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Myths are dangerous. The thing is, people have too much faith in their state and society. There needs to be a distinction between calling everything part of a rape culture, including porn and all male favored activities, and real issues. You'll have to distance this sort of thing from "patriarchy" whining feminists.
Rape Culture was coined in prison, the only known and genuine Rape Culture, where rape is viewed literally as 'social currency', followed very closely by the military, where rape is viewed as 'a Perk of the Job'. Feminists have Highjacked and Subverted, as they often do, 'rape culture', as a mere slogan in order to bolster their "personal is political" mission to make society an inhospitable place for males - men and boys.
@@tubebility Rape culture does not just exist in prisons in the US, the biggest problem we have is on our college campuses. Reports to the college are dismissed, downplayed, not investigated properly and the rapist rarely prosecuted. The colleges do not want to pay out a settlement to the victims of a law suit, and they don't want bad press associated with the incident so they don't do anything. There are no consequences, and that creates a rape culture.
I didn't realise at first that this was filmed during the lockdown. You guys don't seem to have been socially distancing in the studio there. Shouldn't you have been doing that interview on Zoom or something?
I think the cards are stacked against the attractive girls. The ugly girls are less affected. Especially if you are a rich ugly and trans woman. That is the privileged class. Like when I am attractive, I am getting "sexualy assaulted" (I am so privileged, I can't even get raped) by women. And I can even grab the women by the puss. And women love it!!
I am glad they are finally cracking down on this nonsense here in the states. It has been going on too long. Women need to stop putting themselves in dangerous situations after drinking. There friends who they came to the party with disperse and victims are left alone to trust a stranger after drinking. I know many women who have been raped after drinking at college parties; it happens all the time and with very little accountability. There is even one frat house I know of that taught their members how to strategically date rape women. They TAUGHT them. Most of the colleges abolished fraternities because of the trouble they caused, but some still remain. There should be a way for young people to socialize safely. And campuses should reiterate safety rules for women frequently and provide support for women who request security walking them across campus or to their cars at night.
@@HisWordisLife4U Man, if I would be able to claim rape, I think 100 people would be in jail now. Everytime I would get really drunk, I would wake-up in a strange place, sometimes naked.... A couple times I thought "my ass/balls feel funny, was I just raped by that guy/girl?". I've never told this to anybody. I've only promised myself to never drink again. And all this bullshit that women are scared. I am terrified, & women are jumping into the cars with the complete strangers!! I literally had fights with the girlfriends because they would get in a car with a stranger(s). Look, I am scared that's why I carry a knife & don't even go out drinking. I only drink at home or with the very good friends & in a place where I can stay overnight.
@@HisWordisLife4U It's literally a crime. Legitimate rape cultures either don't criminalise rape, or at the very least make it all but impossible to prosecute. Be grateful that you don't live in such a place.
Because muh power dynamics... apparently men are on average bigger and stronger than women. Even though there are no differences between men and women.
The answer is in your question; modern western women are not required to take responsibility for any action they take nor face any consequences. That is why a large percentage of them are god awful and intolerable to be around.
I thought Luke Gittos’ comments were informative and nuanced. And I can not recall when, if ever, I’ve heard a discussion on this topic which generated more light than heat, as this one did. I was not familiar with his work. I’m so pleased you invited him on the show. Well done! I hope you will invite him back to discuss his new human rights book.
Great interview. The feminist idea that somewhere like Britain has a rape culture has always been absurd. Especially when many of those same feminists would never say that Islam, African or Caribbean cultures were rape cultures. As usual, feminists pick out the least macho, patriarchal and misogynistic culture and charge it with being the worst, whilst protecting or even celebrating those other cultures. For me this reveals a few things about feminism as an ideology. It’s Marxist roots. It has always had a Red post colonial heart, beavering away to undermine the capitalist West and prop up the oppressed. Also in our multiculti present reality, it has become racialised, with the epicentre of rape culture supposedly, not on the meanest streets in minority neighborhoods where murder is highest but in the ivory tower of academia where mostly upper middle class white boys roam menacingly. Luke does an amazing job of collapsing many of the myths feminists have built up around this concept. With one exception. He does try to rehabilitate the feminist myth that rape has nothing to do with sex. The people who say rape is not about sex are wrong. They’re correct to say it’s a violent act and about power. But it’s still at its root a sexual act, rooted in the sexual desires of the criminal. They’re aroused sexually by using violence and fear to sexually violate someone. That’s still explicitly sexual.
British feminists refused to oppose the "grooming" gangs, which targeted white vulnerable working class girls. They enabled the brutalization the girls were subjected to. Some even participated in the coverups. The truth is that the feminist movement is NOT consistently opposed to rape!
@@gloriouscontent3538 You are outright deranged if you think Islam is feminist in the slightest, let alone super feminist and not amount of screaming bigot would suffice at the extremely misogynistic nature of Islam. Hell, it doesn't even tell their women what their reward would be in their heaven. Go figure
This is the most comprehensive, well informed discussion of the topic I've ever seen. The only world worth living in, is one where we can all talk about a topic freely, in order to understand properly.
There are a lot of men charged with rape that for whatever reason the case is dropped before it comes to court. By that time the accused name is out there and the stigma of being accused is always going to be there and can hinder the accuseds future career.
It was a better idea to keep both names confidential until after the trial. If the victims name was always kept confidential, they would be more likely to come forward. And if a man is falsely accused, he should not be punished.
hiring people care much more about rumors of stealing from companies and spying for other companies than about rumours of rape. practically all the publicly accused celebrities few years ago are now back working.
@@Redmanticore It might be because they owned the companies...LOL. When you are arrested here in the states, it is a public record. On a job application you are asked if you have been arrested which may not have anything to do with a conviction. Supposedly we are living in a society where we are innocent until proven guilty but people are weeded out for jobs based solely on whether or not they were arrested. Maybe arrest records should not be public for any crime. I could see why they may be useful to the police. I wonder what the statistics are on women falsely accusing men of rape and taking it to the police.
The crime survey in Wales where they stopped asking women if they thought it was rape because they were both drunk seems like a power play to me by the feminist who are pushing this agenda that all men a potential rapist. If you truly believe that having consensual drunken sex with your wife or husband is rape then the concept of rape is about power is destroyed. Clearly, two drunks who love or like each other can decide to have sex while drunk. It is possible that neither will remember it the next day, but calling that rape is foolish at best and political opportunism at worst.
"It is possible that neither will remember it the next day, but calling that.." if you cannot remember it, how can you know exactly what happened? contracts are invalid if made while intoxicated, because cannot give consent. how could consent on sex be any different?
@@Redmanticore Using that logic, if you can't remember, how can one person say the other raped them? You can't. In addition, drunk people have been mutually agreeing to have sex with each other since alcohol was invented. All of a sudden now, adults are incapable of deciding because they are drunk? It doesn't make any sense. Being drunk does not relieve you of your responsibilities. If it did, neither person involved in the sex act would be responsible for their actions. If you are drunk and you drive car, get in a fight, or sleep through the next day's exam, you are still responsible for your actions. The laws and societal rules reflect this.
@@kdemetter The upstairs neighbours chatting with each other at a reasonable volume and bothering me through paper thin floors while I'm trying to sleep is an act of violence? ;-)
I dont know if violence is needed for it to be deemed rape. Lets say a guy wakes up and discovers to his shock that a random girl is sucking him of or mounted him. Obviously no violence has been used in this s scenario. There was no explicit not implicit consent. Therefore it should be labeled as rape.
@@Paul-sj5db Some also recognize 'forced to penetrate' as rape. The reason it's so complicated and difficult to create laws for is because people don't respect each other's boundaries in general and any overstep of boundaries is not the same as every other.
Go ask prison officers how rapists get treated by other prisoners in jail. Even amongst some of the most violent, disruptive people utterly despise them.
@@AkelasanAK rape allegations made to police or campus authority are estimated to be false approximately 2% to 10% of the time. that would suck, good thing it happens extremely rarely!
I don't know if the law in Pennsylvania has changed or not, but I had been appalled to learn that in order to classify as rape, the assailant had to use or threaten force against the victim. Thus, if a man broke into a woman's house and threatened to shoot her if she didn't submit, it was rape, but if he threatened to shoot her child if she didn't submit, it wasn't rape. I think nearly any mother who ever lived would be far more likely to submit to protect her child than to protect herself! Why would there be this loophole?!
This dude is smart. I like how he totally dodged you trying to talk about "the way women dress" and took the conversation in a direction that's actually productive.
Perfectly fair argument here, though I really wouldn't imagine violent pornography and rape aren't connected. Rapists surely don't watch 'normal' porn. And why should something as nasty as rape be depicted for such purposes? That's clearly a dangerous connection for people to make.
Apparently statistics show that violent pornography - pornography where women may be "raped" - is actually disproportionately watched by women. Some women seem to get off on that stuff. I've heard one explanation given is that the reason some women watch that stuff (and up to 30% of women report rape fantasies) is that it's not being raped itself that has appeal to them per se, but it's the notion of having someone else take control. I don't know what you'd think.
@@tobiasolds1550 ' find that a little difficult to believe although I've heard it. I was mobbed on a news article which proposed a 'ban' on it years ago and none of the responders seemed to be female on that occasion.
@@mzmoth I think statistics are collected by those who actually visit the porn websites in question. Could just be the intra-sexual variation in women - you can't stand the idea of violent porn, but other women get off to that. Do you think the average women, even if she's into it, will admit as much? Even to close friends? The general taboo around pornography is as such that it's not likely the amount of interest, particularly in women, would accurately be broadcast to the wider culture. I have the general sense that women commonly have an innate reticence to discuss what really turns them on as well.
@@tobiasolds1550 I don't know what to make of those stats but my understanding is that they can vary pretty wildly from source to source? I'd still doubt that's proof women get off on rape. I have heard this from other women although I doubt anyone who genuinely thinks so knows what it's like to be smacked about by someone twice their size. I thought they were probably just as eager to please as the women who pretend they have a vaginal Gspot.
@@mzmoth Perhaps. My argument is not so much they get off on rape, but dominance and control (which I think can have healthy and unhealthy outlets). If you think they're eager to please, I would find it amenable to my views that women also would get off "pleasuring" their partners in whatever way they thought.
Great to hear a serious and yet an interesting and nuanced discussion without the need to constantly mention "left-wing".."right-wing".."politics". Good job guys :)
its just so weird to see someone think any woman or person would randomly want to convict someone of rape if they didnt do it. it doesnt undo the rape or ‘not rape’
years ago, a newspaper columnist made a perfect comment: "Just because she wore a tight halter top and tight shorts and spent the evening drinking and leaning provocatively over the pool table (in other words, she was truly "looking for it") that doesn't mean she was looking for it from YOU!"
I don't know it. In fact, none of the women I have been acquainted with in my adult life have ever been raped. Strange. Of course, the answer is feminists don't know it either. They just "feel" it, which is something totally different. Knowing something needs to be based on fact; feeling something can be the product of a febrile deluded mind. They want it to be the case so that they can blame males for the difficulties they experience in life, instead of blaming themselves, as most males do, and finding their own solutions.
How many of them went to the police, how many of them completed a rape kit, how many actually had evidence presented in front of a jury? What are the chances you're talking out of your backside or at the very leat missing a metric tonne of details that might shed some light?
This is an excellent discussion. This guy is speaking in a very intelligent, articulate, thoughtful, well informed and empathetic way about a very complex and difficult topic. Top quality guest and discussion.
An interview with Diana Davison who runs the Lighthouse Project would add a further dimension to this subject. The Lighthouse Project offers support to men wrongly accused of sexual-assault and rape. Diana has her own YT channel.
It is a rape culture when more that half the women you know have experienced sexual assault in some degree and have never reported it, or the majority of your family members have experienced it and never reported it. People who deny rape culture in this country are the ones who do not have real intimate relationships with their friends and loved ones. If you want to know if America has a rape culture, do a social experiment and ask your friends and family ( if they feel comfortable enough with you) if they have experienced sexual assault in any degree and tally the number of yes and the number of them who have not reported it.
Your personal experiences do not indicate a “rape culture” overall. Anecdotes and emotionalism are not evidence and cannot be used to make sweeping judgements about society as a whole.
@@AnonymousC-lm6tc The problem is how do you define assault. Historically you needed clear physical evidence of violence. Then they expanded it with drugged which makes sense but in time the expansion started to get too broad. To the point it now means 'that sex wasn't great'. The problem is criminalising situations in which no one was at fault and indoctrinating people into assuming if your encounter wasn't the best ever then it was r ape. There's a difference between 'I got a headache from last night' and r ape. But for them they're one and the same.
@@florinivan6907how many women have been randomly groped by a man they weren't even romantically involved with? Maybe even by a complete stranger. Is that not sexual assault?
i get his point about removing all adiminity in the court case but i wonder what he thinks when it comes to media interaction? they should limit what the media can report until the case is concluded things like names or other things that could reveal identity.
The word he used is Anonymity. I do wonder if it would be beneficial to all accused to remain anonymous until they are convicted. Think of how the murder cases in Arizona and Florida get played up by the media because they are allowed to be in the courtroom. Then if there is a mistrial the potential jury pool has been sullied inexplicably. I would like to hear the argument of publishing mugshots before conviction; is it mainly just supposed to be a deterrent to crime?
@@HisWordisLife4U There is perjury and wasting police time. Neither are given as heavy a sentence as 10 years as you might get with a rape conviction. It is rare they get used when it comes to rape allegations. Also, they are actually crimes against the state not the individual who has suffered as a consequence of the lies. There have been unsuccessful attempts for False Allegations to be made a crime, but the political will has never been there.
@@jameswilliamsgb Maybe there should be reform to what UK used to do and that is keeping all parties confidential until after someone is convicted. I thought there was a minimum amount of evidence needed for anything to go to court. I was also under the impression that physical evidence was necessary for a rape conviction without witnesses. Women who have been raped often don't want to run right over to the ER and have someone roaming about in the places they were just violated and often hurt by a male physician for obvious reasons, so physical evidence is not usually gathered. Maybe if they sent a female nurse to someone's home to gather the evidence, it might increase the participation. College campuses are involved in the investigations for some reason if a rape happens on their campus. They should have nothing to do with it. I think lying to the police is also a crime. A lot to consider. One thing is for sure, we need reform in this area.
My college psych teacher told me that longer jail time does not decrease the likelihood of crime being committed. In order to reduce crime, you must increase the possibility that the criminals will be caught. Maybe it should be illegal for alcohol to be served on college campuses unless distributed by a licensed bartender in a building complete with security, chaperones and designated taxis. The presence of officers on campus walking and driving around on a regular basis available for reports and early intervention. We need to increase the chances real criminals will be caught, and once caught, given a fair trial. I think women are generally fed up with the lack of reform and tolerance for rape. They are triggered and know something needs to be done. It is wrong to generically lash out at men for this, and it wont help fix it. If men are made aware, we all can work together to improve both sides of the problems.
@@HisWordisLife4U I think that lying to the police comes under "wasting police time". This is an offence against the police (i.e. the state) The problem with reform is that due to the strength of the feminist lobbyists, it will be more towards increasing convictions rather than better justice. There has been great resistance to granting automatic anonymity to the accused. Also, if you are found not guilty, it remains on your CRB so that you will not get employment in many areas.
I don't think I've heard anyone excusing rape because of the way victims dress or behave. What I have heard is people pointing out that women who put themselves in dangerous positions are failing to take responsibility for their own safety in much the same way as anyone would be if they left their car window open or walked down a dangerous alley in the dark. Feminists like to cast this as rape enabling and then go on to assert that it is a woman's right to do whatever she wants and if anything happens to her it is the fault of all men to take responsibility for the perpetrator. I don't believe that defendants get a fair shake in the justice system. There are too many feminists in the system and feminist activist groups providing unscientific "experts" trying to set precedents so that they can up the conviction rate on flimsier and flimsier evidence. The lengths the police and CPS went to to prosecute Mark Pearson in the face of the evidence should have been an eye-opener.
I read about Mark Pearson. That was not ok either. Rape culture is affecting both sides badly, but it shouldn't pit women against men. Men can be plied with liquor, slipped a date rape drug and be raped too. We should both work together to make rape culture a thing of the past and make our countries better in this area for men and women.
@Just one more thing Most rapes go unreported completely. No one really has a lot of faith in the system for the victim or the accused. How should we encourage victims to report and keep innocent men safe? What do you suggest? Gotta start somewhere...
