The Truth About Health and Safety in Construction
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ส.ค. 2024
- Health and Safety Gone Mad? Roger's rant: • Health and Safety Gone...
Roger's not finished with health and safety just yet, but this isn't a rant.
▶ HSE Information about health and safety at work:
www.hse.gov.uk
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VIDEO CHAPTERS
00:00 Intro
01:11 Health and safety
01:40 Culture
02:18 Hither Green
03:11 Zeebrugge disaster
04:27 Checks and balances
05:26 Clapham Junction
06:42 2012 Olympics
07:19 Safety price
09:25 Final thoughts
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#HealthAndSafety #PPE #HSE
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I'm now retired 68, started as a ships carpenter 1969, worked in Canada on high rise buildings for a number of years, came back to the UK and set up a small bulding company (I swept up and plastered I did the lot) never broken a bone in all that time just a few flesh wounds which didn't cause time off. I've been lucky but luck starts with being aware and staying focused on safety and using your noggin..
When I started out on sites in the mid-70s, you were expected to take your life in your hands; partially-boarded scaffolding, unsecured near-vertical ladders, and more. I was driving a dumper on my second day and I'd arrived at the site on a pushbike; they didn't even know if I could drive. Two weeks later, I was let loose on a forklift! When I returned to the sites after a two-decade plus break, it was the opposite, and I've been, for instance, pulled up for walking around the site without my gloves on and the guy in question wouldn't accept my explanation that I was on my way to the toilet. The problem with this stupidity is that it ferments a lack of respect for health and safety that manifests itself in people being genuinely unsafe and using the "health-and-safety-gone-mad" excuse. Also, once the deadlines for handover bonuses are on the horizon, many of the managers who get so pernickety about trivial details will suddenly metamorphose into utter maniacs who'd have you hanging by your bollocks from the ceiling if it gets the job done in time.
Sounds like a Kier job!!
@@harveysmith100 No, it was actually Lendlease, but let's face it, all the big nobs are the same: Balfours, Galliford, Wilmotts, etc. They all seem to have a plethora of young middle managers with little or no site knowledge bar a rudimentary grasp of H&S Beaurocracy.
@@Maltloaflegrande That about sums them all up.!!
Why on earth would the promote one of those dirty tradesman who may upset the apple cart!
I had it working in a prison , In the cells I kept banging my hard hat so I took it off , I was then threatened with expulsion from the site if I didn't put it back on . You couldn't swing a cat never mind have someone working above you .
For all those in favour of safety glasses say ‘eye’!!!
Eye Eye!
When I started in the industry 40 years ago I found people may not have been the sharpest pencil in the case, maybe lacked education but they were great workers with common sense.
Today I find it’s the opposite , very clever , well educated people but with no common sense which is one of the reasons I left a senior management role as I was sick of telling people to work safely.
I honestly could see myself ending up in prison because of the stupidity of other people witnessed on construction sites
That’s precisely why after getting my site management cert i stuck to the instructor’s advice and stayed away from this role. Thank you for confirming my suspicions. I too believe nowadays common sense is not so common any more.
Health and safety won't go jail the director will
Completely agree Roger. I'm a former h&a inspector. I left because of the inspectorate simply wanted to prosecute (anyone it seemed) as opposed to helping people to do the job safely. The legislation puts the duty of (legal)care upon senior management in addition to the worker. Safety gear and precautions (safe systems of work) MUST be fit for purpose, otherwise people simply will not use it. Totally agree about hard hats on roofing work. Nonsense in my view.
I did some work on site a few years ago, (normally work just for homeowners) and got reprimanded for not having the correct type of stepladder. Contacted the maker, and got sent a sticker, which when applied to my ladder, satisfied the contractor's agent. It is ridiculous !
I've worked on jobs where the safety officer wouldn't let any trade go up more than 3 treads on their steps unless they had a complete safety rail all the way round with a gate. I kid you not.
I’ve also had the hard hat fall. Lesson learnt: use hard hats with chinstraps. I think this is such an important safety measure that i would advocate it to be codified into law …
I want some safety gloves with string attached so I don't mislay them.
Like the wollen mittens we had as kids wherea pence of string would run through our sleeves keeping gloves inside coat.
Great video Roger
I was out last night in my local area Sidcup and was surprised to see a group of Scaffolders putting up scaffold in complete darkness , well apart from the street light and passing traffic.
Totally shocked not even head torches.
Wouldn't fancy being the first builder to work from that structure
Funny thing is our government introduced the CSCS card! I got one and not once in the 4 or 5 years did I get asked for it. If I did? Then from my own valuation of every building site..,!! I should be walking off!! It’s always different health n safety rules when money is mentioned!! Many a blind eye turned..?
I worked on a site in Spain with absolutely no health and safety.... Believe me i never complained again
H&S absolutely essential. Many poisons I worked with in the 70's and 80's have now long been banned as carcinogens, and at the time H&S was very poor, no overalls or masks ppe. etc. I remember Ricky Tomlinson talking about the numerous amounts of deaths and injuries on sites in the 60's before H&S was introduced .
