I just finished watching the latest episode of "Well There's Your Problem" and as always, it was a fascinating and informative deep-dive into engineering disasters. However, I can't help but express my annoyance with Liam. His constant interruptions and off-topic comments really detract from the overall quality of the podcast. It's frustrating to see that he is still a host despite the negative impact he has on the show. Nonetheless, I'm grateful to the other hosts for their insightful analysis and for shedding light on these important issues in the engineering world. I'll definitely keep tuning in, but I hope that the team can address the issues with Liam and improve the show even further.
I love Alice and Roz, but there's something about someone who constantly interrupts and goes off topic that makes the show perfect. I warm myself off the glow of Liam's anger and can't wait to hear more about why people make horrible decisions and [Redacted].
@@alicecaldwell-kelly9530 I work in finance and before anyone gets put onto a PIP, they usually do something called a "Coaching Plan". It's still grim, but at least you don't get penalised for during performance moderation. I don't like my office job, but it pays the bills.
They say this episode was delayed bc they had to scrap an ep. We all know the real reason is that they wanted to stop being as reliably frequent as Norfolk Southern derailments.
I was under the assumption that the eagles losing the super bowl hangover would take a few weeks to sleep off but I should've known it was trains... it's always trains.
I'd like to add extra context to the $1 sale of Love Canal. Hooker Chemical didn't want to sell it. They wanted to lease it to the city for use as a simple park. As long as the clay seal remained intact, the ground was safe for light use such as this. Hooker Chemical was threatened with eminent domain, so they sold for $1 and made the city acknowledge in writing that it was dangerous to do any construction on the land that involved digging equipment. The city _immediately_ began digging the foundation for the school, and the rest is history.
There's a story in my family about my old grandfather, a wicked-intelligent man and second-generation immigrant. Back in the 70s, he was on the ground floor in the EPA before they had clear statutory authorities or precise outlining guidance. At that point in time, one of my grandfather's jobs was collecting samples of pollution for use in litigation against major industrial companies. At the time, he needed to collect samples from a polluted waterway either at or near the source for evidentiary reasons (he's been dead most of my life so I can't verify the finer points). The problem with his task was that the factory had sealed off access to the waterway, owning all of the property on the banks and refusing entry to EPA inspectors who weren't backed up by the power of subpoena. The solution, they reckoned, was to get around trespassing entirely by rigging him up in a harness and rappelling down from a helicopter hovering over the river. Another note about him is that he was apparenty one of the first EPA agents to carry a gun, but not for the usual ATF reasons. Rather, a bunch of corpo thugs of the variety you don't quite see nowadays (not to imply that allied universal isn't around today) threatened him with such regularity that, in a sort of handshake deal, he was taken down to the local National Guard armory and checked out an M1911 for carry on the job. My grandfather was genuinely one of those Really Interesting People who suffered a lot of problems as his life went on. In his 20s and early 30s, he was a drummer in a jazz band until his wife converted to fundamentalist Christianity and persuaded him that music with a beat was sinful. He suffered from a variety of mental problems to do with the degeneration of his central nervous system and ended up dying when I was very young but it always seemed to my family like he was two different people in his life.
We are all better off today because of his hard work. The Chevron decision is a disaster, but I believe the American people will turn it back around once rivers start catching fire again.
Imagining Liam's therapist listening to the show taking notes, then they hit the WTC episode and get to the laugh, and they just start furiously tying notes together on a tackboard with red yarn.
My late husband was born in Love Canal (it's on his birth certificate) in 1947. They moved here to Omaha when he was about 3 years old, I think. But it gave me a "That explains a LOT" for many good-natured arguments over the years.
11:30 The way Justin pronounced “Thalys” to rhyme with “Cialis” made me think “if your train is standing on a siding for more than four hours, consult a physician immediately”
I did a lot of research on the site during university, there's a couple fun things you missed. 1)model city, the surrounding area, and a bunch of scattered sites near Niagara falls are nuclear waste dumps for the Manhattan Project. Nuclear contamination is a legitimate issue up that way, including nuclear waste found in the soils at Niagara Falls State Park just a few years ago. There's also a former Nike Hercules base on Grand Island that got turned into a park, which is fun. At least Buffalo wasn't going to get whacked in an exchange 2) that $1 deed for the Love Canal dump noted, in clear text, that the school district was not to use the land for anything other than a park or for other surface enhancements that would not involve digging. Hooker didn't just wash their hands, they repeatedly warned the school district, whom ignored the warning. Had Hooker not sold the property, it's extremely likely that the dump would have been condemned regardless 3) during those snow storms, the playground of the 99th street school subsided and filled with a pool of contaminated water. They kids would splash around in that puddle, with at least one going blind 3)that lovely roadway to the south of the canal, the LaSalle Expressway, was built in the 1960's and contributed to the disaster. You see, when hooker built the clay pit, they only walled in three sides and the top. The Niagara river end was wide open, and groundwater would flow out and carry that toxic schmoo down the river. When they built the expressway across the end of the canal, they capped the fourth wall, turning the whole thing into a bathtub. The only way out for storm water was through the openings in the the cap the city punched for sewers, water lines, foundations and otherwise. This contributed to the flooding in the 1970's,when all that water would have just gone into the river. Instead it went up, and it went out, carrying contamination way out into the neighborhood
well nike-herculise batteries were in a lot of north border cities, the thing they never made known at the time was whether they were conventional or nuclear armed
2) I'm annoyed that they skipped that part, knowing that the school was trying to acquire the thing through eminent domain and the company tried to stop that is kinda important. Speaking of the sale/transfer, are there any laws to handle this sort of thing now (aside from the CERCLA strict liability)? 3) I'm amazed that people ignored (I'm not talking about inaction due to funding issues, I'm talking about the school staying open, people assuming it wasn't a health risk and nobody suing the developer/city for letting them buy the houses) all of the contamination for so long, it seems really obvious from some of the descriptions. Can some of the type of people who protest against 5G cell towers go and check public records for construction on capped hazmat landfills where people are complaining about pretty clear signs of pollution? 4) They left what open‽ Is that still standard and would it have been an issue if the construction didn't happen. Also what's the expected time before digging into a dump like this is fine (in Cs-137 half lives, because people pretend nuclear waste is special)?
