If the Riddler was batman's arch nemesis you will probably say that you are getting tired of him just like your saying every time you talk about the joker.
False! Bane & the Joker are smarter than the Riddler! It’s always been that way, or the Riddler would just prove he’s smarter than Batman by learning the Joker’s birth name! Bane also out smarted Bruce to the point of just using an Arkham outbreak as a distraction to sneak into the Batcave & break his back!
All terrific points. It really is annoying how so many people are a bit too in love with the Joker at the expense of everyone else. Hopefully this upcoming Batman movie gives some much needed spotlight to the awesomeness that is Edward Nygma.
Ithink the real issue was how the Arkham Games, specifically, allowed Joker to take over the plot too much, to the point where he supplants the second game's ACTUAL main villain (as well as in Origins) and eveen when he's DEAD he STILL takes up the plot more than the actual main villain of Arkham Knight. We probably wouldn't be so burnt out on him if the games and other media weren't so obsessed with him
@@sarafontanini7051 No denying the Joker's place in Knight was completely pointless. All he does is annoy the fudge out of the player for the whole game. Wonder how many others raced through the main story on a playthrough, JUST to shut him up? Origins. While the story of Batman's first encounter with Joker shouldn't have been shoehorned into this one, I do enjoy the game regardless. Black Mask or Penguin should've been the main villains, though. City... Joker's role in this one's smaller than the others. But... the whole subplot about him trying to find a cure for Titan, not to mention him randomly calling you just to annoy you - completely pointless. Substitute Joker's territory for Black Mask or Ventriloquist's empires, maybe explain Joker's death by having Penguin succeed on putting him and Harley on display, then Joker starts talking to Bats during the museum infiltration, and it annoys Penguin so much that he just shoots him. That would make City so much better. (Besides, Strange and Ra's are the focus in City, not Joker, so it wouldn't be a total waste to remove him) Asylum. I will admit, Scarecrow and Ivy steal the show in this one, and while Joker's plan does fuel the plot, i'm sure Ivy would've overshadowed him in the Gotham Gazette the following morning. Truth be told, I will concede Joker was... tolerable... in this one.
@@adamcronchey7264 honestly it never really felt liek Strange was the big bad to me. Sure it STARTS with him being the main threat but when you look at it, Joker gets far more screentime than him and more of the plot is based around thwarting Joker's plan to poison otham, while Strange's plan is left in the background until he comes up again only to die anticlimatically. it is telling to me at least that the finale has nothing to do with Strange, Ra's or even Arkham City itself, but instead batman and Joker and how the Joker finally fucking dies.
The next video should be Why TWO-FACE is the greatest Batman villain. Come on Rogues you know you want to do it. Edit: I made this comment before I saw the entire video lol.
While I think their shared intellect is the most obvious connection, I also like to think of Batman and Riddler as men both plagued by obsession. Batman by his one-man war on crime, and the Riddler by his quest to prove his genius and worth. The sad truth is that because of Riddler's more dangerous obsession, it's lead him to be a lonely unloved narcissist, something Batman might inch closer to any time he neglects his family or life as Bruce in favor of his mission.
I’d love to see Riddler go up against Luthor at some point. I mean if he could outdo the smartest man on the planet, then he automatically is smarter than number 2 (at least according to Ozymandius’ ranking)
I would like to see a Riddler ves Penguin Battle. Pengee has been compared to Bat's Intellect before too. At one point they tried to make Pengee look like a mirror of Bruce, what if kind of thing...
The Riddler is my favorite Batman villain because no other villain brings out the detective element of Batman quite like he does. For a character called "the world's greatest detective" a great deal of Batman's best stories aren't all that full of mystery. His villains leave calling cards and they have very clear motives: its almost never too difficult to determine who does what and why. And the riddler SORT of has this going for him too, but when his gimmick is to keep you guessing it inherently makes his stories less predictable.
5:13 In one of his tapes in Arkham Knight during the villains meeting Scarecrow organised Riddler accused Scarecrow of playing to his ego then claimed he didn't have one. He's so egotistical that he doesn't even think he is all evidence to the contrary.
I honestly agree. It is more compelling that Riddler want to win and don’t waste money and resources. There could be a story of Riddler finally defeating Batman and living in a world without Batman. I can’t believe he went from fighting Joker in a war to being a c list villain. Thanks DC Writers.
@@redchariot4006 Something tells me I should go into comic book writing. Then we can get good depictions of the REALLY good rogues. Penguin, Riddler, Scarecrow, Two Face, Clayface (well, i'm hardly likely to exclude my favourite Batman villain, aren't i?) and perhaps Jervis... could do with some proper respect these days. Not to mention Joker just might get some competition for his title from newcomer Saber Wolf...
It like Spiderman case 1 Joker (green goblin): caos and order archnemesis, they attack the morality of the hero 2 Riddler (Doc oct): the second place, they have a lot of respect of each other, they attack the mind of the hero
@@HorrorCritical i know im not a random personj who talks dummy stuff,.. But he is gernally more asociated with being a antihero and Canrage is way more scary
@@felixleidig8307 I see why, both Scarecrow and Carnage can be scary. But I say Carnage is more of related to Bane since both Carnage and Bane can actually break the hero
I feel like I'm in the minority around here when I say I think it's good to have him be a gangster. Batman has enough of master criminals in his rogues gallery.
Maybe penguin could still be a gangster but maybe he could have some one pull off a heist for him every now and then and he could also be a fence buying stolen goods maybe he could even get his hands dirty and pull off a heist himself due to his connections it could be hard for batman to prove it was him best of both worlds I suppose
The riddler will gain popularity because of the new batman movie, I love it! He is my favorite villain and I hate the fact that a big part of the peoples think that he is pathetic, not smart or not good as joker
The Riddler is do under rated as a villian and is the #1 villian in my opinion. Dc needs to stop the harley quinn ( over rated as hell ) and joker stories. And focus on other villans like Riddler. Now n days people see him as a joke. He is so interesting as a character and it's sad that DC dose not see his potential. Call be bias but I feel the Riddler could be one of DC most popular character. If they actually went outside their confort zone and I hope the Batman movie will reveal it to them.
I am sick and tired of the joker Batman has lots of great villains Including penguin, riddler, two face, clayface, scarecrow, poison ivy mr freeze, Hugo strange and Ras al ghul. Unfortunately Dc only uses Joker and Bane.
@@Dawn_Of_Justice Riddler: Lies! he is just praising me like a guy in church. For I Edward nygma, The Riddler am true greatest criminal mind in gotham.
I've been saying this for YEARS! And I get the same "Heresy! Blasphemy!" pointed fingers. They both utalize their intellects to predict several moves ahead of one another.
I gotta admit you made some great points here. This is a really interesting concept and I would love to see you make the case for Pengy, Two-Face(obviously, we all know that will come when the series is well-received) or maybe even Hugo Strange.
I think the Riddler is like a detective turned evil - if he wasn't committing elaborate crimes he could just as easily be solving them - so he and Batman are perfect rivals in that respect.
Totally agree, I feel like movies have overhyped the character and they make him out to be the supreme villain. But really riddler, two-face, or I could argue scarecrow should be his arch nemesis. I feel we get average stories for most rogues and then for joker he appears in every damn comic! Love your channel by the way!!!
Years ago it used to be that Joker and the other villains were on equal footing. The DCAU didn't overuse him and gave every villain their fair share of screentime. As good as it was I think the success of The Dark Knight and Ledger's Joker sent the wrong message to DC's comic writers, filmmakers, TV producers, game developers, cartoon makers and the rest. It made them think Joker had to be in or be the main villain of almost everything Batman related when he doesn't.
@@Xehanort10 All of what you said! The Joker movie just made his over exposure in the comics even worse. It’s the exact same problem with the green Goblin in Spider-Man.
@@Dhampir101980 The Joker may be the most well known Batman villain but he's not the only one. There are plenty of others who deserve more exposure like Two Face, Penguin, Scarecrow, Riddler, Mr Freeze, Clayface, Poison Ivy, Professor Pyg and the like. Freeze and Ivy in particular deserve better live action film versions to make up for Batman & Robin.
Great video! While I think The Joker should still be Batman’s arch-nemesis, villains like The Riddler, Penguin, Two-Face, Scarecrow, and Bane are still great arch-enemies. And they deserve to be treated as such more often in the comics. Heck, it wouldn’t hurt to see a resurgence in Poison Ivy as a major villainess again.