"Safety rules are written in blood" sounds dramatic but is probably true - for every rule we have to follow, someone died or got seriously hurt to trigger that rule
Completely agree with this one, not quite your usual rant status though, more of a lecture and a rather good one actually.
Didn't know about the level of accidents for scaffolders, I thought under their working circumstances that they would be the most risk conscious of us all but there you go.
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Scaffolders just can't work within the guidelines. I did a scaffolder course and I have never seen anyone on site that followed the guidelines, not even close.
Every rule in the railway rule book is written in blood.
Nd there’s been a few big rail crashes since HG that were totally preventable and actually couldnt have happened in the fifties and sixties but modern bean counting management with no railway experience has allowed things to be removed that were there for a reason. So we got potters bar, Hatfield southall and Paddington
Also kings cross had been tarted up with nasty flammable plasic cladding over the chipped “ unsightly “ Edwardian tiles. So the smoke was lethal and the fire went out of control.
Good subject, I’ll check out your H&S gone mad vid next
You are right, there is a lot more that could be said about those tragedies. Maybe this is not the channel
@@SkillBuilder I get the feeling you may have already read”Red for Danger “ by LTC rolt. ?
The fascination in the UK with flammable wall coverings is scary
@@SkillBuilder I'm not so sure, Roger; a mini-series about construction disasters? Like those crane collapses? Practical Engineering has done some good ones on bridge and dam failures...
We had to do a course on the safety harness. The harness were put in the vans and the only time the came out was for the annual safety check. The job we were doing meant that the only useful time they were of any use was the last 4 foot off the floor. As there was nowhere to clip the harness, and the harness would catch on racking etc.
I worked offshore for the first half of my working life. Health and Safety laws didn't apply until after the Piper Alpha disaster and the Cullen enquiry. It was a mixed blessing, some things improved - on paper at least... other things just became a pain in the arse with paperwork. Boxes ticked to cover someone's arse. Learning lessons from one big accident really.
That's a big issue with H&S, and covering somebody else's arse. The key point here is that, whilst H&S is the responsibility of everyone, legal culpability slides uphill, and not down hill. It's not just a civilian thing, it is a thing in the military also. For example, the highest ranking person on the base (Commanding Officer) is legally responsible for the H&S on the base. Even if he has no expertise in the particular area (which is why things are delegated appropriately). On the fuel points for example, everybody knows not to smoke around fuel, it's so obvious. However, he still needs to make sure it's clearly marked, and everybody working there has read the rules. If somebody, for whatever reason decided to smoke and the fuel point exploded and killed somebody, and it turned out the signs had fallen down or were unsuitable, or the person wasn't briefed properly (whether it's obvious or not) then the responsibility for that incident would go straight to the commanding officer, not smokey Joe.
This means that somebody other than those working on the ground has a duty to ensure everyone is safe, which is a good thing. It can also mean that it's fairly easy for this person (or delegate) to implement a knee jerk (and possibly inefficient) policy or safety rule that's painful on the ground but easy on paper. It can be a proper pain in the arse, but that's why all these things should be reviewed regularly on site, and why industry should provide relevant feedback to the H&SE. Something like "Rule 112 to prevent accident A happening, in our experience makes the chances of accident B and C happening, here are some incident reports demonstrating this..".
Yes, it's paperwork that slows down the primary job, but injured/killed workers affect productivity in a serious way (not to mention the personal tragedy and trauma), and ultimately, generally I don't think people would be happy with workers in any industry working in unnecessarily dangerous conditions for the sake of expediency or profit. No matter how much we complain about roadworks or builds.
Better feedback from guys on the ground is key in my opinion. The guys upstairs make the broad rules triggered by a safety incident, and the guys on the ground should be refining it with real world experience.
@@lloyd4011 Last paragraph hits the nail on the head. 👍
I worked offshore in the Dutch sector
Every year management told us that the UK platforms were in a lot better condition according to the reports
But on the other hand we saw regular incidents from the UK platforms were steel was just completely corroded and fell 6m on the deck...
Or gratings that were so unsafe on UK platforms that entire areas where cordoned off, or scaffold boards were placed on the grating....
But management said it was all fine....
@@gasman413 Dutch platforms were in pretty good condition. From what I remember Dutch Health and Safety in the 80s/90s was pretty sensible. Seems like another life now 🤷♂️
Very true. UK standards far higher than anywhere else I've been including France and Germany. Quite rightly. UK pushed it in Europe then many leavers voted leave because they didn't want EU H&S restrictions! (I voted leave, it was a close decision, and I had other reasons). But there are trade-offs in productivity and in costs to the project. Overall, the actuarial costs of death and injury to the whole economy will be lower than for comparator countries. Also, at the lower end, in areas like East London, plenty of individuals and companies prepared to ignore H&S and their customers very happy to pay less so undercut more scrupulous competitors. There is a sort of psychological thing here - similar to security at work - a tendency to want everyone else to be thoroughly diligent while I, personally, can be more easy-going and not be inconvenienced.
A mate worked on the Brussels EU parliament building, and some of the local builders had bottles of beer with their lunch - right in view of those making the H&S rules !
@@thetessellater9163 Back in the 80s it was common for people to "go for a pint" at lunchtime, nobody batted an eyelid.
