Hi Chris! First of all thanks for the video. I particularly enjoyed your list of themes. Now, as for the definition of God, I believe the sentence God is "a shout in the street" can be interpreted in many ways: 1) The idea of God is not something you can understand by speaking about God. The greek philosopher Plato posits a world of ideas we can't describe relying on the world we experience. Those who witnessed the greatness of God, did it under unforseenable circumstances (St. Paul did it as a soldier, not a priest, on the road to Damasco; Dante wrote the comedy when he was in exile). It may even be said that the more you speak, the less you understand. Joyce did wrote a rather long novel, but it might not be desined to be properly "read", but "thought". The stream of consciusness, after all, is nothing but a thread of the author's thoughts. As you said in the video about Telemachus, our thought does not proceed linearly. 2) The definition of what God is resides in the shout itself (Hooray! Ay! Whrrwhee!), not in the explanation: "That is God [...] a shout in the street". "Hooray! Ay! Whrrwhee!" are not real words. They are sounds. Very meaningful ones, yes, and yet sounds. Music, poetry, dance, painting and all arts in general use alternatives codes. God is more than we can even think about. She/he exceeds our limits. So there is no way for human beings to limit the almighty God with such a limited expressing way as human language is. 3) In Chinese Philosophy, only the IDIOT can get THE answer. The dullard students are antiheroes among the antiheroes (Deasy and Stephen), so they are the most likely to get closer to THE question. I also add some quotation I particularly like along with one question to you or whoever would be so kind do answer: A) Speaking about the Pyrrich victory in Tarentum) "[...] Another victory like that and we are done for" (it is unbelivable how Joyce compared that victory to WWI victory) B) Stephen is lecturing his dullard students and he thinks: " In a moment they will laugh more loudly, aware of MY LACK OF RULE" C) "For them too history was a tale like any other too often heard [...] -tell us a story, sir! - Oh, do Sir, a ghoststory!" Is it possible to find some evidence proving Joyce knew something about Chinese philosphy? Thanks again, Cosimo
WOW! Cosimo, your comments are wonderful and I thank you for sharing. I like to know where the readers are located. Are you in China? Now, on to your question. The more I learn about Joyce, the more surprised I am at his depth of knowledge. He did study history so I have no doubt that he encountered Chinese thought. It might be hard to find specific proof but I say that he likely did. Considering his relationship to the British Empire, with Ireland under the British thumb, he surely looked to India and China. I love the expression that god is a shout in the street. As you state, that says so much. To me, it somewhat, and only somewhat, separates god from theology. As a shout in the street, god becomes all present and within everything---as you state. I do know that Joyce saw history as a continuous cycle. (Vico) He saw history repeating. We get some of that in Ulysses but Finnegans Wake is all about that looping quality of human history. Christian philosophy would also take you close to Chinese philosophy. Christ instructs his followers to "believe like a child". Don't go for an understanding you cannot reach, accept it as it is and love each other. I think Joyce struggled with trying to balance what he felt to be right with what he was taught by the church. I am so happy that you are participating in the discussion. I admire your ability to tackle this book. Thank you, Cosimo.
Thanks for your prompt reply, Chris. I am writing from Verona, Italy right now. However I should have thought about the bible too. However in 1915 Max Weber published "the religion of China: confucianism and taoism". It was the first and biggest wester attempt to promote Chinese culture (primarily) in Germany. As for the "idiot" theme, China is not the only source of it (in spite of the fact he might have taken some inspiration). I hope to read the next episode asap.
You make my heart sing! I am so happy that you are participating in the discussion. Joyce built so much into the book that no one can be an expert! The humanities make us human. People all over the world share interests online and find more common ground than differences. Though this little project is very small, I feel so close and grateful to everyone who comments. Thank you and best wishes to Italy from your sister state of California! In school, we were always taught how similar California is to Italy. Sláinte mhaith!
Cosimo Caputo You should check out Robert Anton Wilson’s talk on Finnegans Wake on TH-cam. I haven’t much of the book but his interpretation is that the book has been highly influenced by eastern spirituality/mysticism. I don’t know much about Buddhism or Daoism but going by that video it would seem Joyce knew an awful lot about it.
That line about God is a really beautiful one and you feel the core of it resonate throughout the rest of the book (along with a lot of the other themes seeded in this chapter). Even Joyce's other work, just who he was as a person. I think that about any way you interpret it could be valid in the context of the book, but to me that line has always been Stephen nodding with respect to simple, real life. The book goes in depth deconstructing how people are blinded to their own undoing by sentimentality, which we see especially in regards to Religion/Spirituality and Nationalism. The consistent display of people in one way or another escaping real life through romanticism, and then we have Stephen's simple recognition that there's beauty, you could even argue a spiritual kind of beauty, out there in the streets waiting for you. Kids being enraptured in their game, a purity and passion and enthusiasm shining out clear as day. That's all there is to it, and that's all there really needs to be, according Stephen/Joyce. There are so many wonderful things and ideas in this book that Joyce just lays bare, and on your first read they seem to blend with all the other text. For as much as people think Ulysses is overstuffed or gimmicky, I really think the book speaks perfectly for itself if you're just willing to listen.
I am so glad that you have a good "feel" for this writing. You caught a beautiful line. It will always be with you---you'll remember that line for all of your life. Savor it. And thank you so much for commenting.
I agree. I'm actually kind of scandalized by the idea of interpreting it any other way. What else could you possibly call the joyous shouts of children at play but 'God'? You could say that it's ambiguous as to what Stephen is thumbing towards out the window. But I think Joyce is clear that he's gesturing towards the hockey game, given that it's explicitly drawn to our attention immediately prior-- the scored 'goal' in the game juxtaposed with Deasy's postulated 'goal' of history as the 'manifestation of God'. Then, almost like a jumpcut in a movie, Stephen's declaration 'That is God' is immediately followed by the whoops and cries of the boys. Joyce is directly linking the two as one and the same, imo.
My reading group is struggling through Ulysses but enjoying it. We have been helped immensely by your clearly expressed insights and explanation. Thank you!
Thank you very much! _ One favourite quote: '...Do you know what is the proudest word you will ever hear from an Englishman’s mouth? .... -That on his empire, Stephen said, the sun never sets. **** -Ba! - Mr Deasy cried. - That’s not English. A French Celt said that. ... I paid my way. **** _ (Good man, good man.) _ - I paid my way. I never borrowed a shilling in my life. Can you feel that? I owe nothing.'