I think this new movie is going to skyrocket Riddlers popularity. But, one point I think against Riddler is how difficult it can be to write his stories. This was the case in tas, his puzzles are difficult to come up with. Meanwhile joker stories could be made a dime a dozen because sometimes a simple pun is all he needs to start a caper
Yeah I agree about the Riddler. If Batman is Sherlock Holmes than Riddler is his Moriarty. I’ll give the New 52 credit credit for making The Riddler a complete badass with Zero Year. Even having Batman admit the one villain he wishes he’d killed was NOT Joker, but Riddler.
Hopefully, Paul Dano`s darker,complex,more Zodiac killer-esque take on Riddler finally gets our dear Mr. Nashton the respect he deserves from non-Comic readers!
You might want to consider doing this style for other rogues galleries. A video about why Brainiac should be Superman's nemesis as opposed to Luthor could be enlightening.
@@wowisntitanamazinglyamazin9550 But what has Mongul done to Superman that would make their rivalry personal on both sides? That's the key part of an arch enemy, it's got to be personal on both sides. Brainiac shrank Kandor, AND was responsible for the destruction of Krypton in some continuities. That's why he'd work better than Luthor as the nemesis.
That outtake at the end was beautiful. So beautiful that I will now listen to it again. Also, great video! Really interesting concept for a series! I'd imagine somewhere down the line Scarecrow may be a talking point here..
Hush is a great showcase of what The Riddler is capable of as a big bad villain, especially since for the first time ever he actually HIDES the fact he's the mastermind for a good long while. Plus in his debut his 'riddles' were ALSO deadly SAW-style traps. sadly, it seems most writers forget this and seem to think he's a joke villain, and when he is allowe to be threatening they don't capitalise on it too much.
You made really excellent points here. Riddler definitely has a ton of potential to be Batman's ultimate rival, in fact there is already sort of a rivalry in there. If only it was boosted more for lack of better words. Im glad you're giving the spotlight to some of these other villians. What was known as the greatest rogues gallery in comic books and yet in recent years they are hardly utilize to their best. From games, to live action, to even animated Batman movies, even if Joker isn't the main bad guy (which he usually is) he'll make some sort of significant cameo for the most part. While other villians will be beat in like a few minutes in a movie. It would be a neat change up to have a plot solely focus around another rogue that isn't Joker or Harley Quinn. But since they are so big that's not going to be as common place. I mean, could you imagine any other Batman villian getting their own film or series besides those two? Not likely at all, who knows if it would work anyways
I've always said that in the nineties films, the villain actors should have been the exact opposite. Nicholson's Joker: makes a few low key sarcastic observations, wears a couple costumes-- is otherwise very mysterious. Carrey's Riddler: Sends Bruce Wayne a couple of riddles-- that are MUCH MORE like clownish party invitations-- but otherwise runs around like a refugee from clown school, being basically a Looney Tunes neon bozo! I'm tellin' you, somethin's ALWAYS been weird about this!
Yeah the Burton / Schumacher films tended to mix up the villains with Joker-lite personalities and other Gotham rogue personalities into the mix as opposed to, you know, just simply sticking to their selected character traits. Jim Carrey's Riddler was especially Joker-esque, along with a dose of Mad Hatter's BTAS origins and mind control schtick. Ironically enough, Jack Nicholson's Joker came across to me as the most subtle and less ridiculous off the bad guys in that quadrilogy.. and it's supposed to be the Joker for Christ's sake lmao.
Hot take: Riddler's plan in the movie actually fits in with Riddler's motives, as he's actively stealing information from people's minds in order to have ALL he knowledge in gotham and prove he's smarter than everyone, while also being insanely jealous of Bruce Wayne for getting all the attention while nobody looks at him prior to his rise to villainy.
Awesome video Mr.Rogues, although the whole concept of Batman and Riddler being opposite can be apply to all Batman rogues. One the reason why Batman villain are the best rogues gallery in my opinion is because if analized, most of them are colorfull, have mental issues and act as a counterpoint to Batman's personality traits, almost like a representation of what he is or could become. For exemple: Riddler represent Batman intellect and what he could become if he let his mission becomes a compulsion, Mr Freeze represents Batman's lost and desire for vengence and what he could become if he decided to use brutal questionable methods to achive his , Joker represents the total lost of logic in the world and what Batman could become if he gave up trying to make sense of the world, beliving that everything is just a "joke". Basically, every time Batman fights against one of his rogues, he is not fighting just a villain, he is fighting against a representation of one of his inner demons, a dark reflection of himself.
I agree with you on everything I think there's just one problem regarding riddler. I don't think he was created early enough. Riddler was only introduced during 1948 while villains like two-face, penguin, scarecrow, and joker were introduced earlier on. If riddler was introduced earlier I think he would have won the top spot. I just think longevity plays a big part of this.
Honestly, even Man-Bat would be an ideal Arch nemesis as opposed to the Joker these days. People are starting to get sick of the character, since he has been shoved down our throats for too long, alienating huge potential from others.
I think a large part of why Joker is more popular are the actors who played him. Cesar Romero, Jack Nicholson, Mark Hamill, Heath Ledger, and Joaquin Phoenix.
I love this video so much. I will never wrap my mind around why people consider Joker intelligent? Because of his unpredictability? It's really sad how other (better) villains suffer because of Joker's popularity.
The Joker actually IS pretty smart, after all his famous Joker Toxin is an invention of his, and even when he's spontaneous he's capable of coming up with plans and traps, it's just a lot of time his schemes are left to be spontaneous rather than long term plans.
Rogues since your birthday is on 31st March(if I am correct) then Happy Birthday in advance and by the way amazing video.They really should make him an arch nemesis. Edit : Sorry Rogues,I realised your birthday was on 19th March ,I am extremely sorry sir for the wrong date Belated Happy Birthday from me .
I'm so burned out on Joker that I welcome emphasis put on the other rogues as Batman's arch nemesis. When was the last good story where all the villains tried to prove they were Batman's arch enemy, but there was no clear answer to the question? And I mean from the Rogues you would expect - Riddler, Penguin, Two-Face, etc. Ras Al Ghul would fit into the category of an arch enemy, but he doesn't have the type of ego for that type of story
I'm so glad you're back Mr. Rogues. Great video. I would love a video of the reasons Maxi Zeus should be Batman's arch enemy. If anyone can make the case it's you.
Scarecrow could be good as an arch nemesis for batman. An aspect of batman is he is a master of fear. The two masters of fear being rivals is an intresting idea. He also works as a dark reflection of batman.
In my opinion, I've always thought Bane should've been Batman's arch rival because he was both a physically skilled, venom aside, and intellectual threat while having a deep respect for Batman and vice versa. They're like a mirror image of one another with Bane being an example of what Batman could've been if he had been raised in the troubling conditions and devoid of any advice from people like Alfred, becoming more cold and ruthless as a result, even though Bane does have a moral compass. Although this is also the case for a character like Ra's Al Ghul, the reason for his continual existence makes him overpowered, in addition to his skills and resources,which makes him a better event high stakes villain but probably a less consistent archenemy. But don't take my word for it :)
Tbh, I wholeheartedly agree with you on Bane. The guy can easily be established as A-tier of the rogues gallery when executed carefully, a complex force to be reckoned with. Along with excellent writing and love from the original character's source material, Bane would become a top billing, iconic standout (next to Catwoman and Joker) in an already iconic list of colourful supervillains in Gotham City. Don't get me wrong, he's already rest assured a comfortable seat in pop culture history, The Dark Knight Rises, Arkham Origins and the Knightfall story arc comes to mind, yet soo much more can be utilised.
I always find it funny how often videos on the Riddler begin with "I know its unpopular, but the Riddler is my favorite villain." I think he is perceived to be less popular than he is. As for who should be the arch-nemesis, I prefer it when there is debate between 3 or 4 candidates. I think it allows more themes to be explored. It can be frustrating when there is a theme that is present in the background for a character and many of his rogues, but it gets neglected because it isn't present in the arch-nemesis.
You should make one about joker just to be redundant. Maybe even make one that’s like “why joker is Batman’s greatest enemy” and “why joker isn’t Batman’s greatest enemy”
My reason: Eddie pulled off one of the best Batman stories that were still having ramifications recently (Hush), while also painting a target on his back for other Bat-Rogues (and besides being roughed up, he's avoided real consequences)
I've always enjoyed the Riddler far more than the Joker. I am also utterly exhausted with Joker and Harley Quinn showing up so much. I simply don't find them that interesting and rely way to heavily on plot armor to not get steamrolled by smart, stronger, and better equipped characters. I get it, Batman won't kill them but there is no reason Bane wouldn't have turned him into a pretzel or Ra's Al Ghul put a bullet or knife through him or a random Arkham guard blowing his head off. Granted, part of that is due to comics rules, but its so grating when the Joker gets "as crazy as the plot calls for" and then does...whatever the plot calls for...because crazy. TLDR: Joker is boring at this point, the others are more intriguing.
