Apparently Angron was named after the landlord of the local pub they drank in while coming up with the concept of 40k. His name was Ron and he was always shouting and bashing things so they called him angry Ron.
I grew up in Nottingham, closest GW being Warhammer World. As a throne city kids, we knew the legend of ‘Angry Ron’ who was a grumpy bouncer known around the city in the 80s/90s. Apparently, that’s where Angron derives his name.
Early GW used a lot of bri'ish nerd culture, but without the Internet it was a lot more local. They are connected with other nerds and gamers through fanzines and magazines.
Also Magnus is totally Odin, and I've alwas felt that there's strong nordic connection there. Magnus, while latin name, is pretty popular name in Scandinavian countries, and Magnus sacrificed his eye for knowledge/power, which is pretty dang Odin. Maybe Leman was annoyed that Magnus was coming on his turf.
Ah, should have mentioned that. TBH, didn't know how far I should go with some of them, you could go into Cthonic spaces, Odin's Eye, the Eye of Horus, Eyes of Aversion, all this stuff. BUT THATS WHAT MORE VIDEOS ARE FOR!
Also funnily enough in the tale of Ragnarok Odin is foretold to be killed by the son of Loki the wolf Fenrir wich to me makes the rivalry between magnus and leman kinda cool, and maybe is a sign of things to come maybe? 🤔
I think it's also interesting that Magnus is partially based on the WFB Emperor Magnus the Pious that founded the Colleges of Magic while Leman Russ and the Space Wolves are somewhat similar to Wulfrik, the Wulfen, and Norsca. So they do a role reversal in their "transition" from WFB to 40k.
Playing the XIX legion you know the Raven Raven joke is always a heartbeat away. At least the legion doesn’t lean into it as much as the Space Wolves do, wolfing everything and everyone.
"Lion still means lion, but forests are called johnsons?" I almost died laughing, especially due to way you said it. Fun fact about Rogal Dorn. "Rogal" (or diminutive "rogalik") means "croissant" in polish, though I highly doubt, it's a reference. 16:58 personally I would absolutely love more such videos.
Johnson -> slang for male anatomy -> also referred to as 'wood' -> loses its slang interstep and so Johnson = wood, therefore woods is a synonym of forest! Still a better entomology than land raider and land speeder....
@@XCRunningMan95 land raider being named after a dude named Land was deliberately made as a joke though, rogue trader did not take itself seriously and was poking fun of its own tendency to name vehicles like the leman russ after fictional dudes. Astartes being named after a scientist called Astarte is not a joke though. Its just dumb
FUL in Swedish means UGLY and GRIM in danish means UGLY, so I think it would be funny if the name FULGRIM was a amalgamation between those two words. Especially since he’s known for being a beautiful Primark 😅
Another reference about Fulgrim, the purple color of his legion´s armor and the purple dye of the ancient Phoenicians: The color was called also : "Imperial or Royal Purple" and was so expensive, that only the emperors of Rome and later the Byzantine Empire & the members of their imperial courts could afford to dye their clothes with it. It was made from a very rare species of sea snail, found in the Mediterrenean Sea. Makes sense that the "Emperor´s Children" are wearing "imperial purple" as their colors.
In regard to Horus Lupercal: you mentioned the wolf's cave and the link to Romulus and Remus. What you didn't mention, however, is that Romulus slew his brother Remus in a fit of rage, which is fitting for the Great Heretic.
Also the most famous celebration of the Lupercalia was the one where Marc Antony offered a crown to Caesar. Brutus thought this meant Caesar wanted to be king, so he joined the conspiracy to murder him. All of which ended up with Augustus becoming emperor, which parallels the Horus Heresy creating the future that he was trying to prevent.
One more interesting bit about the Alpha Legion. In WWII, the British and Americans decided early on that they wanted the D-Day invasion to hit the Germans as a surprise. The man they relied on to accomplish this was Juan Garcia, a Spanish double-agent who went by the codename Garbo. Garbo did such a thorough job misleading and confusing the Nazi command that even after soldiers were setting up bases on the beaches of Normandy, some German generals still thought the "real" invasion was about to arrive as far away as Calais. Garbo's team of spies went by the codename "The Twenty Committee." The inside joke here is that 20 in roman numerals is XX, or in other words, "double cross." The Alpha Legion are Legion XX. They're double-crossers.
The two scientists who first developed Ultramarine synthetic pigment were called Jean-Baptiste Guimet and Christian Gmelin. It’s very possible that GW put their names together as the founder of the Ultramarine legion
In relation to Konrad Cruze, there’s a line in Heart of Darkness that goes “Serve him right! Transgression-punishment- bang! Pitiless, pitiless! That’s the only way!” Sounds like Night Haunter’s philosophy to me 😂
You know, the Dark Angels always bugged me. As you pointed out, every loyalist legion had traitor elements; the Dark Angels tying themselves into knots about hiding their 'shame' always felt weird and silly. Knowing more about Lionel Jonson's really quite tragic self-loathing, and how that ties in thematically, genuinely makes me find the legion/chapter more interesting. Great video.
Their mostly unfounded paranoia and shame is definitely a big part of the appeal. It does go a bit deeper though, deeling with their own traitors kept the DA from helping out at the siege of terra, leaving them partially to blame for what happened (Big E dieing), or at least thats how they see it from their perspective. The rest of the imperium wouldnt be too happy if they found out about this, but there wouldnt be any real consequences besides the DAs shame being known to everyone. They cant have that, especially after ten thousand years of covering it up. In fact, the crimes theyve committed to achieve this far outweigh the original "sin"; a la 'silencing' inquisitors and anyone else who finds out the truth. As a closeted gay dude this is all painfully relatable
Aurelian was also the name of the Roman emperor from 270-275 ad who, aside from being a complete badass (unlike Lorgar) established a new mono theistic religion as the primary religion of Rome during his reign. That religion worshipped Sol Invictus, the invincible sun, a warrior god who brought light to the world through warfare and also is argued to have paved the way for Christianity, the final religion of Rome, to be accepted as monotheism wasn't really a thing in Rome prior to Aurelian's reign. There is a LOT to unpack there in terms of the similarities with Lorgar.
Yeah, there's even more to unpack! Sadly, I think Ian missed the more obvious meaning of the reference to "logos". Logos is best known today for its use in John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and Word was God," and so on. John 1 was written in ancient Greek, so the original word for "word" in the passage was "logos", which also meant "law". There have been thousands and thousands of pages written about this passage and the meaning of the word "logos" within it. For instance, Biblical scholars generally agree that in the passage "Logos" refers directly to Jesus - Jesus IS the Word. Put simply, the point of the passage is that Jesus is bringing a new word/truth/law to the people, and the metaphorical use of the word "logos" (and its surprisingly wide set of meanings even before this passage was written) tells you a lot about the relationship between concepts like "law", "writing", "bringing new truths to people", "reason", etc. But for the purposes of the video, that was the reference the name "Lorgar" was about: it makes a parallel between two sons of a godlike being who bring a new set of rules (law) to his father's people by writing a book (or causing a new book to be written). One was the Bible and the other was the Imperial Truth.
Unlike Lorgar? What's more badass than forcing a god to save his brother, Orchestrating an entire rebellion with non the wiser or that he escaped it with his legion almost intact?
ooooh I can expand on Perturabo a little more! Crowley gained the moniker of Perdurabo as a member of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, an organisation which operated out of 36 Blythe Road, in West London. I have little doubt that the founders of Games Workshop would be aware of this, given that the company was founded out of a flat at 15 Bolingbroke Road, an 8 minute walk to the north, in Shepards Bush (through some very lovely terraced streets.). Why is this relevant? Well, there’s a big exhibition centre literally around the corner from the original headquarters of the HOotGD. Kensington Olympia.