To avoid being mugged, you should never take money out of an ATM in a bad neighborhood where you might be watched, you shouldn't walk alone at night in a bad neighborhood, and you shouldn't dress with obvious signs of wealth while walking alone at night in a bad neighborhood. *Thank you so much for this wise advice* To avoid being a burglary victim, you should install a security system. Don't plant shrubs near windows. Have outdoor lights, especially motion-sensor lights. Keep your doors and windows locked. *Thank you so much for this wise advice* To avoid being a victim of car theft, don't leave your car unlocked, especially with the keys in the ignition. Park your car in a well-lighted space. *Thank you so much for this wise advice* To avoid being attacked by a bear, make noise when hiking. Don't put food in your tent. *Thank you so much for this wise advice* To avoid being raped -- *HOW DARE YOU BLAME THE VICTIM*
@@thesisypheanjournal1271 We should live in a world where people are safe from rape. Or at least when they are caught, they are punished instead of everyone acting like it was sex between two consenting adults and no one's business. When will people realize when rape is tolerated, it makes the world worse for everyone.
@@HisWordisLife4U And we should live in a world where people are safe from muggings, burglary, and car theft as well. Predators exist and the wise person takes precautions to avoid them. When they strike -- as they will because there will always be human evil -- the perpetrators must be identified and punished. But that doesn't mean that we should live stupidly.
This guy is so intelligent and lucid, I've learnt a lot about the law in just 35 minutes (and I'm still learning!). Wish he'd pronounce "PREvalence" and "PREvalent" properly, though!
That's what I like about their chanel as well. They allow people to speak on the subjects they are knowledgeable in without trying to control the conversation. I'm glad there is independent media that has a platform for these discussions.
I think I mostly agree with the talking points and the complexity of those points. The point I know I don't agree with is "The police are understaffed", they are simply prioritizing the wrong things.
I made the comment because I have stories of cases where both parties had been drinking, but ended up with he being investigated for rape, not her. One such occasion led to a teenage boy taking his own life. He thought the girl loved him but his relationship with her turned it into a deadly nightmare. A year to the day he died his mother took her own life as she could not live when her only child lay dead. His accuser has remained free and anonymous without redress. Feminist pressure has slewed rape to satisfy an ideological narrative at the cost of justice.
Lol the guy 100 percent acknowledges that rape culture is real and bad but then says its different from people who are serially sexually violent. Okay....
Hmm I believe you were not listening properly, having said that I can think of certain societies where there is actually something resembling a tape culture...
I still don't understand how women who consent to sex while drunk are not responsible for their actions, but if they get behind the wheel of a car they are responsible.
Define consent. It is impossible in most cases to physically fend off a man as a woman and when you are drunk it is even harder to physically stop a male who is drunk and has an agenda. Best not to get yourself in that situation where you cannot escape or have little choice in the matter. For women it's kind of like the frog sitting in a pot of water and as it heats up, it goes from relaxing to dangerous without clear lines of distinction by design and strategy of the male. Having said that I am sure there are some women that feel guilty after consenting while drunk, the majority are simply overcome and no consent is ever given, either verbal or otherwise.
@@HisWordisLife4U I'm not talking about nonconsensual sex while drunk I'm talking about women and men who were drunk and horny and consented, but one or both may not remember what they did or regret what they did. It seems activist are trying to turn this into a sexual assault situation. We are getting some of this on the college campuses here in the States. There is a huge problem with due process on campuses.
@@axepagode33626 Everyone is entitled to due process. I guess they would have to define consent. Lack of objecting is not necessarily consent; it could be fear of something worse happening when faced with someone who can physically over power you. Best for women not to get themselves in that situation in the first place. I know many women who have been raped at or after college parties in the states. It is good they are cracking down on it; it's way overdue. A Frat in Washington was actually teaching guys how to get females in positions strategically so they could not refuse. They were GIVEN strategic date rape instructions.
@@michaeldooley3642 What exactly are you saying is a lot of crap? No one said women don't also behave badly. That has nothing to do with what we are talking about. I wouldn't know how women behave in pubs cause I don't hang around there. If anyone grabbed my private parts, I would think you could at least get them kicked out of the pub. That is assault. it's a good idea for everyone to be respectful of one another. It's not an either or proposition here.
@@HisWordisLife4U many women have been raped at college , no they haven't ,you sound like your lying , i don't know any woman that's been raped , because its very rare .
Good interview, though I take issue with his claim that rape is nothing to do with sex. This is the feminist myth of rape as an expression power over/hate of women. Steven Pinker demolished this argument in this book The Blank Slate. Firstly, most rape victims are young (therefore sexually attractive), men given sex drive suppressant drugs hardly never commit rape and the argument is illogical (eg. no one argues muggers commit their crime to exert power over people, they do it to steal money).
How are young women more 'vulnerable' than older ones? That makes no sense. And chemical castration has been shown to reduce sexual desire so talking about the ability to get an erection misses the point.
@@iliyakuryakin4671 because if they're very young they may not be powerful or educated enough on the issue or even physically strong enough to fight back. Same way a lot of rapists target children and scare them into silence.
@@iliyakuryakin4671 no he said they were 65 percent under 24, not exactly 24. I think the attractiveness of youth has something to do with it, but I think the naivete and weakness of youth is also very likely a factor.
Legally and interpersonally, the concept of consent is a minefield. I don’t think I have ever verbally consented to anything sexual ever. Consent is arrived at by body language and the lack of saying NO. Even saying no can be part of the interpersonal dance leading up to consent. If men took no for an answer every time they showed interest or leant in for that first kiss, they would never have sex ever. Most women begin the interpersonal dating game by making the man pursue them after an initial knock back and rarely verbally, explicitly say “ok I give you my consent”. The concept of consent makes victims and perpetrators of just about everyone on planet earth. Yet we need to have some way of ascertaining If someone was consenting, to identify the very real crime of rape. A very difficult legal tightrope to walk.
We have to be clear we don't want to do whatever - move away from the situation if we feel that sends the message . If there is no threat or force and we haven't dissented - no grounds for accusing rape . What feminists are responding to with their call for explicit consent is first time encounters where a woman has an anxiety attack , perhaps in the midst of kissing - feeling she's lead the man on and scared to say no to going further . Unless the person is visibly distressed the man wouldnt necessarily know the person wasn't into it Sometimes we don't handle situations as we would like because anxiety : just have to put it down to experience. Feminazis must not be allowed to redefine the word rape - to require explicit consent - resulting in men being convicted of something as heinous as that on spurious grounds .
I think it may have more to do with strategy and drinking alcohol, being drunk, or being given a date rape drug, or isolating the victim and what condition she was in and was she able to consent. There are men who strategically stack the deck to the point the woman is afraid and feels like they have to participate or something worse could happen to her. Before any of the other things that can happen to make her less able to say no, women are already starting at a disadvantage not being able to physically fend a man off. That is before all the other things can happen.
1234constantine Sure, but such men are rare and in the meantime, how, legally, does one prove in court, that a man trying to woo a woman in a pub, bar or club. Buying her drinks or perhaps sharing drugs millions of people take willingly every weekend, before trying to get in her knickers, is a rapist, when ordinary, healthy people do exactly the same things before consensual sex. We’ve already ascertained that in most cases, humans rarely, if ever verbally grant consent. No is often part of the initial heterosexual dance and in a country like Britain, drink and narcotics are commonly taken willingly by both parties. So other than how the woman feels subjectively, or the man’s intent, things we cannot truly know without Minority Report, retrospective mind reading technology. Things in the unseen privacy of both parties minds. We have no way of knowing the difference between a healthy liaison and a manipulative one. Especially when one adds in retrospective subjective feelings! “I don’t remember much but I feel bad about it a week later therefore it must’ve been rape” Sure there are the obvious cases. Violent stranger rape or rape where witnesses saw a man carrying an unconscious woman away and she tested positive for rohypnol. But the rest is subjective. What is the difference between buying a consenting adult drinks and trying to get her alone for a snog, and “plying” a “victim” with alcohol and trying to “isolate” her for “exploitation”? It’s all entirely subjective and what looks like a smoking gun when using words like “plying”, “victim” and “isolating”, could be completely innocent, in fact healthy and obviously so when we put less loaded words on it. Was he plying or buying? Strategizing or wooing? Was he isolating his prey or trying to get the girl he fancied alone? Was she consenting or not? Is she a consenting adult or a victim? It’s all in the spin. Subjective and open to either interpretation. Down to the private, unseeable feelings of the woman and private, unseeable intentions of the man. So once we leave the realm of violent stranger rape or obvious drink spiking, into the concept of date rape, were essentially guessing. Going with our subjective feelings about the private unseeable subjective feelings of a pair of intoxicated strangers at some date in the distant past where there were no witnesses to the actual event. An act that is totally legal if in the privacy of the woman’s mind, at the time it was happening, there was no resistance. So everything else you’ve added into the mix actually are just as hard to pin down legally as consent. Buying drinks is legal, trying to get the someone alone is legal. Sex is legal and humans rarely verbally consent or have witnesses hanging around during sex. So beyond violent stranger rape or spiked drinks, it’s a legal guessing game.
@@honestjohn6418 I see what you are saying. I think it would be hard to prove but it does happen and it happens a lot. I think more so in the upper classes in subcultures that tolerate it, in some cases encourage, and even expect it. This kind of predator selects their victims carefully. University campuses in particular are one place I know it happens. I do not think most men act like this, of course not. From my experience it is men who feel insulated by power or privilege who think they can easily get away with it, who are the problem. The best way to avoid these situations is to not be alone with a stranger while drinking. Don't ever go to a secondary location with them after you have had too much to drink or drugs, and pay for and retrieve your own drinks to make sure there is nothing in them. I am mostly talking about stranger rape and spiked drinks...but date rape happens too. In California No means NO and if she says anytime during the wooing, kissing or otherwise NO, No means no and there is no excuse to go any further period. I don't think we can say that just because someone takes drugs willingly they are asking to be raped as well, but it sure ups the chances it can happen, because they are more vulnerable. I think it is necessary to look at the whole picture from start to finish. Strategically isolating the woman is a key factor for me...Did you ask her if she wanted to go home or did you just drive her half conscious to your home without asking? It is wrong for people to take advantage of a weaker person who is too young or is in no shape to give their consent whether it is from their willful ingesting of alcohol or drugs or whether they were slipped a date drug. IMO men should not take advantage of women in this condition. There is no excuse for it.
1234constantine The problem with that, is that means, subjectively, we’re all simultaneously rapists and victims. Most women initially say no, verbal consent is almost never attained and most people, at least in the Anglosphere, get inebriated before they engage in wooing and sex. When I was younger I was having sex with a slightly older woman. We were both extremely drunk and high. I drifted in and out of consciousness as she jumped my bones. I didn’t care, at the time but it was embarrassing and awkward in retrospect. If I now define her failure to notice my drifting in and out of consciousness, as assault, how would she conceivably be able to defend herself from my accusation? Well, if she were a man and I a woman, she wouldn’t and would face at best, total reputation destruction and at worst a couple of decades in prison! Having such a strict interpretation of what is and is not acceptable sexually, may capture the minority of genuine perpetrators but it also makes victims and perps of all of us. Leading to miscarriages of justice on an industrial scale. Also I think it’s questionable to say “privilege” heightens the possibility of such crimes when poverty, lawlessness and lack of privilege clearly is correlated with higher rates of sexual crimes. But that would lead to the stigmatisation of minorities and poor people, so we quite rightfully avoid using it as an indicator. The whole idea that middle class “privileged” white men in universities or boardrooms are more likely to be sexual predators, is no different, and has about as much evidence for saying, young black men in underprivileged, high crime neighbourhoods have a higher propensity to sexual predation. There’s sound evidence of that but we sensibly and purposely avoid making that connection.
The problem is you have people who want to behave in a risky fashion, and then force the government/law to make up for their risky choices. This is on both men and women's sides. Some women want to behave in a risky manner, invite male attention, and then either deny it or regret the outcome later. Some men want to have sex with lots of women, and then get upset when one of them tricks him into pregnancy and marriage. Risky behavior should have consequences, and the law should never be used to alleviate or reverse those consequences. If you're a woman and you're inviting the attention or not making your intentions crystal clear to the men around you, or you refused to indicate you wanted something to stop and then claim later that you were taken advantage of, that's on you. Same with men who do not strongly vet the women they get involved with for responsibility and maturity. Enough with using the LAW to make up for the STUPID CHOICES of idiots.
i understand what youre trying to say but be careful how you put it, as you are conflating someone removing consent retroactively and someone wanting to "invite male attention", everyone can invite all the attention that they want and then say no which may upset the other party, thats not risk thats personal choice, and is not the same as removing consent after the fact. And really isnt the same as men being tricked into fatherhood.... I think i know what you mean but your examples are a form of false equivalency. People have free choice end of peoples choices can influence other peoples actions Nobody gets a free pass for sexual assault nobody should be able to withdraw consent retroactively
@@LazyGoose872 Let me put it in another form of hypothetical. What if I invited the attention of my neighbors by parking an unlocked Lamborghini on the street in Compton. Now, for about 5-6 hours, I would be the envy of everyone on the neighborhood, I would get lots of attention from everyone who wants that Lambo. Now presumably as soon as I fell asleep, that car would be gone. What if I then arrogantly presume that laws must change because I refuse to change my behavior in response to a predictable level of criminal activity? Who is in the wrong there? Would you honestly suggest that laws that are solely in existence to reduce the risk for risky behavior are a proper use of law? Law cannot remove bad elements in society, it can only prosecute their bad actions after the fact. So why do we tolerate people saying that laws must change, indeed culture must radically change, in order to accommodate someone who behaves in a way that invites the attention of criminals? Again, if I could kill every rapist before they commit the act, I would. But none of us are mind-readers, we don't know who the rapists are until they act. So why should laws change to absolve those who engage in risky behavior and in the process put everyone else (the law abiding people) in the ridiculous situation of having to choose which life to destroy when he-said/she-said cases erupt?
@@jeremyrainman jeremyrainman okay I really tried with that but I'm feeling theres a general point you wanted to make with both your comments, as the car example is irrelevant. it is illegal to steal and the person who had the car stolen, regardless of their decisions up to that point is not responsible for others actions. It would be more effective for you to explain what you meant in the first comment I think as human interactions are completely and categorically different to property theft. People that act like idiots or make risky decisions as you put it are indeed more likely to be on the receiving end of undesired treatment in one form or another, but legally, assuming everyone is telling the truth about a situation, the law is on the side of the victim. The way you act by flirting, inviting attention or owning a fancy car has nothing to do with another individuals actions, only asking someone to do something and then complaining after they did it would be comparable from a logical standpoint. A better parallel would be that the car was broken into and not that it was left open for it to be stolen, as you cant state that inviting attention implicitly means anything, as like you also say, you cant read minds. So I'm sorry if I'm missing something obvious but the points you are making arent logically equivalent as far as I can tell....?
@@LazyGoose872 *....it is illegal to steal and the person who had the car stolen, regardless of their decisions up to that point is not responsible for others actions.* Now it is clear you are interjecting your own imagination into my words. Nothing that I have said implies that rape should be legal. Rape has been illegal for centuries if not from the dawn of rule of law. Normal men will actually sacrifice their life to save women and children from this sort of harm, even the lives of women and children they do not know, this has basically been proven by psychological studies. Nothing that I have said can be taken to say that the rapist is not responsible for their actions, but you interpreted it that way. I think you should ask yourself why you interpreted it that way before continuing. What I said was that changing laws BECAUSE of the risky behavior of the victim is BAD LAW, and any law based on such a notion is guaranteed to create a police state at some point down the line. Laws that attempt to make a criminal decision based on which person was "more drunk", or "had the right biology", or any other entirely irrelevant facts to the incident in question will take otherwise good law and give license to those who use it to alter innocent peoples lives based on the judgement of 12 people on an incident in the lives of the defendant/accuser that they were not witness to. Justice was never meant to work this way, it was designed to be imperfect and come to no conclusions when the facts cannot be known. *but legally, assuming everyone is telling the truth about a situation, the law is on the side of the victim.* That is fundamentally untrue. The purpose of law is to make a determination of whether or not the facts of a case constitute a violation of law. Sometimes (hopefully rarely) the law is against the victim because it was the victim who violated the law.
Has a crime been committed if a woman entices a man into sexual intercourse having ensured he is either drunk, or under the influence of something else, which renders him unable to make a responsible decision based on informed consent? If as a result of the sexual intercourse the woman becomes pregnant is the man deemed responsible and liable for the maintenance of the child? Why is it that during any exchange between a man and a woman where both are incapable of responsible decision making it is the man who is held accountable for what occurs and not the woman?
The worst example of this. Are the cases where an adult woman raped an underage boy. Then once he turned 18, he was hit up for Child Support & ordered to pay the intervening years. F*cking disgusting.
@@biggsydaboss3410 that one case went worldwide proabably while literally in everywhere that happens to girls all the time, thats sad but look at the facts instead of one case
@@apologygirl8513 I'm not just looking at one case though. Thats exactly why I refer to "cases". Also worldwide trends aren't necessarily applicable to our individual cultures. The term "no representative sample" come around mind. Does what happens in the Congo or other 3rd world sh*t holes really matter in respect to what's happening in the US or UK?
