Jesus and the Roman Empire | Gregory Aldrete and Lex Fridman
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.ย. 2024
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The church structure began in the very beginning, just after the Day of Penecost when Christian salvation baptism first began, as a plurality of Elders and deacons in an autonomous congregation. If he's referring to the hierarchy of the Catholic church, which is not the church God through his prophets and apostles laid out, then yes that wasn't until hundreds of years later. Also the earliest converts to were not slave women, though there are examples of them in the epistles, but Jewish converts; "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile." Romans 1:16 Just wanted an honest man like yourself to have the proper information.
Quran (only scripture with 100% accuracy/preservation) says Allah is “Al-Ahad”(one/indivisible).Philosophically, It is impossible for 3 distinct perfections to exist simultaneously. Father (Perfection 1/distinct1) =Son (Perfection 2/distinct2)=idolatry.This is due to addition of two extra perfections that are Co-equal/Co-eternal&distinct with Allah(the most Exalted) and therefore “son” will always limit the “Father” , therefore rendering both limited/imperfect. Allah(perfection) is by definition infinite and cannot be limited by distinct perfection #2.(Son). Not just the Quran, but also the old/New Testament textually establish tauheed(monotheism): John 17:3. So, then why believe in trinity and associate two imaginary parts to Allah(one/indivisible/Self-Sufficient/All-Loving)? How could your love/worship be undivided/exclusive for Allah(the most Exalted) when there are two other equally unique/perfect entities to adore? The verses of bible used by trinitarians are extremely vague and require hard interpretation to extract the understanding that Father/Son/Holy Ghost are Co-equal/Co-Eternal&distinct….
@bluesky45299 just stop : your ignorance has been answered thousands of times
"We applaud the Serpent of Colonialism in breathing its last breath" Haile SelASSIE I- GOD IN FLESH
His Crucifixion bound Roman Colonialism into a dark age for a 1000 years, His Reincarnation as King end European Colonialism forever ... Praise the One who sits on King David throne
@@davidjanbaz7728 I would recommend studying chapter 112 of Quran(only 4 verses) to understand the essence of perfect/infinite entity. Remember the essence of Allah(perfection/infinity/self-sufficient/ being uncaused/indivisble) cannot be shared/experience by any creature and is exclusive to Allah(the most exalted) alone. Trinity seeks to attribute essence of Allah(one/indivisible perfection) to the Son(finite/imperfect).According to prophet muhammad(peace be upon him)The chapter 112 of Quran is considered to equate to 1/3 of Quran in its importance. 1.Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “He is Allah-One ˹and Indivisible˺; 2.Allah-the Sustainer ˹needed by all˺. 3.He has never had offspring, nor was He born. 4.And there is none comparable to Him.
The 2nd issue arises with the preservation of New Testament itself. How do I know new testment equates to gospels that were revealed to prophet jesus(peace be upon him).There is not a single manuscript(except p-52) that exists post 300 years prophet Jesus(peace be upon him). What happened in those 300 years? The manuscripts that are available are in Greek, the very language Jesus Christ did-not communicate to disciples in.
I think he's leaving out a crucial aspect of what made Christianity so popular. Yes, it did provide for salvation and heaven - an appealing message - but what the Romans witnessed in the coliseum with regards to the torturing and killing of Christians brought great sympathy and respect for that cult. If you look at the story of Saint Euphemia she was to be eaten by a Lion but the beast wasn't feeling it that day and so the emperor ordered a gladiator to kill her. He naturally hesitated during which she grabbed his sword and committed suicide. The Romans valued courage and often saw tremendous resolve from Christians who seemed to be happy dying for their God. It was rare for a Roman to show that kind of willingness to die for, say, Jupiter or Mars.
@@paulpena5040 and then she went to hell because suicide is punished by you're soul burning for all eternity. Contradiction.
@@webavra394that’s not true. Blasphemy is the only unforgivable sin. We all have sinned. Her choice of suicide over a worse death is no more of a sin than anything you have done in your life. If she has accepted Jesus in her heart as lord and savior she is saved
I don't think she committed suicide. Might wanna look into this more before spewing it everywhere friend.
