As a miniature enthusiast, I often buy board games for the miniatures. $200 for a boardgame with 64 miniatures means $3.13 a mini. The average mini is $5-$10 a piece and 120mm is easily $30. This is actually a steal for me.
See? Good point!! You are exactly right! Whoever this dude was that gave Sandy a hard time had no idea what the hell he was talking about. I want this game myself, now.
It's an open market. You can charge whatever you want to sustain a business. I suspect that person wanted you to join their pity party and give them a discount.
There are games out there that I would like to have, but for Q reason or another, cant fit imto my budget, so i just dont buy them, but i wouldn't go to comic con and berate the designer over the price. Thats just silly.
I love eldritch horror. But it hardly ever gets to the table. However, Risk strike, vaalbara, radlands, god of war and gears of war, star wars deck building games, all pack massive value in a small box and they get out to the table quickly easily without too complex rules. Way more playability value in small box games. Jason Glover is a genius with Tim helm and gate_gates and other mint tin games. Tristan hall with hall or nothing games. All superb. 👌👍
I think veilwraith would particularly appeal to Lovecraft fans. It's a solo game but my partner and I still play it together and just discuss strategies. If you get the expansion pack there's loads of replayability. And then there's the artwork. Most excellent 👌 👏 👍.
I spent $1000 for Planet Apocalypse, when it turns up one day that will be my luxury item. Glad to see you are posting videos again and hope it all goes good with Quimbley’s and one day Planet Apocalypse will be fulfilled.
I can remember being younger and feeling the fiscal handcuffs of the wants versus the needs. I unfortunately just had to suck it up and do without or *gasp* save my money for an extended period to get that game. I could never imagine going to the creator to tell them they were destroying the working class with their prices.
Amen on this concept 🙏. People don't understand that not all products are for them. The developers don't deserve being treated poorly because of someone else's own frustrations with THEIR financial situation. I know so many people like this that don't understand the cost of production, materials, labor, etc. Good for you Sandy standing your ground. When you produce a quality product you should price it as such!!
I am subscribed _because_ I like your rantings! Keep them rants coming, please. But seriously, apart from the ranting, and you being totally right in this video, I still want to hear stories about Call of Cthulhu, and how that game came into being.
Sandy is never wrong, and he's even more never wrong about this. "If you have to choose between rent & food and my game, don't buy my game" is dropping ethereal magick on the chess board to annihilate the opponent's pieces.
Oh my gosh. I would have not only HAPPILY handed over $200 bucks for this, I would have paid a bit extra to ask you kindly to autograph it for me. 🙂 You responded perfectly to this rudeness.
i think it depends on the product i mean if its a game you are really proud of and or it cost alot of time and money to make i think its worth more but i think a good game doesnt necessarily have to cost $50 if its simple or whatever 5 10 could be reasonable (im talking about video games because i dont know what goes into a board game) but yeah if you balance all those factors out i think thats how much the game in question should cost
If Sandy, one of the OG creators of DOOM (who seemingly analyses questions from every possible angle) told me I should punch myself in the face repeatedly, I WOULD NOT ARGUE with him.
@@kyledewaal3426 Well I, for one, really enjoy his content, and think DOOM is one of the greatest games ever made. If I don't like something, I don't spend time lurking around said thing; I move on.
I think a lot of consumers just see developers as a blob - all able to produce their product at the same margins, which results in the POV of the person described here.
Hello Sandy, do you think you would potentially be good with designing 2D platformers? Level design, power up or gimmick balancing, enemies, etc… can I contact you somehow
OMG, I've seen stupid people... A lot of stupid people. But this one is on a different level. It's like going to yell at a Ferrari or Lamborghini or Bugatti that no car should cost more than 30.000 dollars or something like that.
I think the prices for entertainment nowadays are still preposterously cheap for what they are, especially with respect to board/video games. I've gotten hundreds of hours out of a title I paid $40 dollars or under, that's not even a cent an hour. Even miniature wargaming, including paints, airbrush, kit, etc., if you drop a grand on it overall, but get (incl. painting and assembly) a few hundred hours of enjoyment out of it, especially with friends and the accomplishment of completing a project, that's still only a couple bucks an hour. That is why film is struggling. It's not the same thing, for sure, but it's kind of hard to swallow even $20 for 2 hours when I can have interactive and social entertainment for a fraction of that. Point being, people will balk at a game that costs a few hundred bucks (that's good money, don't get me wrong) and will entertain half a dozen people for many hours, but then won't think twice about a case of beer or a $6 coffee milkshake. When it comes to anything, I look at it with respect to labor. How many hours of your (after tax) labor does this thing cost and what do you get in return. If you get a 4 or even 10:1 return on hours of labor vs hours of enjoyment, you're doing pretty well.
