Shout out to Alec Watson at the Technology Connections TH-cam channel who was the first to bring this issue to my attention. And thank you CR for shining your light on this issue. I think it's critical that automakers and regulators pay attention to this and take action ASAP.
Indeed, it's good that Alec made the video, raised awareness and has gotten the necessary attention with it to have the issue addressed. And let's hope that manufacturers have learned their lesson as according to the written CR article, this isn't the first time, but the i3 also has had this issue in the past. I'm an Ioniq 6 owner myself, in Europe though, and fortunately, my car has the expected behavior, but I was concerned for the first few days after that video.
Very strange that the article came out a few weeks after the video and this over a month later and they don't acknowledge it. The CR article seems too coincidental to not have been influenced by it. th-cam.com/video/U0YW7x9U5TQ/w-d-xo.html
@@LonceyMills What is your proof that CR was informed that was the source of the question? Also, if Alec noticed it, how did you arrive at certainty that CR didn't also, in the course of evaluating vehicles also arrive at this conclusion?
I was disappointed that the article on CR’s website did not show what the other EVs did, only highlighted the Hyundai/Kia/Genesis and Mercedes EVs. And some PHEVs also have aggressive One-Pedal modes which will bring them to a stop, these should be tested as well. Keep up the good work!
Yeah. Well, I did a little research on that one, since I have a Model 3 and wondered about that. Apparently, the brake lights come on just fine with the Tesla. I think CR does itself a disfavor for not uttering the name Tesla, ever, regardless of their feelings about you-know-who. I might have the same feelings about you-know-musk . . . but I bought a Tesla for a variety of reasons, primarily instant access to the Supercharger network. No deals-in-the-making, no converters involved, just a right-now way to conveniently charge your car at thousands of locations.@@altosack
Wow! A friend's Kia EV6 was rear ended at a traffic light. I wonder if it was a factor. When I was a young knucklehead, I used to try to stop by downshifting my VW Bug for fun. Thanks CR for shining a break light on this.
I've come close to rear ending at least a couple teslas (my parents as well) because they decelerate a lot without turning on their brake lights. I don't know if CR found anything with Teslas not putting their brake lights on, but I've certainly delt with situations where a tesla in front of me is slowing down at a quite significant rate, without their brake lights turning on. Also I'm glad AEB can detect slowing cars whether their brake lights are on or off. It has warned me a couple times about a Tesla slowing down in front of me, without brake lights on.
@@nickbien Tesla lights in general are too small/dim. I was on I-66 a couple months ago during a bad thunderstorm. There was a Tesla in the line of traffic and it took real focus to not lose it because they kept changing lanes, essentially asking to be hit. They had their lights on, but they were so small/dim it disappeared between wiper swipes. Not good with a dark grey vehicle that is essentially the same color as a wet road.
Interesting, my Subaru Forester, has brake light indicators in the cabin... so that I know when the brake lights are on, and when they aren't. I recommend this for all cars. :)
Preferably via fiberoptics visible in the rear-view mirror like old Cadillacs from the '70s-90s, to give an indication of the actual function of each brake light.
Long before EVs, I thought it would be so helpful if cars had "status" lights in the back....green light for when the car is accelerating or maintaining constant speed/using cruise control. A yellow light would indicate coasting/slowing. And red lights would indicate traditional braking.
You beat me to it, I also thought before EV's that it would be nice to have a yellow light when taking you foot off the gas pedal to show you're slowing and maybe about to apply the brakes. Also thought of blinking brake lights instead of yellow but that may be misunderstand as someone using the hazard lights. Never thought of having a green light, but that's not a bad idea either. Smart thinking (I think).
@@samconnecticut1485 I'd also like to see traffic lights offer the same courtesy, to tell you how much time is left on the green. That way, we give drivers more information and clear the dilemma zone. Paint a lateral yellow line on the road, and if you are before that yellow line, then slow down for a yellow. If you are after that yellow line, speed up for a yellow.
@@carultchbreaking distances change with speed so the arbitrary distance of that line on pavement is difficult to judge and may present a liability problem for municipalities in case of accidents caused by trying to "beat the red" while driving below the speed limit
I own a Tesla Model 3. I understand that the brake lights illuminate at .11 G’s of deceleration. You can also see if your brake lights are on by looking at the avatar of the car on the screen.
I was driving behind the new regular chevy bolt and noticed it was slowing down without any brake lights coming on. I immediately knew it was due to regen braking but the average driver would not. I totally agree this is an urgent issue that needs to get remedied quickly by automakers.
If I'm using ACC, Adaptive Cruise Control, in my '19 Civic and the car in front of me slows down my brake lights DO come on to show the drivers behind me that I am slowing down. Seems that it's only a Hyundai, Kia, Mercedes issue.
That is the same basic language that both Hyundai and Kia used in defense of not having immobilizers on certain vehicle years, that are being stolen at a very high rate, because they have no immobilizers. However, it doesn't really hold water. Because other vehicles by other manufacturers, made in those same prospective years, all had immobilizes. In fact, I had driven my relatives 2014 sonata, and it had an immobilizer.
Thank you for probably the most important CR segment addressing existing public safety issues at large. The only way you can make it even more informative is to list all manufacturers' models having the same problem - not just 2! I was mortified to see in the rear view mirror a car nearly rear ending me when test driving An EV earlier last year! The salesman next to me in front passenger seat, demonstrated the different regeneration braking levels using paddle shifter on the steering wheel with my foot off accelerator pedal while "coasting" at 40 MPH. Deceleration G force at level B was equal to moderately strong breaking and no brake light went on! This was at nighttime so when using brake pedal passenger cabin would get a red glow, that couldn't be missed. I asked him if he realized it and he said: "the driver behind needs to pay attention". What could he say? That the car he was hoping to sell me was fundamentally unsafe for the public on the road?
One of the things I don't understand is why these companies change the behavior to be less safe compared to what is required in, for example, the European market. You already have the software, the algorithms, everything is present and yet someone says: let's make a different set of settings for the North American market where we don't have to turn on the brake lights so often... what is going through the minds of those people when they decide something stupid like that?
Drivers are still responsible for being aware of the road and maintaining safe distance from other vehicles on the road. But in the age of very distracted, bad drivers probably a Good idea for their brake lights to activate if 1peddle brake rates passes a threshold 🚙 🚨🚗🚔
As per CR: The European Union has a regulation that requires EVs to illuminate their brake lights anytime the regenerative-braking system’s deceleration rate exceeds 1.3 meters per second squared, or about 0.13 g. Sounds like a standard that should be implemented in the US.
The brake lights should be disassociated from the brake pedal. I converted an old car to electric. It has regen braking and I rarely touch the brake pedal. I put in a mercury tilt switch that simply illuminates the brake lights when the car slows for any reason. Works a treat and I don't have to worry about people hitting me from behind. Just stunned car manufacturers don't do this - and not *just* for EVs.