That's not a rape culture in the UK or the west at large. That's a rape culture amongst Islam and a phobiaphobic police that doesn't want to appear racist.
@@thelongstory6395 Umm yeah, that's kinda what I was alluding to in my comment. I find it almost amusing that the same people who harp on about a supposed 'rape culture' on college campuses invariably disregards the systematic gang rape of underage gris all across Britain. I should probably have been more explicit.
@@benjamin4894 I haven't heard anyone disregarding anything. People just talk about what they know about. If you know about some crimes being committed maybe you should talk about it. People who have actually been raped have lots of empathy for each other. It is not a competition.
@@HisWordisLife4U What an utterly ridiculous thing to say? Particularly as the constabulary, every level of government and their friends in the established media actively 'disregarded' all the claims made by victims nation-wide. And then of course they declined to release the findings after launching a lengthy taxpayer funded enquiry into the whole scandal.
@@benjamin4894 How utterly ridiculous saying what I said was ridiculous. You are ridiculous. Are you on the right thread? Just checking cause your reply makes no sense whatsoever.
cant believe all the positive comments on here. im a woman and the way he speaks about rape does not show real sensitivity to its heinousness. at 5:00 he demonstrates one point of view as absurd and ridiculous and the other to be only slightly conservative. he then goes on to give an enourmous benefit of the doubt to those writing an account of a crime of which they have been accused, and trusting, naively that the accused really had no idea they were raping someone. most if not all adult knows what rape is and that sex must be consensual or it can fuck peoples heads up for life. consent was either given or it wasn’t, you cannot insert interpretative consent on one side of the story. if the account matches and neither include consent, it is clear only one party was proactive in the sexual intercourse.
I think some people go on about the 3% stat because a good amount of cases which could have been taken forward weren't, so no charges brought. In my case the perpetrator admitted in an voluntary interview to coercive rape ,I was then told this was a legal grey area so the case wouldn't be taken forward. These kind of problems in the system infuriate people. How is someone saying "have sex with me or I'll hurt you " or "have sex with me or I'll hurt myself " a grey area ? Even if consent is given during these situations it isn't concent if there are threats of violence if consent isn't given. The good phrase of " yes doesn't mean shit if you can't so no " sums it up.
The idea that having sex by raping someone is nothing to do with sex is up there with no biological difference between men and women. I could understand that the excitement could come from domination or revenge or doing something forbidden, but can't see how it can't be sexual. The number of straight men who rape other straight men in order to be violent to them doesn't seem to be very high... The driver for rape is surely primarily lust, but I'm probably not supposed to say that, it's probably not very PC.
and what is the difference on the outside exactly? People in charge not wanting to be bothered to take a report, people in authority looking the other way and perpetrators getting away with it, sounds the same to me.
@Dusk Hollow What do you mean "called on it"? What is wrong with calling something what it is? Rape culture means: rape is tolerated, minimized, people cover it up, look the other way and discourage or block others from reporting it and when it is brought to light belittle, berate and blame the victims. All designed to keep victims quiet so the crime keeps growing without any accountability. Why are you so worried there is a definition?
@Dusk Hollow What I know is rape culture exists out of prisons, that is what matters. That is what we are discussing. What statistics do you have about rape and where do you get them?
@Dusk HollowWhere do you get your stats ? I am not a fool or a feminist. It doesn't matter where the term came from. It matters that it is happening and needs to stop. Why don'y you focus on that?
I’m a psychotherapist in the US. The year after Neil Gorsuch was appointed to the Supreme Court, I had 7 women and 1 man come forward with rape allegations. Of the 7 women, all but 2 eventually - through their exploration of the circumstances and their experience - recanted the allegation as something like “more complicated than rape,” or “I think I had some part in ending up in bed with him,” etc. This is NOT to discount actual rape accounts, but to demonstrate how much perception, memory, and other aspects (e.g. social) play a role. I have, over the years, had a number of men report being sexually assaulted (usually when they were extremely drunk) or being pressured into sex. Not one (that I know of) has ever reported.
Rape can be both a sexual act and a violent act. It is always violent by design, but just imagine that not all or maybe even most rape is about some domination fantasy but maybe a sociopath or someone with low impulse control and inflated ego who's really horny using violence to get sex from someone they find attractive/is isolated and vulnerable and thus easy prey. It's like saying all home invasion is about power, the theft of property is just a side effect and not the motivation for the act, ever. I thought, based on the title of the video, that the topic of false allegations would be examined as well. But hearing this guys perspectives I am not surprised that it was crickets on that subject.
Yes, the PC notion that rapes isn't about sex has been if not refuted, then at least seriously challenged by the book "The Natural History of Rape." From an evolutionary perspective, for a minority of men, rape is in essence a reproductive strategy. Not consciously of course, but as a means of access to women. For the majority, violence doesn't pay as it tends to be too costly. But for some marginalized men who few women find attractive, rape might be a rational strategy from the point of view of survival of your (or having) offspring, and probably evolved for this reason. I also don't understand conceptually why sex cannot be violent. Is this just wishful thinking?
Well, this wasn't intellectually honest. Firstly, he didn't defined what he means as rape culture. There is data that proves connection between porn consumption and violence. Even more, there is data showing connection between music and violence. Furthermore, MET and Ministry of Justice fights grime and drill because they supposed effect on young people in London. Secondly, when it's useful he portrays feminism as a unity when he needs, he can differentiate between schools. Thirdly, man on man rape is not a contra point to second wave/rad feminism. Moreover, it's a bit contradictory to claim how ridiculous were feminists ( yeah, without the context...) to claim that sex is rapey per se and than point how long English law didn't recognise marital rape.
I also greatly appreciate this talk. I came in thinking I’d be triggered by a man talking about rape...but no, I greatly appreciate Luke Gitto’s perspective. My disagreement though is that “rape” is defined by a male perspective. Sorry, I know I sound like an identity-politics person-I’m not-I generally appreciate most men. But *generally speaking* I think a man and woman’s approach to sex is different and women’s voices on the subject have been poo-pooed and ignored. Rape is defined as an act of violence. But there is no word or category to describe a sexual violation
(I hit post before I finished typing) I was interested in my looks when I was younger, like a lot of women out there. I never did that to attract sexual attention, I was merely exploring what I can do with my own body/looks/identity. I was trying to attract myself and feel good about myself, and sorry but it’s so stupid that men always think this is about them! Also, I have clearly told people no, I’ve clearly told them what I want and expect, and that has also been violated. Sometimes I’m nice to men (and women and people in general) because it feels good to be nice, not because I’m flirting, not because I’m attracted to you, and not because I want to have sex with you. My boyfriend said to me “we’ll if you’re attracted to someone that means you want to have sex with them.” And I said “just because you want a car, and just after a car, does that actually mean you’re REALLY going to buy the car? I’m satisfied with admiring the car from a distance.” And further, if you can afford the car (and this metaphor is getting ridiculous, but if the car tells you no), does that mean you’re going to steal the car? I think so many women are broken by men’s violations. The only word they have to describe the emotional turmoil, which does have a significant, negative impact on a woman’s life, is the word “rape.” There is no legal recourse to address this violation. Men also don’t view this violation as a big deal. I do believe there is a bias here. The “pushback” from the interviewers was weak, I would’ve asked very different, hard questions as a woman.
But overall I appreciate this whole topic. All the points were interesting and very valid. This is a great stepping stone to understand big misunderstandings that surround rape/abuse/violence.
@@karariekstins366 Hi Kara. I understand what you mean when you say that a man's and a woman's (average) approach to sex is different. One thing that the feminist movement has tried to foster is the perceived socially "polite" assumption that men and women are innately generally the same and that sexually disparate behaviour are predominantly/entirely down to socialisation. I think that just as there can be such a thing as "rigid gender roles and norms" there is also a thing as "rigid gender neutrality" where people are forced to adhere to norms that assume the common feminist notion. When actually to have the optimal social interaction would be to accept and being able to work with sexually differentiated individuals (typically men and women). This doesn't mean men and women are binary in terms of gender and sex. That men are all generally one thing and women all generally another. But they are bimodal - the distribution of a particular trait/characteristic across the human population if divided by sex won't necessarily align with it each other. They would skew in different directions. Luke says (from 7:48 to that not only do people embroiled in such court cases not only do they have a fundamentally different account of what takes place, they have a fundamentally different understanding of how they should interpret the events that took place within the account. So two people can come to a case with the same factual understanding of what occurred, but different understandings of how to interpret it. Luke says that dynamic needs to be taken seriously. I do wonder that one of the perhaps unintended side effects of the notion that men and women are innately the same and only socialisation makes us different is that where young people internalise that they start to approach sexual situations with the understanding that the other person is on the same page as them when they're not. It's because in their mind being progressive means that they do treat the person they're engaging in intimate relations with as an equal not just in worth, but general attributes and mental predilections and so miss how they might interpret a situation differently. Men advance on a woman in a way that they assume would be treating her like an equal and thus be a "liberating" act for her - when it is not in reality what woman are necessarily entirely comfortable with or desire. One feminist, Louise Perry, has also discussed the idea that part of the confusion over what might not be consensual has come from some feminists trying to expand the notion of what is consensual to other sexual behaviour that while is perceptibly unethical isn't consensual as liberal sex-positive feminism had decreed that the only arbiter of whether a sex act was moral was whether it was "consensual". She was responding to a feminist who had posted a twitter threat stating that if a man sleeps with a woman when she's under the impression that it's means the start of a relationship, but really he doesn't want that, that qualified as rape. Perry's response was the reason that appears unethical isn't because it's necessarily unconsensual, it's just it's devious - and actually a sexual morality (and a feminist sexual morality that accomodates male/female differences) needs to encompass more than just a notion of consent (which in of itself decides what is criminal or not). As for the discussion point in hand she concluded with a sentence along the lines of "don't send fuckboys to jail, just stop having sex with them". (I tried to find the twitter threads, but I couldn't sorry). That's a bit of a mix of my thoughts on the gender politics of it. I hope it gives you some ideas and you can come up with an interesting response to it.
@@karariekstins366 Do you think much of liberal sex-positive feminism captures much of what women want in regards to attitudes towards sex and women? Or do you think there's some blind-spots with the movement.
This "prevalence of retrograde attitude" sentence by Like Gittos left me in doubt. Isn't accepting to take a drink at the other's appartment at 2 in the morning after a party a sign of consent ? of course it is. Everybody knows it. It's not retrograde, it's human nature.
@@Macheako There are several stories were 20 something teachers have had sex with their 15 and 16 year old students. These women were locked up. Even though most 16 boys would love to do this, if you reversed it and had a 25 male teacher having sex with a 15 year old female student it is very clear that something wrong is going on.
@Ordinary Sessel he said Teenage Boys....do you not know the meaning of TEENager, bruv? I wouldn't be happy if my 13 year old boy had sex with a 30 year old woman, but If I'm being honest I'm not about to have him get taught by a physically arousing woman at his horniest age....
In my line of work (in education) I've had to investigate 3 cases of serious sexual assault....in all 3 cases incontrovertible evidence emerged that the woman was lying and had manipulated the situation for her own personal gain (one for revenge, one for embarrassment, one to get herself out of trouble)
@@therealmrfishpaste look it up dumbshit, its not false your an "educator" not an investigator. also you strike me as the teacher who sexually harrases his students LMAO
Pretty sure the "3% conviction rate" is not a myth because it's not simply referring to rape accusations taken to the level of the courts of justice etc, but include rapes that are not "officially" reported, or that might be reported but the CPS doesn't allow them to go further due to lack of evidence. The sexualisation of children, in particular, but also of Women, in advertising and in pornography magazines etc is another big indicator of our culture being a rape culture. The lack of resources to properly investigate claims or even the psychology of victims and perpertrators, is another. The fact that 1:4 Females and 1:5 Males will experience traumatic sexual assault and/or rape in their lifetimes is yet another indicator. I could go on. I just wanted to make the point that we can't deny rape culture when measured by convictions.
Caroline Smyth did... did you not listen to anything he said? Rape is a violent crime, not a sex crime. I’m sure you didn’t study law but I did and the distinction between types of crime is extremely important. Also... what has the sexualisation of children got to do with a legally defined non-sexual crime? Curious.
@@Papa1Smurf1Why is it important to make that distinction? Also, where did i state that rape is a sex crime? And the sexualization of children is extremely relevant because it makes them easier to meet up with on these sites, plagued by thousands of adult men, and to rape.
I would have thought the 3% figure refers to cases that have gone fully through the system; I'm not sure what you mean by “rapes not officially reported”. And cases that the CPS do not send forward for lack of evidence shouldn't be included at all, because there simply was not, in those cases, sufficient evidence to confirm a rape had actually taken place. I can't say anything about the sexualisation of children, because, apart from reports of the odd - and in my experience - rare, reporting of individual cases, I have seen no evidence for it. And the “sexualisation” of women in advertising and pornography, is, surely, a “consulting adult” thing, which can only happen with their consent. I also don't agree that the authorities lack resources. Investigating sexual assault is now one of the main things the police do, starving resources from other crimes, such as burglary, which is now routinely not investigated - so I've read. And the figures you give have long been debunked, because they were never based on fact. Koss got similar figures by manipulating the evidence. One notorious way in which she did it was to ask university students whether they had ever had sex while being drunk. Those that sad “yes”, she listed as rape victims. In a more recent investigation, to reassure women's groups, the Australian Human Rights Commission spent a million dollars on a survey intended to uncover evidence of a rape culture. The response was: However, the survey found that only tiny numbers experienced sexual assault (an average of 0.8 percent over each of the two years studied), even when a broad definition of sexual assault was applied that included touching by a stranger on public transport to campus. The main finding was low-grade sexual harassment (mainly unwanted staring) which the universities then promoted as alarming levels of “sexual violence.” So there is no evidence of a rape culture. Rape occurs, and it is horrible, and, when backed by evidence, it is dealt with. Except, of course, when it is females raping (forcing sex on) males (and, no, all males will not enjoy being raped by females, even if they are not gay). In the latter case, it is taken much less seriously, and the law was changed by feminists in the last Labour government to allow female rapists to get off relatively lightly.
@@wisemanner5012 all i can say is your response highlights your (and others) ignorance regards to "Rape Culture"... Rape Culture soil is fertile... and i can see why feminists bang on about "The Patriarchy"... Just because there is not enough evidence, does not mean rape didnt occur. I've been raped many times. The only time i had courage enough, and evidence enough to go through the courts, it was me on trial and he got away with it. He went on to rape others. Statistics mean NOTHING when compared to actual experience. I am not alone regarding these kinds of experiences. Put simply, you are wrong.
@@carolinesmyth127 You were obviously very unlucky. All I can say, regarding personal experience, is that none of the females I have been involved with in my adult life has ever been raped.
@AJ17 How many of them were false, how many plead to a lesser charge, how many of them couldn't be processed due to laws surrounding the gathering of evidence, how many of those claims were made by a third party but was found out later to be completely innocent? A similar example, my partner & I were having a right old ding dong (argument). My daughter said "Stop shouting at my mummy". The neighbours thought she said "Stop hitting my mummy". Anyway the argument ended, my then partner went out shopping, the police came around, basically insinuated that I killed her, because she wasn't there. I got her on the phone to speak to the police, she then had to drop her shopping, come home with ID to prove I hadn't killed her. There was no previous history of any kind of DV, nor had the police ever been called out. See things like this happen. They get labelled as "rape claims" even though nothing untoward had been going on. The guy in the interview went over such numbers & more. Basically of those who go to trial for rape, get convicted at 78%. The rest don't, either because they were not guilty or the charges were reduced.
@AJ17 Yikes that is awful. Add to that most rape victims don't report the crime and why? because we live in a rape culture where it is tolerated. The US, UK and Canada are similar.
What do you think happens if someone is told they are "responsible" for a situation, but if that situation ever occurs they are never to "blame" for it? Homeowner, you are responsible to not douse your entire house in gasoline and then play with matches. BUT if your house ever catches fire... somehow... you are never to BLAME for it.
Interesting video. Shame there isn't a woman on the panel, such a thing would dismiss the entire interview for some people who may disagree with the premise.
@Ordinary Sessel Thanks for your reply. My point exactly. They show no understanding that false allegations exist, let alone begin to apprehend the damage they do. I expected better of these tow content creators. Yes you can guess, I was accused. My wife was harming our young daughters. My mother died when she heard what her son was accused of. I lost my family integrity, my house, my health, my career, my confidence in the authorities and those around me and lots more. Never dared to integrate again myself - but I did, prove my innocence, manage to bring the daughters to safety, and raise them myself. And of course the liars were not even told off. Yet note these guys don't begin to see that false allegations must be as bad as RAPE. Also in fact the biggest victims in this have been my daughters who were raised in poverty, because the court in its wisdom ordered me out of work. So putting aside what I have been through, the ignorant ones don't even recognise those female real victims of child abuse and "violence towards women".