@@kyledewaal3426 I never said that he is the Ferrari of games, what i said is that a more premium game (the one he did release for 200 bucks) isn't the same as one of 50 bucks. If he has millions of dollars of unfilled kickstart projects that's another issue, one non related to this video subject. Also, that's kickstarter for you, people give money with no garantie that it will be fulfilled. Some times it's by malice other times its by mismanagement.
So I'm gonna agree the dude is being a richard, but I kinda see some validity to board games costing too much. I don't know the sweet spot but I dropped magic and Warhammer both when it felt like a requirement to spend a few hundred dollars a year. I also don't like to spend too much if it's a game that I don't see myself playing more than a few times a year. Rather than sulk I just make the most with what I got. To be honest, for the short while I could get them I absolutely loved the Peterson games cthulhu miniatures as they looked great and were priced well.
Maybe a 'cheapass' version without the minis? Echos of Cardstock Commies from Paranoia anyone? I know that the presentation is a good chunk of the appeal. That said, people forget artizan games cost a lot to make and the crew involved all need to get paid for their time and effort. And it is a LOT of time and effort in some cases.
Got to say sounds like this person really wanted your game but had a terrible attitude towards you about, as you said, trying to guilt trip you by comparing to another game. I don't think this person was logically thinking things through. Not everything costs the same. Be fiscally responsible and afford what you can. Sucks that you had to deal with this and I am hoping this person learned from the situation. Positive thinking! Fair chance they may not have a growth mindset and may be stuck in their ways
I think that's fine, the game itself has to justify it of course, but you should charge what you want. If people don't think it's worth that price, then people won't buy it. That's the beauty of the market, you vote with your wallet. Nobody should expect to be catered for in such a way as to be able to dictate the price of something in any way other than refusing to buy something because they see it as too expensive. Me personally, I'd never pay that much for a single game, it just doesn't seem worth it to me. I'd rather have a cheaper quality product for a lower price than pay that much, because all I really care about in a game is the quality of the experience of playing it, but that's why I wouldn't buy it and I'm not suggesting that you make any changes for a person like me. Btw, just to be clear, I'm not trying to say anything negative about your game or the price of it. Clearly people love it and want to buy it, and I do have respect for the fact that you want to make something of such high quality. I'm just saying that's not something I value personally, I value it to a certain extent, just not that much. All I'm trying to say is that even as someone who also doesn't want to pay that much for a board game, I wouldn't try to tell you how much you should charge and I think the person mentioned in this video is wrong in how they acted. They're the type of person who isn't able to control their desires, it just makes me think of a child screaming at the top of their lungs "BUT I WANT IT, I WANT IT, I WANT IT!" while stamping their feet and pouting. An essential skill in life is the ability to balance priorities, something that person clearly lacks.
Yea too bad you can't add microtransactions to board games to make cost 50 dollars at most (with about billion gazillion dollars worth of buyable content that's 'totally not necessary' to enjoy it)
Yes. There are many great games from many great creators (yourself included of course) all over the place for $50.00 or less. If that's what you want, they are there. But there is absolutely no reason high end luxury games that cost more than that can't be made. That idea is just ridiculous. You were right to stand your ground.
The price of any game will hardly matter when R'lyeh rises and Great Cthulhu wakes.
This^
Ha ha LOL you beat me to that one. 🙂
As a miniature enthusiast, I often buy board games for the miniatures. $200 for a boardgame with 64 miniatures means $3.13 a mini. The average mini is $5-$10 a piece and 120mm is easily $30. This is actually a steal for me.
Get a 3d printer, it's even cheaper.
See? Good point!! You are exactly right! Whoever this dude was that gave Sandy a hard time had no idea what the hell he was talking about. I want this game myself, now.
I bet @@TheAxebeard was the guy at the booth.
If this guy is getting mad about Cthulhu Wars costing what it does, he should check out Warhammer or Magic sometime.
I play Warhammer 40K. Paying 200$ for a board game is nothing. 😂
I used to play yugioh. With 200 dollars you don't even buy a playset of one of the latest meta cards.
I paid 300$ for Hyperspace and I am looking forward to it. 2025 is the year! Make it happen! Best wishes from germany! 🥰
He is just trying to guilt-trip you into cutting him a deal that he doesn't deserve. I'm sure he does this everywhere he goes.
