Ep 159 - Slavic Mythology With Leszek Gardela
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 พ.ย. 2024
- In this week's episode, Dan is joined by Leszek Gardela to discuss some of the Slavic Myths and how they may relate to Nordic Mythology. This episode features a lot of show and tell!
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Much needed! I have (luckily) much Slavic, Germanic and Scandinavian roots, and the Slavic story is not talked about as much.
🖤🖤🖤
I hope into the future the knowledge of slavic mythology continues to make its way into the English world. So many of us have our ancestral history there but have lost our connection to slavik language and with it all of the rich folklore
Me too, I am from Philadelphia (currently live near Atlanta, Ga)and we have a pretty large Slavic population- both first generation and several generation American- of all Eastern countries- Russian, Polish, Ukrainian, Albanian, Romanian (including Gypsies), etc. But nobody outside the community ever really acknowledges them.
Most in the Slavic communities are either Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, or Jewish.
I've never heard of Slavic Paganism until recently, unless you count watching American Gods series, lol. But, no, I've never heard of the Old Ways spoken of by anyone Eastern European in my own family (Polish/Ukrainian Jewish) or others I knew, only hearing of Baba Yaga and Czernobog from pop culture media. I hope that changes.
Slavic culture can be just as colorful as any other culture, especially the music and dancing, which is some of the most athletic in the world (I mean look at the way the men get down low on the ground and then almost instantly pop up to high jumps!) Especially the Georgians, Ukrainians, and Russians.
This was such an enjoyable and insightful episode. From a fellow Slav - Slovak a big thank you to Dan and Leszek.
I could listen to Leszek for 6 hours straight.
He is interesting. As much as Slavic mythology is like any other of our true European beliefs. The Finnish, Slavic,Frisian and also Indian/Egyptian/IndoAmerican has some mutual similarities.
As a Polish woman of both parents hailing from Norway, I was always interested in the similarities between the cultures that grew together for centuries! Great Podcast
Fantastic episode! I am so proud that Dr Leszek is my countryman. His knowledge, insights and the way he is able to lecture is a pure joy to behold. I also love Dan's reactions to my native beliefs, rituals and deities. He seemed so shocked and fascinated by them it was just heartwarming to listen to. Love you guys! :)
Thank you so much. I love learning about new cultures and customs. It's amazing and I'm so lucky to he able to sit with Lezsek.
@@nordicmythologypodcast tbh I'd give up my left tit for the chance to have a conversation with this man. :D I'm exaggerating a little but only a little.
in the Serbian language, "svetovid-svetovit" has the meaning of God who sees everything and therefore has 4 faces. In Christianity today, the day of "svetovid" also remains, which is celebrated by Orthodox Serbs in the Balkans as Vidov-day on June 28.
Samo sto se on kod nas na Balkanu spominje kao Vid i zbog toga "Vidovdan". Pozdrav!
Световид - свети вид - видовдан, дан када је Сунце највише на небу и све се види..
@@lobytoy Sve je to lepo nego vam ja kazem kako se on pominje u nasim pesmama i spisima.
Najjače mi je to što crkva poreklo tog praznika elegantno gura pod tepih i prepravlja istoriju kako stigne
@@FaustNemesis Crkva je i u modernom dobu prestala da koristi srpski kalendar i pocela da koristi julijanski cime je stavila tacku na taj kalendar koji je narod prosto uz predvodnistvo crkve prestao da koristi ali realno gledano Sv. Sava je sacuvao neke stare obicaje maskirane u hriscanske kroz svetosavlje.
Love listening more on my ancestral mythology and traditions
Slavs actually never used sabers originally... Frist time Slavs saw a saber is when Avars came and started conquering their territories. Saber is made for slashing from horse, a way of fighting that is not usual for Slavs, but very much is for Avars. It is possible that they liked such a blade and took it for an aesthetic reason, but it is definitely not Slavic.
As someone who absolutely love studying religion, folklore, mythology, the occult etc I have always love the unique and almost magical qualities of paganism and folk religion. So I used to (and still some what do) have a grudge against mass christianization and the proponents of it.
Wonderful conversation. I had never given the Scandinavian topic much time since I don’t know anyone with a love for this history. Thank you both. I’m glad I listened until the end.