@Marshal Anderson I am not in any way trivialising the effect of real rape on a woman, just arguing that there is another side which to my experience is completely trivialised and except for an occasional anomaly completely ignored. If we are to have justice then I say Justice for everyone. Have no doubt, if my daughters were raped, I would take that just as seriously as if a son was falsely accused.
@Marshal Anderson I will add that if they did as you claim, it was brief and easily missed - while as is usual, the rape concerns were recycled continuously through the item - Now that is not balance. Also I notice that people feel quite at ease questioning and doubting male false accusation victims - why is that? Would they dare doubt and question a rape claimant? yet the damage has to be similar. For example I have heard the claim that rape victims lose confidence and trust socially... well so do we. We don't know what is going on in the heads of people of either sex around us. That is because males are conditioned to "white-knight for women" without question - that is how me and my kids have faced down the barrel of a gun. Now I tell you that is traumatic in the extreme and left me with having to settle the terrified children, both are girls, and both carry the scars of the past and false allegations. If you have not been falsely accused yourself yet, (nobody is immune), try to imagine how it would be for you if you were falsely accused. Firstly all normality evaporates. You are automatically guilty and people with agencies collaborate to do you harm. Assistance are denied you , so do not imagine you can know what is being cooked up or how to respond to it. And when you can prove a flaw in their story, they move the goal-posts. This makes legal expensive an keeps you and you team having to start over from scratch. I can't see how you have any idea either if you have not been through it. I am one of the few who came through better than most and proven innocent - the court agreed and I raised the girls. Few falsely accused are so lucky. I know of many other cases, but one stands out. The same social-workers handled the family of a daughter's friend. Child protection arranged what they call an "Evidential interview". They bullied their daughter until she said what they wanted, just to get out of the room. Dad went to jail, and is on the register. That girl and my daughter caught up in the park. She lamented to my daughter that her dad had gone to jail and he was innocent of what they accused ( molesting that daughter). It screwed her head with guilt and screwed dad also - he came out a changed and very unpleasant man.- which was a complete personality transplant. I related this small sample to give you even the ghost of the horror. False allegations also cost lives - my mum died upon hearing of ours and other males commit suicide. Its as if it does not matter - we don't matter and neither will you if you get accused. I was and am completely stainless - innocent, and you might be also. Innocence is no protection.
Dressing provocatively, getting drunk, and/or going to a guy's home don't mean you deserve to get raped. However they do contribute to the miscommunication that you want to have sex, and ambiguity of if you said "yes" or "no" behind a closed door. You are also responsible for your personal safety. Relying on the better angels of others to protect you when drunk or otherwise vulnerable is stupid. It doesn't make you less of a victim, but making more responsible decisions might make you NOT a victim.
Drunk and incapacitated mean two different things. Someone slurring their words and barely conscious is not the same as someone whos simply drunk. There are alot of women in this community that want to get drunk and get sexual while they're drunk. Whereas the are also men who prey on stumbling women Please tell me why we have to teach women and young girls "how to not get raped." Why cant we just teach others not to rape.
@@apologygirl8513 we do teach people to not rape. We also teach people to not murder or steal. Some people do bad things even though they're told not to. Do you take precautions for your physical safety? Do you protect your financial info or have an alarm on your house? We can say both "X is wrong" and "protect yourself against X". "Teach people not to rape" also totally bypasses the fact that "rape" is now a lot of grey area of drunk miscommunication. If a woman got drunk, handed a dude her purse of cash, and said "you'd look good in a suit" and that dude went and bought himself a suit, is that theft? Maybe, but if she didnt mean for him to buy a suit it sure would be dumb. But we pretend that women have more responsibility to be careful with their purse than with their bodies.
@@sharaguzzetta9504 id rather loose my purse then get raped and have to live with that burden for the rest of my life im sure any woman would agree or man because its almost, you AS a man are forgetting you could get raped too. my bestfriend was raped, she was known in the group for having sex. her and this boy were about to she told him she wasn't in the mood anymore and wanted to watch a movie or get dinner instead. he said "ok" as any normal good person would. she said she felt safe then he turned around and pinned her down and said terrible dehumanizing things , she told me it felt like something from a horror movie. she had bruises on her wrists. she begged her mom not to report it. she hasent had sex in 5 years, not even with her fiancee. people like you would yell in her face and tell her its her fault for "being in a dangerous situation." instead of arguing with the victim try to help them
@@apologygirl8513 please take a breath and don't attribute words I didn't say. My purse analogy was to demonstrate that sex can and does fall into areas that can be due to tragic misunderstandings. Women often send mixed messages. I have told my own teenage daughter that if she is asked on a date she doesn't want to go on she needs to communicate kindly but unambiguously. If he doesn't accept "no" she can then be less kind, but her response must include "No, I don't want to go on a date with you." With regard to forced intercourse where a woman's wishes are unambiguous: there is responsibility all people need to take for their own safety so they are not in a position to be overpowered, not because it is okay if they are victimized, but because evil exists in the world. Pretending otherwise is total insanity. And for clarification, I'm not a dude. I have definitely made decisions like your friend where I was at the mercy of men I didn't know as well as I should have. Thankfully I wasn't a victim, but I admit it is but for the grace of God. However there have been a lot of situations I consciously didn't put myself in because it would have been dangerous. My safety is my responsibility. Once again, it is not inconsistent to say both that "perpetrators are wrong and should be punished" and "we all have responsibility for our personal safety."
@@sharaguzzetta9504 a mentality of "im not going to carry a gun or pepper spray or take the safer way out of something because that shouldn't happen just because im a girl" is wrong, it shouldn't happen but sadly it does so everyone needs to take precautions. everyone's responsible for making sure they are safe. but if that does happen people shouldn't get mad at them ive seen that happen a lot. i know a lot of girls who are shy and cant say no to anything so they let it happen, even if they could have said no, people say thats not rape but i disagree. ive been told as a woman im equal to men and in more power sexually and that is just wrong but yes i dont think just because your a girl doesnt mean you should be careless, the person who assaulted you will use that against you. and this portrays women as weak and careless and not a victim its not a good look.
I'm sorry guys, I know it's a dark subject but I have to share this valuable piece of information: according to the automatic English subtitles Konstantin's full name is Konstantin KITTEN. Long live the AI!
I'm ecstatic you asked such a great question! It's been proven rape allegations made to police or campus authority are estimated to be false approximately 2% to 10% of the time.
@@apologygirl8513 I think the key word here is estimated. In cases that generally come down to "He said, she said" it would be very difficult to get an accurate figure. Having said that, in the cases which are found to be false & therefor the young woman has lied, I wonder what punishment she faces. Would it be the same as the man would have faced had he been found guilty, such as getting kicked out of school or facing a possible prison sentence? I rather think not.
@@apologygirl8513 that statistic represents those allegations has been proven to be false but it does not mean the majority of accusations are true as there is a grey area.
@@demonshelby1311 lie detectors arent always accurate... I don't know why the rapists previous behaviours arent brought into the equation. One of the men who raped me had raped before and raped again after he was aquitted.
@@carolinesmyth127 I'm sorry to hear that. I thought it had been changed so that if a crime of similarity happened before it was read out in court. Of paedophiles at least. Stay well x
@@demonshelby1311 Thanks for your compassion... I was an adult when he raped me... he was in court in 2005 and it certainly didn't apply then... Hope that's true about Child Rapists. Atleast something's going in the right direction.
The definition of rape is being broadened is a good thing ?! NO, its not as long as women can't legally rape a man its sure as hell is not. The only broadening that needs to happen is that envelopment is also rape. But i already see this guy is as gynocentric as it gets.
"can't legally rape a man" did you mean to write: cannot illegally rape a man? but yeah, i dont know a western world country where its still legal for a woman to rape? so dont know what you were referencing there.
@@Redmanticore ye mistype should be : as long as women legally cant rape a man.. It mean that the law dos not recognizes a rape of lets say a boy by a women the highest conviction she would get is sexual assault.
it's not a helpful concept and actually trivializes sexual assault by applying the charge too broadly. While that may seem a good way to raise 'awareness', it actually results in making forcible rape and coercion harder to establish and less likely to be punished severely - while increasing scrutiny and pressure on victims. And the whole 'affirmative consent' concept that arises is legally untenable. RAINN has written against the promotion of 'rape culture' advocacy if you're interested in the perspective of a well established org that's dedicated to fighting sexual assault.
I'd only say that if they've been PROVEN liars or untrue (not just if they lose the case - it can be the case you can't prove the guilt, but can't prove the guilt of the complainant either - presumption of innocence goes both ways).
@@zv8291 Are you making an argument for keeping the plaintiff in every court case anonymous, just in case they lose? That’s not how the legal system works. I agree with Tobias, though. Proven liars should be outed and charged with wasting police time. False accusations cause untold damage.
Interesting point. In the roman empire, as far as I understand so take everything with many grains of salt, concubines referred more or less to female non-married lovers. Rape laws didn't apply to them or wives or prostitutes kinda for the reason that Luke gave at the end that it's really difficult to count what intimate things partners do as what would in theory be the same thing as what the law states (or in the case of prostitutes that it's kinda hard to prove that you were raped if you're always being payed for sex, which seems to be why promiscuous women were later counted by law as prostitutes). The romans dealt with the issue by counting lovers and wives as having already consented to sex by consenting to the relationship itself. Maybe it was the reason why that existed in common law too
@@zv8291 I say why a thing existed and suggested that it may have also been the reason why things that don't make sense to us now may have been practiced back then. Suddenly I'm advocating it and adding some sort of military aspect to it?
Was curious that malicious false accusations made by now anonymous women were not discussed. There are many cases where women have made false accusations against men and these have been shown to be so in courts of law. Yet the penalty for trying to jail a man for 10 years, even when the evidence has shown to be untrue, is nothing...Its has become a free, (anonymous), hit for women. A female weapon has always been the male reputation. Not all women are lovely, fair minded angels alas.
*"Academic Feminism"* is an oxymoron. Wonderful insightful talk, lads. The outrage mobs will never get to the end of a video like this. (Yet endorse grooming gangs.)
Thank you, Luke for speaking on this topic so thoroughly and intelligently. It helps rape victims tremendously. Many forget that most women don't "ask for it" because of what they wear. I know someone who had the COVID virus, was sniffling uncontrollably & wore a fat puffy jacket the night she was raped in her own home. Her drink was spiked & it then paralyzed her, and she was raped violently. The most shocking but not surprising fact was that it was an old friend who raped her. She reported him to the police after she recovered, but he was never arrested. Many rapes go unsolved, and victim continue to live in fear of encountering their assailants again.
That was stressful just listening to that ~~ the more you get to know the less you find that you understand~~~ this poor guy has to make so much distinction and definition right off the bat. I lost a telomere or two trying to follow everything... :( So much obfuscation. Politicization of feminism has really made so much so vague. There are so many factors, and one side wants evidence and a proper investigation.
Llove the fact the guest acknowledged the fact that only men can commit rape, and not women, so the UK has a law that actively discriminates on the grounds of sex, and actively turns a blind eye to this blatant hypocrisy. Picture a law being passed that only affected a certain group of people ie. people of colour or race. It would be quite rightly pointed out that this is a breach of human rights and discriminatory in nature and a change to the law would take place.
On the subject of Clothing - there is a point that I think has been glossed over as to why asking women to dress moderately may have a preventative measure. Assume the attitude of a Predator, If you are going out with the intention of either raping or committing sexual assault - there are a myriad of potential victims/targets to choose from. How does a Predator make their selection? For some (Certain Serial Killers were notorious for this) there are certain attributes that they look for, which is crucial in fulfilling whatever desire they have. For most Predators, however, you look for the easiest target - the small, the slight, the alone, the drunk and yes, the provocatively dressed. To that end, when I was a younger Man and went out on the town to pubs, clubs etc. There were, on occasion, ladies whose choice of dress could be described as '3 conveniently placed strips of fabric' - Certainly provocative and certainly eye-catching (and I enjoyed every minute of it) - If we assume to the role of a Predator, then that would be a factor that might sway a decision to go for the person and not the person with multiple layers of clothing in the way. Now, I want to add a caveat here - even if a persons attire is a causal factor in them getting attacked, and even if we then say that it might be an idea for people not to dress/act in a certain way, it in no way diminishes the culpability of the attacker.
@@SOLXXX41 Humans are by nature a highly social, predatory pack animal. We all have that little spark within us, some of us are just more honest about it. As for evidence - I think you can make a fairly solid anthropological argument by looking at various cultures and then comparing attitudes towards sex, clothing, morality and how those intertwine.
@@SOLXXX41 such a case study is unlikely to exist given the biases in both academia in general and specifically in the fields that look into these issues.
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Myths are dangerous. The thing is, people have too much faith in their state and society.
There needs to be a distinction between calling everything part of a rape culture, including porn and all male favored activities, and real issues. You'll have to distance this sort of thing from "patriarchy" whining feminists.
Rape Culture was coined in prison, the only known and genuine Rape Culture, where rape is viewed literally as 'social currency', followed very closely by the military, where rape is viewed as 'a Perk of the Job'.
Feminists have Highjacked and Subverted, as they often do, 'rape culture', as a mere slogan in order to bolster their "personal is political" mission to make society an inhospitable place for males - men and boys.
@@gloriouscontent3538 th-cam.com/video/KDG67KzDUbQ/w-d-xo.html
@@tubebility Rape culture does not just exist in prisons in the US, the biggest problem we have is on our college campuses. Reports to the college are dismissed, downplayed, not investigated properly and the rapist rarely prosecuted. The colleges do not want to pay out a settlement to the victims of a law suit, and they don't want bad press associated with the incident so they don't do anything. There are no consequences, and that creates a rape culture.
I didn't realise at first that this was filmed during the lockdown. You guys don't seem to have been socially distancing in the studio there. Shouldn't you have been doing that interview on Zoom or something?
Well its not a myth if you are a girl in Newcastle, Keighley, Rochdale, Rotherham, Peterborough, Oxford, Aylesbury, Bristol & all the rest.
It's not a myth anywhere. It's not a myth.
I think the cards are stacked against the attractive girls.
The ugly girls are less affected.
Especially if you are a rich ugly and trans woman.
That is the privileged class.
Like when I am attractive, I am getting "sexualy assaulted" (I am so privileged, I can't even get raped) by women.
And I can even grab the women by the puss. And women love it!!
I am glad they are finally cracking down on this nonsense here in the states. It has been going on too long. Women need to stop putting themselves in dangerous situations after drinking. There friends who they came to the party with disperse and victims are left alone to trust a stranger after drinking. I know many women who have been raped after drinking at college parties; it happens all the time and with very little accountability. There is even one frat house I know of that taught their members how to strategically date rape women. They TAUGHT them. Most of the colleges abolished fraternities because of the trouble they caused, but some still remain. There should be a way for young people to socialize safely. And campuses should reiterate safety rules for women frequently and provide support for women who request security walking them across campus or to their cars at night.
@@HisWordisLife4U
Man, if I would be able to claim rape, I think 100 people would be in jail now.
Everytime I would get really drunk, I would wake-up in a strange place, sometimes naked....
A couple times I thought "my ass/balls feel funny, was I just raped by that guy/girl?".
I've never told this to anybody.
I've only promised myself to never drink again.
And all this bullshit that women are scared.
I am terrified, & women are jumping into the cars with the complete strangers!!
I literally had fights with the girlfriends because they would get in a car with a stranger(s).
Look, I am scared that's why I carry a knife & don't even go out drinking.
I only drink at home or with the very good friends & in a place where I can stay overnight.
@@HisWordisLife4U It's literally a crime. Legitimate rape cultures either don't criminalise rape, or at the very least make it all but impossible to prosecute. Be grateful that you don't live in such a place.
If both parties are drunk why does the responsibility fall only on the man to ensure consent
Da, Men are the results.
Or what Affirmative Action in Family Court is.
Very true. It should either be a double conviction or no conviction.
Because muh power dynamics... apparently men are on average bigger and stronger than women. Even though there are no differences between men and women.
The answer is in your question; modern western women are not required to take responsibility for any action they take nor face any consequences. That is why a large percentage of them are god awful and intolerable to be around.
I thought Luke Gittos’ comments were informative and nuanced. And I can not recall when, if ever, I’ve heard a discussion on this topic which generated more light than heat, as this one did. I was not familiar with his work. I’m so pleased you invited him on the show. Well done! I hope you will invite him back to discuss his new human rights book.
Nice to listen to someone talking about the complexities of the topic.
