I was reading a book about the american civil war recently and found this channel because i was searching for some information about the the mechanics of civil war era weaponry. After watching your informative and interesting videos for some time now, i find myself becoming more and more interested in firearms, something i would have never expected. Thanks for your great work and greetings from Germany.
This is one of the coolest designs I have seen and the reason I subscribed to this channel. You always show off lots of cool and intetresting designs that otherwise you would never know about or never find a video on. Thanks again!
@@melvinsuter984 yes truly awesome content. I very much enjoy this channel. Lots of great history and mechanical wonders that have been otherwise forgotten. Hence the name...... Forgotten weapons.... 👍 Love this
agreed. i love breachloading paper cartridge guns for some reason, and by far this seems to be the most. “solid” and simple version ive seen. something like the furgoson with the screw seems a bit fiddly, and other carbines seem to have a good deal of over engineered machanics that i feel would just cause more potential problems. or require a few different steps or dont offer enough of a breach seal (like the hall) this seems simple and straight to the point operations wise without many fiddly bits. would love to see something similar on the market.
Каждое видео, что посмотрел на этом канале это удивительные решения оружейников своего времени!! Потрясающий контент, спасибо!! Masterpiece gun!! Thank you!!
Great history lesson. Thank you. Recently your channel after being introduced to youtube. I heard, several years ago, about a weapon that was awarded (only time in history) to a few heros of "The Battle of Plattsburg" during the American Revolution. I believe the Lindner may be a "later version" of that firearm. If you have already covered it, I am really sorry that I missed it.
Anzac-A1 yeah, when a contract is made with the understanding that gun purchases will be continued as long as guns pass inspection, it is generally accepted that those guns go to inspection. The sliminess comes in the fact that the government knew his weapons would pass inspection, so they just avoided inspection all together
Anzac-A1 that’s pretty much the definition of a slimy out. If they wanted to be fair and have more up to date rifles, they would have approached him with a list of improvements, but the government is slimy as always and decided to take the easy route (screwing over their previous manufacturer)
I think it is fascinating how many solutions to muzzle loading were devised before someone came up with the self contained metallic cartridge. I would have thought it would come about much sooner!
Great video, I learned something new, even though I'm Canadian, I'm still very much interested in 1800's technology and warfare, like the American civil war and the war of 1812
Is there a specific name for that type of rotating half of the breechblock that you turn and describe at 2:59? Telescopic Rotating breech? Telescopic Rotary? I’ve been looking for it everywhere because I imagine it could’ve been developed a lot earlier than it actually was.
Very clever and effective design. You would think that mass conversion of rifle-muskets to this system would have been appealing, since it would be cheaper than producing new arms and using the issue paper cartridge and percussion cap ammunition supply wouldn't be impacted (except for the higher rate of fire).
The thumbnail image really has me wondering if Erskine Allin saw one of these and realized he just needed to flip the breechblock 180 degrees for metallic cartridges. There are obviously other differences, but even the contours on the Lindner breech mechanism remind me of the “trapdoor” on the Springfield Allin conversions.
I'm currently reading The Illustrated History of Firearms 2nd Edition amd seeing this broken down gives me a much better understanding of the advancements of the contained cartridge.
I love the idea of using a breach like this to make the most unsporting English duelling pistol possible. Large caliber, rifled barrel, saw grip and front and rear sights like modern triangle quick acquisition iron sights but with polished silver inlays instead of luminous inlays. I realise duelling pistols came in sets so it wouldn't really be unsporting of your opponent had the same or simply couldn't be used, but I still get a kick from the idea
If they switched out the little tab on the lock with an actual bolt handle it would've been way easier and faster to open and close the breech. It's still a really neat design. Thanks for uploading.
Rather unique cartridges for this gun too. Rather than the usual folded paper tail, there was ~ 7-8 strings of yarn forming a tail. Before loading, the soldier pulled out the tail, opening up the cartridge's rear !
With a paper cartridge, does a mechanism in the rifle peirce it, exposing the powder for the percussion cap to spark, or do you simply rip it yourself and shove into the breach? Sorry if a stupid question!!