That's a pretty neat solution but I feel like implementing a method that relies on a toxic chemical that's hard to clean if it were damaged may be the thing that they use as for a reason why they haven't
Good to cover this topic. One pedal driving just means it can come to a complete stop just by letting off on the accelerator pedal. Even cars without one pedal driving, or not operating in that mode, can slow down quickly just from regenerative braking. So, any rule making should not hinge on one pedal driving.
Just be aware, this is no diff from ice vehicles or manual trans vehicles or motorcycles, W/O brake lights not igniting until the physical brakes are actuated. BE ALERT & AWARE AS A HUMAN DRIVER!
CR was late in highlighting this safety concern ., you were basically recommended all these car before someone else pointed out this safety concerns ,not showing brakes light while barking is also a ticketing offense.
Interesting that these companies didn't think of this. Tesla had this figured out long ago with a g-sensor responsible for turning the brake lights on. My Model 3 brake lights come on when the vehicle is aggressively slowing down. When just gradually slowing down similar to a gas car coasting and slowing, they will not illuminate.
So many ICE cars now have a brake hold switch. Suppose you are stopped at a light, and you switch on brake hold, but remove your foot from the brake pedal. Do the brake lights stay on?
If there won't be a law mandating the brake lights, insurance company should just price these cars out to force the customers to stop buying these garbage. I don't want to keep a list of cars in my mind just to be safer in these marginal situations and I don't want to share the roads with these moving hazards. The same reason the chevy bolt current gen is one of the cars that I absolutely loathe because of its unconventional position of braking lights.
I always wondered about this, and now I know. I can't believe they even released EV cars with such an obvious safety flaw. Not only that but it possibly puts owners in a liable position in accidents even ones that wouldn't otherwise be their fault.
Very good analysis but in regards to Mercedes; essentially all Mercedes models have an auto hold function, when the car is at a stoplight and you step off the brake the brake lights are off. Given that virtually all Mercedes models behave that way and have so for many years without any accidents associated with the feature, the chances that Mercedes will address this concern are virtually zero.
If a motor vehicles brake light does not illuminate when brakes are applied....... An officer can issue a repair order for said vehicle in order to make said vehicle compliant with vehicle safety standards.....The information in this video does equate to vehicle safety standards..... Ok .....Duly noted.
I know older BMW X5 even illuminates brake lights when the car slows down too much without brake pedal, though I think it was when reducing the speed with cruise control adjustment. It’s crazy regen don’t turn the lights on…
Are brake lights expected engine braking downhill too? People see what they want to see, if they're only focused on going (we're driving on a road, that should be the only objective) so they'll see any venue to keep going, like not stopping, maintaining momentum or switching lanes. People rear end cars and run red lights because they see the green light or see their path ahead of the, despite to red light. Cars are better off with automatic emergency braking sensing the stopped car than pretending like drivers are actually focused on lights or stationary cars.
The Bolt did when I had it, coming to a stop and hold but then turn the brake lights back off. So often I would hold the brake pedal unnecessarily so some dimwit behind me wouldn't rear end me.
The complete stop is a concern, but... Down shifting on on traditional transmissions does not induce brake lights. I may not have my brakes, on a manual transmission, activated on level grade while sitting still.
If I need to slow down any faster than the natural rate of coasting to avoid crashing in to you, I damn well better see your brake lights come on. I don't care what your car does to slow itself down. If it is doing anything to actively slow down, the brake lights should illuminate.
This is really a disturbing situation and I applaud CR for investigating and establishing communication with the auto companies and regulatory authorities for a solution. On a related topic, some vehicles have an "auto hold" feature that allows the driver to lift off the brake pedal when the car is stopped at a traffic signal or in traffic. When that occurs, do the brake lamps remain illuminated even though the brake pedal is not being pressed? If not, it would seem that the same potentially dangerous situation would exist as drivers approaching from the rear might not realize that the car ahead is actually stopped.
I used to use the Auto Hold feature in my '22 BMW 330e quite a lot; in that car, the brake lights would stay illuminated when my foot was off the brake pedal when stopped.
How common is it for manual transmission drivers to operate in this manner? One pedal driving is the default with EVs, it's a really comfortable way to drive. Everybody but Hyundai gets this right it's not that hard.
@@joshuarosen465 Literally every person who's ever driven a manual transmission vehicle does this. It saves wear and tear on your brakes. Truckers do this. It's called Jake Braking.
Got pulled over once for my brake lights being burnt out. They were fine…I had a hard time getting the officer to believe that a vehicle with a standard transmission can be slowed without using the brakes by down shifting! 😂
I had issues with Tesla drivers e breaking even at 3 car lengths it difficult to gauge at dusk or dawn which is when I leaving or coming home from work. I drove a truck slowly and I’ve had many ev,s cut in front of me and e brake causing difficulty judging their speed. My advantage is in a truck I look at the cars ahead.
What about down shifting with a manual transmission? I can almost come to a complete stop when down shifting and I’ve never heard of this being a problem in the past. Also in some automatic cars you can manually down shift in sport mode also. Maybe people needs to be a little more aware of surroundings.
If your car slows down any faster than the natural rate of passive slow-down, it should be required to illuminate the brake lights. If your car subtracts energy from the kinetic + potential energy of the car, it should illuminate the brake lights. The reason for the slow down should not matter. We need to communicate effectively with the driver behind us.
@@cardude990 What standard does Tesla follow for slow-down rates on an uphill, and steady-regen on a downhill? Does Tesla illuminate the brake lights if an uphill is the reason for a slow-down? Does it illuminate the brake lights if you regen to maintain a steady speed on a downhill?
Are there laws stating that gas cars must illuminate brake lights when downshifting to engine brake? Sometimes you do a lot of downshifting in the twisties to slow down before a turn. Why is this just now an issue?
It is now an issue, because it happens a lot more that people use other means than a brake to slow down. A very select few of drivers even knew how to slow down by down-shifting, and it was less common that it would cause an accident. If I need to slow down any faster than the natural rate of coasting, to avoid crashing in to you, I damn well better see your brake lights come on. I don't care what the mechanics of your car's slow down rate are. Failing to give the driver behind you the information they need to avoid crashing in to you, should not be the cause of an accident.
This video briefly mentions EU rules at the end. The Technology Connections YT video that first discussed this issue also reviewed the EU rules and found that, unlike the U.S. rules that are silent on this issue, the EU rules were worse in that they explicitly forbid the activation of brake lights when the brakes aren't pressed. Consumer Reports might want to revisit the EU rules for brake lights.