Electrical engineer here: in reference to around 46:30, the reason transformers only work with alternating current is because mangetic fields have a certain inertia to them, and when you try to push more or less magnetic flux through a material, it creates a counter-directional electrical current to resist the change. This is also how mangetic brakes work, but the underlying principle relies on a changing magnetic field, which can only be generated by a current that changes over time (AC) and not by DC. Basically all electric current generates magnetic fields, but you can only convert it back to electrical energy if the fields are changing over time.
@@shadowmaster1313 Im not sure if what i said comprehensively explains emps, because the term can apply to a few diffefent types of phenomena. But it certainly should explain why a purely magnetic pulse would induce currents and damage electronics.
I posit that the reason Niagara Falls was the top Boomer honeymoon destination is that standing remotely near that much water was the wettest those men were ever going to make their wives.
Disappointed that Roz didn't mention two things: 1 - The Love Canal Homeowners Association crafted and burned effigies of the NYS Governor and Health Commissioner of they day to protest the lack of action that EPA and the State were taking between 1978 and the full evacuation of homes near the canal. 2 - during this period the Homeowners association took 2 EPA representatives hostage for 5 hours to force the feds to order an evacuation. You can see pictures of the effigies on the University at Buffalo's love canal archive.
You see, all of these have different use cases, these are the size of a planet, and these are merely the size of a moon, but with better bass, and this one has a mic, and these I stole from my brother in law, and this pair materialized from the aether but is also load bearing.
Yeah. I watch this podcast in my peripheral vision, and I can tell when I need to look over because there's a new slide. The hit sounds help to make sure I don't miss any of Devon's additions
I like the subtle sound that Devon put in at about 2:25 when they throw up some text. I'm not always focusing on the visuals so it's nice to get a quick little audio hint that there's some sweet Devon chat happening.
I'm enjoying that every time Devon put a text overlay, there's a burst of static, so if I'm listening while doing other stuff, I know to come back and look at their note
I'm 4 seconds into the video and I've already noticed, despite being International Women's Day, November is the LAST of the hosts to speak. I've made note of this.
Calgary, Canada had a similar community (although on a much smaller scale), Lynnview Ridge, that was built on the site of an old oil refinery. The refinery closed in 1977 and it was only a year later the housing development was approved. By 1985 oil started leaking out of the soil in a nearby park, but it wasn't until 2001 that tests found that lead levels were unacceptably high. Imperial Oil had to buy out 135 homes.
A similar thing is happening in northeast Edmonton, where we decided to build houses on the old Domtar plant site (Dominion Tar Company, they used to make creosoted railroad ties there). Surprise, surprise, surprise, the cleanup wasn't good enough and there are still higher than expected levels of toxins there. P.S: Nice to find another Albertan in the comments!
There is absolutely nothing relatable about going hard on your goals through January and then burning out and needing personal time halfway through February.
I got no work tomorrow, bike parts all over the dining room table, a fridge full of beer, and a new episode of my favorite podcast to keep me company while I put it all back together. Thanks para-social friends.
You can see a scale-model hydroelectric generator at the Nikola Tesla Museum in Belgrade! It hooks up to the building’s water supply, spins a little turbine about three or four inches across, and transmits the electricity over a tiny little power line to light up a miniature street lamp. It’s one of the coolest things I’ve ever seen in a museum, which is saying something since that same museum also has a half-million-volt Tesla coil.
Diesel exhaust piss is for breaking down nitrogen oxides rather than carbon of course. And - shortages of it recently because of dumb policy choices and interdependency on fertiliser production could be its own WTYP episode. Looking forward to the Well Dank’s Your Problem crossover now!
26:18 My grandparents were married in Saginaw, Michigan, and my grandfather took my grandmother on a honeymoon. Since Niagara Falls was too far and a bit too conventional, they settled on the next best thing; Cuyahoga Falls. In Ohio. They drove several hours to get there and my grandmother - upon finding a local at the gas station - asked where the falls were, to which they answered that they were down the road and more like a rapids that the Niagara.
One of the few instances where I can’t wholly blame a disaster like this on an irresponsible/greedy company. Hooker literally told NFSD in writing that this land was not safe for anything except a park. They buy the land for $1 (which they would have gotten through ED anyway) then proceed to build a school with a playground directly on top. Developers begin building up the residential sections (which Hooker AGAIN advises against), breaking the clay seal multiple times. This place is my hometown and it never ceases to amaze me how inept and short sighted the city government has and still continues to be.
Hey Liam, I'm happy to hear that therapy's working out for you! You're my favorite part of these podcasts, and the episodes without you just aren't the same. Yay Liam!
FYI, I used to babysit for Lois Gibbs' kids in high school. This was not in Love Canal or anywhere near it. Anyway, she was nice and her kids were pretty darn cool, so...... Love you guys!
My favorite part of this whole Love Canal saga was how they decided to deal with it by just putting more clay on top and testing the ground water more often. Totally solved the problem once and for all!
Gallagher passed away last November yo. Watermelons are no longer living in fear. Also I'd love a Techmoan collab too! One last edit per Wikipedia. Love did up and disappear when collectors came calling: He claimed to have left for England in 1897, seeking foreign investment[2]. Instead, having absconded with an unknown quantity of money, he practiced law in Cordova, Alaska for several years, then attempted to start a new model city scheme in the Puget Sound area[7] before settling on Lomax, Illinois in 1911. By 1914 "New Lomax" was bust, with Love netting $250,000[8]. In 1929 he tried once more, claiming to have 15,000 acres for the location of "New City," Delaware[9], which similarly failed to materialize.
Points to Alice for mentioning Ramos Gin Fizz. Someone needs to do art of Alice, as a '40's femme fatale, ordering a 'Love Canal' from Bartender Roz while Liam slumps on a barstool in the background. Look good on a Tee.
