictly my personal opinion based on many years experience for what it’s worth.
Thank you for sharing! I sure wish I'd been able to get started on all this years ago!
I’m glad to hear that the vet has determined your boy is sound. Thank goodness for that:) I’m curious why you want to lunge him coming off a flexor tendon injury. Was that recommended? Lunging can be a great tool but I would be hesitant to do so rehabbing this type of injury for quite a while.
Actually, no one told me not to, so I didn't realize it might not be good for him. I have gotten some comments about this though, so I won't be doing it. This is why I so appreciate all y'all's comments!!!
Hi! I have been following your story and really enjoy your honesty and patience and good intentions. A bunch of thoughts I had watching this:
1. Just because he is now not lame in a way that a vet can detect does unfortunately not mean he is not is pain. Especially with the history of bucking at the previous place and the aggressive reaction to lunging. Could be e.g. the back, SI joint, hips.
2. If it really is not pain, he may also need to be restarted from the beginning like others already said. If you even remotely consider investing in this, attend the training sessions and have the trainer explain what they are doing and start from groundwork so you at least learn something that can be applied to your next horse, because the chance that Blackjack's body will handle being ridden for any longer period of time is like 0.5% based on what I've seen so far, and in addition there is the question of whether he will keep bucking at times which would be dangerous for you.
3. Seeing how he behaves when lunged was a good and valuable idea. But I wanted to make sure you know that lunging as a form of exercise is actually quite stressful on joints and tendons, I am sure none of the professionals I have ever worked with would recommend that as a regular form of exercise for a horse like Blackjack. It is highly likely to irritate his legs again.
4. Since he is now not completely lame anymore, the standard thing to do would be long long walks and maybe walking over some poles and stuff. As much straight lines instead of circles and tight turns as possible.
I think you are right that Blackjack seems like a very sweet guy, so the bad behaviour is either pain or missing training or both, snd to top that off it is possible that he has learned he can buck riders off because people kept riding him without addressing the bucking. Please be careful!
Thank you for such a thoughtful comment! First of all, I will be VERY careful.
Point 1 is great and makes total sense. For some reason, I hadn't actually thought of that.
Point 2 is also great. I'd love to watch the trainer work with him if I go that route. I will bring it up to him if we go forward with training. I also agree that the likelihood of him remaining sound is slim to none, especially with his terrible conformation. I've got to keep that in mind as I make decisions.
Point 3 I didn't know. Thank you for sharing that. I don't want to aggravate any issues he already has!
Point 4 I can definitely do!!
Again, thank you so much!
@@HorseTaleswithBlackJack I am rooting for you and Blackjack big time! I really hope he will at least stay sound enough to go on walks with you and practice groundwork and stuff, even if you end up needing a different horse for riding. :)
Ideally if you get a trainer to check him out, you can probably arrange it so that you will do the same exercises with Blackjack after the trainer does it first. (Not riding until he is safe for sure, but I am sure he could really benefit from basic groundwork exercises to check if he even knows all that a safe riding horse needs to know.)
@@Vaskitsa Thank you for rooting for us! ❤️
Sounds like you need a trainer like steve young! His channel steve young horsemanship is absolutely amazing and he takes difficult horses and assesses the problem from the herd mentality. Super happy hes healthy!❤❤❤
Love Steve Young!!
I think this gelding knows you’re a beginner. He is taking advantage. I had the same experience when I first started. I sadly decided to give the lease up. The farrier bought the horse for his wife, who is experienced and rides almost everyday. Both horse and rider found each other and are happy. Head and heart are sometimes saying two different things. I’m not there….what is your gut telling you?
That's very likely the case.
My gut tells me that he really just needs to be retired. Between his injury and his terrible conformation, it may be what’s best for him.
@@HorseTaleswithBlackJack Possibly.
Three cheers for Black Jack!!! Take the wins when you
get them.
I'm taking it!! :)
I think an experienced trainer needs to evaluate him. As a novice, a bucking horse, well that needs to be looked into.
And I hope she remembers the last time she chose a person from the barn.
Completely different barn now!
May I make a suggestion or two? Before you get a trainer to assess him, could you get a chiropractor to look at his body and see if anything needs tweaking.