I don’t understand why the brake pedal alone can’t be used for regen braking. Seems to me one pedal driving is a gimmick. The brake pedal, depending on how you use it could easily be used for regen braking. Why do people have to learn a whole new method of driving when the manufacturers should be adapting the system we’ve been using for well over a century to a regen braking system. If you press lightly on the brake pedal, it can use the regen system to slow the car. If you press firmly, the regen system should just respond more aggressively, like the the accelerator and brakes always have. It’s only the system that’s changed, but the method should remain the same.
The brake pedal does provide regenerative braking and transitions to normal braking when regen is exceeded, exactly as you foolishly described after spouting off nonsense. Nobody "has to learn" (perish the thought of having to learn something new!) to use 1 pedal mode. Imagine being so upset over having to learn something? What a tough life.
I think the idea is that if you want to slow down at a rate that regen can handle, that you use the one-pedal driving to do so. If for some reason, you need to slow down faster than that, the service brakes are available for a much harder rate of stopping, if you need to step on the brakes.
Yeah we’ve known about the no brake light at a stop issue with the Mini SE for over a year. Maybe it’s the German way? It’s not a big deal as long as you’re conscious of it.
Cars have always been able to decelerate without the use of the brake pedal. This is not an issue exclusive to EVs. Vehicles with auto-hold, do the brake lights stay on after the driver takes their for of the brake pedal and the car is sitting there in drive and not moving? Hill-brake-assist, does the brake light stay on after taking the foot off the brake pedal and the car isn't moving?
Very good research and findings. I’m glad this is limited to the Hyundai Motor Group’s cars and Mercedes in the latter scenario. I had an Ioniq 5, and it’s a great car. I never really got into iPedal aka one pedal driving. Knowing that using the brakes does first provide regen and only then actually activate the brakes, meant I could drive a lot more smoothly than the jerkiness of one pedal driving (which I was first introduced to in a 2020 Tesla Model Y that I sold due to excessive phantom braking). I believe Hyundai Motor Group will fix this, but I don’t think they’ll do so very quickly. Meanwhile, I ultimately traded my Ionic 5 in for a 2019 Audi e-tron, so I’m going to try to find out if that car shows it’s brake lights properly now to make sure I’m safe.
My boss drives his chevy spark in D1 low, which regenerates aggressively... I feel. After I drove his, I asked him ..., "holy crap that is strong/aggressive, does your brake lights come on, when you let your foot off" and he said, "idk" I said he should be careful, especially during rain and snow, when someone following you might not know your coming to a stop. While he might not care, with an attitude of, it will be there fault. A permanent injury or death ... well that is way more life changing, then who is at fault.
Gee, when I drive my manual and brake with the clutch by downshifting, my brake lights do not come on. What’s the difference? And when I decelerate in 4th, my brake lights do not come on either. When I downshift my Automatic to engine brake, they do not come on.
Your ICE car should be held to the same standard. If I need to slow down any faster than the natural rate of coasting to avoid crashing in to you, I damn well better see your brake lights come on. Anything else is a lawsuit waiting to happen. I don't care if you are downshifting, engine braking, using the emergency brake, or regenerating.
Break light are not on while stationary or waiting in traffic in the Mercedes and several newer car because of auto hold function as car is put in park.
"Once you see that word pop up, you can safely remove your foot from the brake while the car keeps the brakes engaged and the brake lights illuminated." Notice the spelling of the third-to-last word. Straight from Mercedes. Literally *zero* vehicles put your vehicle into park with auto hold.
Not so with my BMW. When using Auto Hold, the brake lights remain illuminated with the brake pedal released. As soon as you begin to accelerate, the brake lights turn off.
I see no reason why brake lights are not deployed when one pedal decelerating but, how is that different from down shifting with a manual transmission. Looks like another CR hit on BEVs.
If the car slows down any faster than the natural rate of coasting, it should need to illuminate its brake lights. If I'm behind you, I don't care what the mechanics of your slow-down rate is. If I have to step on my brakes to avoid crashing in to you, I better see your brake lights illuminated. The last thing we need is accidents because of failures to give drivers the information they need to avoid the accidents.
Downshift with a manual car, does the brake light turn on? Downshift with an automatic car, does the brake light turn on? For EVs, the brake light should not turn on as soon as you lift off the pedal but rather after a few seconds.
If I need to do anything other than coast naturally to avoid crashing in to you, I damn well better see your brake lights come on. I don't care what the reason for your slow-down is. Car manufacturers need to effectively communicate to other drivers.
Illumination of brake lights corresponding with significant deceleration is so simply logical and a duh, that a lack of activation if brake lights should lead to a lawsuit from the rear driver.
I drive a manual gearbox car and use gears to slow down; I'm pretty sure my break lights don't light up when doing this. Regen has been around forever, the Prius we had 20 years ago had it - we drove constantly in "B" mode. That said, it shouldn't be too hard to have a moving averaged froward direction accelerometer tied into the brake light system.
Thanks for your insight. My Kia Niro PHEV has one pedal driving and Adaptive Cruise Control. The cruise control will bring my car to a complete stop when the car ahead of me stops. I have no idea if my brake lights come on during the deceleration or the stop, or if a certain deceleration value triggers the light. Have you tested this on any of your cars? Thanks again for publicizing a very important safety issue.
My Forester has adaptive cruise. The car illustration in the IP shows the tail lights and they turn on with the brake lights the same as the door logo illuminates when a door is opened.
Ridiculous that CR could even shout out the TH-cam channel that brought this up first. Also it is a none issue if the following drive is actually paying attention and maintaining a safe following distance. Maybe CR should look into self driving technology. If the car is driving and get into an accident the it should be on the car manufacturer insurance at there liability because in fact the car was driving.
While deceleration rates make sense as a measurement for when brake lights come on, I think that there could be some weird corner cases while going up or down a hill. If the lights were based only on decelerations rates from an accelerometer, you could have them turn on when going up a hill without braking, or have them stay off while braking down a hill. Maybe use a braking force requirement relative to deceleration on a flat surface?
The brake lights won't (and should not) come on just from going up a hill because of deceleration. This is a phenomenon that is hard to describe/understand without driving the cars themselves. I highly recommend the Technology connections video on the subject that sparked this. In traditional vehicles, you press the gas to accelerate, the brake to slow down, and you can coast without pressing either. If you let off the gas, you will get a bit of idle power and creep forward. In EVs, you usually will get no creep and will only move when you press the accelerator. Gas means go, brake means slow, and you can sit still without your foot on the brake and not be moving. Should you have the brake lights come on at an intersection when you are stopped or in traffic if stopped when you aren't moving but aren't pressing the service brake? Right now that is not required by law. But most drivers, out of habit with ICE, rest their foot on the brake to keep a car from moving. One pedal doesn't require that and actually gets you out of that habit. Now the one pedal mode basically allows one to use the accelerator to control both the speeding up and the regen braking. It becomes more of a 'speed' pedal and less of an accelerator. If you press it halfway down you will moderayly accelerate to like 40-45 mph. If you let off the pedal and only have it 10% depressed, you will start to slow down pretty aggressively and will slow to say 15-20. You can do this very aggressively by adjusting the level of regen braking the system uses. As long as your foot is on the accelerator pedal in a Kia/Hyundai/genesis that isn't the new EV6 or the new Niro EV, you can slow down and come to a complete stop from 45mph in less than a 300-400 hundred yards without touching the brakes and without the brake lights coming on. Teslas don't do that, because they're programmed to monitor how fast a car is slowing down and turn on the brake lights. The new Chevy Bolt doesn't do that because the aggressive Regen braking on the steering wheel and the one pedal mode are programmed to turn on the brakes when the car is being slowed down by the electric drive Regen braking. This is a setting that Kia/Hyundai need to adjust because if you have iPedal you shouldn't be able to slow down the car and 'slam on' regen braking without the car behind you knowing what is happening.