Y'all released this the same hour I found out my dad died. I just want to say thanks for the show, I always enjoy it, and I know it'll help take my mind off things in between sessions of ugly crying.
I can only assume that Alice's reaction to being told how much power she has over you two is evidence she has even more than you realize, plus motivation to use it. So good luck :)
My Amtrak train got disabled in North Carolina and arrived five and a half hours late in Raleigh... got kicked out of the train station at 11 pm because it closed while waiting for my ride. Had a marginally better time listening to this episode in the train station parking lot. Feels like wtyp's natural habitat somehow. Thanks wtyp
I've worked on a few big superfund sites. They can be interesting places when everything has been demolished for decades and nature takes over. There's just that pesky underlying soil and groundwater contamination being the reason for the re-wilding.
This really answers the question: what if The Colour Out of Space happened in upstate New York and then there was a podcast about engineering disasters about it. With slides.
I have a relative of some sort who was inside a silo checking something when they started pouring in several tons more grain and he ended up dying. Don't go into confined spaces willingly. The only time you might catch me in a confined space is if, when we finally get the so-called Big One earthquake, happens to collapse and trap me within it. I am so worried about this sort of thing that, in addition to the recommended shoes by the bed, I also have some extrication tools, water, food, and weed in my room near my bed just in case.
Today I am proud to say I pitched in 2 bucks during the commercial for the patreon. I work in 1 hr chunks & listen to the pod while doing so. Having at this point, gone through the entire catalogue of episodes multiple times - I figured I can contribute a bit more. Thank you for the work WTYP team. Also Yay Liam, and Hey Hi, Devon.
I know you aren't gonna release the East Palestine ep and I respect that. But if there were any particularly excellent RozRants™ in it, is there a snowball's chance that we might get a sneaky supercut of them at sooooome point? Love a good rant.
Ahhhh... After a hard day in the Oklahoma cannabis mines, I come home to my favorite podcast by my favorite people. Thank you for these episodes...you bring a lot of joy to a lot of people.
my adhd has been a fuckening recently so thank god y'all are back, you guys are one of the best self medications I have until such time as I manage to get on meds also solidarity with Liam for getting mental health shit in better order this year
Mood, I use these to help my brain get through a task, the conversation and occasional image is enough to keep me engaged in the same room, while not being a constant video that I need to keep watching. Perfect for dishes or laundry folding. Hope you get some medication for it soon, it doesn't fix all the problems but it really helps with executive dysfunction and the feeling of being stuck between tasks.
My ADHD medicine is currently unavailable literally anywhere in the world due to shortage so I feel you, wishing you and all other ADHD squad members the best
@effluviah oh, wow that sucks. Is that the only one that works for you? I was tried on two different ones before we gave the third more old-school one a try, which actually worked.
It’s wild to listen in on the ending of this one and to think of how many new homes continue to be built surrounding the wonderful Rocky Flats site, one of many Super Fund sites around Denver. The horse statue that’s encased in a haz mat suit and wearing a gas mask is like the only good thing about goin near there.
Former diesel engine engineer here: DEF is used in the Selective Catalytic Reduction systems of certain Tier 4 diesel engines to reduce NOx into Nitrogen and water.
My love canal often becomes an environmental disaster zone after eating some delightful Tim Hortons and causing a Niagara Falls in my bathroom. Who knew they put hexavalent chromium in their delicious iced coffee?
Regarding the decline of upstate NY towns, I went to SUNY Oswego for college in the mid 2010s, and during that time the next city to the south, Fulton, took down their city limits sign that had the slogan "Fulton, the city with a future".
......the Nestle plant closed the year I graduated from Oswego. Also in the same year the Orangemen won the men's NCAA basketball tournament.....memories...
Aw fuck yeah we are off to a flying start, 20 seconds in and I am YAY LIAMing out of my mind This is why I don't begrudge the precision scheduled podcasting, I love this.
The fact that Alice and Liam are dankpods watchers is very in character and as a dankpods fan I am very much looking forward to the incorporation of dank pods ridiculous lingo
Liam had some real character development in the first 5 minutes of the episode, glad to see that you're doing therapy and doing better because of it. The Well There's Your Problem lore expands!
I often listen to these while on long drives for work, and Devon adding in the hitmarker noise for their comments is delightful to let me know there are moments I can come back to when it's safe for me to read, thank you boss! 🐻
the funny thing about the Springfield derailment and Alice bringing up peeing Calvin is that Bill Watterson lives in Ohio (and has for the last 58 years)
59:00. Tyco (Mantua), Pemco, Athearn, Life-Like and AHM all produced that livery in their HO scale tank car line in the 70's. Lionel made them in O scale. They were also made in N scale. They're still made today. It appears the marketing folks at Hooker/Occidental were/are OK with it.
I lived at the mouth of the Niagara River for several years in the late 90s. My dad was in the Coast Guard and had to recover the corpse of a guy who went over the falls on a jet ski. I've also seen the falls so many times that they've lost all meaning. Go to the Grand Canyon instead, it's much better.
Thank you all for covering this; it cleared up a lot of misconceptions I had. Also thank you Devon for adding audio cues about when I shouls look for extra jokes
As a recent former NS employee that worked at Conway Terminal where the 32N was headed I’d be happy to weigh in on any questions you might have regarding NS practices as the relate to the east Palestine disaster.
Dang, after hearing keywords like Westinghouse, Tesla, and Niagara Falls, I thought for sure that this one was going to be about the accidental crushing of the Schoellkopf power station.
I hope you all try not to let having to scrap the NS episode and getting a bit behind schedule bother you too much. As great as timely episodes can be accuracy and getting the big picture behind these failures is more of what drives the show than anything. Otherwise episodes like the Ashtabula Horror wouldn't be of interest. But if you want to release the Safety Third you recorded as a bonus or something that could be nice! Also I don't know if Devon will see this but the hitmarkers for every little aside were great.
niagara falls for me is a memory of playing Asphalt 4 on my DSi in a hotel room while my dad snores in the corner because there was literally nothing to do in that entire city after day 2
*seeing video* Oh boy, I can't wait to learn all about canals and how waterway infrastructure works :^) *52 minutes in* Wow, this is a lot of electrical engineering stuff
Yeah, I suppose they didn't have to go through the whole history of the electrical industry just to explain why there was a mile-long abandoned ditch in East Niagara Falls. However, besides being interesting in itself, it's all context that helps to explain the minds of the people who made infrastructure and land use decisions that people are now still living with.