The way you describe his behaviour while being lunged could mean that he has something wrong in his body which doesn’t warrant being lame. Of course it could simply be him not wanting to work and having a tantrum, but horses are rarely like that.
The other suggestion I’d like to suggest is to not lunge him but long line him, that way you can keep control of both his sides and it actually makes his bucking easier to work with, as you can ‘drive’ him forward in much the same way as you would when on him. You do not need a bridle on him but you could use a Monty Robert’s Dually on him (which is pretty much a bitless bridle) but you would need to introduce him to it.
I once worked with a bolter op with a dually, long lining, if he though he could just change direction, I could block him, then send him forward again, he learnt not to do it. After he accepted that he wasn’t getting away with his nonsense, he settled down to work and became a lovely pony for kids to enjoy
Thank you for those suggestions!! Honestly, I'm not sure I'm capable at this point of training him at all since I'm so novice. But what you're saying does sound like a good idea.
Also, he has a chiropractor coming out tomorrow morning! I'm VERY curious to see what she says, as I wouldn't be surprised if he's in pain somewhere.
Such good news. He definitely needs a companion, which you think of getting anyway.
Find a good riding horse that is trained in everyway. And hopefully will just spend money on buying the horse. And then you save money for blackjacks needs, which could be forever ongoing.
I think Black Jack may be a money pit, but that's okay. He deserves good care, and I will give it to him.
You HAVE to watch Ryan Rose and his training videos. He is the master in working with horses where their at. I would highly recommend watching his videos and subscribing to his channel. He is very approachable and can give you great advice as to where to buy your next horse from a reputable trainer.
Thank you for the suggestion! I love Ryan Rose.
There are *no* guarantees in the horse world. If I were you I would sell Black Jack while he is sound, continue with lessons and try to get as much horse related education as possible then think about buying a different horse later.
The best way to find a replacement horse is word of mouth. Ask more knowledgeable people for assistance.
I'm going to start asking around at the barn, starting with my instructor on Thursday. I'm not ready to buy yet, but folks can maybe keep their eyes out for me.
Blackjack is not for beginners! His past is irrelevant. His temperament is NOT for beginners. No amount of training can affect temperament. Stop giving people money to tell you what you want to hear! In addition to the fact that he does not have the mindset of a beginner safe horse, he has scared you. As a beginner you will not have the confidence necessary to get past that with him. I'm thrilled that he's currently sound but you need to find a suitable beginner safe mount for your sake AND Blackjack's. Suitability goes both ways he won't be any more comfortable with a tight nervous beginner on him than you will be worried about what might happen. Most horses are very good at daily care and ground handling. VERY few have the temperment and character to be good beginner mounts, that's why they are worth their weight in gold! NO amount of training can change a horse's temperment. I am a lifelong horsewoman with 30 plus years of matching horses and riders and am trying to prevent further heartache and I have nothing to gain, so you know it's genuine advice. Good luck in your search for a horse to ENJOY learning to ride on. Instead of putting your budget into further training for Blackjack and want to keep him you could find a CONFIDENT experienced rider looking for a horse to ride(there are lots of them) or you could just enjoy him from the ground.
At first, I felt this was a bit harsh, but then I put my pride aside and wanted to learn more about what you're saying. It matters to me. What in his mindset do you not see as good for a beginner? Is it the bucking? He bucked at the last barn when he was sick, and he bucked for us this last week at a lunge. I feel that both of those things might have justifications, but I also don't just want to think certain things because I love him.
To be honest, I am thinking that Jack may just be a horse that I take care of and love from the ground. But this is based on his conformation and previous injury (at least the one I know of). I thought his mindset was sound, so I'd love to learn more about why that might be a wrong assessment.
I hope you take this the way I intend. I'm trying to learn. Thanks!
What a nice horse....he is coming out of his shell....expect babysteps....you have time enough...no hurry.
Isn't he the sweetest???
Just let him be a horse, we don't need to ride them. I used to think all horses had to be rode, but now I know better.