Is the paper cartridge to be emptied into the breach? Or is the percussion cap expected to burn through the paper? The first one seems impractical for soldiers on horseback and the second one seems like it’d be extremely unreliable, or result in a lot of instances of the hammer falling and the piece firing possibly as long as seconds later. Can you enlighten me? Thanks!
I"m curious what cavalrymen were meant to do about residue building up in the cartridge chamber. Wouldn't burnt paper etc build up in there and make it hard to fit a new cartridge?
No doubt, paper and powder would both build up fouling over time, but another advantage to this design is that the chamber is much easier to see and access with cleaning tools. Swab out the barrel as normal, then you can give the back of the chamber a good hard scrubbing where the crud accumulation would likely be worst. Ian didn't take the gun apart so I couldn't say for sure, but if it's at all feasible to remove the whole breech mechanism from the gun, you'd have access to the barrel from both sides, which is impossible on most muzzle loaders.
Wouldn't even need a starter - just shove the cartridge in by hand. The chamber is probably slightly overbore and the locking rotor / wedge brings the ball / bullet right up to the start of the rifling.
Interesting piece. Thanks for sharing Ian. I do love me black powder. I looked and wonder if they will get the expected price. With so few in existence it would be a great addition to any collection.
Though the action's design is simple enough, to manufacture precise-enough dimensions for something like this would had been prohibitively expensive before the 1830s. Before that, the majority of fine, precision metalwork would had been done with files, in conjunction with the keen eye and steady hand of a skilled craftsman. The lack of precision measuring tools always meant every part would had to be custom-fitted individually during the manufacturing process. These shortcomings would had made it very laborious and expensive for anyone to produce a firearm like a Lindner carbine. It wasn't until the late 1700s that we began to mechanized the traditional gunsmithing process, first with filing jigs and templates that sped up the filing process, moving on to automatic filing machines powered by water and steam, than eventually culminating into a whole set of powered milling, boring, and lathing machines augmented by the advent of precision measurements as pioneered by Simeon North, John Hall, Joseph Whitworth, and others.
i really like that gun it's pretty cool, always amazes me the number of guns i've never even heard of so thank you for putting out these videos they are quite informative. any chance you guys will ever get your hands on a Borchardt C-93? would really like to see you do a detailed video on one im fascinated with that pistol
Very interesting and thanks for posting! Looks like it would be problematic to clean; that waste and carbon would tend to build up underneath the breech loading mechanism.
William Cox I was wondering about that too, actually, though I can't imagine it's worse than getting around the gas tube inside a DI m-4's upper receiver. But then, we have solvents and wire brushes, I guess.
William Cox I suspect a bigger problem when using this weapon is pressing down the breech tube after a few rounds when its hot. That and possible ignition as your shoving the cartridge into the hot breech!
I never understood the paper cartridge success.. doesn't the cap flame have to go through the paper to the powder....I have muzzleloaders but paper cartridges seems like a exercise in frustration? What about wet paper, or cuts,powder falling out?
Yes the Amoskeag Mills were in Manchester NH. Most of the Mill buildings survive to this day, and are in current use in a variety of mostly commercial capacities. The story Ian told about Mr Lindner getting swindled by Uncle Sam is still part of local knowledge. I remember learning the story from my Grandfather.
I wonder if there was ever any consideration given to converting the Springfield rifle-musket to that system. It would seem like a way to significantly increase firepower.
A huge number of standard pattern muskets were given the trap door breach conversion some years after the war. While this system probably offers a better gas seal, it is a bit more complicated to manufacture, and not well suited for use with metallic cartridges, which by this time were becoming standard.
Is there a (hollow) spike in the back to puncture the paper? I assume so as this was common in other paper cartridge guns, but you didn't mention it...
Interesting system. I'd never heard of that one. I wonder if Amoskeag was producing the Lindner carbines at the same time they were producing Pattern 1861 muskets? †hank you for producing these videos of unusual rifles and pistols. It is much easier to learn about them the way you present them.
Do you think the Lindner had any influence on the Austrain 1867 Werdnl Rifle? Because the Lindner reminds me a lot of the Werdnl's "Tabernacle" breech system.
Wouldn't opening the breech block with a hammer at half-cock fuse the thing and make it shoot out of the back end with consequences that are potentially deadly for the user?
