The biggest fail for an episode supposedly made to sell Soundwave and Blaster? Neither of them deploy _any_ of their cassettes. You know, the primary gimmick of both of their toys?
Carnage In C-Minor will never not be hilarious with how much of a technical disaster it is. It’s the Shockmaster entrance of animation with how much it’s become infamous because of what went wrong wrong. B.O.T is just atrocious all around. Bad scripting, subpar animation that dips into rubbish territory, awful one-off characters and makes the new toy look like a chump in his debut appearance. The fact it’s the episode that ends off the pre-Movie era is all the more offensive, more so if it had been the last episode the show period.
Carnage in C-Minor was the test run for the Zelda CD-I cut scene movies 😂 I swear watching the reruns while playing Zelda on the NES caused my brain to see this planet as Hyrule. Too bad Springer was not in this episode, because triple changer Link would actually be nice.
@@crispincain1665 Hopefully it would be more Razor Beast and less Randy 😂. If Nintendo ever gives Hasbro the license to turn their characters into Transformers it must be mandatory not to use Gold Plastic.
Another issue with Carnage in C-Minor that you didn't bring up: The music aliens' voices were all run through a synthesizer or something, so their "musical language" sounded even more annoying.
In my opinion B.O.T. is still worse for how dumb and convoluted it is. Carnage in C-Minor is silly for sure being about an alien Brown Note of Doom, but at least revolved around a concept that made sense to involve both Soundwave and Blaster like it did.
One of the biggest problems with me for B.O.T. was, iirc, the fact that that was the last episode that we got before the movie. Of all episodes to end on, they chose that one?
I remember watching Carnage in C Minor as a kid over 30 years ago and thinking "This is just BAD". It left an everlasting impression on me with how it managed to excel to such a high degree of dumpster fireosity in so many ways. The episode has been a joke between my siblings and I for literal decades. It's that bad.
well, how about one of my nostalgic favorites that I know objectively is pretty bad, The Girl Who Loved Powerglide? The point of the episode was to showcase Powerglide, who was a novelty because at the time he was one of the few autobot planes, but the titular "girl" was a woman in her early 20's who was such a petulant crybaby the first time I saw the episode I thought she was 10, and her whole gimmick is that anything technological around her would screw up and malfunction like she was some kind of tech destroying gremlin*. They spend half the episode trying to get a mind zapping device to work on her only to run into every kind of glitch they can; the electrodes won't stick to her head, the wires weren't connected, the machine won't turn on, you actually start to FEEL the decepticon's frustration. The most famous shot of the episode is the end where the girl kisses Powerglide and after he puts up a macho facade opens his chest to reveal a heart drawn in lights, which for all we know is a serious malfunction caused by coming into physical contact with the aforementioned human gremlin... * I'm using "gremlin" as a reference to World War 2 planes and other machines that had to be manufactured so fast they didn't have time for quality assurance, leading to malfunctions that pilots and mechanics referred to as gremlins in the mechanics.
Don't forget it was the episode immediately after Search for Alpha Trion where Moonracer was introduced, aka Powerglide's girlfriend. So he finds out his girlfriend is alive and then the next episode falls in love with a human woman.
@@Prime_The_Great HA! I had no idea, the cartoon was created the year before I was born, and my experience is from the syndicated reruns when I was only about 4 years old, the Girl Who Loved Powerglide was the first episode I remembered seeing, so where it takes place in continuity is something I wasn't privy to.
The two things they bashed into our heads that annoiyed me was the, "his rubber tires entalated him" and how shockwave could hang onto control of cybertron, but couldnt stop autobots from using the space bridge
I have an idea for a discussion, should transformer characters have a set design and characterization for each iteration? A good example is g1 wheeljack vs tfp wheeljack. An inventor with a face plate and glowing fins on his head or a commando with a retractable faceplate. I prefer that the writer and designer do what they want instead of the same character being repeated over and over.
I decided to rewatch these episodes and decide which one I thought was worse. B.O.T. There's a line where Starscream says "Your stupid warriors are just standing there." talking about the Combaticons. Apparently the writers for this episode forgot that Starscream originally built the Combaticons in the first place so this is really self deprecation when you really think about it. Also this episode has one of the few instances where Megatron's gun mode is held by someone OTHER than Starscream. It's Soundwave who catches Megatron in gun mode in this episode and honestly I hate the fact that Starscream is usually the one holding Megatron so much that one moment alone actually makes this one of the better episodes in my opinion. It makes so much more sense to have Soundwave holding his gun mode since he's actually loyal to Megatron than for Starscream to be the one in this position. I also wanted to mention that this episode shows off that the Protectorbots actually have their own base which feels like inspiration for what would eventually become Transformers Rescue Bots years later. I can see why this episode might be hated so much but it doesn't really feel that much worse than another G1 episode. Carnage in C-Minor, there's a lot of weirdness to the animation in this episode. Even looking at the Wiki page the list of animation errors for this episode is HUGE. Some of the weirder errors I noticed is combiners appearing TINY in this episode. Like fully combined they're the same size as regular Autobots and Decepticons and then when separated they're small enough for Ultra Magnus to pick up two of the Constructicons and bang them together. Broadside is also gigantic for a few seconds and then shrinks down for the rest of the episode. Soundwave has an Autobot insignia TWICE which is very obviously a reuse of the same animation. Also the scene of Galvatron and Soundwave holding hands comes from this episode. Both Soundwave and Blaster describe the harmony as "the most beautiful music" they've ever heard but honestly, this entire episode sounds like the worst Autotune I've ever heard... and this was before Autotune was even really a thing but I've heard drunk karaoke that sounded better than this... and NO ONE is good when they're singing karaoke while drunk, they just think they sound better than they actually do. Even professional singers are terrible at it. I've even heard elementary school choirs that sound better than the singing in this episode. Also for an episode that so heavily focus on Soundwave and Blaster, neither of them really use their cassettes in this episode. Blaster never transforms into his boom box mode. They felt completely wasted in an episode where they were meant to be the main focus. Soundwave at least does stuff by recording parts of the sonic weapon but even that's really dumb how it does it as the characters just randomly start singing parts of it one at a time for no reason. Well the first part they actually trick Allegra into singing for them but the other two parts they just sing on their own for no reason when ever Soundwave happens to be near by almost as if the script needed them to sing there but forgot to write in a motivation for them to do so. I thought I could actually come up with an episode worse than either of these... and maybe I still could if I didn't limit my search to only G1 episodes, but after rewatching them again... yeah I don't see why B.O.T. is considered the worst episode of all time, I can understand why it's not great but there are still enjoyable parts to it and it's pretty average for any G1 episode. Carnage in C Minor however is actually painful to watch, the "singing" feels like an assault on my ear drums and I regret watching it with headphones. Also I actually LIKE Broadside and this is one of the few episodes that features him as a main character but they used the WRONG animation model for the ENTIRE EPISODE! The design they used is based on an unreleased prototype with a different head and it looks HORRIBLE. I think this is the only episode that uses that animation model so it doesn't match the rest of his appearances in the show or the toy that it was actually suppose to be trying to sell. I'm a sucker for Transformers with aquatic alt modes, main reason why I love Broadside so much is because he's one of the few aquatic Transformers out there... and this episode even made me hate Broadside. He looks so ugly with that design. Maybe... MAYBE if the episode were redone with all new animation to clear up the many MANY errors and the horrible autotune was replaced by three people who can ACTUALLY sing this could have been a passable episode but as it is, this might be one of the worst episodes of all time. I'm giving it a little bit of slack because it's still a G1 episode so I'm not expecting quality animation or writing and that's the only reason why I think there are worse episodes beyond just the G1 cartoon but if we're sticking to just G1 on it's own, I don't think there is an episode that can top this.