@Quasarnova1, You can't go up a hill without "accelerating". If you brake while going down a hill, the car is "decelerating" as compared to any previous moment.
@@java97 If you use an accelerometer to determine when the car is braking, and you are using regenerative braking to maintain a steady speed going down a hill, the brake lights would fail to come on. I agree that the deceleration rate should be the standard at least for the flat road case, but indeed it should have some nuance to figure out exactly what needs to happen. The standard should be that any time you are SUBTRACTING energy from the car's mechanical energy, that the brake lights should illuminate. It shouldn't be that difficult to figure out when an EV is subtracting energy, whether it is by regen braking or standard braking.
Read Addendum 12-H: UN Regulation No. 13-H section 5.2.22.4 Electric regenerative braking systems as defined in paragraph 2.17. of this Regulation, which produce a retarding force upon release of the accelerator control, shall generate the signal mentioned above according to the following provisions: Vehicle decelerations Signal generation ≤ 0.7 m/s² The signal shall not be generated > 0.7 m/s² and ≤ 1.3 m/s² The signal may be generated > 1.3 m/s² The signal shall be generated
Problem of current regulation is discussed in this document: (IMMA) Proposal to harmonise stop lamp activation thresholds for regenerative braking in UN Regulation No. 78 with new provisions in UN Regulation No. 13-H
My Polestar2 brake lights come on when regenerative braking. I have to let off the go pedal a bit so gentle region braking doesn't make the brake lights constantly going on off on off. Then that would be just another thing for the anti EV crowd to bitch about. I don't remember people complaining about no brake lights when downshifting with a manual transmission back in the day. Oh wait, that's right, it's 2023 when everybody has to whine ABOUT EVERYTHING
That is a very annoying and dangerous issue which should be regulated by law. The electronics are there, all smartphones have a cheap sensor that detects changes in velocity, called accelerometer. I think that most EV:s have an accelerometer already built in. Can easily be implemented in other cars too. On a side note: Please try to differentiate more when you refer to confusable marks, like Hyundai (you pronounced it like "Hondæi"). I thought that you referred to the Honda until I saw the text combined with your pronunciation.
What a bunch of hc.... I have always driven aggressively using lower gears to slow down the car i/o using brakes. And have done this with manual and automatic transmissions.
I've never heard of this before. I wonder if the brake lights on Tesla vehicles works the same way. I could see where this could be a real safety issue, especially for drivers in the habit of tailgating or following too close to an EV in preparation for passing or during wet / winter driving conditions. Thank you for the video.
Cars without brake lights under regen braking should have never been cleared for the roads. That's negligence. Pretending that regen isn't just a new form of brake is ridiculous.
Are you describing a vehicle undergoing engine braking which has existed since the first moving vehicle existed? Spoiler: if you drive a manual you can slow way way down with no lights illuminating except one to let you know it's time to upshift.
I wish car companies were more willing to say, "Thanks for the feedback. We understand your concern." This refusal to admit that something might possibly be "wrong" with their cars simply because they technically follow the letter of the law, regardless of what might make practical sense is infuriating.
Why am I not surprised this only affects the South Korean brands? They are the same brands most frequently stolen because their cars lack a transponder in the key which makes them far easier to steal - despite the software fix that CR recently announced was deployed. It appears even today they cut corners sometimes even though it is not as frequent as they used to when they first sold cars. The fact they have no statement taking care of this possible safety concern says it all about their companies today - they still don't always put the customer first. Great evidence CR.
why did this take so long to raise a stink about, it's been going on for the two decades that hybrids have existed and I thought it was common knowledge
Shout out to Alec Watson at the Technology Connections TH-cam channel who was the first to bring this issue to my attention. And thank you CR for shining your light on this issue. I think it's critical that automakers and regulators pay attention to this and take action ASAP.
Yes, thank *you* for shouting out Technology Connections, which CR *did not* do in this video.
Indeed, it's good that Alec made the video, raised awareness and has gotten the necessary attention with it to have the issue addressed. And let's hope that manufacturers have learned their lesson as according to the written CR article, this isn't the first time, but the i3 also has had this issue in the past.
I'm an Ioniq 6 owner myself, in Europe though, and fortunately, my car has the expected behavior, but I was concerned for the first few days after that video.
Very strange that the article came out a few weeks after the video and this over a month later and they don't acknowledge it. The CR article seems too coincidental to not have been influenced by it. th-cam.com/video/U0YW7x9U5TQ/w-d-xo.html
@@LonceyMills What is your proof that CR was informed that was the source of the question?
Also, if Alec noticed it, how did you arrive at certainty that CR didn't also, in the course of evaluating vehicles also arrive at this conclusion?
The Simpsons did it first. Sorry, I meant to say The Technology Connections did it first, as usual.
Shoutout to @TechnologyConnections for doing a great video on this topic as well!
I was disappointed that the article on CR’s website did not show what the other EVs did, only highlighted the Hyundai/Kia/Genesis and Mercedes EVs. And some PHEVs also have aggressive One-Pedal modes which will bring them to a stop, these should be tested as well.
Keep up the good work!
They said all the other EVs they tested performed as expected.
As much as they can, they do _not_ want to enunciate “Tesla” unless it’s in a negative light.
Yeah. Well, I did a little research on that one, since I have a Model 3 and wondered about that. Apparently, the brake lights come on just fine with the Tesla. I think CR does itself a disfavor for not uttering the name Tesla, ever, regardless of their feelings about you-know-who. I might have the same feelings about you-know-musk . . . but I bought a Tesla for a variety of reasons, primarily instant access to the Supercharger network. No deals-in-the-making, no converters involved, just a right-now way to conveniently charge your car at thousands of locations.@@altosack
Wow! A friend's Kia EV6 was rear ended at a traffic light. I wonder if it was a factor. When I was a young knucklehead, I used to try to stop by downshifting my VW Bug for fun. Thanks CR for shining a break light on this.