Great interview. The feminist idea that somewhere like Britain has a rape culture has always been absurd. Especially when many of those same feminists would never say that Islam, African or Caribbean cultures were rape cultures. As usual, feminists pick out the least macho, patriarchal and misogynistic culture and charge it with being the worst, whilst protecting or even celebrating those other cultures. For me this reveals a few things about feminism as an ideology. It’s Marxist roots. It has always had a Red post colonial heart, beavering away to undermine the capitalist West and prop up the oppressed. Also in our multiculti present reality, it has become racialised, with the epicentre of rape culture supposedly, not on the meanest streets in minority neighborhoods where murder is highest but in the ivory tower of academia where mostly upper middle class white boys roam menacingly. Luke does an amazing job of collapsing many of the myths feminists have built up around this concept. With one exception.
He does try to rehabilitate the feminist myth that rape has nothing to do with sex.
The people who say rape is not about sex are wrong. They’re correct to say it’s a violent act and about power. But it’s still at its root a sexual act, rooted in the sexual desires of the criminal.
They’re aroused sexually by using violence and fear to sexually violate someone.
That’s still explicitly sexual.
Islam is super feminist, you bigot; you can't objectify women when don't acknowledge them as people to begin with.
British feminists refused to oppose the "grooming" gangs, which targeted white vulnerable working class girls. They enabled the brutalization the girls were subjected to. Some even participated in the coverups. The truth is that the feminist movement is NOT consistently opposed to rape!
@@gloriouscontent3538 You are outright deranged if you think Islam is feminist in the slightest, let alone super feminist and not amount of screaming bigot would suffice at the extremely misogynistic nature of Islam. Hell, it doesn't even tell their women what their reward would be in their heaven. Go figure
@@tomsea6017 I know this is an old comment but I think the post you are quoting was sarcasm.
This is the most comprehensive, well informed discussion of the topic I've ever seen.
The only world worth living in, is one where we can all talk about a topic freely, in order to understand properly.
i just got perma banned from reddit for saying: modern women are not oppressed they are spoiled brats. haha
There are a lot of men charged with rape that for whatever reason the case is dropped before it comes to court. By that time the accused name is out there and the stigma of being accused is always going to be there and can hinder the accuseds future career.
It was a better idea to keep both names confidential until after the trial. If the victims name was always kept confidential, they would be more likely to come forward. And if a man is falsely accused, he should not be punished.
hiring people care much more about rumors of stealing from companies and spying for other companies than about rumours of rape. practically all the publicly accused celebrities few years ago are now back working.
@@Redmanticore It might be because they owned the companies...LOL. When you are arrested here in the states, it is a public record. On a job application you are asked if you have been arrested which may not have anything to do with a conviction. Supposedly we are living in a society where we are innocent until proven guilty but people are weeded out for jobs based solely on whether or not they were arrested. Maybe arrest records should not be public for any crime. I could see why they may be useful to the police. I wonder what the statistics are on women falsely accusing men of rape and taking it to the police.
The crime survey in Wales where they stopped asking women if they thought it was rape because they were both drunk seems like a power play to me by the feminist who are pushing this agenda that all men a potential rapist. If you truly believe that having consensual drunken sex with your wife or husband is rape then the concept of rape is about power is destroyed. Clearly, two drunks who love or like each other can decide to have sex while drunk. It is possible that neither will remember it the next day, but calling that rape is foolish at best and political opportunism at worst.
"It is possible that neither will remember it the next day, but calling that.."
if you cannot remember it, how can you know exactly what happened? contracts are invalid if made while intoxicated, because cannot give consent. how could consent on sex be any different?
@@Redmanticore Using that logic, if you can't remember, how can one person say the other raped them? You can't. In addition, drunk people have been mutually agreeing to have sex with each other since alcohol was invented. All of a sudden now, adults are incapable of deciding because they are drunk? It doesn't make any sense.
Being drunk does not relieve you of your responsibilities. If it did, neither person involved in the sex act would be responsible for their actions.
If you are drunk and you drive car, get in a fight, or sleep through the next day's exam, you are still responsible for your actions. The laws and societal rules reflect this.
Simple: rape is an act of violence, sex is not rape.
Yes, but you anything done to you against your will is violence.
@@kdemetter The upstairs neighbours chatting with each other at a reasonable volume and bothering me through paper thin floors while I'm trying to sleep is an act of violence? ;-)
I dont know if violence is needed for it to be deemed rape. Lets say a guy wakes up and discovers to his shock that a random girl is sucking him of or mounted him. Obviously no violence has been used in this s scenario. There was no explicit not implicit consent. Therefore it should be labeled as rape.
@@suppaduppa it's not rape, at least not in the UK because in the UK rape requires that the victim is penetrated.
@@Paul-sj5db Some also recognize 'forced to penetrate' as rape. The reason it's so complicated and difficult to create laws for is because people don't respect each other's boundaries in general and any overstep of boundaries is not the same as every other.
Go ask prison officers how rapists get treated by other prisoners in jail. Even amongst some of the most violent, disruptive people utterly despise them.
Rapist have no respect no were no matter what culture city system or
Society they will be despised no matter were they go
...so what if the court failed and innocent man gets to the jail? ...
Then that sad and the person who falsely claim should go to jail
@@czaralexander5156 ... yea, but im talking about his treatment in jail as convict [tho he's not guilty]...
@@AkelasanAK rape allegations made to police or campus authority are estimated to be false approximately 2% to 10% of the time.
that would suck, good thing it happens extremely rarely!
I don't know if the law in Pennsylvania has changed or not, but I had been appalled to learn that in order to classify as rape, the assailant had to use or threaten force against the victim. Thus, if a man broke into a woman's house and threatened to shoot her if she didn't submit, it was rape, but if he threatened to shoot her child if she didn't submit, it wasn't rape. I think nearly any mother who ever lived would be far more likely to submit to protect her child than to protect herself! Why would there be this loophole?!
This dude is smart. I like how he totally dodged you trying to talk about "the way women dress" and took the conversation in a direction that's actually productive.
Congratulations on this. You can call yourself investigative journalists now. Very impressed by Luke. His thoughtfull informedness is top notch.
“Desperate to get results” sounds pretty horrific to be frank.
Thoroughly interesting and nuanced interview great job guys.
In addition to a fascinating discussion with an informative guest, your advertisements were amazing. I don't think I've ever said that before.
This is one of your most interesting interviews.
college girls are being brainwashed into believing they are victims. so reporting a million false rapes. doubt all women!
"specialist officers desperate to get results" sound as bad as "officers with retrograde attitudes"
Perfectly fair argument here, though I really wouldn't imagine violent pornography and rape aren't connected. Rapists surely don't watch 'normal' porn. And why should something as nasty as rape be depicted for such purposes? That's clearly a dangerous connection for people to make.
Apparently statistics show that violent pornography - pornography where women may be "raped" - is actually disproportionately watched by women.
Some women seem to get off on that stuff.
I've heard one explanation given is that the reason some women watch that stuff (and up to 30% of women report rape fantasies) is that it's not being raped itself that has appeal to them per se, but it's the notion of having someone else take control.
I don't know what you'd think.
@@tobiasolds1550 ' find that a little difficult to believe although I've heard it. I was mobbed on a news article which proposed a 'ban' on it years ago and none of the responders seemed to be female on that occasion.
@@mzmoth I think statistics are collected by those who actually visit the porn websites in question. Could just be the intra-sexual variation in women - you can't stand the idea of violent porn, but other women get off to that.
Do you think the average women, even if she's into it, will admit as much? Even to close friends?
The general taboo around pornography is as such that it's not likely the amount of interest, particularly in women, would accurately be broadcast to the wider culture.
I have the general sense that women commonly have an innate reticence to discuss what really turns them on as well.
@@tobiasolds1550 I don't know what to make of those stats but my understanding is that they can vary pretty wildly from source to source? I'd still doubt that's proof women get off on rape. I have heard this from other women although I doubt anyone who genuinely thinks so knows what it's like to be smacked about by someone twice their size. I thought they were probably just as eager to please as the women who pretend they have a vaginal Gspot.
@@mzmoth Perhaps. My argument is not so much they get off on rape, but dominance and control (which I think can have healthy and unhealthy outlets).
If you think they're eager to please, I would find it amenable to my views that women also would get off "pleasuring" their partners in whatever way they thought.
Great to hear a serious and yet an interesting and nuanced discussion without the need to constantly mention "left-wing".."right-wing".."politics". Good job guys :)
its just so weird to see someone think any woman or person would randomly want to convict someone of rape if they didnt do it. it doesnt undo the rape or ‘not rape’
years ago, a newspaper columnist made a perfect comment: "Just because she wore a tight halter top and tight shorts and spent the evening drinking and leaning provocatively over the pool table (in other words, she was truly "looking for it") that doesn't mean she was looking for it from YOU!"
Yes, that means that you definitely have permission to take someone home when drunk and do whatever you want to them. You absolute ghoul.
Consent
taking away anonymity from victims will be a huge deterrent for victims to report
This dudebro lives on a completely different planet. It's scary to think that he's a lawyer.
Rape is common as muck and everyone knows it
I don't know it. In fact, none of the women I have been acquainted with in my adult life have ever been raped. Strange. Of course, the answer is feminists don't know it either. They just "feel" it, which is something totally different. Knowing something needs to be based on fact; feeling something can be the product of a febrile deluded mind. They want it to be the case so that they can blame males for the difficulties they experience in life, instead of blaming themselves, as most males do, and finding their own solutions.
What an incredibly articulate man, describing with great clarity a hugely difficult issue.
intelligence and articulation are no match for the crazy leftists mental illness
I know so many women who have been raped/abused. All are filled with shame/secrecy. Never ONE prosecution. Just my life experience.
Respectfully, I do not believe those women you are talking about.
@@roby72s me too bro
How many of them went to the police, how many of them completed a rape kit, how many actually had evidence presented in front of a jury?
What are the chances you're talking out of your backside or at the very leat missing a metric tonne of details that might shed some light?
@@biggsydaboss3410 very true and obvious
Which is why these women left it alone, moved on with dignity. The responses from men explains it. Not the men I know, thank God, who are decent.
This is an excellent discussion. This guy is speaking in a very intelligent, articulate, thoughtful, well informed and empathetic way about a very complex and difficult topic. Top quality guest and discussion.
Rape culture essentially boils down to the lack of respect for another's boundaries.
This is a controversial subject... I applaud Triggernometry for airing this, they've clearly got a big old pair o' balls.
An interview with Diana Davison who runs the Lighthouse Project would add a further dimension to this subject. The Lighthouse Project offers support to men wrongly accused of sexual-assault and rape. Diana has her own YT channel.
It is a rape culture when more that half the women you know have experienced sexual assault in some degree and have never reported it, or the majority of your family members have experienced it and never reported it. People who deny rape culture in this country are the ones who do not have real intimate relationships with their friends and loved ones. If you want to know if America has a rape culture, do a social experiment and ask your friends and family ( if they feel comfortable enough with you) if they have experienced sexual assault in any degree and tally the number of yes and the number of them who have not reported it.
Your personal experiences do not indicate a “rape culture” overall. Anecdotes and emotionalism are not evidence and cannot be used to make sweeping judgements about society as a whole.
@@AnonymousC-lm6tc The problem is how do you define assault. Historically you needed clear physical evidence of violence. Then they expanded it with drugged which makes sense but in time the expansion started to get too broad. To the point it now means 'that sex wasn't great'. The problem is criminalising situations in which no one was at fault and indoctrinating people into assuming if your encounter wasn't the best ever then it was r ape. There's a difference between 'I got a headache from last night' and r ape. But for them they're one and the same.
@@florinivan6907how many women have been randomly groped by a man they weren't even romantically involved with? Maybe even by a complete stranger. Is that not sexual assault?
This dudebro is like 'I got mine' when checking his male privilege.
i get his point about removing all adiminity in the court case but i wonder what he thinks when it comes to media interaction? they should limit what the media can report until the case is concluded things like names or other things that could reveal identity.
The word he used is Anonymity.
I do wonder if it would be beneficial to all accused to remain anonymous until they are convicted. Think of how the murder cases in Arizona and Florida get played up by the media because they are allowed to be in the courtroom. Then if there is a mistrial the potential jury pool has been sullied inexplicably. I would like to hear the argument of publishing mugshots before conviction; is it mainly just supposed to be a deterrent to crime?
Women who make false allegations should get the same sentence as what would have been given to the defendant.
They should be convicted of perjury or lying under oath; isn't that already a crime?
@@HisWordisLife4U There is perjury and wasting police time. Neither are given as heavy a sentence as 10 years as you might get with a rape conviction. It is rare they get used when it comes to rape allegations. Also, they are actually crimes against the state not the individual who has suffered as a consequence of the lies. There have been unsuccessful attempts for False Allegations to be made a crime, but the political will has never been there.
@@jameswilliamsgb Maybe there should be reform to what UK used to do and that is keeping all parties confidential until after someone is convicted. I thought there was a minimum amount of evidence needed for anything to go to court. I was also under the impression that physical evidence was necessary for a rape conviction without witnesses. Women who have been raped often don't want to run right over to the ER and have someone roaming about in the places they were just violated and often hurt by a male physician for obvious reasons, so physical evidence is not usually gathered. Maybe if they sent a female nurse to someone's home to gather the evidence, it might increase the participation. College campuses are involved in the investigations for some reason if a rape happens on their campus. They should have nothing to do with it. I think lying to the police is also a crime. A lot to consider. One thing is for sure, we need reform in this area.
My college psych teacher told me that longer jail time does not decrease the likelihood of crime being committed. In order to reduce crime, you must increase the possibility that the criminals will be caught. Maybe it should be illegal for alcohol to be served on college campuses unless distributed by a licensed bartender in a building complete with security, chaperones and designated taxis. The presence of officers on campus walking and driving around on a regular basis available for reports and early intervention. We need to increase the chances real criminals will be caught, and once caught, given a fair trial. I think women are generally fed up with the lack of reform and tolerance for rape. They are triggered and know something needs to be done. It is wrong to generically lash out at men for this, and it wont help fix it. If men are made aware, we all can work together to improve both sides of the problems.
@@HisWordisLife4U I think that lying to the police comes under "wasting police time". This is an offence against the police (i.e. the state) The problem with reform is that due to the strength of the feminist lobbyists, it will be more towards increasing convictions rather than better justice. There has been great resistance to granting automatic anonymity to the accused. Also, if you are found not guilty, it remains on your CRB so that you will not get employment in many areas.
I don't think I've heard anyone excusing rape because of the way victims dress or behave. What I have heard is people pointing out that women who put themselves in dangerous positions are failing to take responsibility for their own safety in much the same way as anyone would be if they left their car window open or walked down a dangerous alley in the dark. Feminists like to cast this as rape enabling and then go on to assert that it is a woman's right to do whatever she wants and if anything happens to her it is the fault of all men to take responsibility for the perpetrator.
I don't believe that defendants get a fair shake in the justice system. There are too many feminists in the system and feminist activist groups providing unscientific "experts" trying to set precedents so that they can up the conviction rate on flimsier and flimsier evidence. The lengths the police and CPS went to to prosecute Mark Pearson in the face of the evidence should have been an eye-opener.
I read about Mark Pearson. That was not ok either. Rape culture is affecting both sides badly, but it shouldn't pit women against men. Men can be plied with liquor, slipped a date rape drug and be raped too. We should both work together to make rape culture a thing of the past and make our countries better in this area for men and women.
@Just one more thing Most rapes go unreported completely. No one really has a lot of faith in the system for the victim or the accused. How should we encourage victims to report and keep innocent men safe? What do you suggest? Gotta start somewhere...
To avoid being mugged, you should never take money out of an ATM in a bad neighborhood where you might be watched, you shouldn't walk alone at night in a bad neighborhood, and you shouldn't dress with obvious signs of wealth while walking alone at night in a bad neighborhood. *Thank you so much for this wise advice*
To avoid being a burglary victim, you should install a security system. Don't plant shrubs near windows. Have outdoor lights, especially motion-sensor lights. Keep your doors and windows locked. *Thank you so much for this wise advice*
To avoid being a victim of car theft, don't leave your car unlocked, especially with the keys in the ignition. Park your car in a well-lighted space. *Thank you so much for this wise advice*
To avoid being attacked by a bear, make noise when hiking. Don't put food in your tent. *Thank you so much for this wise advice*
To avoid being raped -- *HOW DARE YOU BLAME THE VICTIM*
@@thesisypheanjournal1271 We should live in a world where people are safe from rape. Or at least when they are caught, they are punished instead of everyone acting like it was sex between two consenting adults and no one's business. When will people realize when rape is tolerated, it makes the world worse for everyone.
@@HisWordisLife4U And we should live in a world where people are safe from muggings, burglary, and car theft as well. Predators exist and the wise person takes precautions to avoid them. When they strike -- as they will because there will always be human evil -- the perpetrators must be identified and punished. But that doesn't mean that we should live stupidly.