Yeah I'd definitely agree that Carnage is worse for the exact reason you specified: B.O.T. left more of an impression on audiences. Many people remember B.O.T for giving an underutilized character like Swindle the spotlight, leading him to become a bit of a breakout character. What do most people remember Carnage in C Minor for? ...the animation errors.
Yeah, I'll agree that without B.O.T., we'd never have gotten the amazing take on Swindle from Animated. This was where he lived up to his name for the first time.
I remember the TJTV review of Carnage in C-Minor. Love the idea of a character accidentally killing the Cassettecons by accidentally hitting one of Soundwave's buttons... Other than Ratbat, do we see the other cassettes after this? If I had to do a vs. of bad eps for Beast Wars like in this for the worst, I'd probably say it'd either be The Low Road or Go with the Flow.
Decepticon Day is far more stupid, because not only are the humans incredibly gullible, but Megatron doesn't even wait for the Autobots to leave earth before dropping the ruse. He has no one to blame for his plan failing but himself.
I actually like Megatron’s plan in BOT, it really just needs the added goal of fucking Earth up generally via the tide control, probably as the main objective with harnessing hydroelectric energy as a bonus
Carnage in C-Minor has the advantage of being fixable. Same story with better animation and a little more effort in showing the Eurythmans' language actually _was_ incomprehensible (like, say, not having actual words, only tones). B.O.T. can't be fixed just by fixing the animation and putting in a minor tweak.
On another note, got an idea for a versus. Which was the better Optimus (as a character specifically)? Primal from Beast Wars, or Prime from Animated? I lean towards the latter personally.
Dinobots Vs. Other Anime & Cartoon Dinosaurs/Dinosaur Robot Hero Groups Predictions (For Comparison's Sake, Assuming The Dinobots Are Fully Geared To Go For The Fight, i.e. No Grimlock Being A Dumbo & Such Character Traits. )
what i find the most shocking thing about B.O.T. is that it was the final episode of season 2,meaning that this the final time we saw all the beloved season 1 characters before they got killed off in the movie.While carnage i C-minor is a crime against humanity in fact,season 3 as a whole is a crime against humanity
I agree Carnage was the worst, but I'll add my takes to yours I wouldnt say the taping mouth part looks sexist or misogynist, the problem is it looks bad regardless of who is taping whose mouth. So it's like a sever case of the writer writing something stupid, and NOBODY stopped production to think how bad this looks. I would also point out a bit of a peeve about the dialogue, when Bruticus falls apart, Starscream suggests its "theres a problem with your robot megatron"... correct me if Im wrong but Starscream made Bruticus, so if anything it should be Megatron asking Starscream what the malfunction was! The final sin with B.O.T is this was season 2's send off, RIGHT BEFORE the 1986 movie, season 2 deserved a much better send off than B.O.T. This is almost as bad as having a relationship break up via getting ghosted, especially as you realise about 80% of the original characters were wiped out or changed in the movie. As for Carnage, jeez that whole episode was a perfect example of what happens when you rush EVERYTHING, this episode was the most rushed episode in season 3 (in my opinion of course). Story peeve - no explanation to WHY was elegra got mad and stormed off. Was it just 'her time of the month' or something? There are moments where it feels like VA's are just reading lines instead of having a conversation, as the voices often lacked an appropriate tone of voice to match what was happening. Lastly the transformers battle looked generic, the armies landed in a field and started blasting in a perma stalemate, while our main characters went off to progress the plot, its pretty lazy. Carnage is hilariously bad for just SO MANY reasons and the biggest crime is... it would have been a good story if they had simply put a few more hours worth of effort into it. BOT by comparison is bad but also kind of sad this is the send off many of our original casts effectively got before dying in the movie.
First thing I think of when I hear about those aliens, is the power rangers zeo episode "another song and dance" where Tanya and Tommy had to sing all their lines
wait, if Soundwave can delete the tapes by accident, then that explains the rumble and frenzy argument, they keep getting deleted and rerecorded into the other body
I agree with you. There were so many animation errors in carnage it was absurd. Hot Spot in a scene with Defensor next to him, whaaat? And that annoying singing blah. However I would be child’s play at second with b.o.t. At third. To me these three episodes could have been left out. Thanks again for another fun and informative video!!
I honestly consider Child's play to be one of the worst episodes of the original cartoon The plot was stupid and the animation was hideous. It wasn't even an AKOM animated episode! It was animated by Toei!.
I don't quite get the hate for B.O.T, I think it's goofy and quirky in ways that I found entertaining! Carnage in C minor though is ear-piercing, ugly, and a pain to slog through. I don't even think I could finish the episode fully because of the voices lmao
I have yet to watch these episodes since I only have season one of G1, so I don't have any stake in this debate. But I'll love to watch and riff on both of these episodes when I get to them.