I loved that exchange between Sephen and Deasy especially as it shows what little Deasy knows (or perhaps he's hiding his knowledge). " A French Celt"----LOL. Actually the "sun never sets" quote is from Herodotus in describing the breadth of the Persian Empire.
About the God part: I think that Stephen means that all of God's importance is its impact on our minds and how our lives and emotions changes because we have the idea of God. The point could be that God rather than an actual being it would be more of an influence in how we see the world.
Thank you for your video. I was a bit worried I would not appreciate fully Ulysses. But reading this Episode 2 so many things echoed in me. Some lines felt truly special.
Thanks a lot. I really like the sentence God is a shout in the street! It reminds me that in the bible many times God appears only After people cries out. So yes God is everywhere, but God hears the cry, is in the shout of the people, is present when people cry, shout, is in need.
When I first heard the line "God is a shout in the street" (I'm listening to the RTE Radio Players' audio version) it made me think of the song "That's Entertainment" by The Jam: A police car and a screaming siren A pneumatic drill and ripped up concrete A baby wailing and stray dog howling The screech of brakes and lamp light blinking That's entertainment, that's entertainment A smash of glass and the rumble of boots An electric train and a ripped up phone booth Paint splattered walls and the cry of a tomcat Lights going out and a kick in the balls I tell ya that's entertainment, that's entertainment I wonder was Paul Weller influenced by the line when writing it?
Chris, I just watched the "Nestor" segment and was able to get TH-cam on my Smart TV. That made the whole lesson even more fun. I felt I was in the first row of the classroom. (My hand was up to ask a question!) I was pondering what philosopher remarked that our eyes are almost are brain in bringing us the input that shapes us. Now on to the Nestor. Oliver
Thank you for your comment. If you would like to bring that up on the Proteus video, I would like to comment on it there to help other readers. I will answer here as well---Aristotle is the likely father of what we might call early empiricism. I believe that Stephen was contemplating Aristotle as his "Ineluctable modality of the visible" is rather crude and not fully developed empiricism. Right? Saying simply that something "is" what it appears to be, doesn't take other data into consideration. I allude to that in the video. As empiricism developed under Bacon, Descartes, Hobbes, Spinoza, et al., it became more precise and used more sensory input and eventually became the technique to confirm the conclusion. All this evolved to the modern 'scientific method' used today. What (I think) is important here is not a deep understanding of empiricism but rather Stephen's superficial view of what he observes. He's a smart guy and can make witty observations but can he 'see'? Is what we see, enough? I end the video with the question about what Stephen is "missing". Maybe you are on to it... (I will repost this in Proteus if you would be so kind as to post your question there as well)
Thank you so much for your insightful explanation.. I am an Indian who is not at all used to complex novels like Ullyses. I gave up reading this novel after some vain trials. Still.. somewhere up ..i have a kind of deep affinity towards it and atlast i got to see your videos and am relieved. As for your question about Stephen's comment on God, i do agree with the major comments over here that, God is everywhere even in the minutea. But, i suppose, those children shouting out hurray is not a minute or an unimportant part of life. That shout is what makes the surrounding tremble. The roar echoes inside you constantly unless you get a hold of yourself or maybe after a slightly different toned shout. That hurray! Ay! Whrrwhee! is the sublime emotion(sad or happy) of when you'll be reminded of your God. You won't remember your God unless there is a blow!
Well, these two take a interesting and poignant meaning due to current events: - That is God. Hooray! Ay! Whrrwhee! - What? Mr Deasy asked. - A shout in the street, Stephen answered AND History, Stephen said, is a nightmare from which I am trying to awake
Those are a couple of the most often used quotes from the book! Glad you caught and enjoyed them. Are you having fun? Stay with it and you'll be rewarded with a rich experience. Message me if I can help.
There was a sentence I came back to after the first read and it struck me as beautiful and creepy at the same time if I imagined it for too long without context “The fox burying his grandmother under a hollybush.” Like imagine Stephen burying his mother in parallel. It has a cunning which has a menace to it along with doing something which needed to to be done. I felt the entire vibe of the chapter turn because of this line🖤
I think that Joyce and Stephen urge us to consider the rapture and everyday joy of life as its very height and meaning by likening it to the human idea of "God,", which has incredibly universal connotations with the sublimity of life. You could interpret the idea of God here as only being used as a poetic tool by Joyce, not in a literal sense, as we know Stephen and Joyce are certainly not the strongest believers! Perhaps the statement is even a subtle denial or undermining of God as a human idea in its portrayal of everyday human emotion as deeply meaningful, almost taking the place of "God" in Stephen's philosophy (Joyce's overarching philosophy in Ulysses?). Thank you Chris for having made these videos- They are a huge help in making each piece of the book more lucid with all of Joyce's great allusions!
I think that god as "a shout in the streets" means something very simple but profound; As philosopher John Ebert points out, Religion has emerged from almost every culture producing different deities to 'supplement' a kind of unknownness (Kantian noumena). God as a cry from the streets could simply mean that the need for God (or a greater logos) is a human condition. Also thank you so much for this series, Chris!
Greetings! I really enjoyed this video. It's comprehensible a lot for those who aren't familiar with Irish culture and the rivalry between Ireland and Britain. Also it's more useful when you explain Stephen's riddles... but the riddle with the fox I couldnt get it straight. About the question you asked: What's your interpretation of Stephen's saying; God is a shout in the street? I think what Stephen wanted to say is that God is everywhere. It can take many forms as possible and it can raise his voice through people. That's my humble opinion! Thank you if you read my comment 😊
Hello to you! First, do you mind if I ask where you are located? I'm in California in the U.S. The riddle of the fox is very strange. Sometimes, the very odd references are cultural or specific to the time. I too found that riddle odd. The kids didn't get it either. On the next subject, I agree with you 100%. God is a shout in the street is a great way of saying that god is all and in all. I think Joyce would like to think about god being in the most insignificant detail. Britain maintained total control of Ireland. Today, the biggest issue is how can England break with the EU (Brexit) since Northern Ireland (Protestant) is part of the UK. Ireland, the southern part, is NOT in the UK and is in the EU and will be staying in the EU. So, with the north coming out of the EU, that means they will need a border separating the north from the south. In the 60s, 70s, and 80s, there was a bloody civil war between north and south Ireland. That was worked out and it's been peaceful. This new thing means that a hard border will be needed (EU requirement) between the 2 Irelands. Will civil war break out? Who knows. There's a riddle.