I've come close to rear ending at least a couple teslas (my parents as well) because they decelerate a lot without turning on their brake lights. I don't know if CR found anything with Teslas not putting their brake lights on, but I've certainly delt with situations where a tesla in front of me is slowing down at a quite significant rate, without their brake lights turning on.
Also I'm glad AEB can detect slowing cars whether their brake lights are on or off. It has warned me a couple times about a Tesla slowing down in front of me, without brake lights on.
Pretty glad I didn't end up buying an Ioniq 5 last year with this issue and the ICCU - loss of power/mobility issue happening. What a shitshow.
@@nickbien Tesla lights in general are too small/dim. I was on I-66 a couple months ago during a bad thunderstorm. There was a Tesla in the line of traffic and it took real focus to not lose it because they kept changing lanes, essentially asking to be hit. They had their lights on, but they were so small/dim it disappeared between wiper swipes. Not good with a dark grey vehicle that is essentially the same color as a wet road.
Interesting, my Subaru Forester, has brake light indicators in the cabin... so that I know when the brake lights are on, and when they aren't. I recommend this for all cars. :)
Preferably via fiberoptics visible in the rear-view mirror like old Cadillacs from the '70s-90s, to give an indication of the actual function of each brake light.
Long before EVs, I thought it would be so helpful if cars had "status" lights in the back....green light for when the car is accelerating or maintaining constant speed/using cruise control. A yellow light would indicate coasting/slowing. And red lights would indicate traditional braking.
You beat me to it, I also thought before EV's that it would be nice to have a yellow light when taking you foot off the gas pedal to show you're slowing and maybe about to apply the brakes. Also thought of blinking brake lights instead of yellow but that may be misunderstand as someone using the hazard lights.
Never thought of having a green light, but that's not a bad idea either. Smart thinking (I think).
@@samconnecticut1485 I'd also like to see traffic lights offer the same courtesy, to tell you how much time is left on the green. That way, we give drivers more information and clear the dilemma zone. Paint a lateral yellow line on the road, and if you are before that yellow line, then slow down for a yellow. If you are after that yellow line, speed up for a yellow.
@@carultchbreaking distances change with speed so the arbitrary distance of that line on pavement is difficult to judge and may present a liability problem for municipalities in case of accidents caused by trying to "beat the red" while driving below the speed limit
I own a Tesla Model 3. I understand that the brake lights illuminate at .11 G’s of deceleration. You can also see if your brake lights are on by looking at the avatar of the car on the screen.
I was driving behind the new regular chevy bolt and noticed it was slowing down without any brake lights coming on. I immediately knew it was due to regen braking but the average driver would not. I totally agree this is an urgent issue that needs to get remedied quickly by automakers.
If I'm using ACC, Adaptive Cruise Control, in my '19 Civic and the car in front of me slows down my brake lights DO come on to show the drivers behind me that I am slowing down. Seems that it's only a Hyundai, Kia, Mercedes issue.
That is the same basic language that both Hyundai and Kia used in defense of not having immobilizers on certain vehicle years, that are being stolen at a very high rate, because they have no immobilizers. However, it doesn't really hold water. Because other vehicles by other manufacturers, made in those same prospective years, all had immobilizes. In fact, I had driven my relatives 2014 sonata, and it had an immobilizer.
Thank you for probably the most important CR segment addressing existing public safety issues at large. The only way you can make it even more informative is to list all manufacturers' models having the same problem - not just 2!
I was mortified to see in the rear view mirror a car nearly rear ending me when test driving An EV earlier last year!
The salesman next to me in front passenger seat, demonstrated the different regeneration braking levels using paddle shifter on the steering wheel with my foot off accelerator pedal while "coasting" at 40 MPH. Deceleration G force at level B was equal to moderately strong breaking and no brake light went on! This was at nighttime so when using brake pedal passenger cabin would get a red glow, that couldn't be missed. I asked him if he realized it and he said: "the driver behind needs to pay attention".
What could he say? That the car he was hoping to sell me was fundamentally unsafe for the public on the road?
One of the things I don't understand is why these companies change the behavior to be less safe compared to what is required in, for example, the European market. You already have the software, the algorithms, everything is present and yet someone says: let's make a different set of settings for the North American market where we don't have to turn on the brake lights so often... what is going through the minds of those people when they decide something stupid like that?
Drivers are still responsible for being aware of the road and maintaining safe distance from other vehicles on the road. But in the age of very distracted, bad drivers probably a Good idea for their brake lights to activate if 1peddle brake rates passes a threshold 🚙 🚨🚗🚔
What's crazy, is how many customers that Hyundai group and Mercedes are going to lose with this problem becoming commonly known as a safety issue.
Great investigative reporting! This is a major safety concern, to the point I would never consider a MB or Hyundai EV until it’s fixed.
As per CR: The European Union has a regulation that requires EVs to illuminate their brake lights anytime the regenerative-braking system’s deceleration rate exceeds 1.3 meters per second squared, or about 0.13 g. Sounds like a standard that should be implemented in the US.
Was this an issue for all those that owned a manual transmission and routinely did engine breaking?
5:43 - This answers my EV of choice for safety - Ioniq 6. 👍
The brake lights should be disassociated from the brake pedal. I converted an old car to electric. It has regen braking and I rarely touch the brake pedal. I put in a mercury tilt switch that simply illuminates the brake lights when the car slows for any reason. Works a treat and I don't have to worry about people hitting me from behind. Just stunned car manufacturers don't do this - and not *just* for EVs.
That's a pretty neat solution but I feel like implementing a method that relies on a toxic chemical that's hard to clean if it were damaged may be the thing that they use as for a reason why they haven't
Good to cover this topic. One pedal driving just means it can come to a complete stop just by letting off on the accelerator pedal. Even cars without one pedal driving, or not operating in that mode, can slow down quickly just from regenerative braking. So, any rule making should not hinge on one pedal driving.
Just be aware, this is no diff from ice vehicles or manual trans vehicles or motorcycles, W/O brake lights not igniting until the physical brakes are actuated. BE ALERT & AWARE AS A HUMAN DRIVER!
I'll keep hard downshifting in my ICE manual transmission car. Good luck dealing with the reality that distracted driving is your own fault.
CR was late in highlighting this safety concern ., you were basically recommended all these car before someone else pointed out this safety concerns ,not showing brakes light while barking is also a ticketing offense.
Great topic to dig into. We will do some of our own research and report.
What happened to Volvo's brake lights that would flash under "hard" emergency braking, and the faster the deceleration, the faster they would blink?
Interesting that these companies didn't think of this. Tesla had this figured out long ago with a g-sensor responsible for turning the brake lights on. My Model 3 brake lights come on when the vehicle is aggressively slowing down. When just gradually slowing down similar to a gas car coasting and slowing, they will not illuminate.
So many ICE cars now have a brake hold switch. Suppose you are stopped at a light, and you switch on brake hold, but remove your foot from the brake pedal. Do the brake lights stay on?