Good Lord this is a complex weapon for what it was supposed to accomplish! My hat's off to the designers, but it looks like it would be a nightmare in the trenches.
Hi Ian! Take a look at this! norskevaapen.no/?p=496 It's a Norwegian collectors website on Norwegian weapons, I think you might find the krag and "Kammerlader" (Chamber loader) especially interesting. And it's in english! Lots of fascinating reading and pictures.
I have a rather "strange" question: Where most of the Civil-War-Era-People dumb? - Why am I asking that? Because they almost exclusively made guns with crappy sights (Ian was saying that about a lot of civil-war-era weapons - be they rifles or revolvers!), I mean shouldn't that have been easy to figure out that what they called sights was just not working all that well? Is making a (protected at best) front post and a deeper notch so hard to figure out?
Once again, he's sight-shaming a gun and I'm cracking up. I'm so amused by his disapproval of iron sights. I want a compilation of all the occasions. Guess I'll have to make one myself some time.
It has a tiny rear notch, and an equally tiny front blade. Making the sights very hard to use. The front blade needs to be large, in order to stand out for the shooter. Look at any gun known for good iron sights, and you'll see a much larger blade.
+Ahri Man Usually means I made a verbal slip. I usually try to leave enough silent space to make the transitions clean, but sometimes it doesn't quite work.
@@ForgottenWeapons This peaked my interest as Manchester NH was the home of the Amoskeag Mills, and the Amoskeag Manufacturing Co. Although I believe that they also had a site in Nashua, and possibly Lowell Massachusetts. Having heard the story of Lindner, and his ill fated deal with the government from my Grandfather. I thought it might be interesting if you, or one of your fellow historians, would make a few videos about "Forgotten Weapons Manufacturer." I know that I would be interested. It also would give you a greater cross over appeal to people who are interested in engineering, but not firearms. In any case thank you for your consideration, and your excellent channel.
Mickey Xtian The cartridge is probably of the thin, heavily nitrated types that were designed to be ignited by the explosion of the cap just like paper revolver cartridges.
Mickey Xtian Well, the Sharps, which was a falling block breachloader, used the closing breach like a cigar cutter to snip the back end off the paper cartridge exposing the powder directly to the cap.
I was wondering the same thing and trying to picture how that could be accomplished - possibly just a sharp point on the inside end of the channel carrying the ignition from the cap to the chamber, that slightly tore the cartridge as it was inserted.
Why are the sights on so many old guns terrible and tiny? Had they not figured out that you can shoot accurately with sights that are big enough to see easily?
Forgive me for not being well versed on historical firearms, but what were the weapons and technological improvements that made this carbine obsolete? you mentioned Spencer carbines, and from what you were saying it seems there were a few other competing designs as well. What made these designs superior?
The Spencer carbine, was a repeating firearm, metal cartridge, faster loading and more accurate thanks to a rifled barrel and consistent powder loads in the metal cartridge.
Rifled barrels tube magizines in the stock that held 7 rounds and a good sized rimfire bullet for the spencer the other designs used the spencers bullet and loaded one shot from the back and were rifled thats why
These look more primitive than the sharps which was already lightyears behind the dreyse and chassepot which were becoming obsolete to metallic cartridges so it's no wonder that the army lost interest in it.
it makes sense, but will there be no ash remain after every shot? paper should leave ash in about 1/4 of its volume, so will continuing to fire not cover the far back of the chamber? or is the burst of black powder sufficent to burst the ash into the barrel? on the other side, the ignition is on the side of gun and about 1-1,5cm from the end of a chamber to prevent blocking the ignition path, like the earlier front loaded guns? and thank you for your answer.