Hi Chris, I am from Melbourne, I have tried to read Ulysses for the last 15 years. The most I could do was to read 100 pages. This time, with your enjoyable help I am sure I will finish it. (I have read the other two books: Dubliners and The Portrait... A short answer to the riddle. God is what you make of it. Man is the centre of the universe and if man says That is a Lion, it means he is pointing to a lion. I am a beginner but I see this ph rase as showing a humanist Joyce. God is a shout in the crowd because he says so. Nobody che prove him wrong. Thanks very much for these wonderful videos
Hi Fernando! Thank you for your comments. I appreciate that you took the time to write. Thank you! If you feel bogged down at any point, please reach out. You are going to make it. Drop a comment after each chapter...I am excited to follow your progress. Cheers, mate!
"God is a shout in the street" is the kind of riddle you mention in this Episode 2. Stephan (James Joyce) says: "To learn one must be humble." Therein lies the answer to the ultimate riddle. We may never know the answer; we just have to learn (search) forever.
The Foot and Mouth Disease problem referred to in Deasy's letter was not in 1904 but in 1912. Blackwood-Price was a friend of Joyce's in Trieste and had in fact letters about the disease published in the press in 1912. Joyce was back in Ireland at the time. (Just a point for information.)
I think he means God is everywhere (including in the mundane things), not just inside church or not just within the confines of organized religion. I view Stephen as still a believer, although questioning the Church / organized religion more than questioning the actual existence of God. ???
Hello Chris and fellow readers. Here is something I thought while reading the second episode. 1) The first word is "You". It sounds like "You, reader, are in charge of waking up and changing your world/ You are responsable for history and its effects, because you should have studied it. If you had studied more history, you would have been able to understand more of your time". 2) Speaking about the students, Stephen thinks: "Welloff people, proud that their eldest son was in the navy". Over and over again in history leaders tended to make common people's life so difficult and dangerous that military service had usually been considered as the best possible option. After all why should I break my back working like an animal as a peasant in a field if I can just stand for some hours holding a rifle and get a generous pay for that? 3) Education is the key. The key that allows you in the real world, in real society, as a citizen. In ancient Greece, being a citizen used to carry a lot of duties. In exchange for the right of vote, citizens had to be engaged in pubblic affairs, and expose themselves to the judgment of others. That is why the episode starts with the world "You". That is why Mulligan says "We should hellenise Ireland". 4) Hockey is more educational than fake formal education delivered by Mr Deasy, at least for two reasons. First there is no need to speak when you play (you may simply enjoy screaming and yelling). Second, you like it, so you actively want to improve (like when you start to learn how to bake a chocolate cake as an amateur)
“ God (or the Devil) is in the details.” And in Joyce, the particular matters and nothing is trivial. So this line is an early warning, coming as it does before the seemingly random ramblings of Episode 3, that it is worth attending to everything. Also, the sentiment evokes Blake “To see the universe in a grain of sand.” Everything is connected for the creator, be that God or the artist or the reader who pays attention. And you can find meaningful beauty and depth in the commonplace if you care to do so. Stephen wants to; Deasy is too busy pontificating and too hidebound by tradition to do so.
Thank you for that enriching comment. As an avid bread maker, I find this book a bit like flour, water, salt, and yeast. Once mixed, those parts take on a life and are different every time I peek in. Some find the book too dense, even pretentious. I find it to be a glorious read that gives me something new everytime I venture back to June 16, 1904. Joyce would have been fascinating, albeit difficult, to talk with. He must have had an amazing mental schema to handle all the details in this book. In a single day, he can run us through the emotional gamut. In Circe, the opening pages are horrific beyond Stephen King while Calypso is both touching and 'moving'; pun intended. I am so glad you joined the discussion.
With regards to "God is a shout in the street.", I think the fun is in the fact that, however profound this saying sounds, you can turn it on top of its head and say with an equal measure of profundity that "God is in the silence in the street" Come to think about it neither phrase makes us any the wiser really. I think it is important that after saying "God is ...." Stephen shrugs his shoulders as if to say "I don't even know myself what I mean by this".
i think i will do as stephen did and "close my eyes to hear" ,"nacheinander",and try using an audio book version where possible and have each part on peremanent repeat to try and catch the subtilties and dig like the dog on the beach to search for "etwas", (germ.)something, an anagram, unusual, like his thought process, of "waste", ie stephens dead mothers body to allay his guilt of his disrespect..
"God is a shout in the streets" - Stephen is positing his interpretation of consubstantiality. The holy spirit is in people's fears, it is in strangers' cries of anger or pain, anguish. The paradox: god is in common pain, god is in everything, united in father, son and holy spirit or creator, sufferer, and believer. God is the transmission, were all recievers if we turn on and tune in. I am unable to decipher if Stephen personally subscribes to what he is turned on to and in tuned with. He sees the voicings of god, i think his intellect and spirituality coexist to form his perspective that god is not an objective definition but a subjective emotion, a shout in the streets, felt uniquely by each. The multiple angle parallex, each persons' perspective of god are parts, fragmented pieces, which makes up a consubstantial whole, like the father, son, and spirit analogy.
Joyce has chosen words much like the horoscope in the paper. If the horoscope says, "expect a bonus today", then finding a penny on the street fulfills the prediction. We will find any event that suits it. God is a shout in the street takes on different, while still common meaning to all readers. God is everywhere. God is in the minutiae? Your interpretation is as good as any, which proves the point. Great comments. THank you for adding to the discussion.
I think Stephen is trying to say that God is life itself. We are God’s own thoughts. In the same way that every character, every word of Ulysses, is part of Joyce, so to are we all part of the conscience of “God”, the living spirit of the universe. I think he’s saying we should worship life and one another. By the way, given the Hamlet references scattered throughout the first two episodes, I can’t help but see parallels between Stephen’s conversation with Deasy and Pollonius’ conversation with his son Laertes (which comes almost immediately after the other parallel between Martello Tower and Elsinore). Both conversations have an air of elder “wisdom” to the folly of youth, as well as having a tone of condescension and hypocrisy. I see more parallels with Hamlet in this episode that I do with The Odyssey. Just saying.