If Alice wants to come to the US to look at very old hydro power she should come to Minneapolis/St.Paul. It has the largest hydraulic drop on the Mississippi and TONS of hydro power very much like what was shown for Niagra falls. *BONUS*: The Washburn A Mill (the largest mill in the world when the thing happened) would make a great WTYP episode.
I love this podcast because its very tightly focused autism interspersed with anecdotes I'm pretty sure I've already heard on Tech Diffs Citation Needed.
On the topic of buried barrels of toxic waste ruining a water table, Ciba-Geigy in NJ is a good candidate for an episode. Lots of industrial waste leached into the water table causing a spike in cancer rates in the surrounding towns. Ciba as a company had a long history of chemical dumping that is wildly careless
I just finished watching the latest episode of "Well There's Your Problem" and as always, it was a fascinating and informative deep-dive into engineering disasters. However, I can't help but express my annoyance with Liam. His constant interruptions and off-topic comments really detract from the overall quality of the podcast. It's frustrating to see that he is still a host despite the negative impact he has on the show.
Nonetheless, I'm grateful to the other hosts for their insightful analysis and for shedding light on these important issues in the engineering world. I'll definitely keep tuning in, but I hope that the team can address the issues with Liam and improve the show even further.
Are you trying to become the pinned dunk-on post? Lol
We’re not going to put our friend on a fucking performance improvement plan like we’re a tech company
Buddy, it’s episode 125, what are you doing?
I love Alice and Roz, but there's something about someone who constantly interrupts and goes off topic that makes the show perfect. I warm myself off the glow of Liam's anger and can't wait to hear more about why people make horrible decisions and [Redacted].
@@alicecaldwell-kelly9530 I work in finance and before anyone gets put onto a PIP, they usually do something called a "Coaching Plan". It's still grim, but at least you don't get penalised for during performance moderation.
I don't like my office job, but it pays the bills.
They say this episode was delayed bc they had to scrap an ep. We all know the real reason is that they wanted to stop being as reliably frequent as Norfolk Southern derailments.
I bet Biden feels super awesome about strikebreaking now.
@@ItzGuerrero I still don't think it would have "ruined" Christmas... had the strike continued. Maybe might have made gas a little more expensive
I was under the assumption that the eagles losing the super bowl hangover would take a few weeks to sleep off but I should've known it was trains... it's always trains.
Nothing will ever overshadow the Norfolk Southern clown show.
Worth the wait, nonetheless.
I'd like to add extra context to the $1 sale of Love Canal. Hooker Chemical didn't want to sell it. They wanted to lease it to the city for use as a simple park. As long as the clay seal remained intact, the ground was safe for light use such as this. Hooker Chemical was threatened with eminent domain, so they sold for $1 and made the city acknowledge in writing that it was dangerous to do any construction on the land that involved digging equipment. The city _immediately_ began digging the foundation for the school, and the rest is history.
There's a story in my family about my old grandfather, a wicked-intelligent man and second-generation immigrant. Back in the 70s, he was on the ground floor in the EPA before they had clear statutory authorities or precise outlining guidance. At that point in time, one of my grandfather's jobs was collecting samples of pollution for use in litigation against major industrial companies. At the time, he needed to collect samples from a polluted waterway either at or near the source for evidentiary reasons (he's been dead most of my life so I can't verify the finer points). The problem with his task was that the factory had sealed off access to the waterway, owning all of the property on the banks and refusing entry to EPA inspectors who weren't backed up by the power of subpoena. The solution, they reckoned, was to get around trespassing entirely by rigging him up in a harness and rappelling down from a helicopter hovering over the river.
Another note about him is that he was apparenty one of the first EPA agents to carry a gun, but not for the usual ATF reasons. Rather, a bunch of corpo thugs of the variety you don't quite see nowadays (not to imply that allied universal isn't around today) threatened him with such regularity that, in a sort of handshake deal, he was taken down to the local National Guard armory and checked out an M1911 for carry on the job.
My grandfather was genuinely one of those Really Interesting People who suffered a lot of problems as his life went on. In his 20s and early 30s, he was a drummer in a jazz band until his wife converted to fundamentalist Christianity and persuaded him that music with a beat was sinful. He suffered from a variety of mental problems to do with the degeneration of his central nervous system and ended up dying when I was very young but it always seemed to my family like he was two different people in his life.
So, exposure to neurotoxins. Poor guy.
@@grmpEqweersociety neurotoxins and neurotoxins neurotoxins.
We are all better off today because of his hard work. The Chevron decision is a disaster, but I believe the American people will turn it back around once rivers start catching fire again.
Imagining Liam's therapist listening to the show taking notes, then they hit the WTC episode and get to the laugh, and they just start furiously tying notes together on a tackboard with red yarn.
The Pipeline Silvia
Wasn't it Roz with the RBG laugh?
@@LordMangudai Eyup.
Remember everyone: if you have a burning in your love canal, go talk to your doctor. There's no reason to suffer in silence
If contact with your love canal causes other people to develop skin rashes, make sure *they* go to the doctor as well!
Coffee came out of nose.
@@jillanderson3665yeah, it scared me. How'd you know
I was really anticipating "first we have to ask ourselves... what is love?" 😅
Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no more...
@@grmpEqweer Damn! U beat me to it!
My late husband was born in Love Canal (it's on his birth certificate) in 1947. They moved here to Omaha when he was about 3 years old, I think. But it gave me a "That explains a LOT" for many good-natured arguments over the years.
Everyone is born in love canal usually except when they're not
11:30 The way Justin pronounced “Thalys” to rhyme with “Cialis” made me think “if your train is standing on a siding for more than four hours, consult a physician immediately”
isn't he talking about Keolis?