It terms of which I rather watch, give me Carnage in C Minor any day. Its dumb and weird, but kind of interesting in its own weird fan fictiony way. B.O.T. just feels super contrived and isn't interesting enough for those contrivances
One of my favorite episodes that featured Broadside and he fucking crushed devastator. It would've been awesome if devastator caught him and threw him but the fact that devastator tried and just got crushed was so funny to me.
even as a Geewunner I have to say that G1 had a lot of really awful episodes. B.O.T. only sticks out to me because it was the last episode before half of the cast gets killed in the '86 movie, a waste of a good finale and overall an unworthy end of an era. Carnage is just bad because of the annoying singing and the goofy characters.
Theory: Bruticus is the only combiner that won’t fuck it up. Menasor’s crazy and Devastator is made of people who are gonna wanna tinker with the weapon of the week and Megatron can’t deal with any alterations to the plan
The overload button. The Death-star McGuffin. A plot device override for the good guys to defeat the bad guys incase no one can figure out a good logical scientific way to have the good guys win that makes any sense. There is no way that we can defeat this. Excuse me, I just got intel telling me that we can blow up the (Insert name of over the top doomsday machine here.) By shooting, or whatever method needed, in this particular but extremely hard to get to place. I forgot which one of the Arialbots it was, but he ended up going to a East Euphrates junk dealer for parts after his team got damaged. Retcon it and have Blaster adjust their linguistic translators. (How else could they understand perfect English or any other Language on this planet?) The erase button. It wouldn't work on any of the Minions for Soundwave or Blaster. Actual cassettes have a design on the bottom that has to be filled and covered before you can record or erase anything on them. I was born in late '69. I need to ask your opinion of the one with Spike, Carly, several Autobots and Decepticons go back to the Time of Knights.
Here's a good debate. Do the flipside of this video. What's the best episode of G1? My favorite that I can think of at the moment is Call of the Primitives, with that amazing animation style and heavy focus on my boy Grimlock, the only time season 3 Grimlock wasn't a bozo.
Those guys were honor roll versions of Beavis and Butthead. I think the Constructicons and Stunticons ended up with most of the personalities from the combiners. Outside those groups you had Silverbolt having the worst phobia for a supersonic transport, Slingshot being a bigger jerk than any con, and Swindle being by far the best character out of any team. team.
I thought carnage in C minor was going to be about carnage having to learn how to sing to win a competition so that Megatron can turn the trophy into a satellite dish of doom. But that's just me...
The fact that bot ends in a joke of bounding and gagging a teen girl makes it worse for me. Even though the animation is way better and it’s a spotlight for Swindle, who I love
For me, that's not the big issue, it's the fact that ending joke proves that after all of that, those two learned *_absolutely nothing!_* Any other time you had characters like them in _any_ kids show going through _anything_ like that episode, they'd have come out of it realizing how much they screwed up. Sorry, the Karma Houdini trope is one that drives me up the wall.
even if scatman did not passed away after the movie, I doubt even jazz would save carnage bot was a waste of characters, this was ironhide last episode to something before they killed him off in the movie and he was missed used
Besides the fact that TJ should have done this entire video singing, I do agree that the animation errors are a lot rougher to get through than the bad plot. As fun as these shows are, bad plots are nothing unusual for this era of children's entertainment. I'm not sure if this is anything people REALLY get upset over, but I think the 86 movie from a story perspective would have been way lamer had Optimus never died. The final battle between him and Megatron, as much of a merchandising mechanism as it may have been, was AWESOME.
I think the sexism in BOT was deliberate. There's a PSA where the girl wants to skateboard with the boys but they underestimate her. Powerglide reminds them not to judge people. "Now we know." "And knowing is half the battle!" P.S.: Optimus Prime vs Dai Atlas. Who was the better military commander?
carnage at least showed us soundwave legitimately enjoying music and not just being a villain loyal to megatron. I think Autobop almost did but it seemed more like just a sonic blastoff.
B.O.T. is bad, but at least it has not only Swindle, but the Protectobots as well. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's one of only two S2 episodes where they're featured. Carnage in C-Minor I believe is the only episode where Soundwave shows emotion. I still remember his "My tapes! You've erased my tapes!" line.
As a kid I hated the ep “Only Human” because I hated seeing the Autobots gets overtaken by humans. It’s still one if my least liked eps and I generally love the third season of G1.
That one has the advantage of being the _closest_ G1 ever came to a G.I. Joe crossover episode, which they couldn't do for legal reasons. It's why the guy who's totally not Cobra Commander is wearing the stereotypical trenchcoat and fedora disguise and his battlecry gets cut off by a coughing fit.
I actually like that episode... and Transformers Animated did a similar thing that lasted for TWO episodes. The only thing I don't like about that episode is that all the Autobots end up with the same cloths on just in different colors that match their usual colors. I like how Animated gave the Autobots unique appearances that actually better match their personalities, and also still also match their color schemes but it still makes them a lot more visually interesting than just different colored overalls. And I don't even like G.I. Joe but I still thought it was kind of cool to see a sort of crossover even if I don't really know the character that well.
I feel like B.O.T. is more meant to hype up Defensor than Bruticus. After all, the Combaticon combiner has two other episodes to highlight him. And Rumble is PURPLE.
Hard to decide for me. I personally liked Zi-O more since they at least took advantage of their premise while Ghost, for whatever reason, kind of dropped the whole tension of the protagonist dying forever. It was disappointing how many second chances he was getting instead of just having a longer timescale for resurrection. On the other hand, Ghost had a concrete plan in mind while Zi-o suffered with having to accommodate multiple writers in the same show, making some characters look bipolar and inconsistent. I do think both shows are still enjoyable with the proper mindset, but first watch is rough.
I'm going in reverse for dramatic reasons. Carnage in C Minor: I'm a musician, and this was as insulting, as it is annoying. The main thing is that, the aliens words weren't obscured, or should I lyrically metamorphic enough to have to be translated. You knew what they meant, and it just made all the bots, except Soundwave, and Blaster, just downright stupid. Bot: I wasn't interestingly. It introduced three ne characters, that were literally random, and added absolutely nothing to the franchise. A spotlight on Swindle, and he wasn't even on stage, so to speak. He was literally a plot point. The biggest insult is that it was the end of season 2. Literally the season finally. Not 2 parter. No arching story. Just a random episode, with random characters, with a random plot. The entire episode is useless. I wish we fans could talk Hasbro into actually translating the Finally we never got. Scramble City. It should be placed within western Transformers G1 cartoon canon. It could be a separate add on, but I don't see any reason it wouldn't be profitable.