@@mr.rogues4145 I was just kidding. I'm just saying that Batman has all these unique and interesting villains like Two-Face, Scarecrow, and Poison Ivy, and yet most major storylines center on Joker. I'm just tired of him is all.
i like to think that the Riddler thinks he is batman's arch nemesis so he is envious of joker and joker doesn't care about being batman's arch nemesis and would rather be his lover which is why he is so jealous of cat woman because she gets all of the attention i mean he straight up says he is in love with batman multiple times plus comics like going sane show us joker cant exist without batman but i also think eddy would quit being Riddler out of boredom because what's the point its kind of like how Stan lee said doc ock is Spiderman's arch nemesis but green goblin is peter parkers arch nemesis batman is Riddler's arch foe joker is batman's and batman is jokers best friend and or lover depending on your interpretation of their relationship
Another reason why Riddler should be the arch for of Batman is the fact that he makes for a better rival. When he became a PI, he essentially became a version of Batman who cashed in on his notoriety and becomes a more public "hero ". Granted he is doing it for the fame and attention but this change altered the dynamic between himself and Bats. He served as a rival detective and competed with Batman to solve crimes. His run as a detective also revealed a more complex side to him. True, he was always complexed, but his time as a detective revealed a new Side to him. While there were days where he missed his criminal career, Edward actually seemed to enjoy playing the good guy even if it did piss off some of his old associates. Watching him occasionally struggle with the temptation to go back to crime was fun to watch. But of course DC comics ruined his arc when they made him go back to being a villain. Completely out of no where.
Yeah the joker is my favorite Batman villain but he works best when he’s used to mix things up for Batman. Batman’s a detective who goes up against more predictable villains such as mobsters, thieves and such, while joker’s an anarchist who’s methods counter Batman’s meticulous nature; this works great but this isn’t the only dynamic that works.
We can't bust heads like we used to, but we have our ways. One trick is to tell 'em stories that don't go anywhere - like the time I caught the ferry over to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for my shoe, so, I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. Give me five bees for a quarter, you'd say. Now where were we? Oh yeah: the important thing was I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn't have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...
I think the people behind Batman 66 were far more fascinated by the possibilities of the Riddler. But, then, the TV shows really MADE Riddler. He was just a third-class villain until Frank Gorshin made him into a parody of Kirk Douglas, and that interpretation, that style, that potential, guided him into the comics as well. Then, when Batman's villains got real dark in the 80s, the Riddler was left behind. That interpretation of Riddler could never truly go overboard like Joker did. And so, he fell back into third-class villainy and was only brought out when they basically had him taken over by a demon or something like that. Nobody really knew what to do with Riddler until BTAS, which played him as someone who MUST prove he is the smartest man in the room, even smarter than Batman. But it never works because Batman can usually outthink Riddler eventually. Making him a master of virtual reality was just another riddle to figure out, and, really, it's something that the Joker can never do. Joker doesn't have the patience, and it's not his style anyway. This is just another way Riddler can prove he's the smartest man in the room. My favorite moment involving Riddler comes at the end of the Hush storyline when Riddler reveals that he knows Batman's identity, which he calls Gotham City's greatest riddle. Riddler brags, "And now the world is my oyster, right, BRUCE?!" Batman then asks, "What time is it when an elephant sits on a fence?" Riddler quickly answers, "Time to get a new fence. Everyone knows that one - it's worthless." Batman responds, "That's right. A riddle everyone knows the answer to IS worthless. And that's why I have nothing to fear from you. YOU can't tell anyone. Because if everyone knows, then you have nothing." Riddler thinks about this, but can't say a word, because Batman is correct. Once again, Riddler is defeated simply because he can do NOTHING. Riddler, in the end, has a lot of potential, and he COULD be the greatest villain in Gotham. But in the end, his main motivation is to be the smartest in the room, not to rob a bank, commit massive crimes, or take over the world. The Riddler really has nothing more than that. And he can never be the smartest in the room while Batman remains alive. THAT is why Riddler hates Batman even more than the rest of Batman's Rogues' Gallery. Each of Batman's villains has his own motives to get ahead. The Riddler's is simple: he wants to be the best. And he can never be the best with Batman around. And that's why he will always fail.
Th hush storyline has its issues (its a bit too much of a 'batman fights ALL the villains' type story than a connected narrative, and while I have no issue with Hush himself there are a few who find his motives and origin ridiculous, even though there are far worse examples of "evil mirrors to batman" like Prometheus) but what it IS good about is being a Riddler story. Not a Joker plot, and not even a Hush plot. The entire thing is RIDDLER'S scheme, and the way it ends is fantastic.
@@sarafontanini7051 Agreed. The more they used Hush after this story, you realized how nothing the character really is. Yes, Hush is Riddler's story, and that was great.
It seems like all the villains are really an aspect of Batman's unconscious or psyche. The Joker represents Bruce's want to lash out at the world violently because of his trauma. Strange is Bruce's deep need to understand the human mind. Riddler is Bruce's love of detective work and finding clues. Bane is Bruce coming out of the shadows filled with power and rage. Scarecrow is Bruce's use of fear like you said. The Ventriloquist is Bruce's split between his everyday business man philanthropist and his violent avenger or the calm and chaotic justice portion of his brain. Man Bat is pretty obvious. The Mad Hatter's mind control could be a commentary on Bruce's family of other crime fighters that he has groomed since childhood think like them mentally and devote their lives to his cause and not really live out their own lives they would have if they hadn't met him. Two Face again the split personality which is a them in all of his villains and Bruce himself. Hush is the Anti-Christ version of Bruce and Batman. Ra's is Bruce if he gave in and took his goals too far.
Other reasons why the Riddler should be Batman's archenemy: his motivation and morality. The only thing that he wants, is to prove that he is the best. He doesn't have a cause like Poison Ivy. he doesn't care about money and power like The Penguin. He just thinks that the only way to have value, is to prove that you are the best, and for everyone to know it. He is the embodiment of the idea that all men are not created equal, that its both right and good for the intellectually superior to trample on others to prove their superiority. But Batman is the embodiment of the idea that its wrong for the strong and cunning to prey on the weak and the simple. The Joker perceives reality differently than the other characters because of his super-sanity. He doesn't so much oppose Batman's morality as he does bypass it. The Riddler operates on the same plane as Batman mentally. But, he goes in the opposite direction. He perceives the same reality as The Bat. But he has the opposite morality. He is more of a moral opponent to Batman than the Joker is.
To me, the Joker works perfectly as Batman's greatest foe. Not only is he a "light devil" to Batman's "dark angel," as you pointed out, but Batman is basically an animal while the Joker is a clown - and this evokes the dichotomies of science versus art and rationality versus madness. Many of the villains in those comics make excellent foils and/or complements to Batman: the Penguin (one of the only flightless birds, while bats are the only flying mammals), the Catwoman (also a nocturnal creature), Ra's Al-Ghul (also believes in punishing the wicked), the Scarecrow (also uses terror as a weapon), etc.
To me Ras Al Ghul is second to the Joker as Batman’s greatest nemesis, he really is the total package. He can mostly match the dark knight in hand to hand combat, he’s very smart, he has access to almost unlimited resources, practically immortal and has a weakness for Batman that most of the rouges lack, his daughter talia. Batman’s son Damien is also part Al Ghul and in various media is shown to be mostly loyal to Ras’s teachings at least at the start which makes Batman have to keep a closer eye on his own offspring to not break the no kill rule Batman truly cares about. So in conclusion, Ras can still pulls strings even if he isn’t necessarily trying to.
I Personally think that Spider-Man should be Batman's Archenemy, now i know this Sounds Crazy but I Will Explain why 1. Bats and Spiders are Enemies in Real Life, so It would make sense that Batman and Spider-Man are Enemies 2. Bruce and Parker have similar Origins where a random low Criminal killed a Relative and that led them to become Batman & Spider-Man 3. Opposites, Batman is more of a Dark Intelligent Character, Spider-Man is more of a Light Hearted and fun Character 's only that they have Different
From what I remember from an article when Frank Gorshin passed on, Riddler was considered Batman's arch-nemesis on the Adam West tv series. So no argument there!
I honestly think scarecrow should be Batmans arch nemesis. It makes total sense due to their obsession of fear. I also do think that penguin should be there as well.
@@tyrellwilson9334 Exactly. And that is why Batman arguably has the best rogues gallery. I wish that there would a mini series that explores Batmans rivalry with one of his enemies in each issue. Like penguin, scarecrow, two face, poison ivy, mr. Freeze, etc.