Great insights! I love it when people give thought to the book and don't merely try to get through it. It is packed with interesting ideas that are great fun to explore. I enjoy your thoughts and thank you for contributing.
Chris Reich thank you, Chris! I appreciate your videos. I’ve just started reading it myself. Two episodes in. I’ve had a copy of the gabler version on my shelves for about 5 years now. Lockdown has given me the perfect opportunity. I read Hamlet and The Odyssey in the past and recently read Dubliners and Portrait. I’m from the west of Scotland so I’m quite comfortable with the references to Irish history, it was Stephen’s stream of consciousness that always terrified me, and still does to be honest, haha! The message I’m getting so far from Stephen’s dreams and wishes of the future - new paganism; the average joes as gods or godlike heroes. I’m going to continue to read at least 50 pages a day and follow your videos. Keep up the good work, my friend!
Ive read this chapter and felt discouraged by complexity of internal.monologue and rechrerche references.After your excellent talk I feel lee afraid and will have another go.
Marcelo Zabaloy, en su traducción al castellano, anota PR 1:20-22 para esta sentencia del diálogo: 20.- La sabiduría clama en las calles, Alza su voz en las plazas; 21.- Clama en los principales lugares de reunión; En las entradas de las puertas de la ciudad dice sus razones. 22.- ¿Hasta cuándo, oh simples, amaréis la simpleza, Y los burladores desearán el burlar, Y los insensatos aborrecerán la ciencia?
Hi Chris, I know I'm a little late to the party, but I wanted to add my two cents. I've been thinking a lot about God being a shout in the street, reading various comments and trying to understand them and fit them into my interpretation of the book. I read a lot of book by authors who are extremely atheist or anti-god so this has probably coloured my view of this book. To me that sentence has felt atheistic, that God is a shout on the street: a distorted echo that is misinterpreted or has no meaning. I'm not sure if that is what is meant, I understand that Joyce was not a fan of Catholicism and so Stephen isn't either. If this translates of an atheistic worldview or if he still had some faith I'm not sure. But when I read the first two chapters and came across this line I thought it was Stephen leaning into his resentment(?) of the church and religion. I hope I could explain this well, I'm not sure how to explain it any better. Honestly I prefer to think that there is some different meaning to that sentence, a more hopeful meaning.
I think there is hope in that line, Hannah. The old conservative Catholicism had a narrow view of god. Joyce is saying that god is everywhere . The kids are playing and that's god. When Deasy is confused, Stephen says god is a shout in the street....or is all and in all. Joyce loved zooming in and seeing detail...and this love of detail leads to the same place....
I’ve been reading a section, then listening your commentary (which I love). Maybe I’m looking at Stephen the wrong way (especially since he’s meant to be Joyce) , but he seems so mean spirited: a son who refuses to humor his mother as she’s dying for some petty ideology, a teacher with such contempt for his young students. Please explain how I’m wrong. I’ve never heard anyone talk trash on Stephen before. He just seems so cynical
I've been reading Ulysses now for several weeks, currently in chapter 11, and it is anything but fun. No one here can reasonably deny that most of the work is psychotic gibberish.
Thanks for commenting. Joyce rebelled but was never able to escape. I think the comment says that God is all and in all. Not unimportant, but in the things we experience every day. But I can only speculate...
"That is God" Stephen refuses to kneel at his mother's death bed. Knowing that Joyce went to his dying mother, dressed in black but did not participate in the rituals, I assume, that Joyce is against the claustrophobic Catholicism of his youth. By making such a remark, That is God, he is brushing off all that, which is ritual and form and the fossilised institution of the Church. Not knowing any better we must think of him as having an idea of the Divine that does not include the Church, but seems to favour a natural and universal spirituality. The boys shout while having fun, Stephen likes to associate God with the happy side of life. He answers to Mr Deasy's statement that history is a manifestation of God. For Stephen himself and Ireland's history under the Catholic Church, history has been one of oppression. (doesn't he wake up to the nightmare of history?) By saying “That is God” he tears the paper ceiling, he takes the lid off the boiling pot. The book starts with a mockery of the Mass with Mulligan holding a bowl of lather as a chalice and “officiating” its rituals and mannerism. There are not half a dozen lines in the book without some reference, some terminology that have their sources in religion. May be is too early for me to say but it appears that Joyce, while mocking the religion and being irreverent towards it, he is very much glued to it, like a fly in the web, unable to escape it, trying but totally covering himself in its strands.
Of course there's not one "correct" meaning. Many different meanings can be extracted from great art even those not intended by the artist. For me "god is a shout in the street", in addition to the suggestions in these comments, is Stephen (Joyce) simply taking the mickey out of Deasy's belief in humanity moving towards the great "goal" It's a great joke!
Buddhism. Not su much Chinese... (about God being a shout in the street). Who can say what Joyce knew about Asian stuff? Maybe he figured it out on his own...
Hi Chris! First of all thanks for the video. I particularly enjoyed your list of themes. Now, as for the definition of God, I believe the sentence God is "a shout in the street" can be interpreted in many ways:
1) The idea of God is not something you can understand by speaking about God. The greek philosopher Plato posits a world of ideas we can't describe relying on the world we experience. Those who witnessed the greatness of God, did it under unforseenable circumstances (St. Paul did it as a soldier, not a priest, on the road to Damasco; Dante wrote the comedy when he was in exile). It may even be said that the more you speak, the less you understand. Joyce did wrote a rather long novel, but it might not be desined to be properly "read", but "thought". The stream of consciusness, after all, is nothing but a thread of the author's thoughts. As you said in the video about Telemachus, our thought does not proceed linearly.
2) The definition of what God is resides in the shout itself (Hooray! Ay! Whrrwhee!), not in the explanation: "That is God [...] a shout in the street". "Hooray! Ay! Whrrwhee!" are not real words. They are sounds. Very meaningful ones, yes, and yet sounds. Music, poetry, dance, painting and all arts in general use alternatives codes. God is more than we can even think about. She/he exceeds our limits. So there is no way for human beings to limit the almighty God with such a limited expressing way as human language is.
3) In Chinese Philosophy, only the IDIOT can get THE answer. The dullard students are antiheroes among the antiheroes (Deasy and Stephen), so they are the most likely to get closer to THE question.