Swindle is my favorite Decepitcon so I do find the first part of B.O.T. enjoyable until the human show up. Carnage in C-Minor is over all still a more painful experience to have to watch. I think there are still worst episodes of Transformers out there like Carnival from Armada and Nature Calls from Animated are also in the running for worst episode of Transformers.
I hate when they focus a whole episode on human characters yeah B.OT. was the worst in that aspect and C-Minor was terrible with all the animation errors but I did like the ending when they attack Metroplex at the end and he didn't know what to do.
Carnage is worse than it would be due to the animation. B.O.T is just bad, and especially as it was the last pre-movie episode. It made Bruticus look weak also. I don't mind Carnage as the animation now makes it unique and quirky.
all I got for a debate is to say Energon is not the absolute worst piece of TF animated media ever made. one can make arguments about RID2015 or the netflix series or the prime wars trilogy I imagine since I don't hear much in terms of positive points
The kids in BOT where in Benjamin Franklin Pierce High School, not college. Also even though it was bad, it was nepotism. The kids in the story were literally some of the children of the writers, a producer and a director. :) Carnage in C Minor is somehow worse. BOT was the last 1986 set episode so it's like a weak finale. If they could have blasted the dude that easily, why didn't they just destroy Bruticus immediately every time? The Girl who Loved Powerglide is worse.
I find B.O.T to probably be the worst episode. I know carnage has some awful animation errors, but I actually quite like the story line (I am a musician, so I could be bias) Idea for debate or tier list : "Ranking Japanese G1 combiner toys that were unreleased in the west" which ones could easily be forgotten (repaints) right up to huge disappointments
I think an interesting debate would be on what you find to be the best Episode. Also, in my opinion, the Episode with Carbombiya is the worst in my opinion since its extremely offensive.
I personally feel that Triple Takeover is, while not the worst, an amazingly stupid episode. A friend and I watched it at the start of the year and we were both howling with laughter the whole way through.
Both my favorite and least favorite episodes of G1 are in Season 3. Web World is my favorite, Carnage in C Minor my least favorite. Carnage is painful.
I'd be really interested in knowing the power level of the original g1 cartoon, full on shonen style, devastator is strong but bruticus is stronger, but is bruticus stronger than menasor? kinda of like that then again by that logic raul is stronger than megatron
Probable unpopular comment. I haven't watched either of these 2 episodes in years, but do remember how bad/ off they were. However in the last year I watched Armada & Energon all the way through in order. I found myself skipping most of the parts w/ the screechy kids. There was so much off/ contradictory between those 2 series, but overall they were mostly enjoyable & watchable. I started Cybertron & only got 2-3 episodes in as I found it boring with jarring unmatched animation. I didn't care to finish the series, but maybe I missed something cool. That being said I would still rather re-watch the G1 goofiness than go back to the trilogy of AEC (though a lot of the toys are cool).
While I agree these episodes were terrible--character, plot, motivations--I like the concept of the planet of C-Minor. Could be an interesting society to build on. Really, really build on. Like build it up like Gigantion build it. Outside of the transformers universe.
I'm late to the party, but I would say B.O.T. is worse. Carnage in C Minor is dumb, but when you take out the animation errors the story in no worse than any of the other goofier G1 episodes. B.O.T. is on a whole other of bad story wise.
I agree with you. B.O.T. is bad but at least I can rewatch it. Carnage in C Minor I couldn't stand the first time I watched it. I can't stand watching it again. Carnage in C Minor is the worst episode in my book, hands down.
I only saw these two episodes relatively recently (like, this year) and I think B.O.T. is much, much worse than Carnage in C-Minor. Carnage in C-Minor is just typical cheesy fantasy stuff for an 80s cartoon. I find it weirdly charming in how dumb it is. But B.O.T. had dumb and convoluted stuff with Transformers like Bruticus being oneshot'd, and then the weird "hey, here's this robot with a decepticon inside!" stuff that revolved around extremely unlikable and annoying human characters. Then, the sexism that has aged horribly. I don't think Swindle, well, swindling someone is enough to even somewhat redeem that episode.
Maybe it's because I didn't see Child's Play until I was a teenager, but that was the worst episode to me. Carnage in C-Minor is right up there with it, though. B.O.T. wasn't that bad in comparison as far as I'm concerned.
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The biggest fail for an episode supposedly made to sell Soundwave and Blaster? Neither of them deploy _any_ of their cassettes. You know, the primary gimmick of both of their toys?
Before anyone asks, I checked the wiki page for the episode, specifically character appearances. No cassettes whatsoever.
To be fair, if you were talking about Autobop, Blaster didn't have his Cassettes
@mecha53107 True, but Carnage in C Minor was meant as their spotlight, and was handled in the worst way possible.
Carnage In C-Minor will never not be hilarious with how much of a technical disaster it is. It’s the Shockmaster entrance of animation with how much it’s become infamous because of what went wrong wrong.
B.O.T is just atrocious all around. Bad scripting, subpar animation that dips into rubbish territory, awful one-off characters and makes the new toy look like a chump in his debut appearance. The fact it’s the episode that ends off the pre-Movie era is all the more offensive, more so if it had been the last episode the show period.
Carnage in C-Minor was the test run for the Zelda CD-I cut scene movies 😂 I swear watching the reruns while playing Zelda on the NES caused my brain to see this planet as Hyrule. Too bad Springer was not in this episode, because triple changer Link would actually be nice.
Dear god...imagine a Ganondorf/Beast Ganon transformer...
@@crispincain1665 Hopefully it would be more Razor Beast and less Randy 😂. If Nintendo ever gives Hasbro the license to turn their characters into Transformers it must be mandatory not to use Gold Plastic.
Another issue with Carnage in C-Minor that you didn't bring up: The music aliens' voices were all run through a synthesizer or something, so their "musical language" sounded even more annoying.
In my opinion B.O.T. is still worse for how dumb and convoluted it is. Carnage in C-Minor is silly for sure being about an alien Brown Note of Doom, but at least revolved around a concept that made sense to involve both Soundwave and Blaster like it did.
One of the biggest problems with me for B.O.T. was, iirc, the fact that that was the last episode that we got before the movie. Of all episodes to end on, they chose that one?
Carnage in C-Minor is worst in terms of animation, for story; I go with B.O.T.
