Setting aside how terrifying Zito looks he's right. If what you're getting in return gets you over the top even if it's not as valuable then you made the right move.
90% of us would've done the Tkachuk trade in a second as calgary GM 's . Especially since we were loosing Tkachuk anyway. It still looks like a steal on paper.
I still think if Huberdeau can get back to a 90 point pace, that deal still would have turned out alright for Calgary even with Tkachuk winning a cup. I guess the bigger issue is that he was bad for the 2 year stretch where the Flames were trying to go for it, and they ended up moving all of their vet pieces.
Agreed. The trade in a vacuum could have been win-win, if they'd then turned around, flipped Huberdeau and started the rebuild. Miscalculation of contention windows seems to be the most tragic mistake in North American pro sports.
I think the thing is, if you don't expect Huberdeau to decline so much, it's still a matter of a 29 year old who needs a new contract for big money. Weegar also being in his late 20s, the worst case scenario for Florida would have been losing the trade for the first few years, but being better off down the road. Calgary OTOH, like you said, had to trade from a position of weakness and if Huberdeau had even had a couple 75 point seasons, would have looked like "Did the best they could with a bad situation".
Most panthers fans knew that huby had his best season and wouldn’t get any better. We also knew that a lot of it was barkov making him look good. I was more concerned about losing weegar… but forsling became who he is so it worked out. I love huby but he is streaky as hell and disappears in big games. But I hope he comes back to end his career
Timing is everything. FLA learned a valuable lesson two years ago. The way FLA was winning in the regular season was not sustainable in playoffs. Zito made significant changes after the sweep. Moves that took a massive amount of guts. Those changes likely don't happen if there's no sweep or second round exit that year
There’s two major trades that happened around that time that me, as a Kings fan, struggle to cope with, esp concerning the PLD trade. Vegas traded for Jack Eichel….Florida trades for tkachuk. The Kings could have easily made those moves but they put all of their best trade assets in on PLD.
@@DGL-LDG I didn’t mind Dorion’s moves. They were all pretty much high-risk, high reward. Just most of the risks backfired. Chychrun was needed (and IMO still needed) with Chabot being made of glass. Playing him or Brannstrom on the right was dumb though. Having a left side of Tkachuk / DeBrincat should have been exciting. Too bad DeBrincat acted like a primadona thinking he should be playing higher and more minutes than Brady and not trying when he was slotted below him. Hammer has been a great veteran depth piece that younger players like JBD and Lassi should have been pushing for playing time. Too bad one’s a bust and the other barely just figured out his game last year.
Don Maloney has been President of Hockey Operations for the Flames since April of 2023. At no point was he above Brad Treliving in Calgary. Really funny Adam picked him to throw shade at.
Weegar is one of those guys that’s great in fantasy but not so much in real life. Turnover machine, Panther fans wanted to dump him for years. Game 2 against Tampa was the last straw
It's clear you guys don't know much about the Flames, Brad had an opportunity to sign Tkachuk long term but instead offered him a 3x7 deal because Brad valued Frolik (who was traded in season) too much and he also had the opportunity to sign Gaudreau long term the offseason before he walked. Brad played every card he had wrong, and his poor cap management was ultimately his biggest problem in Calgary. Brad Treliving is the most mediocre GM in the NHL and his track record in Calgary backs that up, he was really good earlier in the rebuild but was never to add and key pieces afterwards, the amount of time as a flames fan I would hear Calgary was in on x superstar but wouldn't match x team gives me nightmares.
Well said. Many ppl dont know the back story. That being said. It really hurts what Brad did to us. Signing long term deal to Huby before he even plays a game is brutal.
Bill Zito's philosophy on trade reminds me of that economic paradox of diamonds and water. The paradox being that someone stranded on a desert island with a chest full of diamonds, is probably willing to trade those diamonds in exchange for water. Even though the diamonds are worth way more than the water.
@@jonah.donohue ran back with the core 2X in his 2 years, let Bert walk, didn’t solve the offensive issue, the power play issue, the goalie issue. Not trading Nylander, but doubling down was a major issue. What he didn’t do wrong….. he just didn’t do at all. Over paid for veteran Defense…..