Furthermore, number of reported miracles witnessed by the guards during torture of martyrs is incredible...that's how it spread through the army
According to tradition, Saint Euphemia died in the arena at Chalcedon in 303 AD for refusing to offer sacrifices to Ares. She was subjected to various tortures, including the wheel, but remained steadfast in her faith. In the end, she was thrown to the beasts, including lions and a bear and died from a wound sustained from the bear. However her body wasn’t eaten by any of the animals, they refused to. She didn’t commit suicide, this is a mortal sin. But I agree that the willingness to die for Christ was massively influential, the death of St Ignatius of Antioch was incredibly impactful and the letters he wrote on the way to Rome solidified that impact for centuries.
When Christianity first arose in the world nobody called it a religion. Even the Romans called Christianity the anti-religion. For two hundred years, the Romans thought Christians were atheists. When the Christian Polycrap was being martyred, the angry Roman crowds shout out “away with the atheists!” (see the text Martyrdom of Polycarp. They made no sacrifices and had no temple dedicated to their God.
The reason why is because what Christians were saying about God was so radically different than what any religion has claimed in history. Jesus is the most anti-religious founder of any religion. Moreover, his claim to be unique son of God (which was a title reserved for Caesar-it was literally on the coins), was a direct challenge to what Rome believed in.
Hm, so the Romans recognized Christianity was horseshit. Lol. Still is.
Atheist because they refused to worship the pagan gods and offer sacrifices them.
A direct challenge to their power
The concept of what constitutes a religion was vastly different for Romans and Jews (and later Christians and Moslems). For Christians a religion is synonymous to faith. You have to believe in something or other. For Romans faith was irrelevant. It doesn't matter what you believe in. All that matters is that you offer a tiny sacrifice every once in a while. And since the religion and the state were essentially the same, not sacrificing means questioning the authority of the state. That's the one thing the Romans couldn't tolerate.
POLYCRAP loooooool funny comment. Thanks for the lols
Pliny was an aristocrat who witnessed the eruption of Vesuvius in 79 Anno Domini. He was friendly with one of the most brilliant Roman historians of all time, Tacitus, through his uncle, Pliny the Elder. The Younger was fiercely intelligent, and I'm willing to bet he knew a little more about Christians than he let on in his letters to Tiberius... early Roman officials thought Christians were cannibals... their understanding of the Eucharist being obviously skewed... an incredibly fascinating period of Roman history... especially through the lens of Pliny's letters as an eyewitness to Vesuvius.
Fantastic interview, by the way.
Great guest. I love historians
I appreciated the insights. It was odd that he glossed over the disgusting persecutions that early Christians faced. I don't use the word disgusting lightly. I've been learning a lot while reading Eusebius' The Early Church. Perhaps he went into more detail in the longer version though. It's also sad that people who called themselves Christ-ians turned and persecuted pagans. I'm sure thats demoralizing to anyone looking at history. It's just important not to throw the baby out with the bath water -- What Christ taught goes completely against what some people have done in the name of being a Christian. In the end, Jesus came to save us from our terrible slavery to sin -- and its eventual punishment of eternal hell. That's what its really all about. Eternal life with the One who created you and loves you so much He came down and suffered for all your wrong doing, even while you hated him.
Every propagandist says “baby killers!” You have to read from texts outside your own tradition to get a more balanced understanding.
Don’t you realize how disgusting the idea of being born as sinners is ? I’m honestly surprised by how a lot of people don’t understand what a shameful thing abrahimitic faiths are.
Christ conquered the heart of the empire that persecuted Him and His people. Beautiful.
Religion is controlling how people act , in a world of violence and anarchy, that is incredibly powerful.
Lol it was a pure political move.
@@chrisofbangkok cope
Truly poetic
Jesus conquered death the bible says and he ressurected and is still alive today. Hes just off earth rn, but he's alive like we are rn like his body because he can't die now. Hmm God can't die what do you know wonder how that works you can read the bible if you want and fond out how why etc God can't die in the sense of what most know God to be one of the qualities he's immortal. He is Jesus is alive rn like you are believe it or not he is. He is off earth in heaven which is called the secret place we don't know where that is but he is alive rn actually
The question is whether the Pharisees pledged allegiance to the Emperor deity ?
Jesus really should have his own Netflix special by now, imagine the dad jokes.
The love of Christ is the brightest light in life.
