Interesting - I collect Old Cookbooks (and cocktail manuals, distilling guides, and brewing manuals)with a collection that ranges from the mid-1600s to 1950. Many of the pre 1850s cookbooks have sections on brewing, and saving / harvesting yeast - the authors of those books would scoff at our obsession with 'stressed out' yeast. I mostly play it safe, because 'stressed yeast' gets so much conversation time at the brew club meetings and during judging... but I know deep in my brain that yeast is much hardier than brewers give it credit for, and even 40 cells pitched into a batch of wort will give good if not great results. (for those who don't understand hyperbole - that was a hyperbolic statement - noun [mass noun] exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally)
And healthy yeast could have a propagation power over disabled cells. Cask ale uses repitched crop all the time in a professional environment. I also think we over-think yeast like it's supposed to be some kind of unattainable panacea. Then there's the delta between storage temperature and pitch temperature. That 'shock' has an effect as well. Getting a low pitch temperature can be highly costly for commercial applications.
It is hilarious that you posted this this week. I made a rice lager with noble hops and after listening this week to Q&A, decided I would try 34/70 at 65F. My Ground water only gets beer to 80F where I live so I said ah, whatever, and pitched. Two competing variables! I’m a rebel I guess! My beer is in your hands, Don’t smite me beer gods. Ah! lol
I'm very happy about the last result, since I have the exact same setup as the warm pitch of Munich Helles fermenting just now. Albeit under pressure, so yet another variable in the mix :)
I have an Irish Ale package in my small fridge that expanded after a power failure, but I wasn't ready to use it. So for 'reasons' it has been in my fridge expanded for around 7 months. I was concerned, but will use as usual (starter).
Wow so timely! Just had a stuck fermentation with London Ale 1028 in an IPA. Which I fermented at a low 62F. Trying to unstick with Voss Kveik at 72F, the high for 1028 and low range for the Voss. Tricky.
I have no idea what my starter temperature is. Somewhere between 15-25c depending on the season? Never had an issue, even with competition winners. I think the key is to get it in asap rather than waiting a couple hours to cool or warm up my wort.
I always store my yeast (wet or dry) in the fridge before use. I almost always do a starter from wet yeast and leave that at room temp until it is showing signs of completing. Then I cold crash it so I have a distinct yeast pancake at the bottom of the flask. makes it easier to decant the spent liquid and pitch the (swirled up) yeast. Every lager I have ever brewed has received its yeast at around 20ºc. It only takes a few hours for the beer to fall to correct fermentation temp (10 or 11ºc) in the brewfridge and I've never noticed any off flavours. The first result really surprised me. I consider warm storage for yeast quite abusive!
While the experiment is as usual very cool & useful I see some dangerous conclusion drawn here - extrapolating those result to yeast in general. One thing I learned in 12 years of HB is that there are very few generic rules you can apply to yeast. The individual strains can differ significantly. So I would put an errata to the experiment: 1. "storage temp does seem to impact A09 Imperial Yeast strain" 2. "starter temp. doesn't seem to impact A15 Imperial Yeast strain" 3. "pitching temp. does seem to impact S-23 Fermentis yeast strain" Please be careful with generalizing those conclusion to other yeast strains - if you are using a different strain I recommend testing on your own before following the conclusions from the video.
Storage temp and starter temp are things that are impacted a lot by the number of cells you're starting with. 200b cells in an Imperial pack is different to the 100b in White labs, and why you'd be more cautious about short term storage temps and starters. After a long time, they'll come even, where both will go bad, but maybe it's worth ordering the 200b cell packs when they're being shipped, and buying the 100b packs in store.
Interesting - I collect Old Cookbooks (and cocktail manuals, distilling guides, and brewing manuals)with a collection that ranges from the mid-1600s to 1950. Many of the pre 1850s cookbooks have sections on brewing, and saving / harvesting yeast - the authors of those books would scoff at our obsession with 'stressed out' yeast.
I mostly play it safe, because 'stressed yeast' gets so much conversation time at the brew club meetings and during judging... but I know deep in my brain that yeast is much hardier than brewers give it credit for, and even 40 cells pitched into a batch of wort will give good if not great results.