When working for an EPC I vividly remember a photo of a man wearing safety google's with shards of a shattered grinder blade embedded in the front.. that helped shape my safety attitude. 👍
I worked in an engineering factory as a young man, and was warned not to use the airline if I got anything in my eye. A previous employee had blown his eyeball out of its socket trying to remove a bit of swarf !!! There's one born every minute.
@@thetessellater9163 If only you could teach common sense... That's why the Darwin Awards exists! 🙄
@@thetessellater9163 Airlines can be deadly.
I used to work on a jig where we'd screw a valve in and run a pressure test to check the welds for leaks.
If you didn't screw it in properly, that thing would take off like a flying missile.
Hi. great vlogs keep em coming. I worked in construction for 35 plus years before I retired and the general use of ladders, placement, restrictions, type to use and safety was always a problem. We eventually had to train people and certify competance. Eventually making it part of the working at heights training. Not sure if you have method statements, risk assessment etc but training people how to manage risk is important. General vlog on ladders would be good....cheers
Have worked in a Family House Building business, one of the very few in the 1960's pioneering Timber Frame housing techniques ( 4x2's @600 centres) using innovative ' hanging scaffolding' - no accidents because a 'Sixth Sense' was created, an acute awareness walking on beams high up. Long story short, in the 1980'/90's ridiculous "Health & Safety" intervened almost mandating eg. Safety straps be worn extra scaffolding etc which actually were very dangerous!!! (Time consuming to erect, expensive unnecessary etc.) Then Pre-fabricated Timber Frame panels became popular - techniques changed, we continued using our own 'on-site' superior methods but could not compete. Result, downward spiral but, fortunately at a time when the "Boss" needed to retire - at 73 years!!!! Don't make them like that anymore! GREAT Presentations by the way!
Great video. Health and safety is important, and is everybody's responsibility to ensure personal safety; not only for themselves but for everyone else, on, and around the jobsite.
More 'WE', less 'ME'!
That said, people have to pass a theory and practical test to drive a car,
Everyone should have to pass a practical test before being allowed on a building site. Not just the cscs theory test.
100% agree
Great rant, in the past year alone I know of two guys who have lost fingers to a tablesaw, and one guy hit in the gut by a falling scaffolding pipe. Every time I have even a minor scratch or knock, I get mad and revisist the way I work, because it is always due to a: being in a hurry b: deploying inappropriate implenments c: being overextended in some way.
I have an idea regarding health and safety Roger but I don't know how to go about it. It goes like this;
How many bricklayers do you know with a bad back? Let me make that easier, how many do you know that don't have a bad back?
I started laying bricks forty years ago and I used to wonder why plasterers would have their muck and waist lever and I had to bend down 200 times a day.
Just recently a lot of bricklayers, especially price gangs have started using plasterers stands. It is more efficient and boy, does it save the back.
Now to my point, how can I get health and safety to make it mandatory that all muck board should be at a minimum of 700mm off of the ground?
Imagine if it was a requirement on every large site. Imagine the reductions in the number of bad backs, days off and cost to the NHS.
Where to I go with this?
To your MP obviously
Health and Safety Executive
Great idea.
Contact the HSE with a letter to say this. They will formally take up your point. Remember plaster & cement bags being much bigger than they are today. Same thing. Musculoskeletal problems which the HSE addressed. So get the finger out & write that letter.
@@willbee6785 Thanks Will. I still remember the 50kg 112lb bags.
You never know . When its your time sometimes fate is at hand. This reminds me of the driver delivering drywall to a high rise and a tape measure hit him just before he walked into the building and he was killed. He was not wearing a hardhat. The building did not have catch netting at the entrance . You know when that driver woke that morning the last thing on Earth he could foresee was getting killed by a tape measure .
That is such a sad tale. Even a nail or screw falling from a high building can cause a horrible injury
But he did know walking on a building site to wear a safety helmit, no brainer really, sorry about him, but you make your own problems sometime, or not...
Any media on that story pal??
He didn't escape with an inch of his life😜
If the tape was 200g after falling 121 meters (400 ft) then it would impact with 338 kg of force
while i normally have a chuckle at rogers rants, this one is really on the ball and shows just how serious a lack of h&s can be
the reality of needing x amount of deaths before things change is glaringly obvious to all
Unfortunately as far as H&S is concerned we humans are full of flaws. We also sometimes think we know better. One of the many hats I wear in my job is responsibility for H&S and I do try to find a balance that matches safety and common sense to protect the people around me. I know as I deal with human beings on a daily basis that H&S is very important. People just think they can take a short cut and they they think it won't happen to them. Let's be honest, sometimes it's pure laziness too that causes people to step on the wrong side of a safety issue.
I think you got this video 100% spot on Roger.
Thank you Roy, it is interesting to hear your perspective. We have demonised H&S, oddly we did the same with seat belts when they first became law. I remember how many stories there were about how bad seat belts are for us. Getting trapped in burning cars etc. Of course this is true but how many lives are saved and how many are lost?