I see Batman villains as testing a certain aspect of Batman’s character. Batman believes in justice and wants to bring Gotham back to order. This is Batman’s strongest attribute, and what Joker wants to change. This is why Joker is his arch-nemesis. Villains like Penguin and Black Mask do the same but at a much lower scale because they attack Batman’s want instead of his belief. Riddler meanwhile only tests his intelligence. Scarecrow tests his fear which is more powerful because Batman USES fear as a tool. Bane tests Batman’s strength. Mr Freeze tests his morals. And Joker tests Batman’s very core. Absolutely no hate because you have a very good point, I’m about to watch the other videos in one sitting and I cannot wait to watch Two-Face because I instantly can see why he could replace Joker as Batman’s arch nemesis. He tests Batman’s core and morals and is Batman’s greatest fear come to life. Great video
one reason why the Joker is the arch foe is because he is the first member of the rogue's gallery to ever appear, so its like a gradnfather clause type thing too
I say joker is the arch enemy because he killed Jason, crippled Barbara and is much more prominent. He’s used wonderfully in else worlds like injustice, the Batman who laughs and the dark knight returns. He also has much better stories such as mask of phantasm, killing joke, under the red hood and TDK. Riddler is very underrated tho imo. I just find the fact joker wants Batman to break his code and kill him very compelling as a story as no matter how much crap Batman takes, he will never cross that line.
As someone who likes The Riddler more than Joker this is certainly going to be interesting to watch. My problem with modern Batman is that the Joker has become so overused and tends to eclipse the other villains, it doesn't help that the writers make him this super great mastermind making every other villain that isn't him a loser or C tier villian. For a character like Batman who has a extense rogues gallery, sometimes it looks like his only villain is the Joker.
HERE HERE! Riddler suits Batman better. After all, who better a foe for a detective than someone who leaves a mystery to be solved? Though I will say for myself, he's tied with Penguin as who I think should be Batman's archenemy. Why? Well , it's kind of stupid, by I sometimes see their fights similar to Daredevil and Kingpin or, dare i say, Satam's Sonic and Robotnik. All three "bloated" villains have control over the city in some way, and the heroes are always mucking that up for them, causing the former to grow an obsessive hatred for them. Also, going back to that "Ridder WANTS to defeat Batman", he's not alone in that if he wins against the Bat, he'll finally have proven himself his superior. You've got Bane, already metioned Penguin, and even Scarecrow. Unlike Joker who sees "Batsy" as his unwilling playmate, the others see someone usurping their rightful titles.
Very nice argument. One reason that I think Joker is a better archenemy than Riddler, is visual contrast. The Joker is always smiling, while Batman is always serious. Joker is colorful, Batman is always in black. Would love to get some other arguments or even a full debate going down here...
I definitely believe that Riddler comes in second to being Batman’s greatest foe he is responsible for the creation of Hush and that entire story and even went to war with the Joker in the war of Jokes and Riddles
Come on, folks we all know who should REALLY be Batman’s nemesis... The Scarecrow. (Who’d you expect, Captain Stingaree?) Anyway, great video as usual. I do think that Joker should be Batman’s nemesis, but most major Batman villains could easily fit that role. And that ending blooper... I have no words... Prediction of what the Two-Face video will be like: 1. Because he’s Two-Face. 2. Because he’s a huge threat. 3. Because he’s Two-Face. 4. Because he’s tragic and has a personal connection to Batman. 5. Because he’s Two-Face. Etcetera etcetera. Also, WOW, how many new video series have you started with the Riddler? It seems you have a serious problem, good sir.
@@zemox2534 Fair point, but you never know, Mr. Rogues might have an addiction, since I don’t think he’s started a single series with a Two-Face video.
But when you were talking about the opposites of their characters, but there's even MORE than you mention. Especially if you look at their backgrounds! Bruce Wayne grew up RICH, with loving parents, who have died (something he's never wanted.) Edward Nigma grew up in POVERTY, in many tellings of his backstory, Edward grew up with abusive parents, who he obviously wanted to die (but we don't know if they ever did or not.) They've both also been canonically detectives at one point (when Edward reformed.) Also, other form of medias can make their dynamic SUPER interesting. Like the Arkham Games for example? Every time Riddler spoke about Batman, he sounded like he was talking about his FATHER, not Batman. Then Arkham Knight finally confirmed this, by having Riddler scream "Die father, er... Batman!" in the boss fight with him. Thus, in the Arkham series, one of Riddler's main reasons to hate Batman is not only his jealousy, but also because Batman reminds him TOO much of his own, abusive father. Final note, I'm just happy to see someone also thinks this. :) Good video!
Wanna talk to lonely pathetic nerds just like yourself? Join the Mr. Rogues Discord server: discord.gg/upTS5QvcVA
If the Riddler was batman's arch nemesis you will probably say that you are getting tired of him just like your saying every time you talk about the joker.
Probably.
@@mr.rogues4145 I think he'd definitely get tiring quicker, he's got a set gimmick while Joker is far more flexible.
False! Bane & the Joker are smarter than the Riddler! It’s always been that way, or the Riddler would just prove he’s smarter than Batman by learning the Joker’s birth name! Bane also out smarted Bruce to the point of just using an Arkham outbreak as a distraction to sneak into the Batcave & break his back!
False again! It was stated Detective Chimp is the World’s Greatest detective and Ra’s has stated Tim Drake has surpassed Bruce as a detective!
The Riddler was the first villain on the 60s Batman TV show. Frank Gorshin was perfect in the role and that's good enough for me.
All terrific points. It really is annoying how so many people are a bit too in love with the Joker at the expense of everyone else.
Hopefully this upcoming Batman movie gives some much needed spotlight to the awesomeness that is Edward Nygma.
Yeah, there's other villains than just the Joker. Batman's got a whole toy box of villains.
Ithink the real issue was how the Arkham Games, specifically, allowed Joker to take over the plot too much, to the point where he supplants the second game's ACTUAL main villain (as well as in Origins) and eveen when he's DEAD he STILL takes up the plot more than the actual main villain of Arkham Knight.
We probably wouldn't be so burnt out on him if the games and other media weren't so obsessed with him
@@sarafontanini7051 No denying the Joker's place in Knight was completely pointless. All he does is annoy the fudge out of the player for the whole game. Wonder how many others raced through the main story on a playthrough, JUST to shut him up?
Origins. While the story of Batman's first encounter with Joker shouldn't have been shoehorned into this one, I do enjoy the game regardless. Black Mask or Penguin should've been the main villains, though.
City... Joker's role in this one's smaller than the others. But... the whole subplot about him trying to find a cure for Titan, not to mention him randomly calling you just to annoy you - completely pointless. Substitute Joker's territory for Black Mask or Ventriloquist's empires, maybe explain Joker's death by having Penguin succeed on putting him and Harley on display, then Joker starts talking to Bats during the museum infiltration, and it annoys Penguin so much that he just shoots him. That would make City so much better. (Besides, Strange and Ra's are the focus in City, not Joker, so it wouldn't be a total waste to remove him)
Asylum. I will admit, Scarecrow and Ivy steal the show in this one, and while Joker's plan does fuel the plot, i'm sure Ivy would've overshadowed him in the Gotham Gazette the following morning. Truth be told, I will concede Joker was... tolerable... in this one.
Do bare in mind these are just my opinions.
@@adamcronchey7264 honestly it never really felt liek Strange was the big bad to me. Sure it STARTS with him being the main threat but when you look at it, Joker gets far more screentime than him and more of the plot is based around thwarting Joker's plan to poison otham, while Strange's plan is left in the background until he comes up again only to die anticlimatically.
it is telling to me at least that the finale has nothing to do with Strange, Ra's or even Arkham City itself, but instead batman and Joker and how the Joker finally fucking dies.
1:20 - Chapter 1 - The smartest
2:05 - Chapter 2 - Goes straight to bats
2:40 - Chapter 3 - Actually wants to defeat batman
3:40 - Chapter 4 - A bigger threat
4:40 - Chapter 5 - Opposites attract
The next video should be Why TWO-FACE is the greatest Batman villain. Come on Rogues you know you want to do it. Edit: I made this comment before I saw the entire video lol.
I guess this would be his topic on why this villain should be the greatest of the hero
Don't forget Bane!!
While I think their shared intellect is the most obvious connection, I also like to think of Batman and Riddler as men both plagued by obsession. Batman by his one-man war on crime, and the Riddler by his quest to prove his genius and worth. The sad truth is that because of Riddler's more dangerous obsession, it's lead him to be a lonely unloved narcissist, something Batman might inch closer to any time he neglects his family or life as Bruce in favor of his mission.