(for those who don't understand hyperbole - that was a hyperbolic statement - noun [mass noun] exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally)
And healthy yeast could have a propagation power over disabled cells. Cask ale uses repitched crop all the time in a professional environment. I also think we over-think yeast like it's supposed to be some kind of unattainable panacea. Then there's the delta between storage temperature and pitch temperature. That 'shock' has an effect as well. Getting a low pitch temperature can be highly costly for commercial applications.
34/70 pitched at ~25C at 25PSI works like a treat. Usually at FG within 5 days, bump to 27C for a couple of days to let it clean up.
It is hilarious that you posted this this week. I made a rice lager with noble hops and after listening this week to Q&A, decided I would try 34/70 at 65F. My Ground water only gets beer to 80F where I live so I said ah, whatever, and pitched. Two competing variables! I’m a rebel I guess! My beer is in your hands, Don’t smite me beer gods. Ah! lol
Nice to see some significant experiments. Ive definitely done the "meh, close enough" pitch temp a few times.
This is fascinating information - it reinforces the old adage - don't worry, just brew.
I'm very happy about the last result, since I have the exact same setup as the warm pitch of Munich Helles fermenting just now. Albeit under pressure, so yet another variable in the mix :)
I have an Irish Ale package in my small fridge that expanded after a power failure, but I wasn't ready to use it. So for 'reasons' it has been in my fridge expanded for around 7 months. I was concerned, but will use as usual (starter).
Wow so timely! Just had a stuck fermentation with London Ale 1028 in an IPA. Which I fermented at a low 62F. Trying to unstick with Voss Kveik at 72F, the high for 1028 and low range for the Voss. Tricky.
I'm curious on whether stratification plays an effect when splitting a batch. Is the first draw really the same as the second? Maybe a test?
What does Maltodextrin do to the beer, an experiment would be good see the comparison:-)
I have no idea what my starter temperature is. Somewhere between 15-25c depending on the season? Never had an issue, even with competition winners. I think the key is to get it in asap rather than waiting a couple hours to cool or warm up my wort.
I always store my yeast (wet or dry) in the fridge before use. I almost always do a starter from wet yeast and leave that at room temp until it is showing signs of completing. Then I cold crash it so I have a distinct yeast pancake at the bottom of the flask. makes it easier to decant the spent liquid and pitch the (swirled up) yeast. Every lager I have ever brewed has received its yeast at around 20ºc. It only takes a few hours for the beer to fall to correct fermentation temp (10 or 11ºc) in the brewfridge and I've never noticed any off flavours. The first result really surprised me. I consider warm storage for yeast quite abusive!
While the experiment is as usual very cool & useful I see some dangerous conclusion drawn here - extrapolating those result to yeast in general. One thing I learned in 12 years of HB is that there are very few generic rules you can apply to yeast. The individual strains can differ significantly. So I would put an errata to the experiment:
1. "storage temp does seem to impact A09 Imperial Yeast strain"
2. "starter temp. doesn't seem to impact A15 Imperial Yeast strain"
3. "pitching temp. does seem to impact S-23 Fermentis yeast strain"
Please be careful with generalizing those conclusion to other yeast strains - if you are using a different strain I recommend testing on your own before following the conclusions from the video.
What about dry yeast temperatures for storage?
I keep my dry yeast in the freezer. Since I brew 1 gallon batches I usually get 3 batches from an 11g pack. I hydrate the yeast before pitching.
Storage temp and starter temp are things that are impacted a lot by the number of cells you're starting with. 200b cells in an Imperial pack is different to the 100b in White labs, and why you'd be more cautious about short term storage temps and starters. After a long time, they'll come even, where both will go bad, but maybe it's worth ordering the 200b cell packs when they're being shipped, and buying the 100b packs in store.
The packs in the store got shipped the same way from the manufacturer and distributor as the packs coming to our house...
@@955miroexactly
Revived a 4 year expired Nottingham pack to finish off a cider that stalled at 1.009