I did a lot of research on the site during university, there's a couple fun things you missed.
1)model city, the surrounding area, and a bunch of scattered sites near Niagara falls are nuclear waste dumps for the Manhattan Project. Nuclear contamination is a legitimate issue up that way, including nuclear waste found in the soils at Niagara Falls State Park just a few years ago. There's also a former Nike Hercules base on Grand Island that got turned into a park, which is fun. At least Buffalo wasn't going to get whacked in an exchange
2) that $1 deed for the Love Canal dump noted, in clear text, that the school district was not to use the land for anything other than a park or for other surface enhancements that would not involve digging. Hooker didn't just wash their hands, they repeatedly warned the school district, whom ignored the warning. Had Hooker not sold the property, it's extremely likely that the dump would have been condemned regardless
3) during those snow storms, the playground of the 99th street school subsided and filled with a pool of contaminated water. They kids would splash around in that puddle, with at least one going blind
3)that lovely roadway to the south of the canal, the LaSalle Expressway, was built in the 1960's and contributed to the disaster. You see, when hooker built the clay pit, they only walled in three sides and the top. The Niagara river end was wide open, and groundwater would flow out and carry that toxic schmoo down the river. When they built the expressway across the end of the canal, they capped the fourth wall, turning the whole thing into a bathtub. The only way out for storm water was through the openings in the the cap the city punched for sewers, water lines, foundations and otherwise. This contributed to the flooding in the 1970's,when all that water would have just gone into the river. Instead it went up, and it went out, carrying contamination way out into the neighborhood
well nike-herculise batteries were in a lot of north border cities, the thing they never made known at the time was whether they were conventional or nuclear armed
2) I'm annoyed that they skipped that part, knowing that the school was trying to acquire the thing through eminent domain and the company tried to stop that is kinda important. Speaking of the sale/transfer, are there any laws to handle this sort of thing now (aside from the CERCLA strict liability)?
3) I'm amazed that people ignored (I'm not talking about inaction due to funding issues, I'm talking about the school staying open, people assuming it wasn't a health risk and nobody suing the developer/city for letting them buy the houses) all of the contamination for so long, it seems really obvious from some of the descriptions. Can some of the type of people who protest against 5G cell towers go and check public records for construction on capped hazmat landfills where people are complaining about pretty clear signs of pollution?
4) They left what open‽ Is that still standard and would it have been an issue if the construction didn't happen. Also what's the expected time before digging into a dump like this is fine (in Cs-137 half lives, because people pretend nuclear waste is special)?
Electrical engineer here: in reference to around 46:30, the reason transformers only work with alternating current is because mangetic fields have a certain inertia to them, and when you try to push more or less magnetic flux through a material, it creates a counter-directional electrical current to resist the change. This is also how mangetic brakes work, but the underlying principle relies on a changing magnetic field, which can only be generated by a current that changes over time (AC) and not by DC. Basically all electric current generates magnetic fields, but you can only convert it back to electrical energy if the fields are changing over time.
you're talking about "Back-EMF", right?
Okay I think you made me understand why an EMP works potentially by accident (no I'm not double checking)
@@jaypee9785 Yes, although I believe that term is more commonly used in motors than in transformers.
@@shadowmaster1313 Im not sure if what i said comprehensively explains emps, because the term can apply to a few diffefent types of phenomena. But it certainly should explain why a purely magnetic pulse would induce currents and damage electronics.
Nah bro. voltage goes in, voltage goes out. You can't explain that shit.
"Nashville is becoming a theme park version of itself"
As an Austin resident, I feel this in my soul.
...Houston is definitely not a theme park version of itself. I like it here, but it's a weird place.
Fitting they followed with Niagara Falls, which pioneered that kind of transition over a century ago.
I posit that the reason Niagara Falls was the top Boomer honeymoon destination is that standing remotely near that much water was the wettest those men were ever going to make their wives.
Normalize "husband bad" humor
🤣
Disappointed that Roz didn't mention two things: 1 - The Love Canal Homeowners Association crafted and burned effigies of the NYS Governor and Health Commissioner of they day to protest the lack of action that EPA and the State were taking between 1978 and the full evacuation of homes near the canal. 2 - during this period the Homeowners association took 2 EPA representatives hostage for 5 hours to force the feds to order an evacuation.
You can see pictures of the effigies on the University at Buffalo's love canal archive.
Devon can I just say, I appreciate the little "an edit is happening" noise when your captions pop up on screen.
Just so, I tend to alt tab while listening, so the indicator is very helpful.
Horrible fucking sound, but it's good to know when to look
Devon, you are a beautiful person for listening to our requests and adding the Devon Noise. We appreciate and love you and your edits.
It’s the hit marker sound from cod and it works
It's the sound that means the set-up 360 Y,Y cross map throwing knife on your friend finally landed.
Will always satisfy me
I love how Devon has basically become the fourth host.
But their presence is entirely indirect. Like a character in a video game that’s only present in journals or audio diaries
They replaced the activate windows logo
@@Psychome1337 +1 insightful
@@JacobTCannon They're the shadow host!
Shadow Chancellor Devon
So before we talk about the Love Canal, we have to ask: What is love?
Oh baby, don't hurt me
Don't hurt me
No more
What a lovely name for a canal! This episode should be heartwarming
They can have cute little boats, it'll be fun!
Heart warming. So warming that cells in the body start going crazy. Its cute
It was super fun... D
I am surprised this wasn't the Valentine's Day special.
My skins tingling just thinking about it
Liam's "why do you have 6 pairs of headphones?" mini-rant is the most seen I've ever felt by a stranger on the internet.
You see, all of these have different use cases, these are the size of a planet, and these are merely the size of a moon, but with better bass, and this one has a mic, and these I stole from my brother in law, and this pair materialized from the aether but is also load bearing.