Christ is King
Christ is Myth
@@SgtSnausagesnobody agrees with you
King of fiction
Well, I'm the king of king of kings. I'm greater.
Amen brother!
Christ is King! 👑
Mark 10:18:
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good-except God alone."
Matthew 21:11:
"The crowds answered, 'This is Jesus, the prophet from Nazareth in Galilee.'"
Luke 13:33:
"In any case, I must press on today and tomorrow and the next day-for surely no prophet can die outside Jerusalem!"
Mark 6:4:
"Jesus said to them, 'A prophet is not without honor except in his own town, among his relatives and in his own home.'"
John 12:49-50:
"For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say."
Hebrews 3:1:
"Therefore, holy brothers and sisters, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, whom we acknowledge as our apostle and high priest."
Your own bible says otherwise 😂
Santa Claus is queen
Allah is the greatest☪️⚔️
Yes he is. Pray for these atheists in the comment section.
Christianity is really attractive from the perspective of a historian: "You are going to be the same as others, but you are going to be crucified and you are going to win a place in a paradise that you cannot see." On the other hand, from the same perspective Christianity was very attractive to the emperor: "hmm, I have to change the entire basis of the culture of my society, with the enormous cost and discontent that that means, so I assure my legitimacy, because surely no one else will be able to say that God chose him, I am the only intelligent being who can say that." I suspect that it is now understood why a historian usually starves to death in a non-academic medium ..
Wow man, your argument was solid until you threw the insult at the end. Not very Christian like. He’s just giving his perspective as a historian not attacking your faith.
@@gerardkiff2026
Why would the truth be an attack? Where would a historian work if not in academia? on the other hand, if your only possible workplace is academia, isolated from real life, I suspect that in the real economy you would "starve to death".
Then it is interesting how someone who does not have a real pressure, that is, to suffer the consequences in real life of the fruit of his labor, can so cheerfully throw out with such certainty such simplistic theories.
By the way that simplicity of reasoning and the certainty in his statement (let's say lack of intellectual humility), certainly constitutes an attack on the faith, since he rules out that it was the power of God that made the church grow, from a gang of ragamuffins to an organization that changed the whole world ..
I think as a principle, a historian should not discount the spiritual reasons given by Constantine for legalizing Christianity and for later converting. To dismiss this as a part of the explanation seems more ideological than historical.
According to multiple accounts, Constantine’s mother, Helena, to whom he was very devoted, was an enthusiastic Christian. Constantine himself claimed to have seen a Christian vision of the cross before battle at Milvian Bridge, and also claimed to receive a second vision about putting the cross on his soldiers shields.
Constantine’s predecessor, Diocletian, instituted one of the most violent pogroms against Christians. So Constantine’s change in direction was quite radical, further indicating the possibility that his sudden support for the Christians and their faith was more than just cynical politics.
Since these are historical facts reported in reliable contemporary sources, they should not simply be dismissed by a historian as something only “normal” people should consider.
Very well explained. Thank you.
Love this!
As he pointed out, Constantine used the whole symbol in the sky thing before using Pagan gods. There is nothing in the historical record that shows Constantine converted for religious reasons. Your entire desire for him to do it for religious reasons is complete speculation based on what you want to believe rather than what the historical record shows. By every indication, Constantine was a political animal who was an expert in propaganda.
True, Lots of evidence that, at least the initial conversion of the Roman Empire, was a spiritual one through Constantine. His biography does show he was a conscientious man and decent ruler.
Right. Just because historic figures can lie about their motives (the same way leaders can today), doesn't mean we should assume this. The fact that Constantine provided this experience as the reason for his conversion is an important data point that one would have to disprove (which isn't really possible). You can construct an argument for why it was merely political or something, but you can't take that as the base assumption.
Ave Christus Rex ✝️🕊️
☪️💪
Jesus is alive rn
@@ahmedOsama81931 ☦Ethiopia
@@Amdatsion what ?
Christianity is at its heart a revolutionary doctrine of all being equal before god and treating others how you treat yourself. No wonder the Roman’s saw it as a threat
Sounds kind of left leaning...
The Christian bible wasn’t yet created when Constantine was emperor. Jesus was an apocalyptic prophet.
At that time Jesus was not considered God lol.