Good rant, no criticism's. I started in construction in the 50's. Workers had cloth hats on the head. donkry jackets and welly boots. Had my first safety instruction at nightschool about 20/30 apprentices in the set. Look around the lecturer said look at your fellow students faces. Each one of you will by the time you retire will have had three serious accidents and of you present three of those accidents will be fatal. I have had my three accidents, nail through foot, scaffold collapse and foot through ceiling. Been present on site when there has been a fatality and I can tell you the general atmosphere is not condusive to working. Worked in Europe on a few projects in the 60's and H & S was non existant and when we joined the common market the UK basically ran it. H & S did improve but since the advent of management contracts, self employment, reduction in apprentiships, foreign workers, cowboys, standards have fallen. CSCS cards were an attempt io improve matters but they have developed into a joke. I can feel a rant coming on must go.
Don’t mind a bit of H&S however the CSCS card is a joke. Pass the test then do a separate induction on site which is tailored more for the site, pointing out the relevant information (muster points, fire escapes etc. )
I can understand the need to do a safety test every 5 years to keep up with current safety requirements, keeping everyone safe etc, but why do you also have to pay to renew your CSCS card as well. You don’t stop being a Bricklayer or whatever just because a date on a piece of plastic expires, if anything, you are a better tradesman as you have 5 years more experience. I’ve always thought this was a scam. Seems to me there’s always someone’s hand on your wallet
@@johnmcdonnell5175 when I first done the CSCS test, around 15 years ago it was a insult to a trades person. One question mentioned about going to the pub at lunch time with 4 answers. Really, do I need to pay and sit a test for that. Lucky I’ve not needed it for a few years now.
It goes out the window come the end of the job when they just want it done
@@Ultimate-roofing-square. I did the CSCS test last weekend, got 49 out of 50 . No "revision " required and yes it's still as inane now as it was when you did it 15 years ago . It's a scam .
@@johnmcdonnell5175 it is a scam . Money for old rope . No logical reason for it .
Long may it last - definitely! You said “quickly and efficiently”. Not sure about “efficiently” - must be defined to include h&s as a consideration, not just calculated from time and material costs. It’s not an easy calculation. As we discovered, one way to eliminate on-the-job accidents is to have everyone stay home. But that really cuts into productivity. Thanks for the video.
It’s the near misses that get you thinking about working more safely. If you find yourself thinking “ hell that was close or why did I do that!, that was stupid. I should of known better”, there’s a lesson to be learnt about health and safety
9:40 With regards wearing a hard hat. I remember watching a Nat Geo programme (probably about building a massive crane or oil rig or something like that) and the presenter asked the guy why he wasn't wearing a hard hat. The guy pointed up and said "That thing up there weighs 150 tons. A hard hat is not going to make any difference".
for the enire crane that is true. but what if a small bolt, or a nut drops from the crane? a small M10 nut from 50m could screw your day up.. :)
@@burzheru a brick, a bolt, a bar, a cup, invariably fall down not up..
Sometimes H&S does go a bit too far, I was on a site and the plumber had to wear a hard hat when getting under the kitchen sink to plumb it in, how stupid is that
When workers are being paid productivity bonuses they often deliberately ignore health and safety rules. In one factory I worked in the workers were exposing themselves to trichloroethylene fumes ... which are carcinogenic. When I insisted on following the correct procedure the other workers "turned against me". The management appeared to be "turning a blind eye" to what was going on. In other factories I worked in where the workers were being paid productivity bonuses there was a similar disregard for safety.
Most of the boys getting killed is travelling to and from worksite drive from Liverpool to Aberdeen and do a 12 hour shift or do a 12 hour shift and drive home,4 weeks away from home and you get a long weekend which is 6 hour travelling time one way this is the engineering agreement 12 weekends a year it is a joke and the unions agree to it bought and paid for they are GMB it is a joke.Saftey goes out the window when it interferes with production all the unsafe jobs get done at the weekend or on nights that’s a fact 50 years in the game I was
I agree with that and I think the unions have done very little for their members.
True. You know it. ✔
12 hour shifts should be stopped where lengthy driving is involved.
A lot of health and safety workplace rules need an overhaul where driving is concerned.
Some need freeing from shackles of overzealous policies.
Most sites now work 11&half hrs so as they don't have to pay Dinner break.Double time is now 180 minus the bonus the game is bell to bell not worth a carrot no more, traveling is paid one way GMB engineering
Electrician boss working on a job needed to look up work related stuff on his laptop. He tapped the keys with gloves on, but it wouldn't work. Took his glove off to type, site agent saw him, kicked him off and banned him from ever coming on site again. This is the truth about h&s.
I remember every accident that has occurred on sites on which I have worked; thankfully they were very few.
Well said!
Every word true.
Keep 'em coming
Albert.
.
In Scotland there was a fire in a block of flats, in Ayrshire, in 1992. Building Regs were changed to ban flammable external cladding. Experience and learning. Grenfell could never happen in Scotland.
Great to see your heat pumps video / article got featured online by the Daily Mail :-)
Yes and in the paper.
One last post :) interesting one discovered at work is the vibration issue. Already knew if using a jack hammer you should only use it for short periods (unlike in the 80s). But at work the grounds grew wear tags that detect or are timed for a set period of time using a vibration machine until you have to stop and take a break. If you don't it becomes a real bad health issue.