The myth about Perun and Weles reminds me of Thor and Jormungandr in the story where Thor went fishing. Amazing episode by the way. I really enjoyed it 🙂
not Weles but Wolos, Wolos = Val-Tyr ( Wodan) the god of dead and fortune, the same name and functions, Perun=Thor, his name is borrowed from finnish tribes
@@kimrizo1938 This is an erroneous interpretation that needs desperate correction. Volos Norse equivalent is Njord. Vanaheim is within Jormungrund, the Norse underworld! and Njord leads the Vanir and Alfar to capture Asgard. Similarly Volos attempts to fight against Perun, just as Chyavana (Soma) fights against Indra (Perun) while the Ashvins are paralleled to Jarilo, fosterson of Veles, as Aengus is fosterson to Midir but Freyr is son of Njord. Perun is related to Baltic Perkunas, not Finnish Perkele.
I mean VOLOS/VELES ( Slavic/Baltic) is a god of the dead and fortune is the equivalent of VALTYR/WODAN , VAL/VOL/VEL is dead@@LugusmaposUidugeni
@@kimrizo1938 The Baltic equivalent is Velines/Velnias. Odin is not the god of the dead, that would be Mimir and there is no god of fortune as that term is too abstract. Even though there is a possible etymology between Volos-Veles and the Norse word Valr and one of the epithets of Valtyr (Odin) this doesn't make them similar. If you analyze the myths more closely, Njord is the proper equivalent. Njord is the god who leads the Vanir to invade Asgard (Vanaheim is located in the Underworld) as Veles is a chthonic deity. The only contrast is that Veles loses the battle against Perun, who is a celestial deity (Asgard and the Aesir are located in Asgard, the heavens and Valholl is in Asgard).
The Vedic equivalent of Veles is Chyavana-Soma. Chyavana (Veles) and the Ashvins (Jarilo) confront Indra (Perun) as the Ashvins want to partake in the soma sacrifice. However, Veles loses in the Slavic comparison. Odin is Rudra and Agni and Veles is Chyavana-Soma. Odin is known to divide the sky-earth unity (Ymir) while Veles is a chthonic deity as Njord is, Dionysus, Welsh Arawn, and Irish Midir are.
@@LugusmaposUidugeni Where are you seeing Njordr leading the vanir against the Aesir in Norse sources?
great interview, really interesting
Really love that you did not interrupt and let him talk. Great podcast.
One of the most interesting things about studying Christian theology. Is observing how it was changed to be more easily understood by the people it was being brought to. So things like heaven, earth, and hell on a world axis. Is a very prominent feature in European Christianity. However, in observing the original text it’s not actually specified to what degree any of those places exist, or how they are arranged.
Thank you for the interesting information. Maybe the duality in the Slavic mythology has an influance f 1:20:32 rom the Zooastric. That is if the hypothesis of slavs coming from the Eurasian steppe, is serious.
Well done Leszek. Thanks Dan, for the platform. The Zbrucz idol's "hat" seems very penile-suggestive, with the overall impression of an erect phallus. The spur seems fragile and therefore probably ceremonial. The elaborate imagery is lost if it is covered in mud. The bells are to draw attention, so it's meant to be worn before a crowd to announce status, perhaps guards of a leader on parade. The critters on top seem more like rams than cattle, but I'm not sure what cattle breeds looked like in the era of these spurs use. Elaborate riding gear may have also arrived with nomad mercenaries, since nomads love gaudy personal display, since they don't have architecture to project state power symbolism with.
very interesting listeng to this
Has anyone attempted a copy of the statue with a reconstruction of what it may have originally looked like. I know it would have to have a lot of conjecture but it would be an interesting piece to make
As far as I know there were no professional reconstruction attempts but there are a lot of fan made replicas circulating around Poland. Besides the statue itself is in really good condition. I've seen it with my own eyes in the museum and it's a sight to behold. Like Dr Leszek said it has its own room with cool set up and ambient music olaying in the background.
this was great
Pre-Israelite myth also has the world in water, only on the back of a giant turtle. They also believed that the sky was more of this water. I wonder if the water myth goes back to Proto-Indo-European days.
Very interesting. I am Sloven. Slavs seems as european nordamerican indians.
Persians would take an empty chariot drawn by a white horse for Ahura Mazda. I think I've heard of other Indo Europeans doing this, maybe the Greeks.
It's not ancestry "if you like" it IS ancestral we share common ancestry and are not just a linguistical group we are also blood related
Did Slavic pagans have any notion of infinite realities in there cosmology like in ancient vedism because I know the two religions are related
Slavic people received their writing system (glagolitic and Cyrillic) from Greek Christians as they spread Christianity. So a lot of those pagan beliefs is lost.