Don't tell my wife what my Arya's cost lol
Massive amounts of IEMs are easier to store out of sight and out of judgement, just saying.
all my headphones give me different headaches when I wear them long enough so I just need to rotate them out every so often lmao
With the concentration of autism in this audience, he is seeing all of us, lmao.
Devon adding the hit marker sound whenever they add a message on screen is a very good bit and means I don’t miss anything 10/10 thank you
Yeah. I watch this podcast in my peripheral vision, and I can tell when I need to look over because there's a new slide. The hit sounds help to make sure I don't miss any of Devon's additions
agree. give devon a raise.
I look forward to future episodes containing comments with Devon timestamps
I like the subtle sound that Devon put in at about 2:25 when they throw up some text. I'm not always focusing on the visuals so it's nice to get a quick little audio hint that there's some sweet Devon chat happening.
Dev has added so much enjoyment since they signed on to to join the WTYP crew. I love them!❤❤❤❤
(Dev uses they/them pronouns! but otherwise, agreed)
I just hope they use a different sound next time, this one was sharp, like the scratch of headphones cutting 😅
@@brownishblue Yeah my thoughts exactly, it sounds a bit like some audio editing artifact
I believe the sound is the throwing knife sound effect from Call of Duty
Devon’s MLG hit marker edits are fucking gold I hope this trend continues and wasn’t just one night of them feeling extra spicy
buddy do i have some news for you
I'm enjoying that every time Devon put a text overlay, there's a burst of static, so if I'm listening while doing other stuff, I know to come back and look at their note
They're like quindar tones! But for podcasting!
It’s the Call of Duty hitmarker
I'm 4 seconds into the video and I've already noticed, despite being International Women's Day, November is the LAST of the hosts to speak. I've made note of this.
Save the best for last?
Alice also does like 6 other podcasts and needs someone else to do some work for once
Whoop, into Devon's blackmail folder
@@AsbestosMuffins women always needing to do twice as many podcasts to get respect
I've notified the authorities myself
Calgary, Canada had a similar community (although on a much smaller scale), Lynnview Ridge, that was built on the site of an old oil refinery. The refinery closed in 1977 and it was only a year later the housing development was approved. By 1985 oil started leaking out of the soil in a nearby park, but it wasn't until 2001 that tests found that lead levels were unacceptably high. Imperial Oil had to buy out 135 homes.
A similar thing is happening in northeast Edmonton, where we decided to build houses on the old Domtar plant site (Dominion Tar Company, they used to make creosoted railroad ties there). Surprise, surprise, surprise, the cleanup wasn't good enough and there are still higher than expected levels of toxins there.
P.S: Nice to find another Albertan in the comments!
@@bobsmith2637 Oooo, Domtar!! You could make a whole WTYPP miniseries out of Domtar's various environmental shenanigans alone
The last time I had an engineering disaster in the love canal it ended a six month relationship. She refused to look me in the eye afterwards.
Omg
Dang.
Sucks, hope you reattached it
There is absolutely nothing relatable about going hard on your goals through January and then burning out and needing personal time halfway through February.
You are right, only like 1% people last longer than one week
What's "goals"
I got no work tomorrow, bike parts all over the dining room table, a fridge full of beer, and a new episode of my favorite podcast to keep me company while I put it all back together.
Thanks para-social friends.
You can see a scale-model hydroelectric generator at the Nikola Tesla Museum in Belgrade! It hooks up to the building’s water supply, spins a little turbine about three or four inches across, and transmits the electricity over a tiny little power line to light up a miniature street lamp. It’s one of the coolest things I’ve ever seen in a museum, which is saying something since that same museum also has a half-million-volt Tesla coil.
Diesel exhaust piss is for breaking down nitrogen oxides rather than carbon of course. And - shortages of it recently because of dumb policy choices and interdependency on fertiliser production could be its own WTYP episode. Looking forward to the Well Dank’s Your Problem crossover now!
26:18 My grandparents were married in Saginaw, Michigan, and my grandfather took my grandmother on a honeymoon. Since Niagara Falls was too far and a bit too conventional, they settled on the next best thing; Cuyahoga Falls. In Ohio. They drove several hours to get there and my grandmother - upon finding a local at the gas station - asked where the falls were, to which they answered that they were down the road and more like a rapids that the Niagara.
I have been to both of these locations..
Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio is the hometown of Calvin and Hobbes creator Bill Watterson, and the downtown looks a lot like Calvin’s hometown.
One of the few instances where I can’t wholly blame a disaster like this on an irresponsible/greedy company. Hooker literally told NFSD in writing that this land was not safe for anything except a park. They buy the land for $1 (which they would have gotten through ED anyway) then proceed to build a school with a playground directly on top. Developers begin building up the residential sections (which Hooker AGAIN advises against), breaking the clay seal multiple times. This place is my hometown and it never ceases to amaze me how inept and short sighted the city government has and still continues to be.
Hey Liam, I'm happy to hear that therapy's working out for you! You're my favorite part of these podcasts, and the episodes without you just aren't the same.
Yay Liam!
Yay Liam!!
Yay Liam!
yay Liam!
Yay Liam!
Yay Liam!
FYI, I used to babysit for Lois Gibbs' kids in high school. This was not in Love Canal or anywhere near it. Anyway, she was nice and her kids were pretty darn cool, so......
Love you guys!
My favorite part of this whole Love Canal saga was how they decided to deal with it by just putting more clay on top and testing the ground water more often. Totally solved the problem once and for all!
I absolutely adore Devon’s text side comments. Thank you for some fantastic laughs.
Gallagher passed away last November yo. Watermelons are no longer living in fear. Also I'd love a Techmoan collab too!
One last edit per Wikipedia. Love did up and disappear when collectors came calling:
He claimed to have left for England in 1897, seeking foreign investment[2]. Instead, having absconded with an unknown quantity of money, he practiced law in Cordova, Alaska for several years, then attempted to start a new model city scheme in the Puget Sound area[7] before settling on Lomax, Illinois in 1911. By 1914 "New Lomax" was bust, with Love netting $250,000[8]. In 1929 he tried once more, claiming to have 15,000 acres for the location of "New City," Delaware[9], which similarly failed to materialize.