This lesson was 20 years to late I’m afraid
White finger?
Yes, gloves are recommended.
I never would have thought that the vibration of a jack hammer could be an issue, but it seems obvious now that you mention it. What health problems would someone develop from that?
@@orchdork775 Nerve damage from constant vibration.
Although I have spoken to people who used them for decades before current health and safety and they have no problems.
@@orchdork775 can cause nerve damage ,circulation problems,numbness in the hands/ fingers
Been on a number of jobs back in the 80's and early 90's where people had died on site. On one particular job we had two deaths. Many onsite accidents were caused by unsafe environments and not necessarily the individuals themselves. i.e. inadequate lighting, lack of barriers etc. Despite the overkill with PPE onsite, I prefer this than a dirty site with minimum safety requirements. Now we have one of the strictest onsite safety requirements in Europe, probably beaten by Finland. Countries that you would expect to have a good safety record like Germany and Switzerland are way down the list.
You also have rich developers cutting corners. Has something told to me today. A guy owns a big build near us with lots of flats in it and he owns several other properties in the area. He was on the phone (I could hear) trying to get work done on the cheap. One issue he'd been warned about was the fire door in one of his buildings that hasn't been shutting properly for ages. Now council are on to him but he wants a surveyor to come and check but wants someone who's "Not thourough". Wants to sell the building in a few years so doesn't want to spend out. How tight can you get. Must have at least a million in the bank but would rather risk his tenants lives to save himself a bit of money.
Loving these rants roger
I heard that to save time ferries often got underway while the boe doors were still open anyway, possibly due time constraints.
My whole career was either managing in the high hazard Chemical industry or laboratory environments. I had a reputation for being a stickler for Health and safety. Here's what I learned;
All significant H&S legislation has come from some sort of incident, usually fatal.
Risky behaviour always feels less serious to the individual doing it than the observer, the observer is usually right, so you have a responsibility to call out unsafe behaviour
Human error is ....errr human. We all make mistakes and we should always look to build safe operating into the job and a second pair of eyes to check critical stuff
You should always try to make the safest way to do the job the easiest way.
You only have one pair of eyes and ears. Look after them, it only takes a short lapse in attention to damage or lose them
When I used to walk around my laboratores in the UK I used to see labels and signs everywhere, wear your safety glasses, don't touch Hot, etc. When I visitied labs in Germany there were much fewer signs. I asked why and I go a strange look back then they said our poeople are trained and competent, it is drilled into them to work safely with their training, they don't need to have signs to remind them. (they also have a very compliant follow the rules culture). Indiviudals need to take personal responsibility for their own safety.
Everyone is responsible for safety and everyone has a right to go home to their loved ones un-injured.
Having been on numerous H and S courses during my working career , I must admit it would range from the obvious to the total impractical . Which at times I found rather infantile , they always had to start of with a video of some chap Working off a ladder mounted on a digger bucket or something just as stupid . Which only proves if your that daft you shouldn’t be on site . As you stated Roger we have to ultimately be responsible for our own welfare, in most situations . Particularly when lone working or on small sites . Obviously as you enter the industry side then yes you need good H/S provision that is strictly controlled . I’m long retired so no longer have to sit through versus courses such a asbestos awareness , confined spaces , scaffolding , and of course health and safety tutorials . Happy days I tell you what Rodger through if I had a pound for every time I hit my head while wearing a safety helmet I’d be very rich , what is it about putting a safety hat on makes us forget to allow for the extra hight ? Keep safe my friend. Best wishes and kind regards as always 😀👍👍👍
Great rant, never understood why health and safety on a house extension is different to a commercial site in, say, London. You mention coal miners, it was Arthur Scargill and the NUM who drove through the Health and Safety Act in 1974.
You don't need CSCS to do residential work.
Somebody can employ without you requiring qualifications - it's discretionary I suppose which is fair enough if you can do the job and are suitably insured.
I think those who can knock out high standard work should be put through a short course to prove their skills to get certification or build a portfolio to be assessed.
I also think it is bonkers how a company with 5 employees are not put through same rules as bigger companies.
Personally, I think everyone who works in a warehouse where forklifts etc are moving around should be subjected to a health and safety course as well as bending and lifting etc...
@@hannahjames3180 Look at the health and safety act 1974, the duties it creates don't distinguish between the size of the undertaking, or whether you are employed, self employed or a third party affected. So i ask again why do you get escorted off a commercial building site for having the wrong kind of grippy gloves, but roofers on a domestic build can walk up and down a roof with no safety gear or harnesses at all?
@@strummer6642 I agree. Accidents/ fatalities can happen anywhere.
Because the client (an ordinary resident) is not in business (Heath and Safety at Work does not apply.
But you (tradesperson) are at work, and so are responsible for your own h&s and that of any of your workers. But hundreds of micro sites, almost impossible for HSE to check.
The bigger sites have clients who are in business, so have H&S duties, and cascade these accordingly, with a lot of self-enforcement.
Good video.
we have to produce a health and safety file for site, my files are totally untouched apart from the sign here bit. if I left them to read them they would probably be on their phones watching a Roger rant on youtube!