I know he doesn't need it, but since it's always been my dream, I'd like to try to get him to that point. However, if it turns out to not be good for him, we'll switch gears and do liberty work and pasture time. :)
In human rehab, I know there is a bunch of crazy issues that can appear after someone had an an injury/inflammation, and it healed. One possibility is simpy expecting that some movement will hurt, even if it doesn't anymore, thus making it very difficult for the person to start doing it again (can be so bad they might require drugs to overcome). Another is the body actually physically "turning off" a particular muscle that can be somewhat substituted by othe muscle groups, resulting in suboptimal movement which in turn will lead back to pain. There is the possibility of muscles around it going into actual tension knots during specific movements. And there are more. Those are are things a (talking) human person will be AWARE of that they have, but will still be very challenging to overcome for them and their physiotherapist. So imagine what such things may be like for a horse, whom you can't explain to that such things are happening to him. Maybe explore some excercises, massage etc you can learn to do with your horse. You might be very successful, since you have built up great trust with him. This way you only need to hire the therapist occasionally, and can continue doing it yourself after the lesson.
Excellent point! I think the first thing will be having the chiropractor come out (his appointment is tomorrow) and hopefully she'll be able to identify his painful areas. I know the barn also has an excellent massage therapist, so I may look into that as well.
Show your vet this video. I hope you filmed the lungeing. He’s not standing like a sound horse. His back legs are not right. I wish y’all the best.
He's seriously cowhocked in the back. He actually looks much better when he moves than when he stands.
Have they checked for kissing spine?
We have not. Yet. Who knows what's coming down the road!
YAY!
Woot!!
So happy to hear Black Jack is sound!
The lunging sounds worrying. Like you said, you don't know his back story but you can say he wasn't lunged properly.
You said the vet lunged him? Is the vet male and the trainer female?
He may have had bad experiences with a female lunging him.
Try a male trainer with him, then a female one and see if there is a difference.
An assessment is vital. A bit of light exercise with walker (when the temperature is cooler am or pm) is good as well. Well done for the sheath cleaning as well 😊
The vet was male and my instructor is female.
I was so happy we were able to get the whole sheath ordeal out of the way! And he was such a good boy. He'd look back at us every now and again like he was wonder what we were doing down there. But he didn't care one bit. Sweet guy.
Sorry, I left off that it’s great to see that black jacket was not lame. It’s almost a miracle.
I feel like it's a miracle too!
@@HorseTaleswithBlackJack You don't know what you're doing. You're going to end up hurt or dead. Flexor tendon problems often heal; not a miracle. Your horse now has behavioral problems. It is going to cost you thousands of dollars to correct this horse. IF you decide to spend such money, send him to a REAL trainer. Tim Anderson Horse Training in Mississippi is the best. (NOT Clinton Anderson, please!) Tim A. has a YT channel. Learn NOT to thoroughly groom your horse before a ride, and much more. Do NOT attempt to ride that horse!!!!
Dawn, Kudos to you for working this situation as you are. Black Jack, as mentioned in a previous comment from me, looks a lot lot better in the back end, as far as how he stands…not real wide and really far under him as he was a month or two ago so that is good… I know early on you mentioned his lower lip droop and I think I’d mentioned that perhaps that could be nerve damage, but I couldn’t help but look at the way he was chewing his hay at about the 7:20 mark. I couldn’t tell if he just wasn’t keen on the hay or if his mouth was hurting him and sometimes when the animals hurt, regardless of where it is…what part of their body, they can act out so rely on your trainer and the other trainers at the barn to assess him and determine what they think is going on with him. Just because he’s bucking and behaving inappropriately with you doesn’t necessarily mean that he’s just being a brat, he could be in pain and then again he could just be recognizing that you’re novice and be behaving like that, but the trainers should be able to read his body language and be able to tell if he’s behaving that way because he’s just trying to take advantage of you or because he’s hurting or for another reason. They will look at what his ears are doing and the expression in his eyes and whether his muscles are tense in his body or not, is his tail swishing or up… they should be able to read his body….really pretty fast after seeing him move out in different gates, turning and backing up…. You may start to notice if there are consistencies in when he acts up…is it when you ask him to switch directions on the lunge line or when you ask him to back up or what? Look for consistencies in his behavior when he’s acting out…. at this point, I agree with your decision to have the trainers at your barn. take a look at him for that to be your next step and from there decide what your next plan of action is going to be.