I also add some quotation I particularly like along with one question to you or whoever would be so kind do answer:
A) Speaking about the Pyrrich victory in Tarentum) "[...] Another victory like that and we are done for" (it is unbelivable how Joyce compared that victory to WWI victory)
B) Stephen is lecturing his dullard students and he thinks: " In a moment they will laugh more loudly, aware of MY LACK OF RULE"
C) "For them too history was a tale like any other too often heard [...] -tell us a story, sir! - Oh, do Sir, a ghoststory!"
Is it possible to find some evidence proving Joyce knew something about Chinese philosphy?
Thanks again,
Cosimo
WOW! Cosimo, your comments are wonderful and I thank you for sharing. I like to know where the readers are located. Are you in China?
Now, on to your question. The more I learn about Joyce, the more surprised I am at his depth of knowledge. He did study history so I have no doubt that he encountered Chinese thought. It might be hard to find specific proof but I say that he likely did. Considering his relationship to the British Empire, with Ireland under the British thumb, he surely looked to India and China.
I love the expression that god is a shout in the street. As you state, that says so much. To me, it somewhat, and only somewhat, separates god from theology. As a shout in the street, god becomes all present and within everything---as you state. I do know that Joyce saw history as a continuous cycle. (Vico) He saw history repeating. We get some of that in Ulysses but Finnegans Wake is all about that looping quality of human history. Christian philosophy would also take you close to Chinese philosophy. Christ instructs his followers to "believe like a child". Don't go for an understanding you cannot reach, accept it as it is and love each other. I think Joyce struggled with trying to balance what he felt to be right with what he was taught by the church.
I am so happy that you are participating in the discussion. I admire your ability to tackle this book. Thank you, Cosimo.
Thanks for your prompt reply, Chris. I am writing from Verona, Italy right now. However I should have thought about the bible too. However in 1915 Max Weber published "the religion of China: confucianism and taoism". It was the first and biggest wester attempt to promote Chinese culture (primarily) in Germany. As for the "idiot" theme, China is not the only source of it (in spite of the fact he might have taken some inspiration). I hope to read the next episode asap.
You make my heart sing! I am so happy that you are participating in the discussion. Joyce built so much into the book that no one can be an expert! The humanities make us human. People all over the world share interests online and find more common ground than differences. Though this little project is very small, I feel so close and grateful to everyone who comments. Thank you and best wishes to Italy from your sister state of California! In school, we were always taught how similar California is to Italy. Sláinte mhaith!
Cosimo Caputo in my
Cosimo Caputo You should check out Robert Anton Wilson’s talk on Finnegans Wake on TH-cam. I haven’t much of the book but his interpretation is that the book has been highly influenced by eastern spirituality/mysticism. I don’t know much about Buddhism or Daoism but going by that video it would seem Joyce knew an awful lot about it.
You have no idea sir how much of a help your videos has been to us first time reader of Ulysses. I cannot thank you enough.
That's true!
That line about God is a really beautiful one and you feel the core of it resonate throughout the rest of the book (along with a lot of the other themes seeded in this chapter). Even Joyce's other work, just who he was as a person. I think that about any way you interpret it could be valid in the context of the book, but to me that line has always been Stephen nodding with respect to simple, real life. The book goes in depth deconstructing how people are blinded to their own undoing by sentimentality, which we see especially in regards to Religion/Spirituality and Nationalism. The consistent display of people in one way or another escaping real life through romanticism, and then we have Stephen's simple recognition that there's beauty, you could even argue a spiritual kind of beauty, out there in the streets waiting for you. Kids being enraptured in their game, a purity and passion and enthusiasm shining out clear as day. That's all there is to it, and that's all there really needs to be, according Stephen/Joyce.
There are so many wonderful things and ideas in this book that Joyce just lays bare, and on your first read they seem to blend with all the other text. For as much as people think Ulysses is overstuffed or gimmicky, I really think the book speaks perfectly for itself if you're just willing to listen.
I am so glad that you have a good "feel" for this writing. You caught a beautiful line. It will always be with you---you'll remember that line for all of your life. Savor it. And thank you so much for commenting.
I agree. I'm actually kind of scandalized by the idea of interpreting it any other way. What else could you possibly call the joyous shouts of children at play but 'God'?
You could say that it's ambiguous as to what Stephen is thumbing towards out the window. But I think Joyce is clear that he's gesturing towards the hockey game, given that it's explicitly drawn to our attention immediately prior-- the scored 'goal' in the game juxtaposed with Deasy's postulated 'goal' of history as the 'manifestation of God'.
Then, almost like a jumpcut in a movie, Stephen's declaration 'That is God' is immediately followed by the whoops and cries of the boys. Joyce is directly linking the two as one and the same, imo.
beautifully said
This episode is so clear to me now, thank you!!
My reading group is struggling through Ulysses but enjoying it. We have been helped immensely by your clearly expressed insights and explanation. Thank you!
Thank you very much!
_
One favourite quote:
'...Do you know what is the proudest word you will ever hear from an Englishman’s mouth?
....
-That on his empire, Stephen said, the sun never sets. ****
-Ba! - Mr Deasy cried. - That’s not English. A French Celt said that.
...
I paid my way. ****
_
(Good man, good man.)
_
- I paid my way. I never borrowed a shilling in my life. Can you feel that? I owe nothing.'
I loved that exchange between Sephen and Deasy especially as it shows what little Deasy knows (or perhaps he's hiding his knowledge). " A French Celt"----LOL. Actually the "sun never sets" quote is from Herodotus in describing the breadth of the Persian Empire.
About the God part: I think that Stephen means that all of God's importance is its impact on our minds and how our lives and emotions changes because we have the idea of God. The point could be that God rather than an actual being it would be more of an influence in how we see the world.
Thank you for your video. I was a bit worried I would not appreciate fully Ulysses. But reading this Episode 2 so many things echoed in me. Some lines felt truly special.
As you go deeper, you'll begin to enjoy more and more. Thank you so much for your comment.
'A shout in the street' could be a reference to the Bible: 'a voice of one crying in the wilderness'?
Thanks for the series!
Thanks a lot. I really like the sentence God is a shout in the street! It reminds me that in the bible many times God appears only After people cries out. So yes God is everywhere, but God hears the cry, is in the shout of the people, is present when people cry, shout, is in need.