Points to Alice for mentioning Ramos Gin Fizz. Someone needs to do art of Alice, as a '40's femme fatale, ordering a 'Love Canal' from Bartender Roz while Liam slumps on a barstool in the background. Look good on a Tee.
Y'all released this the same hour I found out my dad died.
I just want to say thanks for the show, I always enjoy it, and I know it'll help take my mind off things in between sessions of ugly crying.
oh man, I’m so sorry. 😢 my condolences to you and your family.
Much love to you, friend. Take it easy on yourself.
My heart is with you. Life is hard but you can handle hard things. Take care of yourself please. 🫂
Fuck.
I.. forgot that happened. It was so traumatic I just didn't remember even making that comment.
And thank you, everyone. It still gives me nightmares, but I'm doing okay.
I can only assume that Alice's reaction to being told how much power she has over you two is evidence she has even more than you realize, plus motivation to use it. So good luck :)
Soft Power Bottom? Free Twitter handle?
@@UntoTheBreach24 finally someone gets me
You mean the "I could just say you're transphobic" thing? Yup. That's scary. It's similar to "I could say you don't like the Chairman" in China :D
Love Devon's hit marker noise when they added comments. Brings back mlg montage memories
"Before we can talk about the desaster at Love Canal... we first have to ask ourselves:
What is-"
Me: "Love?"
"Niagara Falls"
"Oh"
My Amtrak train got disabled in North Carolina and arrived five and a half hours late in Raleigh... got kicked out of the train station at 11 pm because it closed while waiting for my ride. Had a marginally better time listening to this episode in the train station parking lot. Feels like wtyp's natural habitat somehow. Thanks wtyp
Doesn't hold a candle to Love's Gas Station. They have gar snacks, flavored drinks, nick-knacks, and medieval combat armor.
This is so.
I've worked on a few big superfund sites. They can be interesting places when everything has been demolished for decades and nature takes over. There's just that pesky underlying soil and groundwater contamination being the reason for the re-wilding.
i absolutely require a devon supercut to continue to function as a hooman being
This really answers the question: what if The Colour Out of Space happened in upstate New York and then there was a podcast about engineering disasters about it. With slides.
I have a relative of some sort who was inside a silo checking something when they started pouring in several tons more grain and he ended up dying. Don't go into confined spaces willingly. The only time you might catch me in a confined space is if, when we finally get the so-called Big One earthquake, happens to collapse and trap me within it. I am so worried about this sort of thing that, in addition to the recommended shoes by the bed, I also have some extrication tools, water, food, and weed in my room near my bed just in case.
We had a tornado tear through my town a week and a half ago. We piled into the closet with our cats, and vape pens. Priorities...
My condolences.
Today I am proud to say I pitched in 2 bucks during the commercial for the patreon. I work in 1 hr chunks & listen to the pod while doing so. Having at this point, gone through the entire catalogue of episodes multiple times - I figured I can contribute a bit more. Thank you for the work WTYP team. Also Yay Liam, and Hey Hi, Devon.
I know you aren't gonna release the East Palestine ep and I respect that. But if there were any particularly excellent RozRants™ in it, is there a snowball's chance that we might get a sneaky supercut of them at sooooome point? Love a good rant.
Ahhhh... After a hard day in the Oklahoma cannabis mines, I come home to my favorite podcast by my favorite people. Thank you for these episodes...you bring a lot of joy to a lot of people.
I only just now noticed how "Safety Third' is actually
- get this - the third segment of _WTYP!_
my adhd has been a fuckening recently so thank god y'all are back, you guys are one of the best self medications I have until such time as I manage to get on meds
also solidarity with Liam for getting mental health shit in better order this year
Mood, I use these to help my brain get through a task, the conversation and occasional image is enough to keep me engaged in the same room, while not being a constant video that I need to keep watching. Perfect for dishes or laundry folding.
Hope you get some medication for it soon, it doesn't fix all the problems but it really helps with executive dysfunction and the feeling of being stuck between tasks.
My ADHD medicine is currently unavailable literally anywhere in the world due to shortage so I feel you, wishing you and all other ADHD squad members the best
@effluviah oh, wow that sucks. Is that the only one that works for you? I was tried on two different ones before we gave the third more old-school one a try, which actually worked.
Same, trucker here and this tone of conversation works great and makes time fly.
Damn so in not the only one this podcast satisfys both the ADHD and the autism
It’s wild to listen in on the ending of this one and to think of how many new homes continue to be built surrounding the wonderful Rocky Flats site, one of many Super Fund sites around Denver. The horse statue that’s encased in a haz mat suit and wearing a gas mask is like the only good thing about goin near there.
Niagara on the lake is a tourist trap town that i am also oddly fond of! Liam has good taste.
I can't believe they didn't mention how they took two EPA employees hostage.
Mike mulligan was deep within me this whole time, and I only remembered because of you guys.
I'm happy with the current level of Roz, Alice and Liam. Now it is time for M O A R D E V O N
Former diesel engine engineer here: DEF is used in the Selective Catalytic Reduction systems of certain Tier 4 diesel engines to reduce NOx into Nitrogen and water.
I am a huge fan of whatever mode Liam gets into when he explains, like at the Niagara Falls part, or the Taking The Worst Shit Story. Yay Liam
My love canal often becomes an environmental disaster zone after eating some delightful Tim Hortons and causing a Niagara Falls in my bathroom. Who knew they put hexavalent chromium in their delicious iced coffee?
Are you turned on right now?
In the jab too
Regarding the decline of upstate NY towns, I went to SUNY Oswego for college in the mid 2010s, and during that time the next city to the south, Fulton, took down their city limits sign that had the slogan "Fulton, the city with a future".
......the Nestle plant closed the year I graduated from Oswego. Also in the same year the Orangemen won the men's NCAA basketball tournament.....memories...
Aw fuck yeah we are off to a flying start, 20 seconds in and I am YAY LIAMing out of my mind
This is why I don't begrudge the precision scheduled podcasting, I love this.