If there won't be a law mandating the brake lights, insurance company should just price these cars out to force the customers to stop buying these garbage. I don't want to keep a list of cars in my mind just to be safer in these marginal situations and I don't want to share the roads with these moving hazards. The same reason the chevy bolt current gen is one of the cars that I absolutely loathe because of its unconventional position of braking lights.
I always wondered about this, and now I know. I can't believe they even released EV cars with such an obvious safety flaw. Not only that but it possibly puts owners in a liable position in accidents even ones that wouldn't otherwise be their fault.
regen braking is great, but I use regular brakes form time to time , to lube brake cyclinders and make brake pads scraped clean
Very good analysis but in regards to Mercedes; essentially all Mercedes models have an auto hold function, when the car is at a stoplight and you step off the brake the brake lights are off. Given that virtually all Mercedes models behave that way and have so for many years without any accidents associated with the feature, the chances that Mercedes will address this concern are virtually zero.
Next time you try to explain one pedal braking, you may want to compare it to an electric golf cart.
But great informative video, hats off.
Good catch. Important info.
If a motor vehicles brake light does not illuminate when brakes are applied....... An officer can issue a repair order for said vehicle in order to make said vehicle compliant with vehicle safety standards.....The information in this video does equate to vehicle safety standards..... Ok .....Duly noted.
Hybrids have had regenerative braking for years. There isn't any excuse for NHTSA to be so far behind on this.
Hybrids have comparatively-smaller electric motors which do not provide nearly the effective braking force when they're functioning as generators.
I know older BMW X5 even illuminates brake lights when the car slows down too much without brake pedal, though I think it was when reducing the speed with cruise control adjustment.
It’s crazy regen don’t turn the lights on…
Are brake lights expected engine braking downhill too? People see what they want to see, if they're only focused on going (we're driving on a road, that should be the only objective) so they'll see any venue to keep going, like not stopping, maintaining momentum or switching lanes. People rear end cars and run red lights because they see the green light or see their path ahead of the, despite to red light. Cars are better off with automatic emergency braking sensing the stopped car than pretending like drivers are actually focused on lights or stationary cars.
The Bolt did when I had it, coming to a stop and hold but then turn the brake lights back off. So often I would hold the brake pedal unnecessarily so some dimwit behind me wouldn't rear end me.
Great work, keep it up guys
The complete stop is a concern, but... Down shifting on on traditional transmissions does not induce brake lights. I may not have my brakes, on a manual transmission, activated on level grade while sitting still.
If I need to slow down any faster than the natural rate of coasting to avoid crashing in to you, I damn well better see your brake lights come on. I don't care what your car does to slow itself down. If it is doing anything to actively slow down, the brake lights should illuminate.
This is really a disturbing situation and I applaud CR for investigating and establishing communication with the auto companies and regulatory authorities for a solution. On a related topic, some vehicles have an "auto hold" feature that allows the driver to lift off the brake pedal when the car is stopped at a traffic signal or in traffic. When that occurs, do the brake lamps remain illuminated even though the brake pedal is not being pressed? If not, it would seem that the same potentially dangerous situation would exist as drivers approaching from the rear might not realize that the car ahead is actually stopped.
I used to use the Auto Hold feature in my '22 BMW 330e quite a lot; in that car, the brake lights would stay illuminated when my foot was off the brake pedal when stopped.
My EQE SUV has the worst one pedal driving - the brakes depressed when I let go the gas pedal.
Really great research and focus on the consumer!
All EVs have brake lights illuminate when hard regen is applied. Now some but not all continue to illuminate the brake lights at the full stop.
Stick shifts have done this for years....
No shit genius.
How common is it for manual transmission drivers to operate in this manner? One pedal driving is the default with EVs, it's a really comfortable way to drive. Everybody but Hyundai gets this right it's not that hard.
@@joshuarosen465 Literally every person who's ever driven a manual transmission vehicle does this.
It saves wear and tear on your brakes.
Truckers do this. It's called Jake Braking.
Thank god for Consumer Reports. That's all I can say.
Absolutely, praise sky fairy.
Got pulled over once for my brake lights being burnt out. They were fine…I had a hard time getting the officer to believe that a vehicle with a standard transmission can be slowed without using the brakes by down shifting! 😂
"Do you know why I pulled you over today?"
'Because you got all C's in high school?'
This is a very interesting video. And hopefully as time goes on we chose the best stoplamp modification with EVs.
I had issues with Tesla drivers e breaking even at 3 car lengths it difficult to gauge at dusk or dawn which is when I leaving or coming home from work. I drove a truck slowly and I’ve had many ev,s cut in front of me and e brake causing difficulty judging their speed. My advantage is in a truck I look at the cars ahead.
What about down shifting with a manual transmission? I can almost come to a complete stop when down shifting and I’ve never heard of this being a problem in the past. Also in some automatic cars you can manually down shift in sport mode also. Maybe people needs to be a little more aware of surroundings.
If your car slows down any faster than the natural rate of passive slow-down, it should be required to illuminate the brake lights. If your car subtracts energy from the kinetic + potential energy of the car, it should illuminate the brake lights. The reason for the slow down should not matter. We need to communicate effectively with the driver behind us.
These guys are doing a lot of reaching out.
What about paddle shifters on hybrids? I use them to slow down sometimes!
Does regen braking cause more wear and tear on the brake pds?
I'm curios how does Tesla handles brake light, does it work as one would except it rather then "rules"?
It works as expected, brake lights come on once you start to decelerate at that appropriate level.
@@cardude990 What standard does Tesla follow for slow-down rates on an uphill, and steady-regen on a downhill?
Does Tesla illuminate the brake lights if an uphill is the reason for a slow-down?
Does it illuminate the brake lights if you regen to maintain a steady speed on a downhill?
Are there laws stating that gas cars must illuminate brake lights when downshifting to engine brake? Sometimes you do a lot of downshifting in the twisties to slow down before a turn. Why is this just now an issue?
It is now an issue, because it happens a lot more that people use other means than a brake to slow down. A very select few of drivers even knew how to slow down by down-shifting, and it was less common that it would cause an accident.
If I need to slow down any faster than the natural rate of coasting, to avoid crashing in to you, I damn well better see your brake lights come on. I don't care what the mechanics of your car's slow down rate are. Failing to give the driver behind you the information they need to avoid crashing in to you, should not be the cause of an accident.
This video briefly mentions EU rules at the end. The Technology Connections YT video that first discussed this issue also reviewed the EU rules and found that, unlike the U.S. rules that are silent on this issue, the EU rules were worse in that they explicitly forbid the activation of brake lights when the brakes aren't pressed. Consumer Reports might want to revisit the EU rules for brake lights.