Great talks Rodger
I would have thought that any risk assessment for working at height would include under PPE the requirement for chinstraps, for the scenario you mentioned and other potential loss of head protection.
Chinstraps are less than a couple of quid so cost is minimal.
A lot of companies in the 90's and early 2000's ended up having to come to us for risk management and assessment following RIDDOR accidents, court cases and HSE action that could have easily been foreseen and prevented.
Health and safety is a good thing for every worker that is true. But large companies make you complete endless training on a huge amount of subjects a lot of them pointless. However the sting in the tail is if you have a accident the first thing they do is wave relevant training in front of you and you as a individual are100% to blame as you have ticked to say you have completed. They tell their client our guy had training and it’s not our fault and probably sack you as well. This is how it is in reality, it is a liability exclusion ploy so the blame NEVER sticks to them!They really don’t care about your welfare at all.
Thank you Roger, I love your rants.... Any chance you could get some van stickers made "I Love Rogers Rants" Health & Safety is very important but I have got myself into some hot water in the past when you highlight a potential H&S issue to your Boss and then your made to feel like a trouble maker?
There must be a balance between the systems and documentation in place and the risk management thought process of the individual and group. When people rely solely on process and assume they are 100% safe all the time, that's when they become complacent and then accidents happen.
Very interesting chat, Rog.
Recently, I saw again one of those photos of about 8 or 10 workmen sat side by side on a steel beam way up on a Manhattan multi-storey building. No PPE, no harnesses, I guess no safety nets. I wonder what the mortality & injury rate was on those sites.
The Empire State Building had five deaths among its 3,400 workers during construction...
Worse was the World Trade Center construction in the 1970s, where about 60 construction workers met their end...
It was a staged photo, using real steel erectors, but it was a publicity stunt for the under construction Rockefeller Center (sic) in New York. I bet they were very, very careful though !
In the 1920's, they reckon 2 in 5 builders of US skyscrapers died or were seriously injured !
@@thetessellater9163 It was staged. We were shown it on CSCS course.
I absolutely love these rants
Love a 'Rogers rant'!
I'm a retired 64 year old and remember always using safety goggles, after a doctor had removed metal splinters from my eye.
I always wear ppe when I watch skill builder - its just common sense
Got my hi vis on. I'm surprised you can't see me...
I want to go to work in the morning, I want to come home in the evening to see my family. I've gone to work to earn a days wages, I've not gone to Las Vegas to gamble my life for...
Whether folk agree with me or not, my thoughts are:
Are you competent to do the job? If not, get additional training and don't do it until you are competent!
Do you have the right equipment to access and do the job? If you don't, then don't do the job!
Whilst you are doing the job, do other people know that you are doing it? What stops them changing things whilst you are doing it?
I've earned wages, I'm alive.
Might help someone.
Health and safety has its place, we do need it as a protection against corner-cutting and rogue companies not taking care of employees. But it has become a commercial industry and they want profits. So they have to keep inventing regulations and that means products. Updating old regulations means products - throwing away old things and buying new. I lived in France for many years and every year or two we had the 'SPANC' man come round with new regulations that meant work to be done. One year it was the 90 degree bends in the air vent had to be replaced with 2 x 45 degree bends. I asked him why all these changes all the time, and he said it keeps him in employment, and the gas can go round the bend better than it can with a 90 degree bend.
Air flow mechanics. Bends add up to flow resistance.
@@willbee6785 For sure, but for ventilating a septic tank I don't think it's that critical. We had a perfectly good certified working system, but they invent a new regulation and we had to put in another tank and pump out to a new percolation area in the adjacent field; 5k for no additional benefit. As he said, 'It keeps me employed'.
Every health and safety measure put into place, someone had to had died or injured. Sad.
Not a HSE person, but someone who has to deal with the requirements. This is a story that we were told during our regular training sessions. This was in industry not construction.
A lady production worker suffered an injury, bad enough that it had to be reported. HSE turned up investigated and decided to prosecute the employer. Hang on said the employer , we know this is a dangerous machine, here is our risk assessment, our method statement, our safe system of working., here is our training programme, here is the signed statement from the employee agreeing to comply with the safe system of working. Hmm said the HSE, and took the employee to court for failing to comply with the employers safety instructions, two weeks in hospital, a £2K fine, no compensation and dismissal for gross misconduct.
Safety is everyones responsibility.
I like it when on the news you see a man wearing full ppe kit standing in the middle of a field.
That is a politician, that is how they like to dress when they are not in the House of Commons
That's a big issue with H&S, and covering somebody else's arse. The key point here is that, whilst H&S is the responsibility of everyone, legal culpability slides uphill, and not down hill. It's not just a civilian thing, it is a thing in the military also. For example, the highest ranking person on the base (Commanding Officer) is legally responsible for the H&S on the base. Even if he has no expertise in the particular area (which is why things are delegated appropriately). On the fuel points for example, everybody knows not to smoke around fuel, it's so obvious. However, he still needs to make sure it's clearly marked, and everybody working there has read the rules. If somebody, for whatever reason decided to smoke and the fuel point exploded and killed somebody, and it turned out the signs had fallen down or were unsuitable, or the person wasn't briefed properly (whether it's obvious or not) then the responsibility for that incident would go straight to the commanding officer, not smokey Joe.