The fact that Alice and Liam are dankpods watchers is very in character and as a dankpods fan I am very much looking forward to the incorporation of dank pods ridiculous lingo
Well there’s your pkcell
I knew as soon as Alice started saying "nugget" she'd been watching some Garbage Time. His drum channel is also cromulent... fuck I love that word.
Liam had some real character development in the first 5 minutes of the episode, glad to see that you're doing therapy and doing better because of it.
The Well There's Your Problem lore expands!
I often listen to these while on long drives for work, and Devon adding in the hitmarker noise for their comments is delightful to let me know there are moments I can come back to when it's safe for me to read, thank you boss! 🐻
Love Devon confirming having kompromat on everyone they work with
I listen during work, so hearing Devon’s notifications for edit stuff is helpful for actually appreciating the edits.
got fired for looking at my phone. still worth it.
the funny thing about the Springfield derailment and Alice bringing up peeing Calvin is that Bill Watterson lives in Ohio (and has for the last 58 years)
Always love it when my former employers get mentioned as an auditory jump scare from podcasts. First Raytheon now DB Schenker
59:00. Tyco (Mantua), Pemco, Athearn, Life-Like and AHM all produced that livery in their HO scale tank car line in the 70's. Lionel made them in O scale. They were also made in N scale. They're still made today. It appears the marketing folks at Hooker/Occidental were/are OK with it.
I lived at the mouth of the Niagara River for several years in the late 90s. My dad was in the Coast Guard and had to recover the corpse of a guy who went over the falls on a jet ski. I've also seen the falls so many times that they've lost all meaning. Go to the Grand Canyon instead, it's much better.
Thank you all for covering this; it cleared up a lot of misconceptions I had. Also thank you Devon for adding audio cues about when I shouls look for extra jokes
thank yall, this is a wonderful birthday gift 🦊❤️
Happy Birthday!
Happy Birthday
Happy Birthday!
A day late for mine but I'm not complaining!
Learning that Liam is a Dankpods fan makes me really want an AKG acquisition bonus episode.
GET DANKPODS ON THE POD LIAM!!!
As a recent former NS employee that worked at Conway Terminal where the 32N was headed I’d be happy to weigh in on any questions you might have regarding NS practices as the relate to the east Palestine disaster.
The painted red line crossing out the C in "Love Canal" on the map around 1:00:00... Beautiful
I can say I have also succumbed to Dank Pods syndrome and refer to most everything as a nugget
Dang, after hearing keywords like Westinghouse, Tesla, and Niagara Falls, I thought for sure that this one was going to be about the accidental crushing of the Schoellkopf power station.
I hope you all try not to let having to scrap the NS episode and getting a bit behind schedule bother you too much. As great as timely episodes can be accuracy and getting the big picture behind these failures is more of what drives the show than anything. Otherwise episodes like the Ashtabula Horror wouldn't be of interest. But if you want to release the Safety Third you recorded as a bonus or something that could be nice!
Also I don't know if Devon will see this but the hitmarkers for every little aside were great.
Hell yeah, take over Dollywood! My childhood theme park! Will totally go if you guys come to East TN or anywhere else in the Southeast if I can lol
niagara falls for me is a memory of playing Asphalt 4 on my DSi in a hotel room while my dad snores in the corner because there was literally nothing to do in that entire city after day 2
So Liam doesn't respect fish and men without a mustache but what about a fish with a mustache
He’s mentioned not liking catfish, the most obvious mustached fish, in the Lac Peigneur episode.
*seeing video* Oh boy, I can't wait to learn all about canals and how waterway infrastructure works :^)
*52 minutes in* Wow, this is a lot of electrical engineering stuff
Yeah, I suppose they didn't have to go through the whole history of the electrical industry just to explain why there was a mile-long abandoned ditch in East Niagara Falls. However, besides being interesting in itself, it's all context that helps to explain the minds of the people who made infrastructure and land use decisions that people are now still living with.
@@levanataylor790 Oh yeah, to be clear, I love every moment of it.
The barrel over the falls museum at Niagara Falls is the the best. It's literally in a gas station mini-mart
If Alice wants to come to the US to look at very old hydro power she should come to Minneapolis/St.Paul. It has the largest hydraulic drop on the Mississippi and TONS of hydro power very much like what was shown for Niagra falls.
*BONUS*: The Washburn A Mill (the largest mill in the world when the thing happened) would make a great WTYP episode.
I LOVED Mike Mulligan and his steam shovel as a kid!!! Surprised to see it mentioned here
Dankpods, Aging Wheels, and of course, the original Nuggeteers: Mighty Car Mods. All 3 amazing channels, and 2 of 3 are Australian!
I love this podcast because its very tightly focused autism interspersed with anecdotes I'm pretty sure I've already heard on Tech Diffs Citation Needed.
WTYP is just my AuDHD in audio form. I love it
On the topic of buried barrels of toxic waste ruining a water table, Ciba-Geigy in NJ is a good candidate for an episode. Lots of industrial waste leached into the water table causing a spike in cancer rates in the surrounding towns. Ciba as a company had a long history of chemical dumping that is wildly careless
Don't forget the random ass barge that's still stuck somewhere above the horseshoes falls😅
But I thought Sawenhalve Scrap got rid of it
I fucking love the DankPods tie in. As soon as Alice said "nugget" I was like YOOOOOOOO
Devon's hit marker sound and text were immaculate
40:07 man that takes me back !mike mulligan and his steam shovel I loved that book as a kid
Liam has the power of the purse and the pinned comment.
46:40 the reason why transformers need to be AC is that it's the change in chooching that makes the other cable's elechickens wiggle right.
You can’t do a derailment episode until they take a break from derailing every week, I think
The US averages 1700-something "derailments" a year.
maybe they only work on the podcast for every hour not occupied with a railway mishap.
Excellent episode as always. Loved hearing Liam's story at the beginning. He's the most enjoyable part of this pod!
The Great Lakes Brewing Company makes a banger of a porter named after the Edmund Fitzgerald. Highly recommend
Agreed