@@te9591 they kicked him out (quite literally according to some accounts) for his predatory tendencies. This apparently lead to Crowley and W.B Yeats (the man who did the kicking) directing their magical forces at one another for some time afterwards.
While the name Angron is an obvious play on 'Anger', it is also possible that his name is also derived from the Greek word Agrion, which translates to 'Wild', or even Agron, the Gallic word for 'Slaughter'. Perfectly fitting terms for Angron and especially his overall disposition.
The most important parallel between lorgar and Urizen is that Urizen is almost this tragic figure for creating the "original sin" of life in a physical plane. He is then left to helplessly watch his kingdom play out into its inevitable destruction trapping him in the Mortal plane, unable to stop it from falling apart. At least that's my very basic, sm0l brain understanding of it anyway, and seems to basically mirror lorgars story to some extent. Also Urizen and the book he comes from serves as Blakes criticism against the dogmatism of religion.
Interesting fact about Lorgar. His other name, Aurelian, is a reference to a Roman emperor of the same name who proliferated the cult of Sol/Sun, or Sol Invictus as he was styled in later days of the Empire. Now I don't think its a stretch to connect the Emperor in 40k with this diety since in the book Saturnine of the Siege of Terra series he was described by Erda as having many names throughout the history, one of those being Mithras (another Perso-Roman diety which was closely associated and integrated to some extent with the worship of Sol). Hence, Lorgar resembles his real life counterpart in that he was pious, try to deify the Emperor or the Sun and make a cult around him, plus the whole Lectitio Diviniatus thing. Some may disagree with these paralels but I see what writers intended when they gave Lorgar this name. Plus Aurelian means golden so another reference to the Big E?
Also for Sanguinius the word 'sanguinary': causing bloodshed. I guess his name is a play on both sanguine and sanguinary given the duality of his character. Good natured / capable of tremendous violence.
Also, of course the connection to the Holy Grail that held the Blood of Christ and then Communion of drinking of Christ's blood. Like Jesus, Sanguinios is the "holy son" that gave his life to save the Imperium. The Black Rage would then be similar to Stigmata, but that's more of a stretch.
Zoe: You sanguine about the kind of reception we’re apt to receive on an Alliance ship? Mal: Absolutely. What’s sanguine mean? Zoe: Sanguine. Hopeful. Plus-point of interest-it also means bloody. Mal: Well that pretty much covers all the options, don’t it.
Ferrus Manus being "The Gorgon" could also be a reference to the classic D&D monster (the bull with metallic skin and breath attack). (Which a quick googling tells me may have been inspired by Edward Topsell's 1607 book 'The Historie of Foure-Footed Beastes'.)
Ferrus Manus in Latin means Iron Hand, his homeworld was Medusa, and he was based on the greek mythical snake-head sisters "The Gorgons", his decapitation was based on the Myth about Medusa-one of the gorgons sisters who got beheaded by the hero Perseus
Here's a little personnal theory with Magnus the Red. His real world reference is Odin. Magnus is a somewhat popular name in Scandinavia after it was introduced there in reference to Charlemagne, Carolus Magnus. The epithet "the Red" also is somewhat common in the sagas if you think about Eric the Red and one or two more i think. The Red usually was a reference to hair color which fits old Magnus lore. Plus, both Magnus and Odin are known for being powerful sorcerers, both giving an eye in exchange of the knowledge. I wouldn't be surprised if that was common theory, i just haven't looked around to see if other people thought the same. For Prospero being space Egypt, it works well with the fact that it ended up burning with all its knowledge, just like the Library of Alexandria.
Yes please! More of this. It’s fun to see the inspiration of 40K lore. It really goes to show that, despite the grim dark nature of the lore, so much is rooted in, sometimes, tongue and cheek references.
The “grim dark” developed over the years (decades?) But the original creators were a bunch of lads. Look at the Orks, “red ones go fasta”, “dakka” and the colours schemes they had.
@@Mugdorna It's early 80's nerd culture, the GW lads are watching Blade Runner and reading Judge Dredd in 2000AD and playing the new D&D, Traveller and Call of Cthulhu games. But it's also nerd culture without the internet, so they are relying on magazines and physical conventions a lot more. And a lot of purely local stuff, like metal bands who happened to be around the area.
Even the "grim dark" elements are ripe for tongue and cheek fun. It's an eternally failing fascist empire whose biggest threats are sex demons, green alien football fans, and undead robot skeletons.
@@samb.8134 This dude (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_VII_of_Constantinople) might want to have a word with you, and "John was renowned for his learning (hence the nickname Grammatikos), and for his persuasive rhetoric [...] " would fit the bill for the 30k character as well.
Ye was about to suggest this. Hell, I'd love to see a series like Ian did for Horus Heresy and each Legion done for the famous regiments of the Imperial Guard.
Fun fact, Lupa is not only the word for she-wolf, but also Latin slang for a prostitute. So, purely linguistically, an alternate interpretation of the story is that some random lady of the night found two babies by the Tiber and brought them up As for Korax, his name is not just scientific for raven, but also just the Latin (Corvus) and Ancient Greek (κοράξ) words for raven. His name is literally Raven Raven of the Raven Guard
Lorgar- the Logos is the "word". He is the Word Bearer, head of the legion, "the Imperial Heralds". It isn't ironic, it's a direct metaphor. Lion El' Jonson- Lion son of the Forest. Great job referencing the 2nd and 3rd layers with Lionel Johnson. Jagatai Khan, soon to "the Great Khan" (Genghis/Emperor). Great parallel. Perturabo- Alistair Crawley was also the founder of his own Luciferian Church, the Gnostic Catholic Church, which is dedicated to the finding of secret, occult, spells (like Perturabo in his becoming a daemon primarch) and sex magic. Kind of disturbing really. Excellent video!
Some additions: - The Dark Angels & Thousand Sons: especially relevant to the recent return of the Lion, and his ‘forestwalking ability’, is the core of Shakespeare’s ‘The Tempest’, in which they tell the story of the Wizard Prospero (yup) who - after an assassination attempt by his brother (Russ) - flees to a very small island (hello new planet of the 1k sons). There he learns magic and uses his wizard-skills to manipulate the people that live there. On the island he is the master of Caliban (yes) and Ariel. Here comes the cool part: he finds Caliban as a sort of ‘wild child’ in the forest. (origin story of the Lion). Caliban also is a descendant of the witch Sycorax (the Emperor), who happens to be the rightful ruler of the island (again: the Emperor) where ‘The Tempest’ (ruinstorm/warp) takes place. The most interesting part for the new novel is that Shakespeare names Caliban as the ‘only one who grows in the storm’, eventually becoming literate, yet still disagreeing with his fate on a very instinctive and primal level. (so: he is the only one who actually is able to benefit from the warp, without it turning on him, because his 'wild child-origin' makes him the opposite of the wizard, who can be tempted by knowledge). Lastly: the wizard Prospero’s favorite saying is: ‘I’ll be wiser hereafter’ - which is a direct connection to the 1k sons and Magnus’ obsession with acquiring knowledge, as well as the ‘Changer of Ways’. In turn, the character of Prospero is rumored to have been inspired by John Dee, astronomer / astrologian and wizard to the court of Elizabeth the Ist of England. (similar to the role of Magnus towards the Emperor). - For Rogal Dorn, have a look at: Major General Earl van Dorn (historic commander, confederate cavalry). What gave it away? Well, this ‘Dorn’ was shot in his wrist (of all places) by Native Americans and was subsequently given command of the garrisons of two forts below New Orleans on the Missisipi River, as well as the Departement of Texas to capture and secure resources that belonged to the US Army. - The story of (Egyptian) Horus actually features a pretty strange part that is quite similar to the ‘geneseed’ used for the Space Marines. Also: have a look at both Horus’s, because you have ‘Horus the younger’ and ‘the elder’, who are quite different characters. (similar to Horus’s change). - Lorgar: about Urizen is written ‘ He believes himself holy (yep) and he sets about establishing various sins in a book (hello book of Lorgar) of brass (yep) that serves as a combination of various laws as discovered by Newton, given to Moses, and the general concept of deism, which force uniformity upon mankind. The rest of the Eternals in turn become indignant at Urizen turning against eternity, and they instill these essences of sin within Urizen's creation. (…) also: Urizen features the figure of ‘Orc’, a fallen entity. About which: Symbolically, the Orc cycle describes how Urizen and Orc are part of one unified whole with Urizen representing the destructive and older essence while Orc is the young and creative essence.’ (essentially: order and chaos)
for Mortarion, -arion in ancient greek is a diminutive suffix. I had always thought that beside the obvious images of death the the reaper they were also throwing a wrench in it or an easter egg by naming him "little death" which is a reference to weakening of consciousness and losing a part of yourself but at the same time a reference to post-orgasm sensation, which idk, nurglites might get from disease ?