This is my new favorite FW episode and I wish I could afford to place a bid on that puppy. I live < 20 miles from where that was manufactured and go to college in a building that was built by the Amoskeag Manuf. Co. By the way, around here we pronounce it am-mo-skayg
that's the first thing i thought as well when i saw the loading mechanism. though the mechanism in the Disruptor Rifle faces the other way (he loads from the back, and not from the front)
@@EliasKaydanius it's not just the loading mechanism, however. The octagonal component of the barrel assembly ahead of the loading assembly, before breaking into a smooth barrel with no wood grip. A few more elements of the loading area. Trigger assembly. The least matching element is barrel length (closer to a springfield) and the stock (looks totally custom, as well as being too long)
I was reading a book about the american civil war recently and found this channel because i was searching for some information about the the mechanics of civil war era weaponry. After watching your informative and interesting videos for some time now, i find myself becoming more and more interested in firearms, something i would have never expected. Thanks for your great work and greetings from Germany.
as expected from a German. all about engineering
Smooth bore carbine fired from horseback. The sights were probably as good as they needed to be. ;->
Not a smoothbore, Lindner carbines had perfectly ordinary for the time, three grove rifling.
The notch & blade are tiny, and thus would be terrible to use on horseback. On foot, better, but still pretty terrible.
@@anzaca1 in other words: use a normal Springfield
This is one of the coolest designs I have seen and the reason I subscribed to this channel. You always show off lots of cool and intetresting designs that otherwise you would never know about or never find a video on. Thanks again!
Seeing this comment from the future: oh boy, you're in for a ride
Melvin Suter oh yeah, it’s been amazing. I still watch every new video the day it comes out.
@@melvinsuter984 yes truly awesome content. I very much enjoy this channel. Lots of great history and mechanical wonders that have been otherwise forgotten. Hence the name...... Forgotten weapons.... 👍 Love this
The world has gone through wars and a pandemic since this video came out. One thing has stayed constant… Ian will always be gun Jesus
Something about the action is so elegant and beautiful. I would love using one for hunting.
I wonder how well the gas seal is on this vs the one on the Kammerlader rifle.
save up 4000$$$ and you can.
Though at that price, you could probably have one made from scratch.
agreed. i love breachloading paper cartridge guns for some reason, and by far this seems to be the most. “solid” and simple version ive seen. something like the furgoson with the screw seems a bit fiddly, and other carbines seem to have a good deal of over engineered machanics that i feel would just cause more potential problems. or require a few different steps or dont offer enough of a breach seal (like the hall) this seems simple and straight to the point operations wise without many fiddly bits.
would love to see something similar on the market.
always impressed by a clever piece of firearms engineering. thanks.
convictjoe me to, allthoung i'm not a guy who shoots or collects guns.
You should publish a book showing all these rifles and how they work. It would be a good reference for modern fire arms designers.
Not a bad system. Clearly easier and faster than muzzle load.
That is a very cool breech loading mechanism. Would be cool on a flintlock rifle.
I know. Only you’d have to make the flint hammer a boxlock so that it centers right on the touch hole and acts as a firing pin to the paper cartridge.
Ian ALWAYS comes up with some really neat stuff!! Thanks, Ian!
Thanks for showing. Gives us an opportunity to admire some rare and expensive firearms we would otherwise miss out on.
Каждое видео, что посмотрел на этом канале это удивительные решения оружейников своего времени!! Потрясающий контент, спасибо!! Masterpiece gun!! Thank you!!
wow, lindner got ripped off by the goverment
Great history lesson. Thank you. Recently your channel after being introduced to youtube. I heard, several years ago, about a weapon that was awarded (only time in history) to a few heros of "The Battle of Plattsburg" during the American Revolution. I believe the Lindner may be a "later version" of that firearm. If you have already covered it, I am really sorry that I missed it.
The government screws over all of it people
Name one person that hasn't.
#taxationistheft
Maybe if he hadn't fiddled around with the design for so long he might have accomplished something .
Jebu911 REEEEEEEEEEE MUH LIBRATARTIONISM!
Good video and you prove to me how little I know about older firearms.
A "slimy out" ain't that what government is all about?
To waste Tax and to cheat to get out of a contract are different things.
They're not obligated to buy if the guns don't meet what they wanted.
It's not a slimy out. There was nothing in the contract saying the inspection was due by a certain date.
Anzac-A1 yeah, when a contract is made with the understanding that gun purchases will be continued as long as guns pass inspection, it is generally accepted that those guns go to inspection. The sliminess comes in the fact that the government knew his weapons would pass inspection, so they just avoided inspection all together
Anzac-A1 that’s pretty much the definition of a slimy out. If they wanted to be fair and have more up to date rifles, they would have approached him with a list of improvements, but the government is slimy as always and decided to take the easy route (screwing over their previous manufacturer)
I think it is fascinating how many solutions to muzzle loading were devised before someone came up with the self contained metallic cartridge. I would have thought it would come about much sooner!