And sometimes rape is opportunistic - drunk females passed out, as an example.
This guy is so intelligent and lucid, I've learnt a lot about the law in just 35 minutes (and I'm still learning!). Wish he'd pronounce "PREvalence" and "PREvalent" properly, though!
What I appreciate about Triggernometry is that it doesn't press a paticular narrative. That is the essence of open mindedness.
That's what I like about their chanel as well. They allow people to speak on the subjects they are knowledgeable in without trying to control the conversation. I'm glad there is independent media that has a platform for these discussions.
I think I mostly agree with the talking points and the complexity of those points. The point I know I don't agree with is "The police are understaffed", they are simply prioritizing the wrong things.
If a woman who is drunk forces herself onto a man, who is the offender?
If he said no, and she forced him anyway, she is the offender.
she because she forced herself on him
I made the comment because I have stories of cases where both parties had been drinking, but ended up with he being investigated for rape, not her. One such occasion led to a teenage boy taking his own life. He thought the girl loved him but his relationship with her turned it into a deadly nightmare. A year to the day he died his mother took her own life as she could not live when her only child lay dead. His accuser has remained free and anonymous without redress. Feminist pressure has slewed rape to satisfy an ideological narrative at the cost of justice.
Lol the guy 100 percent acknowledges that rape culture is real and bad but then says its different from people who are serially sexually violent. Okay....
Hmm I believe you were not listening properly, having said that I can think of certain societies where there is actually something resembling a tape culture...
@@Umbrella2 What's a tape culture
"My response to someone who was burgled is not to tell home owners to lock their doors."
I still don't understand how women who consent to sex while drunk are not responsible for their actions, but if they get behind the wheel of a car they are responsible.
Define consent. It is impossible in most cases to physically fend off a man as a woman and when you are drunk it is even harder to physically stop a male who is drunk and has an agenda. Best not to get yourself in that situation where you cannot escape or have little choice in the matter. For women it's kind of like the frog sitting in a pot of water and as it heats up, it goes from relaxing to dangerous without clear lines of distinction by design and strategy of the male. Having said that I am sure there are some women that feel guilty after consenting while drunk, the majority are simply overcome and no consent is ever given, either verbal or otherwise.
@@HisWordisLife4U I'm not talking about nonconsensual sex while drunk I'm talking about women and men who were drunk and horny and consented, but one or both may not remember what they did or regret what they did. It seems activist are trying to turn this into a sexual assault situation. We are getting some of this on the college campuses here in the States. There is a huge problem with due process on campuses.
@@axepagode33626 Everyone is entitled to due process. I guess they would have to define consent. Lack of objecting is not necessarily consent; it could be fear of something worse happening when faced with someone who can physically over power you. Best for women not to get themselves in that situation in the first place. I know many women who have been raped at or after college parties in the states. It is good they are cracking down on it; it's way overdue. A Frat in Washington was actually teaching guys how to get females in positions strategically so they could not refuse. They were GIVEN strategic date rape instructions.
@@michaeldooley3642 What exactly are you saying is a lot of crap? No one said women don't also behave badly. That has nothing to do with what we are talking about. I wouldn't know how women behave in pubs cause I don't hang around there. If anyone grabbed my private parts, I would think you could at least get them kicked out of the pub. That is assault. it's a good idea for everyone to be respectful of one another. It's not an either or proposition here.
@@HisWordisLife4U many women have been raped at college , no they haven't ,you sound like your lying , i don't know any woman that's been raped , because its very rare .
Good interview, though I take issue with his claim that rape is nothing to do with sex. This is the feminist myth of rape as an expression power over/hate of women. Steven Pinker demolished this argument in this book The Blank Slate. Firstly, most rape victims are young (therefore sexually attractive), men given sex drive suppressant drugs hardly never commit rape and the argument is illogical (eg. no one argues muggers commit their crime to exert power over people, they do it to steal money).
The claim debunks itself; rape is defined as unwanted sexual contact specifically of an extreme nature typically constituting penetration.
How are young women more 'vulnerable' than older ones? That makes no sense. And chemical castration has been shown to reduce sexual desire so talking about the ability to get an erection misses the point.
@@iliyakuryakin4671 because if they're very young they may not be powerful or educated enough on the issue or even physically strong enough to fight back. Same way a lot of rapists target children and scare them into silence.
@@schreingeiss By young, I mean young adults. Pinker reported the average age of female rape victims as 24.
@@iliyakuryakin4671 no he said they were 65 percent under 24, not exactly 24. I think the attractiveness of youth has something to do with it, but I think the naivete and weakness of youth is also very likely a factor.
Legally and interpersonally, the concept of consent is a minefield. I don’t think I have ever verbally consented to anything sexual ever. Consent is arrived at by body language and the lack of saying NO.
Even saying no can be part of the interpersonal dance leading up to consent. If men took no for an answer every time they showed interest or leant in for that first kiss, they would never have sex ever. Most women begin the interpersonal dating game by making the man pursue them after an initial knock back and rarely verbally, explicitly say “ok I give you my consent”.
The concept of consent makes victims and perpetrators of just about everyone on planet earth.
Yet we need to have some way of ascertaining If someone was consenting, to identify the very real crime of rape.
A very difficult legal tightrope to walk.
We have to be clear we don't want to do whatever - move away from the situation if we feel that sends the message .
If there is no threat or force and we haven't dissented - no grounds for accusing rape .
What feminists are responding to with their call for explicit consent is first time encounters where a woman has an anxiety attack , perhaps in the midst of kissing - feeling she's lead the man on and scared to say no to going further .
Unless the person is visibly distressed the man wouldnt necessarily know the person wasn't into it
Sometimes we don't handle situations as we would like because anxiety : just have to put it down to experience.
Feminazis must not be allowed to redefine the word rape - to require explicit consent - resulting in men being convicted of something as heinous as that on spurious grounds .
I think it may have more to do with strategy and drinking alcohol, being drunk, or being given a date rape drug, or isolating the victim and what condition she was in and was she able to consent. There are men who strategically stack the deck to the point the woman is afraid and feels like they have to participate or something worse could happen to her. Before any of the other things that can happen to make her less able to say no, women are already starting at a disadvantage not being able to physically fend a man off. That is before all the other things can happen.
1234constantine
Sure, but such men are rare and in the meantime, how, legally, does one prove in court, that a man trying to woo a woman in a pub, bar or club. Buying her drinks or perhaps sharing drugs millions of people take willingly every weekend, before trying to get in her knickers, is a rapist, when ordinary, healthy people do exactly the same things before consensual sex.
We’ve already ascertained that in most cases, humans rarely, if ever verbally grant consent. No is often part of the initial heterosexual dance and in a country like Britain, drink and narcotics are commonly taken willingly by both parties.
So other than how the woman feels subjectively, or the man’s intent, things we cannot truly know without Minority Report, retrospective mind reading technology.
Things in the unseen privacy of both parties minds. We have no way of knowing the difference between a healthy liaison and a manipulative one.
Especially when one adds in retrospective subjective feelings!
“I don’t remember much but I feel bad about it a week later therefore it must’ve been rape”
Sure there are the obvious cases.
Violent stranger rape or rape where witnesses saw a man carrying an unconscious woman away and she tested positive for rohypnol.
But the rest is subjective.
What is the difference between buying a consenting adult drinks and trying to get her alone for a snog, and “plying” a “victim” with alcohol and trying to “isolate” her for “exploitation”?
It’s all entirely subjective and what looks like a smoking gun when using words like “plying”, “victim” and “isolating”, could be completely innocent, in fact healthy and obviously so when we put less loaded words on it.
Was he plying or buying?
Strategizing or wooing?
Was he isolating his prey or trying to get the girl he fancied alone?
Was she consenting or not?
Is she a consenting adult or a victim?
It’s all in the spin.
Subjective and open to either interpretation. Down to the private, unseeable feelings of the woman and private, unseeable intentions of the man.
So once we leave the realm of violent stranger rape or obvious drink spiking, into the concept of date rape, were essentially guessing.
Going with our subjective feelings about the private unseeable subjective feelings of a pair of intoxicated strangers at some date in the distant past where there were no witnesses to the actual event.
An act that is totally legal if in the privacy of the woman’s mind, at the time it was happening, there was no resistance.
So everything else you’ve added into the mix actually are just as hard to pin down legally as consent.
Buying drinks is legal, trying to get the someone alone is legal. Sex is legal and humans rarely verbally consent or have witnesses hanging around during sex.
So beyond violent stranger rape or spiked drinks, it’s a legal guessing game.
@@honestjohn6418 I see what you are saying. I think it would be hard to prove but it does happen and it happens a lot. I think more so in the upper classes in subcultures that tolerate it, in some cases encourage, and even expect it. This kind of predator selects their victims carefully. University campuses in particular are one place I know it happens. I do not think most men act like this, of course not. From my experience it is men who feel insulated by power or privilege who think they can easily get away with it, who are the problem. The best way to avoid these situations is to not be alone with a stranger while drinking. Don't ever go to a secondary location with them after you have had too much to drink or drugs, and pay for and retrieve your own drinks to make sure there is nothing in them. I am mostly talking about stranger rape and spiked drinks...but date rape happens too. In California No means NO and if she says anytime during the wooing, kissing or otherwise NO, No means no and there is no excuse to go any further period. I don't think we can say that just because someone takes drugs willingly they are asking to be raped as well, but it sure ups the chances it can happen, because they are more vulnerable. I think it is necessary to look at the whole picture from start to finish. Strategically isolating the woman is a key factor for me...Did you ask her if she wanted to go home or did you just drive her half conscious to your home without asking? It is wrong for people to take advantage of a weaker person who is too young or is in no shape to give their consent whether it is from their willful ingesting of alcohol or drugs or whether they were slipped a date drug. IMO men should not take advantage of women in this condition. There is no excuse for it.
1234constantine
The problem with that, is that means, subjectively, we’re all simultaneously rapists and victims.
Most women initially say no, verbal consent is almost never attained and most people, at least in the Anglosphere, get inebriated before they engage in wooing and sex.
When I was younger I was having sex with a slightly older woman. We were both extremely drunk and high. I drifted in and out of consciousness as she jumped my bones. I didn’t care, at the time but it was embarrassing and awkward in retrospect.
If I now define her failure to notice my drifting in and out of consciousness, as assault, how would she conceivably be able to defend herself from my accusation?
Well, if she were a man and I a woman, she wouldn’t and would face at best, total reputation destruction and at worst a couple of decades in prison!
Having such a strict interpretation of what is and is not acceptable sexually, may capture the minority of genuine perpetrators but it also makes victims and perps of all of us.
Leading to miscarriages of justice on an industrial scale.
Also I think it’s questionable to say “privilege” heightens the possibility of such crimes when poverty, lawlessness and lack of privilege clearly is correlated with higher rates of sexual crimes.
But that would lead to the stigmatisation of minorities and poor people, so we quite rightfully avoid using it as an indicator.
The whole idea that middle class “privileged” white men in universities or boardrooms are more likely to be sexual predators, is no different, and has about as much evidence for saying, young black men in underprivileged, high crime neighbourhoods have a higher propensity to sexual predation.
There’s sound evidence of that but we sensibly and purposely avoid making that connection.
Love your Interviews, and real life viewpoints. Kind regards from Germany
The problem is you have people who want to behave in a risky fashion, and then force the government/law to make up for their risky choices. This is on both men and women's sides. Some women want to behave in a risky manner, invite male attention, and then either deny it or regret the outcome later. Some men want to have sex with lots of women, and then get upset when one of them tricks him into pregnancy and marriage. Risky behavior should have consequences, and the law should never be used to alleviate or reverse those consequences. If you're a woman and you're inviting the attention or not making your intentions crystal clear to the men around you, or you refused to indicate you wanted something to stop and then claim later that you were taken advantage of, that's on you. Same with men who do not strongly vet the women they get involved with for responsibility and maturity. Enough with using the LAW to make up for the STUPID CHOICES of idiots.
i understand what youre trying to say but be careful how you put it, as you are conflating someone removing consent retroactively and someone wanting to "invite male attention", everyone can invite all the attention that they want and then say no which may upset the other party, thats not risk thats personal choice, and is not the same as removing consent after the fact. And really isnt the same as men being tricked into fatherhood....
I think i know what you mean but your examples are a form of false equivalency.
People have free choice end of
peoples choices can influence other peoples actions
Nobody gets a free pass for sexual assault
nobody should be able to withdraw consent retroactively
@@LazyGoose872
Let me put it in another form of hypothetical. What if I invited the attention of my neighbors by parking an unlocked Lamborghini on the street in Compton. Now, for about 5-6 hours, I would be the envy of everyone on the neighborhood, I would get lots of attention from everyone who wants that Lambo. Now presumably as soon as I fell asleep, that car would be gone. What if I then arrogantly presume that laws must change because I refuse to change my behavior in response to a predictable level of criminal activity? Who is in the wrong there? Would you honestly suggest that laws that are solely in existence to reduce the risk for risky behavior are a proper use of law?
Law cannot remove bad elements in society, it can only prosecute their bad actions after the fact. So why do we tolerate people saying that laws must change, indeed culture must radically change, in order to accommodate someone who behaves in a way that invites the attention of criminals?
Again, if I could kill every rapist before they commit the act, I would. But none of us are mind-readers, we don't know who the rapists are until they act. So why should laws change to absolve those who engage in risky behavior and in the process put everyone else (the law abiding people) in the ridiculous situation of having to choose which life to destroy when he-said/she-said cases erupt?
@@jeremyrainman That's a straw man argument. We all know the difference between rape and consensual sex, so stop pretending that you don't.
@@jeremyrainman jeremyrainman okay I really tried with that but I'm feeling theres a general point you wanted to make with both your comments, as the car example is irrelevant. it is illegal to steal and the person who had the car stolen, regardless of their decisions up to that point is not responsible for others actions.
It would be more effective for you to explain what you meant in the first comment I think as human interactions are completely and categorically different to property theft.
People that act like idiots or make risky decisions as you put it are indeed more likely to be on the receiving end of undesired treatment in one form or another, but legally, assuming everyone is telling the truth about a situation, the law is on the side of the victim. The way you act by flirting, inviting attention or owning a fancy car has nothing to do with another individuals actions, only asking someone to do something and then complaining after they did it would be comparable from a logical standpoint. A better parallel would be that the car was broken into and not that it was left open for it to be stolen, as you cant state that inviting attention implicitly means anything, as like you also say, you cant read minds.
So I'm sorry if I'm missing something obvious but the points you are making arent logically equivalent as far as I can tell....?
@@LazyGoose872
*....it is illegal to steal and the person who had the car stolen, regardless of their decisions up to that point is not responsible for others actions.*
Now it is clear you are interjecting your own imagination into my words. Nothing that I have said implies that rape should be legal. Rape has been illegal for centuries if not from the dawn of rule of law. Normal men will actually sacrifice their life to save women and children from this sort of harm, even the lives of women and children they do not know, this has basically been proven by psychological studies. Nothing that I have said can be taken to say that the rapist is not responsible for their actions, but you interpreted it that way. I think you should ask yourself why you interpreted it that way before continuing.
What I said was that changing laws BECAUSE of the risky behavior of the victim is BAD LAW, and any law based on such a notion is guaranteed to create a police state at some point down the line. Laws that attempt to make a criminal decision based on which person was "more drunk", or "had the right biology", or any other entirely irrelevant facts to the incident in question will take otherwise good law and give license to those who use it to alter innocent peoples lives based on the judgement of 12 people on an incident in the lives of the defendant/accuser that they were not witness to. Justice was never meant to work this way, it was designed to be imperfect and come to no conclusions when the facts cannot be known.
*but legally, assuming everyone is telling the truth about a situation, the law is on the side of the victim.*
That is fundamentally untrue. The purpose of law is to make a determination of whether or not the facts of a case constitute a violation of law. Sometimes (hopefully rarely) the law is against the victim because it was the victim who violated the law.
Has a crime been committed if a woman entices a man into sexual intercourse having ensured he is either drunk, or under the influence of something else, which renders him unable to make a responsible decision based on informed consent? If as a result of the sexual intercourse the woman becomes pregnant is the man deemed responsible and liable for the maintenance of the child? Why is it that during any exchange between a man and a woman where both are incapable of responsible decision making it is the man who is held accountable for what occurs and not the woman?
The worst example of this. Are the cases where an adult woman raped an underage boy. Then once he turned 18, he was hit up for Child Support & ordered to pay the intervening years.
F*cking disgusting.
@@biggsydaboss3410 that one case went worldwide proabably while literally in everywhere that happens to girls all the time, thats sad but look at the facts instead of one case
@@apologygirl8513 I'm not just looking at one case though. Thats exactly why I refer to "cases".