I've been into Warhammer and its lore since the late 90s when I got my first box set as a kid and I actually never even thought about the Primarch naming conventions/origins. Several of them are pretty easy connections to make, but I had no idea about the Dark Angel poem or the origin of the Urizen title. Thank you for this Warhammer-adjacent history lesson, really enjoyed it.
I have this idea that Magnus might be a reference to Hermes Trismegistus, the Greek-Egyptian god of magic (Egyption because Trismesgistos was a byname of Thoth). Trismegistus means "thrice great" - so there is an element of "Magnus" from an egyptian source, if you squint your eyes a bit.
@@HydraulicDesign You can tell the Rogue Trader designers were pen and paper role players because those are the types of names you'd come up with in your D&D group as you descend into Monty Python references while your GM tries to get the campaign back on track.
I sort of agree, but I don't think when this was first written they imagined 40K would become what it is today, so it probably wasn't as important to have as detailed fluff as we do now. It's all been haphazardly cobbled together over the years
Robot Gorillaman does seem to fit him pretty well, actually, as a reference to Optimus Primal. A direct descendant from Optimus Prime, the greatest of all his people's leaders, tasked with preventing the slide into destruction of an entire galaxy. Now I view the Emperor as more of a cross between incompetent Shockwave and Megatron myself, but that doesn't work as well with the name.
Be interesting to see your take on Eldar along these lines. The big Craftworlds are definitely named after pagan festivals - Samhain, Beltane, etc. - so there's probably more interesting stuff lurking waiting to be uncovered, especially with their heavy leaning towards 70s science-fantasy space elves.
Dont mean to offend anyone here but you and bricky are genuinely the only 40k content creators i can watch. You guys are superb and for someone who has only been into 40k for a month ive learned too much from yall! Keep it up!
As someone who knew about half of these already (either from 40k or already knowing about the name) and having presumably the same education/ cultural frame of reference/interests as the people writing 40k XD This was deeply satisfying to me, thank you
I had heard somewhere that lion means other things instead of just lion. One that I heard was lion can translates to son so lion el’jonsons name would translate to “son of the forest”
I really like the parts where you say when particular name or concept appeared in the lore for the frst time. Usually wikis show just the current canon. Considering how some of the names show to be more thought out than other, it would be interesting to check when each of them appeared.
I heard somewhere that Angron name has a little story. The writers apparently frequented a bar with a doorman named Jon. They found home kinda short tempered and so referred to him as "Angry Jon". They felt kind of bad for representing a person they knew in the real world as a pretty evil functional character but they where beyond the point of no return on the characters and their names
I thought this was going to be about the in-lore reason they got their names, but this is so much better! I am especially thrown by Lion El Johnson; it makes some serious subtext to the Lion's relationship with Luthor I now wonder might have been more intentional. I would definitely love to see more videos like this! Great work!
@@lilpretzel5629 For like all of a year or two, I think. Primarchs age very fast, and the Lion was noted as being quick to mature. Luthor's scenes portray the relationship as one of very close brothers more than anything. I doubt there is any intended romance in the text anyway. It just makes me wonder about the fact the only Primarch whose story is deeply tied to one particular mortal also happens to be based on a gay man allegory.
That's quite unlikely. The real theme of the Dark Angel is not homosexuality by itself, but hypocrisy, being driven by it and be consumed by it, the burning secrets that go against what you preach around. Besides, we have a whole novel on Luther and this was definetely not mentioned once. I wonder, did Primarchs have primal urges or romantic ones? We have bonds of family displayed by all of them, or almost everyone. But romantic relationships? That's actually a pretty interesting topic.
Wow I'm truly amazed,, as you pointed out, the distance in depth between Lion El and Angron. Im all for it, Love an arena of art where both silly and deep coexist, It feels welcoming imo. Also Really great video, Im thankful for your channel and work friend!
I would love a video like this about some of the more well-know IG regiments. It could probably double as a bit of an introduction to each in-universe too, two vids with one stone!
Maybe Magnus the Red, is just "The Big Red Button", which can be pressed in an emergency. Might hint to him being able to reset the narrative re: golden throne etc
Small tidbit about salamanders (the real world ones, not the Space Marines) that I learned recently: The belief that they are immune to - or made from - fire stems from the fact, that they like to spend the winter months in damp, dark places to hibernate, essentially. The winter months are also where people used to warm their homes with fire... by burning logs... which were stored outside and were damp and dark due to getting wet and being stacked. So from time to time a poor little salamander would be woken up by their winter home going up in flames, scurry out of the fire in fear of their life and people would go "Oooh, see! Another one born from the flames. This year will be a good harvest..." or something along those lines.
I don't know if many (or any) of the Eldar names (Khaine, Eldanesh, Isha etc.) are based on real-world references, if so it would be great to see a video with a breakdown of them! Great video as always :)
Kurnous is named after the Celtic hunter god Cernunnos Khaine I'm pretty sure is named after the biblical Cain (son of Adam, who killed his brother Abel)
For Rogal Dorn, the inspiration seems to be from Scottish Gaelic rather than Irish. The Gaelic for fist is dòrn and the Gaelic for royal is rìoghail. Rìoghail Dòrn meaning Royal Fist seems to much to be a coincidence for the leader of the Imperial Fists.
"Someone had a deadline to hit". Brilliant. I honestly feel we 40k lore buffs should pause and recite this every time we find something dumb or nonsensical in the lore. Thank you Ian, for devising a simple mantra to reduce anger and confusion amongst 40k fans. I will be nominating you for a nobel prize in the field of reducing arguments in youtube comments sections. Great video as always
Love your content man. Too many Warhammer TH-camrs just regurgitating wiki pages or other videos. Love your perspective on the franchise lore that also takes it's real world development and history into account.
Dorn being simple, uncomplicated and almost unimpressive works as fridge brilliance in a way. I always figured Magnus came from "mage" or "magus", since hes a sorcerer. Magnus meaning "big sorcerer."
Man, watching this video gave me such a big nostalgia hit for my formative days learning about 40 back in the early aughts. We would sit and endlessly geek out on message boards over references in Primarch names and shit like the Star Child and what not. Anyways, one thing we kept mentioning about Fulgrim back then, was how the name is composed of two Scandi words for 'ugly': "Ful" (Swedish) and "Grim" more generally. It was kinda funny to imagine that the name of the prettiest and most vain Primarch was somehow intended to mean "Ugly-ugly" (even if that probably never was the intention).
My favorite fact about the irl Lionel Johnson comes from Alberto Manguel's "The Library at Night," "The English poet Lionel Johnson was so pressed for room [to store his book collection] that he devised shelves suspended from the ceiling like chandeliers."
Hats off to one of the more unique and interesting 40 K video on TH-cam. I find myself returning to this every so often to give it another listen through. Again excellent work.