This means that somebody other than those working on the ground has a duty to ensure everyone is safe, which is a good thing. It can also mean that it's fairly easy for this person (or delegate) to implement a knee jerk (and possibly inefficient) policy or safety rule that's painful on the ground but easy on paper. It can be a proper pain in the arse, but that's why all these things should be reviewed regularly on site, and why industry should provide relevant feedback to the H&SE. Something like "Rule 112 to prevent accident A happening, in our experience makes the chances of accident B and C happening, here are some incident reports demonstrating this..".
Yes, it's paperwork that slows down the primary job, but injured/killed workers affect productivity in a serious way (not to mention the personal tragedy and trauma), and ultimately, generally I don't think people would be happy with workers in any industry working in unnecessarily dangerous conditions for the sake of expediency or profit. No matter how much we complain about roadworks or builds.
Better feedback from guys on the ground is key in my opinion. The guys upstairs make the broad rules triggered by a safety incident, and the guys on the ground should be refining it with real world experience.
I worked at the Health and Safety head quarters years ago. There was no labour on site so everyone put rubbish in the foyer. Rubbish built up and someone broke their ankle tripping over a piece of wood. Site got cleared within half an hour. The "clipboard men" turned up as if nothing happened. Before we had cameras on phones unfortunately but a joke at the time with no labour and cutting costs. I found doing more paperwork a pain trying to work, Rodger. Sat many a safety induction where the fella doing them then got £80 per man inducted.
Simon That is interesting and I have done a few induction courses myself over the years. I had no idea it was such a racket, I think I will get into it.
@@SkillBuilder certainly a racket. I would struggle to let some on site 😁 Probably a reason they wouldn't do a health and safety card to say you're capable?
Lot less dangerous than the 1980s
Valid points - the bathroom tiler untied the ladder and it let go on me yesterday as I had one foot on the landing - it slipped about 8ft back and to the side but I managed to cling on with 1 foot now above my head on the landing! Awkward but not shaking anymore. May be able to laugh about it in 12 months time.
The safety glasses they require you to wear on site are bad for your eyesite as they are magnified and in the small print in the packaging it states that they should only be worn for short periods of time!!
I know that my eyesite has deteriorated as I have had to wear them on so many sites in the last 10 years as it is compulsory to wear them on site or you will be made to leave site if you don't comply.
As long as you have your hi viz vest on, it's impossible for you to come to any harm.
Think maybe why scaffolders are having more accidents is because they're not as careful and/or less experienced on building sites, to put it lightly.
I've got a bad back from working with Zarges safety steps
Seen a lot of European builders just chucking stuff out the top window into the skip. Got the HSE local number for when they do it next door. I'm on a school run. Bad enough the skip driver not fixing one corner correctly when moving a skip and it going haywire.
The reason for lots of rules that overlap each other is that it reduces the chances of making enough mistakes for them to become an accident. One mistake probably won't cause an accident but many mistakes can and do, some with serious consequences. What is more important, your life or getting a job done a little faster? The only reason why we have all this legislation is because of accidents, it's there for a reason. If there weren't ever any accidents then we wouldn't have this legislation in the first place.
Of course. Seatbelts were brought in to reduce serious injury in vehicle collisions - it was very effective. Same for motorcycle helmets.
It's about responsibility and who you can pass it on to.
Hi skill builder, my question is about working with mould. Can a company get you to work with mould, ie mould washes etc without any training
Cpc for truck drivers all ready doing the job for 20+ years. Sometimes it's a money earner for some companies or government.
Watching industrial accidents in China on liveleak sure sharpens the mind 😬
All very true roger . And people moan about wearing a mask 😷 in shops 🙄🧱👍🏽
One of the main reasons I left the construction industry, overzealous H&S. When they banned ladder usage that was the final straw.
Step ladder or rung ladder?
@@willbee6785 On many sites both....Scaffold only...Things took forever to get done. Costs spiralled.
PPE has to fit, glasses only any good if the cover your eyes. Gloves to big are a risk if they get caught in tools or machines
Respirators if not positive pressure you have to be clean shaven to use them and fit tested to work.
All the above comes back personal responsibility….. if you lose an eye, finger or your life money does not make up for your loss!
not many guys who are missing arms that are unhappy about safety processes being in place
HEALTH and SAFETY ----- the bane of my life !
i own a scaffold and roofing company and if someone cannot walk that roof or those poles without a harness --- i am very sorry but they DO NOT get the job !
@ 3:34 Not only that ... They moaned at getting a FREE Car Wash...
No pleasing some people...
👍
Honestly though some of the risk assessments and method statements r getting ridiculous nowadays on the big sites in the city ie yellow card offence if seen not using the handrail when using the stairs two of them and ur off site madness treating grown men like children this is why there getting a bad rep
Health and safety is it's own enemy. A company decides it needs a health and safety person so a points a person, that person thinks about the task and realises that if there is an accident the blame could come back to him so he starts going over the top on safety, If you ask him can I do such and such the answer is invariable no because if he said yes the blame could come back in the event of an accident.