@@Stable_GeniusJesus was pretty left-wing in general, except for his teachings on morality and sin. I guess you could call that an adaptation of the Jewish Ten Commandments.
in theory... if only this was applied in practice
Lex was looking for "love" for the answer, instead the historian got into factual analysis.
lolol "Love. Is the answer." Fridman
Gregory Aldrete is the reincarnation of Soprano’s Tony.
Christianity appealed to many because it freed their minds and spirit, even if their bodies were still enslaved. It showed that under God, all have equal worth, even if not all are equal.
The Christian God asked nothing that He would not do for us, including self-sacrifice. Christ offered love and salvation as a free gift, wanting nothing in return for it to be earned. That love drove them to care for those that needed it, to love those that did not know what it was to be loved. They did all that because HE did all that first, for them, because He loved Us so.
This is the coolest classics historian ever. I want to go back to school and take his classes!
Basically the entire religion has been warped through politics
Nah, we did it on purpose. We serve a different King.
The entire religion was created through politics lol.
Essentially, yeah, politicians know how to use anything to their advantage and will warp anything for their own personal gain. The Roman emperors saw Christianity as a popular cause that was growing amongst the commoners and slaves. They hijacked it to keep themselves alive from any brewing revolts, but to also place themselves at the top of a religious hierarchy that they created for it. After the schism, Western Rome would eventually fall along with their emperor, but the Pope would replace the head of their hierarchy for Christians in Western Europe as Catholics. In Eastern Rome, the Emperor in Constantinople remained roughly at the top of Christianity in Orthodox churches.
Despite the early Roman leaders who minted themselves as “Christians” many of them simply used this religious conversion of theirs just to keep their people in check. The apostle Paul had preached to everyone that “all men are equal in Christ,” yet the Roman leaders continued to practice slavery while using the religion to keep their slaves from turning against them.
No the entire religion has been the same since its inception
@@stevehopkins2657are you talking about Islam?
This is craziest thing to me about this, Roman emperors having account of Jesus. It’s really insane to me since Roman history is well documented
hmmmm🤔....
@@perzonne6302 ?
He meant, not having an account....
@@stevehopkins2657 no there’s is accounts..
Why would they? Can you show me records of all the other Jews crucified by Romans? I'll wait...
Pontius Pilate found no guilt in Christ and wanted to release him but the Jews coerced him.
Watch the historically accurate movie "The Life of Brian" by acclaimed historians "Monty Python" for further detail.
For all americans out there: this is a joke.
Jesus is King.
Rome the mother of world the eternal city and the return of the imperum
This guy is a classic historian.
He assumes that ancient Christians would have the same practices as modern Christians. It is likely that Pliny had good information about the activities of the Christians that his security people had observed.
Also no reference to Gibbons.
or chimpanzees
interesting chat. it must be mentioned that true Christianity isn't just about securing a deal for a nice afterlife. it's about realizing you are a sinner who has offended a holy God, you have no way to save yourself from sin, and only forgiveness and restoration to the Father come through Jesus Christ. the first century believers who were reconciled to Christ but brutally killed by the romans for their faith, died in the knowledge that they were forgiven and had hope for spiritual deliverance in Christ.
Mental gymnastics
I get why the concept of equality was threatening to Rome, but weren't the Jews already monotheistic by this time (and following the ten commandments)? Why would those two concepts have been odd or posed a new threat to the empire?
All governments have a problem when the status quo is disrupted
Because the Christian message was universal for all people and they were seeking to convert everyone. The Jews generally didn’t seek converts and kept to themselves unless they were rebelling.
There was not equal access to God in Judaism. You'd have to be a Jew, then usually only males could go into certain places and among the men only priests etc. Jesus opened the way for anyone to have direct relationship with God through living the perfect life we should have lived and dying the death we deserved for not having done that. He fulfilled the Law and freely offers forgiveness and salvation to anyone that would repent of their sins and believe in HIm. It was a universal and unconditional offer to anyone anywhere.
There were several men who aspired to be the messiah. John the Baptist was offed because his message was threatening to the status quo. Jesus effectively picked up where he left off. Some scholars theorize that Jesus was so convinced of his own divinity ( remember his own family questioned his sanity), he really thought he could go to Jerusalem on Passover and God would help him to expel the Romans. Instead the Jewish leadership had him removed as an enemy to the state and their relationship with Rome (the status quo again).