Fun fact, back when there was games day in Birmingham, in the 90s I went to one and the designers where there doing autographs and answering questions, so I asked them, how did you decide which legions would be traitor? And I think it was jervis johnson, who said they rolled a D20 to decide which would be loyal/traitor, then later decided to scrub 2 for players to make their own
I always thought Fulgrim was maybe playing off the word ‘Fulcrum’ which is a point where something balances. I kind of like the idea of Fulgrim representing the beauty of something that is ‘perfectly balanced,’only for him to fall off the deep end.
I think it's interesting that the Space Wolves operate much like the Varangian Guard did for the Emperors of Constantinople, fearless, rambunctious, fiercely loyal, and terrifying shock troops of the Byzantine Armies. They'd often be used to execute orders both no one else would or could, tying into the Space Wolves being used as the Emperor's executioners so much as to wiping out one of the two lost legions and eventually destroying Prospero as well.
I never knew where the primarchs got there names from, I know Fantasy is set early in the 17th century of the real world there’s lots of little things going on that are influenced by real world events. Interesting
Thank you! I didn't need another reason to love hobby fluff, but now it turns out there are layers on layers that only multiplied my appreciation for decades of lore. This is quickly becoming the premiere lore channel on TH-cam. Keep it up, and thank you as always!
I just wanted to tell Ian "thank you" for being concise, interesting and down to earth in your descriptions of the universe and facets of Warhammer 40k. Longtime fame of the setting (although sadly never played the tabletop game), I had lost touch with this years ago. I rediscovered it a few years ago with the video game Inquisitor, but that felt more like a Diablo clone than I had hoped for. When I found your channel I subscribed after the 2nd video I watched! This was directly due to your friendly, detailed discussions showing both the good and not so good sides of the universe as well as your deep dives into the lore. Watching all the lore videos will be a great way to start my New Year!
Hmmm… The Phoenician sailor in TS Eliot’s the wasteland ‘who was once handsome and tall as you?’ Might seem a reach but it was the intro quote for Consider phlebas by Iain M Banks.
Consider Phlebas came out in 1987 when Rogue Trader first came out, and I have zero doubt Rick Priestly et al. were reading that wild new sci-fi at the time. They were well-read guys anyway, I don't think it's a reach.
I always hoped that Angron was in part a reference to an angon - the Germanic javelin of the early medieval period, combined with angry Of course being from Notts myself there was always the legend that it came from a local Angry Ron There’s also the Castle Rock connection too for the Dark Angels
I think Corvus Corax is also a reference to Matheus Corvinus, who created the hungarian Black Army. Also, there's a famous iron hand prosthetic used by Götz von Berlichingen, or Götz of the Iron Hand, from the XVII century. Regrettably, that Iron Hand symbol was used for the 17th SS Panzergrenadier Division Götz von Berlichingen, which probably inspired the logo and the black and silver color scheme.
I think you've hit on something that is really fundamental to 40k, the mixing of high and low, contrasts on every level, from the stratified feudal society and the wacky power levels to the mishmash of pulp fiction, ancient myth and 19th century literature references, to how terrible my old paint jobs look compared to my latest ones. 40k gives your brain a most pleasant feeling of aesthetic whiplash.
Roboute Guillimane's name may come from thinker *Robert Gilman* with his works on eco-villages and sustainable developpement, which we can see in the Realm of Ultramar. ;)
Robert ‘Gilman’ Allen Jackson: UN administrator and “master of logistics”. Coincidence? I think not!! (Does this mean Guilliman should actually have an Aussie accent? Majorkill is going love that 😂) en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Jackson_(UN_administrator)
The Primarch's names mostly give me the feeling that a group of inspired your people really just wanted to create something cool. Some are careful allusions, others simply follow the rule of cool. Today that would be seen as to gaudy but that's exactly how I like it.
Apparently Angron was named after the landlord of the local pub they drank in while coming up with the concept of 40k. His name was Ron and he was always shouting and bashing things so they called him angry Ron.
Came here to make sure this got posted 😊
My life is now complete.
I hope this is absolutely true!
This is hilarious. And also no way is this true, reads like a reddit meme.
Cool! Do you know were you learned it? Could be cool to find the source for it.
I grew up in Nottingham, closest GW being Warhammer World. As a throne city kids, we knew the legend of ‘Angry Ron’ who was a grumpy bouncer known around the city in the 80s/90s. Apparently, that’s where Angron derives his name.
Fantastic!
If this is true, it makes Angron's name so much more fun! I love it so much it makes me giggle.
Early GW used a lot of bri'ish nerd culture, but without the Internet it was a lot more local. They are connected with other nerds and gamers through fanzines and magazines.
Also Magnus is totally Odin, and I've alwas felt that there's strong nordic connection there. Magnus, while latin name, is pretty popular name in Scandinavian countries, and Magnus sacrificed his eye for knowledge/power, which is pretty dang Odin. Maybe Leman was annoyed that Magnus was coming on his turf.
Ah, should have mentioned that. TBH, didn't know how far I should go with some of them, you could go into Cthonic spaces, Odin's Eye, the Eye of Horus, Eyes of Aversion, all this stuff. BUT THATS WHAT MORE VIDEOS ARE FOR!
Also funnily enough in the tale of Ragnarok Odin is foretold to be killed by the son of Loki the wolf Fenrir wich to me makes the rivalry between magnus and leman kinda cool, and maybe is a sign of things to come maybe? 🤔
Sure Magnus is a reference to Magnus Magunsson, longtime host of Mastermind and therefore keeper of all knowledge...
Yours truly is usually referred to as the Raven or Raven god as well.
I think it's also interesting that Magnus is partially based on the WFB Emperor Magnus the Pious that founded the Colleges of Magic while Leman Russ and the Space Wolves are somewhat similar to Wulfrik, the Wulfen, and Norsca.
So they do a role reversal in their "transition" from WFB to 40k.
Playing the XIX legion you know the Raven Raven joke is always a heartbeat away. At least the legion doesn’t lean into it as much as the Space Wolves do, wolfing everything and everyone.
Compared to the Space Wolves now-a-days, even the Beaky helmets are subtle.
Wet leopard growl. Never forget.
@Grey Speight Oh god, Burning of Prospero flash backs intensifies.
It's like Moon Moon, but for birds.
They lean pretty hard into it.
"Lion still means lion, but forests are called johnsons?" I almost died laughing, especially due to way you said it.
Fun fact about Rogal Dorn. "Rogal" (or diminutive "rogalik") means "croissant" in polish, though I highly doubt, it's a reference.
16:58 personally I would absolutely love more such videos.
I'm guessing the name Rogal is kinda like Angron, take a word like regal and twist it a little and you got a silly space name.
Well I suppose they both "have wood".
Johnson -> slang for male anatomy -> also referred to as 'wood' -> loses its slang interstep and so Johnson = wood, therefore woods is a synonym of forest!
Still a better entomology than land raider and land speeder....
@@XCRunningMan95 land raider being named after a dude named Land was deliberately made as a joke though, rogue trader did not take itself seriously and was poking fun of its own tendency to name vehicles like the leman russ after fictional dudes.
Astartes being named after a scientist called Astarte is not a joke though. Its just dumb
I forget the whole Astartes line, that's probably the worst one lol, "I'll name my finest warriors after you to spite you"
FUL in Swedish means UGLY and GRIM in danish means UGLY, so I think it would be funny if the name FULGRIM was a amalgamation between those two words. Especially since he’s known for being a beautiful Primark 😅
UglyUgly the pretty boy would be hilariously on brand given some of the other names...
But he does turn into a snake
Another reference about Fulgrim, the purple color of his legion´s armor and the purple dye of the ancient Phoenicians:
The color was called also : "Imperial or Royal Purple" and was so expensive, that only the emperors of Rome and later the Byzantine Empire & the members of their imperial courts could afford to dye their clothes with it.