I like this imagine what war would look like with this and other types of breechloading longarms using flintlocks.
"Slimy but Technically legal" is the classic American thing.
Great video, I learned something new, even though I'm Canadian, I'm still very much interested in 1800's technology and warfare, like the American civil war and the war of 1812
Is there a specific name for that type of rotating half of the breechblock that you turn and describe at 2:59? Telescopic Rotating breech? Telescopic Rotary? I’ve been looking for it everywhere because I imagine it could’ve been developed a lot earlier than it actually was.
Ok so apparently it’s a rotating drum bolt similar to the M1867 Werndl-Holub
Very clever and effective design. You would think that mass conversion of rifle-muskets to this system would have been appealing, since it would be cheaper than producing new arms and using the issue paper cartridge and percussion cap ammunition supply wouldn't be impacted (except for the higher rate of fire).
Yes I love all of the Civil War Carbines that you show us . That and post war are favourite period really
The thumbnail image really has me wondering if Erskine Allin saw one of these and realized he just needed to flip the breechblock 180 degrees for metallic cartridges. There are obviously other differences, but even the contours on the Lindner breech mechanism remind me of the “trapdoor” on the Springfield Allin conversions.
I'm currently reading The Illustrated History of Firearms 2nd Edition amd seeing this broken down gives me a much better understanding of the advancements of the contained cartridge.
This is actually a pretty cool design. I like all the videos but this is one that I wouldn’t mind having. Clever solution for its time this.
Neat little mechanism, thanks for sharing.
I love the idea of using a breach like this to make the most unsporting English duelling pistol possible. Large caliber, rifled barrel, saw grip and front and rear sights like modern triangle quick acquisition iron sights but with polished silver inlays instead of luminous inlays.
I realise duelling pistols came in sets so it wouldn't really be unsporting of your opponent had the same or simply couldn't be used, but I still get a kick from the idea
If they switched out the little tab on the lock with an actual bolt handle it would've been way easier and faster to open and close the breech. It's still a really neat design. Thanks for uploading.
Rather unique cartridges for this gun too.
Rather than the usual folded paper tail, there was ~ 7-8 strings of yarn forming a tail. Before loading, the soldier pulled out the tail, opening up the cartridge's rear !
Wa no wait Government never changes
This is a fabulous design.
Really neat piece! Love your reviews.
...wow...7 years ago...how did I miss this for so long???
With a paper cartridge, does a mechanism in the rifle peirce it, exposing the powder for the percussion cap to spark, or do you simply rip it yourself and shove into the breach? Sorry if a stupid question!!
That name sounds familiar to me, somehow...
Fabian Lindner Think of all the one liners you could come up with if you bought this... 👌
You can choose one of the Lindners to be killed with... and youd be better of with the gun.
Fabian Lindner your 1st joke was good. the 2nd... not so much
Edgar Valencia the commenters' name is Fabien Lindner. The gun is the Lindner Carbine. Took me a second til I read the name
I thought the same. Turns out I was thinking of Lindt chocolate
Is the paper cartridge to be emptied into the breach? Or is the percussion cap expected to burn through the paper? The first one seems impractical for soldiers on horseback and the second one seems like it’d be extremely unreliable, or result in a lot of instances of the hammer falling and the piece firing possibly as long as seconds later. Can you enlighten me? Thanks!
Thanks for sharing that interesting information on the Linder carbine.
I"m curious what cavalrymen were meant to do about residue building up in the cartridge chamber. Wouldn't burnt paper etc build up in there and make it hard to fit a new cartridge?
No doubt, paper and powder would both build up fouling over time, but another advantage to this design is that the chamber is much easier to see and access with cleaning tools. Swab out the barrel as normal, then you can give the back of the chamber a good hard scrubbing where the crud accumulation would likely be worst. Ian didn't take the gun apart so I couldn't say for sure, but if it's at all feasible to remove the whole breech mechanism from the gun, you'd have access to the barrel from both sides, which is impossible on most muzzle loaders.