Fast forward 15-20 years, the Cult of Jesus was still very small and exclusively for Jews only. Must obey Jewish law and all that means. Paul comes along and effectively hijacks the religion from Peter and James by letting gentiles become Christians without following Jewish law. In hindsight, marketing genius or else Jesus would just be a footnote today. Paul was still a revolutionary and believed the end of the world as they knew it was close, even advising people not to bother getting married because there was no point. He was eventually imprisoned and his life ended (for trying to upset the status quo)
Go another 20 years and the First Jewish War, another crushed aspiring Messiah, and now the Second Temple and Jerusalem is methodically destroyed by the Romans. It is difficult to express today how devastating this would be to Jewish people, the epicenter of their entire faith and world is a smoldering ruin. It is not a coincidence that only then the written gospels start to be written with curious and convenient "quotes" from Jesus two generations previously about how He was the temple now. The Gospel of Mark was the earliest and written after the temple was destroyed.
There were other revolts and professed Messiahs like Simon bar Kohkba (~130 AD). But they all ended the same. Romans crushing any attempt and the leaders assuming room temperature.
Jesus was a bit of a trickster in real life - and the bible does a good job of removing some of his 'flaws' - but one of them is still in the KJV, where the roman guards catch him with a small child in the woods - naked.... the boy runs off and doesn't give an explanation - but Jesus says 'Hey - chill out guys, its not like I'm one of those child pimps or something...' which is kind of a weird thing to say - as the guards hadn't actually accused him of anything yet. Also - there are plenty of stories of Jesus not getting crucified - and living to the age of nearly 70, but lots of dieties based off of real people - were crucified in their stories. It just makes him die a hero rather than live to be a creepy old man. Lots of people do it.
Roman Empire is still around , in the form of a church..
Yep, very much alive and well.
It's still around in the form of Western Civilization.
i think I like Bart Ehrman's point best about why the Romans specifically crucified Jesus - he claimed to be King of the Jews. So they didn't like the idea of someone challenging Roman authority. Like, "Hey man. This is not the town of the Jews this is part of Rome. You wanna fight us then, well, time for you to find out about the cross, pal."... Like that.
this rings true on a visceral level, many degrees less abstracted than notions of legitimacy, theology and the like
Ancient-world Alexandrian media told feel-good, reality-inverting whoppers about violent uprisings and rebel leaders in Judea; it spread to the Roman-occupied people of North Africa and was peddled by "mystery mongers" to the Roman gutter where, as Aldrete says, it was embraced by women and slaves. It was always a propagandistic subversion. Ehrman won't go there-- but I do wonder how deeply he understands this.
Medea we need you more than ever!
legitimacy is the same reason Alexander went to Siwa in Egypt after conquering it to be sanctified by the priests, apparently
What he said about Pliny the Younger being one of the most traveled, most educated Roman’s of that day, and because he didn’t know much about Christians suggests that a lot of people didn’t is bad logic. For example, if you apply that same logic today with Muslims, a well traveled, well educated person may not know much about Islam, but that doesn’t mean that a lot of people don’t. I’m sure as high ranking Roman he had plenty of other things to worry about and maybe that suggests why he didn’t know much about Christians.
Yes that was a leap
"Basically, worship another God was the sticking point"?? Jesus was born in the Jewish community...WHO WORSHIP GOD!!! Since their faith began....BEFORE the Romans!!! I love this historian on the oodcast...but this topic is not his realm of expertise.
Their problem was with praising caesar as a god.
Yeah, I was confused by that line of reasoning as well. Why didn't they just become Jewish then prior to Christianity? Both monotheistic, same God.
@@michaelmannion1963 i believe what he was referring to was the jews having an issue with acknowledging the roman emporer/caesar as a devine figure. That was the sticking point he was referring to, the jews could not accept a second god, the roman pagans could not understand why.
You've misunderstood what he's saying.
Or praising anything as God , because it's not what our creator is
He didn't even answer the question; what did Jesus do to get killed?
Well, if Jesus existed at all, he would've been executed simply because that's what the Romans did to people the conceived of as troublemakers. He would've been no more important in their estimation as your average troublemaker.