Lastly, thank you for caring about Black Jack. When I see you brush him and bathe him. I just don’t see any signs that he’s got a mean bone in his body, but that doesn’t mean anything, I’m just saying from reading his body language, especially the last month, he seems to be much happier and night and day as far as how he moved before and how he moves now… he use to look like he was in pain all over…just taking a step or two…his whole body…and the expression in his eyes was sad but now he looks pretty darn good so you’re obviously heading in the right direction with him. Im sure Black Jack is appreciative to have you as an owner, and to be able to be outside of a stall after being stalled for months, that has got a really wear on a horse’s brain and body…when I think of how much better my arthritic joints feel when I’m out moving, the thought of him just being stalled, and not being able to move his body has got to wear on his body and then nerves and vice versa. It sounds like when he was at the old barn, he didn’t get training or anything either and was just kept in his stall for months so he may now be trying to see what he can get away with…especially with you because you are new to this…. I think you’re doing all the right things and am anxious to hear what the trainers at the new barn think about him. Continue to hang in there, sending you support from afar.
I am glad for you that his lameness is better. I am furious with the people who sold you, a novice, a horse that is clearly not a horse a beginner should have to worry about and be stuck with. They are unscrupulous and give the horse world a bad name. And they benefitted from this crooked behavior.
I am angry for you. This same kind of thing was my experience many years ago. My grandpa bought a horse for me. He knew very little about horses, and I never saw the horse until after the purchase. Turns out she was drugged to the gills, and when the drug wore off we had a very lame horse that wasn't going to get better. I was a kid. Somehow my grandpa made them come and take their lame horse back. What I learned from it was buys must be contingent on passing a vet check. It infuriates me to see people taken advantage of. And a horse treated like that. She couldn't feel the pain of her lameness.
I think you're smart to get a couple of professional opinions on the liklihood of him becoming a good horse for you. I wish you luck.
Thanks, and yeah, people like this suck. I'm just so glad that Black Jack is moving forward and is feeling better. Good for your grandpa for making them take the horse back!!
In horse years, Black Jack is like a 50 year old person who has been on bed rest. You’re bringing him back into work. Lunging is hard work for a horse. I would say 10 minutes total time on the lunge was enough for his out of work muscles. The trainer probably over did it and Black Jack was trying to tell her that.
Do fun stuff. Go for walks. Let him have a horse friend. Think like a horse. He’s stuck in that prison of a stable! Get him a ball. I would say you both need some fun. Take him on a trail ride, leading him. In horse terms I would say he is depressed.
We lunged him for about 20 minutes, but a lot of that was spent with him standing as she and I talked through technique. We were trying hard not to overtax him, especially with his lameness issues. He actually bucked in the beginning of the lunging.
I don't want you to think that he's stuck in his stall all the time. Due to the heat, the horses are stalled during the day right now and he has a fan blowing directly on him. They're in the pasture all night, and he has friends out there.
As for toys, I really think he might like a rubber chicken! He loves exploring with this mouth. :)
@@HorseTaleswithBlackJack thanks for your reply. I hadn’t seen him with any friends (I haven’t seen all your videos) so it’s good to hear he can be a horse some of the time. We had a horse here named Jack, one of the few I didn’t start. And he knew when he needed to be steady and when I wanted a more exciting ride he gave me one.
I’d get a few different riders to go out with you. You might find a someone experienced glad of a free ride - choose older and sensible. You walk with them on a trail ride and see how he is. Watch for young confident riders with ‘hot’ bottoms. He might be bouncier with them. On a ride, when he has been mellow, hop on and get your person to lead you until you feel confident. Watch for him to speed up on the way back to the barn. Best wishes from rainy cool Wales.
@@HorseTaleswithBlackJack love the idea of a chicken and glad to hear he bucked at the beginning of the session. Each horse has a range of behaviour, I see it here with my 85 year old Dad going out driving. ‘Tubs’ is mellow and quiet but take him on a drive with other horses and he wakes up and is a lot more animated. This works to our advantage most of the time because kind horses will moderate their behaviour to your experience and/or mood.
Bucking and resisting lunging, he might be searching for balance. Glad to hear he is sound.
Interesting! I hadn't thought about his balance. I'm willing to put money on him not being balanced.