I don’t understand why the brake pedal alone can’t be used for regen braking. Seems to me one pedal driving is a gimmick. The brake pedal, depending on how you use it could easily be used for regen braking. Why do people have to learn a whole new method of driving when the manufacturers should be adapting the system we’ve been using for well over a century to a regen braking system. If you press lightly on the brake pedal, it can use the regen system to slow the car. If you press firmly, the regen system should just respond more aggressively, like the the accelerator and brakes always have. It’s only the system that’s changed, but the method should remain the same.
The brake pedal does provide regenerative braking and transitions to normal braking when regen is exceeded, exactly as you foolishly described after spouting off nonsense.
Nobody "has to learn" (perish the thought of having to learn something new!) to use 1 pedal mode.
Imagine being so upset over having to learn something? What a tough life.
I think the idea is that if you want to slow down at a rate that regen can handle, that you use the one-pedal driving to do so. If for some reason, you need to slow down faster than that, the service brakes are available for a much harder rate of stopping, if you need to step on the brakes.
Yeah we’ve known about the no brake light at a stop issue with the Mini SE for over a year. Maybe it’s the German way? It’s not a big deal as long as you’re conscious of it.
No mention of Tesla on this subject ? curious !
Cars have always been able to decelerate without the use of the brake pedal. This is not an issue exclusive to EVs.
Vehicles with auto-hold, do the brake lights stay on after the driver takes their for of the brake pedal and the car is sitting there in drive and not moving? Hill-brake-assist, does the brake light stay on after taking the foot off the brake pedal and the car isn't moving?
Very good research and findings. I’m glad this is limited to the Hyundai Motor Group’s cars and Mercedes in the latter scenario. I had an Ioniq 5, and it’s a great car. I never really got into iPedal aka one pedal driving. Knowing that using the brakes does first provide regen and only then actually activate the brakes, meant I could drive a lot more smoothly than the jerkiness of one pedal driving (which I was first introduced to in a 2020 Tesla Model Y that I sold due to excessive phantom braking). I believe Hyundai Motor Group will fix this, but I don’t think they’ll do so very quickly. Meanwhile, I ultimately traded my Ionic 5 in for a 2019 Audi e-tron, so I’m going to try to find out if that car shows it’s brake lights properly now to make sure I’m safe.
My Tesla DOES turn on break light when regen breaking
My boss drives his chevy spark in D1 low, which regenerates aggressively... I feel. After I drove his, I asked him ..., "holy crap that is strong/aggressive, does your brake lights come on, when you let your foot off" and he said, "idk" I said he should be careful, especially during rain and snow, when someone following you might not know your coming to a stop. While he might not care, with an attitude of, it will be there fault. A permanent injury or death ... well that is way more life changing, then who is at fault.
Gee, when I drive my manual and brake with the clutch by downshifting, my brake lights do not come on. What’s the difference? And when I decelerate in 4th, my brake lights do not come on either. When I downshift my Automatic to engine brake, they do not come on.
Your ICE car should be held to the same standard. If I need to slow down any faster than the natural rate of coasting to avoid crashing in to you, I damn well better see your brake lights come on. Anything else is a lawsuit waiting to happen. I don't care if you are downshifting, engine braking, using the emergency brake, or regenerating.
Break light are not on while stationary or waiting in traffic in the Mercedes and several newer car because of auto hold function as car is put in park.
"Once you see that word pop up, you can safely remove your foot from the brake while the car keeps the brakes engaged and the brake lights illuminated."
Notice the spelling of the third-to-last word.
Straight from Mercedes.
Literally *zero* vehicles put your vehicle into park with auto hold.
Not so with my BMW. When using Auto Hold, the brake lights remain illuminated with the brake pedal released. As soon as you begin to accelerate, the brake lights turn off.
I see no reason why brake lights are not deployed when one pedal decelerating but, how is that different from down shifting with a manual transmission. Looks like another CR hit on BEVs.
This is no different than downshifting in a manual transmission to slow down. I don’t think this is an issue.
If the car slows down any faster than the natural rate of coasting, it should need to illuminate its brake lights. If I'm behind you, I don't care what the mechanics of your slow-down rate is. If I have to step on my brakes to avoid crashing in to you, I better see your brake lights illuminated.
The last thing we need is accidents because of failures to give drivers the information they need to avoid the accidents.
Downshift with a manual car, does the brake light turn on? Downshift with an automatic car, does the brake light turn on? For EVs, the brake light should not turn on as soon as you lift off the pedal but rather after a few seconds.
If I need to do anything other than coast naturally to avoid crashing in to you, I damn well better see your brake lights come on. I don't care what the reason for your slow-down is. Car manufacturers need to effectively communicate to other drivers.
Great guys! So if I'm using auto hold in my Optima I can hope the brake lights are illuminated?? Thx
Illumination of brake lights corresponding with significant deceleration is so simply logical and a duh, that a lack of activation if brake lights should lead to a lawsuit from the rear driver.
I drive a manual gearbox car and use gears to slow down; I'm pretty sure my break lights don't light up when doing this.
Regen has been around forever, the Prius we had 20 years ago had it - we drove constantly in "B" mode.
That said, it shouldn't be too hard to have a moving averaged froward direction accelerometer tied into the brake light system.
What is a "break light" and was it broken?
Don’t waste you time with CR. They keep claiming EVs do this. NOT one just one EV manufacturer, Hyundai.
Thanks for your insight. My Kia Niro PHEV has one pedal driving and Adaptive Cruise Control. The cruise control will bring my car to a complete stop when the car ahead of me stops. I have no idea if my brake lights come on during the deceleration or the stop, or if a certain deceleration value triggers the light. Have you tested this on any of your cars? Thanks again for publicizing a very important safety issue.
My Forester has adaptive cruise. The car illustration in the IP shows the tail lights and they turn on with the brake lights the same as the door logo illuminates when a door is opened.
It should be pretty simple, If regeneration is activated it effectively applies brakes, Therefore Brake lights should be on,
Ridiculous that CR could even shout out the
TH-cam channel that brought this up first. Also it is a none issue if the following drive is actually paying attention and maintaining a safe following distance. Maybe CR should look into self driving technology. If the car is driving and get into an accident the it should be on the car manufacturer insurance at there liability because in fact the car was driving.
Ridiculous that you assume they weren't asked the question by someone who failed to relay the source of their question.
This is how I drive a golf cart!
While deceleration rates make sense as a measurement for when brake lights come on, I think that there could be some weird corner cases while going up or down a hill. If the lights were based only on decelerations rates from an accelerometer, you could have them turn on when going up a hill without braking, or have them stay off while braking down a hill. Maybe use a braking force requirement relative to deceleration on a flat surface?
The brake lights won't (and should not) come on just from going up a hill because of deceleration. This is a phenomenon that is hard to describe/understand without driving the cars themselves.
I highly recommend the Technology connections video on the subject that sparked this.