@@myhandlehasbeenmishandled yeah the question is basically asking if they had panentheism which is somewhat unlikely but not impossible given the unformalized nature of pre christian slavic religon though its likely they had pantheistic tendencies similar to balts with concepts of dievas/rod which is not too different from other indo European peoples
Yes we did of sorts
time stamps please...
The God with no feet is a sky god so no feet on the ground &Goddess holding the horn with mother &child beneath maybe?
Slava Rodu, slava precima!
The erected pole of many cultures. Svantevit sounds like Swedish name Svante and White. Also remind of Ukko. Odhinn and so one
what if the decorations are their because they looked nice
The reason there's so much about the vikings and not much about the slavs or my people the celts and the way these groups are portrayed largely comes down to the way the authors themselves ethnically identified themselves as being descended of anglo-saxons and vikings therefore they elevate the "vikings" to a near godlike status while talking very little about the lands where they came from they hardly mention what was going on in the countries the vikings came from only what they were doing in europe at that time. So the reason that the vikings are seen this way is more ethnic and political than historical.
In poland is the slavic Mythologie in hype
The whole thing about Veles and Perun opposing each other is a fabrication. The only recorded opposition we know of is that of Chernobog and the "other god" (probably Svantevit). And BOTH were worshipped and given sacrifices to. Triglav is not a god of ONLY underworld - he controls all 3 worlds. This whole idea of him being solely chtonic comes from speculations on Zbruch pillar
I like the info. But as a Slav myself, I'm of an opinion that a lot of Slavic info on beliefs and achievements are misinterpreted, embellished, and made up. I feel that pan slavicists and Slavic nationalists have made up some stuff. Viking ships are still found at the bottom of seas and lakes. Compared to Viking archeological finds there is very little such Slavic finds. For one, Scandinavian/Germanic people have been in Europe far longer. They had established their control and learned to write long before Slavic people. Long before spread of Christianity. Church couldn't just sweep Germanic/Scandinavian culture under a rug. Slavic people didn't have such opportunity. East Orthodox Church and Ottoman Muslims have done their number on Slavic traditions.
Scandinavian and Germanic people are not the same. The Scandinavian mythology and material culture is very young compare to continental, and Slavic as well. As for writing, we will never find out how Christianity destroyed the world heritage since the beginning of its spreading everywhere: first in Armenia, then for every country we know today. That's why we know nothing about cultures of Celts, Goths , Galls, Slavs, the culture of both Americas, Asia, etc. Every European royal dynasty "starts" with Christian era like it was empty land before.
It's like to add, the Catholic Church and those that rules changed and confused our old ways and beliefs. So Slavic mythology could remain "Myth".
All these people worshipped similar deities, but different names or symbolics. And this was made during centuries long before the Judeochristian destruction came around Europe.
37:00 god clearly rides a horse and it could be depiction of a warrior .and you can see 2 woman and 2 man depictions
Czech-American here .
+1
h ave you seen the Nunburnholme cross near Pocklington , Yorkshire, anglo saxon, viking carvings, thought to depict king Athelstan, a real surprise this church of ST james. key holder lives over road.
Zbruch idol cannot be Svantevit. On a correct illustration (or photo) you can see that two upper sides are also male and female (two sides have breasts which are not shown on the illustration you found). And if that is not enough for a doubt - all four sides have their own hands and feet, while Svantevit has only One body (from descriptions).
This guy not that great. Starts up with "I'm gonna talk about Western Slavs", and starts up with Ukrainian idol, the only connection to Poland having the fact it is in Polish museum. What about two headed idol FROM POLAND (found at Fischerinsel)?
Speaking of four sided pillar from Zbruch, smaller version of it was found in Wolyn, and also called Svantevit, however it is more plausible.
As for written resource....oh gods...seriously? No Nordic resources? What about Knytlinga Saga? No recorded accounts about Western Slavic rituals and mythology? What about ones from Otton Von Bamburgs chronicles?
Imagine someone performing rituals and praying without even giving their 100 percent to know what they are doing...
Slavic people were in the forests on land. Often far from the sea..
Not true. But that what German version of european history makes you to think.
40:01 it's a child lol. it's behind a women
39:05 looks like a child
90% jibber jabber 10% actual information disappointed
Ha. Ok