It was made from a very rare species of sea snail, found in the Mediterrenean Sea.
Makes sense that the "Emperor´s Children" are wearing "imperial purple" as their colors.
Exactly that, the Emperord children were recruted from lords houses. I was surprized he didn't mention this.
In regard to Horus Lupercal: you mentioned the wolf's cave and the link to Romulus and Remus. What you didn't mention, however, is that Romulus slew his brother Remus in a fit of rage, which is fitting for the Great Heretic.
Also the most famous celebration of the Lupercalia was the one where Marc Antony offered a crown to Caesar. Brutus thought this meant Caesar wanted to be king, so he joined the conspiracy to murder him. All of which ended up with Augustus becoming emperor, which parallels the Horus Heresy creating the future that he was trying to prevent.
Yep, great comments. I came here to post this stuff too and I’m glad you guys already took care of it
@Thule Magna
It’s a classic!
And Lupus was also Latin slang for a lady of negotiable virtue, so you could force a delightfully alliterative "Horus whore's son" out of that too.
One more interesting bit about the Alpha Legion. In WWII, the British and Americans decided early on that they wanted the D-Day invasion to hit the Germans as a surprise. The man they relied on to accomplish this was Juan Garcia, a Spanish double-agent who went by the codename Garbo. Garbo did such a thorough job misleading and confusing the Nazi command that even after soldiers were setting up bases on the beaches of Normandy, some German generals still thought the "real" invasion was about to arrive as far away as Calais. Garbo's team of spies went by the codename "The Twenty Committee."
The inside joke here is that 20 in roman numerals is XX, or in other words, "double cross." The Alpha Legion are Legion XX. They're double-crossers.
The two scientists who first developed Ultramarine synthetic pigment were called Jean-Baptiste Guimet and Christian Gmelin.
It’s very possible that GW put their names together as the founder of the Ultramarine legion
the original writer was presented with this information at a panel. he said no, he just made it up because it sounded kinda foreign
This makes sense
In relation to Konrad Cruze, there’s a line in Heart of Darkness that goes “Serve him right! Transgression-punishment- bang! Pitiless, pitiless! That’s the only way!” Sounds like Night Haunter’s philosophy to me 😂
I suppose “the Gorgon of Medusa” also works out as a name for a guy who gets beheaded
You know, the Dark Angels always bugged me. As you pointed out, every loyalist legion had traitor elements; the Dark Angels tying themselves into knots about hiding their 'shame' always felt weird and silly. Knowing more about Lionel Jonson's really quite tragic self-loathing, and how that ties in thematically, genuinely makes me find the legion/chapter more interesting. Great video.
Their mostly unfounded paranoia and shame is definitely a big part of the appeal.
It does go a bit deeper though, deeling with their own traitors kept the DA from helping out at the siege of terra, leaving them partially to blame for what happened (Big E dieing), or at least thats how they see it from their perspective.
The rest of the imperium wouldnt be too happy if they found out about this, but there wouldnt be any real consequences besides the DAs shame being known to everyone. They cant have that, especially after ten thousand years of covering it up. In fact, the crimes theyve committed to achieve this far outweigh the original "sin"; a la 'silencing' inquisitors and anyone else who finds out the truth.
As a closeted gay dude this is all painfully relatable
Aurelian was also the name of the Roman emperor from 270-275 ad who, aside from being a complete badass (unlike Lorgar) established a new mono theistic religion as the primary religion of Rome during his reign. That religion worshipped Sol Invictus, the invincible sun, a warrior god who brought light to the world through warfare and also is argued to have paved the way for Christianity, the final religion of Rome, to be accepted as monotheism wasn't really a thing in Rome prior to Aurelian's reign.
There is a LOT to unpack there in terms of the similarities with Lorgar.
Yeah, there's even more to unpack!
Sadly, I think Ian missed the more obvious meaning of the reference to "logos". Logos is best known today for its use in John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and Word was God," and so on. John 1 was written in ancient Greek, so the original word for "word" in the passage was "logos", which also meant "law". There have been thousands and thousands of pages written about this passage and the meaning of the word "logos" within it. For instance, Biblical scholars generally agree that in the passage "Logos" refers directly to Jesus - Jesus IS the Word. Put simply, the point of the passage is that Jesus is bringing a new word/truth/law to the people, and the metaphorical use of the word "logos" (and its surprisingly wide set of meanings even before this passage was written) tells you a lot about the relationship between concepts like "law", "writing", "bringing new truths to people", "reason", etc.
But for the purposes of the video, that was the reference the name "Lorgar" was about: it makes a parallel between two sons of a godlike being who bring a new set of rules (law) to his father's people by writing a book (or causing a new book to be written). One was the Bible and the other was the Imperial Truth.
Unlike Lorgar?
What's more badass than forcing a god to save his brother, Orchestrating an entire rebellion with non the wiser or that he escaped it with his legion almost intact?
Counterpoint: Lorgar is, in fact, a badass. You can't get shot, twice, by a titan-class plasma weapon, live, and not be so.
I would love to see what you can find on the names of the chaos gods. I had accidentally stumbled on Nergal, a Mesopotamian God of death and disease.
😮
It's also the stage name of the frontman of the Polish black metal band Behemoth :)
ooooh I can expand on Perturabo a little more! Crowley gained the moniker of Perdurabo as a member of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, an organisation which operated out of 36 Blythe Road, in West London. I have little doubt that the founders of Games Workshop would be aware of this, given that the company was founded out of a flat at 15 Bolingbroke Road, an 8 minute walk to the north, in Shepards Bush (through some very lovely terraced streets.). Why is this relevant? Well, there’s a big exhibition centre literally around the corner from the original headquarters of the HOotGD. Kensington Olympia.
Ah that’s interesting, I’m almost certain they would have been familiar with the Hermetic Order regardless too
I didn't know Crowley was in the golden dawn.
@@te9591 they kicked him out (quite literally according to some accounts) for his predatory tendencies. This apparently lead to Crowley and W.B Yeats (the man who did the kicking) directing their magical forces at one another for some time afterwards.
@@theheslops439 it's like Saruman vs. Gandalf.
@@te9591 only fake
While the name Angron is an obvious play on 'Anger', it is also possible that his name is also derived from the Greek word Agrion, which translates to 'Wild', or even Agron, the Gallic word for 'Slaughter'. Perfectly fitting terms for Angron and especially his overall disposition.
This was one of those subjects I'd always meant to look into but never gotten around to, you know? Great content, man, keep up the good work.
Thanks, will do!
The most important parallel between lorgar and Urizen is that Urizen is almost this tragic figure for creating the "original sin" of life in a physical plane. He is then left to helplessly watch his kingdom play out into its inevitable destruction trapping him in the Mortal plane, unable to stop it from falling apart. At least that's my very basic, sm0l brain understanding of it anyway, and seems to basically mirror lorgars story to some extent.
Also Urizen and the book he comes from serves as Blakes criticism against the dogmatism of religion.
Interesting fact about Lorgar. His other name, Aurelian, is a reference to a Roman emperor of the same name who proliferated the cult of Sol/Sun, or Sol Invictus as he was styled in later days of the Empire. Now I don't think its a stretch to connect the Emperor in 40k with this diety since in the book Saturnine of the Siege of Terra series he was described by Erda as having many names throughout the history, one of those being Mithras (another Perso-Roman diety which was closely associated and integrated to some extent with the worship of Sol). Hence, Lorgar resembles his real life counterpart in that he was pious, try to deify the Emperor or the Sun and make a cult around him, plus the whole Lectitio Diviniatus thing. Some may disagree with these paralels but I see what writers intended when they gave Lorgar this name. Plus Aurelian means golden so another reference to the Big E?