Beautiful sentiments. You are getting it! Are you enjoying the book? Stay in touch and you will make it! Thanks for commenting!
When I first heard the line "God is a shout in the street" (I'm listening to the RTE Radio Players' audio version) it made me think of the song "That's Entertainment" by The Jam:
A police car and a screaming siren
A pneumatic drill and ripped up concrete
A baby wailing and stray dog howling
The screech of brakes and lamp light blinking
That's entertainment, that's entertainment
A smash of glass and the rumble of boots
An electric train and a ripped up phone booth
Paint splattered walls and the cry of a tomcat
Lights going out and a kick in the balls
I tell ya that's entertainment, that's entertainment
I wonder was Paul Weller influenced by the line when writing it?
Thank you very much! It's great help!
Great video! Thank you so much!
You're doing great! It gets a little easier for a while after Nestor.
Chris, I just watched the "Nestor" segment and was able to get TH-cam on my Smart TV. That made the whole lesson even more fun. I felt I was in the first row of the classroom. (My hand was up to ask a question!) I was pondering what philosopher remarked that our eyes are almost are brain in bringing us the input that shapes us. Now on to the Nestor. Oliver
Thank you for your comment. If you would like to bring that up on the Proteus video, I would like to comment on it there to help other readers. I will answer here as well---Aristotle is the likely father of what we might call early empiricism. I believe that Stephen was contemplating Aristotle as his "Ineluctable modality of the visible" is rather crude and not fully developed empiricism. Right? Saying simply that something "is" what it appears to be, doesn't take other data into consideration. I allude to that in the video. As empiricism developed under Bacon, Descartes, Hobbes, Spinoza, et al., it became more precise and used more sensory input and eventually became the technique to confirm the conclusion. All this evolved to the modern 'scientific method' used today.
What (I think) is important here is not a deep understanding of empiricism but rather Stephen's superficial view of what he observes. He's a smart guy and can make witty observations but can he 'see'? Is what we see, enough? I end the video with the question about what Stephen is "missing". Maybe you are on to it...
(I will repost this in Proteus if you would be so kind as to post your question there as well)
Thank you so much for your insightful explanation.. I am an Indian who is not at all used to complex novels like Ullyses. I gave up reading this novel after some vain trials. Still.. somewhere up ..i have a kind of deep affinity towards it and atlast i got to see your videos and am relieved.
As for your question about Stephen's comment on God, i do agree with the major comments over here that, God is everywhere even in the minutea. But, i suppose, those children shouting out hurray is not a minute or an unimportant part of life. That shout is what makes the surrounding tremble. The roar echoes inside you constantly unless you get a hold of yourself or maybe after a slightly different toned shout. That hurray! Ay! Whrrwhee! is the sublime emotion(sad or happy) of when you'll be reminded of your God. You won't remember your God unless there is a blow!
Well, these two take a interesting and poignant meaning due to current events:
- That is God.
Hooray! Ay! Whrrwhee!
- What? Mr Deasy asked.
- A shout in the street, Stephen answered
AND
History, Stephen said, is a nightmare from which I am trying to awake
Those are a couple of the most often used quotes from the book! Glad you caught and enjoyed them. Are you having fun? Stay with it and you'll be rewarded with a rich experience. Message me if I can help.
There was a sentence I came back to after the first read and it struck me as beautiful and creepy at the same time if I imagined it for too long without context “The fox burying his grandmother under a hollybush.” Like imagine Stephen burying his mother in parallel. It has a cunning which has a menace to it along with doing something which needed to to be done.
I felt the entire vibe of the chapter turn because of this line🖤
I like what you see and how you think! Welcome back. Good luck with the rest of the book.
I think that Joyce and Stephen urge us to consider the rapture and everyday joy of life as its very height and meaning by likening it to the human idea of "God,", which has incredibly universal connotations with the sublimity of life. You could interpret the idea of God here as only being used as a poetic tool by Joyce, not in a literal sense, as we know Stephen and Joyce are certainly not the strongest believers! Perhaps the statement is even a subtle denial or undermining of God as a human idea in its portrayal of everyday human emotion as deeply meaningful, almost taking the place of "God" in Stephen's philosophy (Joyce's overarching philosophy in Ulysses?).
Thank you Chris for having made these videos- They are a huge help in making each piece of the book more lucid with all of Joyce's great allusions!
I enjoyed and appreciate your insightful comments! Thank you for taking the time. Enjoy your own odyssey!
Hi! I've only watched two videos so far but I'm enjoying them a lot. Entry-level, interesting.. THanks a lot from Spain!
Hello from California! Thank you so much for your comments. Enjoy your odyssey and let me know if you enjoy the book. Read for the pleasure.
I also found it funny how Deasy talking nonsense about foot and mouth has parallels with COVID deniers
Some things NEVER change!
I think that god as "a shout in the streets" means something very simple but profound; As philosopher John Ebert points out, Religion has emerged from almost every culture producing different deities to 'supplement' a kind of unknownness (Kantian noumena). God as a cry from the streets could simply mean that the need for God (or a greater logos) is a human condition. Also thank you so much for this series, Chris!
Fantastic. I love the insight. You are going to have a fun ride. Thank you for commenting.
Greetings! I really enjoyed this video. It's comprehensible a lot for those who aren't familiar with Irish culture and the rivalry between Ireland and Britain. Also it's more useful when you explain Stephen's riddles... but the riddle with the fox I couldnt get it straight. About the question you asked: What's your interpretation of Stephen's saying; God is a shout in the street? I think what Stephen wanted to say is that God is everywhere. It can take many forms as possible and it can raise his voice through people. That's my humble opinion! Thank you if you read my comment 😊
Hello to you! First, do you mind if I ask where you are located? I'm in California in the U.S. The riddle of the fox is very strange. Sometimes, the very odd references are cultural or specific to the time. I too found that riddle odd. The kids didn't get it either. On the next subject, I agree with you 100%. God is a shout in the street is a great way of saying that god is all and in all. I think Joyce would like to think about god being in the most insignificant detail. Britain maintained total control of Ireland. Today, the biggest issue is how can England break with the EU (Brexit) since Northern Ireland (Protestant) is part of the UK. Ireland, the southern part, is NOT in the UK and is in the EU and will be staying in the EU. So, with the north coming out of the EU, that means they will need a border separating the north from the south. In the 60s, 70s, and 80s, there was a bloody civil war between north and south Ireland. That was worked out and it's been peaceful. This new thing means that a hard border will be needed (EU requirement) between the 2 Irelands. Will civil war break out? Who knows. There's a riddle.