@@Hemingway-dq4fx"Well if Jesus existed at all" Well notwithstanding any of the supernatural elements, what makes you skeptical of his historicity?(Which with all due respect is not contested at all by even non religious historians.).
@@alexiscorral5594 not proven as a historical figure ,Jesus
@@fistfull1 "Not proven as a historical figure" Once again You don't have to be religious to see otherwise whether as Lord by the earliest Christians or as a sorcerer & blasphemer by their enemies.
@@Hemingway-dq4fxJesus the person did exist, that is a fact, any historian will tell you that the same as the one in the video. The question is was he really the son of god and did he perform miracles.
It’s cool worship you’re god. Buttt you gotta worship the god emperor 😎
all hail leto ii! second of his name, god emperor of dune
Christianity wasn’t the first religion, so his explanation doesn’t ring true. There were other religions that the emperor could’ve adopted, they adopted Christianity because the ppl started to convert.
No he had a dream
The fall of the Romans were prophetic as narrated in the book of Daniel. The statute that appeared in the King of Babylon’s dream. The mixture of clay and iron on the feet represented the Romans. The Stone that crushed the feet represented the Romans were crushed to be replaced by the eternal Empire non other than the Catholic Church based in Rome
Does no one remember why Jesus tipped the table?
The appeal of Christianity is that it’s true 😊
The idea that everyone is equal under God also pissed off the Brits in early America. The greatest idea in the history of the world continues to upset evil people.
Crazy thing is that Romans first viewed Christians as atheists “these people don’t believe in the Gods”
Don’t forget, Galilee was a very zealous place who had always rejected roman authority
Jesus' conflict was not with Rome, it was with the Jews, his own people.
That’s actually a fantastic idea. For everyone to every day Start repenting of their folly and holding each other accountable and adopting new attitudes towards one another and life.
There is also evidence to show that many Roman soldiers converted as well and helped the rapid spread of Christianity. Saint Sebastian being one of them.
Jesus Christ. The most verifiable figure from anitiquity, yet discredited more than any other figure from antiquity. Go figure.
Christianity wasn’t called Christianity then it was simply called by the first Christians “The Way” ☦️
I am interested in the Mythraic cult and their usage of the Phygrian Cap. The smurfs also use this hat, the Germans used this hat, and some think the Fez is just another form of this hat. I think hats used to hold massive significance in the olden times. I've even heard a theory that the pope's hat is a remnant of a fish-worshipping Pagan cult.
1.) what Hollywood movie made in the last 20 years tries to show Christian’s persecuted by the Romans in the first or second century?
2.) Christ taught “The kingdom is NOW!” It does not focus that much on “the next world,” it focuses on becoming like Christ.
0:08 LOL THIS IS THE BEST that was so funny when he said co existed Lex's face 😂😂😂 I almost busted out laughing Lex face that's funny this video was hilarious yet awesome at the same time 😂
I really enjoy watching professor Aldrete, but was disappointed that he talked about Christianity as though it sprang up out of nowhere. For most of the first century it was still a Jewish sect, and only became a distinct religion in the second century or so. And of course, Jesus was a Jew and died well before Christianity broke with Judaism. Jesus would have been more than a little surprised that his teachings ended up spawning a new religion which taught he was the long awaited messiah who had the power to save all mankind.
"The Book of Acts" has some interesting confrontations between Paul and different Roman leaders. Modern historians claim this book should put its author, Luke (a Greek physician), ranked with the other top historians of antiquity.
Hollywood is full of Crap
Yeshua was a Jew, not a Christian. When they crucified yeshua the Roman’s mocked him by proclaiming him “king of the Jews.”
Yeah he was the christ
CHRIST IS KING
8:55 Jesus didnt call anyone Christians. That was a nickname outsider called folks at Antioch
Rome didn't necessarily convert to Christianity though. They merged Romanism with it. They were being replaced by Jesus, so they created a false religion.
Well he got one thing right. Constantine used Christianity to unite the Roman Empire but first he had to change the teachings of jesus into what it is today, that way future leaders would be able to stay in power.
There is a reason Jesus was called to be crucified by the Jewish establishment and then the Christians by the Romans.
Jesus said “you will one day be able to do the things I do”.
If true then who needs authority figures.
Jesus was not a Christian. He was a Jew. The term “Christian” was not used until the third century.
The Christ is certainly a later title, and he wasn’t a Christian, his followers are.