In traditional vehicles, you press the gas to accelerate, the brake to slow down, and you can coast without pressing either. If you let off the gas, you will get a bit of idle power and creep forward. In EVs, you usually will get no creep and will only move when you press the accelerator. Gas means go, brake means slow, and you can sit still without your foot on the brake and not be moving. Should you have the brake lights come on at an intersection when you are stopped or in traffic if stopped when you aren't moving but aren't pressing the service brake? Right now that is not required by law. But most drivers, out of habit with ICE, rest their foot on the brake to keep a car from moving. One pedal doesn't require that and actually gets you out of that habit.
Now the one pedal mode basically allows one to use the accelerator to control both the speeding up and the regen braking. It becomes more of a 'speed' pedal and less of an accelerator. If you press it halfway down you will moderayly accelerate to like 40-45 mph. If you let off the pedal and only have it 10% depressed, you will start to slow down pretty aggressively and will slow to say 15-20. You can do this very aggressively by adjusting the level of regen braking the system uses. As long as your foot is on the accelerator pedal in a Kia/Hyundai/genesis that isn't the new EV6 or the new Niro EV, you can slow down and come to a complete stop from 45mph in less than a 300-400 hundred yards without touching the brakes and without the brake lights coming on.
Teslas don't do that, because they're programmed to monitor how fast a car is slowing down and turn on the brake lights. The new Chevy Bolt doesn't do that because the aggressive Regen braking on the steering wheel and the one pedal mode are programmed to turn on the brakes when the car is being slowed down by the electric drive Regen braking. This is a setting that Kia/Hyundai need to adjust because if you have iPedal you shouldn't be able to slow down the car and 'slam on' regen braking without the car behind you knowing what is happening.
It sounds like you have the wrong idea about what an accelerometer does. Incline has nothing to do with it. Just acceleration.
@Quasarnova1, You can't go up a hill without "accelerating". If you brake while going down a hill, the car is "decelerating" as compared to any previous moment.
@@java97 If you use an accelerometer to determine when the car is braking, and you are using regenerative braking to maintain a steady speed going down a hill, the brake lights would fail to come on.
I agree that the deceleration rate should be the standard at least for the flat road case, but indeed it should have some nuance to figure out exactly what needs to happen.
The standard should be that any time you are SUBTRACTING energy from the car's mechanical energy, that the brake lights should illuminate. It shouldn't be that difficult to figure out when an EV is subtracting energy, whether it is by regen braking or standard braking.
It seems that the government will be looking into this…
My Teslas ALL light up the brake lights with one pedal driving.
Wow 😮
They can just do an over the air update like Tesla is so good at.
But then how can a dealership charge $400 for a 90 second software update?
Read Addendum 12-H: UN Regulation No. 13-H section 5.2.22.4
Electric regenerative braking systems as defined in paragraph 2.17. of this Regulation, which produce a retarding force upon release of the accelerator control, shall generate the signal mentioned above according to the following provisions:
Vehicle decelerations Signal generation
≤ 0.7 m/s² The signal shall not be generated
> 0.7 m/s² and ≤ 1.3 m/s² The signal may be generated
> 1.3 m/s² The signal shall be generated
Problem of current regulation is discussed in this document:
(IMMA) Proposal to harmonise stop lamp activation thresholds for regenerative braking in UN Regulation No. 78 with new provisions in UN Regulation No. 13-H
If you’re brake lights are not working properly it’s a ticketing offense, that goes for every light on your car even the license plate light.
If you are brake lights?
I am not brake lights.
And... they are functioning as they would with an ICE vehicle.
The Mini Cooper SE has this same issue that it does NOT keep the brake lights on once the car comes to a complete stop when using full regen mode
NHTSA gets an F on this one. I was concerned about this so thanks CR 👍
My Polestar2 brake lights come on when regenerative braking. I have to let off the go pedal a bit so gentle region braking doesn't make the brake lights constantly going on off on off. Then that would be just another thing for the anti EV crowd to bitch about. I don't remember people complaining about no brake lights when downshifting with a manual transmission back in the day. Oh wait, that's right, it's 2023 when everybody has to whine ABOUT EVERYTHING
What about the Auto Break Hold feature with newer cars? Is the break light on while ABH is active without stepping on the break paddle?
On my Acura, the stop lights remain illuminated when removing my foot from the brake using the auto brake hold.
What is a 'break light" and a "break paddle"?
Are we talking about broken brake lights on a paddle ship?
My BMW keeps the brake lights illuminated when using Auto Hold and the brake pedal released.
Hmm, SUS that they didn't have anything to say about Tesla. Must be because they solved this problem years ago. 🤷
This should be a simple software update!
That is a very annoying and dangerous issue which should be regulated by law. The electronics are there, all smartphones have a cheap sensor that detects changes in velocity, called accelerometer. I think that most EV:s have an accelerometer already built in. Can easily be implemented in other cars too.
On a side note: Please try to differentiate more when you refer to confusable marks, like Hyundai (you pronounced it like "Hondæi"). I thought that you referred to the Honda until I saw the text combined with your pronunciation.
What a bunch of hc....
I have always driven aggressively using lower gears to slow down the car i/o using brakes. And have done this with manual and automatic transmissions.
Not all EVs have blending system...
I've never heard of this before. I wonder if the brake lights on Tesla vehicles works the same way. I could see where this could be a real safety issue, especially for drivers in the habit of tailgating or following too close to an EV in preparation for passing or during wet / winter driving conditions. Thank you for the video.
Tesla's lights are fine. They trigger based on rate of deceleration.
Cars without brake lights under regen braking should have never been cleared for the roads. That's negligence. Pretending that regen isn't just a new form of brake is ridiculous.
Are you describing a vehicle undergoing engine braking which has existed since the first moving vehicle existed?
Spoiler: if you drive a manual you can slow way way down with no lights illuminating except one to let you know it's time to upshift.
I wish car companies were more willing to say, "Thanks for the feedback. We understand your concern." This refusal to admit that something might possibly be "wrong" with their cars simply because they technically follow the letter of the law, regardless of what might make practical sense is infuriating.
They have to. It would open them to litigation as this would construe admitted liability.
Why am I not surprised this only affects the South Korean brands? They are the same brands most frequently stolen because their cars lack a transponder in the key which makes them far easier to steal - despite the software fix that CR recently announced was deployed. It appears even today they cut corners sometimes even though it is not as frequent as they used to when they first sold cars. The fact they have no statement taking care of this possible safety concern says it all about their companies today - they still don't always put the customer first. Great evidence CR.
Shouldn’t be tailgating!
So Hyundai is at it again. First don’t put in vehicle immobilizers to help deter thief if customers cars.
why did this take so long to raise a stink about, it's been going on for the two decades that hybrids have existed and I thought it was common knowledge
Engine breaking has always been a thing... I've been doing it for 50 years!
If your engine is breaking then you have bigger problems than your brake lights.