His halter is tight...either go up a size or loosen it a bit. It's going to cause hair loss and potential sores down the line.
Congratulations.
Thank you!
He's a very good looking boy.
Why are you wanting to lunge him? I know he's been out of work for a while but lunging puts quite a bit of strain on various parts that he hasn't been using, it can also get them fitter so do you really want him fitter before you ride him again? At his age he would probably be ok to gently just start riding out, with a buddy if possible for your safety. Get to know each other slowly under saddle before asking him to work. He's more likely done all that in the past and could possibly have gone sour from doing lots of school work. Just a thought and how I would go, 60 plus years of riding, teaching, backing and restarting.
Good luck with him, he will be worth it x
Honestly, I was hoping to connect with him more on the ground AND get him a little bit more fit, since we can all see that he's flabby and a bit on the heavy side. Once we determine that he's safe, I do plan on easy rides. I'm just going to take it a bit slow. Thank you for your comment! I love all view points!!
I'm relieved for you that he is sound, let the trainer or a friend who is a good rider with training skills work on him for a while and see what happens. Some people would work on him for free, especially having someone "re-start him" taking things slowly with groundwork, lunging and ground driving (while also being firm) might be good then some progress might be made without risking letting some friend on his back. If the bucking issue is similar when lunging or riding, it could be able to be worked through and figure out what makes him tick with lunging and be safer when later beginning to ride.
Thank you for your comment. I wish I could find someone free, but I do at least trust the trainers at my barn to work with him.
Yay!!!!
Yes!! :)
Is it possible to leave BJ in a small paddock 24/7 with good fencing ,instead of having him in a stall ?
Good idea!
He’s actually in a stall/pasture turnout situation. It’s crazy hot here right now, so he’s in during the day with a fan and out all night in a large pasture.
@@HorseTaleswithBlackJack Are there no trees in the paddocks ?
Start fresh. He maybe acting out from past trauma memory. Talking from personal experience with a young severely injured filly. Once she was in the clear and with a significant time off we started her again a yr later with lunging, huge mistake. She was explosive, very resistant, rearing lasing out etc. Night and day personality. We went back to the very basics. A lot of in hand ground work for about 5- 10 mins everytime she was handled. Too much to explain but check out Steve youngs horsemanship you tube video from England. We use the same methods. Remember the 3 T's Training. Takes. Time. ❤
I love the Steve Young videos (even though I have to turn on the cc text when I watch them! lol).
I wish you nothing but the best for both your futures. Also just throwing it out there. look into equine therapy, I'm using it now and have noticed a significant change (mentally and physically)along with our training program. PEMF, ( magna wave) red light therapy also the occasional chiropractic adjustments if needed. It's a spa day for them 😊
@@diane9071 Thank you! I actually had a chiropractor treat Black Jack earlier this week. The video is coming later today!
Have you ever heard of Ryan Rose? He is excellent, and helped build my confidence after not having a horse for 10 years. He has youtube videos and is also on Patreon. I have learned a lot from him, and simple skills that I had forgotten about.
I was actually subscribed to Ryan's Patreon channel before Black Jack went lame. I need to resubscribe to that. So much helpful information there.
Look up Ryan Rose! Good luck!
Love Ryan Rose!!
I thought he had a very strange stance with his back legs. I've actually never seen it like that before. His right hind turns out. Maybe he's always had conformation issues putting pressure on areas, tendons etc. Just something to consider when looking at future expenditure.
Oh, he's a mess in the back for sure. He's cowhocked on both back legs and toed in on the front. I knew this from the PPE, but I didn't realize how much it could affect him into the future. Lesson learned. But also another thought I need to consider as I decide how much money I want to put into any training.
My vet said sound not in work can be different then sound underwork so take it nice and slow! No rocks in the samd! I go hand remote them 🤣 I’m happy he’s not lame for ya!! Wahoo!! Ya got this!
He knows your a beginner, find some one who's a really good rider and needs a horse to rider,explain what he does, and get your trainers to assess their riding skills and if they are ok let them ride him for a bit ,it my be his just being grumpy because of lack of exercise.
That's what I'm hoping too! Or he might even be in pain from something else. I've got a chiropractor coming out to work on him tomorrow. Hopefully she can help determine if he's hurting anywhere else.