Also for Sanguinius the word 'sanguinary': causing bloodshed. I guess his name is a play on both sanguine and sanguinary given the duality of his character. Good natured / capable of tremendous violence.
Also, of course the connection to the Holy Grail that held the Blood of Christ and then Communion of drinking of Christ's blood. Like Jesus, Sanguinios is the "holy son" that gave his life to save the Imperium.
The Black Rage would then be similar to Stigmata, but that's more of a stretch.
Zoe: You sanguine about the kind of reception we’re apt to receive on an Alliance ship?
Mal: Absolutely. What’s sanguine mean?
Zoe: Sanguine. Hopeful. Plus-point of interest-it also means bloody.
Mal: Well that pretty much covers all the options, don’t it.
I guess also "Sanguine" - as in, accepting. Which is kind of how Sangy is about his fate
Ferrus Manus being "The Gorgon" could also be a reference to the classic D&D monster (the bull with metallic skin and breath attack).
(Which a quick googling tells me may have been inspired by Edward Topsell's 1607 book 'The Historie of Foure-Footed Beastes'.)
Ferrus Manus in Latin means Iron Hand, his homeworld was Medusa, and he was based on the greek mythical snake-head sisters "The Gorgons", his decapitation was based on the Myth about Medusa-one of the gorgons sisters who got beheaded by the hero Perseus
Also the Gorgons in Myth have hands and claws made of Iron
Here's a little personnal theory with Magnus the Red. His real world reference is Odin. Magnus is a somewhat popular name in Scandinavia after it was introduced there in reference to Charlemagne, Carolus Magnus. The epithet "the Red" also is somewhat common in the sagas if you think about Eric the Red and one or two more i think. The Red usually was a reference to hair color which fits old Magnus lore. Plus, both Magnus and Odin are known for being powerful sorcerers, both giving an eye in exchange of the knowledge. I wouldn't be surprised if that was common theory, i just haven't looked around to see if other people thought the same.
For Prospero being space Egypt, it works well with the fact that it ended up burning with all its knowledge, just like the Library of Alexandria.
Yes please! More of this. It’s fun to see the inspiration of 40K lore. It really goes to show that, despite the grim dark nature of the lore, so much is rooted in, sometimes, tongue and cheek references.
The “grim dark” developed over the years (decades?) But the original creators were a bunch of lads. Look at the Orks, “red ones go fasta”, “dakka” and the colours schemes they had.
@@Mugdorna It's early 80's nerd culture, the GW lads are watching Blade Runner and reading Judge Dredd in 2000AD and playing the new D&D, Traveller and Call of Cthulhu games. But it's also nerd culture without the internet, so they are relying on magazines and physical conventions a lot more. And a lot of purely local stuff, like metal bands who happened to be around the area.
@@SusCalvin I fully agree. I was only a couple of years behind those lads.
Even the "grim dark" elements are ripe for tongue and cheek fun. It's an eternally failing fascist empire whose biggest threats are sex demons, green alien football fans, and undead robot skeletons.
I have never wanted anything more than Arbitor Ian explaining the real world references of 40k lore. ❤
You gotta wonder if *Sanguinius,* *Perturabo* and *Alpharion* ever felt a bit sheepish introducing themselves alongside *Lionel, Conrad* and *Robert.*
Warhammer is what TV Tropes would call an "Aerith and Bob" universe.
Technically it's just Lion, but yes :P I snort a bit at every reference to "Lord El'Jonson"
and the two forgotten primarks, Kyle and Lyle.
@@lauriepenner350 Sometimes, somehow, managing to be both in the same name : John Grammaticus.
@@samb.8134 This dude (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_VII_of_Constantinople) might want to have a word with you, and "John was renowned for his learning (hence the nickname Grammatikos), and for his persuasive rhetoric [...] " would fit the bill for the 30k character as well.
I would love to see one of these on the inspirations of the famous Gaurd regiments.
Ye was about to suggest this. Hell, I'd love to see a series like Ian did for Horus Heresy and each Legion done for the famous regiments of the Imperial Guard.
Fun fact, Lupa is not only the word for she-wolf, but also Latin slang for a prostitute. So, purely linguistically, an alternate interpretation of the story is that some random lady of the night found two babies by the Tiber and brought them up
As for Korax, his name is not just scientific for raven, but also just the Latin (Corvus) and Ancient Greek (κοράξ) words for raven. His name is literally Raven Raven of the Raven Guard
Lorgar- the Logos is the "word". He is the Word Bearer, head of the legion, "the Imperial Heralds". It isn't ironic, it's a direct metaphor.
Lion El' Jonson- Lion son of the Forest. Great job referencing the 2nd and 3rd layers with Lionel Johnson.
Jagatai Khan, soon to "the Great Khan" (Genghis/Emperor). Great parallel.
Perturabo- Alistair Crawley was also the founder of his own Luciferian Church, the Gnostic Catholic Church, which is dedicated to the finding of secret, occult, spells (like Perturabo in his becoming a daemon primarch) and sex magic.
Kind of disturbing really.
Excellent video!
Some additions:
- The Dark Angels & Thousand Sons: especially relevant to the recent return of the Lion, and his ‘forestwalking ability’, is the core of Shakespeare’s ‘The Tempest’, in which they tell the story of the Wizard Prospero (yup) who - after an assassination attempt by his brother (Russ) - flees to a very small island (hello new planet of the 1k sons). There he learns magic and uses his wizard-skills to manipulate the people that live there. On the island he is the master of Caliban (yes) and Ariel. Here comes the cool part: he finds Caliban as a sort of ‘wild child’ in the forest. (origin story of the Lion). Caliban also is a descendant of the witch Sycorax (the Emperor), who happens to be the rightful ruler of the island (again: the Emperor) where ‘The Tempest’ (ruinstorm/warp) takes place. The most interesting part for the new novel is that Shakespeare names Caliban as the ‘only one who grows in the storm’, eventually becoming literate, yet still disagreeing with his fate on a very instinctive and primal level. (so: he is the only one who actually is able to benefit from the warp, without it turning on him, because his 'wild child-origin' makes him the opposite of the wizard, who can be tempted by knowledge). Lastly: the wizard Prospero’s favorite saying is: ‘I’ll be wiser hereafter’ - which is a direct connection to the 1k sons and Magnus’ obsession with acquiring knowledge, as well as the ‘Changer of Ways’.
In turn, the character of Prospero is rumored to have been inspired by John Dee, astronomer / astrologian and wizard to the court of Elizabeth the Ist of England. (similar to the role of Magnus towards the Emperor).
- For Rogal Dorn, have a look at: Major General Earl van Dorn (historic commander, confederate cavalry). What gave it away? Well, this ‘Dorn’ was shot in his wrist (of all places) by Native Americans and was subsequently given command of the garrisons of two forts below New Orleans on the Missisipi River, as well as the Departement of Texas to capture and secure resources that belonged to the US Army.
- The story of (Egyptian) Horus actually features a pretty strange part that is quite similar to the ‘geneseed’ used for the Space Marines. Also: have a look at both Horus’s, because you have ‘Horus the younger’ and ‘the elder’, who are quite different characters. (similar to Horus’s change).
- Lorgar: about Urizen is written ‘ He believes himself holy (yep) and he sets about establishing various sins in a book (hello book of Lorgar) of brass (yep) that serves as a combination of various laws as discovered by Newton, given to Moses, and the general concept of deism, which force uniformity upon mankind. The rest of the Eternals in turn become indignant at Urizen turning against eternity, and they instill these essences of sin within Urizen's creation. (…) also: Urizen features the figure of ‘Orc’, a fallen entity. About which: Symbolically, the Orc cycle describes how Urizen and Orc are part of one unified whole with Urizen representing the destructive and older essence while Orc is the young and creative essence.’ (essentially: order and chaos)
for Mortarion, -arion in ancient greek is a diminutive suffix. I had always thought that beside the obvious images of death the the reaper they were also throwing a wrench in it or an easter egg by naming him "little death" which is a reference to weakening of consciousness and losing a part of yourself but at the same time a reference to post-orgasm sensation, which idk, nurglites might get from disease ?