Acts 11:26 says the disciples in Antioch were first called Christians. The book of Acts is thought to have been written between 70 and 90 CE.
@@vonroretz3307 It is interesting because "The Christ" (Acts 8:37) is generally thought to have been added later since the oldest manuscripts from the fourth century does not have it. But then in Acts 11 they refer to the followers as Christians.
Christianity and Islam are branches of Judaism.
@@jameskoutnik8213 But what is Judaism, the Mosaic covenant requires a Priesthood, sacrifice and a Temple. The jewish identity is based on a messianic teleology where in the end they rebuild the Temple and take over the world. Whats holding them back? They will only build it on what the believe is the original site which has 2 ancient mosques on it..
The Roman’s ruin the authenticity of Christianity
What about all the churches in that started before or during the roman empire: Greek, Alexandria (Eygpt), Ethopia, etc with similar accounts? Or are you naïve to think it was just the Romans?
Because Jeshua exposed the false Gods.
It's not true that two slave women were "leading early Christianity". Yes there were many deaconesses (which just means servant). The early church was led by the apostles and then their disciples (think Clement of Rome, St. Ignatius of Antioch, St. Polycarp of Smyrna). This guy is making some bold claims
Did he mention Tacitus, the Roman historian who called Jesus a miracle worker?
Huh, I see history repeating itself
Emotional comments incoming...
Wow, What Lex said has me thinking a little differently about Christianity. The whole conversation was deeply interesting and insightful. A lot to chew on.
"hes a good kind of populist and a populist message spreads"
Well “give to Caesar the things that are Caesars”. No real conflict with the kingdom of man there.
Pretty sure it was the great divide between rich and poor, taxes, slavery, and everything else that was put upon the peasantry by the powerful. 😂 it was just the birthday sacrifice 🤣
You may consider avoiding people who know everything on your next show
One big flaw with the emperor choosing Christianity as a way to say God chose him and therefore the legitimate emperor is that the person would have to be emperor first before making Christianity the official religion. Also, that would mean all others would not want Christianity if they weren't the chosen or they could also say they were chosen. I don't see how this argument is even in the top 10 reasons why an emperor would choose Christianity.
Jesus is Greek. He used to be a Jew but we converted Him.
What? After Alexander the Great, Greek was the universal language similar to what English is today and many of the disciples spoke/wrote in Greek. Paul, lived in Greece after the resurrection of Jesus where he wrote his testimonies. How does that "convert" him to Greek?
@@jameskoutnik8213 He preached in Judea and mosto f the disciples were from Judea, and every religious Jewish work from that time was written either in Aramaic or Hebrew (or a mix of the two), yet the New Testament is written in Greek and makes special mention of the Greeks even separately from Gentiles... why do you think that is? I'm fairly convinced that Christianity is a Greek reinterpretation of Juaism. Stemming mostly from the fact that they felt too restricted by all the commandments in the "Old" Testament. Kosher goes out the window. Circumcision goes out the window. Why? There is a promise in the book of Prophets that there will finally come a time when no uncircumcised man will enter Jerusalem. Why would Jesus say it doesn't matter? It can only make sense to people who learned about Jesus before anything else in the Bible.
And sergius paulus was a roman governer and he has inscriptions and stones with his name as artifacts in rome
Sensei was like that..let em know brev
So he's saying that Jesus was the bad guy and Pontius Pilot was the good guy?
From hippie movement to full on enslavement, well done folks LOL
Go cope and seethe.
Hippie? Where did Jesus teach free sex and hallucinogenic drugs? Based on my readings, its the complete opposite of a hippie
@@jameskoutnik8213 I’m talking about hippie Jesus’ whole we gotta love one another and actually help our fellow humans maannn shtick. That aside, speaking of “free drugs”….Here are a few Bible passages that some might interpret as resembling experiences similar to those of a person under the influence of hallucinogens:
1. The Burning Bush (Exodus 3:2-4):
- Moses encounters a bush that is on fire but not consumed by the flames. Many speculate that the bush may have been an acacia tree, which contains DMT, a potent psychoactive compound.
2. Ezekiel's Vision (Ezekiel 1:4-28):
- Ezekiel describes a vision of four living creatures with multiple faces and wings, accompanied by wheels covered in eyes. The vivid imagery and surreal experience could resemble a psychedelic experience.