Don't "touch wood" Rog!
You might get a splinter :P
I got three at the weekend, bloody annoying.
I love a good argument. Nothing better than filing your pointy stick and poking a bear or two.
Why is there a swastika drawn on that red light 5:45 xD
omg I thought it was just a crack, but on a second viewing I think you're right, it's actually drawn on >
Then we have Building Control who I feel now appear pointless. Through no fault of their own, too much work and not enough time. I asked if they'd seen the steel beams installed and in place. "Did you see them in place? Were they sitting on bearing plates or just resting on the firewall block?" And got told "Well most of the time we don't seem beams, joists etc because they are covered up by the builder before we arrive on site". Well then how can you safely sign of a building then if you've not physically seen that beam? Surely I could just tell you, yeah I've put it on a bearing plate, knowing I haven't just to save me money before I move. Its odd. Building Control are essentially a part of H&S is building structures yet never see most of what they are signing off as good and safe.
Take photos. Then you have record of it for all concerned. No arguments. Cheap as chips. You know the details they will request, photo them. They’ll love you if you do. 👍
Contractors on private jobs have been doing this for about 15 years in parts of the U.K. This due to cut backs in Building Control personnel.
Photo it, email it, Sorted. Get the Building Control email address. Remember you can only send a max of up to 12mb of photos at a time via email. Take your photos on medium resolution, not high. You should be able to send about 3 photos each email.
Compose you first email & save it as a template for further & future use.
You’ll get used to it. 👍
@@willbee6785 All well and good but when you have a neighbour doing their own work and ignoring all that, doesn't help.
Steel toes! I find it's hard to have a serious discussion about these on site, maybe youtube comments is an even worse place for it.
My opinion is steel toes can't prevent any life-changing injuries. All they can do is prevent minor injuries that might take you off work for a day or two. Yet every site seems to make them compulsary, despite the fact that they have an impact on your long term posture, foot health etc.
Basically in my opinion they have an impact on 99% of people's long term health, in order to avoid affecting 0.00000001% of people's safety. But just because it's an easy thing to tell people to do you end up with it being compulsory on every site.
I'll chuck some on if I'm digging trenches or something because it makes sense. But climbing a ladder in them just reduces your feel of the ladder underneath you, and if you're walking lots of miles in them every day then they will have a negative impact on your health.
Until H&S people start to do proper analysis of their sites and specifying exactly what is needed for that specific site then nobody will take it seriously
Except they can prevent life-changing injuries. Find someone who has lost a big toe and ask them how easy it is to walk now. The biggest problem with H&S (which has massively reduced deaths and injuries in construction) is risk assessments. The problem is they make no attempt to quantify a risk just suggest a risk exists so we do something else. However the something else also has risks because everything has risks. If you are not careful you end up doing something different that is actually more risky. So can't use a ladder to fix a single loose roof tile, lets put up scaffolding which of course also has risks which may actually be greater than the risk of using the ladder for that quick single loose tile if done properly.
I rarely work without steel toes. They are often quite handy anyway (rest materials on your foot, rather than the floor, built in hammer/persuasion tool etc!).
I’m a fan of steel toe trainers, more comfortable for lighter work. I also find if you spend too much time in boots your ankles get weaker.
That said, there’s a lot of work in this sector that doesn’t strictly need them, like painters/decorators - where arguably shoe grip is far more important.
Old steel toe caps saved my toes in the past. It depends on work conditions & jobs your doing.
It's obviously required but it's gone too far. I started my apprenticeship in 1993 at a steelworks, that place couldn't go ten years without a fataliy! It had to change.
Mate i literally got into trouble for using a portable PAT tested ayr fyrer in a kitchen in a closed college to heat uo my lunch and got told it was far to dangerous and i asked to use a microwave and i got told the staff wouldnt be happy with a "dirty contractor" using there stuff 😂😂
I particularity enjoyed watching people who couldn't speak English passing all the H&S tests in the site tea room on the first morning they arrived.
Health and safety act 1974 section 7: - General duties of employees at work.
It shall be the duty of every employee while at work-
(a)to take reasonable care for the health and safety of himself and of other persons who may be affected by his acts or omissions at work
So why is it that employers are so often held accountable for the stupidity and carelessness of their employees?
Because the bigger responsibility is that of the employer (section 2). Only if they can show they did everything 'so far as reasonably practicable' will the focus switch to employees. Or sometimes if they were just a complete numpty.
But even then, the employer took them on!
1:21 that looked like such a serious injury were they life changing? Looked really bad.
Yes we decided to steer clear of the nasty pictures and footage showing blood and guts.
@@SkillBuilder I've got a great video of a man being pulled through a big lathe I show it to people who don't think they would do much.
They were uranium fuel rods left blocking a fire exit. Yes it was a terrible accident. They now stack the rods neatly in the designated part of the corridor
As they say safety rules are written in blood
Although I'm sure we're all glad H&S never got to Fred Dibner.
True
I have been in construction HSE for over 20 years. The regulator almost never comes to site without notice. Since COVID they are on site every other day. The Govt. couldnt give a rats ass about workplace safety.
/rant - keep it up !