I’d love to see Riddler go up against Luthor at some point. I mean if he could outdo the smartest man on the planet, then he automatically is smarter than number 2 (at least according to Ozymandius’ ranking)
Yeah because who is smarter
What about Mr Terrific? They always say he is the third smartest man.
I wonder why they never put him in Crisis events.
@@lewisaino who?
@@srstriker6420 Riddler, heck he could have helped defeat Darkseid by breaking Mad Hatter's mindcontrol hats like Dr Silvana did.
I would like to see a Riddler ves Penguin Battle. Pengee has been compared to Bat's Intellect before too. At one point they tried to make Pengee look like a mirror of Bruce, what if kind of thing...
Also they’re like Eliot Ness and Al Capone from the Untouchables
Gotham Season 3’s final 3-4 episodes would be what you’re looking for.
@@darkfire7660 I prefer my Penguin to be less Psycho to be honest.
The Riddler is my favorite Batman villain because no other villain brings out the detective element of Batman quite like he does. For a character called "the world's greatest detective" a great deal of Batman's best stories aren't all that full of mystery. His villains leave calling cards and they have very clear motives: its almost never too difficult to determine who does what and why. And the riddler SORT of has this going for him too, but when his gimmick is to keep you guessing it inherently makes his stories less predictable.
5:13 In one of his tapes in Arkham Knight during the villains meeting Scarecrow organised Riddler accused Scarecrow of playing to his ego then claimed he didn't have one. He's so egotistical that he doesn't even think he is all evidence to the contrary.
7:15 Eminem has been real quiet since this dropped
**Mom's spaghetti intensifies**
Lmao
I honestly agree. It is more compelling that Riddler want to win and don’t waste money and resources. There could be a story of Riddler finally defeating Batman and living in a world without Batman. I can’t believe he went from fighting Joker in a war to being a c list villain. Thanks DC Writers.
Honestly I can't believe DC believes he's a C tier villian.
@@Purified_Water_Enjoyer Same with Scarecrow. It's like any character that's not Joker is a B to C tier villain to DC
@@sorandomandquirky9425 Yeah he's under rated as hell.
That's modern DC for you, if is not the Joker is a c tier villain.
@@redchariot4006 Something tells me I should go into comic book writing. Then we can get good depictions of the REALLY good rogues. Penguin, Riddler, Scarecrow, Two Face, Clayface (well, i'm hardly likely to exclude my favourite Batman villain, aren't i?) and perhaps Jervis... could do with some proper respect these days. Not to mention Joker just might get some competition for his title from newcomer Saber Wolf...
It like Spiderman case
1 Joker (green goblin): caos and order archnemesis, they attack the morality of the hero
2 Riddler (Doc oct): the second place, they have a lot of respect of each other, they attack the mind of the hero
3. Scarecrow(Venom) Similar traits of the hero like both Batman and Scarecrow using fear
@@HorrorCritical Scarecrow and Carnage... Venom is a anti hero
@@felixleidig8307 Venom was first a villain for Spiderman
@@HorrorCritical i know im not a random personj who talks dummy stuff,.. But he is gernally more asociated with being a antihero and Canrage is way more scary
@@felixleidig8307 I see why, both Scarecrow and Carnage can be scary. But I say Carnage is more of related to Bane since both Carnage and Bane can actually break the hero
I've always loved batman villains like the penguin he's not that goofy as people think I especially prefer the master criminal then gangster
I feel like I'm in the minority around here when I say I think it's good to have him be a gangster. Batman has enough of master criminals in his rogues gallery.
True but there's plenty of golden age gangsters they could bring back and improve on
@@jakegooding8996 Why do that when Penguin's better? A far better choice for Gotham's kingpin then some random mobsters.
Yeah because I always felt that Batman and Penguin should be like Eliot Ness and Al Capone from the Untouchables
Maybe penguin could still be a gangster but maybe he could have some one pull off a heist for him every now and then and he could also be a fence buying stolen goods maybe he could even get his hands dirty and pull off a heist himself due to his connections it could be hard for batman to prove it was him best of both worlds I suppose
The riddler will gain popularity because of the new batman movie, I love it! He is my favorite villain and I hate the fact that a big part of the peoples think that he is pathetic, not smart or not good as joker
The Riddler is do under rated as a villian and is the #1 villian in my opinion. Dc needs to stop the harley quinn ( over rated as hell ) and joker stories. And focus on other villans like Riddler. Now n days people see him as a joke. He is so interesting as a character and it's sad that DC dose not see his potential. Call be bias but I feel the Riddler could be one of DC most popular character. If they actually went outside their confort zone and I hope the Batman movie will reveal it to them.
It ain't overrated bro I get u want riddler me to but don't disrespect
@@elewoo7131 harley quinn is definetly overrated as hell
The Riddler in the batman movie is deadly, smart, and badass.
Rogues out here spreading the TRUTH
Agreed
How true. How very true indeed.
I am sick and tired of the joker Batman has lots of great villains Including penguin, riddler, two face, clayface, scarecrow, poison ivy mr freeze, Hugo strange and Ras al ghul. Unfortunately Dc only uses Joker and Bane.
No he spoke falsehood. The Riddler has nothing on me.
@@Dawn_Of_Justice Riddler: Lies! he is just praising me like a guy in church. For I Edward nygma, The Riddler am true greatest criminal mind in gotham.
I've been saying this for YEARS! And I get the same "Heresy! Blasphemy!" pointed fingers. They both utalize their intellects to predict several moves ahead of one another.
I gotta admit you made some great points here. This is a really interesting concept and I would love to see you make the case for Pengy, Two-Face(obviously, we all know that will come when the series is well-received) or maybe even Hugo Strange.
Do not forget Scarecrow.
@@zemox2534 Scarecrow is cool, but he's mostly wasted potential and his stories usually have him as a plot device.
@@entertainmenttime9978 Not his fault. The writers are too lazy to think of anything more creative to do with him.
Heck, I'd throw in the likes of Black Mask on that list too.
I think the Riddler is like a detective turned evil - if he wasn't committing elaborate crimes he could just as easily be solving them - so he and Batman are perfect rivals in that respect.
This
I beleive he actually did reform for a time and act as a detective who helped batman out...and then he went back to being evil
I’m happy they’re giving Crane a run right now, but yes, riddler is the best!!
I would argue that the Riddler WAS the arch nemesis of Batman in the '66 TV series.
I hope that they use the Riddler’s green suit and bowler hat in the Matt Reeves’s Batman movie but I have my doubts.
Totally agree, I feel like movies have overhyped the character and they make him out to be the supreme villain. But really riddler, two-face, or I could argue scarecrow should be his arch nemesis. I feel we get average stories for most rogues and then for joker he appears in every damn comic! Love your channel by the way!!!
Years ago it used to be that Joker and the other villains were on equal footing. The DCAU didn't overuse him and gave every villain their fair share of screentime. As good as it was I think the success of The Dark Knight and Ledger's Joker sent the wrong message to DC's comic writers, filmmakers, TV producers, game developers, cartoon makers and the rest. It made them think Joker had to be in or be the main villain of almost everything Batman related when he doesn't.
@@Xehanort10 All of what you said! The Joker movie just made his over exposure in the comics even worse. It’s the exact same problem with the green Goblin in Spider-Man.
@@Dhampir101980 The Joker may be the most well known Batman villain but he's not the only one. There are plenty of others who deserve more exposure like Two Face, Penguin, Scarecrow, Riddler, Mr Freeze, Clayface, Poison Ivy, Professor Pyg and the like. Freeze and Ivy in particular deserve better live action film versions to make up for Batman & Robin.
They should kill joker off and give Batman a new arch nemesis
@@tylerjones7592 yeah...Right. As if that would ever happen. And even if it did, he would only be “Dead” for 5 years max
Great video! While I think The Joker should still be Batman’s arch-nemesis, villains like The Riddler, Penguin, Two-Face, Scarecrow, and Bane are still great arch-enemies. And they deserve to be treated as such more often in the comics. Heck, it wouldn’t hurt to see a resurgence in Poison Ivy as a major villainess again.
2:54 "He wants nothing but to be rid of Batman Forever."
I'm not suprised
I think this new movie is going to skyrocket Riddlers popularity.