Maybe this is a bit of a silly question, but do percussion caps come in standard sizes, or did different rifles all take different types?
CrazyAlify Pretty much standardized, with a few outliers.
Thanks for the reply! Great video as usual.
Nice. No need for a ram rod. Just a ball starter would do the trick.
Wouldn't even need a starter - just shove the cartridge in by hand. The chamber is probably slightly overbore and the locking rotor / wedge brings the ball / bullet right up to the start of the rifling.
Interesting piece. Thanks for sharing Ian. I do love me black powder. I looked and wonder if they will get the expected price. With so few in existence it would be a great addition to any collection.
Not to be confused with the Lindner rifle from England.
So simple it only makes you wonder why no one made this earlier.
Wasn't there also a cartridge version with this same mechanism?
Though the action's design is simple enough, to manufacture precise-enough dimensions for something like this would had been prohibitively expensive before the 1830s. Before that, the majority of fine, precision metalwork would had been done with files, in conjunction with the keen eye and steady hand of a skilled craftsman. The lack of precision measuring tools always meant every part would had to be custom-fitted individually during the manufacturing process. These shortcomings would had made it very laborious and expensive for anyone to produce a firearm like a Lindner carbine.
It wasn't until the late 1700s that we began to mechanized the traditional gunsmithing process, first with filing jigs and templates that sped up the filing process, moving on to automatic filing machines powered by water and steam, than eventually culminating into a whole set of powered milling, boring, and lathing machines augmented by the advent of precision measurements as pioneered by Simeon North, John Hall, Joseph Whitworth, and others.
i really like that gun it's pretty cool, always amazes me the number of guns i've never even heard of so thank you for putting out these videos they are quite informative. any chance you guys will ever get your hands on a Borchardt C-93? would really like to see you do a detailed video on one im fascinated with that pistol
So precise! Unbelievable!
Very interesting and thanks for posting!
Looks like it would be problematic to clean; that waste and carbon would tend to build up underneath the breech loading mechanism.
William Cox I was wondering about that too, actually, though I can't imagine it's worse than getting around the gas tube inside a DI m-4's upper receiver.
But then, we have solvents and wire brushes, I guess.
William Cox I suspect a bigger problem when using this weapon is pressing down the breech tube after a few rounds when its hot. That and possible ignition as your shoving the cartridge into the hot breech!
@@MrReded69 I’m pretty sure that the rate of fire with these carbines is low enough that heating is not that big a problem.
I never understood the paper cartridge success.. doesn't the cap flame have to go through the paper to the powder....I have muzzleloaders but paper cartridges seems like a exercise in frustration? What about wet paper, or cuts,powder falling out?
Two questions: was that lifting chamber lifted on a spring or something else and did its resemblance to the Hall rifle cause any patent troubles?
The Hall rifle was patent expired (it was first manufactured in 1819 (with the last ones built in 1850).
Kind of slimy = Government in action.
An amazing engeneering design, stylish in fact :p
Shame it was already obsolete by the time they were done. :/
I could almost see this working on a self-loading rifle.
Was this manufactured in the NE US? On a recent visit to Manchester, NH I stayed at a motel on the amouskeg (?) river.
Yes the Amoskeag Mills were in Manchester NH. Most of the Mill buildings survive to this day, and are in current use in a variety of mostly commercial capacities. The story Ian told about Mr Lindner getting swindled by Uncle Sam is still part of local knowledge. I remember learning the story from my Grandfather.
Also you probably stayed at the Amoskeag Mills which are on the Merrimack River.
I wonder if there could be a flintlock version of this.
I wonder if there was ever any consideration given to converting the Springfield rifle-musket to that system. It would seem like a way to significantly increase firepower.
A huge number of standard pattern muskets were given the trap door breach conversion some years after the war. While this system probably offers a better gas seal, it is a bit more complicated to manufacture, and not well suited for use with metallic cartridges, which by this time were becoming standard.
This would have been good for infantry back then. We would have won a lot earlier if we had adopted them.
Is there a (hollow) spike in the back to puncture the paper? I assume so as this was common in other paper cartridge guns, but you didn't mention it...