@@TeachUBusiness Sorry for not mentioning; I'm a MA student from Kosovo
Hi Chris, I am from Melbourne, I have tried to read Ulysses for the last 15 years. The most I could do was to read 100 pages. This time, with your enjoyable help I am sure I will finish it. (I have read the other two books: Dubliners and The Portrait...
A short answer to the riddle. God is what you make of it. Man is the centre of the universe and if man says That is a Lion, it means he is pointing to a lion. I am a beginner but I see this ph
rase as showing a humanist Joyce. God is a shout in the crowd because he says so. Nobody che prove him wrong. Thanks very much for these wonderful videos
Hi Fernando! Thank you for your comments. I appreciate that you took the time to write. Thank you! If you feel bogged down at any point, please reach out. You are going to make it. Drop a comment after each chapter...I am excited to follow your progress. Cheers, mate!
"God is a shout in the street" is the kind of riddle you mention in this Episode 2. Stephan (James Joyce) says: "To learn one must be humble." Therein lies the answer to the ultimate riddle. We may never know the answer; we just have to learn (search) forever.
Brilliant contribution to the conversation, James! Thank you!
The Foot and Mouth Disease problem referred to in Deasy's letter was not in 1904 but in 1912. Blackwood-Price was a friend of Joyce's in Trieste and had in fact letters about the disease published in the press in 1912. Joyce was back in Ireland at the time. (Just a point for information.)
Psalm 144
14 our oxen will draw heavy loads.
There will be no breaching of walls,
no going into captivity,
no cry of distress in our streets.
I think he means God is everywhere (including in the mundane things), not just inside church or not just within the confines of organized religion. I view Stephen as still a believer, although questioning the Church / organized religion more than questioning the actual existence of God. ???
Yes! That's great insight. Stephen is not ready to let go of the Church though his faith is suffering many cracks.
Hello Chris and fellow readers. Here is something I thought while reading the second episode.
1) The first word is "You". It sounds like "You, reader, are in charge of waking up and changing your world/ You are responsable for history and its effects, because you should have studied it. If you had studied more history, you would have been able to understand more of your time".
2) Speaking about the students, Stephen thinks: "Welloff people, proud that their eldest son was in the navy". Over and over again in history leaders tended to make common people's life so difficult and dangerous that military service had usually been considered as the best possible option. After all why should I break my back working like an animal as a peasant in a field if I can just stand for some hours holding a rifle and get a generous pay for that?
3) Education is the key. The key that allows you in the real world, in real society, as a citizen. In ancient Greece, being a citizen used to carry a lot of duties. In exchange for the right of vote, citizens had to be engaged in pubblic affairs, and expose themselves to the judgment of others. That is why the episode starts with the world "You". That is why Mulligan says "We should hellenise Ireland".
4) Hockey is more educational than fake formal education delivered by Mr Deasy, at least for two reasons. First there is no need to speak when you play (you may simply enjoy screaming and yelling). Second, you like it, so you actively want to improve (like when you start to learn how to bake a chocolate cake as an amateur)
Wherever you are, I hope you are well, my friend.
OOPS, I WAS REFERRING TO THE PROTEUS SEGMENT. (I TOO CAN BE OBSCURE) OLIVER
Muy bueno!!
Gracias! Por favor, donde eres?
“ God (or the Devil) is in the details.” And in Joyce, the particular matters and nothing is trivial. So this line is an early warning, coming as it does before the seemingly random ramblings of Episode 3, that it is worth attending to everything. Also, the sentiment evokes Blake “To see the universe in a grain of sand.” Everything is connected for the creator, be that God or the artist or the reader who pays attention. And you can find meaningful beauty and depth in the commonplace if you care to do so. Stephen wants to; Deasy is too busy pontificating and too hidebound by tradition to do so.
Thank you for that enriching comment. As an avid bread maker, I find this book a bit like flour, water, salt, and yeast. Once mixed, those parts take on a life and are different every time I peek in. Some find the book too dense, even pretentious. I find it to be a glorious read that gives me something new everytime I venture back to June 16, 1904.
Joyce would have been fascinating, albeit difficult, to talk with. He must have had an amazing mental schema to handle all the details in this book. In a single day, he can run us through the emotional gamut. In Circe, the opening pages are horrific beyond Stephen King while Calypso is both touching and 'moving'; pun intended. I am so glad you joined the discussion.
With regards to "God is a shout in the street.", I think the fun is in the fact that, however profound this saying sounds, you can turn it on top of its head and say with an equal measure of profundity that "God is in the silence in the street" Come to think about it neither phrase makes us any the wiser really.
I think it is important that after saying "God is ...." Stephen shrugs his shoulders as if to say "I don't even know myself what I mean by this".
i think i will do as stephen did and "close my eyes to hear" ,"nacheinander",and try using an audio book version where possible and have each part on peremanent repeat to try and catch the subtilties and dig like the dog on the beach to search for "etwas", (germ.)something, an anagram, unusual, like his thought process, of "waste", ie stephens dead mothers body to allay his guilt of his disrespect..
Ah, now, there's a taste of the fun Joyce intended us to have! I love it! Thank you for adding so much to the conversation.
"God is a shout in the streets" - Stephen is positing his interpretation of consubstantiality. The holy spirit is in people's fears, it is in strangers' cries of anger or pain, anguish. The paradox: god is in common pain, god is in everything, united in father, son and holy spirit or creator, sufferer, and believer. God is the transmission, were all recievers if we turn on and tune in. I am unable to decipher if Stephen personally subscribes to what he is turned on to and in tuned with. He sees the voicings of god, i think his intellect and spirituality coexist to form his perspective that god is not an objective definition but a subjective emotion, a shout in the streets, felt uniquely by each. The multiple angle parallex, each persons' perspective of god are parts, fragmented pieces, which makes up a consubstantial whole, like the father, son, and spirit analogy.
Joyce has chosen words much like the horoscope in the paper. If the horoscope says, "expect a bonus today", then finding a penny on the street fulfills the prediction. We will find any event that suits it.
God is a shout in the street takes on different, while still common meaning to all readers. God is everywhere. God is in the minutiae?