Also worldwide trends aren't necessarily applicable to our individual cultures. The term "no representative sample" come around mind.
Does what happens in the Congo or other 3rd world sh*t holes really matter in respect to what's happening in the US or UK?
Oh really, mate? Maybe you should tell that to all the young girls in Rotherham, Rochdale and countless other towns across the UK!
That's not a rape culture in the UK or the west at large. That's a rape culture amongst Islam and a phobiaphobic police that doesn't want to appear racist.
@@thelongstory6395 Umm yeah, that's kinda what I was alluding to in my comment. I find it almost amusing that the same people who harp on about a supposed 'rape culture' on college campuses invariably disregards the systematic gang rape of underage gris all across Britain.
I should probably have been more explicit.
@@benjamin4894 I haven't heard anyone disregarding anything. People just talk about what they know about. If you know about some crimes being committed maybe you should talk about it. People who have actually been raped have lots of empathy for each other. It is not a competition.
@@HisWordisLife4U What an utterly ridiculous thing to say? Particularly as the constabulary, every level of government and their friends in the established media actively 'disregarded' all the claims made by victims nation-wide. And then of course they declined to release the findings after launching a lengthy taxpayer funded enquiry into the whole scandal.
@@benjamin4894 How utterly ridiculous saying what I said was ridiculous. You are ridiculous. Are you on the right thread? Just checking cause your reply makes no sense whatsoever.
6:54, Konstantin showing he can act the"ex-KGB interrogator" role.
cant believe all the positive comments on here. im a woman and the way he speaks about rape does not show real sensitivity to its heinousness. at 5:00 he demonstrates one point of view as absurd and ridiculous and the other to be only slightly conservative. he then goes on to give an enourmous benefit of the doubt to those writing an account of a crime of which they have been accused, and trusting, naively that the accused really had no idea they were raping someone. most if not all adult knows what rape is and that sex must be consensual or it can fuck peoples heads up for life. consent was either given or it wasn’t, you cannot insert interpretative consent on one side of the story. if the account matches and neither include consent, it is clear only one party was proactive in the sexual intercourse.
I think some people go on about the 3% stat because a good amount of cases which could have been taken forward weren't, so no charges brought. In my case the perpetrator admitted in an voluntary interview to coercive rape ,I was then told this was a legal grey area so the case wouldn't be taken forward. These kind of problems in the system infuriate people. How is someone saying "have sex with me or I'll hurt you " or "have sex with me or I'll hurt myself " a grey area ? Even if consent is given during these situations it isn't concent if there are threats of violence if consent isn't given. The good phrase of " yes doesn't mean shit if you can't so no " sums it up.
The idea that having sex by raping someone is nothing to do with sex is up there with no biological difference between men and women. I could understand that the excitement could come from domination or revenge or doing something forbidden, but can't see how it can't be sexual. The number of straight men who rape other straight men in order to be violent to them doesn't seem to be very high... The driver for rape is surely primarily lust, but I'm probably not supposed to say that, it's probably not very PC.
If we were to take away victim anonymity then barely anyone would report the crime. That's a ludicrous idea.
This was a really interesting interview..very balanced and nuanced.
The term Rape Culture originated in reference to what goes on in prisons.
and what is the difference on the outside exactly? People in charge not wanting to be bothered to take a report, people in authority looking the other way and perpetrators getting away with it, sounds the same to me.
@Dusk Hollow What do you mean "called on it"? What is wrong with calling something what it is? Rape culture means: rape is tolerated, minimized, people cover it up, look the other way and discourage or block others from reporting it and when it is brought to light belittle, berate and blame the victims. All designed to keep victims quiet so the crime keeps growing without any accountability. Why are you so worried there is a definition?
@Dusk Hollow what part of "you don't get to define the definition of words we use" do YOU not understand?
@Dusk Hollow What I know is rape culture exists out of prisons, that is what matters. That is what we are discussing. What statistics do you have about rape and where do you get them?
@Dusk HollowWhere do you get your stats ? I am not a fool or a feminist. It doesn't matter where the term came from. It matters that it is happening and needs to stop. Why don'y you focus on that?
I’m a psychotherapist in the US. The year after Neil Gorsuch was appointed to the Supreme Court, I had 7 women and 1 man come forward with rape allegations. Of the 7 women, all but 2 eventually - through their exploration of the circumstances and their experience - recanted the allegation as something like “more complicated than rape,” or “I think I had some part in ending up in bed with him,” etc. This is NOT to discount actual rape accounts, but to demonstrate how much perception, memory, and other aspects (e.g. social) play a role. I have, over the years, had a number of men report being sexually assaulted (usually when they were extremely drunk) or being pressured into sex. Not one (that I know of) has ever reported.
Wow so informative, feel like my brain has learnt something new. This one is an underrated talk.
Another great episode
Predudicial juries are a problem referencing the comment 78% conviction rate
How do you come to that conclusion?
@@biggsydaboss3410 I sat on one, getting to a decision was more about which bus to catch home especially if that was an afternoon decision
Rape can be both a sexual act and a violent act. It is always violent by design, but just imagine that not all or maybe even most rape is about some domination fantasy but maybe a sociopath or someone with low impulse control and inflated ego who's really horny using violence to get sex from someone they find attractive/is isolated and vulnerable and thus easy prey.
It's like saying all home invasion is about power, the theft of property is just a side effect and not the motivation for the act, ever.
I thought, based on the title of the video, that the topic of false allegations would be examined as well. But hearing this guys perspectives I am not surprised that it was crickets on that subject.
Yes, the PC notion that rapes isn't about sex has been if not refuted, then at least seriously challenged by the book "The Natural History of Rape." From an evolutionary perspective, for a minority of men, rape is in essence a reproductive strategy. Not consciously of course, but as a means of access to women. For the majority, violence doesn't pay as it tends to be too costly. But for some marginalized men who few women find attractive, rape might be a rational strategy from the point of view of survival of your (or having) offspring, and probably evolved for this reason. I also don't understand conceptually why sex cannot be violent. Is this just wishful thinking?
Well, this wasn't intellectually honest. Firstly, he didn't defined what he means as rape culture.
There is data that proves connection between porn consumption and violence. Even more, there is data showing connection between music and violence. Furthermore, MET and Ministry of Justice fights grime and drill because they supposed effect on young people in London.
Secondly, when it's useful he portrays feminism as a unity when he needs, he can differentiate between schools.
Thirdly, man on man rape is not a contra point to second wave/rad feminism.
Moreover, it's a bit contradictory to claim how ridiculous were feminists ( yeah, without the context...) to claim that sex is rapey per se and than point how long English law didn't recognise marital rape.
I also greatly appreciate this talk. I came in thinking I’d be triggered by a man talking about rape...but no, I greatly appreciate Luke Gitto’s perspective.
My disagreement though is that “rape” is defined by a male perspective. Sorry, I know I sound like an identity-politics person-I’m not-I generally appreciate most men. But *generally speaking* I think a man and woman’s approach to sex is different and women’s voices on the subject have been poo-pooed and ignored.
Rape is defined as an act of violence. But there is no word or category to describe a sexual violation
(I hit post before I finished typing)
I was interested in my looks when I was younger, like a lot of women out there. I never did that to attract sexual attention, I was merely exploring what I can do with my own body/looks/identity. I was trying to attract myself and feel good about myself, and sorry but it’s so stupid that men always think this is about them!
Also, I have clearly told people no, I’ve clearly told them what I want and expect, and that has also been violated. Sometimes I’m nice to men (and women and people in general) because it feels good to be nice, not because I’m flirting, not because I’m attracted to you, and not because I want to have sex with you.
My boyfriend said to me “we’ll if you’re attracted to someone that means you want to have sex with them.” And I said “just because you want a car, and just after a car, does that actually mean you’re REALLY going to buy the car? I’m satisfied with admiring the car from a distance.” And further, if you can afford the car (and this metaphor is getting ridiculous, but if the car tells you no), does that mean you’re going to steal the car?
I think so many women are broken by men’s violations. The only word they have to describe the emotional turmoil, which does have a significant, negative impact on a woman’s life, is the word “rape.”
There is no legal recourse to address this violation. Men also don’t view this violation as a big deal.
I do believe there is a bias here. The “pushback” from the interviewers was weak, I would’ve asked very different, hard questions as a woman.
But overall I appreciate this whole topic. All the points were interesting and very valid. This is a great stepping stone to understand big misunderstandings that surround rape/abuse/violence.
@@karariekstins366 Hi Kara. I understand what you mean when you say that a man's and a woman's (average) approach to sex is different. One thing that the feminist movement has tried to foster is the perceived socially "polite" assumption that men and women are innately generally the same and that sexually disparate behaviour are predominantly/entirely down to socialisation.
I think that just as there can be such a thing as "rigid gender roles and norms" there is also a thing as "rigid gender neutrality" where people are forced to adhere to norms that assume the common feminist notion. When actually to have the optimal social interaction would be to accept and being able to work with sexually differentiated individuals (typically men and women).
This doesn't mean men and women are binary in terms of gender and sex. That men are all generally one thing and women all generally another. But they are bimodal - the distribution of a particular trait/characteristic across the human population if divided by sex won't necessarily align with it each other. They would skew in different directions.
Luke says (from 7:48 to that not only do people embroiled in such court cases not only do they have a fundamentally different account of what takes place, they have a fundamentally different understanding of how they should interpret the events that took place within the account. So two people can come to a case with the same factual understanding of what occurred, but different understandings of how to interpret it. Luke says that dynamic needs to be taken seriously.
I do wonder that one of the perhaps unintended side effects of the notion that men and women are innately the same and only socialisation makes us different is that where young people internalise that they start to approach sexual situations with the understanding that the other person is on the same page as them when they're not. It's because in their mind being progressive means that they do treat the person they're engaging in intimate relations with as an equal not just in worth, but general attributes and mental predilections and so miss how they might interpret a situation differently. Men advance on a woman in a way that they assume would be treating her like an equal and thus be a "liberating" act for her - when it is not in reality what woman are necessarily entirely comfortable with or desire.
One feminist, Louise Perry, has also discussed the idea that part of the confusion over what might not be consensual has come from some feminists trying to expand the notion of what is consensual to other sexual behaviour that while is perceptibly unethical isn't consensual as liberal sex-positive feminism had decreed that the only arbiter of whether a sex act was moral was whether it was "consensual". She was responding to a feminist who had posted a twitter threat stating that if a man sleeps with a woman when she's under the impression that it's means the start of a relationship, but really he doesn't want that, that qualified as rape. Perry's response was the reason that appears unethical isn't because it's necessarily unconsensual, it's just it's devious - and actually a sexual morality (and a feminist sexual morality that accomodates male/female differences) needs to encompass more than just a notion of consent (which in of itself decides what is criminal or not). As for the discussion point in hand she concluded with a sentence along the lines of "don't send fuckboys to jail, just stop having sex with them".
(I tried to find the twitter threads, but I couldn't sorry).
That's a bit of a mix of my thoughts on the gender politics of it. I hope it gives you some ideas and you can come up with an interesting response to it.
@@karariekstins366 Do you think much of liberal sex-positive feminism captures much of what women want in regards to attitudes towards sex and women? Or do you think there's some blind-spots with the movement.
Really interesting & illuminating discussion.
Fascinating interview.
This "prevalence of retrograde attitude" sentence by Like Gittos left me in doubt. Isn't accepting to take a drink at the other's appartment at 2 in the morning after a party a sign of consent ? of course it is. Everybody knows it. It's not retrograde, it's human nature.
Are you really saying accepting a drink is the same as agreeing to sex?
Is it not rape with an adult female has sex with a teenage boy in the UK. In the US, it is considered statutory rape and sexual assault.
Personally i dont consider that rape
@@Macheako
What doesn't kill you, make you stronger.
Greeks would take you young to a war and "culturally" enrich you.
It wasn't rape either.
@@Macheako There are several stories were 20 something teachers have had sex with their 15 and 16 year old students. These women were locked up. Even though most 16 boys would love to do this, if you reversed it and had a 25 male teacher having sex with a 15 year old female student it is very clear that something wrong is going on.
It's not rape, despite the majority of British people thinking it is, because the UK's justice system is a mess.
@Ordinary Sessel he said Teenage Boys....do you not know the meaning of TEENager, bruv?
I wouldn't be happy if my 13 year old boy had sex with a 30 year old woman, but If I'm being honest I'm not about to have him get taught by a physically arousing woman at his horniest age....
In my line of work (in education) I've had to investigate 3 cases of serious sexual assault....in all 3 cases incontrovertible evidence emerged that the woman was lying and had manipulated the situation for her own personal gain (one for revenge, one for embarrassment, one to get herself out of trouble)
ok that sucks, so that tiny percentage of people who do that means anyone who was assaulted wont get justice.
@@apologygirl8513 Umm...
1. It's not a tiny percentage
2. That doesn't mean that victims shouldn't get justice.
@@therealmrfishpaste 2 to 10% out of 100 hate to break it but thats small
@@apologygirl8513 False. What are your sources
@@therealmrfishpaste look it up dumbshit, its not false your an "educator" not an investigator. also you strike me as the teacher who sexually harrases his students LMAO
You need to ask this question First demonstrate the existence of rape culture.
Pretty sure the "3% conviction rate" is not a myth because it's not simply referring to rape accusations taken to the level of the courts of justice etc, but include rapes that are not "officially" reported, or that might be reported but the CPS doesn't allow them to go further due to lack of evidence.
The sexualisation of children, in particular, but also of Women, in advertising and in pornography magazines etc is another big indicator of our culture being a rape culture.
The lack of resources to properly investigate claims or even the psychology of victims and perpertrators, is another.
The fact that 1:4 Females and 1:5 Males will experience traumatic sexual assault and/or rape in their lifetimes is yet another indicator.
I could go on. I just wanted to make the point that we can't deny rape culture when measured by convictions.
Caroline Smyth did... did you not listen to anything he said? Rape is a violent crime, not a sex crime. I’m sure you didn’t study law but I did and the distinction between types of crime is extremely important.
Also... what has the sexualisation of children got to do with a legally defined non-sexual crime? Curious.
@@Papa1Smurf1Why is it important to make that distinction? Also, where did i state that rape is a sex crime?
And the sexualization of children is extremely relevant because it makes them easier to meet up with on these sites, plagued by thousands of adult men, and to rape.
I would have thought the 3% figure refers to cases that have gone fully through the system; I'm not sure what you mean by “rapes not officially reported”. And cases that the CPS do not send forward for lack of evidence shouldn't be included at all, because there simply was not, in those cases, sufficient evidence to confirm a rape had actually taken place.
I can't say anything about the sexualisation of children, because, apart from reports of the odd - and in my experience - rare, reporting of individual cases, I have seen no evidence for it. And the “sexualisation” of women in advertising and pornography, is, surely, a “consulting adult” thing, which can only happen with their consent.
I also don't agree that the authorities lack resources. Investigating sexual assault is now one of the main things the police do, starving resources from other crimes, such as burglary, which is now routinely not investigated - so I've read.
And the figures you give have long been debunked, because they were never based on fact. Koss got similar figures by manipulating the evidence. One notorious way in which she did it was to ask university students whether they had ever had sex while being drunk. Those that sad “yes”, she listed as rape victims. In a more recent investigation, to reassure women's groups, the Australian Human Rights Commission spent a million dollars on a survey intended to uncover evidence of a rape culture. The response was:
However, the survey found that only tiny numbers experienced sexual assault (an average of 0.8 percent over each of the two years studied), even when a broad definition of sexual assault was applied that included touching by a stranger on public transport to campus. The main finding was low-grade sexual harassment (mainly unwanted staring) which the universities then promoted as alarming levels of “sexual violence.”
So there is no evidence of a rape culture. Rape occurs, and it is horrible, and, when backed by evidence, it is dealt with. Except, of course, when it is females raping (forcing sex on) males (and, no, all males will not enjoy being raped by females, even if they are not gay). In the latter case, it is taken much less seriously, and the law was changed by feminists in the last Labour government to allow female rapists to get off relatively lightly.
@@wisemanner5012 all i can say is your response highlights your (and others) ignorance regards to "Rape Culture"... Rape Culture soil is fertile... and i can see why feminists bang on about "The Patriarchy"... Just because there is not enough evidence, does not mean rape didnt occur. I've been raped many times. The only time i had courage enough, and evidence enough to go through the courts, it was me on trial and he got away with it. He went on to rape others. Statistics mean NOTHING when compared to actual experience. I am not alone regarding these kinds of experiences. Put simply, you are wrong.
@@carolinesmyth127 You were obviously very unlucky. All I can say, regarding personal experience, is that none of the females I have been involved with in my adult life has ever been raped.