It's an open market. You can charge whatever you want to sustain a business. I suspect that person wanted you to join their pity party and give them a discount.
We're a few short steps away from that guy being able to attain and hold a university professorship in economics.
For someone who ones all Cthulhu wars products I regret nothing. Money well spent!
There are games out there that I would like to have, but for Q reason or another, cant fit imto my budget, so i just dont buy them, but i wouldn't go to comic con and berate the designer over the price. Thats just silly.
Yeah, people can be silly sometimes. Don't sweat it.
I love eldritch horror. But it hardly ever gets to the table. However, Risk strike, vaalbara, radlands, god of war and gears of war, star wars deck building games, all pack massive value in a small box and they get out to the table quickly easily without too complex rules. Way more playability value in small box games. Jason Glover is a genius with Tim helm and gate_gates and other mint tin games. Tristan hall with hall or nothing games. All superb. 👌👍
I think veilwraith would particularly appeal to Lovecraft fans. It's a solo game but my partner and I still play it together and just discuss strategies. If you get the expansion pack there's loads of replayability. And then there's the artwork. Most excellent 👌 👏 👍.
I spent $1000 for Planet Apocalypse, when it turns up one day that will be my luxury item. Glad to see you are posting videos again and hope it all goes good with Quimbley’s and one day Planet Apocalypse will be fulfilled.
I can remember being younger and feeling the fiscal handcuffs of the wants versus the needs. I unfortunately just had to suck it up and do without or *gasp* save my money for an extended period to get that game. I could never imagine going to the creator to tell them they were destroying the working class with their prices.
Amen on this concept 🙏. People don't understand that not all products are for them. The developers don't deserve being treated poorly because of someone else's own frustrations with THEIR financial situation.
I know so many people like this that don't understand the cost of production, materials, labor, etc. Good for you Sandy standing your ground. When you produce a quality product you should price it as such!!
I am subscribed _because_ I like your rantings! Keep them rants coming, please.
But seriously, apart from the ranting, and you being totally right in this video, I still want to hear stories about Call of Cthulhu, and how that game came into being.
If a $200 Cthulhu wars costs more than rent- then don’t pay rent! It’s a matter of priorities!
Sandy is never wrong, and he's even more never wrong about this. "If you have to choose between rent & food and my game, don't buy my game" is dropping ethereal magick on the chess board to annihilate the opponent's pieces.
To be honest Cthulhu wars doesnt even cost that much when compared to many other high end games.
Well said
Speaking of games, is that apartment that Monster Condo was based on still around, or is it a Rue d'Auseil type situation?
No. Not all games should cost as much as other games.
These folks are just Pinko weirdos wbo don't want to take responsibility for their own choices.
yeah the cheapskate sounds like a redditor that says he is underpaid but looooves to spend on entertainment
A deck of cards costs like a buck. Either raise the price of cards up to match board games or lower board games down to a dollar.
@@thomassynths , "SOLATAIRE CAME WITH MY PC FOR FREE! MAKE ALL CARD DECKS FREE!"
how expensive is 3d printed gods war going to be then
Oh my gosh. I would have not only HAPPILY handed over $200 bucks for this, I would have paid a bit extra to ask you kindly to autograph it for me. 🙂 You responded perfectly to this rudeness.
This is a strange game. For you the only winning move is not to play.
How about a nice game of chess?
You’re game isn’t expensive, said person is just cheap. Love your products!!!!
i think it depends on the product i mean if its a game you are really proud of and or it cost alot of time and money to make i think its worth more but i think a good game doesnt necessarily have to cost $50 if its simple or whatever 5 10 could be reasonable (im talking about video games because i dont know what goes into a board game) but yeah if you balance all those factors out i think thats how much the game in question should cost
😆Classic.
If Sandy, one of the OG creators of DOOM (who seemingly analyses questions from every possible angle) told me I should punch myself in the face repeatedly, I WOULD NOT ARGUE with him.
@@kyledewaal3426 Well I, for one, really enjoy his content, and think DOOM is one of the greatest games ever made. If I don't like something, I don't spend time lurking around said thing; I move on.
I think a lot of consumers just see developers as a blob - all able to produce their product at the same margins, which results in the POV of the person described here.
@@kyledewaal3426 Such a shame for you :(
Hello Sandy, do you think you would potentially be good with designing 2D platformers? Level design, power up or gimmick balancing, enemies, etc… can I contact you somehow
OMG, I've seen stupid people... A lot of stupid people. But this one is on a different level. It's like going to yell at a Ferrari or Lamborghini or Bugatti that no car should cost more than 30.000 dollars or something like that.