Your interpretation is as good as any, which proves the point. Great comments. THank you for adding to the discussion.
I think Stephen is trying to say that God is life itself. We are God’s own thoughts. In the same way that every character, every word of Ulysses, is part of Joyce, so to are we all part of the conscience of “God”, the living spirit of the universe. I think he’s saying we should worship life and one another.
By the way, given the Hamlet references scattered throughout the first two episodes, I can’t help but see parallels between Stephen’s conversation with Deasy and Pollonius’ conversation with his son Laertes (which comes almost immediately after the other parallel between Martello Tower and Elsinore). Both conversations have an air of elder “wisdom” to the folly of youth, as well as having a tone of condescension and hypocrisy. I see more parallels with Hamlet in this episode that I do with The Odyssey. Just saying.
Great insights! I love it when people give thought to the book and don't merely try to get through it. It is packed with interesting ideas that are great fun to explore. I enjoy your thoughts and thank you for contributing.
Chris Reich thank you, Chris! I appreciate your videos. I’ve just started reading it myself. Two episodes in. I’ve had a copy of the gabler version on my shelves for about 5 years now. Lockdown has given me the perfect opportunity. I read Hamlet and The Odyssey in the past and recently read Dubliners and Portrait. I’m from the west of Scotland so I’m quite comfortable with the references to Irish history, it was Stephen’s stream of consciousness that always terrified me, and still does to be honest, haha! The message I’m getting so far from Stephen’s dreams and wishes of the future - new paganism; the average joes as gods or godlike heroes. I’m going to continue to read at least 50 pages a day and follow your videos. Keep up the good work, my friend!
Ive read this chapter and felt discouraged by complexity of internal.monologue and rechrerche references.After your excellent talk I feel lee afraid and will have another go.
How are you doing? Don't quit! We're all here to support you. Thank you for commenting. Chris
Marcelo Zabaloy, en su traducción al castellano, anota PR 1:20-22 para esta sentencia del diálogo:
20.- La sabiduría clama en las calles,
Alza su voz en las plazas;
21.- Clama en los principales lugares de reunión;
En las entradas de las puertas de la ciudad dice sus razones.
22.- ¿Hasta cuándo, oh simples, amaréis la simpleza,
Y los burladores desearán el burlar,
Y los insensatos aborrecerán la ciencia?
Perhaps he means meaninglessness, in contrast to Deasy’s, “one great goal,” assertion.
That's a good thought. Thank you for adding to the discussion. Every comment helps another reader.
I am not sure the Irish never had good old days. What about monasticism, 6th to 9th century?
Hi Chris, I know I'm a little late to the party, but I wanted to add my two cents.
I've been thinking a lot about God being a shout in the street, reading various comments and trying to understand them and fit them into my interpretation of the book. I read a lot of book by authors who are extremely atheist or anti-god so this has probably coloured my view of this book.
To me that sentence has felt atheistic, that God is a shout on the street: a distorted echo that is misinterpreted or has no meaning.
I'm not sure if that is what is meant, I understand that Joyce was not a fan of Catholicism and so Stephen isn't either. If this translates of an atheistic worldview or if he still had some faith I'm not sure. But when I read the first two chapters and came across this line I thought it was Stephen leaning into his resentment(?) of the church and religion.
I hope I could explain this well, I'm not sure how to explain it any better.
Honestly I prefer to think that there is some different meaning to that sentence, a more hopeful meaning.
I think there is hope in that line, Hannah. The old conservative Catholicism had a narrow view of god. Joyce is saying that god is everywhere . The kids are playing and that's god. When Deasy is confused, Stephen says god is a shout in the street....or is all and in all. Joyce loved zooming in and seeing detail...and this love of detail leads to the same place....
@@TeachUBusiness Yeah, I much prefer that idea. Thank you, greeting from Ireland by the way!
I’ve been reading a section, then listening your commentary (which I love). Maybe I’m looking at Stephen the wrong way (especially since he’s meant to be Joyce) , but he seems so mean spirited: a son who refuses to humor his mother as she’s dying for some petty ideology, a teacher with such contempt for his young students. Please explain how I’m wrong. I’ve never heard anyone talk trash on Stephen before. He just seems so cynical
I've been reading Ulysses now for several weeks, currently in chapter 11, and it is anything but fun. No one here can reasonably deny that most of the work is psychotic gibberish.
I deny that most of the work is psychotic gibberish. If you don't understand it, relax and move on.
I take it as god is as unimportant as a shout in the streets. Definitely an atheist.
Thanks for commenting. Joyce rebelled but was never able to escape. I think the comment says that God is all and in all. Not unimportant, but in the things we experience every day. But I can only speculate...
"That is God"
Stephen refuses to kneel at his mother's death bed. Knowing that Joyce went to his dying mother, dressed in black but did not participate in the rituals, I assume, that Joyce is against the claustrophobic Catholicism of his youth. By making such a remark, That is God, he is brushing off all that, which is ritual and form and the fossilised institution of the Church. Not knowing any better we must think of him as having an idea of the Divine that does not include the Church, but seems to favour a natural and universal spirituality. The boys shout while having fun, Stephen likes to associate God with the happy side of life. He answers to Mr Deasy's statement that history is a manifestation of God. For Stephen himself and Ireland's history under the Catholic Church, history has been one of oppression. (doesn't he wake up to the nightmare of history?) By saying “That is God” he tears the paper ceiling, he takes the lid off the boiling pot.
The book starts with a mockery of the Mass with Mulligan holding a bowl of lather as a chalice and “officiating” its rituals and mannerism. There are not half a dozen lines in the book without some reference, some terminology that have their sources in religion.
May be is too early for me to say but it appears that Joyce, while mocking the religion and being irreverent towards it, he is very much glued to it, like a fly in the web, unable to escape it, trying but totally covering himself in its strands.
Brilliant, my friend.
Of course there's not one "correct" meaning. Many different meanings can be extracted from great art even those not intended by the artist. For me "god is a shout in the street", in addition to the suggestions in these comments, is Stephen (Joyce) simply taking the mickey out of Deasy's belief in humanity moving towards the great "goal" It's a great joke!
Buddhism. Not su much Chinese... (about God being a shout in the street). Who can say what Joyce knew about Asian stuff?
Maybe he figured it out on his own...