But, one point I think against Riddler is how difficult it can be to write his stories. This was the case in tas, his puzzles are difficult to come up with. Meanwhile joker stories could be made a dime a dozen because sometimes a simple pun is all he needs to start a caper
Together with the fact that almost everyone loves de Joker, that's why they write so much about him
Yeah I agree about the Riddler. If Batman is Sherlock Holmes than Riddler is his Moriarty. I’ll give the New 52 credit credit for making The Riddler a complete badass with Zero Year. Even having Batman admit the one villain he wishes he’d killed was NOT Joker, but Riddler.
Well this is a new topic. I like it. And I've always been more of a fan of Riddler more than Joker.
Hopefully, Paul Dano`s darker,complex,more Zodiac killer-esque take on Riddler finally gets our dear Mr. Nashton the respect he deserves from non-Comic readers!
You might want to consider doing this style for other rogues galleries. A video about why Brainiac should be Superman's nemesis as opposed to Luthor could be enlightening.
I kind of feel like Mongul should be Superman's arch nemesis
@@wowisntitanamazinglyamazin9550 But what has Mongul done to Superman that would make their rivalry personal on both sides? That's the key part of an arch enemy, it's got to be personal on both sides. Brainiac shrank Kandor, AND was responsible for the destruction of Krypton in some continuities. That's why he'd work better than Luthor as the nemesis.
With that said, you are entitled to your opinion just as much as I am to mine. Sorry if I upset you in any way.
That outtake at the end was beautiful. So beautiful that I will now listen to it again.
Also, great video! Really interesting concept for a series! I'd imagine somewhere down the line Scarecrow may be a talking point here..
Make a ranking characters of Batman in injustice games, I want more videos about Batman games from you
I was told this people write the joker cause he’s easy to write, people don’t normally write the riddler cause you have to work for it
Hush is a great showcase of what The Riddler is capable of as a big bad villain, especially since for the first time ever he actually HIDES the fact he's the mastermind for a good long while. Plus in his debut his 'riddles' were ALSO deadly SAW-style traps.
sadly, it seems most writers forget this and seem to think he's a joke villain, and when he is allowe to be threatening they don't capitalise on it too much.
You made really excellent points here. Riddler definitely has a ton of potential to be Batman's ultimate rival, in fact there is already sort of a rivalry in there. If only it was boosted more for lack of better words. Im glad you're giving the spotlight to some of these other villians. What was known as the greatest rogues gallery in comic books and yet in recent years they are hardly utilize to their best. From games, to live action, to even animated Batman movies, even if Joker isn't the main bad guy (which he usually is) he'll make some sort of significant cameo for the most part. While other villians will be beat in like a few minutes in a movie. It would be a neat change up to have a plot solely focus around another rogue that isn't Joker or Harley Quinn. But since they are so big that's not going to be as common place. I mean, could you imagine any other Batman villian getting their own film or series besides those two? Not likely at all, who knows if it would work anyways
Thank you for making a video talking about reasons for why The Riddler should or could be Batman's arch nemesis.
The fact that Riddler found out who Batman was in HUSH and Bruce still beat him to me speaks volumes about their rivalry imo.
I've always said that in the nineties films, the villain actors should have been the exact opposite.
Nicholson's Joker: makes a few low key sarcastic observations, wears a couple costumes-- is otherwise very mysterious.
Carrey's Riddler: Sends Bruce Wayne a couple of riddles-- that are MUCH MORE like clownish party invitations-- but otherwise runs around like a refugee from clown school, being basically a Looney Tunes neon bozo! I'm tellin' you, somethin's ALWAYS been weird about this!
Yeah the Burton / Schumacher films tended to mix up the villains with Joker-lite personalities and other Gotham rogue personalities into the mix as opposed to, you know, just simply sticking to their selected character traits. Jim Carrey's Riddler was especially Joker-esque, along with a dose of Mad Hatter's BTAS origins and mind control schtick. Ironically enough, Jack Nicholson's Joker came across to me as the most subtle and less ridiculous off the bad guys in that quadrilogy.. and it's supposed to be the Joker for Christ's sake lmao.
Hot take: Riddler's plan in the movie actually fits in with Riddler's motives, as he's actively stealing information from people's minds in order to have ALL he knowledge in gotham and prove he's smarter than everyone, while also being insanely jealous of Bruce Wayne for getting all the attention while nobody looks at him prior to his rise to villainy.
I honestly think The Joker has met his quota. We should give other villains the time to shine
Awesome video Mr.Rogues, although the whole concept of Batman and Riddler being opposite can be apply to all Batman rogues. One the reason why Batman villain are the best rogues gallery in my opinion is because if analized, most of them are colorfull, have mental issues and act as a counterpoint to Batman's personality traits, almost like a representation of what he is or could become. For exemple: Riddler represent Batman intellect and what he could become if he let his mission becomes a compulsion, Mr Freeze represents Batman's lost and desire for vengence and what he could become if he decided to use brutal questionable methods to achive his , Joker represents the total lost of logic in the world and what Batman could become if he gave up trying to make sense of the world, beliving that everything is just a "joke".
Basically, every time Batman fights against one of his rogues, he is not fighting just a villain, he is fighting against a representation of one of his inner demons, a dark reflection of himself.
I agree with you on everything I think there's just one problem regarding riddler. I don't think he was created early enough. Riddler was only introduced during 1948 while villains like two-face, penguin, scarecrow, and joker were introduced earlier on. If riddler was introduced earlier I think he would have won the top spot. I just think longevity plays a big part of this.
I agree, it's just that people have so much trouble doing the Riddler right and making him seem as smart as he should be.
I agree. When I play Batman Arkham games I love solving riddlers puzzles and traps, collecting all his trophys
Finally someone who's brave enough to say joker really shouldn't be batman's arch nemesis, and their are several rogues who would fit the role better.
Honestly, even Man-Bat would be an ideal Arch nemesis as opposed to the Joker these days. People are starting to get sick of the character, since he has been shoved down our throats for too long, alienating huge potential from others.
Joker should definitely be the main villain but agreed that he’s shoved down our throats
I think a large part of why Joker is more popular are the actors who played him. Cesar Romero, Jack Nicholson, Mark Hamill, Heath Ledger, and Joaquin Phoenix.
I love this video so much. I will never wrap my mind around why people consider Joker intelligent? Because of his unpredictability? It's really sad how other (better) villains suffer because of Joker's popularity.
The Joker actually IS pretty smart, after all his famous Joker Toxin is an invention of his, and even when he's spontaneous he's capable of coming up with plans and traps, it's just a lot of time his schemes are left to be spontaneous rather than long term plans.
Yes, Joker is no match for Eddie or Penguin in smarts. Or Bats, for that matter, more to the point of the video.
Better villains? That’s pretty subjective. Riddler to me is a vastly inferior to many other villains especially to the Joker.
I think Killer Croc should be Batman’s arch nemesis
Rogues since your birthday is on 31st March(if I am correct) then Happy Birthday in advance and by the way amazing video.They really should make him an arch nemesis.
Edit : Sorry Rogues,I realised your birthday was on 19th March ,I am extremely sorry sir for the wrong date Belated Happy Birthday from me .
Lol, it was on the 20th march. But thanks.
You're Welcome Rogues
I'm so burned out on Joker that I welcome emphasis put on the other rogues as Batman's arch nemesis. When was the last good story where all the villains tried to prove they were Batman's arch enemy, but there was no clear answer to the question? And I mean from the Rogues you would expect - Riddler, Penguin, Two-Face, etc. Ras Al Ghul would fit into the category of an arch enemy, but he doesn't have the type of ego for that type of story
Been missing your videos! Love your work!!
I'm so glad you're back Mr. Rogues. Great video. I would love a video of the reasons Maxi Zeus should be Batman's arch enemy. If anyone can make the case it's you.
Yeah as long as the Joker's around no-one can outshine him lmao but other Batman villians do deserve more of the spotlight
Another fantastic video!
The Batman movie is good proof to support this
THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING ALL THIS TIME XD
Love your content. Always happy to have you back Mr. Rogues
Okay this video is one of the best! It describes everything so well.
Scarecrow could be good as an arch nemesis for batman. An aspect of batman is he is a master of fear. The two masters of fear being rivals is an intresting idea. He also works as a dark reflection of batman.
In my opinion, I've always thought Bane should've been Batman's arch rival because he was both a physically skilled, venom aside, and intellectual threat while having a deep respect for Batman and vice versa. They're like a mirror image of one another with Bane being an example of what Batman could've been if he had been raised in the troubling conditions and devoid of any advice from people like Alfred, becoming more cold and ruthless as a result, even though Bane does have a moral compass. Although this is also the case for a character like Ra's Al Ghul, the reason for his continual existence makes him overpowered, in addition to his skills and resources,which makes him a better event high stakes villain but probably a less consistent archenemy. But don't take my word for it :)
Tbh, I wholeheartedly agree with you on Bane. The guy can easily be established as A-tier of the rogues gallery when executed carefully, a complex force to be reckoned with. Along with excellent writing and love from the original character's source material, Bane would become a top billing, iconic standout (next to Catwoman and Joker) in an already iconic list of colourful supervillains in Gotham City. Don't get me wrong, he's already rest assured a comfortable seat in pop culture history, The Dark Knight Rises, Arkham Origins and the Knightfall story arc comes to mind, yet soo much more can be utilised.