Cleaning up after the dog or cleaning out the litterbox.
I remember watching Carnage in C Minor as a kid over 30 years ago and thinking "This is just BAD". It left an everlasting impression on me with how it managed to excel to such a high degree of dumpster fireosity in so many ways. The episode has been a joke between my siblings and I for literal decades. It's that bad.
I feel like a tier list of G1 episodes is in order.
well, how about one of my nostalgic favorites that I know objectively is pretty bad, The Girl Who Loved Powerglide? The point of the episode was to showcase Powerglide, who was a novelty because at the time he was one of the few autobot planes, but the titular "girl" was a woman in her early 20's who was such a petulant crybaby the first time I saw the episode I thought she was 10, and her whole gimmick is that anything technological around her would screw up and malfunction like she was some kind of tech destroying gremlin*. They spend half the episode trying to get a mind zapping device to work on her only to run into every kind of glitch they can; the electrodes won't stick to her head, the wires weren't connected, the machine won't turn on, you actually start to FEEL the decepticon's frustration. The most famous shot of the episode is the end where the girl kisses Powerglide and after he puts up a macho facade opens his chest to reveal a heart drawn in lights, which for all we know is a serious malfunction caused by coming into physical contact with the aforementioned human gremlin...
* I'm using "gremlin" as a reference to World War 2 planes and other machines that had to be manufactured so fast they didn't have time for quality assurance, leading to malfunctions that pilots and mechanics referred to as gremlins in the mechanics.
Don't forget it was the episode immediately after Search for Alpha Trion where Moonracer was introduced, aka Powerglide's girlfriend. So he finds out his girlfriend is alive and then the next episode falls in love with a human woman.
@@Prime_The_Great HA! I had no idea, the cartoon was created the year before I was born, and my experience is from the syndicated reruns when I was only about 4 years old, the Girl Who Loved Powerglide was the first episode I remembered seeing, so where it takes place in continuity is something I wasn't privy to.
"Everyone is in a D&D game and they all rolled up Bards"
I mean... you're not wrong...
The two things they bashed into our heads that annoiyed me was the, "his rubber tires entalated him" and how shockwave could hang onto control of cybertron, but couldnt stop autobots from using the space bridge
I have an idea for a discussion, should transformer characters have a set design and characterization for each iteration? A good example is g1 wheeljack vs tfp wheeljack. An inventor with a face plate and glowing fins on his head or a commando with a retractable faceplate. I prefer that the writer and designer do what they want instead of the same character being repeated over and over.
I decided to rewatch these episodes and decide which one I thought was worse.
B.O.T. There's a line where Starscream says "Your stupid warriors are just standing there." talking about the Combaticons. Apparently the writers for this episode forgot that Starscream originally built the Combaticons in the first place so this is really self deprecation when you really think about it. Also this episode has one of the few instances where Megatron's gun mode is held by someone OTHER than Starscream. It's Soundwave who catches Megatron in gun mode in this episode and honestly I hate the fact that Starscream is usually the one holding Megatron so much that one moment alone actually makes this one of the better episodes in my opinion. It makes so much more sense to have Soundwave holding his gun mode since he's actually loyal to Megatron than for Starscream to be the one in this position.
I also wanted to mention that this episode shows off that the Protectorbots actually have their own base which feels like inspiration for what would eventually become Transformers Rescue Bots years later. I can see why this episode might be hated so much but it doesn't really feel that much worse than another G1 episode.
Carnage in C-Minor, there's a lot of weirdness to the animation in this episode. Even looking at the Wiki page the list of animation errors for this episode is HUGE. Some of the weirder errors I noticed is combiners appearing TINY in this episode. Like fully combined they're the same size as regular Autobots and Decepticons and then when separated they're small enough for Ultra Magnus to pick up two of the Constructicons and bang them together. Broadside is also gigantic for a few seconds and then shrinks down for the rest of the episode. Soundwave has an Autobot insignia TWICE which is very obviously a reuse of the same animation. Also the scene of Galvatron and Soundwave holding hands comes from this episode.
Both Soundwave and Blaster describe the harmony as "the most beautiful music" they've ever heard but honestly, this entire episode sounds like the worst Autotune I've ever heard... and this was before Autotune was even really a thing but I've heard drunk karaoke that sounded better than this... and NO ONE is good when they're singing karaoke while drunk, they just think they sound better than they actually do. Even professional singers are terrible at it. I've even heard elementary school choirs that sound better than the singing in this episode.
Also for an episode that so heavily focus on Soundwave and Blaster, neither of them really use their cassettes in this episode. Blaster never transforms into his boom box mode. They felt completely wasted in an episode where they were meant to be the main focus. Soundwave at least does stuff by recording parts of the sonic weapon but even that's really dumb how it does it as the characters just randomly start singing parts of it one at a time for no reason. Well the first part they actually trick Allegra into singing for them but the other two parts they just sing on their own for no reason when ever Soundwave happens to be near by almost as if the script needed them to sing there but forgot to write in a motivation for them to do so.
I thought I could actually come up with an episode worse than either of these... and maybe I still could if I didn't limit my search to only G1 episodes, but after rewatching them again... yeah I don't see why B.O.T. is considered the worst episode of all time, I can understand why it's not great but there are still enjoyable parts to it and it's pretty average for any G1 episode. Carnage in C Minor however is actually painful to watch, the "singing" feels like an assault on my ear drums and I regret watching it with headphones. Also I actually LIKE Broadside and this is one of the few episodes that features him as a main character but they used the WRONG animation model for the ENTIRE EPISODE! The design they used is based on an unreleased prototype with a different head and it looks HORRIBLE. I think this is the only episode that uses that animation model so it doesn't match the rest of his appearances in the show or the toy that it was actually suppose to be trying to sell. I'm a sucker for Transformers with aquatic alt modes, main reason why I love Broadside so much is because he's one of the few aquatic Transformers out there... and this episode even made me hate Broadside. He looks so ugly with that design.
Maybe... MAYBE if the episode were redone with all new animation to clear up the many MANY errors and the horrible autotune was replaced by three people who can ACTUALLY sing this could have been a passable episode but as it is, this might be one of the worst episodes of all time. I'm giving it a little bit of slack because it's still a G1 episode so I'm not expecting quality animation or writing and that's the only reason why I think there are worse episodes beyond just the G1 cartoon but if we're sticking to just G1 on it's own, I don't think there is an episode that can top this.