Looks a lot like an upgrade of the Hall Rifle design
Interesting system. I'd never heard of that one. I wonder if Amoskeag was producing the Lindner carbines at the same time they were producing Pattern 1861 muskets? †hank you for producing these videos of unusual rifles and pistols. It is much easier to learn about them the way you present them.
Do you think the Lindner had any influence on the Austrain 1867 Werdnl Rifle? Because the Lindner reminds me a lot of the Werdnl's "Tabernacle" breech system.
The Waraboo in which point do this mechanism remind you on the tabernackel mechanism only in the turning movement is a equality but else?
Wouldn't opening the breech block with a hammer at half-cock fuse the thing and make it shoot out of the back end with consequences that are potentially deadly for the user?
It seems like this style of breech block would be a standard for hunters in black powder season these days. Forgotten?
Ah, that makes perfect sense. Stupid laws...
Bulsh1tMan Muzzleloading revolvers do, and this is essentially the same...
Sounds like it would've made a decent conscript rifle for units assigned to cities, at least for a while.
I'd buy one in a flintlock (if possible), so I wouldn't have to bother with caps out in the bush.
Good Lord this is a complex weapon for what it was supposed to accomplish! My hat's off to the designers, but it looks like it would be a nightmare in the trenches.
Hi Ian! Take a look at this! norskevaapen.no/?p=496 It's a Norwegian collectors website on Norwegian weapons, I think you might find the krag and "Kammerlader" (Chamber loader) especially interesting. And it's in english! Lots of fascinating reading and pictures.
HaakonTheViking Neat!
+Forgotten Weapons If you find a Kammerlader, will you make a video on it? Love hearing your oppinion on Norwegin guns :)
How did they cut those parts so precise in that era?
Thanks for the content
Really cool piece!
Wouldn't some paper get stuck in it? I thought that was a common problem with paper casings, was there a way to get it out?
I have a rather "strange" question: Where most of the Civil-War-Era-People dumb? - Why am I asking that? Because they almost exclusively made guns with crappy sights (Ian was saying that about a lot of civil-war-era weapons - be they rifles or revolvers!), I mean shouldn't that have been easy to figure out that what they called sights was just not working all that well? Is making a (protected at best) front post and a deeper notch so hard to figure out?
I wonder what ranges that flip type rear sight was calibrated for?
Once again, he's sight-shaming a gun and I'm cracking up. I'm so amused by his disapproval of iron sights. I want a compilation of all the occasions. Guess I'll have to make one myself some time.
He's saying that the iron sights on this gun are not good.
It has a tiny rear notch, and an equally tiny front blade. Making the sights very hard to use. The front blade needs to be large, in order to stand out for the shooter. Look at any gun known for good iron sights, and you'll see a much larger blade.
So, what's with the sudden transitions while you are still talking, like at 3:06 mark? Did you have to retake a scene or something?
+Ahri Man Usually means I made a verbal slip. I usually try to leave enough silent space to make the transitions clean, but sometimes it doesn't quite work.
@@ForgottenWeapons This peaked my interest as Manchester NH was the home of the Amoskeag Mills, and the Amoskeag Manufacturing Co. Although I believe that they also had a site in Nashua, and possibly Lowell Massachusetts. Having heard the story of Lindner, and his ill fated deal with the government from my Grandfather. I thought it might be interesting if you, or one of your fellow historians, would make a few videos about "Forgotten Weapons Manufacturer." I know that I would be interested. It also would give you a greater cross over appeal to people who are interested in engineering, but not firearms.
In any case thank you for your consideration, and your excellent channel.
Is that the same cocking lever that’s on the Burnside Carbine?
I you stuff the paper cartridge with powder and ball into the breech block, how is the paper cartridge punctured or opened so the cap can set it off?
Mickey Xtian The cartridge is probably of the thin, heavily nitrated types that were designed to be ignited by the explosion of the cap just like paper revolver cartridges.
Mickey Xtian Well, the Sharps, which was a falling block breachloader, used the closing breach like a cigar cutter to snip the back end off the paper cartridge exposing the powder directly to the cap.
Mickey Xtian Was thinking the same thing.