I always find it funny how often videos on the Riddler begin with "I know its unpopular, but the Riddler is my favorite villain." I think he is perceived to be less popular than he is.
As for who should be the arch-nemesis, I prefer it when there is debate between 3 or 4 candidates. I think it allows more themes to be explored. It can be frustrating when there is a theme that is present in the background for a character and many of his rogues, but it gets neglected because it isn't present in the arch-nemesis.
You should make one about joker just to be redundant. Maybe even make one that’s like “why joker is Batman’s greatest enemy” and “why joker isn’t Batman’s greatest enemy”
My reason: Eddie pulled off one of the best Batman stories that were still having ramifications recently (Hush), while also painting a target on his back for other Bat-Rogues (and besides being roughed up, he's avoided real consequences)
I've always enjoyed the Riddler far more than the Joker. I am also utterly exhausted with Joker and Harley Quinn showing up so much. I simply don't find them that interesting and rely way to heavily on plot armor to not get steamrolled by smart, stronger, and better equipped characters.
I get it, Batman won't kill them but there is no reason Bane wouldn't have turned him into a pretzel or Ra's Al Ghul put a bullet or knife through him or a random Arkham guard blowing his head off. Granted, part of that is due to comics rules, but its so grating when the Joker gets "as crazy as the plot calls for" and then does...whatever the plot calls for...because crazy.
TLDR: Joker is boring at this point, the others are more intriguing.
2:55 "The Riddler wants to be rid of Batman Forever." and the Riddler was in...Batman Forever! Ha!
Been missing your videos lately
Everyone: Batman has all the best villains.
Me: Really? I thought The Joker was Batman's only villain.
reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
@@mr.rogues4145 I was just kidding. I'm just saying that Batman has all these unique and interesting villains like Two-Face, Scarecrow, and Poison Ivy, and yet most major storylines center on Joker. I'm just tired of him is all.
i like to think that the Riddler thinks he is batman's arch nemesis so he is envious of joker and joker doesn't care about being batman's arch nemesis and would rather be his lover which is why he is so jealous of cat woman because she gets all of the attention i mean he straight up says he is in love with batman multiple times plus comics like going sane show us joker cant exist without batman but i also think eddy would quit being Riddler out of boredom because what's the point its kind of like how Stan lee said doc ock is Spiderman's arch nemesis but green goblin is peter parkers arch nemesis batman is Riddler's arch foe joker is batman's and batman is jokers best friend and or lover depending on your interpretation of their relationship
Another reason why Riddler should be the arch for of Batman is the fact that he makes for a better rival. When he became a PI, he essentially became a version of Batman who cashed in on his notoriety and becomes a more public "hero ".
Granted he is doing it for the fame and attention but this change altered the dynamic between himself and Bats. He served as a rival detective and competed with Batman to solve crimes.
His run as a detective also revealed a more complex side to him. True, he was always complexed, but his time as a detective revealed a new Side to him. While there were days where he missed his criminal career, Edward actually seemed to enjoy playing the good guy even if it did piss off some of his old associates. Watching him occasionally struggle with the temptation to go back to crime was fun to watch. But of course DC comics ruined his arc when they made him go back to being a villain. Completely out of no where.
riddler could be it i want him be it someday and i hope other villains get a shot
Yeah DC needs to step outside their confort zone and give other villans a try.
Yeah the joker is my favorite Batman villain but he works best when he’s used to mix things up for Batman. Batman’s a detective who goes up against more predictable villains such as mobsters, thieves and such, while joker’s an anarchist who’s methods counter Batman’s meticulous nature; this works great but this isn’t the only dynamic that works.
4:14
Not really. That Joker said that he just does things without putting much thought into them.
We can't bust heads like we used to, but we have our ways. One trick is to tell 'em stories that don't go anywhere - like the time I caught the ferry over to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for my shoe, so, I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. Give me five bees for a quarter, you'd say.
Now where were we? Oh yeah: the important thing was I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn't have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...
Next video: Why Mr. Rogue should be Batman's Arch Nemesis.
It's been forever since u posted I'm so glad you're back ❣️
I think the people behind Batman 66 were far more fascinated by the possibilities of the Riddler. But, then, the TV shows really MADE Riddler. He was just a third-class villain until Frank Gorshin made him into a parody of Kirk Douglas, and that interpretation, that style, that potential, guided him into the comics as well.
Then, when Batman's villains got real dark in the 80s, the Riddler was left behind. That interpretation of Riddler could never truly go overboard like Joker did. And so, he fell back into third-class villainy and was only brought out when they basically had him taken over by a demon or something like that.
Nobody really knew what to do with Riddler until BTAS, which played him as someone who MUST prove he is the smartest man in the room, even smarter than Batman. But it never works because Batman can usually outthink Riddler eventually. Making him a master of virtual reality was just another riddle to figure out, and, really, it's something that the Joker can never do. Joker doesn't have the patience, and it's not his style anyway. This is just another way Riddler can prove he's the smartest man in the room.
My favorite moment involving Riddler comes at the end of the Hush storyline when Riddler reveals that he knows Batman's identity, which he calls Gotham City's greatest riddle. Riddler brags, "And now the world is my oyster, right, BRUCE?!"
Batman then asks, "What time is it when an elephant sits on a fence?" Riddler quickly answers, "Time to get a new fence. Everyone knows that one - it's worthless."
Batman responds, "That's right. A riddle everyone knows the answer to IS worthless. And that's why I have nothing to fear from you. YOU can't tell anyone. Because if everyone knows, then you have nothing." Riddler thinks about this, but can't say a word, because Batman is correct. Once again, Riddler is defeated simply because he can do NOTHING.
Riddler, in the end, has a lot of potential, and he COULD be the greatest villain in Gotham. But in the end, his main motivation is to be the smartest in the room, not to rob a bank, commit massive crimes, or take over the world. The Riddler really has nothing more than that.
And he can never be the smartest in the room while Batman remains alive. THAT is why Riddler hates Batman even more than the rest of Batman's Rogues' Gallery. Each of Batman's villains has his own motives to get ahead. The Riddler's is simple: he wants to be the best. And he can never be the best with Batman around. And that's why he will always fail.
Th hush storyline has its issues (its a bit too much of a 'batman fights ALL the villains' type story than a connected narrative, and while I have no issue with Hush himself there are a few who find his motives and origin ridiculous, even though there are far worse examples of "evil mirrors to batman" like Prometheus) but what it IS good about is being a Riddler story. Not a Joker plot, and not even a Hush plot. The entire thing is RIDDLER'S scheme, and the way it ends is fantastic.
@@sarafontanini7051 Agreed. The more they used Hush after this story, you realized how nothing the character really is. Yes, Hush is Riddler's story, and that was great.
In a way Zsasz is also a contender cuz he literally has the soul goal of trying to kill innocence, and Batman has the soul goal of saving innocence
It seems like all the villains are really an aspect of Batman's unconscious or psyche. The Joker represents Bruce's want to lash out at the world violently because of his trauma. Strange is Bruce's deep need to understand the human mind. Riddler is Bruce's love of detective work and finding clues. Bane is Bruce coming out of the shadows filled with power and rage. Scarecrow is Bruce's use of fear like you said. The Ventriloquist is Bruce's split between his everyday business man philanthropist and his violent avenger or the calm and chaotic justice portion of his brain. Man Bat is pretty obvious. The Mad Hatter's mind control could be a commentary on Bruce's family of other crime fighters that he has groomed since childhood think like them mentally and devote their lives to his cause and not really live out their own lives they would have if they hadn't met him. Two Face again the split personality which is a them in all of his villains and Bruce himself. Hush is the Anti-Christ version of Bruce and Batman. Ra's is Bruce if he gave in and took his goals too far.