Yeah I'd definitely agree that Carnage is worse for the exact reason you specified: B.O.T. left more of an impression on audiences. Many people remember B.O.T for giving an underutilized character like Swindle the spotlight, leading him to become a bit of a breakout character. What do most people remember Carnage in C Minor for? ...the animation errors.
Yeah, I'll agree that without B.O.T., we'd never have gotten the amazing take on Swindle from Animated. This was where he lived up to his name for the first time.
Soundwave and Galvatron holding hands-
Oh and the animation errors I guess
I remember the TJTV review of Carnage in C-Minor.
Love the idea of a character accidentally killing the Cassettecons by accidentally hitting one of Soundwave's buttons... Other than Ratbat, do we see the other cassettes after this?
If I had to do a vs. of bad eps for Beast Wars like in this for the worst, I'd probably say it'd either be The Low Road or Go with the Flow.
I love it when I am hearing music and I can just press the button that makes all the music fully dissapear, it's so relaxing : )
Decepticon Day is far more stupid, because not only are the humans incredibly gullible, but Megatron doesn't even wait for the Autobots to leave earth before dropping the ruse. He has no one to blame for his plan failing but himself.
It’s like a Vince Russo era WCW type of swerve with him.
“Yo, I’m actually gonna take over the world bro. It was just a ruse bro.”
I hate the fact that my favourite character Swindle had to be a part of B.O.T. at least later swindle would be in much better stories
I can feel that swindle deserves better
I actually like Megatron’s plan in BOT, it really just needs the added goal of fucking Earth up generally via the tide control, probably as the main objective with harnessing hydroelectric energy as a bonus
All the animation errors in Child's Play makes me think that episode was unfinished
Carnage in C-Minor has the advantage of being fixable. Same story with better animation and a little more effort in showing the Eurythmans' language actually _was_ incomprehensible (like, say, not having actual words, only tones). B.O.T. can't be fixed just by fixing the animation and putting in a minor tweak.
On another note, got an idea for a versus. Which was the better Optimus (as a character specifically)? Primal from Beast Wars, or Prime from Animated? I lean towards the latter personally.
Dinobots Vs. Other Anime & Cartoon Dinosaurs/Dinosaur Robot Hero Groups Predictions
(For Comparison's Sake, Assuming The Dinobots Are Fully Geared To Go For The Fight, i.e. No Grimlock Being A Dumbo & Such Character Traits. )
“and other noises you make when having a stroke”!
🤣😂🤣😂
So many animation errors in Carnage in C minor.
what i find the most shocking thing about B.O.T. is that it was the final episode of season 2,meaning that this the final time we saw all the beloved season 1 characters before they got killed off in the movie.While carnage i C-minor is a crime against humanity
in fact,season 3 as a whole is a crime against humanity
I agree Carnage was the worst, but I'll add my takes to yours
I wouldnt say the taping mouth part looks sexist or misogynist, the problem is it looks bad regardless of who is taping whose mouth. So it's like a sever case of the writer writing something stupid, and NOBODY stopped production to think how bad this looks.
I would also point out a bit of a peeve about the dialogue, when Bruticus falls apart, Starscream suggests its "theres a problem with your robot megatron"... correct me if Im wrong but Starscream made Bruticus, so if anything it should be Megatron asking Starscream what the malfunction was!
The final sin with B.O.T is this was season 2's send off, RIGHT BEFORE the 1986 movie, season 2 deserved a much better send off than B.O.T. This is almost as bad as having a relationship break up via getting ghosted, especially as you realise about 80% of the original characters were wiped out or changed in the movie.
As for Carnage, jeez that whole episode was a perfect example of what happens when you rush EVERYTHING, this episode was the most rushed episode in season 3 (in my opinion of course).
Story peeve - no explanation to WHY was elegra got mad and stormed off. Was it just 'her time of the month' or something?
There are moments where it feels like VA's are just reading lines instead of having a conversation, as the voices often lacked an appropriate tone of voice to match what was happening.
Lastly the transformers battle looked generic, the armies landed in a field and started blasting in a perma stalemate, while our main characters went off to progress the plot, its pretty lazy.
Carnage is hilariously bad for just SO MANY reasons and the biggest crime is... it would have been a good story if they had simply put a few more hours worth of effort into it.
BOT by comparison is bad but also kind of sad this is the send off many of our original casts effectively got before dying in the movie.
That other Blaster vs Soundwave episode was really bad too, Autobop
First thing I think of when I hear about those aliens, is the power rangers zeo episode "another song and dance" where Tanya and Tommy had to sing all their lines
wait, if Soundwave can delete the tapes by accident, then that explains the rumble and frenzy argument, they keep getting deleted and rerecorded into the other body
Carnage in C-Minor looks like an April Fools joke for how many errors are there
Beast Machines Transformers inspired the Michael Bay Transformers designs
I agree with you. There were so many animation errors in carnage it was absurd. Hot Spot in a scene with Defensor next to him, whaaat? And that annoying singing blah. However I would be child’s play at second with b.o.t. At third. To me these three episodes could have been left out. Thanks again for another fun and informative video!!
I am insulted that Child’s Play wasn’t one of the episodes beings discussed.
I honestly consider Child's play to be one of the worst episodes of the original cartoon
The plot was stupid and the animation was hideous. It wasn't even an AKOM animated episode! It was animated by Toei!.
That episode seriously deserves some sort of recognition for how bad the animation is. The alien kid's head and arm literally vanish in one scene!
the amount of times starscream changes colors in that episode is honestly hilarious lol
I remember watching carnage in c minor and I couldn’t watch 5 minutes of it it’s really bad boring and has too many mistakes
I don't quite get the hate for B.O.T, I think it's goofy and quirky in ways that I found entertaining! Carnage in C minor though is ear-piercing, ugly, and a pain to slog through. I don't even think I could finish the episode fully because of the voices lmao
I have yet to watch these episodes since I only have season one of G1, so I don't have any stake in this debate. But I'll love to watch and riff on both of these episodes when I get to them.
It terms of which I rather watch, give me Carnage in C Minor any day. Its dumb and weird, but kind of interesting in its own weird fan fictiony way.