Magnus, perhaps ironically, has always reminded me of Odin. The one-eyed god of magic
Like someone else remarked, they also both got defeated by a wolf.
This is exactly the sort of 40k content I want to see.
Forests are called "Johnsons" because they've got wood.
You missed the iron hands Gorgon reference. They’re all turning to iron.
The way Konrad Curze ruled Nostramo is also an unsubtle parallel to the historical figure Vlad the Impaler.
I've been into Warhammer and its lore since the late 90s when I got my first box set as a kid and I actually never even thought about the Primarch naming conventions/origins. Several of them are pretty easy connections to make, but I had no idea about the Dark Angel poem or the origin of the Urizen title. Thank you for this Warhammer-adjacent history lesson, really enjoyed it.
I have this idea that Magnus might be a reference to Hermes Trismegistus, the Greek-Egyptian god of magic (Egyption because Trismesgistos was a byname of Thoth). Trismegistus means "thrice great" - so there is an element of "Magnus" from an egyptian source, if you squint your eyes a bit.
As I recall, Magnus is also a Icelandic name
It's a shame more of them weren't careful allusions with lots of detail. Would love to see a similar breakdown for other references.
Nah that's the fun.
-Heart of Darkness Reference
-tortured gay poet
-Mr. Raven of the Ravens!
@@HydraulicDesign You can tell the Rogue Trader designers were pen and paper role players because those are the types of names you'd come up with in your D&D group as you descend into Monty Python references while your GM tries to get the campaign back on track.
I sort of agree, but I don't think when this was first written they imagined 40K would become what it is today, so it probably wasn't as important to have as detailed fluff as we do now. It's all been haphazardly cobbled together over the years
Can you guess from the name what Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau’s faction is?! 😂
@@HydraulicDesignThat's Iron Hand. He has iron hands. He leads the Iron Hands. They also have iron hands.
I absolutely love apocalypse now and the fact that I got super into 40k and then found out about Conrad is pretty cool. Small world
And then we just call them stuff like Peter Turbo, Rowboat Girlyman, Morty, Speedking and let's not forget: Batman.
Robot Gorillaman does seem to fit him pretty well, actually, as a reference to Optimus Primal. A direct descendant from Optimus Prime, the greatest of all his people's leaders, tasked with preventing the slide into destruction of an entire galaxy.
Now I view the Emperor as more of a cross between incompetent Shockwave and Megatron myself, but that doesn't work as well with the name.
Be interesting to see your take on Eldar along these lines. The big Craftworlds are definitely named after pagan festivals - Samhain, Beltane, etc. - so there's probably more interesting stuff lurking waiting to be uncovered, especially with their heavy leaning towards 70s science-fantasy space elves.
Dont mean to offend anyone here but you and bricky are genuinely the only 40k content creators i can watch. You guys are superb and for someone who has only been into 40k for a month ive learned too much from yall! Keep it up!
I can't imagine Perturabo name origin is this complex. Make me like the bastard even more
As someone who knew about half of these already (either from 40k or already knowing about the name) and having presumably the same education/ cultural frame of reference/interests as the people writing 40k XD This was deeply satisfying to me, thank you
Same
another fulgrim connection: chemos(h) was the name of a canaanite deity, and the phoenicians were canaanites
Loved this and would very much like to see more like it
I had heard somewhere that lion means other things instead of just lion. One that I heard was lion can translates to son so lion el’jonsons name would translate to “son of the forest”
I always figured Lorgar was just “Lore”+”gar” (Gar has an old English root meaning “spear”, you still see it in names like Edgar…)
I really like the parts where you say when particular name or concept appeared in the lore for the frst time. Usually wikis show just the current canon. Considering how some of the names show to be more thought out than other, it would be interesting to check when each of them appeared.
I heard somewhere that Angron name has a little story. The writers apparently frequented a bar with a doorman named Jon. They found home kinda short tempered and so referred to him as "Angry Jon".
They felt kind of bad for representing a person they knew in the real world as a pretty evil functional character but they where beyond the point of no return on the characters and their names
I thought this was going to be about the in-lore reason they got their names, but this is so much better! I am especially thrown by Lion El Johnson; it makes some serious subtext to the Lion's relationship with Luthor I now wonder might have been more intentional.
I would definitely love to see more videos like this! Great work!
Well, _subtext_ is an anagram of _buttsex_
Wasnt he his adoptive father tho💀
@@lilpretzel5629 Spartan system of team building?
@@lilpretzel5629 For like all of a year or two, I think. Primarchs age very fast, and the Lion was noted as being quick to mature. Luthor's scenes portray the relationship as one of very close brothers more than anything. I doubt there is any intended romance in the text anyway. It just makes me wonder about the fact the only Primarch whose story is deeply tied to one particular mortal also happens to be based on a gay man allegory.
That's quite unlikely. The real theme of the Dark Angel is not homosexuality by itself, but hypocrisy, being driven by it and be consumed by it, the burning secrets that go against what you preach around. Besides, we have a whole novel on Luther and this was definetely not mentioned once.
I wonder, did Primarchs have primal urges or romantic ones? We have bonds of family displayed by all of them, or almost everyone. But romantic relationships? That's actually a pretty interesting topic.
Videos like this add a level of enrichment to the 40k experience not much else can. Thanks for dedicating the time and effort to this sort of content!
*Also ANOTHER thing to note with Ferrus Manus (in addition to the Greek myth)...the Gorgon/Medusa was BEHEADED by the hero Perseus
Oh, I forgot about this.
And now it's clear why he was beheaded. 😢
Wow I'm truly amazed,, as you pointed out, the distance in depth between Lion El and Angron. Im all for it, Love an arena of art where both silly and deep coexist, It feels welcoming imo. Also Really great video, Im thankful for your channel and work friend!
I would love a video like this about some of the more well-know IG regiments. It could probably double as a bit of an introduction to each in-universe too, two vids with one stone!
Maybe Magnus the Red, is just "The Big Red Button", which can be pressed in an emergency.
Might hint to him being able to reset the narrative re: golden throne etc
Small tidbit about salamanders (the real world ones, not the Space Marines) that I learned recently: The belief that they are immune to - or made from - fire stems from the fact, that they like to spend the winter months in damp, dark places to hibernate, essentially. The winter months are also where people used to warm their homes with fire... by burning logs... which were stored outside and were damp and dark due to getting wet and being stacked. So from time to time a poor little salamander would be woken up by their winter home going up in flames, scurry out of the fire in fear of their life and people would go "Oooh, see! Another one born from the flames. This year will be a good harvest..." or something along those lines.
More Historical lore of 40k please. Really just more, your work here is truly amazing. Slow clap to you sir, Slow clap to you.
My favorite is Ferrus Manus the Iron Handed, who rules his legion the Iron Hands, with Iron Hands, from his ship the Iron Hand.
I don't know if many (or any) of the Eldar names (Khaine, Eldanesh, Isha etc.) are based on real-world references, if so it would be great to see a video with a breakdown of them!
Great video as always :)
AFAIK the Eldar names all came from Warhammer Fantasy and were ported over just like the Chaos Gods or the Orc/Orks.
Isha was a Babylonian (maybe Elamite) goddess
Kurnous is named after the Celtic hunter god Cernunnos
Khaine I'm pretty sure is named after the biblical Cain (son of Adam, who killed his brother Abel)
Awesome video. Had no idea about all the literature and occult stuff. Very informative video. Keep up the good work.