I think the prices for entertainment nowadays are still preposterously cheap for what they are, especially with respect to board/video games. I've gotten hundreds of hours out of a title I paid $40 dollars or under, that's not even a cent an hour. Even miniature wargaming, including paints, airbrush, kit, etc., if you drop a grand on it overall, but get (incl. painting and assembly) a few hundred hours of enjoyment out of it, especially with friends and the accomplishment of completing a project, that's still only a couple bucks an hour. That is why film is struggling. It's not the same thing, for sure, but it's kind of hard to swallow even $20 for 2 hours when I can have interactive and social entertainment for a fraction of that. Point being, people will balk at a game that costs a few hundred bucks (that's good money, don't get me wrong) and will entertain half a dozen people for many hours, but then won't think twice about a case of beer or a $6 coffee milkshake. When it comes to anything, I look at it with respect to labor. How many hours of your (after tax) labor does this thing cost and what do you get in return. If you get a 4 or even 10:1 return on hours of labor vs hours of enjoyment, you're doing pretty well.
His "reason" is the same as come to a Ferrari dealership and bit...ch about it not costing the same price as a Chevy Cruise
@@kyledewaal3426 I never said that he is the Ferrari of games, what i said is that a more premium game (the one he did release for 200 bucks) isn't the same as one of 50 bucks.
If he has millions of dollars of unfilled kickstart projects that's another issue, one non related to this video subject.
Also, that's kickstarter for you, people give money with no garantie that it will be fulfilled. Some times it's by malice other times its by mismanagement.
So I'm gonna agree the dude is being a richard, but I kinda see some validity to board games costing too much.
I don't know the sweet spot but I dropped magic and Warhammer both when it felt like a requirement to spend a few hundred dollars a year. I also don't like to spend too much if it's a game that I don't see myself playing more than a few times a year. Rather than sulk I just make the most with what I got.
To be honest, for the short while I could get them I absolutely loved the Peterson games cthulhu miniatures as they looked great and were priced well.
The dude crying about the price sounds like he’s a “disney star wars” fan lol
Maybe a 'cheapass' version without the minis? Echos of Cardstock Commies from Paranoia anyone?
I know that the presentation is a good chunk of the appeal.
That said, people forget artizan games cost a lot to make and the crew involved all need to get paid for their time and effort.
And it is a LOT of time and effort in some cases.
Got to say sounds like this person really wanted your game but had a terrible attitude towards you about, as you said, trying to guilt trip you by comparing to another game. I don't think this person was logically thinking things through. Not everything costs the same. Be fiscally responsible and afford what you can. Sucks that you had to deal with this and I am hoping this person learned from the situation. Positive thinking! Fair chance they may not have a growth mindset and may be stuck in their ways
I think you handled the situation very well.
definitely not 70$
Guy should just buy a three d printer, rather then complain.
I think that's fine, the game itself has to justify it of course, but you should charge what you want. If people don't think it's worth that price, then people won't buy it. That's the beauty of the market, you vote with your wallet. Nobody should expect to be catered for in such a way as to be able to dictate the price of something in any way other than refusing to buy something because they see it as too expensive. Me personally, I'd never pay that much for a single game, it just doesn't seem worth it to me. I'd rather have a cheaper quality product for a lower price than pay that much, because all I really care about in a game is the quality of the experience of playing it, but that's why I wouldn't buy it and I'm not suggesting that you make any changes for a person like me.
Btw, just to be clear, I'm not trying to say anything negative about your game or the price of it. Clearly people love it and want to buy it, and I do have respect for the fact that you want to make something of such high quality. I'm just saying that's not something I value personally, I value it to a certain extent, just not that much. All I'm trying to say is that even as someone who also doesn't want to pay that much for a board game, I wouldn't try to tell you how much you should charge and I think the person mentioned in this video is wrong in how they acted. They're the type of person who isn't able to control their desires, it just makes me think of a child screaming at the top of their lungs "BUT I WANT IT, I WANT IT, I WANT IT!" while stamping their feet and pouting. An essential skill in life is the ability to balance priorities, something that person clearly lacks.
Yea too bad you can't add microtransactions to board games to make cost 50 dollars at most (with about billion gazillion dollars worth of buyable content that's 'totally not necessary' to enjoy it)
No, no they should not.
Yes. There are many great games from many great creators (yourself included of course) all over the place for $50.00 or less. If that's what you want, they are there. But there is absolutely no reason high end luxury games that cost more than that can't be made. That idea is just ridiculous. You were right to stand your ground.
YES! Zero bucks to be exact!! ^^