B.O.T. just feels super contrived and isn't interesting enough for those contrivances
Still remember the amazing TJ TV episode about Carnage in C Minor
One of my favorite episodes that featured Broadside and he fucking crushed devastator. It would've been awesome if devastator caught him and threw him but the fact that devastator tried and just got crushed was so funny to me.
even as a Geewunner I have to say that G1 had a lot of really awful episodes. B.O.T. only sticks out to me because it was the last episode before half of the cast gets killed in the '86 movie, a waste of a good finale and overall an unworthy end of an era. Carnage is just bad because of the annoying singing and the goofy characters.
Theory: Bruticus is the only combiner that won’t fuck it up. Menasor’s crazy and Devastator is made of people who are gonna wanna tinker with the weapon of the week and Megatron can’t deal with any alterations to the plan
Carnage in C-Minor at least expanded the universe a bit with a new species.
I forgot that Michael Bay was in Carnage in C-Minor.
ALL HAIL the noises you make when you're having a stroke!!!!
I imagine the Eurithmians in a modern versions would sound like Vocaloids
Debate topic: Ironhide vs Kicker. Who was more detrimental to Transformers Energon?
The overload button. The Death-star McGuffin. A plot device override for the good guys to defeat the bad guys incase no one can figure out a good logical scientific way to have the good guys win that makes any sense. There is no way that we can defeat this. Excuse me, I just got intel telling me that we can blow up the (Insert name of over the top doomsday machine here.) By shooting, or whatever method needed, in this particular but extremely hard to get to place. I forgot which one of the Arialbots it was, but he ended up going to a East Euphrates junk dealer for parts after his team got damaged. Retcon it and have Blaster adjust their linguistic translators. (How else could they understand perfect English or any other Language on this planet?) The erase button. It wouldn't work on any of the Minions for Soundwave or Blaster. Actual cassettes have a design on the bottom that has to be filled and covered before you can record or erase anything on them. I was born in late '69. I need to ask your opinion of the one with Spike, Carly, several Autobots and Decepticons go back to the Time of Knights.
Here's a good debate. Do the flipside of this video. What's the best episode of G1? My favorite that I can think of at the moment is Call of the Primitives, with that amazing animation style and heavy focus on my boy Grimlock, the only time season 3 Grimlock wasn't a bozo.
You've also got The Golden Lagoon which is another top tier episode. Prime Target is also fun.
The Eurythmians always remind me of the Eurythmics the band from the 80s
a debate for next april who has the biggest chin in transformers :)
Those guys were honor roll versions of Beavis and Butthead.
I think the Constructicons and Stunticons ended up with most of the personalities from the combiners. Outside those groups you had Silverbolt having the worst phobia for a supersonic transport, Slingshot being a bigger jerk than any con, and Swindle being by far the best character out of any team. team.
I thought carnage in C minor was going to be about carnage having to learn how to sing to win a competition so that Megatron can turn the trophy into a satellite dish of doom. But that's just me...
The fact that bot ends in a joke of bounding and gagging a teen girl makes it worse for me. Even though the animation is way better and it’s a spotlight for Swindle, who I love
For me, that's not the big issue, it's the fact that ending joke proves that after all of that, those two learned *_absolutely nothing!_* Any other time you had characters like them in _any_ kids show going through _anything_ like that episode, they'd have come out of it realizing how much they screwed up. Sorry, the Karma Houdini trope is one that drives me up the wall.
even if scatman did not passed away after the movie, I doubt even jazz would save carnage
bot was a waste of characters, this was ironhide last episode to something before they killed him off in the movie and he was missed used
Let’s be honest, the names for the C Minor aliens would be right at home in Star Wars
Besides the fact that TJ should have done this entire video singing, I do agree that the animation errors are a lot rougher to get through than the bad plot. As fun as these shows are, bad plots are nothing unusual for this era of children's entertainment.
I'm not sure if this is anything people REALLY get upset over, but I think the 86 movie from a story perspective would have been way lamer had Optimus never died. The final battle between him and Megatron, as much of a merchandising mechanism as it may have been, was AWESOME.
I think the sexism in BOT was deliberate. There's a PSA where the girl wants to skateboard with the boys but they underestimate her. Powerglide reminds them not to judge people.
"Now we know."
"And knowing is half the battle!"
P.S.: Optimus Prime vs Dai Atlas. Who was the better military commander?
I love the title Carnage in C minor, I watched the episode and yea I think its awful.
As a kid B.O.T. was a favorite as I had it recorded on VHS.
carnage at least showed us soundwave legitimately enjoying music and not just being a villain loyal to megatron. I think Autobop almost did but it seemed more like just a sonic blastoff.
B.O.T. is bad, but at least it has not only Swindle, but the Protectobots as well. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's one of only two S2 episodes where they're featured.
Carnage in C-Minor I believe is the only episode where Soundwave shows emotion. I still remember his "My tapes! You've erased my tapes!" line.
lol I was just watching those two episodes and this new video gets recommended to me
As a kid I hated the ep “Only Human” because I hated seeing the Autobots gets overtaken by humans. It’s still one if my least liked eps and I generally love the third season of G1.
That one has the advantage of being the _closest_ G1 ever came to a G.I. Joe crossover episode, which they couldn't do for legal reasons. It's why the guy who's totally not Cobra Commander is wearing the stereotypical trenchcoat and fedora disguise and his battlecry gets cut off by a coughing fit.
I actually like that episode... and Transformers Animated did a similar thing that lasted for TWO episodes. The only thing I don't like about that episode is that all the Autobots end up with the same cloths on just in different colors that match their usual colors. I like how Animated gave the Autobots unique appearances that actually better match their personalities, and also still also match their color schemes but it still makes them a lot more visually interesting than just different colored overalls.
And I don't even like G.I. Joe but I still thought it was kind of cool to see a sort of crossover even if I don't really know the character that well.
I feel like B.O.T. is more meant to hype up Defensor than Bruticus. After all, the Combaticon combiner has two other episodes to highlight him.
And Rumble is PURPLE.
Since I’m a Kamen Rider fan, here’s my debate:
Which is worse, Ghost or ZI-O?
Hard to decide for me.
I personally liked Zi-O more since they at least took advantage of their premise while Ghost, for whatever reason, kind of dropped the whole tension of the protagonist dying forever. It was disappointing how many second chances he was getting instead of just having a longer timescale for resurrection.
On the other hand, Ghost had a concrete plan in mind while Zi-o suffered with having to accommodate multiple writers in the same show, making some characters look bipolar and inconsistent.