I love how intricately coherent 40k is.
I love these style of videos.
Studying roman archeology it is a delight to see all the latin and other references to Ancient rome.
To muddy the waters a bit, the Dark Angels use a ton of imagery from Thelema, most notably the unicursal hexagram.
Oh wow, didn't know Warhammer lore basis had so much references to literature, now I have more things to check out and read
It'd be interesting to pinpoint when Horus became Horus Lupercal. I'm pretty sure he didn't have the Lupercal moniker up until later in GW's history.
For Rogal Dorn, the inspiration seems to be from Scottish Gaelic rather than Irish. The Gaelic for fist is dòrn and the Gaelic for royal is rìoghail.
Rìoghail Dòrn meaning Royal Fist seems to much to be a coincidence for the leader of the Imperial Fists.
"Someone had a deadline to hit". Brilliant.
I honestly feel we 40k lore buffs should pause and recite this every time we find something dumb or nonsensical in the lore. Thank you Ian, for devising a simple mantra to reduce anger and confusion amongst 40k fans. I will be nominating you for a nobel prize in the field of reducing arguments in youtube comments sections. Great video as always
Love your content man. Too many Warhammer TH-camrs just regurgitating wiki pages or other videos. Love your perspective on the franchise lore that also takes it's real world development and history into account.
Dorn being simple, uncomplicated and almost unimpressive works as fridge brilliance in a way.
I always figured Magnus came from "mage" or "magus", since hes a sorcerer.
Magnus meaning "big sorcerer."
fulgrim is also super fast, so maybe lighting speed...also remember he was supposed to land jaghata's world... so maybe its a reference to that?
Man, watching this video gave me such a big nostalgia hit for my formative days learning about 40 back in the early aughts. We would sit and endlessly geek out on message boards over references in Primarch names and shit like the Star Child and what not. Anyways, one thing we kept mentioning about Fulgrim back then, was how the name is composed of two Scandi words for 'ugly': "Ful" (Swedish) and "Grim" more generally. It was kinda funny to imagine that the name of the prettiest and most vain Primarch was somehow intended to mean "Ugly-ugly" (even if that probably never was the intention).
My favorite fact about the irl Lionel Johnson comes from Alberto Manguel's "The Library at Night," "The English poet Lionel Johnson was so pressed for room [to store his book collection] that he devised shelves suspended from the ceiling like chandeliers."
Hats off to one of the more unique and interesting 40 K video on TH-cam. I find myself returning to this every so often to give it another listen through. Again excellent work.
Fun fact, back when there was games day in Birmingham, in the 90s I went to one and the designers where there doing autographs and answering questions, so I asked them, how did you decide which legions would be traitor? And I think it was jervis johnson, who said they rolled a D20 to decide which would be loyal/traitor, then later decided to scrub 2 for players to make their own
As far as I know, Angron is named after "Angry" Ron the doorman at the local pub/gay club "The Rock"
I can't find any ACTUAL evidence of the Rock, even in interviews and stuff, so I've generally left that out.
@@ArbitorIan it was a story I heard when I worked for GW back in 95.
@@ArbitorIan fantastic video by the way 😎
I heard it was a Ronald Reagan reference, no evidence just the rumor at my game stores
Absolutely storming video, damn near choked up a lung at the 'Johnson/Forest' section and so brutally accurate about deadlines and naming conventions.
I would love to see more videos about the real life history behind a lot of the warhammer themes and stories! This was a great video!
I always thought Fulgrim was maybe playing off the word ‘Fulcrum’ which is a point where something balances. I kind of like the idea of Fulgrim representing the beauty of something that is ‘perfectly balanced,’only for him to fall off the deep end.
I'd love to see more videos like this! I always find it interesting seeing things pulled from other settings and mashed into 40k and turned up to 11.
I think it's interesting that the Space Wolves operate much like the Varangian Guard did for the Emperors of Constantinople, fearless, rambunctious, fiercely loyal, and terrifying shock troops of the Byzantine Armies. They'd often be used to execute orders both no one else would or could, tying into the Space Wolves being used as the Emperor's executioners so much as to wiping out one of the two lost legions and eventually destroying Prospero as well.
I never knew where the primarchs got there names from, I know Fantasy is set early in the 17th century of the real world there’s lots of little things going on that are influenced by real world events. Interesting
As always your videos are not only entertaining but also rich with amazing information. Keep em coming Arbitor!
I have always loved that Agron is basically because he is angry and possibly called ron :)
Thank you! I didn't need another reason to love hobby fluff, but now it turns out there are layers on layers that only multiplied my appreciation for decades of lore. This is quickly becoming the premiere lore channel on TH-cam. Keep it up, and thank you as always!
One of my favourite myths is that Angron was named after a well known angry club bouncer nicknamed “Angry Ron”.
I just wanted to tell Ian "thank you" for being concise, interesting and down to earth in your descriptions of the universe and facets of Warhammer 40k. Longtime fame of the setting (although sadly never played the tabletop game), I had lost touch with this years ago. I rediscovered it a few years ago with the video game Inquisitor, but that felt more like a Diablo clone than I had hoped for.
When I found your channel I subscribed after the 2nd video I watched! This was directly due to your friendly, detailed discussions showing both the good and not so good sides of the universe as well as your deep dives into the lore. Watching all the lore videos will be a great way to start my New Year!
Hmmm… The Phoenician sailor in TS Eliot’s the wasteland ‘who was once handsome and tall as you?’ Might seem a reach but it was the intro quote for Consider phlebas by Iain M Banks.
Consider Phlebas came out in 1987 when Rogue Trader first came out, and I have zero doubt Rick Priestly et al. were reading that wild new sci-fi at the time. They were well-read guys anyway, I don't think it's a reach.
One of the wonderful things about 40k is how they're able to conjure up such a vibrant world simply by naming things.
I always hoped that Angron was in part a reference to an angon - the Germanic javelin of the early medieval period, combined with angry
Of course being from Notts myself there was always the legend that it came from a local Angry Ron
There’s also the Castle Rock connection too for the Dark Angels
I think Corvus Corax is also a reference to Matheus Corvinus, who created the hungarian Black Army.
Also, there's a famous iron hand prosthetic used by Götz von Berlichingen, or Götz of the Iron Hand, from the XVII century. Regrettably, that Iron Hand symbol was used for the 17th SS Panzergrenadier Division Götz von Berlichingen, which probably inspired the logo and the black and silver color scheme.
I think you've hit on something that is really fundamental to 40k, the mixing of high and low, contrasts on every level, from the stratified feudal society and the wacky power levels to the mishmash of pulp fiction, ancient myth and 19th century literature references, to how terrible my old paint jobs look compared to my latest ones. 40k gives your brain a most pleasant feeling of aesthetic whiplash.
I always assumed that Konrad’s name was a reference to Conrad Veidt, your explanation makes far more sense
Loved this one! I really enjoy this sort of nonsense. I'd like to see you do some for Warhammer Fantasy too if you're interested in that.
I feel like the Dark Angels should all get another special organ now. Also, Angron needs to officially open an pub.
Roboute Guillimane's name may come from thinker *Robert Gilman* with his works on eco-villages and sustainable developpement, which we can see in the Realm of Ultramar. ;)
Robert ‘Gilman’ Allen Jackson: UN administrator and “master of logistics”. Coincidence? I think not!! (Does this mean Guilliman should actually have an Aussie accent? Majorkill is going love that 😂)
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Jackson_(UN_administrator)
The Primarch's names mostly give me the feeling that a group of inspired your people really just wanted to create something cool. Some are careful allusions, others simply follow the rule of cool. Today that would be seen as to gaudy but that's exactly how I like it.
Surprised you didn't go with the phonic similarity between Fulgrim and fulcrum, and would befit his arrogance.
Absolutely more videos about references to all things in 40k!