This will trigger more than a few just on the title of the video 🤣
Daniel Kitts snowflakes will be meting in abundance
And YOU AJ17 clearly did not listen to a word he said. YOU are the one misusing statistics. YOU are the one promoting a lie.
@AJ17
How many of them were false, how many plead to a lesser charge, how many of them couldn't be processed due to laws surrounding the gathering of evidence, how many of those claims were made by a third party but was found out later to be completely innocent?
A similar example, my partner & I were having a right old ding dong (argument). My daughter said "Stop shouting at my mummy". The neighbours thought she said "Stop hitting my mummy". Anyway the argument ended, my then partner went out shopping, the police came around, basically insinuated that I killed her, because she wasn't there. I got her on the phone to speak to the police, she then had to drop her shopping, come home with ID to prove I hadn't killed her. There was no previous history of any kind of DV, nor had the police ever been called out.
See things like this happen. They get labelled as "rape claims" even though nothing untoward had been going on.
The guy in the interview went over such numbers & more. Basically of those who go to trial for rape, get convicted at 78%. The rest don't, either because they were not guilty or the charges were reduced.
@AJ17 Do you think there should be a 100% conviction rate?
@AJ17 Yikes that is awful. Add to that most rape victims don't report the crime and why? because we live in a rape culture where it is tolerated. The US, UK and Canada are similar.
What do you think happens if someone is told they are "responsible" for a situation, but if that situation ever occurs they are never to "blame" for it?
Homeowner, you are responsible to not douse your entire house in gasoline and then play with matches. BUT if your house ever catches fire... somehow... you are never to BLAME for it.
You need to talk about _backup_ culture.
"the system is stacked against the state" he says
then he says most accused people get convicted
seems contradictory
Interesting video. Shame there isn't a woman on the panel, such a thing would dismiss the entire interview for some people who may disagree with the premise.
Very very tricky subject....dealt with well I think....well done
feminism is just female narcissism.
FF your hair is starting to look a lot better. I can tell that you read the comments.
Please - what are the conviction rates for false accusers and associated family/criminal court perjury ?
@Ordinary Sessel Thanks for your reply. My point exactly. They show no understanding that false allegations exist, let alone begin to apprehend the damage they do. I expected better of these tow content creators. Yes you can guess, I was accused. My wife was harming our young daughters. My mother died when she heard what her son was accused of. I lost my family integrity, my house, my health, my career, my confidence in the authorities and those around me and lots more. Never dared to integrate again myself - but I did, prove my innocence, manage to bring the daughters to safety, and raise them myself. And of course the liars were not even told off. Yet note these guys don't begin to see that false allegations must be as bad as RAPE. Also in fact the biggest victims in this have been my daughters who were raised in poverty, because the court in its wisdom ordered me out of work. So putting aside what I have been through, the ignorant ones don't even recognise those female real victims of child abuse and "violence towards women".
@Marshal Anderson I am not in any way trivialising the effect of real rape on a woman, just arguing that there is another side which to my experience is completely trivialised and except for an occasional anomaly completely ignored. If we are to have justice then I say Justice for everyone. Have no doubt, if my daughters were raped, I would take that just as seriously as if a son was falsely accused.
@Marshal Anderson I will add that if they did as you claim, it was brief and easily missed - while as is usual, the rape concerns were recycled continuously through the item - Now that is not balance. Also I notice that people feel quite at ease questioning and doubting male false accusation victims - why is that? Would they dare doubt and question a rape claimant? yet the damage has to be similar. For example I have heard the claim that rape victims lose confidence and trust socially... well so do we. We don't know what is going on in the heads of people of either sex around us. That is because males are conditioned to "white-knight for women" without question - that is how me and my kids have faced down the barrel of a gun. Now I tell you that is traumatic in the extreme and left me with having to settle the terrified children, both are girls, and both carry the scars of the past and false allegations. If you have not been falsely accused yourself yet, (nobody is immune), try to imagine how it would be for you if you were falsely accused. Firstly all normality evaporates. You are automatically guilty and people with agencies collaborate to do you harm. Assistance are denied you , so do not imagine you can know what is being cooked up or how to respond to it. And when you can prove a flaw in their story, they move the goal-posts. This makes legal expensive an keeps you and you team having to start over from scratch. I can't see how you have any idea either if you have not been through it. I am one of the few who came through better than most and proven innocent - the court agreed and I raised the girls. Few falsely accused are so lucky. I know of many other cases, but one stands out. The same social-workers handled the family of a daughter's friend. Child protection arranged what they call an "Evidential interview". They bullied their daughter until she said what they wanted, just to get out of the room. Dad went to jail, and is on the register. That girl and my daughter caught up in the park. She lamented to my daughter that her dad had gone to jail and he was innocent of what they accused ( molesting that daughter). It screwed her head with guilt and screwed dad also - he came out a changed and very unpleasant man.- which was a complete personality transplant. I related this small sample to give you even the ghost of the horror. False allegations also cost lives - my mum died upon hearing of ours and other males commit suicide. Its as if it does not matter - we don't matter and neither will you if you get accused. I was and am completely stainless - innocent, and you might be also. Innocence is no protection.
Damn he loves him some Fred Perry
Dressing provocatively, getting drunk, and/or going to a guy's home don't mean you deserve to get raped. However they do contribute to the miscommunication that you want to have sex, and ambiguity of if you said "yes" or "no" behind a closed door.
You are also responsible for your personal safety. Relying on the better angels of others to protect you when drunk or otherwise vulnerable is stupid. It doesn't make you less of a victim, but making more responsible decisions might make you NOT a victim.
Drunk and incapacitated mean two different things. Someone slurring their words and barely conscious is not the same as someone whos simply drunk.
There are alot of women in this community that want to get drunk and get sexual while they're drunk. Whereas the are also men who prey on stumbling women
Please tell me why we have to teach women and young girls "how to not get raped." Why cant we just teach others not to rape.
@@apologygirl8513 we do teach people to not rape. We also teach people to not murder or steal. Some people do bad things even though they're told not to. Do you take precautions for your physical safety? Do you protect your financial info or have an alarm on your house? We can say both "X is wrong" and "protect yourself against X".
"Teach people not to rape" also totally bypasses the fact that "rape" is now a lot of grey area of drunk miscommunication. If a woman got drunk, handed a dude her purse of cash, and said "you'd look good in a suit" and that dude went and bought himself a suit, is that theft? Maybe, but if she didnt mean for him to buy a suit it sure would be dumb. But we pretend that women have more responsibility to be careful with their purse than with their bodies.
@@sharaguzzetta9504 id rather loose my purse then get raped and have to live with that burden for the rest of my life im sure any woman would agree or man because its almost, you AS a man are forgetting you could get raped too.
my bestfriend was raped, she was known in the group for having sex. her and this boy were about to she told him she wasn't in the mood anymore and wanted to watch a movie or get dinner instead. he said "ok" as any normal good person would. she said she felt safe then he turned around and pinned her down and said terrible dehumanizing things , she told me it felt like something from a horror movie. she had bruises on her wrists. she begged her mom not to report it. she hasent had sex in 5 years, not even with her fiancee.
people like you would yell in her face and tell her its her fault for "being in a dangerous situation." instead of arguing with the victim try to help them
@@apologygirl8513 please take a breath and don't attribute words I didn't say. My purse analogy was to demonstrate that sex can and does fall into areas that can be due to tragic misunderstandings. Women often send mixed messages. I have told my own teenage daughter that if she is asked on a date she doesn't want to go on she needs to communicate kindly but unambiguously. If he doesn't accept "no" she can then be less kind, but her response must include "No, I don't want to go on a date with you."
With regard to forced intercourse where a woman's wishes are unambiguous: there is responsibility all people need to take for their own safety so they are not in a position to be overpowered, not because it is okay if they are victimized, but because evil exists in the world. Pretending otherwise is total insanity.
And for clarification, I'm not a dude. I have definitely made decisions like your friend where I was at the mercy of men I didn't know as well as I should have. Thankfully I wasn't a victim, but I admit it is but for the grace of God. However there have been a lot of situations I consciously didn't put myself in because it would have been dangerous. My safety is my responsibility.
Once again, it is not inconsistent to say both that "perpetrators are wrong and should be punished" and "we all have responsibility for our personal safety."
@@sharaguzzetta9504 a mentality of "im not going to carry a gun or pepper spray or take the safer way out of something because that shouldn't happen just because im a girl" is wrong, it shouldn't happen but sadly it does so everyone needs to take precautions. everyone's responsible for making sure they are safe. but if that does happen people shouldn't get mad at them ive seen that happen a lot.
i know a lot of girls who are shy and cant say no to anything so they let it happen, even if they could have said no, people say thats not rape but i disagree. ive been told as a woman im equal to men and in more power sexually and that is just wrong
but yes i dont think just because your a girl doesnt mean you should be careless, the person who assaulted you will use that against you. and this portrays women as weak and careless and not a victim its not a good look.
I'm sorry guys, I know it's a dark subject but I have to share this valuable piece of information: according to the automatic English subtitles Konstantin's full name is Konstantin KITTEN. Long live the AI!
So with a 78% conviction rate for rape, I wonder what percent of those men are actually guilty?
I'm ecstatic you asked such a great question! It's been proven rape allegations made to police or campus authority are estimated to be false approximately 2% to 10% of the time.
@@apologygirl8513 I think the key word here is estimated. In cases that generally come down to "He said, she said" it would be very difficult to get an accurate figure. Having said that, in the cases which are found to be false & therefor the young woman has lied, I wonder what punishment she faces. Would it be the same as the man would have faced had he been found guilty, such as getting kicked out of school or facing a possible prison sentence? I rather think not.
@@apologygirl8513 that statistic represents those allegations has been proven to be false but it does not mean the majority of accusations are true as there is a grey area.
Do you really trust a jury? People are imperfect
@Marshal Anderson I suppose it's all we've got. I don't know why they don't use lie detectors in the courts
@@demonshelby1311 Inadmissible
@@demonshelby1311 lie detectors arent always accurate... I don't know why the rapists previous behaviours arent brought into the equation. One of the men who raped me had raped before and raped again after he was aquitted.
@@carolinesmyth127 I'm sorry to hear that. I thought it had been changed so that if a crime of similarity happened before it was read out in court. Of paedophiles at least. Stay well x
@@demonshelby1311 Thanks for your compassion... I was an adult when he raped me... he was in court in 2005 and it certainly didn't apply then... Hope that's true about Child Rapists. Atleast something's going in the right direction.
Interesting indeed!
The definition of rape is being broadened is a good thing ?! NO, its not as long as women can't legally rape a man its sure as hell is not. The only broadening that needs to happen is that envelopment is also rape. But i already see this guy is as gynocentric as it gets.
"can't legally rape a man" did you mean to write: cannot illegally rape a man? but yeah, i dont know a western world country where its still legal for a woman to rape? so dont know what you were referencing there.
@@Redmanticore ye mistype should be : as long as women legally cant rape a man..
It mean that the law dos not recognizes a rape of lets say a boy by a women the highest conviction she would get is sexual assault.
it's not a helpful concept and actually trivializes sexual assault by applying the charge too broadly. While that may seem a good way to raise 'awareness', it actually results in making forcible rape and coercion harder to establish and less likely to be punished severely - while increasing scrutiny and pressure on victims. And the whole 'affirmative consent' concept that arises is legally untenable. RAINN has written against the promotion of 'rape culture' advocacy if you're interested in the perspective of a well established org that's dedicated to fighting sexual assault.
The right to anonymity should perhaps be withdrawn from complainants who lose their case. That might also discourage baseless or trivial accusations.
I'd only say that if they've been PROVEN liars or untrue (not just if they lose the case - it can be the case you can't prove the guilt, but can't prove the guilt of the complainant either - presumption of innocence goes both ways).
if that was the case no rape victim would ever press charges for fear of that. that would end all allegations-even the true ones
@@zv8291 Are you making an argument for keeping the plaintiff in every court case anonymous, just in case they lose? That’s not how the legal system works. I agree with Tobias, though. Proven liars should be outed and charged with wasting police time. False accusations cause untold damage.
Interesting point. In the roman empire, as far as I understand so take everything with many grains of salt, concubines referred more or less to female non-married lovers. Rape laws didn't apply to them or wives or prostitutes kinda for the reason that Luke gave at the end that it's really difficult to count what intimate things partners do as what would in theory be the same thing as what the law states (or in the case of prostitutes that it's kinda hard to prove that you were raped if you're always being payed for sex, which seems to be why promiscuous women were later counted by law as prostitutes). The romans dealt with the issue by counting lovers and wives as having already consented to sex by consenting to the relationship itself. Maybe it was the reason why that existed in common law too
so martial rape should be legal, fuck off
@@zv8291 what the fuck
@@zv8291 I say why a thing existed and suggested that it may have also been the reason why things that don't make sense to us now may have been practiced back then. Suddenly I'm advocating it and adding some sort of military aspect to it?
no
Was curious that malicious false accusations made by now anonymous women were not discussed. There are many cases where women have made false accusations against men and these have been shown to be so in courts of law. Yet the penalty for trying to jail a man for 10 years, even when the evidence has shown to be untrue, is nothing...Its has become a free, (anonymous), hit for women. A female weapon has always been the male reputation. Not all women are lovely, fair minded angels alas.
*"Academic Feminism"* is an oxymoron.
Wonderful insightful talk, lads.
The outrage mobs will never get to the end of a video like this. (Yet endorse grooming gangs.)
Thank you, Luke for speaking on this topic so thoroughly and intelligently. It helps rape victims tremendously. Many forget that most women don't "ask for it" because of what they wear. I know someone who had the COVID virus, was sniffling uncontrollably & wore a fat puffy jacket the night she was raped in her own home. Her drink was spiked & it then paralyzed her, and she was raped violently. The most shocking but not surprising fact was that it was an old friend who raped her. She reported him to the police after she recovered, but he was never arrested. Many rapes go unsolved, and victim continue to live in fear of encountering their assailants again.
That was stressful just listening to that ~~ the more you get to know the less you find that you understand~~~ this poor guy has to make so much distinction and definition right off the bat. I lost a telomere or two trying to follow everything... :(
So much obfuscation. Politicization of feminism has really made so much so vague. There are so many factors, and one side wants evidence and a proper investigation.
Can you explain a time when feminism wasn’t political?
Llove the fact the guest acknowledged the fact that only men can commit rape, and not women, so the UK has a law that actively discriminates on the grounds of sex, and actively turns a blind eye to this blatant hypocrisy.
Picture a law being passed that only affected a certain group of people ie. people of colour or race. It would be quite rightly pointed out that this is a breach of human rights and discriminatory in nature and a change to the law would take place.
Switched off when he said rape is about power violence and nothing to do with sex. What a soy boy
Its obvious - police time is better spent on "wrong thought" - that's where we should place our bucks (oops pun there)
fucking twitter police are twits
New title: Criminal Lawyer and 2 comedians spend an hour trying to avoid talking about Rotherham, Rotchdale and Oxford.
Why did nobody speak about the problem of false accusations ?
Because this is a discussion about the myths about rape not false accusation
On the subject of Clothing - there is a point that I think has been glossed over as to why asking women to dress moderately may have a preventative measure.
Assume the attitude of a Predator, If you are going out with the intention of either raping or committing sexual assault - there are a myriad of potential victims/targets to choose from.
How does a Predator make their selection? For some (Certain Serial Killers were notorious for this) there are certain attributes that they look for, which is crucial in fulfilling whatever desire they have.
For most Predators, however, you look for the easiest target - the small, the slight, the alone, the drunk and yes, the provocatively dressed. To that end, when I was a younger Man and went out on the town to pubs, clubs etc. There were, on occasion, ladies whose choice of dress could be described as '3 conveniently placed strips of fabric' - Certainly provocative and certainly eye-catching (and I enjoyed every minute of it) - If we assume to the role of a Predator, then that would be a factor that might sway a decision to go for the person and not the person with multiple layers of clothing in the way.
Now, I want to add a caveat here - even if a persons attire is a causal factor in them getting attacked, and even if we then say that it might be an idea for people not to dress/act in a certain way, it in no way diminishes the culpability of the attacker.
But where is the evidence to back up these claims? How do know what goes on in the mind of a predator/rapist?
@@SOLXXX41 Humans are by nature a highly social, predatory pack animal. We all have that little spark within us, some of us are just more honest about it.
As for evidence - I think you can make a fairly solid anthropological argument by looking at various cultures and then comparing attitudes towards sex, clothing, morality and how those intertwine.
@@MajesticDemonLord Maybe, but can you provide a case study to support your claims?
@@SOLXXX41 such a case study is unlikely to exist given the biases in both academia in general and specifically in the fields that look into these issues.
with all due respect, beautiful women will look so no matter what they wear, so we should all wear burkas?????
i you count the prison population (at least in the US ) men are 2.3 times more than woman