I do think both shows are still enjoyable with the proper mindset, but first watch is rough.
I'm going in reverse for dramatic reasons. Carnage in C Minor: I'm a musician, and this was as insulting, as it is annoying. The main thing is that, the aliens words weren't obscured, or should I lyrically metamorphic enough to have to be translated. You knew what they meant, and it just made all the bots, except Soundwave, and Blaster, just downright stupid. Bot: I wasn't interestingly. It introduced three ne characters, that were literally random, and added absolutely nothing to the franchise. A spotlight on Swindle, and he wasn't even on stage, so to speak. He was literally a plot point. The biggest insult is that it was the end of season 2. Literally the season finally. Not 2 parter. No arching story. Just a random episode, with random characters, with a random plot. The entire episode is useless. I wish we fans could talk Hasbro into actually translating the Finally we never got. Scramble City. It should be placed within western Transformers G1 cartoon canon. It could be a separate add on, but I don't see any reason it wouldn't be profitable.
A major problem with BOT is that such a piece of garbage was the final episode before the movie.
“Carnage In C-Minor” would go hard as a metal song title.
Call of the Primitives, because the amazing animation was totally misleading since the story was awful
Is cyclonus bombshell or skywarp
Swindle is my favorite Decepitcon so I do find the first part of B.O.T. enjoyable until the human show up. Carnage in C-Minor is over all still a more painful experience to have to watch.
I think there are still worst episodes of Transformers out there like Carnival from Armada and Nature Calls from Animated are also in the running for worst episode of Transformers.
carnage in c-minor was one of my favorite episodes as a kid
I hate when they focus a whole episode on human characters yeah B.OT. was the worst in that aspect and C-Minor was terrible with all the animation errors but I did like the ending when they attack Metroplex at the end and he didn't know what to do.
Transformers G1 is really weird looking back on it. Basically a bunch of boomers as robots.
Carnage is worse than it would be due to the animation. B.O.T is just bad, and especially as it was the last pre-movie episode. It made Bruticus look weak also. I don't mind Carnage as the animation now makes it unique and quirky.
all I got for a debate is to say Energon is not the absolute worst piece of TF animated media ever made. one can make arguments about RID2015 or the netflix series or the prime wars trilogy I imagine since I don't hear much in terms of positive points
The kids in BOT where in Benjamin Franklin Pierce High School, not college. Also even though it was bad, it was nepotism. The kids in the story were literally some of the children of the writers, a producer and a director. :)
Carnage in C Minor is somehow worse.
BOT was the last 1986 set episode so it's like a weak finale.
If they could have blasted the dude that easily, why didn't they just destroy Bruticus immediately every time?
The Girl who Loved Powerglide is worse.
Best g1 autobot leader optimus prime vs starsaber
I find B.O.T to probably be the worst episode. I know carnage has some awful animation errors, but I actually quite like the story line (I am a musician, so I could be bias)
Idea for debate or tier list : "Ranking Japanese G1 combiner toys that were unreleased in the west" which ones could easily be forgotten (repaints) right up to huge disappointments
I think an interesting debate would be on what you find to be the best Episode.
Also, in my opinion, the Episode with Carbombiya is the worst in my opinion since its extremely offensive.
I personally feel that Triple Takeover is, while not the worst, an amazingly stupid episode. A friend and I watched it at the start of the year and we were both howling with laughter the whole way through.
Both my favorite and least favorite episodes of G1 are in Season 3.
Web World is my favorite, Carnage in C Minor my least favorite.
Carnage is painful.
I'd be really interested in knowing the power level of the original g1 cartoon, full on shonen style, devastator is strong but bruticus is stronger, but is bruticus stronger than menasor? kinda of like that
then again by that logic raul is stronger than megatron
Probable unpopular comment. I haven't watched either of these 2 episodes in years, but do remember how bad/ off they were. However in the last year I watched Armada & Energon all the way through in order. I found myself skipping most of the parts w/ the screechy kids. There was so much off/ contradictory between those 2 series, but overall they were mostly enjoyable & watchable. I started Cybertron & only got 2-3 episodes in as I found it boring with jarring unmatched animation. I didn't care to finish the series, but maybe I missed something cool. That being said I would still rather re-watch the G1 goofiness than go back to the trilogy of AEC (though a lot of the toys are cool).
There should be a Transformers shattered glass bumblebee movie
Carage in C-Major IS the worst G1 Eps. It's wrong in so many ways and mistakes.
In my opinion Carnage in C Minor because I don't remember B.O.T
I still think the worst episodes were the Return of Optimus Prime and any episode with Alpha Trion.
Seeing the topic, first instinct is Return of Optimus Prime.
Carnage in c minor is the worst
Frenzy outlived Bumblebee, Soundwave, and Starscream - he was on pegs from 1984-1987.
While I agree these episodes were terrible--character, plot, motivations--I like the concept of the planet of C-Minor. Could be an interesting society to build on. Really, really build on. Like build it up like Gigantion build it. Outside of the transformers universe.
This is like debating between whether Mega Man X6 or X7 is worse, both are terrible in different ways.
I'm late to the party, but I would say B.O.T. is worse. Carnage in C Minor is dumb, but when you take out the animation errors the story in no worse than any of the other goofier G1 episodes. B.O.T. is on a whole other of bad story wise.
I agree with you. B.O.T. is bad but at least I can rewatch it. Carnage in C Minor I couldn't stand the first time I watched it. I can't stand watching it again. Carnage in C Minor is the worst episode in my book, hands down.
I only saw these two episodes relatively recently (like, this year) and I think B.O.T. is much, much worse than Carnage in C-Minor.
Carnage in C-Minor is just typical cheesy fantasy stuff for an 80s cartoon. I find it weirdly charming in how dumb it is. But B.O.T. had dumb and convoluted stuff with Transformers like Bruticus being oneshot'd, and then the weird "hey, here's this robot with a decepticon inside!" stuff that revolved around extremely unlikable and annoying human characters. Then, the sexism that has aged horribly. I don't think Swindle, well, swindling someone is enough to even somewhat redeem that episode.
Maybe it's because I didn't see Child's Play until I was a teenager, but that was the worst episode to me. Carnage in C-Minor is right up there with it, though. B.O.T. wasn't that bad in comparison as far as I'm concerned.