It's actually done all the time in the NHL. Teams trade futures, like first round picks for a 30 year old who can get your team to win the cup. It's very common...
I am almost tempted to offer to go halfsies on a Maple Leafs #16 sweater with "Ogden" on the name plate if the other person lives in Toronto and will wear it to games😆
9:43 This does not sound like Darryl Sutter. He doesn't strike me as the kind of person who gets forced into anything. Maybe Brad Treliving didn't want Sutter, but if Sutter didn't want to work under Tree, I don't think he would have.
Cap space gained is only valuable when used right - remember when Nonis bought out Grabovski to sign Clarkson? But yes Zito is right if the plan is executed correctly
My Flames hot take is Huberdeau bought in to Sutter too much and it was not his style of game whatsoever. Then they went from Sutter to Sutter underling so its just the same thing.
Don’t kid yourself. Flames have terrible ownership. Nothing has worked since they’ve been trying to get a new building. Let’s hope their practices could change by the time the new one opens. Not holding my breath.
I was going to comment that one of the reasons it's not so hard for Zito to move a 115 point player is that people will line up to fill his cap space on a winning team in a no-tax state.
@kurtwpg if you look at his stats, that season was a fluke...he had Barkov feeding him pucks all season. He wanted the big contract and Zito sent him to a team that was foolish enough to give it to him.
Just a sec' Leafs media, you're trying to blow smoke up my backside ..... I realize that Zito won the cup, but he also gave away 3 First round picks FASTER then the 3 Colorado Rockies first round picks made in June, July and Oct/Nov of 81 (1981, 1982, 1983 Drafts). you wanna check who New Jersey gave up on, cause one of your panel members is a New Jersey fan (if you mention Mclean and Trottier, you're wrong, they made prior trades to those two picks who were traded away for Ramage) ?? Jesse, the Flames didn't lose Gaudreau, Treliving lost Gaudreau. Gaudreau had a Modified NTC, essentially a 5 team trade list in 21-22... Treliving signed that contract October of 2016 and didn't trade Gaudreau prior to 21-22 season even though he knew of the clause because he, Treliving, signed it?? Jesse, you can hold the GM responsible when TRELIVING signed that modified NTC, he knew of the dates, and received NOTHING for Gaudreau walking away. Subsequently, LEAFS sign/hire Treliving after blundering these moves with the Flames.
Marner isn’t the problem. Kyle dubas for one was a garbage gm who completely destroyed this team. He traded all our good players and premium assets for trash. The players he brought in were trash, trades and decisions he made were trash. Stop blaming marner and stop blaming Sammy.
Zito is an absolute genius. Love having him here in Florida!!!
Setting aside how terrifying Zito looks he's right. If what you're getting in return gets you over the top even if it's not as valuable then you made the right move.
90% of us would've done the Tkachuk trade in a second as calgary GM 's . Especially since we were loosing Tkachuk anyway. It still looks like a steal on paper.
I still think if Huberdeau can get back to a 90 point pace, that deal still would have turned out alright for Calgary even with Tkachuk winning a cup. I guess the bigger issue is that he was bad for the 2 year stretch where the Flames were trying to go for it, and they ended up moving all of their vet pieces.
Agreed. The trade in a vacuum could have been win-win, if they'd then turned around, flipped Huberdeau and started the rebuild. Miscalculation of contention windows seems to be the most tragic mistake in North American pro sports.
@@quercusquercus532 if that was the case they shouldn't have signed Kadri, your argument is hindsight.
@@quercusquercus532 but adding Kadri off that cup run with the avalanche also looked like a pretty good move.
I think the thing is, if you don't expect Huberdeau to decline so much, it's still a matter of a 29 year old who needs a new contract for big money. Weegar also being in his late 20s, the worst case scenario for Florida would have been losing the trade for the first few years, but being better off down the road. Calgary OTOH, like you said, had to trade from a position of weakness and if Huberdeau had even had a couple 75 point seasons, would have looked like "Did the best they could with a bad situation".