The Stoned Videogame Nerd Well you're probably well educated but you type like you're definitely stoned! LOL
I was wondering the same thing and trying to picture how that could be accomplished - possibly just a sharp point on the inside end of the channel carrying the ignition from the cap to the chamber, that slightly tore the cartridge as it was inserted.
Why are the sights on so many old guns terrible and tiny? Had they not figured out that you can shoot accurately with sights that are big enough to see easily?
Damn it even had a little 1800s bubba on the breech block handle
Forgive me for not being well versed on historical firearms, but what were the weapons and technological improvements that made this carbine obsolete? you mentioned Spencer carbines, and from what you were saying it seems there were a few other competing designs as well. What made these designs superior?
The Spencer carbine, was a repeating firearm, metal cartridge, faster loading and more accurate thanks to a rifled barrel and consistent powder loads in the metal cartridge.
Rifled barrels tube magizines in the stock that held 7 rounds and a good sized rimfire bullet for the spencer the other designs used the spencers bullet and loaded one shot from the back and were rifled thats why
How was the paper cartridge pierced so that the percussion cap could ignite it?
Probably burned through the paper and possibly thin paper where used to ensure the ignition
Was this a percussion cap firing system?? I’m a bit confused as to how it actually ignited the paper cartridge
Check out at 4:20. He doesn't say but yes, it is a paper cartridge percussion cap.
Very nice concept.
These look more primitive than the sharps which was already lightyears behind the dreyse and chassepot which were becoming obsolete to metallic cartridges so it's no wonder that the army lost interest in it.
don't forget paper cartridges were cheap and could be made at home
Will you be able to do a video on JFK's M1 Garande (which is up for auction in Sept.)?
Yawn
ADKwarriors No...there really isn't anything for me to show. It's just a very nice looking M1 that happened to be owned by Kennedy.
Hello this is a good channel..
how was the paper cartridge pulled out of that hole? i dont think anyone would put a finger in there to pull it out.
+Pprokop87 It would combust when you fired - nothing left to pull out.
it makes sense, but will there be no ash remain after every shot? paper should leave ash in about 1/4 of its volume, so will continuing to fire not cover the far back of the chamber? or is the burst of black powder sufficent to burst the ash into the barrel?
on the other side, the ignition is on the side of gun and about 1-1,5cm from the end of a chamber to prevent blocking the ignition path, like the earlier front loaded guns?
and thank you for your answer.
+Pprokop87 Any leftover ash will be blown out the barrel.
Forgotten Weapons another reason to stay behind the gun when it fires.
Ian . I see this as the North keeping a contractor under contract ,from makeing guns for the south
Is there a website you use to find info on all these weapons? I am trying to do a report on experimental/ not widely used civil war cavalry carbines.
This is my new favorite FW episode and I wish I could afford to place a bid on that puppy. I live < 20 miles from where that was manufactured and go to college in a building that was built by the Amoskeag Manuf. Co.
By the way, around here we pronounce it am-mo-skayg
how is the breach allowed to hinge as well as slide forward?
The lug is straight, the hood is threaded onto the barrel.
The most pirate looking gun I've ever seen.
1:43
Government dick move. LOL
cool stuff man, videos came qiuck, nice
Clever design
Ian, didn't the union have both combustible and non-combustible paper rifle cartridges? This would require combustible cartridges, would it not?
Very cool system.
do you think it could actually be loaded on horseback?
Jeffrey Reardon Maybe if they had a holster it could be done with one hand.
All it needs is taser mount ...and bam you get the Mandalorian rifle.
It almost feels like they made him do this one
Hey Ian. I suspect this might be the basis for The Mandalorian's Disruptor Rifle. Care to comment on that possibility?
that's the first thing i thought as well when i saw the loading mechanism. though the mechanism in the Disruptor Rifle faces the other way (he loads from the back, and not from the front)
@@EliasKaydanius it's not just the loading mechanism, however. The octagonal component of the barrel assembly ahead of the loading assembly, before breaking into a smooth barrel with no wood grip. A few more elements of the loading area. Trigger assembly. The least matching element is barrel length (closer to a springfield) and the stock (looks totally custom, as well as being too long)
Have done anything with pin fire?
Never heard of the Lindner carbine...interesting.