Other reasons why the Riddler should be Batman's archenemy: his motivation and morality. The only thing that he wants, is to prove that he is the best. He doesn't have a cause like Poison Ivy. he doesn't care about money and power like The Penguin. He just thinks that the only way to have value, is to prove that you are the best, and for everyone to know it. He is the embodiment of the idea that all men are not created equal, that its both right and good for the intellectually superior to trample on others to prove their superiority. But Batman is the embodiment of the idea that its wrong for the strong and cunning to prey on the weak and the simple. The Joker perceives reality differently than the other characters because of his super-sanity. He doesn't so much oppose Batman's morality as he does bypass it. The Riddler operates on the same plane as Batman mentally. But, he goes in the opposite direction. He perceives the same reality as The Bat. But he has the opposite morality. He is more of a moral opponent to Batman than the Joker is.
I think Scarecrow should have been the Batman archenemy... Maybe they would have gave him better stories like that
To me, the Joker works perfectly as Batman's greatest foe. Not only is he a "light devil" to Batman's "dark angel," as you pointed out, but Batman is basically an animal while the Joker is a clown - and this evokes the dichotomies of science versus art and rationality versus madness.
Many of the villains in those comics make excellent foils and/or complements to Batman: the Penguin (one of the only flightless birds, while bats are the only flying mammals), the Catwoman (also a nocturnal creature), Ra's Al-Ghul (also believes in punishing the wicked), the Scarecrow (also uses terror as a weapon), etc.
To me Ras Al Ghul is second to the Joker as Batman’s greatest nemesis, he really is the total package. He can mostly match the dark knight in hand to hand combat, he’s very smart, he has access to almost unlimited resources, practically immortal and has a weakness for Batman that most of the rouges lack, his daughter talia. Batman’s son Damien is also part Al Ghul and in various media is shown to be mostly loyal to Ras’s teachings at least at the start which makes Batman have to keep a closer eye on his own offspring to not break the no kill rule Batman truly cares about. So in conclusion, Ras can still pulls strings even if he isn’t necessarily trying to.
I Personally think that Spider-Man should be Batman's Archenemy, now i know this Sounds Crazy but I Will Explain why
1. Bats and Spiders are Enemies in Real Life, so It would make sense that Batman and Spider-Man are Enemies
2. Bruce and Parker have similar Origins where a random low Criminal killed a Relative and that led them to become Batman & Spider-Man
3. Opposites, Batman is more of a Dark Intelligent Character, Spider-Man is more of a Light Hearted and fun Character
's only that they have Different
From what I remember from an article when Frank Gorshin passed on, Riddler was considered Batman's arch-nemesis on the Adam West tv series. So no argument there!
I honestly think scarecrow should be Batmans arch nemesis. It makes total sense due to their obsession of fear. I also do think that penguin should be there as well.
@@tyrellwilson9334 Exactly. And that is why Batman arguably has the best rogues gallery. I wish that there would a mini series that explores Batmans rivalry with one of his enemies in each issue. Like penguin, scarecrow, two face, poison ivy, mr. Freeze, etc.
I see Batman villains as testing a certain aspect of Batman’s character. Batman believes in justice and wants to bring Gotham back to order. This is Batman’s strongest attribute, and what Joker wants to change. This is why Joker is his arch-nemesis. Villains like Penguin and Black Mask do the same but at a much lower scale because they attack Batman’s want instead of his belief. Riddler meanwhile only tests his intelligence. Scarecrow tests his fear which is more powerful because Batman USES fear as a tool. Bane tests Batman’s strength. Mr Freeze tests his morals. And Joker tests Batman’s very core.
Absolutely no hate because you have a very good point, I’m about to watch the other videos in one sitting and I cannot wait to watch Two-Face because I instantly can see why he could replace Joker as Batman’s arch nemesis. He tests Batman’s core and morals and is Batman’s greatest fear come to life. Great video
Makes perfect sence to me because one can make a great detective/ thriller story with the Riddler. Hope they won't mess it up in a new movie!
one reason why the Joker is the arch foe is because he is the first member of the rogue's gallery to ever appear, so its like a gradnfather clause type thing too
Are we forgetting about Hugo Strange? 😉
And Catwoman appeared at the same time as Joker.
@@mr.rogues4145 well I dunno when they first appeared so my apologoies on my lack of comic knowledge
Oh this..
This is beautiful.
Great analysis.
I 100% agree with this
I say joker is the arch enemy because he killed Jason, crippled Barbara and is much more prominent. He’s used wonderfully in else worlds like injustice, the Batman who laughs and the dark knight returns. He also has much better stories such as mask of phantasm, killing joke, under the red hood and TDK. Riddler is very underrated tho imo. I just find the fact joker wants Batman to break his code and kill him very compelling as a story as no matter how much crap Batman takes, he will never cross that line.
As someone who likes The Riddler more than Joker this is certainly going to be interesting to watch. My problem with modern Batman is that the Joker has become so overused and tends to eclipse the other villains, it doesn't help that the writers make him this super great mastermind making every other villain that isn't him a loser or C tier villian. For a character like Batman who has a extense rogues gallery, sometimes it looks like his only villain is the Joker.
I completely agree with you, Rogues
HERE HERE! Riddler suits Batman better. After all, who better a foe for a detective than someone who leaves a mystery to be solved?
Though I will say for myself, he's tied with Penguin as who I think should be Batman's archenemy. Why? Well , it's kind of stupid, by I sometimes see their fights similar to Daredevil and Kingpin or, dare i say, Satam's Sonic and Robotnik. All three "bloated" villains have control over the city in some way, and the heroes are always mucking that up for them, causing the former to grow an obsessive hatred for them.
Also, going back to that "Ridder WANTS to defeat Batman", he's not alone in that if he wins against the Bat, he'll finally have proven himself his superior. You've got Bane, already metioned Penguin, and even Scarecrow. Unlike Joker who sees "Batsy" as his unwilling playmate, the others see someone usurping their rightful titles.
Am I the only one who would like to see "Why Scarecrow Should be Batman's Arch-Nemesis"?
You most certainly are not. I would also like to see such a video, as would fellow die hard Scarecrow fans.
Scarecrow and Clayface are my fave underrated Batman villains
@@sarafontanini7051 The latter of whom REALLY needs more attention. Clayface in a future Suicide Squad or Batfleck timeline movie, anyone?
Very nice argument. One reason that I think Joker is a better archenemy than Riddler, is visual contrast. The Joker is always smiling, while Batman is always serious. Joker is colorful, Batman is always in black. Would love to get some other arguments or even a full debate going down here...
6:30 nice picture
I definitely believe that Riddler comes in second to being Batman’s greatest foe he is responsible for the creation of Hush and that entire story and even went to war with the Joker in the war of Jokes and Riddles
Come on, folks we all know who should REALLY be Batman’s nemesis...
The Scarecrow.
(Who’d you expect, Captain Stingaree?)
Anyway, great video as usual. I do think that Joker should be Batman’s nemesis, but most major Batman villains could easily fit that role.
And that ending blooper... I have no words...
Prediction of what the Two-Face video will be like:
1. Because he’s Two-Face.
2. Because he’s a huge threat.
3. Because he’s Two-Face.
4. Because he’s tragic and has a personal connection to Batman.
5. Because he’s Two-Face.
Etcetera etcetera.
Also, WOW, how many new video series have you started with the Riddler? It seems you have a serious problem, good sir.
Nah, Scarecrow shouldn't be the main villain. Should be Crazy Quilt
Riddler is an awesome foe. Can you blame Rogued for starting each new series with Edward?
@@sorandomandquirky9425 Crazy Quilt? Yeah, he’s awesome, but I’d say he’s Brainiac to Batman’s TRUE Lex Luthor...
Condiment King!!! (Plays dramatic music)
@@zemox2534 Fair point, but you never know, Mr. Rogues might have an addiction, since I don’t think he’s started a single series with a Two-Face video.
@@sorandomandquirky9425 We all know Batman's TRUE nemesis is his equal in flight, intellect and brawl.. and that man would be Kite-Man. Hell Yeah.
But when you were talking about the opposites of their characters, but there's even MORE than you mention. Especially if you look at their backgrounds! Bruce Wayne grew up RICH, with loving parents, who have died (something he's never wanted.) Edward Nigma grew up in POVERTY, in many tellings of his backstory, Edward grew up with abusive parents, who he obviously wanted to die (but we don't know if they ever did or not.) They've both also been canonically detectives at one point (when Edward reformed.)
Also, other form of medias can make their dynamic SUPER interesting. Like the Arkham Games for example? Every time Riddler spoke about Batman, he sounded like he was talking about his FATHER, not Batman. Then Arkham Knight finally confirmed this, by having Riddler scream "Die father, er... Batman!" in the boss fight with him. Thus, in the Arkham series, one of Riddler's main reasons to hate Batman is not only his jealousy, but also because Batman reminds him TOO much of his own, abusive father.
Final note, I'm just happy to see someone also thinks this. :) Good video!