Most panthers fans knew that huby had his best season and wouldn’t get any better. We also knew that a lot of it was barkov making him look good. I was more concerned about losing weegar… but forsling became who he is so it worked out. I love huby but he is streaky as hell and disappears in big games. But I hope he comes back to end his career
Zito looks like he spiked his coffee
Bro is still on his booger sugar cup rush
I see why Florida won the cup
Timing is everything. FLA learned a valuable lesson two years ago. The way FLA was winning in the regular season was not sustainable in playoffs. Zito made significant changes after the sweep. Moves that took a massive amount of guts. Those changes likely don't happen if there's no sweep or second round exit that year
Best GM in the league!
There’s two major trades that happened around that time that me, as a Kings fan, struggle to cope with, esp concerning the PLD trade. Vegas traded for Jack Eichel….Florida trades for tkachuk. The Kings could have easily made those moves but they put all of their best trade assets in on PLD.
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This is why as a Senators fan, I like what Steve Staois is doing. It’s not about the best player, it’s about the best fit.
As a sens fan, the hardest part was fighting with people that Dorion tried to square peg a round hole in almost every trade…
@@DGL-LDG I didn’t mind Dorion’s moves. They were all pretty much high-risk, high reward. Just most of the risks backfired.
Chychrun was needed (and IMO still needed) with Chabot being made of glass. Playing him or Brannstrom on the right was dumb though.
Having a left side of Tkachuk / DeBrincat should have been exciting. Too bad DeBrincat acted like a primadona thinking he should be playing higher and more minutes than Brady and not trying when he was slotted below him.
Hammer has been a great veteran depth piece that younger players like JBD and Lassi should have been pushing for playing time. Too bad one’s a bust and the other barely just figured out his game last year.
“He looked at the stanley cup and they won it” 😂😂😂😂
Don Maloney has been President of Hockey Operations for the Flames since April of 2023. At no point was he above Brad Treliving in Calgary. Really funny Adam picked him to throw shade at.
In Zito we trust.
Weegar is one of those guys that’s great in fantasy but not so much in real life. Turnover machine, Panther fans wanted to dump him for years. Game 2 against Tampa was the last straw
So right...I bet he relives that 3 sec screwup every night...play to the buzzer, Weeger...
Steve should get Bill Zito to narrate his audiobook
It's clear you guys don't know much about the Flames, Brad had an opportunity to sign Tkachuk long term but instead offered him a 3x7 deal because Brad valued Frolik (who was traded in season) too much and he also had the opportunity to sign Gaudreau long term the offseason before he walked. Brad played every card he had wrong, and his poor cap management was ultimately his biggest problem in Calgary. Brad Treliving is the most mediocre GM in the NHL and his track record in Calgary backs that up, he was really good earlier in the rebuild but was never to add and key pieces afterwards, the amount of time as a flames fan I would hear Calgary was in on x superstar but wouldn't match x team gives me nightmares.
Well said. Many ppl dont know the back story. That being said. It really hurts what Brad did to us. Signing long term deal to Huby before he even plays a game is brutal.
Bill Zito's philosophy on trade reminds me of that economic paradox of diamonds and water. The paradox being that someone stranded on a desert island with a chest full of diamonds, is probably willing to trade those diamonds in exchange for water. Even though the diamonds are worth way more than the water.
I kinda look and talk like Zito...... after I leave the afterhours on a 3 day bender
Petition to bring a hat-picks/dang-its to sdpn
Steve should be horrified that Brad is now their GM lol
He's better than Dubas i guess though that's not saying muchv
He hasn’t done anything bad yet
@@jonah.donohue ran back with the core 2X in his 2 years, let Bert walk, didn’t solve the offensive issue, the power play issue, the goalie issue. Not trading Nylander, but doubling down was a major issue. What he didn’t do wrong….. he just didn’t do at all. Over paid for veteran Defense…..
@@brendancramphorn44 shanny wouldn't let him trade any of the core 4 last year and this yeah they all had nmc. Not really on him
@jonah.donohue Reaves deal. OEL deal. Hasn't fixed 3C. Hasn't fixed top 6 LW. Hasn't moved off the core.