3. Revelation of John (Revelation 4-6):
- John’s vision of heaven includes bizarre creatures, a lamb with seven horns and seven eyes, and the breaking of seven seals leading to apocalyptic events. The highly symbolic and intense imagery could be seen as akin to a hallucinatory experience.
3:45 that doesn’t prove Christianity was fringe.
I am really in touch with my inner nerdy girl lol.
At this point, I think people need to make Jesus the icon to be again, whether you believe it’s all real or not. It just works out better than say….yourself.
Aren’t we jumping ahead? First, can you prove that Jesus was even a real person
Insanity. Show us the letters. Oooppps. There are none.
It may go over lots of your heads, but peep this... Why would a small "insignificant religion"...amongst many over a time become so prominent even Emperors wants to affiliate with it? Let that sink in.
In the bible it says to pay tax to the Caesar and fight the Babylonians. Isn't rocket science
@@GUYE-FAWKES because the emperors were the ones who made it up.
Because by the time it was made a state religion, a large section of the population was already Christian and demographics is destiny.
?
@Hacktheplanet_ Render Caesar what belongs to Caesar does not mean what it apparently means to you.
The problem with historians like this is that they view the past through their own materialist modern eyes and don’t see the world as the ancients saw it, so they miss a lot. He also has very little knowledge of Christianity and the early church. The early Christians were not focused on the afterlife. Eternal life began in this life on earth.
Lex, you need to get Tom Holland on your podcast. Read his Book Dominion.
6:32 legitimacy
Happy it’s addressing Christianity. But this is overly basic and reductive in so many ways. To seperate the world in religious and political, is modern. Also, there is really more to Christianity than the afterlife; especially as “going to heaven” doesn’t really appear in texts prior to the 4th century. So its kinda overstated that this would be the only aim.
“Are there other factors to explain why Christianity spread?” Because people know the Truth when they see it and hear it. 🙏🏻
christianity was invented as a means of mass control...
The Romans did invent jesus not vice-versa! one Emperor to be a stickler - that boy was forgotten for four centuries...
4:45 amen in christ were all one
Research Pilates letter to Caesar
Enjoyed the clip, although he is probably incorrect @5:40. Mary (mother of Jesus) and Mary Magdalene are who I assume he is referring to, and there is no evidence that either were slaves. It appears very likely that Mary Magdalene may have been bankrolling the ministry and Jesus' mother may have been from a more prosperous town near Nazareth, impregnated by a Roman soldier, and Joseph married her anyway (dowry!)
where did you hear that?
@@jrossi91 Bart Ehrman, James Tabor, et al.
@@sburns2421 stop lying
@@sburns2421 why are you spreading misinformation
@@Hoe-numan5 What do you have to counter a word I have written.
Nothing? I thought so...
There's always been examples of smart people living inside of social/political bubbles and have no idea what other perspectives are. As is very clear today lol. I don't think you can make the jump that Plinny not understanding to every Roman not understanding.. His letter may have also been intentionally dismissive for 1000 different reasons.
I don't think this guy understands Christian eschatology very well
Cesar Ptolemy 14, Cleopatra Just as Augustus (and Cesar before him) it was the Plebs and the Masses that they were trying to win, you could become a Roman citizen even a slave, these Ideas were not uniquely started in the "Christian" era, most Emperors allowed like modern societies eg the US, allowed freedom of religion
Actually, it's not that we all are equal - everyone is individual, but we will be judged by what is given.. You think a person who is born in riches will be judge the same born poor or a poor person but body abled vs a blind person ? Obvious we are not born the same situation or the same way, so we will be held accountable for that..
"We applaud the Serpent of Colonialism in breathing its last breath" Haile SelASSIE I- GOD IN FLESH
His Crucifixion bound Roman Colonialism into a dark age for a 1000 years, His Reincarnation as King end European Colonialism forever ... Praise the One who sits on King David throne
Being ungovernable made him a target. 🙏
Nah the Pharisees saw Jesus as a threat to their way of life, especially when he claimed to be God
@@jameskoutnik8213 Completely understandable.
You have to be "good" in this life and you will have eternal life. So you must be good now to have eternal life with the father. Good is just a simplified word construct.