Make no mistake - Treliving sucks
Wasn’t it the Summer of Pierre the year before the Summer of Brad? Hahaha
It's actually done all the time in the NHL. Teams trade futures, like first round picks for a 30 year old who can get your team to win the cup. It's very common...
I am almost tempted to offer to go halfsies on a Maple Leafs #16 sweater with "Ogden" on the name plate if the other person lives in Toronto and will wear it to games😆
I'm a Panthers STH, I thought we gave up too much at the time. Did we have to give Weegar and a 1st? Now, bargin of the century.
Bill Zito would kick all of our asses.
With his power to stare into our souls alone. In Zito we trust.
1 Bon Ogden or 3x Ross Boston
This hurts watching as a Flames fan. They lost Huberdeau and Weager but they ended up winning the cup
God damn Bob Ogden
9:43 This does not sound like Darryl Sutter. He doesn't strike me as the kind of person who gets forced into anything. Maybe Brad Treliving didn't want Sutter, but if Sutter didn't want to work under Tree, I don't think he would have.
Cap space gained is only valuable when used right - remember when Nonis bought out Grabovski to sign Clarkson? But yes Zito is right if the plan is executed correctly
Now let’s hope Treliving will keep deconstructing his current team and will again fail miserably!
My Flames hot take is Huberdeau bought in to Sutter too much and it was not his style of game whatsoever. Then they went from Sutter to Sutter underling so its just the same thing.
Bill Zito on that Dr. Rockso diet.
my maserati does 185!!
Uhh Thachuk by far even at the time was the best player
Nice
Don’t kid yourself. Flames have terrible ownership. Nothing has worked since they’ve been trying to get a new building. Let’s hope their practices could change by the time the new one opens. Not holding my breath.
Victory puppies
Trade secrets? Moving in Florida..
Sabu!!
Warm weather
No state income tax
fleece Canadian teams for their Elite Players
Works for every other warm weather city accept Phoenix lol
I was going to comment that one of the reasons it's not so hard for Zito to move a 115 point player is that people will line up to fill his cap space on a winning team in a no-tax state.
@kurtwpg if you look at his stats, that season was a fluke...he had Barkov feeding him pucks all season. He wanted the big contract and Zito sent him to a team that was foolish enough to give it to him.
@@ryananderson5202 it didn’t work in Florida either until Zito. For all the advantages, they don’t mean anything if the front office is incompetent
I prefer Basil Ziti
Cocaine is a helluva drug
Looks like it the side effect is winning the Stanley cup
Just a sec' Leafs media, you're trying to blow smoke up my backside ..... I realize that Zito won the cup, but he also gave away 3 First round picks FASTER then the 3 Colorado Rockies first round picks made in June, July and Oct/Nov of 81 (1981, 1982, 1983 Drafts). you wanna check who New Jersey gave up on, cause one of your panel members is a New Jersey fan (if you mention Mclean and Trottier, you're wrong, they made prior trades to those two picks who were traded away for Ramage) ??
Jesse, the Flames didn't lose Gaudreau, Treliving lost Gaudreau. Gaudreau had a Modified NTC, essentially a 5 team trade list in 21-22... Treliving signed that contract October of 2016 and didn't trade Gaudreau prior to 21-22 season even though he knew of the clause because he, Treliving, signed it?? Jesse, you can hold the GM responsible when TRELIVING signed that modified NTC, he knew of the dates, and received NOTHING for Gaudreau walking away. Subsequently, LEAFS sign/hire Treliving after blundering these moves with the Flames.
Treliving doesn’t know the contracts of his own players if he didn’t sign them himself?! Why not?
Marner isn’t the problem. Kyle dubas for one was a garbage gm who completely destroyed this team. He traded all our good players and premium assets for trash. The players he brought in were trash, trades and decisions he made were trash. Stop blaming marner and stop blaming Sammy.
But they all love Dubas ... Even though he's done nothing in his hockey career
Treliving is even worst than Dubas at deconstructing. The next decade is going to be so fun to watch!
does Adam’s fake laugh bother anyone else besides me?
Point taken… but that’s the worst analogy I’ve ever heard